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Financial surveillance

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and MIT and the if you the welcome everybody to our next talk financial surveillance exposing the global banking watch list I think everybody in this room would agree that massive surveillance is a very bad idea and that of course also goes for financial surveillance and our next to speakers yes mean class and Tom will I to investigative journalists who have uncovered how this system of financial surveillance words and I'm pretty sure that you are just as excited as need to find out what they have found out so please give them a warm round of applause fj
you the on you people I think they have work you well you know there's always a little thing
that doesn't work whatever is this of before the talk we just had before there was a lifetime and was very well planned still something went wrong I think everybody in the audience had a lot of empathy because nobody wants to be in that position but I think we just fix the problem is that fixed is about to be 6 I I would try that yes that we got the husband of because I have so it's nice
to see also have that so many people came from my 1 introduce to you and this is tom use adapters analysts working on investigations at the time the times of London and he specializes in a set of techniques such as data mining which can review of wrongdoing and the 2 stories that benefit the public and this is just mean she's in investigative journalist they're working in Hamburg for panorama at the broadcaster and the which is part of the LTE network and she focuses on politics the Digital Economy and surveillance and against tell you tonight
about the findings of an investigation we conducted this year as part of an international collaboration and our colleagues so we're Evelyn's define ya love and court and get me now and to get together we investigated the database and published in June this year our studies in the UK Germany and the US Netherlands Belgium and Italy so what was our story we investigated that innocent people around the world have been wrong he added to a watch list of terrorists and criminals this watch list of high risk people and organization as compiled by Thomson Reuters a British firm and sold to almost all the world's major banks as well as police forces intelligence agencies and non-government organizations it's called world check and that he gave us the opportunity to review the entire database for the 1st time
so what exactly is well check well if you want to open a bank account we know that the bank might check your credit rating to see if you are a reliable borrower the how does the bank know if you're a criminal or a terrorist or potential money launderer for 1 of the checks that most banks will do is run your name against the world check watchlist and they might look in here if your bank finds your name on the list they might refuse to application or they might subject your financial transactions to extra scrutiny or if you're an existing customer they might even close your account so Thomson
Reuters says about that list that it is to find hidden risk this is off heightened risk people and organizations such as such as terrorist fraudsters or senior public officials who might try to use the account and the crop fonts so they want to be kind and in early warning system for a hidden risk
and banks I even forced to use these kinds of this by regulation and they have to take steps to comply with sensed sanctions and international and domestic law against money laundering and terror financing and of course we all want less terrorism and of course you want less money laundering that's clear and to put it in the world checks words it's to help identify relationships or risk by providing highly structured intelligence profiles and heightening was individuals and entities globally but since 9 11 governments have to put more and more pressure on banks to identify terrorists and money launderers among their customers so Thomson Reuters advertise and even well check with warnings about recent fines and settlements against banks for violating sanctions and maybe you know the uh this 1 story ages BC had a historic 1 . 9 billion dollar payment to US authorities to settle their money laundering allegation in 2012 and that's 1 of the most famous example that the banks of course feel a much so if you look for information how the information is collected Thomson Reuters sass it compiles a list using hundreds of thousands of reputable sources in the public domain are you gotta remember that slide and especially the word root putable sources because we come back to that a little bit later so how they
collect this information well some which is researchers look into public sources ranging from EU sanction list to local newspapers in order to find names to add to the database in total Thomson Reuters says that will check contains profiles on over 2 million entities and it's adding 20 thousand profiles among and updating 40 thousand so the list is growing all the time now this is a job but for
for a position as a Wilczek researcher in Washington DC and it states that among the many
responsibilities you need to write more than 220 highly structured and sourced biographical intelligence profiles every month I think is really nice of and be stopped from about the workload and that's about 1 hour per profile if you're working full time so must be quite challenging if you are the Assistant research associates to maintain accuracy and quality under that kind of workload the so
not many people had heard of this list onto recently but it's 1 of the biggest of its kind according to Wilczek datasheet the service is used by over 300 intelligence and government agencies 9 out of world tops 10 in law firms and 49 of the world's 50 largest banks so overall more than 6 thousand customers from 100 70 countries and there are reportedly on the customer list so the content of the list the secret because Thomson Reuters doesn't tell people when it adds them to the list and banks of forbidden R from passing on the information access is only granted after vetting process so the user has to sign a non-disclosure agreement and also using the database is quite expensive years access can cost up to 1 million euro
so in recent years have been some excellent investigations by other journalists they've highlights it's impossible issues with well check so the BBC had been investigating why HSBC closed the accounts of Finsbury Park mosque in London without any explanation and the BBC researchers has found that the most had been listed in well check in the terrorism category so that may have been part of banks decision the
and Vice news was also able to view some of the entries in check for a client of Thomson Reuters and they discovered more examples of questionable entries so we knew that there was something potentially going on with this database but mostly remains confidential and nobody had been able to view the entire state space in order find out whether there were wider issues with the system but then there
was a leak in summer
2016 this security researcher Chris victory was doing what he very much like do you was scanning the Internet for college to be instances exposed to the world without any user name or password y you can imagine what comes next have so you would contact the owners to encourage them to secure the data that he found something really interesting and that was a copy of the Wolchik database from 2014 and
with him from finding the question came up and said he has I have a terrorism blacklist I have a copy should it be shared Chris posted on Redditch are to saying that he was facing a dilemma about whether to release the entire database or not because on the 1 hand the database was apparently compiled from public sources so what's the problem with the publishing publishing public sources and the world check is a system that is used to make decisions about people's lives in secret so maybe transparency would be in the interest but on the other hand it contained personal data relating to millions of people who might suffer harm if the information was disclosed sold since it is not so easy to ask the 2 million people are if he's allowed to publish it he was asking himself so what not to do and thanks to the previous work of the BBC and vise we s analysts had reason to believe it would be in the public interest to review this data so we made come major contact with Chris and before viewing the lead data we considered of course the ethical legal and our security implications so do we have a chance to fully reveal how system works for the 1st time and this is what folic like yeah
so we can unify we agreed with Chris that we would use the data to responsible journalism but not to publish the data itself so we can't show you full database in this presentation and when we receive the data said it was a full gigabyte case on line delimited file with no documentation so the 1st thing I had to use was my surpassed in Python uh but but it's fast in this Jason some file into CSV file and then we have 4 gigabytes CSV file and other Tibetans PostgreSQL in order that we could do some
analysis of the content of the state space so this is an abridged version of the field list showing you the really the key pieces of data on each of these profiles so we've gone we've gone entity types so that was is a person or an organization and the people there was no 1st names surnames aliases position uh would be if you're politician this would say what your position is in the government uh categories were really interesting because these might be that your um a politician as mentioned or might be that you're the terrorism category or the financial crime category the what date of birth and the countries and nationalities of CEO is really important so that banks can identify uh customers correctly and information text was uh possibly most interesting part of the data and then we had various links to other programs profiles at the source URL which turned out to be really crucial and the dates on which the a records been created and updated so you said you had some of these fields self explanatory um but what we really need to see um what this state-space looked like to the end user to understand how this information would be interpreted and so like any good invested journalists that we've constant and Google and after a bit of
experimentation we discovered the magic but fetching folk right you are strictly prohibited from disclosing all copying the content of the surface thank
you and sure enough we find them examples of profiles from well check which people may or may not realize that on the internet and accessible through Google some of these are from the Panama papers so the person who put that 1 there and knew what they were doing and the 1st example in this result is interesting no because we have the word internet in URL we should perhaps tell this company that the Internet is on Internet I say they funnel by themselves and they don't the time
so this example and is actually from that the in Brazil uh which published and will check profile that they obtained as part of an investigation into this was really we could see exactly what the data looks like to the end user and this profile uh belongs to a tort otoconia who was the former leader of the Brazilian Chamber of Deputies and as as it was published by the magazine so we can see here the category that he's been assigned in this case is a political individual uh and he's a pet that stands for politically exposed persons and this is a term in anti-money laundering legislation that means this person is in senior public officers and they are potentially in a position to you take bribes and the cropped answer doesn't mean necessarily they've done anything wrong to but the money laundering rules say that banks have to scrutinize these people very carefully so if you are a politician you might be called up by a bank and they would say that we need to interview you about your sources of income in order to establish what the legitimate level of income is if you exceed that level you'll be reported to the authorities and diffusion of that also includes the immediate family uh of public officials and then we will see that on the next slide so where would we scroll down
after the year agent-based birth we've got these links to other profiles so these are uh the Brazilian politicians immediate family members who have their own profiles and and then further down and we've got reports so in this case uh this position was actually accused of doing something wrong it wasn't just that they're the politically exposed persons this this report an allegation of corruption that the and this this profile was published and it turned out that he was convicted of corruption so this is an example of a profile of somebody who turned out to be guilty so now that we understood what a profile look like we started to analyze the scope of the database so
this table shows for each country how many people were profiled in world checked as it stood in 2014 which was the date of the copy of the database that Krispy Kreme found online so we showing here for each country with at least 5 thousand entries the number of non pet so that could be people in the terrorism or the crime category or it could be very so the things that the number of pet so we would expect them to be senior public officials but it's interesting that there are a lot of countries where there are tens of thousands of pets and so that suggests that perhaps the cost the net quite wide there and we're also giving numbers of relatives of pets then so we spend a little time browsing the data by our countries and querying the database to understand the types of the different types of people have been included and then everyone in all collaboration started finding people who really don't belong on the list and we started to ask how that these innocent people end up on this watch list the so where for example really
surprised to find Greenpeace 16 Greenpeace activist on the list who were arrested for peacefully protesting the star wars missile defense program in 2001 and they were listed under the general category of crime and then there was a bit weird because they did plead guilty to a criminal trespass but never served time for this minor charge but 12 years later and they would be still on that list so
this is another example this time from the UK from a town called Chelmsford's in the south of England and this woman is Jackie on that and said he was listed in the politically exposed persons category along with a record of all her civic activities so here she is at work volunteering for 1 organization called harvest for the homeless is a local campaign in Chelmsford that was collecting food for people in need that Jackie or not is not a senior public official the as you might expect a politically exposed person to be in fact her only connection to power seem to be that her husband Alan had been the mayor of Chelmsford which is a ceremonial position but and this is
not a different town in the south of england this is at least 3 Kingston upon Thames this is a view of the town hall so very genteel this is 1 of Kingston's
local politicians you're going you can often you can see the letters MBE Member of the British Empire after his name he was given an order by the queen for his services to local government and community relations in the Kingston upon Thames among his activities he was peace campaigner he campaigned for peace in flanker and that led to him being this well check and being link to allegedly
the Tamil Tiger terrorist organizations which is extremely serious and very obsessing claim that have made about you that not least Europe's campaigner and the Wilczek database gave the source that for this allegation as Franken government websites but which in 2 thousand and uh 7 at the height of the Civil War and flanker has said these guys in London organizing peace protests about flanker there'll Tamil Tiger terrorists and that allegation had made its way into the well check database and um missed you Donovan said that he was very hot by these allegations and that is it this this is completely untrue and completely without any other basis in fact
so remember when we said he should remember this slide because of the beautiful words reputable sources and if you read a little bit further Thomson Reuters says researchers are bound to comply with strict research criteria and must remain objective at all times while that seems that the research team was but flexible and these rules the reason why innocent people showed up on the list were very often the problem of these we putable sources and handing them so now we would like to show you some of the sources and we put together a little ranking for you you might all know that
1 and yet Wikipedia we thought we give number 5 to Wikipedian into thousands of profiles were checked used uh uses Wikipedia as a source while here you still might think OK it's only for general information so maybe it's fine but what about the next 1 well a number 4 we
have conspiracy this 1 is called fiber cloth . net and it was all the educational resources you might need 1 alternative accounts of the 911 attacks Wilczek searches also cited it in a profile of a British businessman which cost was used by the banks the and number 3 also
really interesting we found state-run sites or state-run propaganda you must say also used that sources for example China Davies it's the biggest newspaper in China and state owned and even though it's not an official organ of the Chinese Communist Party I it's considered to be a kwocie party newspaper so because of this ah commentary that you see on the right side I saying that there's a terrorist group there t beaten Youth Congress to prominent IDS brown organization is listed as a terrorist group on well check and what we found a pretty enough to say that the research team used this article as the only source for this profile recording of the Chinese government's accusations so the number 2 we have a
website that unfortunately you might have heard of hundreds of listings referenced reports on bright spot and so the time by but was selectively reporting almost a called black crime and there's a whole tag page for what they called black crime and so the hundreds of listings referred to reports than being carried on bright pop the number 1 in our number
1 we have Stormfront which if you haven't heard of it it's a form for white supremacists was founded in 1995 by former Ku Klux Klan member and there were several listings that refer the storm front uh among them listings for the 2 black British people uh containing links to as of discussion threads on the form so the problem really
is that will check uses all the sources that they can find which is fine but it seems that they don't differ between a new side the propaganda side extremis sides whatever side and all the sources and information and that they collect but they don't waded or rated or assess the information so for some of the state attorney accuses a person or a fair competitor blackened somebody in the media report the information gets into those Wilczek database without any filtering and there's no final verification of this or any accusations so you will
check found an interesting way to deal with this problem of unreliable sources so potentially unreliable sources in the profiles they've added the this general legal notice and here they mention that everyone who views the state-space should carry out independent checks to verify the information and they later later added a further disclaimer saying if this profile contains negative allegations it should be assumed that such allegations are tonight so this is an interesting legal concepts that you can carry these extremely damaging accusations that people are linked to terrorist groups uh but of course you can tell your customers to assume that the allegations are tonight and check the information about themselves and we found many people on the list that had encountered difficulties with the banks and that raises the question of whether some banks uh and uses of the list but were able to heed this warning and launched their own investigations after seeing at 1st claims in well checked and in fact uh somebody I spoke to use Paul my research who works for Bank and said that they're under such pressure that if they found at 1st listing and well check it would be extremely difficult for them and to have prove and you're given the time that was available so this is 1 1 issue sound besides the problems with the sources and the lack of verification of information there is another reason why innocent people have ended up in this watchlist our research showed that the database carries entries for people who are merely accused or investigated over possible crimes without being charged or convicted reports of minor convictions to kept on file for years after the event as we saw with Greenpeace and sometimes people have been cleared of the charges and but their entries have been updated to reflect the information so innocent people just kept being guilty in the world of databases for example like him so
please meet the terrorist and a Hoiem but he's that's what's on well suggested for a couple of years and maybe some of you know him is a very well-known sociologist and later he was a short time in German it's uh Bausch . 6 and maybe an initial something like housing secretary in the billing state government and he was targeted by the federal prosecutor's office 10 years ago this suspicion was membership in a terrorist group so he was arrested at the end of July 2007 and detained for 3 weeks so harm had obviously been investigated because he had been critical of the displacement of poor people in cities and he wrote it in a very similar way or so similar words um a left-wing extremist group active at that time and but in the end the suspicion that she could be a member himself proved totally unfounded and in 2 thousand 10 all of prostitutes procedures against homeward discontinued so he was even compensated for his imprisonment so in the end for the State and Justice Holmes was innocent but
I went home wanted to become a customer at Norris bank 2 years later in 2012 the incident refused to open this bank account and that even without any explanation and there was and when the harm still did not know that he was on the watch list of will check when we told
them and we talked to him he said I have a bad feeling when my life is recorded there without me being aware of it or having any influence on it so even years later such an entry can permanently make life significantly more difficult but apparently they're institutions that rely on what check or similar databases when we talk to the Norris bank they said that the name this training that's what it's called was an essential part of fulfilling the leader requirements for combating financial cramming out Kroon criminality it's about preventing money laundering they said and the due diligence check would use many different databases this data sources and I found a little bit funny you have that they wouldn't talk about at all about the case from Mr. Stockholm and they said they cannot give any information because of data protection reasons the so we
saw in the marketing brochure that Thomson Reuters state of 49 of 50 of the world's biggest banks use well check so we had a pretty strong idea that most of the big name banks that would be using it but here from my UK audience I wanted to confirm that the high street names that uh my readers will be familiar with uh had used this database so had information that the cooperative bank among several other big names had used well check and sales and to confirm that that was the case and this is what I said I can confirm that the cooperative bank doesn't use and has not used well check well this is an interesting response I went back to Google and I
did a site search on Linked In for well check and the Cooperative Bank and this is what I
found this is michael he is very low he says is a high risk case analysts at the Cooperative Bank and uh his
previous position in 2015 he was an anti-money laundering and elicited and so this gives a description of his responsibilities and at the bottom there you can see that I included exiting customers when necessary if they were found outside the bank's risk appetite which is a euphemism for he can close your account if your too risky this is quite uh uh obviously a considerable responsibility and then further down in the job description the he says that he used systems including well check to make these uh to make these decisions so I went back to the Cooperative Bank
press spokesperson and tandem attachment see what they have to say about this and reply gain I can confirm that we do not use will
check and any access to that displays the bank had was the excess of 5 years ago so they admitted that they had to use database have thought there that are saying that they don't use anymore and I think this is uh an indication of exactly how much secrecy there is uh on the part of the banks and their resistance to any kind of accountability another question by journalist from a national newspaper uh they give completely inaccurate information about whether they had used the system and and only admitted it when they were confronted with evidence to the contrary and you have if you're cooperative bank customer you really ought to have a right to know at what is being done with your data and how decisions about your being made this is all enshrined and data section law and said this is this seems to be a lot with all those principles so
we do all of the findings from the different countries to Thomson Reuters um and they didn't really come back to a phone any of the specific cases but they gave a statement uh 1 of things they said was that individuals can contact us if they believe any of the information held is inaccurate and we would urge them to do so yeah and this is quite tricky if your bank is not allowed to tell you why your account has been closed uh the bank is not certainly not allowed show you a listing will check that we have uh admit that um you can submit a subject access requests to Thomson Reuters if you have a hunch that you might be on the list and then you can find out and then obviously you could challenge your information but but whether that would dentist is another question and something which is that they provide identifying information such as date of birth and this will be verified with reputable and official sources the on the on some of the unreliable sources they said if content pages it is only as a supporting source for that secondary information and is clearly identified as such but we don't know if they've made improvements to the database and so it may be that things are different from the snapshot we so that's what they said on and then they said in conclusion it's important to point out that its inclusion in world checked does not imply guilt of any crime and every record states if this profile contains negative allegations it should be assumed that such allegations of the knowledge the accuracy of the information found in the underlying media sources should be verified with the profile subjects before any action is taken and 1 for an input they made is that they're all competing databases to Wilczek so LexisNexis handout Jones also produce watch list and we don't know they're similar problems with those lists so why is this happening to you know we mentioned that banks are under huge pressure from government at to weed out terrorists and money launderers uh among their customer bases and what what's the environment in which this has come about and we don't have a full answer to this question and by you want show you 1 e-mail and it gives a sense of the atmosphere in the paranoia and that has led to the the current regime so this e-mail arise from a man who says he's the Wilczek's general counsel the sand in 2002 to a US Treasury consultation and and so this is a public document and the and then he declares his interest ceases he works for a company that sells a product to help financial institutions conduct money laundering checks and obviously this is short time after 9 11 and he argues under the Patriot Act financial institutions must be proactive about tackling money laundering he exerts
considerable moral pressure even going so fast it's just the banks were helping the terrorists by the lack of action so he writes the US is in a war on terror and the front lines of the war or at the doorsteps of every US financial institutions US final still financial institutions are inadvertently aiding and abetting domestic terror against American citizens so this is just 1 company's viewpoint I'm sure the US Treasury took in lots of different viewpoints about when they forming this legislation by thing this gives a nice sense of the kinds of arguments that were being made the and if you want more on the wider context of of this that is really good book could speculative security happen market to girder uh which goes into this small detail so can the
system be improved that will repair it uh again we don't give an answer to this question but with some thoughts of occurred to us uh there could be that the selection of sources used to compile this kind of list and perhaps you would narrow it down a bit more to the official sanctions lists and uh people who are actually convicted of crimes those kinds of categories of sources uh maybe news reports in reputable outlets uh perhaps news reports confirmed by more than 1 outlet that kind of thing the you could also indicate the quality of the information so if you're going to insist on uh republishing the fact that this ranking government has accused a person of terrorism maybe you would flag up that flanking government uh certainly at that time did not have a good uh record reliability on on who was accusing of being terrorists the you could also give rights of reply to people so you on your credit history and you can go to a credit reference agency see was said about you and reply to the uh criticisms of you the made there that they could think about doing that the there is a initiative to make an open-source sanctions watchlist uh but sanctions told and which of course brings lots of advantages and everyone can see was that problem on the list and nothing is also the wider question of whether we actually want banks have this responsibility of predicting and foreseeing crime among their customers that do we want the private sector to do their job or do we want that responsibility to be squarely on the judicial system uh on the criminal justice system we
so without going along uh here I have a single your questions and these are contact the cells so thank you very much for your attention the so that thank you very much for this super interesting talk have been news for all of you we have about 20 minutes time for Q and a so please pile up at the microphones if you have any questions of which I am sure there are many and we are going to start with 1 question from the internet considering the databases still online hasn't undergone changes to conform to the GDP are the but it we have a sorry alright things that started with another question from microphone number 1 you of he was the of the world the company and was acquired by Johnson more all work on the part of the world not going to something like that and this is the point that you guys job title is that if you don't use that lead the way he does have a low degree these guys have his job title will check in 2002 was not general counsel but head of business development at the end of the system a statement isn't thanks and Questions from microphone number 3 from the so long to it by media reports to works is my hero working me on the list now the moment where he might right to question is where do they get the news from because essentially that those 224 the does he get to pick the names yet so if you if you put a request to allow what section name when not to be on the list afterwards so you could do it if you want to do and this is how it works the research team got through the internet and looks for articles and picks out names and puts them OK to reach the people who don't know almost all them essentially 2 big names because what is that what's happening right in the heart people and the wrong sort Stormfront from told in do you really this is always use it adenoids they do it like that somehow they came up with the source yes with various microphone and they had followed along and you've made a few people that were on their wrongfully but what percentage are actually run through all the most profound that you viewed I we don't have a percentage I mean we think it's a minority that there are lots of people who did do bad things and they go on the list but of course undermines the credibility of the entire state space when they're up you know many many examples that we're able to find and you know without even tho it's not likely rattle 2 million profiles so who knows that the Yale is very good question I think it's an excellent question that I have taken at the beginning you all those 2 . 0 million profiles and all right Mike to peace the thank you for your work on this and really important subject of myself went up on that list in the that the 2 years because of of we how essential banking is in the modern world to get paid to have to pay your bills to do anything in what options that people who have had their mental organizations like principal at the heart of X closed in on itself especially with the listing so ubiquitous amongst all of the major banks well on this report most went to court and they the Thomson-Reuters successfully and after about something which has changed listing and admitted that happened wrong to listen to terrorism category uh obviously that's a non option is available to everybody and I think the 1st step is to request your data and from Thomson Reuters see exactly what's being said about you and turn it into a form that is it's it's very difficult but for example is a whole i he didn't get the account at large bank but he ended up in another bank that didn't use will check and that was the the Nash Parkinson's have a really good thing alright I think it's the in the next turn again to ask the question would you agree that the purpose of such a list is to protect not only the bags from customers but also the public from terrorism mob about businesses that could harm and of yes it isn't that a sacrificing a few for the benefit of many and I think you shouldn't sacrifice if you for the many because it would be so easy to make it better we saw that these sources were so obviously weird and wrong and and so I think it would be necessary if they would check uh the the list a lot better 91 1 peace I'm afraid of presentation and did you find any evidence of viruses and such organizations on from disclosing information about their customers words and we don't think we still inside inside those look like the stick to the public school students the various entities that have a three-letter acronyms next to them like the CIA and various things but I think in all of those cases it turned out that the CIA or whoever has said something publicly about a person so it didn't seem that there was any covert cooperation between in either direction madam of radius that you were your work obviously it's a certainly see such places storefront embrace our being wall so the sources of in your work did you find out how much of the year of the data was supported by the use of so-called reputable sources these extremist sites as the category me that it is dependent on the size of the bright always hundreds of entries and they were from focused around particular country region of the US is another country which suggested source that potentially had been uh researcher who had a particular fondness for bright spot who said decided to use that as a source of there seem to be a lot of time variation if between different countries and in the mix of sources of news my can afford
this kind based on the work of cryptocurrencies stuff so obviously have a longstanding interest in financial privacy and openness and this is really interesting although terribly written book would America amended but was written by someone who was a US Treasury grafted kind of and policy around sanctions and 1 of the things he says in the book was immediately after 9 11 they were willing to put people on the sanctions list and the block you from the entire international financial system at the EPA century levels of the of the prison confident that you were somehow related to terrorism and they would just that kick you out so I was wondering if that because I know a lot of the interest in uh preventing mass surveillance is all about making a more expensive so as to force people to target more specifically I was wondering if you have any thoughts on kind of what direction people should be thinking about going on in terms of forcing more targeting of these kinds of preventing people from international financial access sort of allowing it to be so broad and in a controlled by so few the and use that insularity so but but this but yeah and I I think that we should ask our government for accountability on this kind of surveillance as we would with any communications valence or any other kind of violence and I think we're only you know we've only just looked of 1 part of the system we've looked at this 1 watchlist but this is part of a whole range of stuff that's going on so I think that you know we should continue to look at financial surveillance alongside other forms of violence all right make them into pieces we had so I have a question concerning the Financial Action Task Force which is an intergovernmental organization compromising both European Union countries and TTC have you confront them with the work that in the accident uh we we haven't been sent directly and the 1 of really useful things that we picked up from the Financial Action Task Force is that definition of politically exposed persons uh talks about senior public officials and this database seems go way further than that uh so that seems to be an interesting discussion going on and on about where the limits of this kind of surveillance should be drawn and you know you might take the view that uh heads of state is not really any problem with surveilling their financial activity but when you start to cast the net wider uh than this kind of thing seems to have more worrying implications In addition questions fire away it looks likes Thomson-Reuters by excessive you can't disclose the information you find in our system because we have the cover are tolerant so are there any jurisdictions that have a law that would require banks to report what information was used to the demand that someone was considered a risk no there is no law that the banks has to say it but as Tom mentioned before and the people that think that they're in a list they can confront Wilczek us and I think in some jurisdictions there are exemptions from the subject access request and right but for anti-money laundering purposes and I'm not sure exactly how we place but that may be part of the reason why banks think that they can just deny people any no answers to why these decisions have been made Mike number 1 piece the safe for the x and talk of dimensions that legal relations require that banks use some kind of vectors you know what we do here is is regulated by so many quality control doesn't seem to be among them could yield the owners have to raise a hand you might quality control seems not to be part of it that 1 so the regulation is for example the item of English with those lock fights for the customer and you have to make sure that the customer is not a criminal or a terrorist or and they're mn many regulations asking for it for example there are the our money laundering law from starting 91 and then it got new new er done by in 2001 2 thousand 5 so that's mainly the part that we focus on because it's the part that support for the Wilczek database alright my 3 thanks for the talk of you would find a lot of people on the list from fully and and and q is if you involve them that they are on the list of you informed to the company that that these people this and they shouldn't be there and especially I and I'm interested in what happened to the Greenpeace activists you mention of a cat you any information is there are still on the loose not and all the cases that we showed to you all the ones we I talked to weaken further them and we ask them if we can publish their case and all of them out when to well check and asked if they are on the list and ask also for a um and ask also for a in n to delete them on the list and I think in almost all the cases that people actually were deleted on the list I yeah I think and and some of them at least and really you know as as just means that we're very careful only to publish people's names if they had given their consent for us to do that and response I got from Jackie on who is the woman in pink to use all the presentations was that last time she has any at 1st attention from the authorities was when she went on holiday in the eighties to the Eastern bloc and she goes for a phone call from the British Home Office of British Foreign Office rather say what are you doing going over there and this is what came to her mind when we told her about her listing and well check things like and the 4 P's thanks the Legion profile you show there were a few other systems that the Dow Jones in 1 other do they suck as badly as world track well we did check then there was no leak yet but if there will be maybe we can tell you next year I have said uh I think you can go on like that
side I think you and I was wondering because you said that like is that for some the the sources were really terribly wrong weird and I was wondering if we assume that they're are not roman we're but that they're that they're working perfectly well and that a lot of these questions like the other 2 of these questions was it's working perfectly well and would be the purpose the people working perfectly well formed and who especially started here and in the end and is there any possibility of actions in in that scenario in this possible world in which this was working perfectly well evidence that the question right the think maybe there are 2 different answers for the politically exposed persons and for the people accused of terrorism and so on I think politically exposed persons to me you can make quite a strong case that senior public officials should be subject to financial surveillance you know if you are a prime minister and suddenly you have millions of pounds going through your bank account maybe that's a legitimate so in this understanding I was I was not asking them what are the perfect normative conditions under which is what and I was asking given that the this state of things as it is now was the perfect way of working you would be perfect for like a list with the real beneficiary office wrong we're way of working at my question I well I don't think it benefits public and because I don't think this is a real serious way of stopping terrorism and I'm not even sure that it's a real serious way of stopping political corruption and because actually we uh looking see some of the cases that came out through the Panama papers and similar things and which sometimes that banks had looked at at a person's well check listing seen that they're in the watch list but sets this is actually a very lucrative clients so we're going to keep banking them and so there are 2 sides to it and that I think that's very important questions internet it's your turn again the tones considering the proprietor of the newspaper report model was there any kind of pressure as to what you published about them about this logic ls across the Internet is not and no I have found that no 1 case and 2 questions and the 1st is about the issues that I can write it as no established mechanism of process uh as well as it's known the flooding lesion of datasets and in that database so that they claim a hole in the Solomons some of records that there that there is some procedure
for reading but not well known for the lesion that it's obviously the and the 2nd is about asking them what they have in their parts of it is that the record company for example could I just ask them and they should also be and of them some conditions are part of the course for assignment was maybe guessing will hold very active some 15 thousand people what I thought questions and about the deletion of data and you're totally right there seems to be no process in reviewing the data that way that all the deletion that all the data that should be in there is still is is not in there anymore so that's a problem because as we know everybody has the right to to be forgotten in the the Internet into this 2nd question and you can ask them you can go there and and write them in e-mail and ask them if they're if if you're included the data database but what they say if 15 thousand people would ask them I I don't know maybe you can estimate the remember the very productively to do to 120 profiles and what I right so Julie they can handle 15 thousand requests I think and I can the afraid she's right have you found any evidence that customers were pushing sources on world show that some of the customers might have used them just as a filtering mechanism and push sources that wouldn't be normal check but we we don't have any evidence of that but you do raise an important point that the uh at banks and the banks that well we use lots of sources and the the bank said of course we wouldn't just go on a Wilczek listing but again it's very difficult to know exactly what was the information that HSBC considered when they closed the mosques account because that is all subject to secrecy 4 use Canada's also ask you to go to the previous slide course I think I think the problem
is we are focusing too much on the loose itself and I have difficulties in making imagining that we can control the solicitor which are being created by 2 different companies I think the problem arises uh when they are used so I I don't know if we can really achieve through legislation or to some kind of control but sources uh better information quality or whatever and maybe it should be very at the point where they are used quite imbalanced where there should be really the only thing the Legislative mechanism of the kind of legal mechanisms to do so this I I'm imagining for instance if the bank uses some societies and denies uh the the person to open account or this a case that all these lists which exists for phone companies and they're out of not so this like in different sectors if the person is then I know the account opening there could be a mechanism by which the person would have foremost the bank of the institution to disclose the sources and to initiate some kind of and your legal procedure which would mean that if the thing and I can't do that question we had some questions on the internet and the question is what do you think it should be rather that we focus on the banks for the points where this information is used rather than talk about the companies which make these this thing that is really good question because that's actually a question of who takes the responsibility for decisions and the funny thing is that will check puts all the weird sources and that but still says all generally legal of sentences from you have to check by itself and then the bank says no in what check there was a list and this name was on the list so right now we have this scenario that people don't the responsibility and I think that's the problem all right we have time for exactly 1 last questions and I hope you don't mind if I give it to the Internet because everybody else has the chance to catch the speaker's later there's 1 piece fire away however any high profile politicians on the list the yes something the politicians the you would expect to be on the list of heads of state where on the list so I guess the list of of the system is working all right so please give another huge round of applause to ours is that if the father and so that was just watch you that
week it and the effect it the if act at at
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Financial surveillance
Untertitel Exposing the global banking watchlist
Serientitel 34th Chaos Communication Congress
Autor Klofta, Jasmin
Wills, Tom
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung 4.0 International:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen.
DOI 10.5446/34856
Herausgeber Chaos Computer Club e.V.
Erscheinungsjahr 2017
Sprache Englisch

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract Faced with new responsibilities to prevent terrorism and money laundering, banks have built a huge surveillance infrastructure sweeping up millions of innocent people. Investigative journalists Jasmin Klofta and Tom Wills explain how, as part of an international collaboration, they exposed World-Check, the privately-run watchlist at the heart of the system.
Schlagwörter Ethics, Society & Politics

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