DEF CON GROUPS: Panel Discussion

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DEF CON GROUPS: Panel Discussion
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Do you love DEF CON? Do you hate having to wait for it all year? Well, thanks to DEF CON groups, you're able to carry the spirit of DEF CON with you year round, and with local people, transcending borders, languages, and anything else that may separate us! In this special event, your DEF CON groups team who works behind the scenes to make DCG possible will introduce themselves and provide status updates. After we're done talking, the remainder of time will be an informal open floor right there in the room to mingle and talk all things DCG.
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so this talk is about DEFCON groups we're getting close to the end we're in the final stretch of this DEFCON maybe you're thinking to yourself I would like to continue in some form or fashion that's what they can talk to you about because this is the core group that runs takes care of DEFCON groups thanks you three I appreciate that so DEFCON groups basically we're going
to discuss what our DEFCON groups how can you get involved if there's not a DEFCON group in your area how to start one if you are already involved in a DEFCON group you know some ideas as far as projects meeting spaces how to promote your group and so on so we're gonna start off by you know introducing ourselves we're basically the core team we're the ones that in the background try to help DEFCON groups grow and just just function from day to day obviously the one only Jeff Moss we're not sure if he's going to be able to swing by or not hopefully he is at some point and then some guy named Justin Street Jason wasn't is the guy taking selfies with your phone a cell phone right now yeah so I've made the mistake of leaving my phone on the table I'm surprised he hasn't stolen my badge yet either so thanks buddy next myself grunt white I'm the global coordinator I try to think of meaningful things to tell Jason to do so that he can give me excuses as to why he shouldn't do those and then it basically gets handed down to April right who anyone who sends an email about hey we want to start a group hey we need updates to our group April will respond to that and and send it on for someone else to handle the things that she is not able which is zero so we also have Casey Casey Casey is also part of the registrar and any updates and things and he's he's got some stuff to talk to you about soon Darington whoo unfortunately was unable to make the talk Darington is the one that actually makes the changes to the websites and
and several other things then we have Tim Roberts down at the end who also handles web content and then soups who couldn't make it this year who also is our social media manager and so that's basically us your DEFCON groups core team so thank you April you want to take over this slide because I've been talking enough okay anybody can do it if you have the interest in meeting other hackers in your area my group is celebrating our one-year anniversary so after last year we just thank you we came home from DEFCON and decided to start a group and within a couple months we were up and running and we've been going ever since so there's a great post it's great so I wrote it there's a great post on the website about how to start a good at DEFCON group it goes through like this so you're thinking about starting a DEFCON group what do you need to think about looking at spaces trying to find trying to find other people how to advertise and then finally how to send us your submission to actually start your group and make it official one thing that happens a lot is that we get emails with submissions that we want to start a new group and we're like we want to be Def Con 42 everybody wants to be Def Con 42 you cannot be DEFCON 42 it's based on your calling code and your area code so it's from the US for us Centrex unfortunately so if you are in another country it might be like one one something something something just say I want to add to know your group name cannot be double-oh-seven or any binary this is so so yeah there's some examples here so in the US and Canada and there's this North American telco thing that actually dictates that we only have to dial three digits so in those areas you can have a three-digit name if you are in an area where let's say you're in six one seven like where I'm from and somebody else wanted to start at another six one seven group they would six B six one seven - a or six one seven - B or if there were more than that when there's overlapping area codes you can pick which one you want easy okay
Thank You April said you guess summer camps about coming to an end so just quick show of hands how many people in here are associated with an active groove okay great so I assume the rest of you are here because perhaps you want to be associated with an existing group is that correct [Music] well one of the things that we noticed when we first started working on this is that we did have a lot of inaccurate not that information so we're starting an initiative to verify all the contact information that we have on our existing groups so our contact information your website information the frequency that you meet where you meet the times that you meet areas of specialty etc we need to get that updated so people can find you and people can find you accurately and efficiently so through that process any non-responsive groups will be purged after a 60-day period and then we'll start the process of trying to get an active group in your area again so everyone can partake in the fun of DEFCON we want to ensure you know your group remains active and as long as we're young let's ensure your group remains active and the other thing is we want to promote you know active assistance and communication between groups - that's also important for all the groups to help each other and you know the very bottom thing or the very bottom line is that we this table up here in front of you we're here to help we volunteer for this because we want to be a part of the community we want to be any assistance to you guys and help you in any way that we can make your groups better so okay thank you [Music] don't worry Casey I'll do it there you
go oh yeah this was Darington slide so I'll cover it so we've actually we've had some questions about how you can use the smiley and the actual term DEFCON in your group names or promotional materials so just an FYI branding laws do apply here it's like you can't just go and say hey we're having a Def Con meetup you know you can't like and Jason can clarify on this a little bit too but you have to actually specify that is your group and it's not Def Con like just DEFCON there is a you know a separation between actual Def Con conference and then your local groups so that is very important to keep in mind if you do use the skully logo if you're not familiar with what skully is it's the bright green thing at the bottom of the screen if you do use that in your logo you do need to have the registered trademark sign on that just to show that it is registered and it's not your own if you'll notice on quite a few groups when they create their logos they will modify that in a certain way so because I'm short I'll step over here look at my shirt it's it's slightly like skewed a little bit but we still just for the sake of law we still try to abide by those rules but if you are going to use it without any modification registered trademark sign please if you do have a question if you're not really sure where those those those thin lines are you know if it's fuzzy between legal not legal copyright issues things just shoot us an email we'll you know clarify that for you let you know if the design that you currently have is cool or you know suggestions on modifying that but just make sure you check for check with us please and as I mentioned already it's very important to make the distinction between your Def Con group meetup as opposed to the actual Def Con conference
all right he's up on this one we've rehearsed several times so hey Tim Roberts just a touch on something that was already said everybody raise your hand if you currently lead a def Conger one so look around everybody keep your hands up look around at each other so something we want to encourage too is to have leaders like some of the people that are leading these groups when you're you're be creative with each other and network with each other because one of the logos you look at with the DEF CON groups it has a map and it has everything these beacons touching and that's one of the things we want to encourage too is to just help collaborate with some of the creative ideas hey here's what our groups doing our groups may just be coming up with retro pies or something as simple as that and some other things you may be developing some zero days who knows you know whatever you're doing just try to reach out to each other help encourage each other say hey here's what our groups are doing as far as the slide email and request handles them process by team of volunteers who handles the everybody yeah so April primarily the game couples are the biggest adult in the group so she's our adult supervision so the backbone so no audio word place you're not gonna get the router reply we do not see we do not open yeah other than that don't attach anything so if you attach a logo say hey here's our new logo and stuff like that don't expect us to open it we should get some embedded PDF or something so but be clear in your communication when you're sending these email requests to some of the requests can be very unclear you know and be a little descriptive to one of them now one of the sections in the submission field talks about what you're doing what's your goals and kind of what you're working on so be a little bit scripted just so people that are looking for Def Con groups may be a little more interested instead of you know just being too big but that's all I got last slide hello everyone how's it going can we start off with everybody that said that their rate of leader raise your hand okay all you guys come up front real quick I'm not gonna hug you don't worry okay okay well I'll give you a hug we got a special DCG challenge you can't come back up now saying that oh I'm a leader but we're gonna be giving out coins for I know your Def Con group leader so these are some DCG coins we're gonna really give some out more for some other questions but these are for the DC GPO sees some challenge coins and we're gonna do a QA but because of the fact that we're doing the closing we're gonna try to do a little bit more QA like live and I want to start off with you've heard a lot of stuff about organization and the minutiae and things I'm not part of any of that so I'm gonna ask you about why why do you want to be in a Def Con group what is a Def Con group about what does it entail what what is it for and basically this key thing that we want to talk about is a Def Con group is a way for you to connect locally with local hackers that share the interest with you Def Con is a global community and I mean like global it's like I've been to conferences and other groups all over the world meeting passion to hackers who are also communicating and not just having this feeling once a year but 24/7 because they're able to talk to people in their own City about their interest about what they're doing and that's what we want to encourage we want you to meet with local hackers it's like just like with Def Con here you've got the villages so it's like if you like wireless you just you're hanging out in the wireless village and you got all those people at the same kind of passion lockpick village ai village bio hacking village social engineering village all these different villages with these interests at you and I keep telling people it's like 25,000 people at DEFCON that's 25,000 opportunities to find someone that shares your interest well with the DEF CON group that even narrows the odds down even better in your favor so you can actually connect with someone locally that's why you have a Def Con group it's like you see all these DEF CON badges you know it's like batch live hashtag batch life and a lot of those are from Def Con groups that are like started out and wanted to do their own badge and like they're learning soldering they're learning how to make PCB boards and how to program and how to make those blinky lights do the blinking things that they do and that's awesome and amazing but they're also learning and giving classes it's like I know a Def Con groups that are going into schools and teaching children about online safety I know others that are working with nonprofits in different parts of the world there's one especially in China that's doing this that's working with nonprofits and actually going in and helping with equipment to local area schools that don't have that much internet connectivity at all it's like so I mean there's there's a lot of things that you can do with your Def Con group it's not just a pub Meetup which there's a lot of different groups that are like that which is awesome so it's like but there you're giving presentations you have you want to give a presentation at Def Con which I hope you do because you should
it's like but you don't want to do it right off the bat go to a local def con group and give that talk get constructive criticism hear your from your peers get heckled and learn how that works too because I had to learn that the hard way as well it's like and find out what it's about so that's what Def Con group is for is for everybody so we're gonna open up for questions before I keep rambling and we want some questions and answers of what you think you have if you're wanting to start a new Def Con group if you're already have one or you want some clarification of what we've talked about let's open it up for question and answer period yes yes okay so the question was what's for spacing it's like where do you want to have these the DEF CON group meet up where could it be or what's a good space for it and that's a very varied answers because there's a lot of places you can me I know some like the DC 44:20 usually meet at a pub or a restaurant where they still have a talk to so there's a lot of Def Con groups that have an organization would like to get a restaurant or get some kind of hotel lobby breakfast area thing like where they can use a thing I believe April DC six one seven meets in actual information security companies co-working space court I've heard of other people that meet in like dance clubs but during the day when they're not in use so it's just like an empty space that they're not doing anything yeah colleges are awesome they're usually willing to donate space for free one of the things you can do too is if you are at a university I know when I was in college I just started up a group or just a club and from there you're allowed to reserve space so you can reserve some of the lab space even as often times if you're registered club at a university so you can even merge your Def Con group in with that or get affiliated with one that create spaces maker spaces are another good spot because they they love stuff like that yeah I mean there's the possibilities are endless and when you sell it as it's not you know a bunch of criminals trying to break things and you say you know we're trying to learn and make the world safe and you you put it out there in a way that it's positive and and especially if it's a membership type of organization and you offer free I mean it's gonna be for anyway but you offer it's open to the public and anybody can show up from any group that already uses that space there's community centers libraries I mean I know that's kind of lame or whatever but like you know there's the possibilities are endless into all kinds of different spaces can we get Mike to on okay so the the current leaders over here this a slight so where'd you guys meet had quite a few answers one of the really cool one was up front like hackerspaces which is really cool yeah go ahead anyway yeah I'm Peter I coordinate the DEF CON group in Shenzhen China and actually with Jason's help on he's kind of ambassador trip to China we connected with a local makerspace as they called in Tianjin and they've hosted us pretty much all our meetings and so we also use their advertising network which gets us a lot of people involved in the maker community and Chen Jien so we have a lot of people so that network also helps us connect with potential members you had said yeah oh good okay sorry I don't pay attention very well sorry so who's got another question yes sir Ireland very cool okay so they're asking for international groups how do you see if there's actually one in your area actually on the DEF CON group's org website there's all the list of all the groups it's like so you can go there and see if there's one in your area and once again I always in that caveat within it there's not start one yes come over here and go in the mic cuz after like four words in I forgot what you sorry to say I run five six ula we've been around for about five years we're lucky enough to have a private space which helps us a lot when you do use things like a school or a business they will influence what you can or cannot talk about you may also be subject to search upon arrival so keep that in mind when you try to align with these different places that you you may be putting yourself at a disservice by using these public locations but again we don't all have the ability to get that private space and it does take some time any other questions I have a habit okay good I would say I have a habit it's no one to ask questions I usually run into the audience and I make them ask me a question so if you don't be that guy or gal have a question yes sir merging you said is there an effort to merge or 2,600 meetings you know I've had this a lot especially with like
within Europe they're like specially in Germany there's a CCC group and then there's other other locations and other groups in other regions where it's like well I don't want to know if I could do a Def Con group because we already have this group and I'm like when is one ever enough so Def Con group is not trying to supersede any other hacking group it's our local meetup it's not trying to replace 2600 or a CCC meetup or a AHA group or a haha group it's like it's not trying to or a nice sec it's like it's not trying to replace those meetings but it can enhance it maybe one is more social like 2600 for me as always my experience with them has always been more socially active with Def Con groups you can actually view presentations and you can do projects and you can do building and things more creative moments so and 2600 groups have that as well but it's more social so it could be a separate group that second other-- time of the week or the month to actually meet up but if you want to say hey let's meet the first Friday of every month it's like and just combine the two there's nothing wrong with that either there's nothing there's no competition so it's like it's how you want to make it and you make the group that fits in your area it's like there's no one right way just like when you're hacking something there's no right one way to do something it's like you find what works for you and then you go with it that's something I kinda want to interject on that too so like and that's where we have but if you tech meetups and so when we started the DEF CON groups we were very careful to not step on the toes like Freaknik or 2600 or other things because that's not not the point as jason said so we were really careful in planning with that so it might be something to consider and something else we're currently working on - which if you guys have any questions about that we'll be around after I know so between Nashville and Knoxville and Chattanooga we're currently in the talks of doing like a big barbecue together meeting somewhere and just kind of getting together as you know it keeps the whole DEFCON spirit kind of going even after DEFCON so right so from DFW I started the dc2 1-4 in 2002 it's one of the longer running DC groups what we've done in the DFW area if you don't know anything about DFW to get from one side to the other is our hour and a half so there are actually between DC to one four there's a Dallas hackers there's a hack Fort Worth there's North Texas cybersecurity group and at the beginning of all the meetings we promote the other groups the whole idea is trying to get people to go and we have them in different locations because a lot of people will live an hour and a half away and they want to be involved and there are a few people who will make two or three meetings and it'll cross-pollinate and the information gets around it's like this is the point of this is to get people together of like minds to be able to feed off of each other to network I mean I can't even begin to tell you the number of people that has gotten jobs by attending DC - one for I know I've gotten two or three myself it is a great networking opportunity that you can start up and join in on the other groups you can start off with another one and then split off if you have to there's actually a calendar a Google Calendar that we maintain to make sure that we're not stepping on each other's toes so we have a complete list of when all the different events happen and you can go to one spot and find it so I mean it's a collaborative effort and as as DEFCON group global ambassador I'm not allowed take partiality or anything but DC to14 was the first Def Con group I called home and I drove three hours to get to it because there's such an open inviting place so if you're in the Dallas area it's like definitely meet up with the DC to14 crew so good job so if it's your jam one of the things that we do at DC a59 as we work with Kentucky law a law institute and from that some of the law enforcement agencies have reached out to us as trusted advisors and also ask us questions and had me and a few other people from DC a59 come out and speak for security awareness talks and things like that so that's also another good outlet because with that they'll support in the lean on you as trusted advisors yeah that brings up a good point everyone is welcome at a Def Con group it's like law enforcement feds it's like let them make sure it's like they're not they shouldn't be outed they're so you shouldn't make them feel uncomfortable it's like you should be working with them and showing them this is what we do this is what it's about communications open also the more feds that you friend at the local DC groups the easier chances of spotting the fed at Def Con and getting a shirt so keep that in mind okay it's like so so work with them it's like I mean 360 you know days a week a month I mean make sure you're talking to them and you're working with them to collaborate on but then at Def Con say hey I know that guy's a Fed I'm looking at you Tony but uh so yeah you work with that and that's how overtired so so yeah so collaborate with local law enforcement you're not doing anything bad you shouldn't be doing anything bad so make that you have that make sure that you have that rapport and they know exactly what's going on because I've seen groups that have gotten in trouble because they wanted to be you know mysterious it's like I put on my robe and wizard hat and I'm doing arcane things over here and it causes problems so make sure you're open and you're communicating and you're part of the community because it's like you're not just in the hacker community you're in your local community as well and you should be and trying to impact them there too I see a question in the back yep this is actually a question I'm not the POC 3402 but I'm the only one here in this talk so here I am we actually partnered with Stratcom in Omaha Nebraska I've had full uniform kernels come up and send their people to our meetings not incite outreaching to other other greeny hacking groups so just like you're saying you always want to reach out and and talk to the feds so to speak and have them trust you we also have ties to InfraGard and a lot of other local groups like that that are that attend our meetings so very good awesome so it can be a working collaboration also one other thing that we need to know you need to make sure when you're doing these DEFCON groups sometimes they're in places where there might be cost occurred it's like I know DC 801 a lot of their groups sometimes it'll do dues or like their I got out
their own space it's amazing spaces DC 801 and that's why you have such awesome parties and then do Kickstarter's and there's some that are charities but for a Def Con group it's like if you're having an open public DEFCON group you cannot charge money for people to show up it's like it's like you may be able to get sponsors and have sponsors it's like it's not then it's vendor neutral they're not trying to like advertise in their group they can just say hey thanks for giving a shout out but you cannot charge for a Def Con group we've had problems in the past where people want to say come to our we've created a Def Con group and now we we're going to have our Def Con group meeting and they're charging price to cover cost you can't do that it's like this is free and open to everyone should be available and able to come in yes question he was asked he's like the dc4 one four and Milwaukee actually meets once a month and he wants to know what the meeting schedules are for some of the other groups because I know of one that it meets once a quarter and another one that meets like twice a month so there's different different time for meetings what's your schedule usually we got some run-over here so I'm starting to hear some of that beat like every other week or just once a week once so once more like so twice a month once a presentation the other ones casual okay so I'm Miranda around DC 610 Easton Pennsylvania we run once a month but the important thing to really realize about this is your projects that you do in your DEF CON groups they run all the time so I highly recommend like getting a slack channel together right getting an IRC or whatever your mode of communication is so right now like we're planning a bar crawl CTF right and it's gonna happen like towards the end of the fall or whatever so make sure that those constant communication channels are open so even if you only meet once a month I know the one in Philly just started up TC two and five they only meet once every couple of months but if you're always talking to each other and you're always communicating and you have these projects going and you make your project plans and stuff that's gonna make your group a whole hell of a lot stronger so you're not going and those four weeks if you go monthly they go fast and I realize I haven't done anything and my guys are busy too so if you have those open channels it's super super critical for it to get a really great group going I remember the dc2 one for having old silk IRC channels it's like so yeah constant communications is key yeah DC 43 and we normally meet once a month for our primary presentation sessions and one night but we also get together two to three times a month for our CTF team to work on either active competitions or just to come up with other CTF ideas that we want to build for any other meetups that we get with I have a quick question how many people here want to the rest of the world to know what's going on in their Def Con group who wants to actually inform everybody else and the other hackers in the community say hey this is what we're doing that's pretty cool we're looking for that it's like if you've noticed I when I travel I always try to find the local Def Con group POC and interview him or her and talk to them about it and I've got some of their interviews already up on Def Con groups org but I'm only one guy and yes I travel a lot it's like but not a lot to get to everybody so start submitting you're uploading your your own interviews to conduct your own interviews upload them to YouTube and send us the information so we can actually post you up on the DEF CON group's website as well so everybody can start understanding what's going on in your DEF CON grip and get more exposure to what you're doing in your local community and if you follow at DEFCON groups on Twitter we will retweet Def Con groups that are tweeting about their upcoming meetups and things like that and things we're working on so it's a good way to find out what's going on and what's coming up yeah something just want to add to that - in your interview videos if you can just do it quick you know like one or two sentence blurb about projects that your group does because that's a really cool way to share those ideas across other groups for those that are looking for something to do so just something in mind to keep whenever you actually do those interviews so who else has a question yes well oh my gosh don't me start out talking about malicious hackers no no it's like you're not putting your twice in because it's like it's not malicious hackers as criminals that go after you there's a there's a distinct difference it's like I did a whole talk about that once no I don't think it puts any more of a mark on you than anything else it's like there's I mean you're trying to help and be better and if someone's gonna use that as a I mean I've been dodged it's like all my information has been Doc's it's like my home address I've got 26 cameras and insides outside of my house and stuff because I know what's been going on and it's not pleasant but it doesn't matter I wouldn't change a thing I'm proud of what I do and I'm proud of what I'm doing and so if they want to come out you know they're gonna come at you no matter what you say or what you do so dis regardless if you're being a member of a Def Con group or your PSC contact information is out there on the web because hopefully you're using a generic gmail account for your PLC because that is out there on the web it's like it doesn't matter it's like you're there you're trying to help the community and screw anyone else trying to mess with that as long as you're not associating yourself with things that are illegal obviously then it seems like that shouldn't shouldn't be too big of a concern but yeah I mean if you're if you're taking the time out of your schedule to step out there and contribute to the community then you know good for you thank you yeah we got a comment right
here for someone who's maybe have some experience with it I've used told the Mike Deasy a65 and I and just to remark about the potential possibility of criminals that would happen to join the group a lot of our dedicated members are actually dedicated to promoting like the profession of information security and to make sure that you know your part now your personal information is safe and that you know your devices and your systems too happy actually be trusted with that said criminals are antithetical to you know what we actually do and we and you know if you try to do anything weird you will get caught not possibly by us or other hackers or the authorities so it's it's it's futile they even go down that road actually that reminds me of a really funny story the only criminal interaction I have ever had at a DEFCON group meeting was at DC to14 where some guy in a white shirt I don't know I forgot where it was where the book place was but but it was hilarious because it was a guy in a white collared shirt dress khakis it's like I mean literally I think they were Dickies and he showed up because he heard there was a hacker meet up and he wanted to know how to hack around his proxy at work so he could get Facebook and Twitter onto his computer that is the only criminal activity I've ever encountered and it was some sales guy from a life insurance company so sorry to out the guy from the life insurance code but it's like boo yeah but that is the only criminal interaction I've ever had a Def Con group meeting anywhere in the world it's like was that guys oops my bad he's probably still looking for that proxy work around let me say something real quick to like IO did I teach that lock-picking workshop I did that with DC a59 I wanted to create spaces and they had concerns because they were like well aren't you just teaching people how to break into places no I'm we're teaching people how to use correct cores and good locks and how to you know fix this stuff remediate against it and so I think even that is even having a preface as you have your meetings if they're if you're teaching something where you're like hey you know there's some criminals here they might use it or whatever I mean you can't be responsible for people but you should have the preface is saying you know hey we're teaching this for security awareness purposes and so you know and so you have a more comprehensive understanding of how technology or physical security or whatever works and and that's one of the drives for InfoSec right so I think having that mindset as a DC group is important as well and I think Casey should be able to detect some words about like because he works with the hacking groups there in Oklahoma and he also works with InfraGard as well so and they do stuff
together so once you're talking about those I think one of the biggest things that I want to say is that the guys staying up here at the podium right here he's one of the biggest advocates for our community that I've ever seen but it's the truth my first Def Con was six years ago and never I would never imagine I'd be sitting up here trying to help people but this guy right here encouraged me to be involved and I think that's the biggest part is be involved you may not be a super hacker but you contribute you contribute to all of us and and when you contribute to all of us you make all of us better and so that's the biggest thing that I've learned is to be involved get out there break outside of your shell I'm socially awkward I'll admit it and these guys these guys pushed me to go out and talk and to meet people it's the best thing I've ever done said I am such a completely different person now after my first Def Con than I was before I attended and it's all about being involved so just encourage everyone you know be involved in your community and care about it definitely yeah ok we got 10 minutes we got a question back here does this work yeah so I think a lot of us that are interested in the subject are pretty you know privacy minded concerned about our identity and one of the things I was wondering was currently on the DEFCON groups is there on the website is there any identification or notification a user who wanted to go want to be a new member of a DEFCON group would they be notified that they had to present ID or be searched training no there are I think April has a good experience with some of the registration on the users but I will start off and say that you do not have to register with your own ID to go to a DEFCON group meeting that's not required certain places you do but it's like to get to be a part of a DEFCON group requires no registration it's like I mean if they do you can use one of my aliases I've got like 30 I can spare it's like but you do not have to actually give your name or good and most people will like specially with the dc-8 of one and a lot of other groups there all by hacker handles it's like they're not using their real name so I don't think that is going to that well I know that's not a requirement so but some of the locations and April's got a good history on some of the locations that may require you to register at that meeting at that time as you can go into one of the things we've struggled with is being in Boston and we have a lot of tall buildings and there is building security and the building security requires you to show ID when you enter the building in order to get in we aren't huge fans of that but we have to comply because it's where spaces and it's free and it's it's how things are working so we have like and then we have been having an event bright registration where you pre-reg and then we we give all that info to the building we don't get that info I personally don't get that info the co-working space that's hosting us doesn't get that info it just goes to the building so when you come in you could just show them you know a Batman ID or something it doesn't like even if the name doesn't match I don't know if they've noticed but it's something there are some places where you're going to have to struggle with that and try to figure out if if that's something you can handle as a group or if if you can help out as an individual or if you have another way that you could present yourself with some sort of IB but that would match what your register as obviously it's better if you can just have a totally anonymous drop-in kind of thing there's another side to that too where if you're trying to have food pizza and beer for example and you want to know how many people are showing up it's totally up to the organizers of the individual group how they want to manage all of that and we we talk internally about how how we want to to handle this particular issue because of the tall buildings and it doesn't matter where we end up for some reason we always end up in a really tall building that requires where the security requires us to show ID yeah I don't condone and condone any illegal activity trying to get them to tall buildings but but there certainly you know ways to handle that as an individual to protect your own privacy so real quick I want to bring all the the Deaf grunt group leaders that came up here and and and contributed and hung out for a while and everything thank you guys for coming up here and standing instead of being comfortable in your seats I really appreciate that so thank you thank you I'd like to start the closing statements it's like I'm everybody I think should have their own closing statement on it but I'd like to say it's like this is a group effort there's not one person behind Def Con groups it's like this does not function this does not operate 365 days a year without this team of people working on their off hours working on their weekend working when the times they can to get these things done and I've seen some of the emails where April was like directly attacked like what why isn't this been done it's like I've got all these other jobs I like it's a volunteer effort it's like we're all volunteers trying to put in our time because we care so much about the message and we care so much about the community to give our time to do these things so just like it's this team that helps make the DEF CON group's organization part run it's all of you that make the community run to make your individual local DEFCON groups and you're just as vital as this team so I think everybody is doing a great job and we just need to do more we need more hackers out there working in the community together so thank you Thank You Jason thank you guys for you know everything you do originally we had planned to sort of split up the room if you wanted to join a group you're gonna go to one side or if you want to start a group if you already in a group and you have ideas you're gonna go to another side the logistics of that aren't going to work so what we're going to do is after after the closing ceremony so after closing ceremony anybody that asked questions if you want to join a group or start a group then you will see April or Casey if you have questions about ideas for your group like projects things like that come see Tim or myself and then Jason will do his Jason Street thing and sort of float around everywhere so catch him if you can but does that that's it for me do you guys and we'll keep the closing comments Miss America speech but this is a reminder that community builds each other up they don't tear each other down so you know kind of keep the mentality that and even when you're when you're feeling a little bummed or left out or something there's a lot of people here man and there's a lot of people that love and they want to share information and no questions stupid so be excellent to each other there you go hey I really appreciate you guys your cooperation everything again after closing ceremonies if you want to hang out in here just come find us and really appreciate it and have awesome rest today thank you [Applause]