BCOS Monero Village - Inside Monero

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Video in TIB AV-Portal: BCOS Monero Village - Inside Monero

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BCOS Monero Village - Inside Monero
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for those of you don't know me my name is Howard Chu I am a founder and CTO of
this company Simas corporation where
we're kind of based in the US we were founded in Los Angeles but now everybody is scattered to different parts of the world like I took off to Ireland and people are in France wherever ever I personally have been writing open source software since the 1980s I actually did write a lot on code that runs the internet Diego wasn't kidding about that I've also worked on a lot of the developer tools that most programmers still used today almost all of the new compiler tools can you make the linker the debugger I've been through all of that code I I have a personal policy that I do not use software that I haven't touched myself all right so everything that like like this Android distro that I'm running on this own is one that I built everything on my laptop you know the Linux systems you know I should be driver to the kernel and basically yeah I won't touch anything that's close source if I can't get my hands inside it I won't use it I did a few years working for NASA at the drug Hoffman Laboratory in Pasadena I worked on the spatial for three years I was good fun so I actually do have software that's been in orbit and never crashed okay more recently I've been working on database technology this database engine I developed in 2011 has turned out to be the world's fastest smallest and most reliable transactional database that's kind of interesting because Manero uses it now so that's kind of cool I've been working on the open l that project for almost twenty years and and you know we turned that from a small research piece of code into production quality code that today is the world's fastest distributed database so lots of other stuff and I've actually been working in a security software for quite a long time a lot of the again a lot of the foundational defensive software that you see on UNIX systems that came out of work that I did these back in JPL I've also spent some time reverse engineering hacking on proprietary protocols like the stuff that it'll be used and these things are still out there on the web now you can still find rtmp dumped on github in the project okay so topics for this talk what does Manero I mean you got kind of a flavor of that with Diego's introduction but I'll get a little bit more comprehensive about that now this talk is not going to be you know dive deep into the math or the real details of technology though the Monaro research lab guys will cover that more through this weekend but but you'll get nice overview right so first of all what is venero we talked about this it's a totally private cryptocurrencies but it's still built on a public block painting all right it's still built on a block payment anybody can participate in the thing about it that special though is all the transactions that show up in the block chain are still okay that means you see the details of what's going on inside a transaction but you can see that the hands that have that and where does this main Manero come from well it's actually just a simple word for money comes from the Esperanto language how many of you guys are familiar with Esperanto okay it's a hacker crowd that's obviously an easy question okay this project started in 2014 so it's only just barely four years old now here's a snapshot from a coin market cap it's kind of hard to read but the basic message here is that about a year ago an arrow was worth 22 per coin I updated this last night it's about 98 dollars somewhere around 100 bucks back in January it reached a peak of four hundred seven dollars so it's it's had its ups and downs okay so first of all a really basic definition what is a cryptocurrency okay and the one I posted up here is literally just copied out of Wikipedia most of the cryptocurrencies that exist today and there's at least a thousand of them now most of them are
ports of the Bitcoin code right and
Bitcoin code base was released in 2009 the the main feature of that app that makes in crypto currencies that makes in cryptographic the cryptography is just used to create what's card called artificial scarcity all right because normally when you've got digital technologies you can copy them in emit at will right you've got a you've got a file you can create as many copies of it as you want and obviously in a currency you need things to be rare or actually unique you know if I have a ten dollar coin I shouldn't be able to make infinite copies so that 10 dollar coin and keep spending lee if you did that you wouldn't have a working currency so the trick with crypto currencies is the cryptography is used to ensure scarcity every transaction that occurs in one of these crypto currencies is recorded on what's called a blockchain and basically a block gain is just a public distributed record right distributed ledger so blockchains they're basically a distributed database okay it's a distributed database with what we call group commit which means you batch a whole bunch of transactions into a single group and you commit them into the database all at once right this terminology helps me because I I come here from a distributed database background I don't know if it helps you so much but that's where we are so transactions are grouped into blocks and they get committed at one time and typically there's a very high commit lately see all right that means blocks don't happen very frequently okay for example in Bitcoin a block is committed on average about once every 10 minutes and in normal databases like sequel whatever you would expect commits to happen within a few milliseconds so this is this is a really start defining difference between blockchain and regular databases in Manero the block time is two minutes so it's a little more frequent but still it's much slower than you're used to in the database world the other thing about blockchain that makes it a chain is that every block carries a signature of the preceding block a hash cryptographic hash and as each block chains back to
with the hash fits previous one you can start from the tail and work towards the head and know that every block is valid because every block has the correct - if you if you run across the block that doesn't have the correct a schvitz preceding one then you know that something is broken on your blockchain somebody's been tampering or that sort of thing now again in these cryptocurrencies the blocks and the transactions are broadcast basically they're transmitted across peer-to-peer networks so everybody who wants to use the currency generally has not participate in its net so everyone node in the network actually validates every single block they validate the signatures for each one one this kind of processing is extremely redundant that means you've got a network of a million nodes and a million nodes are doing the exact same calculation each time yeah highly redundant but that's intentional because when everybody is doing the same calculation they should all get the same answer if any one of them gets a different answer you know that something is broken somewhere in your network so the act of producing these blocks compiling them together it's called mining and mining is again it's extremely fluid intensive and based on proof of work I'm not talking about prove mistake that's a completely different system so we're just talking about how Bitcoin Manero and several other similar coins operate right the cost of mining is actually an essential part of the security of the system okay because you know it costs significant resources to perform lining that means it's it's very expensive to attack the network and try to forge data again mining is a bit of a competition it's a race so the miner that generates the next block first gets a reward for doing so Co now race conditions do occur frequently where multiple miners could produce different blocks at about the same time okay so in the database world we call this eventual consistency but the chain doesn't always agree with itself all the time but eventually it'll converge to a single longest chain okay
so I referenced Bitcoin a lot because it was the first digital currency that's really been successful to any extent and their aim was to be trustless and permissionless and a decentralized system now you have to understand the context of the world when Bitcoin was created you know this was in 2008-2009 just after the last global recession and the creation of Bitcoin was a direct reaction to the mismanagement of the world's funds by global banks central banks right so you get people who see gee the global banks just screwed us all how can we create a money system that doesn't have that as a factor as an element in in how the system works so this this is what led to the creation of it jointly and they really like that success of money systems they have some very essential properties right it must entrust this the system should operate without any trusted third partner the banks were the trust of third parties and they they broke their trust you know they they screwed a lot of people they were there was a lot of corruption going on a lot of false accounting going on and so when you place your value in a trusted third party that Qatar Department isn't worth your trust you're totally screwed right so you want a system that doesn't require a trust in a third party they wanted the system to be permissionless so that anybody can use it and nobody can deny you use of that right again if you look at the modern banking system you know a simple example here in the u.s. marijuana is legal in many states in the country now right but a lot of businesses can't actually deal in marijuana and have bank accounts because the banking regulations say they're not allowed to do this so a again when you've got this centralized trusted third party that decides you can and can't use the money system you know that's it's it leads to unclear discrimination and exclusion and so again you know if you're gonna build a new system you wanted to have properties that allow everybody to use it equally and fairly alright and then this leads to the last point of decentralization the only way you can guarantee that nobody is going to lock people out is if there's no central point of control if there's no central decision-maker you can say oh I like this guy using my coin but I don't want this guy using the coin you know you have to have the power diffused enough that no single entity can make arbitrary decisions like that okay so what's that that's that's what this slide says right here so you know point has all these these great ideals but in fact it fails in multiple ways all right it is not actually permissionless okay we already have documented examples of users and accounts being banned or you know shut off from access coins being blacklisted based on their usage history all right so it is a fact that people can control who gets access to the Bitcoin network it is not decentralized okay if you look at the distribution of mining power on the Bitcoin network you know it's like like 80% of that the space in a couple small cities in China and the rest of the world doesn't even amount to 15% so there's a strong centralization happening here it also it doesn't actually behave like the cash all right it doesn't behave like money when you spin it coin when you send a coin to a vendor you know you're giving the your complete financial history and actually you're seeing the vendors complete financial history at the same time I'm you know you see each other's wallet address and you suddenly know everything there is to know about their spending habits so this I mean this is it's insane to even think of it as money right if you if you think like okay I've got a 50 cent coin in my pocket and I'd give it to this guy and he toss us into into a coin jar alright nobody can look at that time chart and say oh yeah Howard put 50 cents in there there's no way to know that alright and if you're looking you know if the guy with the coin jar is there he can't tell oh yeah
Howard still has two dollars in his pocket you know there's no way to know that in a regular exchange of real money but in Bitcoin these things are all revealed and really revealing these things is is detrimental you know if you're running a business if you're you know trying to do if you cheese it you're trying to buy a surprise gift for something all of these things are totally legitimate use cases for regular money but they can't be achieved on a public block painting like Bitcoin so it fails as a currency it also fails just as a technology okay the Bitcoin network today is claimed to support where seven transactions per second okay if you look at the statistics it never actually gets faster than three and a half pounds I've got four segments okay and you know put that in the perspective of a credit card processing Network will handle those thousands of transactions per second so you're talking about this global currency and and proclaiming it can be used for everything but it can't even manage you know a hundred of what a typical existing currency network already does the other problems I mean technology wise you know the code in Bitcoin is loaded with hard-coded constants that constrain how it behaves and these these constants tend to be a source of great controversy in the Bitcoin developer community you know this is this one megabyte block size limit has been there and has been a source of great controversy for at least three years the other thing you know the Bitcoin coin distribution it's it sets have a fixed coin supply and so eventually the last coin will be issued in mining and nobody actually knows if the mining network will continue to operate after that event right because they're trusting that miners will still want to mind based on transaction fees in each block but there's actually no incentive for them when the the main block reward goes to zero so Manero in in a lot of ways you can think of Manero as Bitcoin to data all right it's it's a system that people design for years after Bitcoin existed so they've observed a lot of the problem set that exists in the Bitcoin technology and they've come up with solutions to most of these all right maybe not all all right it is actually permissionless right coins are fungible so they can't be banned they can't be censored points don't have any history so you can't choose to ban them them it is actually fairly decentralized in comparison a bit point it's it's much more distant than decentralized and the proof of work out where the makes centralization more difficult okay now in the past six months we've had some examples that would challenge this assertion but I'll get into that later it actually does behave like cash all right when you when you spend a Manero that doesn't reveal anything about what's left and your wallet and it doesn't reveal anything to the buyer or the seller about each other's holdings so it actually does behave like money the technology is dynamically scalable all right there aren't really any hard-coded constants in the code basic that limit its performance it has a perpetual tailing issue diego mentioned this earlier this morning so at the at the beginning all right you've got a large amount of coins being emitted and then the number of coins tails off to a small value but it never drops below 0.3 coins per minute right 0.6 per pot the code base is based on something called crypto note which is a completely separate independent code base for Bitcoin so it doesn't inherit any of bitcoins bugs but it also I mean there's a downside which is we don't don't hear any of bitcoins adoption so just to give you some insight into how the number of coins will progress over time the blue line here is the Bitcoin coin emission curve and you can see it will max out eventually at 22 million or whatever the value is and right around the Year 2040 the Monaro curve will cross the Bitcoin curve and it will continue continue growing on that point okay so how does all of this actually work right how does it an arrow ensure that it remains permissionless and to be permissionless requires you to be unsensible and the unsensible requires fungibility Diego talked a little bit about that this morning this is probably one of the most important characteristics that makes money what it is it makes it usable right so again yeah one point equals any other point one X bar equals one x mark every point is indistinguishable from every other point that you have to have privacy and anonymity for all of your transactions once you establish that any coin is completely private that means it has no individual history that can be traced right and once once you have no history then then there's nothing for you know a controlling entity to try and bang again compared to Bitcoin and pretty much every other coin that's based on Bitcoin you know the the sender address and the receiver address are both publicly they're both recorded forever in the blockchain right the transact amount is publicly and any particular coin can be traced all the way back to its in database creation so you can see everybody who's held out from from any point in time so you cannot have fungibility without a total privacy and anonymity for every transaction now there are some cryptocurrencies out there that provide optimal privacy okay or they only obscure one or two elements of a transaction but because the use of privacy is optional the majority of transactions are still transparent and the ones that aren't transparent actually stick out right they become noteworthy and once they become noteworthy and distinguishable they're tracing the other problems in practice when privacy is optional the majority people won't actually use it right they won't even know they may not even be aware that they need to choose to use it okay so there you know there are a bunch of different elements of a transaction that will show up on a block you know how are we protecting each of these elements first of all your wallet address you know the long string of digits that identifies your wallet never actually appears in the blockchain you know the addresses that you talk about and and give to each other when you say hey send me money to this address those never appear in the block instead we use stealth addresses and the stealth address is randomly generated and it's a one-time use okay so since
it's randomly generated it can't actually be associated back to you any actual wallet address so everything that's recorded in the blockchain stands on its own it can't be linked back to any original wall so that takes recipients now how do we protect the identity of the sender right we have something called a ring signature so instead of a transaction containing just one coin that a sender is sending out it actually can point contains multiple decoys right and currently the narrow ring size you set at seven which means there's one real coin in six decoys there's there's another trick to using link signatures the ones we use are called traceable which means we can generate a key image that goes with each ring signature and that key image is unique that's neatly associated with the coin that's being spent so we can identify if a double spend attempt is being made so if you're familiar with public key cryptography you know there's always a key parent right there's a public key and a private key if you encrypt a message with the public key you can only decrypt it with a private key and vice versa if you encrypt the message for the private key you can only decrypt it with a public right so that's that's a standard single key signature in a ring signature you you actually associate multiple private keys with the message and anybody can observe this and verify that all of the participants in that ring signature had a valid key but you cannot identify which one one is the original sender a more recent improvement in Manero supposed to deployed January 2017 it's called ring confidential transactions and so the prior to this prior to January 2017 the transaction amounts were published right but with confidential transaction the transaction amounts are also hidden and the funny thing about CT is this technology was developed by a Bitcoin developer for using Bitcoin and they still haven't deployed it you know I mean this was developed over three or four years ago and actually Manero is the first to deploy and and the technology underlying confidential transaction is also based on ring signatures so there's there's an ongoing theme there so I'll give you the basics of how this works I'm not going to go into great depth here because that's somebody else's talk but the idea is you you store a transaction amount in what's called a Peterson commitment and you are committing to a hash of the actual value right so you don't actually show ten dollars or whatever you generate a hash of the actual value and it's a special kind of a cache these hashes can actually be added to each other and the result is still a valid sum so the sum of two hashes is equal to the hash of the final value and that that means you can independently verify that the inputs and the output are exactly what they claim to be even though you don't know the numbers inside now there's there's a problem which is that if you can't see the values inside that's it's possible for somebody to to quit giving negative numbers in or whatever all right so so we also require arrange proof that's that asserts that the values are actually within a valid range you know values have to be within you know zero to two to the 64 minus 1 1 and so this range proof is basically it says in our case we break a value up into you into binary we represent it as a string of binary digits and we just construct a ring signature for each digit it says it oh yeah this digit could be 0 or 1 the next digit could be 0 or 2 to be 0 or 4 or 0 or 8 and before all of these together to create the final value and as Diego mentioned a rate rate quite large it's something like 1200 bytes or proof so this this has a bit of a cost on our network we're working to reduce that cost when we introduce bulletproof Slater this year here another element of privacy that you know some people talk about is hiding the network address when you actually create a transaction right so we've been working with something called the ITP invisible Internet Protocol it's very similar to tor or its comparable in its purpose and it'll hide the actual Internet addresses of all the participating network nodes the project that's working on ITP is called Kaufering and they actually had their first alpha release just about a week ago so that's that's moving right along and anonymous here this weekend is and he'll be talking more about that copy as well ok so the centralization this this has been a pretty hot topic in the past couple of months the the proof-of-work algorithm that the miners execute is called kryptonite and it was designed to be memory hard which means it uses a lot of RAM and it depends on the slowness of RAM to make me make it hard work it actually uses multiple crypto algorithms it uses AES 256 uses casick plague and the breast whole bunch of other crypto hash algorithms it is I mean it was resistant to a state documentation primarily due the cost of putting a lot of RAM on a chip ok that's that's really the main protection it depended on its it's kind of difficult to implement on GPUs because it uses a large number of random accesses into memory so it uses a large amount of memory and it uses it in random order ok and GPUs are optimized to access memory in sequential order so there were some considerations to how to make this memory hard but I'll get more into that later in comparison alright the Bitcoin mining hash is based on sha-256 which is a cryptographic hash it's been around for a few years and it was designed intentionally to be very efficient and very easy to implement all right so the Bitcoin hash is actually quite trivial to to put into hardware in silicon and that that's kind of what has led to bitcoins problems today right there couple of chip manufacturers in China that can make super op I shot 256 chips and they keep them all for themselves so now kryptonite it was a good idea for 2013 when it was designed alright but there are actually kryptonite Asics in existence today I'm wearing so I'm actually these are Asics I love them but uh the thing you have to realize its memory hardness is not a good idea because memory is a
fast-moving target all right every three years memory ticking memory capacity doubles all right capacity doubles and the speeds increase okay so to base your entire defense on memory hardness to me that was stupid okay and now I wasn't around in 2013 so I couldn't tell these guys that yes today I'm gonna say that memory hardness is a stupid feature for a proof-of-work rather it's not adequate and you know I've proposed a new algorithm it's called random J s there's actually two projects out there now one of them is called programmable P o W I helped design that as well that's that's it aimed more at GPUs and random J s just aimed more at CPUs but I would say you know there's there's nothing exclusive in those designs they could they could work on either so the main the main idea here is you want a proof-of-work algorithm that actually exploits the features of a general purpose CPU all right the like if you look at the sha-256 algorithm it was made to be easy to build in heart heart I mean that was his purpose was to be very fast and very efficient and if you want proof of work you want the work to actually be hard it should actually take some time if you take energy and it should take difficult computations so that's the idea behind the random program proof of work and these are I mean the proof of concept has been out for a couple months in it and a more final implementation exists today it's just undergoing testing now so as opposed to Bitcoin with its fixed block size and its three and a half transactions per second in Manero the block size is dynamic it's based on the median block size of the previous hundred blocks and the limited I mean the only reason to limit the block size is because we're afraid of spam right we're afraid of somebody who's going to turn generate hundreds or thousands of dummy transactions just to clog my network okay so with a fix or with a limited block size the fee goes up as as you start raising the block size so somebody who's trying to generate thousands of spam transactions it gets very expensive for them to keep that out of also the transact a fee is calculated based on the transaction size and the block size so all of this feeds together and says if you're generating a lot of the stuff you're gonna pay more now the fee is also dynamic in that as legitimate usage increases the fee will decrease and again that's based on a median of the previous other blocks there's another element of scalability which is simply the size of the block pain data right and and this is actually where my involvement in the narrow begins okay the original Manero code kept all of its blocked pain in in memory in RAM and so if you're working with a PC that's only got a 32-bit processor you can't use more than 2 or 4 gigs of ram in there and then you're done so the Monaro project I kind of realized they're running into a brick wall they needed to move the blockchain from Ram into a database so just some stats January 2015 the block came was five gigabytes in size when they put it into the LM DB database suddenly the RAM usage dropped to only ten megabytes and just not only was using ln v be saving memory for them it actually saved time all right even with their memory only database which which you would expect a memory only data structure should be super fast right it should be a zillion times faster than this but in reality maybe because that code just wasn't all that great it was much slower all right so even with only five hundred eighty-five thousand blocks it took four point two hours to sync that whole chaining whereas with LM VB at a million blocks it took only ten minutes so using Ellen DB was that was a huge step in ensuring scalability for this block chain I just measured this a couple of weeks ago I've got a first-generation Raspberry Pi it can sink the whole block chain it will take a couple of months okay so one of the things that that bugs me a lot right because I mean I come to software from an efficiency standpoint okay primarily I mean I also working security and I understand the trade-offs there but you have to understand that these these two needs these two demands are completely opposed to each other right to get Network privacy and anonymity you have to slow down network performance a whole lot because you're sending traffic through multiple hops instead of just sending it by the most direct path you know to get on chain privacy and anonymity you're sacrificing a lot of performance and efficiency because your transactions are so much larger now to carry this extra data that obscures the original amounts and the original addresses right there's there's a tension here that I don't see a quick resolution to and and this becomes more important over time all right if you look at these money supply emission curves you see that they draw these things out to the year 2050 okay baby the bitcoin guys believed that bitcoin would be the money of the future and everybody would be using it you know 30 years later and I don't think that's really a valid viewpoint if if you listen to some people you know they're saying we're gonna have colonies on Mars by 2030 okay now if that's true it could happen you know you on musk is going to Mars that means the currency of the future must work at interplanetary scale and bitcoin won't do it but Mineiro actually won't do it either right so what we have today is only the rough beginnings all right nothing of none of the technology that we use today is still gonna be viable 10 or 20 years from now it's gonna be completely different you know we may still call it Manero but it's not gonna be based on the same code as we're running today all right all right so the final takeaways reitman an arrow is the world's first cryptocurrency that actually behaves like currency it actually behaves like money you know it's fun jumble it's private it's anonymous when you spend it you don't give away any extra information about yourself the design of Manero didn't come out of nowhere all right it did benefit from observing bitcoin studying bitcoin and seeing all of its flaws and saying hey look we know how to fix these and it does work today but you know it's only one step there's there's there's a long revolution ahead of us yeah yeah yes the blacklist exists because of those other hunky forts all right basically
you know it's not the same as we talked about a Bitcoin blacklist basically we're saying here are a couple of outputs that have been used on on another chain that forth from the narrow chain and for you to use them could be are for you to use them as decoys in a valid transaction would be dangerous yeah right sure because the Bitcoin blockchain is stored in Google leveldb and that sucks okay as an actual answer all right in L&D be right the design is it's fully transactional which means every right is actually atomic okay level DB is not a transactional database you know they they say that they support atomic rights but that's not actually true okay so I actually have a very little respect for level DB for a number of reasons but mostly because they lie they misrepresent its capabilities okay here's here's the thing thing like LM DB stores all of its data in a single file okay within a single file it is possible for you to do a sequence of operations that shows up in one one atomic incident level DB stores its data in multiple files it is actually impossible for you to update multiple files and have that become visible in one atomic instant there are always multiple interview intervals of time where you can see intermediate states okay and it's those intermediate states that trip you up if the machine crashes while it's in the middle of updating a sequence of files the database gets corrupt because there's no atomic update yeah earlier you mentioned new there's no speaker earlier you mentioned Bitcoin had trouble changing you know something as simple as a hard-coded value how do you see Manero you're talking about even changing proof of work in the narrow which seems like a much grander change how do you see governance playing into that and and do you see an eventual Bitcoin if ocation of the governance where you know you kind of move into a comfortable state it's worth too much money you can't make these changes without having big big problems or worrisome that's a good question and I'm not sure I know the answer to that I would say eventually it probably will get to that point okay but we're not there yet you know right now everybody understands this this is an experiment everybody understands we upgrade every six models okay so that's that's just you sign up for that kind of turn when you participate you know every six months this is going to change eventually we may slow that down and say okay every one year this is going to change and then it may slow down even further after that but we're not there yet yeah why the transaction why are they so slow there's there's a lot of factors that feed into that okay database performance is an element all right they're using a slow database Bitcoin transactions are slow or for Network propagation reasons all right you know they're they're trying to throttle the transaction rate so that a single transaction has time to propagate to the entire network all right it's a large network that's that's gonna be slow there's a lot of factors
okay would Manero have the same issues
with slow transact high speed maybe all right you know my personal belief is that we cannot have a single global cryptocurrency all right the example with colonies on Mars should prove that to you we actually need some kind of sharding or fractional networks right that's that's really the only way to keep performance up and cover large-scale yeah
well you know we we have worked going under way to support pruning for the block painting so that that'll you know reduce the size and the future does that answer your question or was it a different question yeah oh right but the Monaro network itself is not working on storing carpet rarey data right we want to store financial transactions and nothing else but there there are other you know side chains that could do that in the future yeah well okay does blackballing constitute an attack gun fungibility but creating the transactions that needed to be blackballed yeah the forking is certainly a threat you know I mean otherwise we wouldn't have had to go to the step of blackballing you know and and we we had to warn people look if you're using you know X M C or X mo or xn be whatever the heck they all were if you if you are using these things with your existing Manero wallets with your existing coins you know you're going to be putting putting all of the network's at risk and the other yeah what yeah what what can we do to help adoption of Capri yeah start writing code start integrating it to the apps that you care about you know all of all of this is volunteer work so whenever somebody says I want this to happen they just do it or it won't happen yeah right right right since every ring signature has a key image you can actually detect that yeah yeah okay so at one point in time for a glorious eight months I had a company called Manero direct that allowed you to purchase Manero using dollars euros pounds whatever alright we we've shuddered that company for the moment because our payment processor got acquired by another company and that other company had weird policies towards cryptocurrency so we couldn't continue with them now in the meantime you know I personally still use cracking down right and me I mean I use them because I can buy directly with euros or oh one more wait more one more what am i working on next at the moment I'm actually trying to get Ellen bb10 out the door and one of the interesting features that we've added in one dotto is a database level encryption and part of the reason that feature exists is so that we can start moving the Monaro wallet into LM DB and keep all the data encrypted [Applause]
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