Plone for managers: how to achieve good ROI for your organisation
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Plone Conference 202229 / 44
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Turtle graphicsSelf-organizationWebsiteDigital rights managementSoftware developerExpandierender GraphPhysical systemInformation managementSet (mathematics)Elektronisches MarketingService (economics)Online service providerCore dumpEvoluteInternet service providerSpeech synthesisWeb applicationSurface of revolutionAcoustic shadowDecision theoryEndliche ModelltheorieMultiplication signGoogle AnalyticsInternetworkingPublic domainShared memoryTerm (mathematics)Dependent and independent variablesStack (abstract data type)Military baseOcean currentExtension (kinesiology)Different (Kate Ryan album)Self-organizationContent (media)Parameter (computer programming)Complex (psychology)INTEGRALDigital photographyText editorMereologyInformation securityTotal S.A.Product (business)BackupArrow of timeObject (grammar)Design by contractSoftwarePoint (geometry)Web 2.0View (database)Projective planeWave packetTouch typingStress (mechanics)Scaling (geometry)BitChief information officerUniverse (mathematics)Presentation of a groupLoginPattern languageComputer hardwareRevision controlAsynchronous Transfer ModeAnalytic setCentralizer and normalizerTheory of relativityPerfect groupTelecommunicationDisk read-and-write headPersonal digital assistantInverse elementMultiplicationContent management systemFlow separationMixed realityFilm editingCanadian Mathematical SocietyFunctional (mathematics)Sound effectReduction of orderArithmetic meanTwitterExpected valueBlogBuildingSheaf (mathematics)MathematicsPlanningRight angleAffine spaceThermal expansionReal numberChainSingle-precision floating-point formatWeb pageInformation technology consultingEnterprise architectureDirection (geometry)Client (computing)Online helpLine (geometry)ImplementationAnalytic continuationCASE <Informatik>Structural loadBoss CorporationMobile WebSocial classVirtueller ServerOffice suiteFactory (trading post)Thread (computing)Process (computing)Module (mathematics)Chemical equationFood energyPeer-to-peerEqualiser (mathematics)Limit (category theory)NumberInformationGroup actionForcing (mathematics)Human migrationExtranetComputer fileOpen setOpen sourceCodeIdeal (ethics)Expert systemFreewareData centerCartesian coordinate systemServer (computing)Selectivity (electronic)Information systemsComplete metric spaceSoftware maintenancePairwise comparisonEnterprise resource planningFormal languageCloningConnected spaceNormal (geometry)Arithmetic progressionPareto distribution2 (number)SubsetAreaRootCausalityDocument management systemRule of inferenceDampingStudent's t-testObservational study1 (number)Information privacyData storage deviceConsistencyPower (physics)Stability theoryDevice driverPosition operatorStaff (military)Shift operatorPotenz <Mathematik>Web browserHypermediaUsabilityGreatest elementComputer configurationComputer animation
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Public domainService (economics)SoftwareStack (abstract data type)Computer hardwareText editorDigital rights managementLimit (category theory)Chemical equationMereologyStack (abstract data type)Content (media)SoftwareText editorAnalytic setService (economics)Sound effectEvoluteSurface of revolutionComputer animationMeeting/Interview
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Variable (mathematics)Data modelShift operatorSelf-organizationTerm (mathematics)Self-organizationTerm (mathematics)Shift operatorScaling (geometry)Software developerObject (grammar)Endliche ModelltheorieBitComputer animationLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Plane (geometry)Term (mathematics)TelecommunicationLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
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Term (mathematics)Process (computing)BitService (economics)SoftwareProduct (business)2 (number)TelecommunicationComputer animationLecture/Conference
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Term (mathematics)Software maintenanceProjective planeSoftwareSelf-organizationRevision controlMultiplication signPhysical systemImage resolutionTelecommunicationInformation privacyData storage deviceConsistencyBackupDigital rights managementComputer animationLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Greatest elementUsabilityFunction (mathematics)Physical systemInformation securityStability theoryTerm (mathematics)Computer configurationComputer configurationStability theoryUsabilityInformation securityPhysical systemFunctional (mathematics)Software maintenanceInformation systemsGreatest elementComputer animation
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Term (mathematics)Information technology consultingMultiplication signChief information officerDependent and independent variablesSelf-organizationDirection (geometry)Digital rights managementMereologyWebsiteLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
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Social classDigital rights managementLecture/Conference
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Surface of revolutionText editorWeb pageModule (mathematics)Set (mathematics)WebsiteLecture/Conference
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Turtle graphicsSelf-organizationMultiplication signSpeech synthesisAcoustic shadowLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:39
Hello everyone, please please get to see it
00:46
Who is Fred who doesn't know Fred he's an active contributor He's a trainer and he's he's been there for a long time. And today he's gonna talk about Plune for the manager in manager side of you
01:02
Please okay. Thank you. So is this audible? Yeah. Okay, then I'll talk a bit louder. So welcome Yeah, there was a bit of clickbait. I must admit but this is a talk I have been planning or thinking about for many years to give So who knows what arrow is?
01:22
Return on investment. So this is a typical manager talk Thingy in management if you pay a lot of money for something every year you want to have it earned back So that's why this point of view like okay, I in a recent podcast I said, okay, I want to talk about everything about the software. I didn't manage that
01:40
So let's do again My name is Fred van Dyck. I've been Working with using Plone as an end-user starting somewhere 2001 2002 When I was still working in a model toy train company Grew from from changing it tinkering with it Moving to to a Plone integrator service company in 2007 and since then I've been slowly
02:04
Being becoming more active and everything Erica said for him like those famous people you see for it's for me the same I was at Really nervous at the beginning seeing all those famous people building this cool software And here I am 22 years later people know me and I start giving business talks
02:22
So I'm actually I'm an integrated developer trainer project manager and I have an opinion so big disclaimer. I will exaggerate This is not only about my own customers I will freely talk over my talk So you're actually looking at my talk notes and this is not a very cool fleshy shiny presentation because that would be a bit too businessy
02:44
I do talk about Plone for for larger organizations here and for Organizations that have grown that have multiple departments that have actually that need managers to manage the site that have teams That have to expand to other countries But then again plan for growth of your site you never know, I mean so many
03:04
Organizations that started using Plone 10 15 years ago With a small website now have a huge international presence and still use Plone so my motivation is this is That of course Plone is all Plone is mature Plone is enterprise and with age also comes
03:25
a Drop out comes as they call in English turn And then what I noticed a lot is that often The software gets to blame Once a software system any software system not just a website or CMS, but also an ERP system or a financial system or whatever
03:48
Doesn't work anymore for the organization when Often very often the root cause for the for a problem Plone in this case is not a software but it's more organizational or communication or management issues for years starting small growing a bit wrong expectations and
04:07
Then As an effect the software gets outdated people are get unsatisfied They can't do some things anymore and that that's where then of course the software gets to blame
04:22
But it's not where it starts. Also. This is not about Plone the same could apply for any Software system also open source system like WordPress or Joomla or Drupal or any other system, but we'll get to that later so goals I've seen this happening to a lot of Plone sites Last I said Plone is old. So we of course we have new people coming in
04:44
We have new organizations coming in we have organizations and users dropping out. But as I said, there is some some there is probably Some reason behind it which is not exclusively about the software or about features or about old Python versions or? About developers people can't find there's often more to it. And
05:04
as a kind of Double-edged sword maybe as I also had said in the introduction of my talk on the on the Plunk on website You can't really blame the managers, I mean they're only trying to manage with the limited resources that they have We as a Plone community are
05:23
predominantly feature functionality software Cool stuff keeping up with the Joneses the other CMS is keeping up with a huge ecosystem and the internet at large online We Maybe we should tell them and advocate a bit more about this business side also as a Plone community that
05:43
hints, I think to marketing and sales and Has always been a challenge in an open source community that is completely focused on an open source process without a large backing Company as you see with a multiple number of other CMS's
06:02
so The executive summary problem and solution Revolution evolution in general you could say for any system for every any business process if you can avoid revolution and if you can Implement evolution. It's almost always better
06:22
Because it's very bad if you have to replace a complete system with something else because it's not just the software system. It's not just The IT it's not just the hardware and software It's not just a tooling But it's the whole organization using it and you have to retrain all those people you have to negotiate
06:42
contracts you have to do package selection of Another solution of another external company of another thing that there's so much around only this software part that when you Blame the software and start a revolution It's almost always more costly than if you have a system or a business process or a software system or a website
07:04
That slowly adapts and extends to new requirements There are less surprises There are steady investments. There's limited stress and a huge issue for any system process and also a software system is internal company
07:21
organization knowledge and retention of that knowledge People slowly come and go but if you have to replace a full system Just imagine the cost And yeah, that's the problem ICT and the web are and have been revolution for the last 25 years if you look back at
07:41
Plone 21 years ago It was like this this small thingy on top of an application server where you could manage some some sites and pages through the web But we have grown The whole internet has grown it's becoming online marketing e-commerce marketing automation, so it's it's one revolution after another
08:03
And then when of course if you look back at plone when the pioneers and oh This is cool and new and this is careful. Be careful and and it's all small and incubator It's it's still friendly, I mean imagine that with plone the first settings. Oh you want to create an account on this website
08:22
Sign up create start creating your own content. I mean we can't do that anymore for the last 16 years I mean with people start putting bit torrents files on open extra net plan systems, so the whole chain of trust the whole complexity everything has grown and
08:40
Also when when the big money comes in when when the big stakes come in and other companies want to also earn money there's also of course a kind of Hidden motive to to proclaim revolution and to say oh look you need to switch you need to buy our system our system Now software is better follow the money
09:01
So the main responsibility I think as a manager if you look at managing a CMS system a software system or any Business process is is to focus on evolution and avoid revolution if it's unnecessary Do of course experiment and innovate Do try small things, but don't bet your company in your organization on hype
09:21
I think there's this this saying that goes around for a few days years already from Jeff Bezos. This says I Don't want to make any bet the company decisions. You should not make them everything should be smooth and if you do that It should be high But it's it's very risky And then the old other adagio your website and online presence is not a project with a beginning and an end date
09:44
It's a continuous effort and also Almost all organizations. I mean ten ten years ago. We were like yeah, but your website is not your core business process so you can You can outsource it if it's fine. It's just your information thing, but that's not true anymore
10:03
Everybody has moved online look at the last two or three years Any organization that says our online presence is a side effect is a side thingy and we can go along nicely Without it. I mean those are I think a limited number of companies that sell products in the real world
10:21
That do but I mean even McDonald's or even everybody else selling selling products and services I have to go to their online Website and web shop when I walk into a McDonald's and I want to buy a burger They don't want to help me at the counter They only want to to shove the food at my in my face after I've selected everything on their e-commerce website
10:43
so Online is there to stay. This is not a surprise. I think for people I mean and blown has been here around like I said for 21 years blown is 21 years of evolution We're here to stay blown can be maintained expanded extended upgraded
11:00
and if you're willing to participate in the software the community and make steady investments and understand the software ecosystem at large Then we'll help you So that was the executive summary. Thank you, and I'll now leave But so now it's got messy So so far, I think most people will will somewhat agree
11:23
But who doesn't agree with executive summaries especially written by consultants because they're always Aimed to please So I'm now going to I try to come up with with a central theme or some golden thread or some model or thing How I should do the rest of this talk and I couldn't it's it's just there are too many things that told me so
11:46
This was both maybe sound and come like a rant, but as I said, I want you to trigger people to motivate people And I think in all our sales and marketing And also in how we are have been communicating with our clients
12:02
I'm speaking out for myself as an integrator But also how we have been speaking as a community the marketing material. We have been too nice. We're nice people We want to please we want to extend we want to support and we don't warn Companies and we don't warn organizations and we don't warn managers. I think often enough
12:22
for the hidden treasures that they have with blown and the hidden treasures that they have with Spreading the work between themselves in-house and between spreading the work a bit on an external integrator Depending a bit on a community and Go for the long term instead of going to the short term, so that's
12:41
My disclaimer again for the rest of the talk here the world according to Fred Separate topics, but all related. So if you want to talk to a manager who doesn't know anything about software who doesn't know
13:00
a Lot about the details who doesn't want to know a lot about the details because he has done that He's already maybe a bit older has done all the stuff and now he's over viewing things Just look at the total cost of ownership and my definition there is not maybe the researched one. It's not the the university or the McKinsey definition, but what does it take to run an online presence or an online marketing for a growing or an already larger organization?
13:26
Of course the software stack which I try not to talk about too much but still there you have to host it somewhere It has to run somewhere and it has to be stable then of course you have to have content and This may be signed like sound like the biggest open door that there is but we have built websites for large
13:45
Organizations for years only to come back to them Half a year or a year later and notice that there are 20 pages there and there's two people Now sometimes editing it and we've built all these nice people. We've had these huge processes of
14:00
Talking with people what they want what they should do and they They don't If you don't have content on your website Then you're missing out on something then again the content is probably not there in those cases because people forgot to and organizations forgot to really invest in their editors and in their
14:20
end-user support in their onboarding in explaining people how things work because I mean online editing is easy, right it's just logging in title Subtitle page and continue
14:50
Yeah, that's right Yeah, so so the alexander lechelle mentioned Many organizations are under missed under estimating or over estimating the capabilities of their own editors and users that are throughout the organization and suddenly become
15:06
responsible for a part of the website or a part of the of the organization's goals and Then like I said before and has to do with this. It's no longer just a website There are a lot of 30 third-party tools and software integrations you need to do nowadays
15:21
To to keep and have this website running and know for example, which content you have to create to know What your visitors like where they want to go to there's this whole online marketing and communication if our time I'll get into it, but there's this this funnel thing you want to entice people there's there's a lot of marketing cons if you don't do that if you just throw your products on the
15:44
website and some services and Then the last thing I've noticed which is is I think the the less the least visible But the most dangerous one is that in for very large products and very large websites and very large stakes
16:01
There is almost always too little management attention and involvement It's like and we'll get to that later But that's that's really a pain point that can linger and can can can cause a very big website projects I've been running fine for years to slowly fade into the ditch and into failure mode and
16:22
Then you can't skip any of these like I said a website without content is nothing Putting some content there and then don't have any editor or user support or updated content. That's another thing We created cool news sites. We've created blog site sections. We've we've done it all and then When the users don't get time that the end users the editors don't get time in their organization to actually edit
16:45
Create and maintain the content It doesn't work a software stack with outdated hardware goes wrong with outdated software Goes slowly into problem. So you you can't skip any of these these major sections and you also
17:02
Have to balance them Skipping and getting back If you just if you're if the total cost of ownership for your whole website of these are included There might be some other things that real business manageable said but for me, this is the main part If 30 to 50 percent of your total expenditures go to software stack and hosting something is wrong
17:23
Because that means you're probably spending too little on The content on your editors on your editor and user support on on Braille on on boarding Probably don't educate people about how your analytics software work so they can see for themselves which content works
17:40
Which content doesn't which click paths go through their site? and Then if you spend less Then that amount on software stack and hosting you limit the effectiveness because then slowly the software and the tooling and the third-party tools And services go stale and as we already said the world around us
18:01
Has been evolution revolution for 20 25 years you have to keep up And of course, you don't have to do these all in-house and you don't have to have expertise for everything I'll get back to that later. There are many Corporation modes possible But you should organize and pay attention you should organize these domains and you should make sure that they are covered for the long term
18:29
So there are there are different operational modes. I mean, I've been an integrator for for Like what is it 12 15 years now assessed before that I was an end-user before that I use different CMSs at company
18:41
So I've been using of course. It's a bit like like preaching. Of course my own beliefs here You can of course do everything with an in-house team and that's where I've How I've grown up and just start using software you can of course have a mix Do everything in-house but hire external developers to support your in-house team
19:02
You can hire external developers or integrators for for the full software stack and hosting always Speaking for the organizations having their websites as a precaution always separate the hosting of your website and People maintaining it that if one of to Go bankrupt or you have an argument with or whatever
19:24
The stuff keeps running If the hosting company goes down your developers can move quickly to somewhere else if your developers have your development agency or support Agency has an issue The software is still running on the hosting a provider for which you as your organization have the contract and you paid for
19:43
And then of course, there's also the model of the full service development a software agency And even if you go further there's nowadays software as a service where you just pay for per month for an already ready system analytics software marketing automation CMS headless
20:01
whatever This was only the software stack and hosting you can have the same Corporation styles and things for all the content and I've seen Many of those as well a full service public relations communications agencies who also Provide for example the software or will also specialize in in online marketing or social media or writing content content marketing
20:25
But personally I find it always hard to believe that for any reasonable large organization with 50 to 100 people people working there and being focused on selling products and but also services or And having to explain their stuff. I find it always
20:42
Yeah a mystery that you would outsource that completely to some external organization For the long term, I mean if you have to start something fine But I'm talking here now about five to ten to fifteen years of maintaining your online presence as a large organization
21:01
So spoiler as I said already It's my belief that a cooperative mode or model between in-house work And a variable but consistent external assistance is the most flexible model with the least risks So still talking business talk here, but I mean you can't know you can't do everything But if you don't stay involved yourself
21:20
If you don't get your feet wet as management as people contributing content as if I hope that your own People in your organization know best what the organization's goals are and how to promote them and how to be there in the for the long term You can of course shift resources you can you can start
21:42
Externally then move stuff in-house you can Grow in-house and as soon as there's a certain scale and you have to pay 120 euros or 150 euros for a developer to also provide end-user support and He does that for half of his working day That's a bit expensive
22:01
You can move that stuff in-house or you can there are all kinds of models there So my personal belief is is do a mix but get involved Okay, that was still Not too shocking. I think any objections pity
22:22
So let's continue at least answer pictures I took last week while doing my daily walk of half an hour or an hour if we got every other day So the mushrooms are really growing fast in the Netherlands. I sprinkled them a bit through So The web has grown from a technical IT tradition most of the time and the first website started as research projects
22:45
It was new unknown incubators. I got into touch with the internet when I When I went to university in 1994 and there was Netscape 0.9 there was Linux one and I learned so many from my fellow students at a study and study
23:01
Association of electrical engineering it was all hot. It was all new. It was all but slowly When online became mainstream and became really serious and important for organizations to reach their goals communication and marketing has taken over as the drivers buyers and users and
23:22
often those have also become the managing departments of the websites and have become The budgetary responsible people and should also then if you're budgetary responsible I hope you also want to be responsible for the knowledge and for the management and for the Yeah for managing the stuff not only say oh does it cost like does it cost 400,000 euros again this year? Okay?
23:46
Yeah, okay. We'll have to see you next year Okay, now I'm going to get nasty Something which is kind of an occupation occupational defect I've noticed that PR and communications people in their
24:03
Day-to-day work often have an attention span of one to three weeks Yeah, we giggle a bit. But but I don't mean this I say never get nasty, but I don't mean it like this But it mean it's I'm an IT guy. I'm all for stability. I'm all for for that's my my job
24:24
I mean, I'm a communicator second So marketing people tend to have a bit more because they were on campaigns and they want to to plug new new products and today More like three weeks to three months and then the campaign should end and we should see if you've got new new new leads And then sales can continue and and sell the software or the products or the services
24:43
And the IT department is like three months to three years. Oh That's nice. You want to buy a new system? We'll have to implement it. We'll have to support it We'll have to new people for that. We need to have upgrades. We need to have maintenance And we have like 20 other software Projects running at the time. So if you could wait for half a year before we can start with your project. That would be nice
25:08
And this is this is where many internal conflicts within organizations come from if you let IT people speak directly with communications people and The PR manager is only concerned with with a recent
25:24
With a recent publication issue or a communication issue and he has to solve something something very silly because The CEO said something very stupid online That that's their attention span and they don't don't care about backups. They don't care about
25:42
Overloading servers, they don't care about Privacy or or internal lobbying of the of the employees for for privacy. That's that's the IT department stuff. So It's mindset I mean to just put them very bluntly together IT departments care about storage about consistency backups
26:00
They can they care about connecting systems about monitoring those connections about Keeping data in an ERP system or a financial system and your website or a product information manager Consistent they care about security and PR and marketing are Focusing on other things So should your marketing manager be responsible for the website and these total cost of ownership domains I've invented
26:28
Then I would ask is the sales manager responsible for the ERP system Is the product development manager responsible for the ERP system is the finance manager or the CFO responsible for?
26:42
For the ERP system, which is nowadays in larger organizations almost always the the collection of the Relational and hardcore and this should really work business processes and and I've made a comparization comparison a few times now Many managers that have been there for a while now things still think as websites and CMS's of this little tiny nice
27:08
Manageable things that you can outsource and it's just a bit of content online and people will edit it but but if you look at the complexity and relations and the importance then I would say a CMS is has become almost as important as an ERP system. Maybe you should treat it that way and
27:29
Yeah, there's there's like I said that there's risk from from looking at a website or a CMS from PR marketing point Is future writers? Contagious affection of end users of any system who value functionality
27:43
and new options over long-term stability usability security and maintainability And there's this old joke I somehow learned Dutch I translated it but the safest IT information system is poured into concrete and then sunk to the bottom of the ocean
28:01
The safest IT or information system is poured into a concrete block and then sunk to the bottom of the ocean Unfortunately, it's no younger you it's no longer usable usability goes to 0% But that's a small price to pay for peace of mind of the IT department
28:21
So IT or PR marketing the truth is of course somewhere in the middle. It depends consultant answer Maybe you already have a CIO in your organization the chief information officer But it's a shared responsibility. And then as I already said, but which responsibility only budgetary because we don't have time for anything else or also financially and then if you're
28:45
Financially responsible almost always counts who pays these sites and I'll not go into that minefield Who has to pay for which part of the website inside an organization? That's for a next talk or maybe for a podcast Philip We've made announced. Maybe we've got some ground to cover
29:02
for the next year And also in a management layer the strategic and the direction and the long-term knowledge retention of those things if your Marketing manager is replaced every one or two years by the next interim manager We can start all over again short story for my years at Merklin
29:21
In the Netherlands, we have this strange thing where we have a center class coming at the beginning of December instead of the end Of December it's called center class So we have like two we have two center clauses center class and center clause the guest mom and that's why Of course one of the most happy yet. You've got pinata. Oh, no, sorry. That's the other
29:42
That's the other lens. Yeah, sorry my mistake You have a carnival. We also have a carnival Yeah, no So but very quickly every two years my chef and he even once dressed up as a center class and went to our headquarters in Germany in the beginning of November to explain to the export director and the export team that
30:05
All our money was made in between November and the 5th of December because our 5th December's in the class was the one giving presents to children and we made model toy trains So that was a huge business there Now, of course wait also very expensive trains and those were also bit sold sold for the customer in the end of December
30:26
But the export director was replaced every one or two years the team was replaced So what happened at our main factory in our head office main office and a factory in in Germany was that so around Between 1 and and 5th of December
30:41
They suddenly started to get very anxious and they started to collect all the things that already Had produced and they started sending all the ordered stuff like twice or three times or four times as fast In the beginning of December to be ready for my Naskeshaft as it is called in Germany That's when they make big money and we were again like too little too late
31:03
So and all our our shops got got the loads of trains and and starter sets for children everything On December the 6th or December the 10th and they were like, yeah already done it. We sold last year stuff Too little too late and that's what I mean with even with his sales or with other things
31:21
I've learned from the past my bus dressed up as sinter class just to remember other departments or other Parts of the organization about look it works different there and we had to explain it Every time again, and this is a very funny silly story, but this happens for almost everything when people move around in our organization
31:41
so continue with that you can of course and you should use external developers and integrators for your software stack and hosting and it's fine, but As I've seen as an integrator myself time and again and again I'm also becoming responsible for end-user support. I'm
32:02
Whenever the organization itself Cannot manage this for some reason being Internal mobility being budget cuts being whatever because senior developers and consultants like me are in really expensive help desk Don't do that. You can save a lot of money there with any system with any open source system
32:22
Use your power users inside the organization for peer support let them help each other And that's also difficult I mean for myself it took me quite a while to to learn how to make screencast But have a first-line help desk inside your organization always for systems like this And I'm of course, I'm not not talking
32:41
Small startup which selects blown and with three or four people they do it and they're buying They hire an external developer and do some stuff. I'm talking about larger scale here in the end Yeah, and and this is a bit of the background like I said those Managers and PR and communication professionals
33:01
Tend to be more mobile on the job market in their career. I'm going to put it nicely like this They do gigs of one or two years and then they move on to the next company They learn a lot they implement that again And I'm exaggerating here again because that has also happened on the IT IT market IT professionals are also much more mobile
33:20
But my impression still is that this started already like 10 or 15 years ago more in the communication professions and These these people if you want to if you're working at a large organization Then you don't want to get too attached to the organization
33:40
You don't want to get too attached to their software systems. You don't want to get too attached to the processes You don't want to get too involved in being the single point of failure so those people prefer to give assignments to external agencies or to give to other people because then they're free to go whenever the project or a Campaign or their responsibility or the goals they were asked to implement as an external consultant are done and they move on
34:08
It's a bit of a shame if that same communication professional was also The management person responsible for The global direction of where your website or your system and all your investments and your upgrade plans and your expansion plans
34:26
Had in his or her mind and the good old IT minute IT minded webmaster with With the woolen socks and the t-shirt and the things that was at a university for like 10 10 years I saw them while I was studying at my university at the IT data center
34:44
That was even in in the same building as the mathematics department Why? of course Because there's an affinity there we to be precise to be secure, but those people have become a minority So knowledge retention in organizations is is important. It is one of those TCO things
35:05
that that The CEO or the management team itself because most of time it's it's people just below this in the organizational chain of command Don't realize this and it's all getting very difficult
35:20
Of course the same goes for for knowledge retention of your editors and support like I already said Keep those TCO domains in balance invest in your employees and knowledge provide backup of knowledge and experience of course You can lean on your external developer on your external integrator on your Agency that helps you, but if you leave everything to them
35:42
Because it's going over your head. You're in for trouble in the mid to long term so when the going gets tough and That's what we've seen For especially for the last years, but also longer whole society is going out of its mind Do more with less efficiency faster get time to market budget cuts staff reductions be lean and mean
36:08
We've had a pandemic if anybody noticed which caused that like as well But at the same time we have to do more and we have to pay attention to risks and opportunities And I have this feeling of almost exponential increase of complexity for the last 10-15 years
36:26
Who hasn't good nobody should raise their hands Sometimes try the inverse. I mean there's a technological push. I'm not going too much into that but Browsers JavaScript following up with responsiveness. We've had mobile we have web apps now
36:43
Development in itself update or purge then there's that perish. There's connected network systems Everything has become connected not only us worldwide, but also all the IT systems and separate Systems that we had like the separate bookkeeping financial system the separate website the separate product information manager
37:03
the separate Look at ERP system trends, but also online we have to do Google Analytics or Matomo. We had a document management system We've seen Google tech managers Matomo tech managers for implementing all those nice Online marketing profiling activities marketing automation at itself and then the whole conversation
37:27
Commercialization push as I already mentioned Online is now an integral part and and for almost every organization Is the central thing and Of course, I didn't forget legal GDPR for the last five years has been an enormous complexity
37:45
So sounds like a perfect storm in slow motion and we're not done yet because we still want to grow We have to grow we need to grow So this is madness. So it's logical that for many managers. They are looking Outside and I no longer want to do stuff in-house because it's it's going over their heads
38:05
And doing everything Outsourcing most of these processes is of course a low risk when it's only for the short term As I started my presentation with we're in here for the long term and we want to have evolution and not revolution so It's a bit of a conflict
38:21
Yeah, I've seen thanks. I have to go very fast now. Can I speed up? Sure, so if you start doing doing stuff If you outsource stuff and you're the interim marketing manager, or you're only part of your organization You don't have to pay the bills, but your organization pays the bills. That's nice
38:42
But you get continuous billing per any Possible metric that an organization can figure out and is it fair pricing because once you're locked in there There's a data lock in there's a lock in of all the connected services to all those other SAS online Services for which all you have to pay every month and of course, you're free to leave any time
39:01
But where are you leaving to? So gray patterns I've also seen in the last years is that organizations tend to prefer outside Organizations over their own technical staff because of the position on the financial balance sheet If you have your own employees or staff you have like multi multi-year Responsibility to paying their salaries. It's in many countries hard to get rid of employees
39:27
so Those are nasty Dixie mostly the financial manager and if you just invest some if that's money in an external company It's called investment costs. And yeah, you can quit those costs any time
39:41
It's not like you can mean you're stuck with your employees, but you can fire Or ditch your external Supplier any year because you don't need a website next year, right? this does a whole Madness, this is this so managers also sometimes prefer to manage contracts instead of people because they feel more secure because they can sue
40:04
Those external companies if they don't perform when if you actually start looking in those contracts then most External providers can cancel their contract within 12 months So you've got one year to move from one external supplier to another and completely rebuild your website
40:24
We had to do that a few years ago We had to rebuild a problem site from scratch in one year where there was no documentation Which was externally hosted because the previous agency built all their custom code Which they afterwards said you can have all the custom code But yeah, we built it on a commercial CMS with a license and we lost the license. So
40:44
We'll shut down your website in 12 months. Can we help you migrate to another system? And then there's another thing I'd like to point out is a dark pattern is venture capital and the software lottery So people with a lot of money nowadays Invest a few millions in like 20 to 50 software startups in the hope that one of them
41:04
Becomes a unicorn and will make them rich With a billion and it's almost always all sauce, but once that startup runs out of money What do you think happens with the software that was developed? Or investments want to see return on investment after a while in those startups So the free tires disappear cheap ones become expensive
41:23
New payment rules get invented and you're stuck with it sauce thing. And well, you've got 12 months to move to somewhere else If you want to cancel if you can cancel the contract I mean, of course you can cancel the contract almost every month, but then you've got a month to move to do something else And this is this is something I see with with has worrying me for a lot over the last years also with Plone
41:43
Is that? Yeah, this is like anti-competitive things going on I can't compete with a venture capital funded startup that gets twenty ten millions or five millions Over over one or two years to build a competing CMS where they have done an enterprise model or when you really want to use the stuff
42:06
We as of how how are we going to compete as a plan community with that? Mean it all it's all free old-school Companies like us and software projects that focus on steady slow evolution and want to get fair fairly paid for the work They do we cannot compete there
42:23
Don't skip that going to skip that Well, if you go to a full surface company a full surface agency pay attention to the contract because it might seem safe for you to expand everything to Let them do everything but watch out that you can you can still
42:40
When you get a disagreement with an external agency, even if it's open source Open source is no use if the agency CMS is so custom that only the agency knows how to maintain or upgrade the system And then you're screwed again so In the plumb community. We also have a diversity of small integrators that provide and we also have larger agencies
43:02
Integrators that also provide full service But what I've seen over the years that we have very very little rotten apples in the plumb community There have been a few which I shall not name Or things that you can mean this is a bit dubious with my impression is that because plumb is Going to Erica's talk is completely there's no big company
43:21
End of rent. I've got like two minutes to do my rest of the sale stuff, which I'm going to do very quickly So this is the blackhead thinking but does this all have to do with plumb in the plumb community and the tips for managers And this is where I think we should up our sales and marketing this the whole rent I just told we need to package that in a nice format
43:41
And in a much better business How you call it, tauke league Much better thing we had our life we had our love, but you don't know what you've got till you lose it I've only mentioned a few risks now and a few things I've seen happening to these projects This is from Phil Collins, by the way We need to tell that I mean plumb CMS is not ideal where messy progress takes time
44:04
But it reduces a lot of risk or simply doesn't have them if you stick to this cooperative model And you at least make sure that you host your own website on virtual service or anywhere where you've bought it and Make sure that you you know where you're going to and of course if you participate in time money or resource in the community
44:25
There's a 20 20 that 80 20 principle the Pareto principle But then a bit reversed you get 80% you give 20% that's a huge savings So I could do the polo and sales pitch now, which are prepared, but I've got like 20 seconds left
44:41
So I'm not going to do that But nobody forces you to upgrade pay higher fees or migrate or accept features or do anything you don't need You can all do it itself. The login is still there. You still have to retain the knowledge But it's I think that's a smaller price to pay than the risks you run if you outsource Too much or don't pay attention to your contracts
45:03
Can have one minute Okay, so bone sales pitch. I'll put this online and then people can can continue seeing this So this is the basic normal sales pitch we do But the basic premise is if you're a larger organization, you can scale horizontally you can duplicate sites You can get more users more traffic more whatever for pay for the actual cost and not some artificial billing
45:26
Which is especially problematic in the in the size world more languages more functionality and Global sharing is caring anything you develop for one of your countries if you have to scale out to multiple countries You can reuse those modules. You can reuse that knowledge
45:41
You can reuse the support you already have and expand to to other countries or to new product groups or to new services Skipping that skipping that skipping that skipping that skipping that This is an important one something. We don't doubt the horn too much is corporate social responsibility people and society if
46:03
Managers if organizations invest and use blown they are focusing on sustainability not on throwaway websites you have to redo every three or four years because your knowledge got out because you got in an argument with your provider You also invest in your local economy if you buy
46:21
Predominantly and get all your services from an American SaaS company That's not going into your local economy. That's not social Corporate Responsibility that's not helping your local economy or your people or your local society And there's of course the energy footprint you can with a bigger system. You can optimize your online presence
46:41
Nicholas and Bella made it made a very nice talk about it last year by going to photo by by constant Discovering the deal discovering ourselves So, of course, this is another one GDPR not going to do that too much agony for the last two years This I would have done maybe I do it next risk of taking responsibility. No, no, no, no, no
47:03
summary I made it So cover those TCO basis. I invented it in so balance them invest in them focus on evolution over revolution Prepare and embrace for change, which is what's in one of the sheets. I Skipped over and this is one the most important one
47:22
Please regular I talked with about Philip like two months ago We as integrators are technical but regularly scan your current setup reconfigure extend and expand I've had customers or people saying we should go to another system because we don't have a composite page Editor in our site. I think we did a whole TPN podcast last year just discussing four or five
47:46
composite page layouts We have them but if you don't ask your users regularly every year Can we change plumb because you you started with plumb five or ten years ago with a Certain set of requirements and features and we're now five or ten years later and plumb is so flexible
48:02
We have all these modules we can we can continue if you don't do that every year or every one and a half here or every eight months You're missing out. You're going to revolution in the end Thank you
48:23
Thank you. Thank you We have no time for questions, sorry, we have another speech right away So they didn't Put a small pose in it in the shadows So, thank you everyone and see you from putting in few minutes