How to build up a Python community and empower women

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How to build up a Python community and empower women [EuroPython 2017 - Talk - 2017-07-12 - PythonAnywhere Room] [Rimini, Italy] In 2012 not a lot of people were interested in Python in the relatively small city of Tirana, the capital of Albania. Even fewer girls were interested in Python. During (Jona Azizaj and me) our talk we will share the story of how we, a small but dedicated group of people, jump started the community in a small country like Albania and what other small cities and countries should avoid during their first steps in developing a Python community in similar conditions. Most important we will share tips and tricks on how to keep the Python spirit alive for a long time after the first enthusiastic steps, with the goal that our shared experience will help other communities to make the first steps or grow even further. Also nowadays we are witnessing that the number of girls involved in technical fields, especially development, is really low and we are going to present what as the influence on low participation of girls and the steps we should take to fix it
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the hello everyone think you very much for coming here I know that there are a lot of interesting sessions going on and think you for choosing nests and I increase the
program I finished my studies for international affairs and diplomacy and I'm the OpenLabs chairwoman analyzer Lorette also was about which in turn and stick speakers while I'm deeply involved in all almost all Mozilla a project that they're there and of also part of the Africa space the
hello I'm young man and so both of us are from Albania I'm currently finishing my studies on Business Informatics at the University of Tirana and both of us are part of the open that's hyperspace that it's the 1st hyperspace you know they not promoting only open source projects and the 1st project that i've been involved as you can see from my head his for dead and they became the 1st order ambassador in opinion but after that I wanted to be part also to other open-source projects like the he broke his for example that's why in the to get Member now and enter the eye and part of the difference of rigidity have and they did I won't rails good Summer of Code to in turn i will talk about it even later to give you some more information about
a in the 1st part of the presentation we're going to tell on how to build up the community we have tried and we we together thought with some historical and political uh sphere into the presentation slaves it'll be easier for you to understand that the committee actually it's important also to knowledge how was a history of of a country cell is here anyone can always
and I I think what what and walked Sylvania for 50 years in a very deep Communism were totally is elated from what happened in the world and we didn't know anything we saw that were the best and if all that to word the greatest in the world and that was the reason that everything is going on and all the planets where alveolar so um energetic our country in a totally new Toldo is an isolated sphere and make as
every communist country as you might also knowledge that the collectivism and the volunteer thing is a very plays a very big role in the society and the 1919 that things changed
and we call it now democracy that me we're not very sure about it the changed the name I think and so on 1992 we did like the 1st free elections and the the 1st you know free-free free president and the prime minister was into the country and we saw that were free
and so a lot of guys on to the main streets of Tirana to to be like the heroes and to to pull down actually everything that's in road build it for a couple of years the so
from the other extrem collective work went to the extreme into
individualism and some it was not done in a very small weight because it was like a very straightforward and we didn't have also the time to recover from everything that happened in economies amounts to to get out like even stronger so his went really fast
and that's affected a lot in the society and how things are really going in a country with a cooperative way of working the ground collaborative software development should be 0 right we thought actually the same that having the background as people were very warm into like working with each other that in the company's and were because that's what the system told them but we saw that when it comes to the volunteers or when it comes to the contributions for free have you been in people for people coming from post-communist country would find it easier and be better because they already has something before and they would know not to take all the benefits of it actually out when overlaps
let's 1st was created at the it was like on 2012 what we saw that it should be way easier to get people but it was so hard because people in our paint their parents told them don't work for for your don't contribute because that's what also incoming use and told us like they did the same but nothing that happens from it so when we 1st started the hardest basically was very new things like no 1 knew what to harvest these laws and the especially like for the floss projects that people were not fully into the tag and especially women especially those students and a 1st created it will fall at the word that they were just going to contribute and they will that with the you take actually nothing in return and it will be just a waste of time and it was so hard to convince them like we started the how the space of only for people like presenting to them like the major approaches that we did like free sample muzzle our uh orally notes Wikipedia and OpenStreetMap and now we're going in and creating the 1 of the biggest conferences in Albania related to that of floss of technologies and tourists out so need now going to
present to related to the women and you will also collaborate with each other during the presentation should so until now we were hearing how good is to have a little and local community uh how to build it and also how to and maintain the spirit of so the community can grow even more uh but if we see these communities so so where women part of it and if we see it but mostly related to class projects a survey that has been are done in 2002 found that only 1 . 1 percentage of the contributors were women and the more recent 1 and 2 thousand 13 of found that it only 11 percentage of contributors were women so as you can see the number of the number has been increased but even though but it's really a goal number because it's although 11 percentage of them and uh if we see at this 11 percentage only at 1 . 9 0 5 percentage of them are developers so this is even worse when we hear this number and at what if we see that did help users that has more than about 10 contributions from just a random sample for example only about 5 . 0 . 4 percentage of than the odd for me and uh among this women who joined other tech industry let's say that only about 56 so the percentage of them believe that by the mid career and if we compare this with the main but with mentors the double uh that tuition rate and if we compare both of them so if we see this diagram here up as we as we can see that the number of so this is compared with the number of the representer is being uh did have the percentage of whoever females it's really long and of the number of decrease this went at the contributions of increases so something is going wrong right so even if I have also some other statistics from the Picon conferences so the local ones so far the uh from 2011 active 2015 I receive a number of the speakers at the beginning was only 1 percentage of them and now we have speakers that say 33 percentage of them are women so the number it had it has been increased a lot but that's that the the mid 2014 and 15 and the number is the same in that so the percentage is the same so we had some issues here the first one that so that we can seize the invisibility and so this is related because when we are in the inside a community when we are at a part of the it sometimes people tend to say statements like they are not part of the community like they're not they're even eat full of course there are part of the trying really hard to be active and on the other hand we have the accession exceptionally some that it's so when people so sometimes they tend to when we see it when they see women's they're like all I you a developer error I assure warranty the uh C. statements like they are a really it's special creatures something really rare but try to not do but none of them because it's really of fancy 2 words of the women's how we have the gender essentialism as social expectations so the season related to because mostly when we think about women and men are we say that mostly there are good bits of so I I mean in general their mean that that good at working gets house doing God uh let's say it shorter hours and ments are mostly with their would acknowledges but even if we see inside the technologies that are inside the of the world of informatics for example mostly it they will let to them like the Community manager of the documentation pirates and boys smooth so because of that it's aware that they will be the developers appeal of course that they can do it but maybe it's it's not something that they are they want to do maybe they want to be the developers and community manager so try not to help them find what is good for them what they like and just let them do what they want and the last 1 is the sexualized environment sometimes so when they see that that's a girls part of a community of mostly in these few them like sexual objects and that's all but of course that they are there because they were they like technology they want to be part of the data and they can be really good developers up on the other hand to what we have done until now and when I say we I mean different communities are we had different initiatives and that our that had been a lot of years that has been created and they are doing a lot of the forest to try to have more women in spite of these communities and 1 of them is also
1 which is a project that a
laser and having to in it's composed of or of women or people from underrepresented groups a few more and to contribute more into the open source projects it's some of mainly improving women's visibility and involvement in a free and open source software isn't to Mozilla and it's free so everyone wants can purchase the than it there are also some channel that you can find and have more information related to this project stake in our website infeasible piracy telegram and also the mailing list and there is also the their project that they have a specific target with for the women so all of the dry women but it's like the something good the same with well most but it's there for the women that we have part of our community and not on the of course so the mission statement that we felt in the beginning is to provide a forum for all women in the dark community because sometimes for them it's easier when they are part of of of a forum that would be on the with growth and no 1 will say are what is this stupid question for example just google it so to avoid this far that's why we wanted to create a forum but only for them but provide a stronger voice for the uh women of the to their communities so if you have a problem you just need to speak up and not try to avoid it and I behave like nothing has happened and avoid segregation because of course so that to what we don't want to seperate them in absolute and note we just want to both of them and can collaborate with each other and of making the community even bigger and better and was what's the most important is to have fun so as I said it's about this subproject Internet is open to any women was looking for a support group within the that our community and not only in of but as we wanted to
have a more inclusive community it without
without to open a new 1 of that is called the diversity did here we have to also the dry activity data related to on that to think what to do as a team and how will we
work on different tests on the future so that's why we have our meeting this where we discuss this different thinks that about different subjects that people can have over a question that they need to to know how you can contribute for example you can find as on measure of it it's a platform that see similar with get hot but we use it only for the Fedora and of course that we have our be weekly meeting it was sold for example now we have our weekly meeting going so each Wednesday on a word 10 alone ideas think of that there are diversity so all
of those stars
uh to all the initiatives but there are even more uh also other projects like the wiki began his another 1 but that is called Women in red and white is 1 of the articles that say they're trying to add more articles more biographies for different women around the world around the world for different countries but still more people can know their history what they have done that and etc. so er something else that we can now show to other women in there and they can be acquired and stock given from the beginning that the EIA some different opportunities where 1 of them is out aware even better Christie was part of it you I treat she's actually enduring and that only for women and from 4 people coming from underrepresented groups to contribute and to start also the getting involved in the floors communities there was a part of
of this and the less round actually I was working with the Mozilla team for the participation women with the participation game of for the diversity and the inclusion so it's as a citizen of 3 months and ship and everyone can feel free to join it's also Google Summer of Code which is almost the same with some Outreach but it happens only during the summer and at at
actually it's more even for women and even for a man it's like more and more inclusive let's say but the students can work within these several differ like 4 months and it's only during the summer but
in the beginning they can apply like interested students and accepted students spend the
summer coding and there is also a mentor who is a mentoring them and then the they can submit the cold and they can share it so everyone can see whole How did work and how was all their work and you is also
part of the reals girls which is also an entire so the periods summer of quality and if you need to share that even I so it's not this year the applications had learned during except that February soul out of it it's a little scholarship only for girls so they can be even more part of different open-source projects and they can do something there uh during summer and they colds because it's only for golden and they can be part of different projects it doesn't mean that the it's only for a Ruby on Rails but it's also related to other programming languages that was
sold by here are some of the projects that were the state at the end of each person of called
apply uh at 1 of them and also here you can see by the what the ground you need to do what the ground you need to have a so you can be part of them so to be part of of the application of you needed to to find another person so
you can be a team together l and to you all you need to be at the same place every day during the summer but and were so after finding that and also the deciding with their teammates which project you need to apply and the maximum was on the 2 projects are you needed to find even coach this for each project you need to know about 2 coaches that can help your uh and of course that they need to know more about the project that you will be involved I end after finding the coaches of so that you will have the mentor of the projects are that you can never be part of it so all of the project
that for example this is making a we call decoder whole mix and the uh what yeah a working now we are part of mixed now but I don't know if anyone have heard about it and so next skeleton up it's similar let's say with job box but it's an open source alternative of 1st post their own count but this 1 is a fork of our own Celtic and what we are working now I it's related to the contact out at the decoder that mentation related to the conduct ups and what's we 1 of the let's say the things that you needed to have the beginning and were background was related to I would I do this but it doesn't mean that you need to be really advanced to be part of it because it can be even a beginner and you can because of soldiering the this scholarship you need to learn new things as so you're right you can see the sources that are working goes students coach mentor and supervisor and each day of what to do we we need that to publish their i were activity along what to have done of for each of which the for each states from Monday to Friday and this into this scholarship where land on 13 of September and it's a really good
opportunity for the for goes to be part of open source the projects but even to get beaten about it so we were talking and now that we don't have a lot of women in spite of these different communities but how is the situation in our community the in being so here is 1
of the events that we need to each user item of this thing that happened and so on October and sold the first one that we made for example look at each of the bonds that are part of our community and of the were talking about the project that they are part of it and how is the situation at their community and how given the other boroughs can be part of it
of another 1 is that we can Mozilla we can actually was like some and events that we had like a tradition happening ever February but of onto a fortunately we skipped this year and this photo is very visible that we have divided all men in 1 hard and women and the other part just offered for the
audience to see how is a situation like in this photo we're actually more women like this I can think that 70 per cent of the of the community even generally not you not only in this event but in general in the space would have more that women than men yeah and yet uh and
here we have all sky is Chris dimension even at the beginning of what is the conference that organising in of being out of the source conference a linear and it's 1 of the biggest 1 in bulk this is a group photo from our where the 4th edition that was this year on me and an have our 5th edition so I think would be a even more people part of that uh so as you can see the group photo but most of the participants were grants and even part of the organizing team of we were 12
people's all 8 of them were grows and the other part were boys but also all of 5 took most only is something that uh we couldn't fix it say maybe next with the speaker most of them were boys because most of the we had and from abroads from different open source projects so they could be part of it enter the here we have up to
develop spikes in the top uh so as I mentioned that I part of that around it it's the door I We have given the special group but only for Python people that I really into it and they like it and as you can see even here most of the participants that are part of the this meetup with
and this is 1 of the many years that that someone said for our conference because in the end we like the to talk with stickers that and had the their feedback so even other people that maybe you want to found the congested so all scan showed how growth can rub IT subjects and that free software is especially important in empowering of the topic for everyone
and basically the main reason is that we have uh um weakness and we found out is that the educational system makes more women and helps a lot women to going to the IT subject the because In all being that mentality thing that the I 2 subjects can offer you you can have a very good job after you finish your university for that informatics and also the this this is a very good like the reason and they like to go into those fields even because of of this think of the discovered that these to cover you think of technology in didn't Contel BS fostered came in other words a very developed countries for example in Europe or in United States like I think that the 1st computers Anabaena were like in the beginning of in 1991 on 1982 so it was quite a new thing for us and since it was new everyone wanted to go and see how things are working what was the and they wanted like to give it a try and see as of yet also erm we have and we have worked on and doing lakes some finding out some reasons on on how to encourage to encourage more women at 1st history could ever so the only thing that is very important to a presented later projects in the space and everything in a lot of the universities and to get more students working on it and to create a code of conduct so everyone can feel free and can feel even more even even better coming in hyperspace because they know that they're the chances for them to to to feel bad battery to have said something that is not the proper will below because there is a code of conduct is the most important thing that the very of very good thing is also develop contributors articles in the hackerspace not all the contributors are from i t and fields that not all of them studied informatics or maths or science generally there are a lot of students coming from geography history of of a new language or other universities and this is very important to value all of them even the contributors that only localized lectures later platforms into our local language we have to thank them like exactly the same way that we give the credits for those who can cold and to those who contributed in non technical side also its own organizing events and conferences also very good way for them like in a way to get more involved than to see that how the community work so I can just come start contributing since they will see that's where actually very open to everyone who wants to come and join so this solar resentation we used yeah we also starting an an initiative open diversity which aims to collect all this kind although those platforms for a diversity like pi ladies or a war Moser federal women to collect them in like 1 umbrella for all of them so we can come with the same voice and we can have the same conferences are events and we can share
experiences so to some of this was like our presentation we we did exactly in 30 minutes so everyone who wants to only and ask something please feel free or if you want to comment on something or anything go there and in Gujarat was that it was said it I think that the and thank you OK great so yeah as you said you user and then half an hour so we have plenty of time for questions University several tens of the gold yeah vector for took and I have 2 questions finding that the first one is according to your own experience so far uh what do you think companies and private companies what would be the best way of small scale to make their contribution to 1 of my opening right if you to woman of and as an example I run a small company inputs of the presence of women in the IT should in my country of invention uh it's pretty hard to recruit new women in the company because the pool of women um and achieving 90 degrees is quite low and so even though I would like to recruit more women I don't know a whole uh I could make the put bigger than so if you have any tips for stuff that we as a potential employer if we could do to improve the situation thinking for which country is what you find is problem imagine get commons in and so thank you for your question and we have actually seen also like the same and the same thing given in from from the other people are actually was suggest that inter ships are very very good wafer for them to recruit because if you're going to university and you presenter Company there there will be a lot of interested students and among them also women and I think that it will be a very good start for them because they will start as an inter ship which means that if they will feel a little bit and secure because it is like feel them probably they feel like not very red afraid of it was fairly even better I thing because they know that it's in mean the company there will be people that will mentor them and this will help to to grow in the in the professional field so I think that's recruiting in the university is plays a very good way and also going in and take events or I don't know if you come from a country other than hyperspace there because uh 1 of the examples is that in our hackerspaces are a lot of students or possibilities to that are looking for jobs and the company that wants to hire the just sending e-mail to the mailing ways that for example we want tangible words or I whatever they they need and that the people from the hyperspace they just start to apply and and among them there are a lot of people and then joined the company welcome OK I think we thank you for your talk and also think you for other initiatives in taking of being on an island in last like besides conferences have you thought about organizing some kind of competitions as well I'm also being in and what made me made me study completed sensors that treating by the National that of Informatics hi heading for that so then to the competitions will also be some like nice is the baking editing great in the the into a set of patterns and and so for example what we have done that our local hyperspace made it we had an Open Data Hackathon are related to the out as that were miscibility published on their website so we we talked with them so we could make the collaborations so we invited to a lot of growth to be part of it and it was kind of let's say of Christ challenge may be in that same of but it's not that it's our purpose because sometimes when the when it's a challenge they forgot to work as a team and the digits to work as an individual and it's not sort it's not something that we want to be part of of how can you be part of the open source community and of the the having that this spirit when they will be on the individual but mostly would try to have these challenges but not with the just something similar that is that's what we we're done they did our hyperspace for uh for these hackathons that you have done yeah OK actually I have also question so 1st I would like to read thank you will bring up uh this to the important or Baker and I also profit to appreciate the fact that there's so many men how in the room because usually this is a topic that somehow always often discussed among women as feet where women problematic here while it's much nicer to when it's actually discussed by men because it's agenda issue so my question instead was just a clarification on something that you short I Dennis anything the in the picture some of the schools and conferences that you shouldn't what's the end that you had a portal for the participants uh or it was just the the the the participants happen to be a more or less equally should distributed or we more we you mean for the photo that was at the Mozilla that yet someone here you have more than I want them with the land and the other 1 and afterward say was the worst ever moralist where people distributed or even with more women you know actually and it was an event that we did in the in the house space and everyone that it wanted to submit a talk to join and when the yeah or the workshop and when people started to register for the for the events so we witness and we saw that the er ror more women register and then man so when everyone was part of the event and when it started with all that in the end of it with the 1 in the solid and the end of it it's something very nice and it's not very in a common to see in such events anymore but women and men so it was actually just a photo of the event that we to make Yemen so that was not what are indeed no not like from the outset why nicest you know electing the party's going on on how it was just a random model that we call is be nice to be taken but we didn't we didn't know that that'd be the number of words let and if you do do you think that the fact that in your organizing committee there was a substantial number of women that uh this the degrees in part to the fact that the participants were actually more in they encouraged women participants were applied yeah so when people come to the hyperspace and they see that the other space is really the worst over a lot of people coming from a man like men and women have they people see each other and they feel very motivated when they see that their friends are people that living on the part of the of the communities so it is a very good I think it is a very good way to even to to motivate the others to go to become part of it so I think it's like the music a cyclists of motivation 1 request hi would you may be registered on practical steps to encourage more participation in a small group but say 20 people in 1 city were set as a large group like thousands of people in the so the and so you need to give more practical steps on how to increase the numbers of the women on yeah I mean it was a a specific steps work better for small groups and other steps were better for large I so um when the communities of the 1st cats and they're just few people coming I think that it's important to recruit people like and in the beginning when we started we have from our experience in the beginning were all the op let's like we wanted people to know about it and we we just like the it was like in the beginning at once to be honest like OK let's go and let's give presentation what is it and to invite everyone but when the Committee to grow it happens very naturally for overlaps to have more women than men but generally in community is 1 very the 1st steps and when they grow and so when for example you see that there are more men that obviously more men than women then in this point of the community you start to think that having some political out of you know steps to have more we mean on it and to do something even more practical but this happens only in the phase when you already have a builds later known as a stable community because it would be hard in the beginning to make tool to call for example example or to invite to have more women than men because it's still new ones there is basically no 1 but I think that's beside this there having the having like both by having the men and women the in the in the community should also be part of of the basics of the manifesto of a community also like to have diversity and to have everything I mean this for the coming years it starts from scratch and from the community that the like the just go and we see that there are like more men than women but of overlaps was not 1 of those examples because we're now trying to get we we're we're discussing and we just wanted to have more men now and in some in some events and so they are very vise this another situation perhaps a like in larger groups so 1 can have more organized a mentorship programs or yeah that's the 1 with the mean and make sure that the 1st sample of reference figures which are female like the keynote speakers ensemble is unless Commons here interval talk great to hear that the linear case in all the has developed a lot more you know in the past few years and not being from Bulgaria we hear anything you know and we're practically neighbors so had is great you here made such an amazing job you know promoting or that the initiatives in and everything and I have more questions so that in your experience know with the small group in small community how what would you consider no mistakes or maybe no what was do work out well you know in the beginning when you were feeling your way kind of building that community and and maybe some advice to what what are the such communities who avoid doing and I think that's something that really helped us at the beginning was that also founders like the people that we're part of of of the team Michael sulphonic ever were women and there were men and women together so when people and when women come to the Committee they see that the the those of funding are not like 10 men and she's the only 1 variances feel weird about having like even the organizing group even tho the core group having them diverse like men and women have lots of you very good and I think welcoming uh environment for everyone who wants once a join but actually we we we had also information for the Bulgarian communicating and and to me that you were there and the conference and we would uh this is all the more this is especially with 3 this so that you have a really good communities and is going to in things yeah further questions thank you very much for the talk i I was wondering if you had me perspective on what to do when there is already a community that is problematic creepy ourselves in positions of power and so on I I understand that if you're in the position starting at end it is much easier to stop the rural do you have any perspective on cutting it out when this already exists the have and so you mean I'm giving like any any advice for the life of our son communities all much worse than others you have an insolent into improving existing indices as opposed to building good ones from the the in terms of involvement more women right here thinking but yeah I think that it's also from our experiences I think that's what really works in those cases and what is really good steps we're going to have more women is to take them for actually to to give presentations on universities because it's very very good way to to let them know and another thing is probably in your in your country you find it hard to have a lot of women studying informatics so if you go and give presentations and IT university you might have more men but but you can also choose to go on conference that is for example for social sciences or give presentations also in the university of human uh of an old history or geography and that let them know that even people coming from those background can also contribute in communities like in any kind of way doesn't matter whether they know how to code the can start they give their contribution even by having different jobs and different kind of the of the of the of the poorly paid people cannot cover they will they be the I think that it would be a very good start for them to to come in the in the and and contribute in the community so I think that's a beside having the diversity of like women and then we should also have a diversity of the backgrounds of of women that are coming like not only from a specific fields I think but also from from the others and also we have had presentations even in high school and the high school is like I think it's a very good place because people there didn't really know what to do with their lives in late OK with no tomorrow like what I'm what I'm going to study so even if you go in the university is in high schools and tell them that text is really good or resemble coding is not meant for men but is also meant for women and given examples and give them cases where they can succeed I think that that they will feel very very motivated to go for it I came from and the non-technical the ground ends there in the beginning everyone was like like now don't go at the hyperspace they I probably will make it on my where going to do there but then after I realized that uh having said this in my high school like having people like teachers saying is that we see you can do it and you can go and contribute even in technical fields that really motivates people think it's something that said about different backgrounds I wanted to add that what we did for example last year we had the wikipedia we can so we had to the Saturday and Sunday dedicated only to Wikipedia of mostly not only for advanced but mostly for beginners and intermediates that the people of so we were before the organizing interview we went to the university of history I guess there in Albania cell we went to all of the students said that we show them for example that they would be part of the air they could learn the 1st step so how of for example about starting go opening an account etc. and the good of not only for example translate some articles related to history but even creating new ones because they know pretty well but the airfield let's say and they are really good at it so they know the details and that the EIA the right persons to write articles about it so you need to see what kind of of the of the errors that and you can see what you can go there and presented them because it it doesn't matter it's not that they need to do on the coding I mean there are a lot of things that that they can do but even at Wikipedia against that for example with them by down language so it's something that they can start to thank you yeah Greek to perhaps adjust to other 1 liter be of peace just as the Government of data sometimes there is the idea that that there is the general idea that there's just few were women wore actually these studies scientific topics but actually at least in Europe the European Commission has delivered to she figures such as research which is publicly available which is based on the Darfur from 2014 for Internet in 2000 15 and then they had been updated and they were showing that actually while at 111 the level a universe of university the level is more or less the same and the problem is much and much much more enhanced at uh when uh at the level of responsibilities actually increased uh so it's it's high yeah it's a yeah key uh problem rity which is not so evident at the level of the university degree and there's several reasons from that which and will cement and then this is actually not even only related to the signs but the minute it was shown it's shown as has a mean of 4 different countries and also for different topics the anyone else in West comments in once to open other points of destruction here it and how was your experience will of recruiting in high school and so on is there a big interest and the participants other staying in your community and can you recruit will never have diverse community from high school in and in number you know being on a high schools our divided on students that are with signs profile and those that are not that are with us the social profile so going into the high school and having presentation is that was very successful us each there were a lot of and students coming from the high schools and then being part of the hackerspace because of 1 of the reasons is that they want to have a lot of new experience is related to the field that they might be applying also students that our thinking to attend the universities for IT subjects they're very late and they really really want to go and those kind of communities to see how things really work or whether the field that they wanted to use in the future where there is exactly what they wonder not so is the phase of the experiment and there will be a lot of people that would be very interested on oncoming and also like of a very big class I must say is also if you divide in the comedian and or in any kind of other readership and you say for example in the heater she for in the company that if you work for example during the 3 months and if you do well during those 3 months will uh and this will keep you and you can also work for us so that having also these ads in in their presentations or in the the tall material will be seeing very to be a very good also motivation for them to to come and enjoying any other questions but yeah so so the problems on that and I am on the love of somebody shorter that word as being are they open are they for the new only over there open to everyone who my no you did so and both both of them both of the projects you can be part of the different teams and that depends on what teams you want a giant 1st of all technical lands or non-technical once even if you are a beginner of for the technical ones for example you will have someone of its with that you about 1st that's what you need to do so you can get more into the community even learning go in more things about of what kind of contributions you you need to do to do there but it's not that separated for beginners start not but I mean he sits on the 4 of 1 country over is you know we were a lot wiser everywhere so would be possible to have a collection like we do and made available and make available and I did a slide sorter collection of links so that the user where there that you mentioned in Boston and it will cause it will it onto it and the links of the a comment in the meantime questions on we still have I think means anything if you would like to I only have something of a soldiers don't forget to say thank you to all the contributions that each person that's and of course the don't forget to share what you heard for example today about the inter shit and shared with the other women that you know because it would be great because if the same that we did here so just now you need to do the same and thank you thank you