Neurodiversity in the IT industry. Why do YOU need to know more about it?
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Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:04
They say there are three key factors to a good presentation. A quote, a meme, and some storytelling. I included all of them, so I hope you will find it interesting. And the topic is neurodiversity in the IT industry,
00:23
but I think you hopefully already know it since you're here. I'm here thanks to the support of my company, a software house from Poland, JIT Team. Maybe it's not really known abroad, maybe hard to remember, but I found some helpful picture from last year's EuroPython.
00:45
So in Czech, Jit na Pivo, if I'm pronouncing correctly, it's go for a beer. So you can associate this name with a cool trip to get a beer. And I will tell a few words about why do you need,
01:03
do you need to know more about it, more about neurodiversity. You as an IT professional, as a participant of EuroPython, as a person connected to the IT industry. A few words about myself.
01:20
So I'm a test automation engineer working in the QA field, actually also in a position of a technical PO currently. But I'm also a human biologist by education, specializing in a biological basis of human behavior.
01:40
And here I am with the book Psychology for Dummies. And let's start from exploring what diversity is, just diversity. And I'll give you an example of my favorite herb, coriander. I hope you know this herb.
02:03
Please raise your hands, people who like coriander and who really enjoy eating it, great. And are there some people who actually hate coriander, like you would never eat it, great. So this is a really special herb because it really evokes very like ambivalent feelings.
02:23
So you can either hate it or love it. And there are even Facebook groups, I love maybe not groups, but pages. I love coriander, I hate coriander, it's really strong. So now imagine we have two types of people.
02:41
And the situation is it's 50-50. And the world is quite comfortable for both groups probably. So if you have a menu in a restaurant, you usually would have some kind of small signs, right, like vegan, gluten-free, contains coriander.
03:01
And then you can just decide if you want to order it or not, and it's really convenient. If you love coriander, very often you can just say double it, give me an extra portion. And everyone is happy. But now imagine that world is Facebook, and the group
03:20
of people who hate coriander is a lot bigger. And let's imagine that only 10% of people like coriander. And actually, out of the stand, only a few know that they actually like it. Because, you know, it's not very popular, so many people haven't even had a chance to try it,
03:40
to taste it. So now maybe 2% is like, okay, I like coriander. And then life is really tough for those 2%. Like, there might be some coriander underground. Like, you know, prohibition times, you have some secret clubs, maybe some illegal farms.
04:01
So then it would be really tough. And the worst thing is that if you say, hey, I like coriander, you are afraid because maybe people will think you are mentally ill, something is wrong. You know, and we fear stigmatization. And maybe already guess what I'm leading up to.
04:23
So neurodiversity. And first, let's define what we mean by it. Because there are several definitions of neurodiversity. They can differ. There's no time to talk about all of them. If you Google the term, you can read a lot more about it.
04:41
For the purpose of this presentation, we'll be focusing on one definition. So there are so-called neurodevelopmental disorders. It's a term, a medical term used in medicine, psychiatry. And it means, well, neurodevelopmental. So basically, you've got people whose nervous system
05:05
and brain has developed in a different way, which is considered medically a disorder. However, nowadays, scientists tend to think more and more that maybe it's not a disorder. Come on, maybe it's just some kind
05:21
of natural variety in people. And thus, we could regard it as just different neurodevelopmental parts, just different ways in which people's brains and nervous systems are built, which are not better,
05:40
not worse, just different. And what are these neurodevelopmental disorders? There are several of them. For example, it would be autism spectrum disorder. And currently, it also includes something that was called Asperger's syndrome. Right now, it's just included in the spectrum.
06:00
There is ADHD or ADD, so attention deficit disorder with hyperactivity or without. And there are others like, for example, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, and some others. And many others, there's no room to talk about everything. And I will be actually focusing on the first two
06:22
as I'm competent enough to focus on those two. And we've got two terms, so we've got neurotypical people and neurotypical people or neurodivergent people. So we'll be using this definition.
06:42
Okay, what does it mean that you are on the autism spectrum? It's not that easy. Like, there are basically three groups of symptoms. So these are regular difficulties in social interaction or communication, restricted repetitive behaviors,
07:01
resistance to changes, interest. And this all sounds really dry. Like, what does it mean, really? And in fact, to be diagnosed, it's really complex. You need to, there need to be some symptoms from all the various groups, and they can really differ.
07:20
So there is no, like, one pattern. For example, difficulties in communication don't have to mean that you cannot speak. You can be a great speaker, but in the same time, have difficulties reading facial expressions or expressing your feelings. And it's really, it can really manifest in various ways.
07:45
With ADHD, it's actually a bit similar. There is inattention, hyperactivity, impulsivity. But it can also manifest in many ways. Like, there is the stereotype of boys with ADHD who run around a lot.
08:01
But did you know that, for example, in girls, it often manifests, for example, by sketching a lot in their notebook. And they might seem to be quite quiet people. So you would not really think, okay, it might be ADHD. And it's really complex. It's really quite hard to get a good diagnosis.
08:24
And I put ASD, ADHD on one slide. Is there any connection? Actually, about 10 years ago, you couldn't even have both diagnosis like in one person. And it was thought to be like kind of contradicting.
08:43
But now we know that actually even half of the people on all this spectrum are also on ADHD spectrum. And it's really recent knowledge. And it very often overlaps.
09:01
And there are also some threads in general common to all neurotypical people. For example, neurotransmitters malfunctions. Your neurotransmitters in your brain don't really work well sometimes, so it can cause emotional dysregulation,
09:21
sensory processing sensitivity. And it can lead to specific perception and also specific problems. So there is actually a reason why all neurodivergent people are sometimes kind of like put in one bag, it would seem.
09:41
And for example, maybe you've seen the neurodiversity bag in this conference. There are many toys in it. Like for example, this fish, very cool one. Or there are some toys that you can just fidget with. And you will think, okay, what is it? What is it for? Like these are just toys you can play
10:02
with as neurodivergent people often have this need of doing something. Some like stimulation, you know, activities just to focus better. So instead of tapping your leg or biting your nails, which is not good for you, you can just play with those.
10:21
And it's really great. And please, if you are to remember one slide from this presentation, remember this one. It's about autism spectrum from autism sketches, but it also applies to HDID, which is thought to be a spectrum as well. So the spectrum is not something like that,
10:42
like one line, and you can be on that point or this point, like you know, introverts, extroverts, and just one line. It's much more complicated. It's more like a circle or even a 3D construction. So like various symptoms or your threats might be of various,
11:05
of different intensivity, and it's really complex. So you cannot really say that, oh, someone doesn't seem to have ADHD or someone doesn't look autistic, because there is no pattern really.
11:21
People can be really, really different. But the best way to explain it is with memes, as I promised you. So for example, you might be really organized and like to order things, but it's only connected to your special interests. And apart from that, well, there is artistic chaos.
11:44
Sadly, neurodivergent people experience high level of stress, of anxiety, which leads to a high risk of some mental illnesses, like for example depression. And it's due to many factors. It's due to this sensory sensitivity.
12:03
It's also due to not being really adapted to the society. So it's an issue. Well, hyper fixations or hyper focuses. So it's like you have some thing that really interests you, and you will focus on that. And it's really difficult then to focus on other things.
12:21
Sometimes it's beneficial if your hyper fixation is writing code. For example, as a Python programmer. But sometimes it's a problem. And then, well, when you start this hyper focus, but then you might just get burned out and you cannot finish it.
12:41
And while we are talking about burnout, there is some special kind of ADHD or autistic burnout, which is a bit different from classic burnout. It's more about sensory overload. For example, after such a conference, a neurotypical person might need one or two days to just,
13:00
you know, gather strengths and like rest. And maybe a neurodivergent person would need one week or something like that to do it. And people who are both on autism and ADHD spectrum might feel like there are two walls inside of them.
13:23
Yeah, like some various, you know, like sometimes you feel like an introvert, and sometimes you feel like an extreme extrovert, and it might be tough. And my favorite one, so me buying some random stuff for my hyper fixation instead of addressing my mental health. And it's also a common case for people with ADHD
13:44
that their impulsivity makes them, you know, go shopping and just become sort of shopaholics maybe. Of course, sometimes it's tough to, you know, make an appointment with a therapist. Instead, you just feel like, okay, I will buy something cool.
14:04
So what are the problems, some more problems of neurodivergent adults? Well, stereotypes, of course, because many people still believe that autism or ADHD, it's something that only is about children, right? So you can be a child with ADHD,
14:22
but then you grow out of it, right? Or a stereotype that women actually cannot be neurodivergent. And suddenly, these stereotypes really influence you as a neurodivergent adult if you are one, because people might not believe in your diagnosis, for example.
14:41
And then it's actually hard to get the correct diagnosis. Like, for example, sometimes ADHD might get mistaken for some personality disorder. And you need a really good specialist who can distinguish between it. So the problem is you might get a wrong diagnosis,
15:01
some kind of wrong medication, wrong therapy, not adapted to your needs. So that's an issue. And imposter syndrome, especially if you're diagnosed as an adult, you might be thinking, okay, is this diagnosis really, you know, the right one?
15:21
Maybe I'm just lazy, or maybe I'm just something, this or that, because you believed it your whole life. Maybe, you know, you just doubt yourself. And it's really hard to fight this imposter syndrome. But what does it have to do with the IT industry? Several years ago in the Silicon Valley,
15:43
scientists noticed something interesting. They noticed that autism diagnosis are skyrocketing in the Silicon Valley in family of some scientists, engineers, some people working in STEM. And there is this geek syndrome hypothesis
16:03
that maybe somehow autistic people are choosing STEM more often as a career path, which maybe would make sense as this is some job that lets you an opportunity to use your special interests to have some quite comfortable work conditions.
16:24
By comfortable, I mean, for example, online communication and other things that autistic people like. And there are even companies that only hire neurodivergent people. For example, some testing companies. And I stumbled across some kind of slogan from one of those
16:44
that said something like, no matter how bad the situation, our consultants will be always honest with you, due to the stereotype that autistic people don't know how to lie. So it might sound funny, but actually, well,
17:01
do neurodivergent people have some strong sides? And I put a question mark here, because there are many of those articles like, oh, neurodivergent, strong sides, superpowers, and actually I found out that many neurodivergent people feel excluded by those slogans, because not every autistic person is a
17:23
avant or super intelligent. And these strong sides do not apply to everyone. So it's like some kind of marketing, which is not always true, of course. However, there are some things that might be considered a strong side. For example, well, special interests.
17:42
Obviously, if your special interest is in programming, you will become a very good programmer. If it's, I don't know, languages, you might be able to learn a foreign language really well and use it at work, et cetera, et cetera. Hyperfocus, which I talked about already. So, well, if you catch this hyperfocus mode
18:05
in your programming or doing something else, it can really be great. You can be very productive and efficient. And some people on the ADHD spectrum like multitasking, which is great if you're working in a help desk or,
18:22
for example, if there is some fire in production and you need to do something, it might be helpful. Patterns recognition, which might be a strong side of some people and obviously also useful, for example, in programming, but also details perception. It's proven that autistic people see things a bit
18:43
differently, focus more on the details. So, they might just see some different aspects of some problems. And all of that contributes to creativity. If you have a diverse team, the team will be just more creative because there will be many types
19:02
of creativity in many people. However, if we want neurodivergent people to feel comfortable, we need to kind of adapt the office. And, for example, let's think about ditching open spaces, which might be really hard to work in, especially,
19:22
for example, if you have, on one side, you have, I don't know, a kitchen and a lot of smells coming. Here, some people are talking, discussing, and you are supposed to focus. It's tough for everyone. If you have some problems with some sensitivity to smell or to noise, it will be even worse.
19:40
It's good if the space is highly adaptable. So, everyone has slightly different needs. Some person might be really sensitive to light. And, you know, those horrible light bulbs sometimes in offices, it's really horrible. But some people might prefer more light. So, we should have some options to adapt space
20:03
to a given person or a given small team. And, home office is a really great way to just let people work in an environment they like. And, not everyone likes home office, but it's good to give people choice.
20:20
There are some people who are not even able to commute to work on everyday basis because they are so overloaded with all the stimuli in a bus or in a tram. And, they might just give up on applying to your company if it's five days in the office. So, it's great to consider at least a hybrid approach
20:41
and give people some kind of choice and liberty. And, work conditions themselves, well, it's already a thing in the IT industry that we have flexible schedule very often and hours, and it's great. We might have some core hours, but we give people options,
21:01
whether they want to sleep in, maybe they are night owls, which is also more common in neurodivergent people. Or, maybe they have a need to take a longer break and then work in the evening. And, it's really great, especially if you work in hyper-focuses, then you might really get a lot
21:21
of things done in a short period of time. But, then you are completely barred out. So, if there is a manager who micromanages you and looks if you are typing something, you know, throughout seven hours and 40 minutes every day, it won't work for you. It won't make you productive at all.
21:42
We should have clear procedures and communication. Obviously, for neurodivergent people, but it's also useful, for example, for international teams. Each culture has slightly different communication patterns. If we don't have some clear procedures, clear communication patterns agreed on,
22:00
then it might be difficult to cooperate with your friends from other countries. And, freedom to use strong sides of every person. Don't look at people like as if you were looking at, I don't know, products in a store on a shelf. Each person is different, and it's good if we have managers
22:20
who understand that and organize the work in a way where everyone can use their strong sides, something they are good at. And, actually, I don't know if you've noticed that, but all the things I mentioned can just make work environment great for all. It's not something only for neurodivergent people,
22:43
because we are all different, and each of us might need those kind of adaptations. So, basically, if you want work environment to be great for neurodivergent people, you just need to implement some solutions to just make it great for all the people, and that's how it works.
23:03
So, is being a neurodivergent a superpower or a curse? Obviously, this is like a clickbait question, because there is no answer. Like, it's looking at the things in a shallow way, right, to call it a superpower, or to think that all neurodivergent people must be
23:23
horrible workers. They cannot live in the society. It's also not a good way. Each person is different, and a lot depends on how much support you get from an environment, how much adaptations you get. So, as a neurodivergent,
23:41
you can have a really successful career. You can, I don't know, be a businessman, a millionaire, like Elon Musk, for example, but you can also be a person who really cannot find any suitable job and their place.
24:00
And I mentioned that, well, I'm in the testing industry. I'm a human biologist, but I'm actually also belonging to the neurodivergent community, and I'm having this talk as I want to be an advocate for this cause. I think it's so important to just spread this knowledge
24:21
and just to make people know more about it, to get rid of the stereotypes, and that will make our life better. That's it. You can find me under this page, and thank you.
24:45
That's a fantastic talk, Amelia. So, please give another round of applause, too. So, now there will be some Q and A sections for five minutes. So, if somebody have any doubts, please go to the mic, and you can ask some questions.
25:03
Also, a note, you can ask questions now. If you don't want to do it in public, you can also write me later on. Later on, yeah, sure. Thank you for the presentation. I really enjoyed it. So, what kind of recommendations or what kind of things have you seen that work better or perhaps
25:23
which ones doesn't when you want to communicate that you are neurodiverse to your employer, to your leaders, to your managers, et cetera? It's a difficult question. Hard to answer that. I think it depends on the employer, and there are many
25:43
people who don't want to communicate that, but there are also some cases where you have some special like diversity programs to hire neurodivergent people, and you just inform, hey, I'm neurodivergent, and you go through some special process. So, it depends on the company, and actually,
26:03
it might depend on the country even. Like, we are from various countries, and in some countries, there is like, you know, more of this knowledge already being spread, people talking about it. There are some countries where there are still a lot of stereotypes, and if you go to some really small, not an international company,
26:21
you might fear that they will kind of stigmatize you. So, I think it really depends, and I think it's a personal decision. Also, you need to think why you want to talk to your employer. Maybe you think that you are a person that needs a lot of support connected to like your fact
26:43
of being neurodivergent. Then maybe it's useful to communicate, but maybe you feel like you don't need to share it. It doesn't, it won't make any difference to you. So, it's a personal decision, I guess. Thank you. Thank you for the talk.
27:01
It's a very important topic to talk about. So, I recently read a publication where psychologists discussed that they, there is a big problem with diagnosing autism in part because they don't actually know which symptoms are due
27:23
to autism and which symptoms are due to trauma caused by growing out, growing up as an autistic person. Do you think that, you know, if we improve the environment for neurodiverse people, then we will have
27:40
to actually modify the diagnosis criteria because we will no longer have all of those? So, you mean that there will be no longer be people with trauma because they have better conditions, right? Yes. I mean, surely, if the environment is better for people, maybe there will be less people with some kind
28:03
of traumatic experience and it will be maybe easier to diagnose them. But it sounds a bit like a utopia, right? Like I think we can never get rid of any risk of trauma. But it's also like, it's quite complex, but there are specialists who just select some special types of diagnostic tools
28:24
to distinguish between like, you know, trauma and other things. I'm not competent enough to talk about it in details, but yeah, we also need a really qualified specialist for that. Hi, thanks for your time.
28:41
I want to ask you about, to say if it's okay, your experience with not your manager, with your team, setting your diagnostic, to decide with it, or putting your boundaries to your team, or if you, maybe you prefer that it's your manager who, I don't know, manage the situation for being more easy to you,
29:04
be part of the team. I'm not sure if I understood your question. Yeah, because when we work with a team of people, sometimes these people don't know about us, about our necessities. And I want to know if you serve with your team,
29:22
in the, your necessities, your boundaries, or you prefer that your manager manage this part, or how do you approach to your team to be more integrated, but also respected? Okay, so your question is if, whether it should be manager who like,
29:41
kind of like, helps the person, or also the team, right? Well, I prefer not your experience, your personality, if it's okay. Okay, okay. Our decision, because a lot of times we go to our manager, and we tell our manager our condition, but I think it's important that the team also, well, knows,
30:01
or at least knows our boundaries, but it's super difficult to approach to the team. So, if it's okay? Yeah, so, like, from my experience, I actually haven't been needing a lot of special support, and mostly what I do is rather trying to introduce
30:20
some, for example, clear communication ways to my team or my company, but it's like more that I'm introducing some modifications. But of course, it's very different for each person, so it can work in many different ways. Thank you. Sorry, the time is almost up, but again,
30:43
like, we can meet the person outside, and you know, we can have interactions. So there'll be a five minute break, and the next section will start.