OSGeo AGM
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| Number of Parts | 351 | |
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| License | CC Attribution 3.0 Unported: You are free to use, adapt and copy, distribute and transmit the work or content in adapted or unchanged form for any legal purpose as long as the work is attributed to the author in the manner specified by the author or licensor. | |
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00:00
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Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:20
We will start streaming in two minutes while I get my glasses, otherwise I am blind.
00:32
Okay. I welcome everybody to the Annual General Meeting 2022 for OSU. In name of our president,
00:55
Angelos Tsotsos, we the board members are going to be handling the Annual General Meeting.
01:08
I will introduce the members, Tom Kralidis, Michael Smith, Michelle, I forgot your last name,
01:37
hi, yes, Michelle, Marco, Rajat, and no, that's not my name, Ansela, Virginia, Vergara, Castillo,
02:00
no, not Vicky. Okay. So before we start, I want to tell you that these slides that you're looking at are in a form of a video in YouTube that we invite you to watch. Currently, it's the RC1
02:23
version of the summary of activities of OSU. That is because normally we have kind of two months to prepare this and this time was like done in 20 days. So we're going to finish
02:42
on the end of September of this year will come the final version of the video together with slides. So because of that, in this presentation, I'm going to tell you that you will find these
03:02
instructions in the slides two, three, and four that will guide you on how to add your slide. If we have spots for many slides that are missing, normally we have them hidden,
03:24
and that means that that is that slide is not valid for the video. It has maybe last year's information and once you update the slide, you unhide the slide
03:43
and send your audio or video. So there are here, there are the audio or video instructions together with some links that lead you to an example of how it will be the end result.
04:02
And there is also the link of where you need to deposit that audio or video that you're making about your slide. And because it's going to be made in a YouTube video, it doesn't necessarily
04:27
need to be one minute long. You can pass 10, 20 seconds no problem. You can make your own video. You will see, for example, for QGIS, they sent a very interesting video of marketing video
04:48
for QGIS. It's impressive. So I invite you to see all these recordings, the audio, the video. So these are the instructions. And of course, they will be hidden again. I unhide them so
05:09
that you could see that you can still work here. So let's see what's been happening. We have some, in this case I know of a local chapter that didn't have the time to
05:31
make the final changes on the slides. So we will give a chance once we get to the local chapters to give a verbal report here, a face-to-face report.
05:47
Besides that, eventually they will submit their audio or video. So I need to turn this on otherwise. Well, I'm going to ask the members of the board,
06:04
if you see Angelos mentioning something in Telegram or on Venueless or anything like that, because my abilities on these are zero to minus one. So you just, hey, Angelos is saying this.
06:31
I had Angelos here on Telegram, but now my cell phone is kind of black. So we start with what is OSU. You will see in the video that Angelos is talking about
06:52
being that we're open source, open data. We follow open standards, are pro open education and open science. And of course, we're thanking all OSU sponsors, which include Geocat as a
07:08
platinum sponsor, Open GIS as a platinum sponsor, and Cantopan as a platinum sponsor. We have three gold sponsors from this last year, Aston Technology Workgroup and Geosolutions.
07:26
Silver sponsors, MapGears, Electronic Chart Center and Terrestris. Bronze sponsors, Mammoth Geospatial, Kaplan Open Source, Brothor, Geoinformatic Maximum, How to Map and Chart.
07:44
Starting with OSU's chart tools overview, and some of us were in charge of a section. So let's see. This is my responsibility. So it's like we have in total 497 charter,
08:04
elected charter members. 15 were added last year. And from all people around the world, we have 1,700 members registered on the website. And almost 37,000 members registered
08:24
on the any mailing list in OSU. So maybe this can be talked by the treasurer. Michael, can you talk about the sponsors, please?
08:42
The sponsors program, just kind of fast. The video has more information. Well, we have a moderately active sponsor program. It's been a little bit more diverse. Recently, we've had sponsorships coming in through PayPal through donate methods. And
09:01
we have a variety of individual donation links that we can set up per project. So people can get specific PayPal donation links for your project to put on your website that will donate to OSU and mark the donations as for your project. We've also been getting donations through GitHub sponsors. And that's been actually putting in a fair amount of money
09:24
each month. So it's getting pretty good. GRASS is now using Open Collective as a method for getting sponsorships. And so overall, it's coming in pretty well and doing very well. And after the results of the foster G in Argentina, OSG is kind of back up
09:45
as we were after compensating the foster G Calgary group for some of their expenses for not putting on the conference. So overall, the financial health of OSU is actually pretty good. OSU has 21 projects. And this last year, one more community project joined.
10:13
I mean, this is the report from September 21 to August 22. So it's from any and there are no local
10:21
chapters. This is the board of directors. We already introduced many of them. Vice President Michelle in the US, Rajat in Asia, and me in yes, but remember this is RC1.
10:53
We will announce it in a moment. This was finished on the deadline for RC1 report was
11:05
um August 15. So we're kind of a little behind. We'll get to be a YGO API. So report from the board. As always, we meet once a month. But I mean, since last year,
11:28
we meet basically on YouTube channel and we've take votes on Lumio. So every motion that we have, it will be even if it's voted on this meeting, it will show on Lumio.
11:49
We have the, this OGC collaboration and it's a new memorandum of understanding. There are the details and maybe Tom, would you like to talk about it please?
12:11
Right. So we had a presentation this morning to discuss this, but just to summarize, we have an updated memorandum of understanding after a couple of years of review in OSG. We
12:22
put together a review team and we worked with OGC to come up with the new MOU. So now we have an associate membership in OSG and there's no limit to the number of participants from OSG to participate inside OGC standards, working groups or domain working groups. It also gives us the ability to apply for funding when there's a request for participation
12:44
in OGC pilots or test beds or other events. As a result, we're establishing an OSG OGC committee who is going to basically plot out the architecture of participation and
13:01
provide more details on what it means to represent OSG at OGC. You must be a charter member to be part of the, to be, to have access to the OGC membership through OSG. We're planning for a kickoff meeting in four to six weeks and we have to identify
13:22
a business representative who's going to be the president, which is Angelos, and we have to represent, we have to provide a technical representative and that will be the first step of the newly formed committee in the next few weeks. We had, this year we had another, our second code sprint,
13:41
joint codes between OSG, OGC and Apache Software Foundation. The third sprint is planned for the first quarter of 2023. So the, again, the relationship is natural, continues to evolve, and I think we're moving in the right direction so that open source and open standards play well together.
14:06
Thank you, Tom. And so, oh, we have our secretary. This is the first time the secretary is not part of the board, but it's a job that she still makes part of it.
14:23
Good. I can make it quick. Hello. I am the secretary since some years now and I take care of the contributor license agreement. So if new contributors show up, they sign a license agreement and we had six new
14:41
contributors showing up in the last year. And another step that I want to do is to contact the projects and the local chapters and get the contact points for more information. That's all from my side. Thank you, Astrid. I'm sure the secretary would appreciate any work from any volunteer to help contact projects.
15:07
It's to contact a lot of people. So please free to contact the secretary if you want to provide some help. We already heard Michael, when he talked about the sponsors,
15:21
he also talked about the health of OSGO economically speaking. So we can move forward. Don't forget, I like to make it like a habit, at least read it once a year just to have things in your head.
15:42
Read the financial guidance document so that we know what we're talking about and what we do. In that, financial guidance matters. Okay, chief returning officer.
16:01
Last year, 15 new members were, new charter members were elected. And the CRO, chief returning officers, were Jorge and Ann. And recently stepped down for at least for this period.
16:26
Jorge is now the officer in the chief returning officer. I will be participating as chief returning officer. It will be decided tomorrow to be able to help Jorge.
16:44
So again, if anyone wants to participate and help us, the help is very well welcomed. And these fourth elections from last year, we have Rajat, we have Marco,
17:04
we have Codrina and me repeated, and I'm forgetting the name. Okay, sorry. I have a different memory with names especially. These are the election statistics that Jorge prepared.
17:24
There is at least 66 members that have not voted in the last four years. I don't know if it's their way of saying, I moved my life to another set of waters,
17:44
so I'm not participating. So the CRO will work on a procedure to retire from being a charter member, because there is no written procedure. And the only option is I don't vote.
18:03
So we will work on that during this year and next year. So it's not going to be like immediate. Please prepare for the election. We're here where normally the majority of us are charter members.
18:26
And we want to use the database from the website, and not all of us have their profile on the website. So start spreading the word with the charter members. Hey, if you don't have your web page, create your profile.
18:45
We will get the current email from the website. We have like many points of truth. We make it a false thing about emails.
19:00
We have database that is floating of who is charter member or not, the mailing list of the charter members. We have the emails in the website. So we want to have a one point of truth of the mails,
19:21
because maybe we have mail that is 16 years old and it disappeared. And that's why this person haven't received the ballot. So please spread the word. If you are a charter member, please register and make sure that the email is there.
19:43
And if the person wants to retire, just send a mail to CRO at OSEO.org, stating that you want to retire. Nothing more is needed.
20:00
And the CRO will take care of that. So we will talk about conferences, of course. We know this one, I think. And it was hybrid. And the next one is going to take place in Brisbane, Kosovo. And these are the past conferences.
20:25
The state of the map and QGIS contributors meeting was taking place in these two weeks of Firenze activities. And we have many conferences during the year.
20:42
So if you organized a conference, you're able to create a new slide, maybe saying how many participants, how many talks, if you had workshops, like informing the activity
21:03
that happened in that conference. You can help us out by contacting, hey, I saw that your conference happened, so please create the slide. And we will give you access to the file if you don't have access.
21:21
And you can create your slide to report how that conference went in terms of numbers. The same happens with the code sprints. Well, actually, we already heard about the OGC-OSGO-ASF code sprint.
21:45
And now we go to the committees. This is the list of committees that are listed in the website. And the first one's code of conduct committee.
22:01
What can I say? We welcome all. We welcome you. OpenGL Science Committee has many things to say. And you can see the video. The System Administration Committee, in the slide, you can find the numbers.
22:20
In the audio, you will hear the new systems that are happening. And remember that Luca mentioned about making this work group. That is to reuse this software that was installed for this event.
22:45
So have folks watch the video, and we'll have the discussion. Perfect. So but before that, then let me finish, at least naming the committees.
23:00
Marketing Committee, Geo4All, Geo4All liberal America, UN Committee, Incubation Committee, which, thank you, which Jody might want to update here, because this line says it's an application, and now it's graduated.
23:23
Conference Committee, and we go to OSU projects. So we have people here. Jody, you can update about PY Geo API, because the slides are out of date. And we also have here Ariel, who
23:41
can update about Gioquietes, Giolibres in Argentina. So Jody, please. Hi, everyone. So PY Geo API joined the OS Geo community program
24:01
last November and graduated just a few days ago, earlier this week. Thanks to the PY Geo API team for being awesome, and to Michael Smith for mentoring.
24:24
Use presentations. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Doo, doo, doo, doo.
24:41
Ruby. Eta. Doo, doo, doo, doo. Doo, doo, doo. In English, perfect. OK, OK, OK, OK. OK. What's? And why? Ay, ay. Hi. Hi. In Spanish, it's very good.
25:03
I joined this local charter, the OS Geo in Argentina for official Giolibres. This is in community the 437.
25:26
I'm sorry. My English. This in presentations is including the video all general, no? I don't know how to read.
25:43
And in copy this in Tuesday, Monday, in official local charter in Cuyis, Argentina. I'm 200 member a proxy.
26:03
This very different activity for Latin America in including the user Cuyis systems, no? Thank you.
26:25
So if anyone wants to report something else, yes? Come on. So I'm Nick Berman. Just to say I'm now chair of OS Geo UK,
26:42
and we're running Phosphogy UK on the 17th of November this year. So if you're from the UK or know someone who is, please come along. We want submissions now. Any questions, feel free to come and grab me afterwards. Thank you. And for all that are organizing events
27:02
that are really soon, please upload your event into the website. Because the events that I showed reach up to today. And if the event that he just announced would be on the website, there would be a slide with it.
27:23
So please update this set of slides. Then take into consideration that I will be back in Mexico on September 5. So both I will be giving access or Angelos
27:41
will be giving access. Any of us can give access to edit the slide. And I will continue building the final version of the video by the last week of September. OK? With everything just done, not so in a rush.
28:04
So maybe Michelle? At this point, what we wanted to do was not spend a ton of time on the slides because they will be available on YouTube. And Vicki has been working really hard to get that together. So if you have any final updates, get those done soon.
28:21
But what we would like to do at this point is open the floor up for discussion. I know there's been a lot. It's been a long time since we've been together in person. So we want to have time to talk with our community and find out what's going well, what's not, questions, concerns. If there's something you need to know from the board,
28:40
we're here to answer that. So we have a mobile mic where you can talk. And let's start the discussion.
29:13
Maybe you have to come down here and talk into these mics.
29:24
It's cool. You can't actually see the audience, so you won't be intimidated. Hi. I'm Vincent from France. My question is, one of the major next challenge we face is climate change. And we are wondering how OSGO, outside of what
29:44
we do as a job or as software, but how OSGO as an association will include this challenge inside the way it's organized, inside the way it behaves, inside what we do for conferences, for example.
30:01
And as for now, I haven't seen real strategical or real clear position on that topic. And I would like to have your advice on that. That's a very general question. Complex, I guess. I don't want to reveal also, no, but just to open the subject.
30:21
We haven't addressed that specifically as a board in particular. And I think that's something that we could probably talk about in our meeting tomorrow a little bit. The board's actually going to be meeting. But are there suggestions from the community on how we should deal with that, or ideas for how you've seen that work in the past?
30:48
Two very small suggestions. I've been telling most people who listen, but I came to hear by train from the UK. So I think travel options, where possible, train's a good one. I'll happily tell anyone who wants to listen to about that.
31:03
And the other thing is reusable mugs. The conference, we had a lot of disposable mugs. So I know a few people brought these reusable ones. So in a very general sense, maybe those kind of guidelines, something like that. Just a rough suggestion.
31:23
I just want to say that one big problem we have, and I can see the problem here in this room, is that we have very few members that are active outside developing software. I mean, we need hands for several things. We need hands to be able to do politics, to push things.
31:44
We need hands to handle a big group of members. And I really don't know how to get all those hands, because I also see that the average age is growing. We need new blood, and I don't know
32:01
where to get the new blood. And this relates to the things we are talking. We are not strongly opposing things that we should be strongly opposing, because we don't have the hands to do it, or that's how I see it. I would like to mention that the first step,
32:21
I think, that we took, that it's in this direction, is that we have vice presidents based on area. And also, this is the first time we have a vice president, or a member that is 27 years old.
32:42
Yes, exactly. So that was something which I also wanted to echo. I mean, I really feel proud to be in this room when we talk about diversity, inclusion. There is one aspect which we usually miss, that is the age factor. And I'm really proud of saying that this community is constantly pushing forward the new people,
33:02
the younger generation. I know age is just a number, but then at some part of time, we have to consider that aspect as well. So I really feel privileged to be here as a part of a board member. And I would like to try my best, and with all the support of others, to make it happen in the future. So that's a very good point, and thank you for using that.
33:26
So it's not only trying to have the board represent in such a way, the best as possible, people from all around the world, but also going to the younger generations.
33:41
So yes, I agree, we're getting old. I'm one of them. There are projects in here that do not see that in their project. So I know for sure in QGIS that we are facing a very similar position.
34:00
And it'd be interesting to know from you if we obviously cannot know all the communities, but is there a specific community here that have solved this issue maybe, or did they realize they took some steps to get rid of the problem, or at least to start address the problem?
34:23
Just answering that, Marco. Google Summer of Code and similar initiatives, and also universities. A good example, Martin Landa, who is pretty much the engine behind GRASS, even though I think most people would not know that
34:41
if you don't know the innards of the engine. Since I have the microphone, I would like to pitch a question if I can. I work in a project that is kind of entering into slumber, as it were,
35:01
and I wonder if there is any procedure in place to review or reassess the graduation of projects at OSG. Does that exist? No, no, no, no. A project is already graduated, but is going into a slumber,
35:22
and eventually might not meet the criteria for graduation anymore. So projects certainly have retired before. I'm trying to remember the name of,
35:41
what was the mapping thing before OpenLayers that Cameron Shorter did? Map Builder. Map Builder? Map Builder stopped building, so it got retired. But there certainly is a procedure, but it's up to the board members. Projects are asked to report to the AGM each year, and if you do need to retire a project,
36:00
just show up to a board meeting and yeah. So actually this topic is marked for discussion for tomorrow face-to-face. And I think these last two years, well, with all these that went around the world, we don't know if it stopped because
36:23
something happened to the developer team. I mean, what is going on, it worked on certain years, so now we can, it's like giving a chance, let's not be so drastic. Things in the world were not like for being drastic.
36:44
But now we're going to review that. Yeah, but I think that the problem is not that the project is stopped, but the project is starting to do things that are not this year away, right? This was an hypothetical question. In my case, the project is going on, the project is relatively healthy,
37:02
but the PSC is not active. And this is something that I hope to resolve before the end of the year, and it will get solved. But I'm wondering what if things really tumble to the point where they don't meet anymore. I can relate to that.
37:21
But I agree, I don't want really to open a discussion that I leave for you to reflect tomorrow. But I think it's a good idea to give some space, because COVID is still having its toll. Yes, yes, yes. The thing is, we have that procedure in place. What we did is, this project is not answering,
37:40
it's not responding. We contacted the PSC, we contacted the points of contact. I think they didn't answer ever, right? So we said, if no one is at the other side of the communication, then just out. If you want to be in again, it's easy. So I guess the idea is the same. You contact the board,
38:01
so the board tries to contact the PSC. If the PSC does not answer, then maybe the most active developers can gather and decide who is the new PSC, with the help of the board, or something like that. But it's via the board. We also have had projects that were full OSGO projects
38:21
that went down a notch to just be community projects, because they didn't have the numbers anymore to run a PSC, or meet the standards of excellence we ask of our projects. We've got a similar situation in the incubation committee, where project teams have started incubation, and then just not taken action.
38:41
And I don't have a great way to invite them back when they've got time. The thing is, if you are acting as an OSGO project with all the guidelines, you can be in. If you stop doing that, like PSC not reporting back on AGM, which is once a year,
39:01
please then out. That's it. Hello, my name is Pekka. I'm part of the UN Open GIS initiative somehow.
39:20
And last Tuesday we had a meeting, and there was a discussion about what is the future of the UN Open GIS. And I see that it has been established 2016, I joined it in 18, I think so, and now it's 22. And now they somehow is changing their mindset
39:41
or changing the way how they do it. I think UN is very committed to the OSGO, but I don't know how we should handle the relationship with them, because they will have some kind of strategic advisory board.
40:01
And I was like, who is the member from OSGO side? And I didn't know. So maybe there should be some kind of discussion in the board on tomorrow, how you feel, what OSGO like to have from UN, and how this cooperation
40:22
will go. Because now it seems to be that I was there, Maria was there, but we didn't really have, Vicky was there, but we didn't really have any kind of, they didn't ask us any kind of opinion or view or something, but I was like, okay, I can say anything for you guys if you ask,
40:42
because only thing is like, call the board. So before the board answers, because I'm not part of the board, Yvonne and me had a conversation with the top guy on the open today about why are you promoting hybrid GIS
41:03
if we can do. And the thing is, long story short, they lack big companies in the geospatial world that can answer quickly when there is some natural disaster,
41:20
and they can deploy quickly whatever. I don't agree with that, but that's their perspective. So one of the things we were discussing with him, and this was today, so there was no time to do anything, is we should really put some funding, maybe from OSGO, maybe from I don't know where.
41:42
That should be the opposite way, sorry. I don't know where, but to have really, people paid there representing OSGO, or people that can spend time and resources there, explaining, no, no, no. What do you need?
42:07
Yes, but I agree with you. I'm just translating what he told us. And what he told us is, yeah, and he also had this idea,
42:23
and if he's here, maybe he can, no. He had this idea that companies, when they hired, because they had the experience with boundless, which was a bad experience, he has the idea that when a false company gets bigger, then somehow it gets,
42:42
it starts deviating from false. I'm talking. Give me a microphone. And I explain, and I explain, don't worry, there are companies like Red Hat that do this and can do this. We just need some company like this, or more than one will be better, that can do this. So maybe we need to convince them that this is possible.
43:05
So this is an advocacy challenge. Yes, we need someone that explains. We need to share that he needs to take part in OSGO and to take part in open source. He needs to participate. There's not going to be a company to hold his hand.
43:22
He needs to show up. Yes, but that's the thing. He said, when there is a natural disaster, I cannot put myself, start installing things. I need to contract someone that puts everything in place. And the idea they have, and I don't agree with that idea, but the idea they have is that they cannot do that with Fosh.
43:43
So maybe part of the problem is that we are not transmitting that we have companies that can do that. Just hold them. So we've been in that discussion, obviously, with QGIS and with QField, since they are the two softwares that are in there.
44:01
And I see a big issue in communication. So we as software projects are doing a horrible job at communicating in a non-technical way. So we are not doing anything that speaks to a level above developers. At least for QGIS and QField.
44:20
I'm not saying about other projects, but I'm pretty sure that that's something that we all need to learn more. And that's something that in QGIS we've been analyzing a lot and actually we had a vision meeting last week where we identified that we are lacking people that know how to speak languages and marketing people
44:44
that they can understand that yes, there is software, which is open source, it's free and open source, but there are companies behind it that work with those tools that are there for them, but they should also invest in those companies
45:02
and in the projects through the companies. So I think, and I know from now putting my hat of my company on that they are asking a lot of things and oh yeah, could you try, oh, this would be amazing if you do that in that software and that in the software. But we should not be, we always do putting budget there.
45:25
They have a huge amount of budget. We just need to figure out how we can, and not OpenJS, but OSGO have a sales department that is able to, sorry for saying sales department, but that needs to be able to get this kind of money
45:44
from them because it's them that have the huge budget, it's them using the tools that all our communities are producing. And we really need to turn that around in a way that in the end is a win-win-win for them, for us, and for the communities.
46:01
I think communication there is a very, very important part of the equation that we are missing out pretty big time. Yes.
46:21
What's the name of the professor that was leading the meeting? Yeah, okay. So I have, well, the reason why I have been in part of the UN OpenJS initiative is, well, it's the sales and marketing of the company services. United Nations is so big customer,
46:42
or could be so big customer that it's interesting. To be honest. And now there's, I have been saying last three years that we need funding from the United Nations to make these things happen.
47:01
OSGO, funding for OSGO and projects and also buying services from the companies. Main problem with the UN OpenJS was that there was this U.S. DOD project. 5 million euros or 10 million euro of dollars,
47:22
not the euros, I think so, DOD. And it was like U.S. government buy services from Boundless. And Boundless make a project, and finally they stop funding Boundless and it vanish and United Nations didn't get anything.
47:44
So problem. Now they are trying to find some money. If they try to get from the general secretary, it's the United Nations member states general meeting who's decided about the budget.
48:02
Think about how difficult it is, how political it is, and how long time it will take. So three years is nothing. And so it's a question about funding.
48:20
But I'm looking after that OSGO, and I think board should take a lead about the discussion with this UN OpenJS in Italy. Because now it's very limited. I can't say anything on behalf of the OSGO. During the UN meeting this...
48:46
The board's empowered you. You can say things for OSGO. We give you permission. No, no, but like the board appointed a committee. You're on it to facilitate the interaction. Yeah, anybody can enjoy the UN OpenJS in Italy.
49:03
So it's open to everybody. So that's it. But who... It's not open to everybody. I'm asking... Sorry. I'm asking that board will nominate OSGO representative to strategic advisory board
49:21
of the UN OpenJS in Italy. I'm not sure about if Maria is there now. I think so not. She has been a co-chair of that. But that's not enough. There should be a higher level. And I'm not voluntary to be that person.
49:42
So don't make a decision tomorrow that, okay, Pekka will be there. So no, I will say no. I don't have time. I think it's very fair what you're saying. Just not even because it's Pekka or it's Marco or it's Rajat or whoever. It's just a little name that it's behind it.
50:01
If you're a board member, you're just putting a certain amount of weight of importance on how you're perceived in that meeting. I absolutely agree with you. And that is a strategic thing that we should follow up. But it's not only one person. I mean, we can appoint one representative
50:20
and they can explain the same thing we explained this morning. It's not enough. We need to do a business to business meeting in which really the OSCIO service providers get together and say, hey, let's put something together. I'm not even talking about money.
50:40
Just ideas. What can we offer? What they are asking? Can we already have a list of providers that can provide what they are asking? How come it costs yet?
51:05
They do. That was the position. Because there's a lot of misunderstanding. That's why and how much it costs. It's important. Because otherwise it will be, oh, we need that. You do it.
51:21
No, but at least what we were discussing, they know it costs money. Maybe some members don't realize that. But the general idea is they know. They can. But I think the, and I'm sorry, I don't know if someone is fond of Boundless at this point here, but the project with Boundless
51:43
did a lot of harm there because they were expecting what we are saying. You can hire force and then you can change the provider and it's force. And you get benefits from the community and you can put the things we develop
52:03
will get to upstream to the open source community so people will maintain what you pay, blah, blah, blah. But that's not what they got. They got a fork that, yes, Boundless was maintaining, but it was completely detached from the community.
52:20
And that's, if that's the first experience of a big project they have with force, they are scared. This doesn't work. This is like buying from Esri, but worse. Sorry, but no, I completely understand. They don't want to hire force. That's why we need to change their mind and say, no, no, no, this was badly done.
52:41
This was harmful. This is not what force, making business with force really means. Making business with force means I hired today this person, I hired today, tomorrow this other person, and as this is the open source project, they can maintain, I can change. Whatever I improve in the open source,
53:00
goes to the open source project, and that's not what they have seen. So then I think we have uncovered something that really does need to be addressed, and I think what we need is next steps, like proposals for, like you said, we need somebody to be the official representative,
53:23
but what other things do we need to do in order to make this work? Because I think it is important, but we need to figure out what are the, like the tangible steps we can do next to solve it. Maybe we don't have answers right now, but it's something to think about, and I think the board would probably be happy
53:41
to continue this discussion. I mean, I think we'll discuss it tomorrow for sure, but also in upcoming meetings too, we can maybe get together and brainstorm some more ideas. My suggestion is not just meet the board and discuss this, but meet with the service providers, at least the regular sponsors.
54:02
So I agree that having the first experience with the FOSS company that went wrong can scare them a bit, but you know, in reality, yeah, that can happen with anything first, and second, I think we have sufficient examples in the FOSS world that this is mature,
54:21
it's operational, ESA is using, NASA is using, we have the wonderful example of GeoNetwork that started from FAO, right? Project. We do have a lot of very good examples that this functions, so to me at least it sounds a bit like, you know, drama queen, a bit maybe.
54:44
So you mentioned a B2B event, why weren't they here? We have a B2B event, we have all sponsors, all companies that offer services, or added value, build features or whatever, and they are here.
55:03
There's a lovely white paper about their success with Geonode, for example. Yes, but one of the cases was in the meeting on Tuesday, we pretty much stopped that discussion because they described that the missions in Africa make the requirement specification,
55:21
what they need, I need this feature, this feature, and then they say, you and people say, and then they submit the requirements to the OSGEO to analyze and say, what is the best way to solve these problems?
55:40
Who did they send it? Exactly, and we were like, no, no, OSGEO is not doing this kind of job if there is not funding. We don't have a spare time or free time to do this kind of requirement analysis and system architecture design and so on. There's had to be funding for this.
56:02
And then they, oh, really? Because idea quite often in the UN is that, I said, they can ask as a private company, what is your opinion about this? And I say, companies don't have a budget. They have only customers
56:21
who are paying about the services. And they have some kind of idea that every entity has a budget to pay the salaries and office space and so on. And it comes somewhere and you have a budget. And you can come in every day, work eight hours and so on,
56:40
because you have a budget. It's a little bit more clear than that, right? Like it's a game. At that level, they're used to getting services and direction for free. And it's a marketing game. If you help them come up with a policy, then they'll adopt it. Then all you've got a whole bunch of member states that are willing to be your customers
57:01
because they've got to meet the policy. Our game is set up some service providers in your local economy and keep your money local in your country. That's our game. So we can tell them our game. They want us to do that work for them,
57:21
not them doing the work to find out the service providers that they should be using. So I agree. That's why they like Boundless. It was a one-stop shop, but they didn't diversify. But here's the thing. They're used to just go to, for example, S3, and say,
57:40
hey, design this. And S3 is so sure they are going to hire them that they don't mind spending the money in advance. And we cannot do it. So that's why I say, maybe we should prepare some draft or something. What are they requesting? We have these service providers that provide these things that they are requesting.
58:00
Send some draft. Prepare something that says, if you really want this, we can do this, but we need to sit down. There's a procedure for this. It's called an expression of interest. Put out an expression of interest. Some of our service providers will bid on it. So we need some representative that goes to UN
58:23
and helps Maria Brobele also there and try to explain this, because they don't understand this. They still see the FOSS community very fragmented, very ethereal, very, I cannot really work with them because they are only freelancers, small companies.
58:41
And then the moment they had a company they trusted enough, it was a disaster. I have an open source procurement talk. They should watch. That goes back to communication. They don't grasp us yet. It's someone that spends time communicating and explaining. That's it.
59:05
You're going to keep talking. Thank you. I like that the directors board will take talk, discussion, and then on Saturday, if you need more information,
59:21
I'm happy to help on that. And I think Maria is also, but maybe we need to have a second meeting or second in a month or so. What is OSGO like to have about this cooperation? Thanks, Pekka.
59:50
Any other interesting discussion? Next interesting discussion to start.
01:00:04
Just like people are all like this. So briefly, I'll mention about the initiatives. This is already there.
01:00:21
But the thing which I wanted to discuss is, so Google Summer of Code, OSU has been participating since its second inception stage. So it started in 2006. And we have been participating since 2007. This year, for the first time, I think it happened. Or I don't know, in my tenure, as a part of Google Summer
01:00:42
of Code administrative team for the first time, it happened. That there were more projects, but less students participating. So the proposals from the students or contributors were less. Even though GSoC has changed their rules, and now the new contributors or new developers who is making a transition from student period to a job,
01:01:01
they can also participate. We had one example of that. But my discussion point here is, what can we do to include more university students or new developers? One is obviously raising awareness. But we have been doing that. The announcements have been done. So I don't know.
01:01:22
I mean, I see it as a very win-win situation for all the entities. But then also, why we are having less proposals. Any suggestions or any inputs on that? I can speak about my experience as Google Summer of Code.
01:01:42
Definitely. Yes, Martin. And back then, Birmin, I think, he was my mentor back then, if I don't remember wrong. He had this thing posted on what to do, and I did it. And Qfield came out of it eventually. But what follow-up, I think, was the most important part.
01:02:03
And that's that I started going to the university, giving external lectures on open source and entrepreneurship. Of course, that was because I had good ties with the university, and they were inviting me. But maybe we should invite, or not invite,
01:02:21
but tell students to try to do that, so that they, I got access every year for four or five years to 20 masters students. And I was telling them about what you could do. And if you know my business partner, that's how I found him. So I think that's something that when
01:02:43
we are dealing with students in Google Summer of Code, maybe we could just make them aware of that that could be a very powerful thing for them to do, and then be the ones that then push, like you're doing now, the ones that push
01:03:00
the project more and more. But to really make our mentors aware that they should tell them, it's a very simple thing to tell, but you need to think about to tell it. How to tell? That's the next part. So how should we tell them? How should we tell them? Our mentors, or how the mentors should tell the student?
01:03:26
You're here. How did you start? I also started as a Google Summer of Code student. So how were you told? And I'm answering your question of how were you told?
01:03:45
Why are you here? Look at your path. You were told. So we do participate, but you also kept contact with someone. And I was, okay, push.
01:04:02
Do this, do that. Yes, accept the Google Summer of Code administration. Yes, be a mentor. But you kept on contacting me. I wasn't contacting you. So there was this sparkle of interest. But this is happening with you.
01:04:22
I saw it since we met in Hyderabad. But right now with Ashish that, for example, he's also in the Google Summer of Code administration. It was like this student has very much potential. So Daniel, we cannot lose him.
01:04:44
We cannot lose him. And now he's taking in charge of vehicle routing problem. So yes, it's us. We're part of open source, and we're also part of a service provider. And by looking at their quality of code
01:05:01
when they are coding on Google Summer of Code, we know how we can, we are the ones to push them. We are the ones to push them. Yeah, my point was really about, yes, we are the one to push them,
01:05:21
but we should push them in a very simple way. So like, say, tell all our mentors, like, hey, just remember you can push those people and tell them you could do things after and not just, you know there is something after Google Summer of Code and can turn in something really powerful. And it's really just about, hey, by the way, Rajat, you could maybe go to your university
01:05:41
and do some presentation, or just something very informal that the mentor, just, we should maybe just remember the mentors that they can have a great impact on the student. Yeah, those are good suggestions. And the first step is for that is they are presenting their work on Phospho-G.
01:06:03
That's the real question, okay, thank you.
01:06:21
Anybody else? Any other open questions, points? Thank you, guys. Name's Peter Lowe, some of you know me. I have something like a wicked question for the board.
01:06:43
It's about how we reach out to the next generation, how we get new people in the projects, and I understand that most of you have a business background, which is good. However, OSG also reaches out into science, into academia, and there's a so-called learned organizations,
01:07:01
which is like, yeah, similar structures like OSG, just for specific topics in science. Two of them are pretty large. There's AGU, the American Geophysical Union, and here in Europe, we have the EGU, the European Geoscience Union. Both of these organizations have annual gatherings,
01:07:20
similar to what we have here. EGU, the Europeans, they get together in Vienna in April usually, and it's about 17,000 people pre-COVID, and the numbers are coming back. Alessandro, who used to sit over there, he ran away, okay, okay, 10 years back, we were at such a conference,
01:07:44
and we decided on Snap to have something like a birth of a feather thing, which really drew some attention, and we've been doing this ever since, for 10 years, so we have a bit of an experience about how much work it is, and I really thank the board
01:08:01
that for a long number of years, you guys have paid the beer and the nibbles for that, which really helps to get starving students in to listen to that, what we have to say. However, when we go to these meetings, we go there as scientists, so that's our primary mission.
01:08:22
We are not, as a primary mission, default representatives of OSGEO. It's sort of a side job. We walk the extra mile for OSGEO. Now, after these 10 years, we know very well we can do one night event. That's about it, what we can do. We are not able to have a booth there.
01:08:41
We can't do that. It would take too much effort. There would be one thing which should be considered to have some sort of a team to also talk about these things and organize these things and make sure that people actually get travel money and entrance fees to be at these events.
01:09:01
Now, the Vienna case is actually rather easy. The AGU case is more tricky. The AGU fall meetings attract 30,000 people. This is massive. It's usually in California, in San Francisco. This year it's in Chicago, I believe, and if you want to do something on the side there,
01:09:21
it's really expensive. You have to rent a room, you have to have people there, and this is really, I guess it would be very worth it to do it, to reach out to all these early career scientists. Because of these 30,000 people, more than 50% are early career scientists, and I guess they should know about OSGO.
01:09:44
But here we can again have the problem. It's who has the resources to do that. Of course, it would be very easy. Is anybody from the California chapter here? Oh, okay. So why don't you guys do it?
01:10:03
Okay, thank you for listening to me. So I wanted to address the point that people are going to these scientific meetings and the OSGO part is secondary, and I think for all of us that's the case. Even the board members, we're not actual employees,
01:10:22
and you all know that. And I think that the ideas that you're asking or presenting are really important. I think that we should follow up on that. I just want to say the California chapter has some challenges because our state is larger than a lot of countries. We have a really big challenge in getting together.
01:10:42
We haven't been able to have meetings with everyone because of the size of our state, but it... You mean virtual meetings? We are not. We... Yeah, no, I agree. But the solution isn't fixing the California chapter so that we can then go to the AGU.
01:11:01
So I think we'd be better off figuring out how we can support this as a group. And maybe it could be as simple as keeping a list of presentations that are happening at the AGU that involve OSGO and blasting that out on social media. Because there's a huge social media presence for AGU, I know, and I'm sure for some of these other ones.
01:11:21
So I think that there are ways maybe that we can get an in with that group without having to, like you said, have a large budget for having a booth and making sure that we send people and asking attendees to spend more time doing OSGO stuff. So I think that's something important, but as an academic, I hear you about
01:11:41
you're at a conference for a reason and you don't necessarily wanna do the side stuff. So any other thoughts about? But we should definitely talk to the marketing committee directly about some of those things. Okay, thank you so much for that. Actually, I was sort of joking. I did not seriously expect the California chapter
01:12:01
to take on the job. It's just been incredibly difficult. Actually, a couple of years back, there was sort of an EGO event at AGU. And thank you so much to the California chapter for the pizza you served to us then. Much appreciated, thank you.
01:12:22
Since I'm out here already, I don't have to jump down anymore. Questions, inputs? Yeah, oh, sorry.
01:12:40
I would say something about the science and the Google Summer of Code because don't forget that they are students, so they are at school. And they are, between us, they are the ones that are the closest to research and science. So they don't own a business, they are students.
01:13:02
So maybe the Google Summer of Code and the mentors, they can help the students to push their work through a science career and help them to participate to conferences and about showing what USGEO is doing at the AGU.
01:13:23
I've been at AGU and there is a Google booth. So maybe through the Google Summer of Code and USGEO, we can ask some presence there to show what the student in USGEO did for the Google Summer of Code. So I find some connection between science
01:13:41
and Google Summer of Code that this can be used to help to get the new generation coming in. It will be also useful for other students that are coming to AGU to see that Google Summer of Code people, they had a chance to get money and get visibility
01:14:02
through the use of open source software. So maybe we should talk to each other like the Open Science and Google Summer of Code a little bit more. Thank you. That's another example of C-SOC involvement with OACO with us.
01:14:31
Any more points? Good, thank you.
01:14:45
So unless there's any other comments or concerns, I think we can wrap this up and just say thanks for hanging out with us past the end of this conference and we're glad to see you in person. And I should also mention, if you ever have concerns throughout the year,
01:15:01
we meet monthly or sooner if needed. So all you need to do is email the board email list and you'll get our attention as a board and we're happy to discuss things. And we're constantly on Telegram talking about stuff that's coming up in the community that we hear about. So reach out and contact us. You don't just have to wait for once a year
01:15:21
to talk to the board. We're available throughout the year. So don't hesitate to contact either any of us individually or the board email list. We're happy to have these discussions throughout the year as well. Feel free to attend our board meetings. They're open to everyone. So they're listed on the wiki
01:15:41
and attendance is open. So please participate. The board meeting will be tomorrow at the university. So if you're out there for the code sprint and you want to stop by and talk to the board, please do. We welcome everybody. All right, so thanks everyone. We're glad to see you and.
01:16:00
Thank you.
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