Goodbye Tracking, Hello Privacy
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Berlin Buzzwords 202246 / 56
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Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:02
Good morning, everyone. We are thrilled to be here today. Thanks for the intro. I'm Lara, I'm a Product Director at Empathy. Perhaps you have seen us around in the event these days, but for those who don't,
00:27
we are a software development and product company focused on search and discovery technology. So I'm here with my colleague Nina today and the topic that we wanted to bring to the table
00:44
to share with you is something that is in our essence, in our vision, in how we envision search and the topic is privacy. So we truly believe that this is something that should be in everyone's agenda working in digital nowadays.
01:05
So we are gonna share with you something about this topic from two different standpoints. First, Nina is gonna tell you about the negative impact of privacy violations and the key principles of online privacy and later on I'll be telling you how do we at Empathy act on privacy
01:31
from a technology and product standpoint. So having said that, Nina, all yours. Thank you, Lara. Hello everybody. So good to be back inside again and good to meet so many people in person
01:46
again and meet new people too. So like Lara said, I'm going to talk to you about the negative impact of privacy violations and let's get started. Real-time bidding is the biggest data breach ever.
02:05
In Germany, a person's online activity is tracked about 376 times per day without them knowing. In the US, that number is even higher, about 747 times per day. And there are a lot more countries listed in this. The survey was even bigger, we couldn't fit it all into one
02:25
but if you'd like to know more about this, I can point you where to find this survey by the Irish Council for Civil Liberties later on. Find me at our booth later. So I'm not going to talk to you about real-time bidding but what these figures clearly show
02:41
is that our privacy is violated many times per day without us knowing and that GDPR, CCPA and other data protection regulations do not offer sufficient protection anymore. So who of you reads the privacy policies in cookie banners? Anyone? Raise your hands.
03:02
Uwe, you do. Great. Do you understand it all? Do you know where your data ends up? No, right. No, no one really does and also it doesn't really matter if you read it because those texts are not made for humans, they're made for businesses to be able to comply with the current regulation. But where does it leave us as humans to make a sound decision
03:25
whether we want to accept or reject cookies? How can we know where our data ends up? We don't. We somehow accept it even though we're worried. But we shouldn't accept this and we shouldn't take this as the normal. So technology evolves so fast but we need
03:43
a better enforcement and a faster enforcement to keep up with that. And policymakers and governments are not the only stakeholders in this. So today I'm going to show you three key aspects in online privacy.
04:01
First, explain why protecting your own privacy is important for yourself but also for society as a whole. Second, introduce you to five principles of data ethics. And thirdly, explain why those principles in practice and why the terms commerce and ethical are not as contradictory as you might think.
04:28
Very often I hear things like, I can accept all cookies, I've got nothing to hide. Well, that's good. But secrecy is not quite the same as privacy. Because privacy is not about hiding something. It's about protecting something. Something quite important. Your online identity.
04:45
That is your name, your address, your date of birth, your credit card details, your social security number, even your medical records. You name it. Because we don't want an algorithm to make a potentially false prediction and minimize our chances to get a job, an apartment or a loan
05:01
based on that data that we didn't even give voluntarily. The data is our own and is no one else's business. And it shouldn't affect our rights to be treated equally and fair. But this is what happens when data is treated as a commodity. Personal data, of course. The data is forced from us. We're nudged into consent. Sometimes it is built into an algorithm
05:23
where we have no way of knowing it is even there in the first place. And informing a visitor to have a website that cookie banners and trackers are in place is not enough. So we need... And making the acceptable button bright and shiny and the reject or more options
05:44
rather small and more difficult to see is not how GDPR is a determined consent, which should be freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous. So in summary, protecting your personal data helps up keeping equal opportunities
06:03
regardless of race, gender or income. And helping and rejecting cookies helps up make a change. Because the same rules that protect our fundamental rights offline need to be applied online as well.
06:20
And now I'm going to show you five principles in data ethics. As the moral ethical framework to support this. Oh, sorry, I skipped the slide or two. So the first principle is accountability. It's the most important one.
06:50
Assuming responsibility for your actions and how you handle personal data and taking active measures to demonstrate that what you do with the data
07:01
lies at the core of all the principles. And without that, all the other principles are a lot less effective. The second one is ownership. You own the data, not the website that you're visiting. The third one, transparency, can be assessed by some simple questions.
07:20
Why the data is needed. Context is key. How, where and how long it is stored. And who has access to this. Those questions are very helpful for businesses to limit the purpose of the data. And also helps them to know which data they actually need and which data they collect and store, but they have no use for whatsoever.
07:43
The fourth is consent. I've said it before, consent is not very active, but it should be an active authorization, giving permission of the use of your data. But for that, you need to know why the data is needed and where it is stored, referring back to transparency. And the fifth one is privacy.
08:06
The most vulnerable data that we have is the personal data, and we need an extra layer of protection that is required to safeguard our online identities and to avoid mistrust and disloyalty. And now, moving to those principles in practice.
08:27
Ethical and commerce. Isn't that a contradiction? What is ethical commerce? So, very often this refers to the products, fair trade or organic products or recycled items.
08:43
You name it. But this refers to the end of the supply chain, to the products that we purchase. How can we, as developers of makers of beautiful search and discovery solutions, how can we take on responsibility for what we do and how we build the software?
09:04
At Empathy, we pursue a privacy by design and ethical by design approach. Lara will explain to you in detail how we do it and what we do with it. But from an ethical perspective, we use our common sense. How would we want to be treated online?
09:22
It's also not for us, not data protection, something that our legal department is concerned with, but is ingrained into each and every one of us, into every department and every person that works at Empathy. We don't collect any personal data and we put the human at the centre.
09:45
This has lots of advantages. Data minimisation is the first one. Minimising the data that you need and that you use and collect means getting rid of a lot of liability. Because each personal data point is a liability for your company.
10:02
Because when the data is leaked, it can result into terrible lawsuit and does a lot of damage to your reputation. Second, invoking, establishing and retaining trust. Using less data means you can be a lot more transparent with how and why you use that data.
10:25
This means giving trust to the customer. Giving trust means earning trust in return, trust and customer loyalty. And finally, those new privacy settings help raise the standards. They help educate the consumers, the individuals,
10:44
the people that are visiting your website or purchasing from you and help make them demand higher standards of protection on other websites as well. So, in conclusion, privacy violation today is common practice.
11:07
But we as individuals can take certain steps to protect our online identities better. But it takes a joint effort of government, policy makers and the industry to make that change.
11:21
Now remember always to reject cookies, except of course for the edible kind. And now Lara, all yours. Thank you. Cool. So, well, how do we learn all this?
11:41
Everything that Nina has said in the design, evolution, development of digital products. Shouldn't this be something of strategic importance for everyone working in digital? Well, what I've brought here is a privacy timeline
12:00
where you can see how legislation is becoming more and more strict on these topics. Lately, we all have heard many years ago about GDPR, CCPA and lately all these scandals with analytics tools in several countries.
12:21
So, legislation is becoming more strict, but how are brands positioning themselves towards this? The truth is that they are being a bit sceptical and they are waiting for legislation to impose things in order to take action. So, it's like they are being reactive instead of being proactive with this topic.
12:47
But for me and for us, the way we envision the product, digital products, it goes beyond that. Because if we think about what a digital product is, I always use a definition for someone
13:04
very knowledgeable in the product world, and he's Roman Pichler, and he says that a digital product is something that is out there to create value for a group of people. So here's the first thing, the key words in the sentence. A digital product creates value for a human.
13:28
There is a human in front of the screen. It's solving a problem. Let's think all about all the digital products that we have surrounding us, like for listening to music, for watching series, for booking our holidays, we are all in contact with digital products. So we connect with them
13:45
because they are creating us value. So how do we land this on the search side of things? Of course, this was the example that I have in mind, so I'm going to continue with this.
14:05
What is the role of thinking about the search as a digital product? So what is the role of search within an e-commerce? Let's think about ourselves. When we enter into e-commerce and we go to the search,
14:23
we have an intention, we want to find something, we want to connect with the brand, to ask, to get some information. So in a way, the search within an e-commerce is a key touch point
14:41
for the brand to connect with the consumer. And at the end of the day, brands want those consumers to be back. So it's all about using the search to create a relationship. As every relationship, it has to be based on trust.
15:03
So what's a better way to evoke this feeling of trust in our consumers than caring about their privacy? So this is how we envision search as empathy. And this is why empathy is privacy, sorry.
15:22
It's at the core of what we do when we think about new evolutions, when we develop new stuff. So this is the reasoning behind. And the important thing here is, well, you have been talking a lot about privacy, but how do you act on privacy? Well, I'm going to be focusing on the three main components in the architecture,
15:49
like affected, influenced by this privacy topic. And I'm going to tell you how do we, in each of those pieces, how do we act on these principles of privacy? So I'm going to start with the experience because at Empathy,
16:09
we always start with the experience and then we figure it out from a technology standpoint. So I brought here two examples. This one is one of the latest components that we have added to our front-end
16:28
component library. It's open source. We have the product owner of this bit in here, so you can ask later more questions if you want. And this component is called My History. So what is this about?
16:45
This is about showing the consumer the latest interactions they have had with the search. But it's not only that, because if you have a look, this component is being transparent with the consumer.
17:02
It's telling them, okay, this information is only stored locally and you are in control of it. You can enable, you can disable, you can delete this data. So the consumer, we are not only being transparent with the consumer, but we are giving them control. We are giving them this capability for
17:24
chosing. And this is what privacy is about. It's giving the consumer the choice of what they want to do with their data. So as I was saying in this component, first we say, okay, this information
17:40
is stored locally, it's here for you. If you want to enable, disable, you are in control. So and then we have another example, that is My Preferences component. This is something that we are working on right now and goes a bit beyond that, because this component communicates with
18:02
the consumer. So if the consumer wants to share with us preferences, their preferences, in order to get a more sophisticated experience, okay, we again, we give them the option, the ability to choice, to make a choice. So in this example that we have here, it's from groceries,
18:25
so the consumer can enable the preferences and add in their information about their habits, their diet, their brands and so on. And again, this goes about being transparent and giving
18:43
them control. Because as Nina was saying before, privacy policies and cookie policies are not, it's not a way of being transparent. In here you are telling everything to the consumer. So the next pillar, the next component I wanted to focus on is the data collection pipeline.
19:08
So this is extended to many digital products, it's not only something about cert, but in here the first question that we ask ourselves at empathy is, what is the data that we need?
19:25
Because I think that we all have seen how many times a lot of data is collected and then that data is not used. So that's the first question that we ask ourselves. And this is also a topic now with this sustainability theme that we are hitting around. So that's the first
19:43
question that we ask ourselves. And then how is this done? Well, basically, the data pipeline is collected based on three isolated events, the query event to collect the search interaction,
20:04
the click event and add to cart event. Well, these simple events collecting very simple information about the search. But the important thing in here is that no PII or user ID is
20:22
collected in those events. The only thing that is collected in order to connect interactions is a session ID. That session ID is stored locally. And once the session is finished, it expires and it's not persistent in the system. So this is how the data pipeline works.
20:50
Three simple events, no PII, no user ID, only a session ID used for connecting events that then expires. And this connects with what I was saying before. And what about if we want to give
21:08
the consumer the option of sharing preferences as we can have those preferences available locally and therefore customizing, sophisticated the experience? Well, this goes to the component that I was presenting before. It's another way of capturing data by caring about the
21:27
consumer's privacy. And well, last but not least, relevancy. What a nice topic for a search product. So how, well, after saying all these, like we only collect, only those three events
21:49
are collected, you may be asking yourself, well, and can you provide a proper sophisticated relevancy with that little amount of data without identifying users, without having anything?
22:06
Well, the answer is yes, what I'm going to say. And I'm going to tell you how. So first, we don't talk about personalization, we like to use the word contextualization. So the contextualize feature,
22:26
it's something that takes all the interactions from the wisdom of the crowd, all those clicks for those specific queries. And then that wisdom of the crowd is used for the relevancy of the
22:40
upcoming queries. So in a way, this works very well with seasonal things like in summer, if everyone is clicking white t-shirts, well, when you look for t-shirt, the white one is going to be pushed a bit. So this is about using the wisdom of the crowd.
23:03
Then, and this was a topic that was mentioned in here yesterday with a whole session dedicated to that, offline evaluations. Again, that wisdom of the crowd, those interactions for specific queries are used to anticipate how an algorithm is going to work. So the offline
23:27
evaluations add some scoring to each of the products that will give us information in order to position better each of the products. This anticipates and this makes faster the innovation
23:42
because with this we don't need that A-B testing or we can have an idea without spending like two or three weeks doing a kind of A-B testing, so that's pretty useful for accelerating innovation. And last but not least, you perhaps may be asking yourself, well, and what about
24:05
contextualizing a specific consumer, a specific individual, a specific search session? Well, on this topic, historically, we have been using historic data in order to predict
24:23
what the individual is going to do next. So, putting an example, if I have a coffee every day, so tomorrow you are going to have a coffee as well. Well, that could end up being a
24:41
simplistic version of a human being. If we act like that, if we personalize like that, shouldn't it be like objectifying something as complex as a human being is? So, following this idea, what we are exploring right now in order to, as I was saying, contextualize data specific
25:07
session is what is written in there. Using the present to understand the intention. So going back to the example that I was saying before with the coffee, I feel that we know more that someone
25:25
wants a coffee when they go straight to take the coffee machine instead of when they wake up in the morning just because the previous day they have a coffee. So this is the algorithms, everything that we are exploring right now is just creating a sphere of knowledge around
25:45
the specific intention in order to be more precise. And again, this goes on the fly without any identification of the individual as I was saying before. So, with this I'm going to finish
26:06
because in summary, at the end of the day, this is not something new. Like, acting on privacy in your product development is just as we always have been told, people working in
26:23
products, we are always told, like, put yourselves in the shoes of the customer. So this is the same. It's just treating them as Nina was saying before, as we would like to be treated, being transparent, being clear, not hiding anything. Asking them, do you want to have a more sophisticated
26:43
experience? Do you want to share with us your preferences? This is how we're gonna do it. Do you want us to do it or not? It's just a matter of positioning ourselves in this way. So this is what I wanted to tell you, as I said, we have a very nice team of engineers,
27:04
people from product, from empathy. We are upstairs in the lounge, so if you want more information about something, I'm sure that someone that was involved in the coding of that is here today. So this is what I wanted to share with you and Nina as well, so now time
27:24
for questions. For questions, if you have any. Thanks Nina and Lara. So now there is some time
27:41
for questions. So do we have one? I'll pass around the microphone. And by the way, I would like to remind everyone that this is a hybrid conference, and we also have the ones that are watching us online, you can also ask questions and I will read them out. So I'll come to you.
28:06
So first of all, thank you for the talk. Very commendable initiative, so I really liked everything so far. So I have a couple of questions. So the first one, what's the default in the history sharing and tracking? Because we show the tool that gives the
28:23
possibility to users to potentially hide and delete all the interactions. So what is the default, which sometimes is the most important? The default? It's on the client side of things, they decide what they want to do
28:44
with the consumer, but normally it's enabled by default. But the first time you enter the website, there is no story. So you see that in there and you decide if you want to use it or not before it starts working. Because when
29:02
you see it in the experience, you decide before that's gonna happen. OK. And the second question is, everything you show is really nice, but how can you build trust in your clients? Because anyway, a lot of companies in the past
29:20
potentially said like, yeah, we are not doing this and then you discover after that potentially everything was tracked, everything was actually stored. So how can you build this transparency to effectively build trust with your clients? Because in theory you should, I don't know, share the entirety of your code or give the possibility of having full access to your architecture to really build
29:46
trust on your customers. And anyway, non-technical people will really never know and never really be able to explore that internal, right? Well, at the end of the day, we all can lie, but I mean, we usually do what we
30:08
say we do and I mean, it can be proved if you check the cookies that are stored, you know if you have been tracked or not. So I mean, that's the
30:20
approach. I'm not sure that I have an answer for that. Building trust is something very difficult and also it depends on brands, as I was saying. So, but building trust is not only about taking care of consumers' privacy, it's a lot of things all together. But this is one bit, so then there are
30:48
many things that goes, as Nina was saying, with how ethical your product is and all these things. It's a relationship, this is only an item. So, as I was saying, the first thing that you can do is just being clear
31:05
with them, telling them, OK, do you want to be personalized? Do you want to have this sophisticated experience? So that's a step because now everyone has this feeling in mind like, well, I'm being tracked because I'm seeing
31:22
these ads and I've been talking about this and I'm seeing this. So being transparent, I think that is a good starting point, like saying, hey, this data that you are sharing is here and you are the owner of it and you can delete it and this is not being shared with anyone. It's just
31:41
for you. So I feel that that's a good first step from brands to start doing that. But as I said, it's a lot of things, a lot of pieces in the puzzle, but it's a first step because I think that everyone now has in mind these things that I'm being tracked, I'm being personalized.
32:00
So if brands start doing these kind of initiatives, it's a good starting point for creating this relationship based on trust. Yes, I was saying that context is very important and the contextualized search, like giving the opportunity and showing them what you do and how you do it and when you do it. So, yeah.
32:21
Thank you. Thank you very much for the question. We have another question. Vinnie has a question. Thank you very much for your talk. I have a question on the events that you're tracking. So you're stopping at the air to basket event and excluding the actual purchase event. Is this on purpose and what's
32:44
the reasoning behind that? Well, to be honest, I'm not going to be very transparent. I've only used, I've only put in here the query, click and onto car events because it's mainly what our customers want to track. But to be
33:02
honest, we have the purchase event as well, but it's not been used a lot from Kayan, so I didn't put a lot of attention, but we have it out there. It can be enabled or disabled. But following the same
33:22
idea as the other three. Yes, but at the end, we added it in the past because it was like to complete this kind of funnel, but the search experience goes more from the intention to the click on the
33:42
product rather than what happens in the conversion funnel. So that's why we are not given a lot of importance in the presentation, but it's there. It can be enabled by clients. Okay, so we have also two questions from the online audience and I
34:00
will read them out now. The one comment says, great talk. How can you ensure that the information stored by the client is not stolen by other systems? Well, that's a very good question. I'm product director, so I will be lying to you if I answer that question,
34:21
but that's a very good one. And it's a pity that it's an online one, because we could be discussing that in here later on. So, but yes, it's... So I see, I guess, the people interested can contact you and find out. Yes, please. And then the other question is, are those front components open-sourced?
34:45
Yes, that's a very good one. I wouldn't want to say it, but well, you know? Yes, those components are all open-sourced and very well documented, so as I was saying, we have the product owner of that frontend compliance
35:00
library in there, so we can share, well, feel free to contact me, but in our website, in the documentation, there you have the link and all the documentation and everything, so you can have a look. We have more than 100 components that can be very customized,
35:23
that are very customizable and you can put all together to build the experience that you want, but yes, those are open-source. Great, so I guess the people who are interested in seeing those open-source components can check the website and find out. Yes, and check the documentation, I mean, there is all the information about the link and everything. Cool. So any other questions in the audience,
35:45
like online or offline? It's not the case, but I have a question. In your presentation, you showed you're focusing on, let's say, the e-commerce domain, are there also other domains that you're working on
36:03
or that your product could be applied on? Well, we are focused in e-commerce search and discovery, as I was saying, it's not only search, but it's also that has to do with navigation, browsing and even recommendations, and yes, we do also content,
36:22
some kind of content search for other websites or other customers that we have, so it's not only focused in products, so it's usually done that way. I see, thanks a lot. So, any other questions, last chance? Oh, there are, actually. Who was first? OK.
36:48
OK, thank you. If I understand correctly, you're positioning a software vendor, and so you're part of an e-commerce website architecture.
37:03
So, did you find sometimes a situation when the customer installs your product, but also use tracking systems like Google Analytics or things like that, and how do you consider this? Will you educate your customer?
37:22
Which is obviously in between you, your product, and the end user. Yeah, that's a very good question, and yeah, we have faced that, of course, because we have this position in not influencing but educating,
37:42
but telling them what is our vision, but at the end of the day, a brand, and especially a big e-commerce brand, there is a lot of complexity in there. So, we always try to find clients that are aligned with our vision.
38:04
When we have conversations with them, we realize that well, we have this feeling in common, we can be good friends. But sometimes, as I was saying, when you face a big enterprise customer, I mean, you cannot change that environment,
38:21
you cannot, you can influence, you can educate, you can work together, but one of the differentiators of the characteristic of Empathy Platform, the product that I was referring to all the time, is that it's extendable. So, what we usually do is, okay, the product is like this,
38:44
but if you have other sources, other things, something that you want to connect with, into the relevancy, for big enterprise customers, we give them this possibility of adapting.
39:00
So that's more or less the approach. But it's a very good question, thank you. So, I also have another short question from the online audience that I would like to ask before you. So, in your experience, which industry stores the most PII during e-commerce shopping? That's for you, Nina.
39:21
Which what? Sorry, can you repeat that? PII. Which... Which industry stores the most PII during e-commerce shopping? That's a good question. I would have to check that. I can't answer that from the top of my head. Yeah, it's a bit risky, right?
39:40
To it, yeah. I just forward the questions. I could drop some names, but yeah. Well, a lot of questions, very good. So, maybe one last question. I wondered, you said that when you have queries and clicks stored per session, how long does the session last by default?
40:02
And is there an opportunity to store that to a profile, if I want to have that next time? The session ID is automatically generated and it lasts, well, the standard ID of an online session is 3 minutes, so that's what it lasts.
40:27
And as I was saying, once the session is finished, the ID is deleted, so once the consumer goes back to that website,
40:42
it's another new session ID is generated. And as I was saying, it's not persisted in the system. It's used for connecting interactions, but it's not persisted in the system. So that's the idea. OK, so then thank you, Lara and Nina, for the great talk and for the Q&A.
41:06
And I guess we can conclude the talk. Let's thank the speakers again. Thanks for the audience. Thank you.