Windows and Office "tax" refund
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| Number of Parts | 542 | |
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| License | CC Attribution 2.0 Belgium: You are free to use, adapt and copy, distribute and transmit the work or content in adapted or unchanged form for any legal purpose as long as the work is attributed to the author in the manner specified by the author or licensor. | |
| Identifiers | 10.5446/61991 (DOI) | |
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FOSDEM 2023117 / 542
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00:00
SoftwareMedical imagingComputer virusOffice suiteLecture/Conference
02:53
View (database)Programmer (hardware)FirmwareSystem administratorPhysical systemVideoconferencingObject (grammar)Celestial sphereState observerChord (peer-to-peer)ML <Programmiersprache>Scripting languageJava appletDistribution (mathematics)Android (robot)FreewareCompilerArmAlpha (investment)DecimalComputerReduced instruction set computingComputing platformSPARCPower (physics)Open sourceGraphics tabletContent (media)Information privacyText editorInformationWeb pageSoftwareTranslation (relic)Online helpComputer programmingFormal languageFile formatProjective planeStudent's t-testDistribution (mathematics)Software maintenanceCuboidAndroid (robot)Computing platformMedical imagingSoftwareFreewareObject (grammar)FirmwareComputer animation
06:16
Open sourceSoftware maintenanceRepository (publishing)FreewareRepository (publishing)SoftwareFormal languageComputer animation
07:02
SoftwareReading (process)BitReading (process)Right angleComputer animation
07:52
Computer hardwarePurchasingSoftwareGroup actionOpen sourceCondition numberSoftwareCondition numberRight anglePurchasingForcing (mathematics)FreewareWindowProduct (business)Design by contractComputer hardwareBasis <Mathematik>Office suiteComputer animation
09:26
SoftwareComputer hardwareComputerOpen sourceInstallation artOpen setOffice suitePersonal digital assistantInterface (computing)BootingPhysical systemWebcamKeyboard shortcutTouchscreenSystem programmingEntire functionProduct (business)InternetworkingData storage deviceMassFile formatSoftwareDampingLaptopInterface (computing)Installation artStandard deviationLine (geometry)Device driverKernel (computing)Power (physics)Order (biology)WindowDifferent (Kate Ryan album)Product (business)BootingInformationDivisor2 (number)SubsetMultiplication signInternetworkingWebsiteComputer hardwareTouchscreenFreewareOpen setPhysical systemRight angleSurfaceRevision controlWebcamKeyboard shortcutSystem administratorMultilaterationArmLink (knot theory)Computer animation
17:35
Installation artInternetworkingMassData storage deviceFile formatProduct (business)GradientSoftwareWindows VistaPersonal digital assistantKolmogorov complexityAddress spaceGraphics tabletOpen sourceHypermediaLaptopSurfaceComputer fileImage resolutionView (database)EmailDesign by contractPurchasingOffice suiteTotal S.A.WebsiteDistribution (mathematics)TouchscreenDigital photographyElectric currentPower (physics)Dependent and independent variablesNegative numberWeb pageComputer hardwareRevision controlTelecommunicationComputerAssociative propertyComputerBuildingPrimitive (album)EmailWindow2 (number)Lenovo GroupWebsiteSequenceMultiplication signCASE <Informatik>Link (knot theory)Chemical equationSelf-organizationSoftwareMereologyProduct (business)GradientKey (cryptography)FreewareAssociative propertyLimit (category theory)Digital electronicsPower (physics)Revision controlComputer animation
25:45
BuildingComputer animationProgram flowchart
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:07
Hello. So one quick question for the next speaker. Can you please identify yourself towards us then? So Karen, who's the next one? Sarah Chain. So if you're around then
00:24
please come to Karen. So our next speaker here is Luca Bonisi and he will talk about one topic. When I first saw what he was accomplishing there as one person it was amazing. So and the rest he will talk about it but yeah it's amazing what one
00:43
person was able to do there. Hello, welcome to Fosman and welcome to the
01:04
device and the concept is what in my opinion is an unlawful behavior to install, to pre-install software on PC that you normally bought in your
01:28
device. Specifically, this software are a window, a proprietary software that are windows and office. I briefly introduce myself. Okay, the image, sorry because the
01:55
image is missing. Okay, I introduce, I briefly introduce myself. My name is Luca Bonisi. I
03:19
is developing firmware of electronic devices and I also support some school
03:28
and small office with free software, especially one school that I defined, a free software school where all teachers and students are using free software. I have
03:44
some objects that are always related to free software. Audio and video, I am audio and video technicians where I use jack, jamil, cinellara, kapadian live. I play guitar and piano and I use
04:08
rose garden as a midi player to record from piano. I like to observe celestial object like the ISS. This image is the ISS photographed by me with a normal camera.
04:29
I built a 3D printer and I'm using them mainly for pairing or also for fun. I make some free software project or activity.
04:49
One is to make a chart on the text of songs since I play piano and guitar and transpose it automatically.
05:01
Another is I'm the maintainer of an official porting of a Slack or Linux distribution for many platform and SPUs. A project that I just started is to free your Android TV box. I bought a
05:25
cheap Android TV box and I installed Linux to be used as a general purpose devices. I am a volunteer in FSB as a translator. For FSB, I built this project that was built in Peru, a language that maybe not so used but I love it.
05:57
I built this program to help translator in FSB, to help translation in the FSB, the
06:06
translation process, so the translator has not to care about the HTML formatting and so on. I contribute also at this fantastic book. I maintain the repository of this free
06:32
software book. Free software means that this book is distributed with the free license.
06:43
It was translated in five languages actually. German, Ukrainian, Italian, Arabic and English. The Italian book is not yet published but we wish it will be soon published.
07:02
And if you like this book, you can attend the reading of the book this evening at 6 p.m. and Matthias will be the reader, I think.
07:21
Bonus hobby, I make ice creams. Since the book talk also about ice cream, it is very related to my hobby. And if you are producer, you go to this evening. In this presentation, you will find many illustrations
07:44
like the one on the right that come from the book, so I sponsor a little bit the book. Okay, we start with the real presentation. The legal basis about the vast neutrality and the windows refund.
08:07
We have two different contract. One is for the hardware and one is for the software. This contract cannot be joined together. You cannot force to join the two contract
08:22
and force to give back also the hardware if you ask for the refund. Because the hardware contract is a sales and purchase agreement.
08:48
And you become the ownership of your PC, of the product. And nobody can force you to do what you don't want to do.
09:02
Instead, the software is a license agreement. You have a right to use the software under some condition that for proprietary software like windows and office are limitations.
09:20
Instead, for free software are freedoms. I talk about device neutrality because of the hardware and you have the right to choose to install what software you like.
09:47
Also, by installing free software on your device, you gain the sovereignty of your device. For proprietary software, you don't know what proprietary software make on your device.
10:05
For proprietary software, connect to some site that you don't know. Using a running free software can overcome software solutions.
10:23
Because, especially with newer version of proprietary software, you are forced to change your hardware because newer version of proprietary software doesn't run on older hardware. Instead, free software you can customize like I do with the two boxes and run also on lower end devices.
10:51
And in this way, you extend the hardware lifetime and also you reduce the electronic impact of a loss.
11:04
There is also an open letter that the Free Software Foundation Europe asked to sign for the right to install any software on your device.
11:22
The link is this one. Maybe it will be available later. And the Free Software Foundation Europe asked to the European Parliament and Commission and also to the public administration to be able that every device should be independent from the software.
11:54
It runs because using open standards and open interfaces.
12:05
This is related to our work because sometimes other manufacturers use this proprietary interface that limits the possibility to use some feature of your device.
12:26
Ok, we come first of all technical others. Manufacturers say this is real what Microsoft says from a device I purchased, from the laptop surface I purchased.
12:45
Microsoft says that the device does not work properly with other operating systems and they are not supported. This is said by Microsoft. And this is true because my laptop's surface, the touch screen doesn't work,
13:09
the webcam doesn't work with Unix, the two proprietary interfaces of this device. Also installing from scratch Unix is not straightforward because the keyboard and the touchpad doesn't work if you don't build the customised kernel.
13:32
So the drivers for keyboard and touchpad are not in the main line. But ok, you can compile and then it works.
13:49
And the main factor could also lock the bootloader. For example, Microsoft with ARM devices and Windows 8 lock the secure
14:02
boot in a way that you cannot install software different than Microsoft Windows. So the device is not really your own because you can only run software certified by another party.
14:22
We come to legal order. Manufacturers often say that even if the license says that you must contact the manufacturers, the manufacturer says that you have to ask the referrer to the vendor or to Microsoft.
14:45
But this is not true because the license agreement says that you have to contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer says that you must also return the PC.
15:01
So you should have all the reforms of all PC, both PC and the software. The manufacturer says that you can't have only the software refund. Manufacturers set a very little time span to ask for the refund, usually only 30 days.
15:26
Manufacturing says that you must prove you refuse the license. But it is impossible to prove you refuse the license because when you start from the first time Windows, you have only one button accept.
15:44
You cannot even power down the PC. Especially if it is a laptop, it could be a problem because the battery is usually integrated and you cannot power off the PC if you don't know that you have to press the power button for 30 seconds.
16:08
Regently, manufacturers switch their policy and say that you must return the PC to their laboratory because
16:20
you must remove the product that is information about the license in the store and in the BIOS. Manufacturers set a price by your own, not the market price of the Windows license.
16:45
When you first run the PC to see the license agreement because to refuse the license agreement, you have to see the license agreement. With the latest Windows version, it is mandatory to connect your PC to Internet before viewing the license agreement.
17:10
I think this could be not compliant to the GDPR because your
17:20
PC sends information to manufacturer and to Microsoft sites without your explicit agreement. There is no refuse button as already said. You cannot install a different license if you remove Windows and you download Microsoft Windows from Microsoft
17:48
website and you want to install a full license or also the GRATIS license because Windows is GRATIS. This is only a limitation that you cannot customize the toolbar.
18:01
You cannot do it because when you install the version you downloaded from the Internet, it looks for the product key. So you are in your search circuits. Very briefly, cases of refund in Italy.
18:21
There was a case in 2005 against HP. The case that came to the Supreme Court of Italy and that say the refund must be given.
18:43
It worked about nine years. It lasts to all the sequence. The second case is similar. It takes also nine years. It's very similar.
19:06
And this case is regarding this PC. And I requested the refund in 2018.
19:27
Lenovo refused the categorically the refund of the only software. They asked that they say that I have to return also the PC. But I filed a court case by myself without a lawyer in Italy because from my side it was clear that Lenovo has wronged.
19:55
But Lenovo introduced artificial complexity so that I cannot continue without a lawyer.
20:09
So I asked for a lawyer. I win the first grade lawsuit. But Lenovo immediately filed the second grade appeal, the second grade lawsuit. And they lost the second grade.
20:24
But the judge of Mozarkuft imposed to Lenovo primitive damages of 20,000 euros. Because they use the legal instruments with bad fate, without any valid reason.
20:54
After these cases, I requested also other use of the refund.
21:06
The case was simpler but not so easy. Asher, for example, asked to return the PC to remove the product K. In this case, since I have some excessive front-end, I go with the bike to bring my PC to Asher.
21:35
There are also other cases, one with Microsoft, as I already said.
21:42
One with HP. I filed a court case against HP. They lost the court case. But in this case, the judge does not recognize to me the legal fee.
22:04
So the balance was the same. I lost what I gained from the refund. Other cases. This is in turn interesting, the last year with Asher.
22:25
Because when I asked to Asher, this time I need the PC immediately. So I cannot wait to send the PC to Asher and to give it back. And Asher said that it was Microsoft that asked to send the PC to the manufacturer to remove the product K.
22:52
Then I filed a court case, but it was stopped by Asher before saying, before reaching the first hearing.
23:05
So they gave me 129 euros. Latest case against Lenovo that was terminated three days ago.
23:20
Lenovo says again that you must return the PC to the manufacturer. And they say that they are not satisfied by the license. The license, they propose, they are not satisfied by the license, they themselves propose. So it is not very coherent.
23:45
Ok, asking for the phone, I go very quickly. You have to power on the PC, you have to read the license, contact the manufacturer, send email, and a certified email in Italy.
24:05
And you have to be very patient, because many mails you have to send before requesting the refund, before having the refund. But you will have the refund.
24:22
Ok, one important thing is that manufacturer artificially increase the cost of the PC with a mandatory payment to Microsoft. I think that if you obtain the refund, you must, you have to give part of the refund to some free software organization.
24:52
I give all 20,000 euros to this association. And if you want to donate, you can go to the link down.
25:08
And if you can support the free software foundation for their valuable work. Thank you.