Responsible Clouds and the Green Web Triangle
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00:00
TriangleCloud computingGreen's functionMassCalculationComputer networkDirected setSoftwareBranch (computer science)Integrated development environmentVariable (mathematics)Computer virusWorld Wide Web ConsortiumDevice driverCASE <Informatik>Web 2.0Device driverBasis <Mathematik>MassIntegrated development environmentGreatest elementBitLevel (video gaming)Group actionCloud computingGreen's functionInternetworkingText editorComputer animation
02:16
Server (computing)Internet service providerChainWeb serviceDigital signalChi-squared distributionFocus (optics)BitTriangleDefault (computer science)Asynchronous Transfer ModeCloud computingType theoryDifferent (Kate Ryan album)Internet service providerWeb serviceMultiplication signFood energyPower (physics)FreewareSelf-organizationBuildingNumberGraph (mathematics)Keyboard shortcutStructural load
05:29
Device driverWorld Wide Web ConsortiumGreen's functionDevice driverLevel (video gaming)TriangleOnline helpGraph (mathematics)Integrated development environmentDegree (graph theory)Projective planeDifferent (Kate Ryan album)MathematicsTrajectoryNatural numberMultiplication signComputer configurationComputer animationDiagram
06:44
Information and communications technologyInformationTelecommunicationGreen's functionWorld Wide Web ConsortiumTraffic reportingStandard deviationSelf-organizationMultiplication signContext awarenessDrop (liquid)Standard deviationDigitizingComputer animation
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Green's functionWorld Wide Web ConsortiumTraffic reportingStandard deviationChainPlastikkarteEntire functionTraffic reportingInformationChainDirection (geometry)Self-organizationNeuroinformatikMultiplication signComputer animation
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World Wide Web ConsortiumGreen's functionInternetworkingFood energyCryptographyData miningData transmissionComputer networkMathematicsDirection (geometry)NumberOnline helpFood energyMoment (mathematics)DigitizingInternetworkingData centerWeb serviceGoodness of fitComputer animationDiagram
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Food energyGoogolCore dumpGreen's functionWorld Wide Web ConsortiumPurchasingBuildingCloud computingGreen's functionLevel (video gaming)Cloud computingAxiom of choiceEndliche ModelltheorieFood energyTwitterBasis <Mathematik>FrequencyStructural loadAbsolute valueWhiteboardBitChemical equationCircleSelf-organizationInfinityPower (physics)PlanningRight angleComputer animation
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World Wide Web ConsortiumGreen's functionServer (computing)ArmCloud computingLiquidFood energyBuildingVirtual realityVirtual machineRadical (chemistry)Metric systemTowerInterface (computing)Bookmark (World Wide Web)Online helpLevel (video gaming)Web serviceServer (computing)Water vaporStructural loadLiquidInternet service providerSoftwareArmCloud computingMetric systemMereologyData centerPublic key certificateProbability density functionComputer animation
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ChainSign (mathematics)Cloud computingGreen's functionWorld Wide Web ConsortiumMultiplicationWeb serviceVideo trackingProcess (computing)Metric systemFood energyVirtual realityOpen sourceCoding theorySoftwarePhysical systemStatisticsPower (physics)Kepler conjectureLevel (video gaming)ChainData centerSoftwareNumberExtension (kinesiology)Firewall (computing)InformationOpen source1 (number)Virtual machineFigurate numberPosition operatorImage resolutionCloud computingStructural loadDigitizingMetric systemMereologyTable (information)WordTraffic reportingProper mapLevel (video gaming)Food energyWeb serviceComputer animation
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World Wide Web ConsortiumGreen's functionCloud computingOperations support systemMultiplicationWeb serviceVideo trackingFood energyMetric systemVirtual realityOpen sourceCoding theorySoftwareKepler conjectureLevel (video gaming)Power (physics)StatisticsPhysical systemDigital signalTwin primePressureAxiom of choiceTraffic reportingTriangleScale (map)HypercubeAreaNumberRight angleDirection (geometry)Multiplication signWordTrianglePressureGreen's functionWorld Wide Web ConsortiumGroup actionAreaComputer animation
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InternetworkingInternetworkingMathematicsLink (knot theory)SpacetimeRight angleMatrix (mathematics)Term (mathematics)Open setDesign by contractAddress spaceInformation technology consultingOrbitData centerElement (mathematics)Computer virusSelf-organizationElectronic mailing listWave packetGroup actionTwitterComputer animation
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Cloud computingMultiplicationVideo trackingWeb serviceProcess (computing)Virtual realityMetric systemOpen sourceFood energySoftwareCoding theoryGreen's functionLevel (video gaming)Power (physics)World Wide Web ConsortiumPhysical systemStatisticsKepler conjectureInformationHD DVDFood energyMultiplication signGoodness of fitFigurate numberPower (physics)Projective planeInternet service providerCodeCodeComputer hardwareAverageComputer animation
25:02
Program flowchart
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:05
If you can hear me, if you can hear me at the back, farming through the sound, can you, okay, it's, I think, it sounds like you can hear me at the back. Excellent. All right. Okay. Well, it turns out I'm a little bit early, but I'm
00:21
going to use those two minutes for questions at the end of the talk, if possible. All right, folks. Welcome to Responsible Clouds and the Green Web Triangle, how to make the climate case for a diverse cloud ecosystem. I work for the greenwebfoundation.org, and the URL for that nonprofit is written across the bottom of this screen, as you can see.
00:43
In case you can't see me, that's my face. This is a bit of a kind of hangover from when you're doing remote talks, because, yeah, it's weird being in a room with other people again. I have a background working in wacky environmental climate tech startups, like, as you can see, Loco2, which
01:00
is a triple layer pun around locomotion, low carbon, and like going to local on a crazy holiday. I also worked at a company called AMI, which stands for Avoid Mass Extinction Engine. We burned through something in the region of 20 million US dollars of VC money trying to put a carbon footprint API on anything we could find. These days, I work at the Green Web Foundation, where we track the transition of the internet away from fossil fuels to something greener.
01:26
I also work with the Green Software Foundation, which is a large industry body, where I'm the policy chair there. And I also run a podcast, I co-host a podcast called Environment Variables, get it, yeah, which is all about green software. And I also am a contributing editor to a magazine called Branch Magazine,
01:45
which is all about the stuff, this kind of intersection between climate and tech. So this is what we're going to cover today. I'm going to frame a kind of problem that you might think about when it comes to sovereign tech, sovereign cloud, and like sustainability. I'm going to talk a little bit about the drivers for sustainability at a kind of regulatory level that happen in Europe specifically.
02:05
Then I'm going to kind of talk about the idea of competing on transparency as a basis for a more diverse cloud ecosystem. So off we go, framing the cloud, framing the problem with the Green Web Triangle. So most of you know that we basically build services by compiling them these days, lots of different services.
02:25
So it's a bit like a kind of graph where things people see at the top is actually comprised of all these things that we might build all the way through that. And when you're trying to actually use a service, you kind of end up with this kind of problem. If you want to make a service available to other people, or if you want to use a service, there are kind of like three things you want in my opinion.
02:47
You want something to be convenient, like ideally hosted by someone else a lot of the time, or at least so you don't have to be doing it all yourself if you're a kind of medium to small size company. You probably want it to be fossil free because there's a whole kind of climate emergency thing going on.
03:00
And ideally you'd like it to be kind of diverse so you're not dependent on only one provider who can jack up their prices or do all kinds of things that bad things happen when you're only relying on one provider. And you basically have, I think there are different failure modes when you think about this triangle because most of the time you can only pick two.
03:21
So for example, let's say you wanted to go for convenient and diverse. This is like the common thing that a lot of us kind of default to. Like it's basically the default, it's fossil fuel powered. And it's a bit like being in a spaceship that you know is on fire and then you go to work and you type on a keyboard and you know things are on fire.
03:40
Then you go home and you realize things are on fire. Then you feel kind of a little bit anxious and like people call that climate anxiety. Like that's one of the things that some of you might feel when you think about this. But on the kind of like global scale, there's an issue there. So that's the thing that we probably are in right now that we don't want to do all the time. The other one is diverse and fossil free. Maybe you do care about this and you're going to look for, say, green providers.
04:04
But you also care about having diverse ecosystems and building everything yourself. This is cool, but it kind of has another failure mode in that you spend loads and loads of time on undifferentiated heavy lifting, which isn't necessarily creating the kind of value that you're basically employed for a lot of the time. Or alternatively, you can go for convenient and fossil free.
04:24
Because lots and lots of large companies now, like say Microsoft and Amazon and Google, are telling a really, really like loud story about how much they're really kind of like running on green energy and doing a load for the climate. Now there are kind of all kinds of problems which I'm in a sovereign cloud dev room
04:43
where I don't need to kind of talk too much about. But there is also issues because these folks tend to be the people who are often the market leaders in helping people get oil and gas out of the ground and burn it. So even if you're running on, say, green software, they may be doing things which you might not be aligned with as an organization
05:01
or you might feel somewhat uncomfortable about. So these are the three ways. This is the triangle and these are the kind of common failure modes that I think are useful to talk to other people about and how I explain the problem with basically sustainable, digital, diverse services to people who want to actually make a switch and start using something
05:21
which is not necessarily a number of really large providers but don't understand why you can't just move to like next cloud for everything. So that's the triangle. Now let's talk about the drivers for sustainability in tech at a regulatory level that might kind of help for some of this. So this graph is from Dr. Robert Rode from Berkeley Earth
05:43
which is an environmental data science nonprofit and they're using data from the Global Carbon Project. And what you can see is historically like we've been growing in emissions however long and you can see this trajectory which people might refer to as business as usual. There's lots of different scenarios and it's catchily titled SSP2.
06:03
There's a bunch of these. Then you see the kind of changes we would need to actually make to get down to like 1.5 degrees of global warming which is considered like the least worst option that you will typically see a lot of the time. And this is, you might have heard like 1.5 versus 2 degrees for example.
06:23
Like in 2015 pretty much every country on Earth agreed that we should probably do something about climate and we should go for not more than 2 degrees of warming. And then they actually, you had a bunch of people say well actually 2 degrees is still pretty bad. And then we did a bunch of research and found out that yes 1.5 is what we should be thinking about naturally.
06:43
And despite that we've actually had people thinking okay well what does that mean for us as a sector, as a technology sector. And in 2020 you had a bunch of digital and sustainability focused organizations trying to figure out what that would mean for us as a sector.
07:02
Like how would we need to kind of drop our emissions for example. And as you can see this quote that came out when it was issued from this press release basically said yeah to actually have the Paris agreement which is less ambitious than that 1.5 thing. They basically said you need to halve emissions by 20, you need to reduce emissions by 45% by 2030 in 7 years time.
07:23
So that's basically making reduction of around 7% each year, year on year. And well we haven't really been reducing things by 7% each year so it's actually going to be larger. So this is basically what the science is spelling out for us. The thing that's quite interesting this year is that you've had people talking about net zero for a while
07:44
but now people are starting to actually say well what does net zero really mean in the context of this science actually. And has anyone heard of the ISO here, ISO standards folks? Okay they come up with something really interesting that they published in November. They basically said if you want to call something net zero you actually need to have some teeth behind it
08:02
and need to actually mean something now. So while there's been lots and lots of green washing net zero targets and things from those organizations they've basically come out and said actually this is the kind of stuff you need for net zero now. And they've basically said if you have net zero claims by 2050 without having anything related to halving emissions by 2030
08:21
they're not credible. If you don't include your supply chain to just only think about your own things rather than like who made a computer or anything like that, not credible. And also if you don't have any interim targets in the next few years, also not credible. This is quite important because seven years is about the same time as the average tenure for a CEO.
08:41
Which basically means you can say oh we're going to be net zero, leave, then it's someone else's problem to solve. And this is then basically saying actually you need to have something now so you can't do that kind of stuff. What's also interesting in Europe specifically is the catchily titled European Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive. Basically if you were in a company which has more than 250 employees, you need to be recording
09:04
and reporting some information about what your carbon emissions look like. And you need to start reporting in 2024 which means you need to be reporting two months ago to start doing this. So that is interesting because lots and lots of organizations don't even have a sustainability team
09:22
and don't even know how to start reporting this stuff. And then finally the IFRS, sorry about all the acronyms. These folks are, you can think of them as like the pope of accounting. They're the people who just basically set a decree which everyone then follows in accounting land. They've basically said that supply chain thing that people talk about, yeah actually we should be doing that
09:43
and you can't just say about your own organization rather than all the things you buy from other people for example. So that's what people have been saying. And how are we doing so far? Like as a tech sector, right? So there's good news and there's bad news. The good news is that well we have seen lots and lots of use and more people are connected to the internet
10:04
which I think is broadly speaking a good thing and I don't know about you folks but I quite liked having access to the internet during the pandemic. I think that's been more useful and it would be a lot more kind of lonely and sad and cold and everything if I wasn't connected to that. And you generally see that we've basically been using much, much more in the way of digital services
10:24
over the last say 10 years or so but the growth hasn't been that large really. It hasn't been proportional and there's a number of reasons for this. Let's, okay we can just, can we just not talk about cryptocurrency? I'm sorry, it's not helping billions of people, right?
10:41
The two billion people who join the internet, pretty sure it didn't help two billion people. Yeah, it's using like about half the impact, half the energy of all the data centers on earth, all right? So that's the thing. So we're basically going in the direction which is not ideal at the moment and we need to kind of be reducing this. And I guess there are now some companies which are trying to step up on this
11:01
and they're trying to basically say well we want to keep growing which has issues of its own but maybe one thing we can do is actually make the energy we use greener. So you now see very, very large companies like say Google say well 2030 is an important date. We're going to make sure that all of our energy is running on, all the energy we use is coming from green sources 24-7.
11:22
And 24-7 is important because, okay, you know how like you build for cloud like on an hourly basis and there's about maybe 9,000 hours in a year, yeah? All right? Normally when you look at green energy and people say I'm running on green energy, it's like an average, basically saying for all the power I've used, if I've used maybe, actually the way I describe it to people is like this.
11:45
We all know that we should probably get about eight hours of sleep, right? Or like that in a 24-hour period. And if I wanted, when you normally have green energy right now, you can basically say well I've, it's a bit like me saying I know I need to get eight hours of sleep every night and I've got a year,
12:04
so what I'm going to do is I'm going to have 3,000 hours of sleep at the beginning of the year, all right? And then I'm just going to run on Red Bull and chocolate bars for the rest of the year and that's going to be sustainable. That's kind of like annual energy balancing. That's kind of what the accounting is kind of a bit like. And there's more to it than that, but like that's what we currently have at the moment,
12:22
which is why 24-7 is actually allowable and quite an important goal. Microsoft is also doing this. They've said well they're going to run 100%, 100% zero coming with zero carbon purchases, which again sounds kind of cool and like these are companies with almost infinite money. I say almost because they use it as a basis for firing lots and lots of people
12:42
despite being really, really profitable still. But it turns out that actually you don't need to be a ginormous company with infinite money to actually kind of set this kind of target and actually be moving this quickly. This is Peninsula Clean Energy. They're based in California. They're a small community choice aggregator,
13:01
which is basically a bit like a nonprofit energy company. And they've said well actually we think we can do it by 2025 because we built the idea of avoiding an absolute climate kind of crisis into our governance board basically. And if it makes us slightly less profitable, that's okay because we're not answering to shareholders.
13:22
So they've showed that they can do that. And they've also actually shared all the actual underlying model in Python to show how they actually bought all their stuff as well. So you can actually do this. And there's something interesting in Europe that's happened in the last week actually. Do you know how Elon Musk did that whole thing where he just cut off API access to Twitter
13:40
and then everyone's like oh, now this thing I was going to do and I've started using now because I should be using and I meant to do it anyway, right? There was this kind of idea that you get around to it. Kind of the same thing happened with fossil fuels in Europe, right? So we basically had this idea where Europe has been using loads of fossil fuels from Russia and then Russia basically switched off the pipe.
14:01
And now you basically see press releases like this saying well, we've got off Russian gas folks and now we've got all this money we can spend that we would have otherwise spent on fossil fuels. So it's a bit like lemon and making lemonade, but basically the upshot is that you've basically got the European Commission president and the people who essentially run Europe saying well,
14:20
we've got a quarter of a trillion euros that we would have spent on gas and now we're planning to spend it on kind of more cool things like net-zero technology and like wind and solar and stuff, which I think is actually, well, I'll take it I suppose, right? So that's kind of what's happening at a kind of regulatory level that I think is quite interesting. And anyway, let's talk about competing on transparency for a diverse cloud ecosystem
14:43
because the thing is we basically have the science telling us we need to reduce emissions and there are some organizations which start saying, yeah, we're making all this, we're doing all this kind of big splashy stuff and it's turning out there's more in the way of resources to do this stuff. And there is this kind of narrative in policy circles right now
15:01
where all the innovation has to come from very, very large companies and I think it's not really true, particularly in like, well, basic cloud for example. There's all kinds of cool stuff that you see from small providers in Europe for example. So OVH cloud, pioneers in say liquid cooling and service as you can see here and then we're doing it for ages. Scaleway, like a French cloud provider, using ARM service for ages as well.
15:23
This is the thing that people make a big thing of but it's been just standard as well as adiabatic cooling is basically using some ideas first developed in Iran to basically reduce the use of water but still make things cool. They basically use it inside their servers rather than drawing loads and loads of water out of the local kind of aquifers.
15:40
This is important because in some parts of the world, there are Google data centers which use the same amount of water as the city they're in basically. So you should be caring about this kind of stuff. And anyway, there's loads of other examples that I've listed here. I'm sure you can read them as well. And there's also an interest at a kind of regulatory or kind of public sector level now where people are trying to actually figure out what sustainable software really looks like
16:04
and how do you standardize it and how do you procure for this. So Ocula which was released by, which was kind of celebrated by KDE recently. They have the first kind of BLOW angle, Blue Angel kind of sustainable software kind of certificate which was issued to Ocula, a PDF reader around September last year.
16:23
And this is interesting because this is the kind of stuff that people who spend money on trying to actually procure green and actually buy green in digital services are actually getting now. And if you work in a company and you're using some of the large providers, this is important because it turns out to be quite difficult to get the metrics from the very, very big hyperscalers.
16:43
This is actually a table from a person called Mark Butcher at Positive Cloud. He shared some of this with me because he was trying to figure out, well, okay, if you're using these big providers, what information can you get from them when they're in your supply chain that you need to report against? And, well, basically, I won't go into all the details here, but the red stuff is bad, right?
17:02
So if you're using the software like those two providers, not really a good one. Even on the left-hand side, you do see some information, so Microsoft is probably one of the better ones right now, but there's still some questions about what they report. Amazon, the level of reporting they give you is so, so, so low resolution
17:20
that you can't tell if the emissions are coming from one data center or another data center which is on the other side of the country, thousands of miles away. So you have some issues here because you might have one data center running essentially on coal, and you have another data center running on hydropower, which is definitely cleaner than coal, all right? And you have all this stuff here, and this is one thing that you don't really have access to
17:41
that if you need to report, you're going to have to figure out how to actually get these numbers so you can see if you're going up or if you're going down like we saw before. There's also loads of really cool open-source tooling which makes it possible to get these numbers out. So the most well-known one is Cloud Carbon Footprint. This is maintained by ThoughtWorks.
18:01
It plugs into billing APIs from, say, Amazon, from Microsoft and Google. Then they do some guesstimates based on available data to tell you what your figures might be because the various cloud providers have their own native ones which have very different assumptions to the open ones that you can challenge and you can ask questions about. Green Coding Metrics, they did a talk today.
18:22
They basically put, if you have a digital service, they'll put every single service in a kind of Docker container, then track the energy used. And I've got a really nerdy kind of part of a talk at 5 o'clock later today where I talk about some of that. Scaffold, I'm not going to pronounce that properly. It's a French word for diving helmet, or diving suit.
18:41
It basically gives you process-level energy usage metrics from any machine you run it on if you have access to the bare metal. And it spits this out that you can kind of put into dashboards and Grafana. Kepler does more or less the same thing but for Kubernetes using extended Berkeley packet filters. That's what they're called, right? Yeah. So that's another thing they do,
19:01
and there's another talk again about that kind of stuff. So there is all this stuff which you can use and plug into your tooling or you can ask people to use so you can actually get the numbers to show that you're kind of putting this in the right direction if you're interested. And I think that's my time. I'm just going to wrap up. That was a green web triangle. There are three things. You can have convenient, diverse, fossil-free.
19:20
Most of the time you can only really pick two. There's pressure right now to really push towards fossil-free being a key thing, which then really makes you decide, am I going to be diverse? Am I going to be fossil-free? I mean, the other one, convenient. You can compete on transparency, and I think this is some area that you could actually really lead on. And I think this is actually a way that,
19:42
this is probably underexplored right now. And finally, diverse ecosystems are healthy ecosystems. There's policy support, and there's money, and there's funding to make this stuff possible. And I think you should do it, and I think there's actually even a policy idea around this. The kind of word you need to use is twin transitions. That's the kind of pseudo-password
20:01
that you need to use when you speak into a policymaker. And I think that's it. Thanks, folks, for my time. There's a talk about a fossil-free internet. This talk is online with links to everything I showed you. I'm on Mastodon.social, and okay, there's probably Mr. Chris Adams on Twitter, but I don't really use it very much, but you're welcome to tweet there, I suppose. And yeah, that's my email address. Thank you, everyone.
20:27
Thank you, Chris. Open for questions? Yes. I'm also in, like, the element matrix thing-o, so if you've got a question there, I'll try and answer it as well.
20:42
Well, hello. I suppose I waited for some serious questions, but I have one, maybe a weird one. What do you think about low-Earth orbit data centers? You're talking about data centers in space that beam things down? Yes, exactly. I think they're...
21:05
If there was a way that you could get them into space without the rockets, and you can't have... There are actually some wacky ways to do that. I think it'd be cool. I think astronomers have really strong opinions about that, and also the whole idea of, like, privatization of space makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable
21:21
because we're not great at dealing with our waste right now, and if you have, like, all the waste that stops other people trans... Then I feel like that's maybe not the ideal solution, basically. Also, a little bit worried about having the guy in charge of Twitter, in charge of the future of space. Maybe, like, let's look at, like, how he's handling Twitter and think, do we want to kind of see where that goes?
21:42
I'm not sure about that. That's my answer, I suppose, but probably not related to climate. Anyone else? Hi, I just wanted to ask, what can you do as a small company,
22:04
10 to 15 people, your developing software, probably for bigger clients? I think what you can do, you can write into your contract. Actually, there's a website called the Chance Relain Project, which has all these clauses for working with larger companies.
22:21
You can also allocate some of your revenue, 1.5% of my revenue for 1.5% of us being alive, and then use that to allocate that to fund things, either internally, making your own organization greener, or by funding things like non-profit groups who are actually pushing for policy change. Stuff like that. I think those are the things you could do,
22:41
which are easy to write into a contract, which would actually show that you were demonstrating leadership compared to other people. This is also what we do in terms of training and consulting. I'm very happy to chat about that, because I probably should have told you everyone that. This is what we do as well. I'm happy to chat about that in more detail or answer questions on the element and stuff.
23:01
Hi, thank you. You showed a few lists of tools that help you get energy. This one.
23:21
How precise are they, and how many assumptions do they make to get the numbers, and what would be needed to don't make assumptions at all? Someone mentioned Elia before, didn't they? Elia was one of the German energy providers.
23:41
What we need to do is we need to get carbon emission figures from the energy providers, so they can tell you how dirty or clean the energy is at any moment in time. You need that. Basically, Schaffranger gives you very good numbers, but you need hardware support to actually share the information about this. Intel, they have something called RAPL,
24:01
which is Running Average Power Limit, which gives you an idea of the energy used by the CPU, but not necessarily the GPU or the disk. You need all this stuff instrumented for you to get this. Kepler, because you're going into the kernel, you can get really, really detailed information, but I'm out of my league here
24:21
because I can write docs, but I can't write Rust, which is why I contributed docs to Schaffranger instead of Rust to Schaffranger. Greed Coding Metrics, there's also a talk online where Ana Torrara, he talks about this in really, really good detail, and he's actually very, very knowledgeable. Cloud Carbon Footprint, everything is open source,
24:40
and it's all in TypeScript, where they are very explicit about the assumptions they make all along, and they're also open to pull requests. I've committed to code to that one, and yeah, I haven't committed code to the other two, but they're cool people, and I really support their projects. I hope that helps, and I'm, again, happy to chat in more detail. Thank you. Cool, folks, thank you.