Building a Multiconference Solution on Plone 5.2
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| License | CC Attribution 3.0 Germany: You are free to use, adapt and copy, distribute and transmit the work or content in adapted or unchanged form for any legal purpose as long as the work is attributed to the author in the manner specified by the author or licensor. | |
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Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:01
Hello everyone, welcome to track three, day one talks at Flown Conference 2020. So the first talk that we're going to have here today is going to be by my coworker Annette Lewis, and a partner of Six Feet Up, Janine Donnelly, who is from Sandia.
00:22
And the two of them together are going to present a talk about a multi conference solution that Six Feet Up had put together for Sandia. And they will give you some more details on that and talk about how that was all built. So, Annette, you may go ahead. All right, let me get my screen share up.
00:43
All right, hello, Flown Conference 2020. So once again there, I am Annette, I'm a developer at Six Feet Up, a Flown and Python developer. I've been working with Flown since 2013 in various forms.
01:00
And drifting into Python, it's always been a great fun experience. And my co presenter today. Hi, I'm Janine Donnelly, and I've been working with Annette. And they have been really instrumental in helping us come up with this multi conference system. So I work for Sandia National Labs, and I do training and event management.
01:21
So I've been doing that about 26 years. Yeah, and so today we're going to be presenting on how we collaborated to build the multi conference system that we came up with. So first I'm going to let Janine take it about the business case and how this really came to be.
01:41
So Sandia National Laboratories, we are a national laboratory that works with the Department of Energy. And the group that I work with is international security programs. So what we do, there's three different components within that group, and we do trainings and conferences worldwide. We do them domestically as well as anywhere you can think of in the world.
02:02
We work with our partners there. So next slide, Annette. So in this recent fiscal year, we handled 230 global events with over 6,200 participants in 107 countries.
02:22
And that's actually a slow year for us. With COVID, we had to actually cancel a good portion of the year. So this is actually down from what we normally do. We're one department with eight people, and this is just what we support for our department. Next slide.
02:42
So what we do in that process for these events, we have to gather a bunch of information from our participants overseas as well as domestically, which involves us doing registration. So prior to using this system, that was all being done via email. So we would send forms back and forth. People would have to fill them out.
03:00
Sometimes they'd fill them out by hand. Sometimes they would type them. Sometimes you can't read the information. Information is wrong. So we needed a system that was going to work better. So we started using clone for registration probably, I'd say seven to ten years ago. It's been moved around from certain people to other people.
03:22
So here we are. So now we're using registration, everything comes through email. We have spreadsheets, and we don't have to do that manual updating anymore. Next slide. So what we really needed with the current system that we were using, we wanted to update it so that we could increase our efficiencies,
03:41
reduce mistakes. The email traffic, as you can imagine, is unbelievable when you have hundreds of participants per event. So that's all coming through, kind of clogs up your email. And we wanted to be able to provide a better look. We're a national laboratory, so we want to have a professional look. We want people to be able to register and be able to get their documents and all of that
04:05
in a more professional manner. Next slide. So now it is back to Annette, and she is going to explain. All right, so we had somebody go down there and do a training, and just listening to their situation, we saw an opportunity to help them
04:23
and solve some of these problems and started working towards a prototype. So for our starting point, we actually started with the PloneConf 2016 policy, which is available on GitHub, just to show them some of the features and some of the functionality and say, this is a potential of what you could do to help organize your conferences and your events.
04:42
And we felt that they could really benefit from that. So the first thing we did was come up with a prototype based on that add-on and built upon its functionality to adjust some of the specific tasks that we heard they were trying to accomplish. So like one of the things that we did was add the conference content type, and that would be a sub-site, so each event could be its own sub-site.
05:03
And then pre-configured these sub-sites with some folders and your speakers, talks, some of the content types, a bit opinionated, to help them get an organized site structure that could be consistent between the groups. And then also made some registration templates based on the client's needs of forms that they would need for registering people
05:23
so that they could have this already pre-built and ready. And one of the big goals, of course, when coming up with the prototype, was thinking, if I was a conference organizer, what did I wish we had? And listening to them and saying this is what they wish they had, and then kind of coming together and making something that can automate repeatable tasks
05:42
and leave time to manage other aspects of the event instead of having to just build a site over and over again. Now I'm actually going to throw this back to Jeanine again, because once we got this prototype together, we handed it over, and then it was their time to evaluate it and actually see how it worked in the wild.
06:07
Sorry, I guess it would be helpful if I actually unmuted, I apologize. So we have approximately 20 sites on a new server that is now using this new system. So what we have found, the system works great,
06:22
and actually we've added a lot of things for usability for our users who don't really have a lot of experience using this kind of system. So really our goal from my department, our goal was to be able to provide a system that you would be able to use on your own. Like we set it up initially, and then we hand it over to you,
06:42
and instead of having to keep coming to us, you can do it yourself. So everything is set up for the user to make it as easy as possible. They don't have to know coding. They don't have to know how to change things up. They go in and they basically go through a list, and they can pick their own image that they want for the top of their page.
07:01
They can turn on videos. They can turn on a section that we call capabilities where they can talk about the things that their departments do. They pick their own registration form. We have a number of different kinds of trainings that require different information. So based on that, we had to come up with different forms because we can't ask people for their personal information
07:21
if we don't need it. If I don't need your passport information, I don't want to ask for that. So we have different forms based on what kind of training courses we're doing that ask for specific information. If you're coming on site, there's different information. For our U.S. citizens, there's different information. If you're coming from a foreign country, there's things that we need to do for you.
07:40
So they're able to pick what they need, and it populates on its own, which has really made that feature for them really awesome, and they're able to use it. They get emails from the system every time someone registers. It will download to a spreadsheet. So our initial push-out has been really well received, and what we're finding now is as people are using it,
08:02
they come back to us with different kinds of things that they need, a little tweak here, a little tweak there that increases the system, and it makes it better for everyone. So we're able to add those in, and we're able to use it across the board. Regardless of what group you are, the whole system gets pushed out to everyone, which has been really useful and helpful for everyone.
08:22
So we're still making changes, which is great. That was what we intended. So back to you, Annette. Right. So one of the really great benefits about hearing all of this feedback is that really makes this a collaborative process for us. So after getting some feedback
08:42
and we have the test runs and there's more people use it, we get to sit down and think about how we can actually expand the system and make it work even better every time and keep going forward with that. So now we're getting to what we call the multi-conference core. And now as more people started to hear about it,
09:01
more people started to want it, different stakeholders and different groups became interested in this. So we started working with different groups and having regular exchanges of ideas, and we wanted to listen to the client, we wanted to distill out key items to tackle, and then also suggest features that we really felt could benefit them. And then once again,
09:20
on the team of people who are working on this project, several of us have experienced planning conferences. So we could really pull on that personal experience as well and add things to solve challenges that we have run into to make a smoother experience for the end users who are gonna get this product. Also a huge benefit to us working with them
09:40
that we've been demoing for groups and doing training for groups. And as we allow someone to do a training, one of the things you do as a trainer is just, you listen to what people say, you listen and you watch, you see if they have any difficulties, if there's anything that they're struggling with, if there are anything that they're really excited about and kind of capture those questions and comments.
10:01
And then we wanna review them to see if we can distill out more helpful features or documentation or anything to help them have an easier time and to enjoy using this product even more. And then what was very interesting working with Sandia is with working with multiple stakeholders, that stakeholder was often representing an entire group.
10:23
And so they would bring us back feedback from an entire group. So instead of working with one or two people, we were working with a large pool of people. So we had all kinds of different views and perspectives on how this could be used. And then we could take that information, bring it back to home base, discuss it and figure out what works best.
10:43
And always keeping in mind, we wanted to keep things flexible. We wanted to make sure that they could still manage this very easily. And we wanted to keep a lot of the through the web capabilities so that they didn't have to dive into code and their users could just make a site very quickly. And of course, with multiple stakeholders,
11:01
the one thing we always have to be conscious of is diverging features. Sometimes we get an idea that's really cool, but it's gonna affect the group, especially since this system gets pulled out to the whole organization. We wanted to make sure that we weren't just discussing with the stakeholders, but if something diverged to the stakeholders, we'd get a meeting together and discuss with them
11:23
and come on to a consensus on what would be the best way to tackle that feature. So now let's actually go into the live demo and just take a look at what the system actually looks like. Other way. So here I have the multi-conference event management system
11:43
and this is actually just the homepage view of it. And let's see, right here, I want to point out a couple of things that we have is, this is just a homepage that we have built in for them. It's actually built in Mosaic and we built a set of tiles
12:02
so that they could make their own homepage and everyone can have a site and kind of design the front end without us having to come in and customize everything. So we gave them some options of colors and background colors and a variety of different tiles that they can kind of piece together and look for their own page.
12:23
But then once you're into this site, the chief thing that we wanted to do was make sure the event management was easy. So if you go to add new, we've added a new conference event type, content type. And you can set your title for your conference at home.
12:44
And we have a set of registration forms. As Janine mentioned, different groups have different requirements and different needs. So we actually are using a vocabulary here that detects what forms are in the root of the site and then we'll let you choose from any of those forms
13:00
when you're creating your new event. So I'm going to choose my bird conf registration form here. You get a banner image cause it's a sub-site and it makes up your own little site layout. So you can select an image. Let's use this guy. And then we actually added in this time zone feature
13:20
because as we talked to our clients more, we realized not all of them were in the same places and not all of the events were home to the same time zone. So this allows them to designate a time zone clearly on their event, along with using the event behavior that's already built into Plone. It's great when Plone has a behavior that you can just stick on to a content type
13:40
cause you don't have to recreate that code again. And then each event can have its own contact person for email, name and event, stop. And we actually feed that into this when we create it. So that should be enough for me to create an event. And so now I've got my header image.
14:02
So I've got my own little sub-site and it's opinionated so that we have the speakers, talks, classes and document folders are already pre-made for you. And then right here, you can see my brave comp registration form was copied, the template for the base site into this site. And that allows them to create their own forms
14:22
or customize their forms so that they can have one similar form for everything and then just move through the different sites where they need it. Also, I have this about folder and in the main site, I'll go back for a moment. There's a templates folder and we actually preload this
14:40
with some predetermined content that's helpful for them in the events and the types of things they plan. But anything in this templates folder will be copied into your child's site when you make it. So that way, if you have specific information or payment details or lunch, you can always just copy that template and the new site creator doesn't have to recreate it again.
15:03
And then once you do that, you have your form, you can fill that out, but I'm actually gonna flip over to my bird comp 2020, which I've actually prepared ahead of time. And some of the other things that you can do is we added an action to view attendees. So that way you have attendee management.
15:23
And right here, I've already registered twice, Blue Jay and Tufted Titmouse. And what I can actually do is if I said I had like a private conference or I needed to manage the group of users, you can go ahead into the registration form
15:44
and actually approve these users. And I can go ahead and apply those changes. And that way I can head back to this view attendees page. I need to go to the main, from the main of the site.
16:02
And now they're approved. And I can sync this with my attendees group. So you can actually manage content. So if you had like a members folder or an intranet or something, this would actually go ahead and sync these to that group automatically. And now the top level of the site,
16:21
I can see these members in these groups. So we really try to automate a lot of this process to help them manage their things more easily and to help them predetermine, well, help them make a predetermined skeleton to keep them on brand. So going out of my demo,
16:41
another thing that we really tried to do is make it easier for the user management, not just from the conference admin level, but from the site admin level. And so we added the conference admins, conference organizer role. And this is a new role to kind of limit what these admins could do.
17:01
So that way they could add a conference admin who had the power to create a new event. They had the ownership of their event once they created it. So in that sub-site, they could act like an admin, but they could still only see the rest of the website as if they were a normal visitor. So they could only read pages that were public.
17:21
They couldn't edit content. And that way they can control the security of these people moving through these sites. So you didn't have to give them the entire site ability to be able to modify a site. And I talked about the conference creation a little bit in the pre-configured sites.
17:41
And one of the things that happens is we have a number of events that's happening behind the scenes. So the sub-site is, we're actually using lineage child sites for each of the sub-sites. And one of the reasons we chose lineage in particular is lineage has a couple extra add-ons as well for a sub-site. For example, there's the lineage theming add-on
18:01
that allows you to apply an individual diasal theme. So if they wanted to theme their site a little bit different, they have that ability there. We've also got a couple of event subscribers and that's what's putting together our content as far as copying those folders over. And something that I think is really pretty cool
18:20
that we did is when you copy over the registration form, the email address and the contact information that's there, those mailers are actually configured to send mail to the conference contact. So the users don't have to go into the registration forms and reset their mailers and do all of that.
18:40
When you edit or save that conference site for the first time, the mailers for the form are set and it will contact the person who set as the conference contact. Another thing that we're using is that with the event behavior, that means we can use the event aggregator. And so if you go to the events page,
19:01
the conferences show up if you want them to, or we can turn them off. Now, registration is one of the biggest things that we were focusing on when we made this. So the registration templates are made using easy form and we're using generic setup to import them back into the site. And we picked that specifically
19:22
over using like a Python schema, because it's imported as like an XML schema, which means the users can edit that through the web very easily. So they can go into the settings and they can modify things and they can customize the forms, but we provide them the route. So if that form suits them, they can just use it as this. If they want to modify it,
19:41
they can copy it and make a new form. And then once again, that becomes available when you create a new event as a format you can select. We also allow them to, as I said, view that attendees registration list and send emails if they need to. There's some data save adapters that are put in to save some basic data
20:01
that they might need for their day-to-day operations. And then some of that attendee approval, attendee management part there, which is not required, but could be useful, especially if they have a private conference that they want to just keep to themselves.
20:21
So why the subsites in particular? Cause yes, we could probably make folders and just let each folder be its own place, but we really liked the subsite because it gives each conference organizer the feel that they have their own website. So instead of making a number of sites per year, they can all be housed within the parent site,
20:41
but they can all have their own kind of look and feel, but still be on brand. And that's really great for consistency of the brand of that particular group or organization that makes sure, especially in this, that it's done in an improved and prescribed way that is required of the parent organization.
21:01
And also it allows the returning attendees to see consistency and have a familiar experience. So if they're a return, it's not a whole new thing every time they get a consistent experience, especially if it's like a training event or something that's an annual event, any kind of repeat event, they get to feel a sense of familiarity
21:21
when they come back and not have to learn a whole new system every time. The nice thing I've also really enjoyed with the subsite is that you can delete them, you can archive them, you can copy and paste and reuse them if you wanted to. And since it lives in the parent website, it's easy to find it in the future. And I know in some projects I've worked in in the past
21:42
where you make lots and lots of websites, it's really easy to lose track of how many sites you have out there. Whereas if all the events are made within the parent site, you could look at the contents folder and you can see these are all the events we have here. So you've got that running history that you can publish, archive, privatize,
22:01
use as a template. You have that there, it's easy to find. And someone new in boarding onto the team could say, oh, this is where it all is. I don't have to go track it down or find the paper trail and try and figure out where did this come from? Now, one of the things that we did,
22:21
and this has been a big part of us collaborating back and forth is with the conference landing page. So some features that we've been building in aside from like those pre-configured folders, which is to help us make a guide for the philosophy of how to make that website is we've gone ahead and we've added some constraints.
22:40
And I'll actually go back here. So to help make it easier to organize and make sure that like information that comes into places that seems to make sense, we've added folder constraints. So the speakers folder, you can only add a person or a keynoter. The talks folder, you can only add a presentation.
23:00
Classes is only training classes. And I think documents is only files. And that helps someone who might not be as familiar with building a website to follow some good organizational philosophies on how to organize a website. And this also helps us with programming ahead of time
23:22
and being able to say, well, speakers will be in the speakers folder in pretty much most cases. So we can search in this folder if we need to build some type of feature that shows all the speakers or such. Now, I haven't added speakers to the site, but we also added the ability
23:40
to list speakers on the home site. So there's like a little button here where you can say display the speakers list. So if there's speakers in the site, it'll display a list of speakers on the website. And then we also have ability to show an agenda on the main site based on the talks that you have. And you would just use this collection
24:01
and do a search for whatever exists and it'll make that agenda. And so that way without programming knowledge, these conference admins can start to really customize some of the things that end up on their website without having to try and configure anything or having to come back to us. So those are some presets that we put in
24:21
for building out their conference. Another thing that's really great about the templates folder in particular is that once again, if there's any content that needs to be pre-approved, so like if there's needs to be pre-approved banner images or pre-approved documentations or forms, that template's gonna bring that over. And then the conference admin
24:42
who has the owner rights inside the folder will have the ability to use that content in their website or delete it if they really don't need it in that case. One of the other really cool things that I've really liked that we've put in is this vocabularies tab. And this is a per site management of these details.
25:01
So that way, each conference admin can say what type of talk duration. So whether it's 30 minutes, long talk, short talk, half day, training class durations. And also like if there's any level types or audience types or all of that can be set right here. And once this is set, if I go and say, I need to add a presentation.
25:24
So I'll add a presentation here. Those values are what are gonna show up in these forms. So they can customize all of this right at that conference custom type. And then all of that will show up available for them to use when building out their sites.
25:48
So for the look and feel, and what we ended up doing here is that we have a base theme and a diazza per se. So the base theme is gonna take care of most of our look
26:01
and that way they have a theme that's pretty nice and it looks great between all of the sites. But then we have a diazzo on each one theme that they can customize a little bit more if they really need to. But then we also brought in a site settings control panel. And that control panel in particular,
26:23
going back to site settings, has a bunch of content settings that helps them interact with the theme without having to go into the theme. So here they can set the title of their site and then they can set some footer content that's gonna show up in their site as well.
26:41
They have the ability to turn on and off the login link if they don't need that. They can add a site logo, their own site favicon. And this is for the site level. And then they can actually make some changes to their colors and such. So if I'm gonna pick something pretty tame here,
27:01
tame but should show up. If I do that, now I've got my purple header. And so we've added some values that we, going back and forth were some of the values that they would like to be able to customize. And so that allows them to have this basic theme, not have the coding knowledge, and then be able to pick different colors,
27:23
different accent colors, and really start to make this look a little bit like their own site and their own brand without having to, once again, get into code. So it's always been a focus on flexibility, ease, management, but especially when you're using something that has a base template system,
27:42
we always want to make sure they have the ability to customize and feel like, oh, this is my site and this is my own individuality. Now, going back into the front page, which I talked about a little bit before. So we talked about having a mosaic layout
28:01
for the front page. And we provided two options. We actually have this add new front page view, which is an opinionated front page. And it just has a set of predetermined sections that they can fill out that would give them a nice front page. And it looks very similar to this. And I will open that up.
28:21
There we go. And it's got different sections that they can fill out and they can enable or disable these. But then we felt after we did this section, maybe someone might want to reorganize them or change the order, or maybe they need two video sections. And so to give them that kind of flexibility,
28:44
we made several mosaic tiles that they could use. And so they can use from these different tiles to kind of give them different feels. And in this case, I used the call out images to just do images and cue text titles. This is a rich text tile, and this is our banner tile.
29:04
But I could also add forms. So I could embed a form into the site. I can add an iframe, which is great if they need a map or need to embed a specific piece of content. We've got the video embed if they want to embed videos from Vimeo or, and that's using a lot of Pwn's base features
29:23
and just putting them into tiles that they can just click and select and drag and drop. In this case, I'll try the call out boxes, which I will do a title. And we actually allow them to use icons here. So if they know I'm gonna use linear home,
29:41
which is one of the icon names, but they can determine from this list of linear icons, the icon they would like to use. And that icon will show up at a box. And only the first one is required in each frame. So they can use one box and they can use up to four different boxes here.
30:01
And let's drop that right there. So that's my linear house. And then we gave them these color formats and I'm actually gonna use this dark accent background color. So now I've got that dark blue. And that's just an example of some of the customization we gave them. But this once again,
30:20
throws back to our site settings cause we actually allowed them in site settings to pick two colors, the dark accent and the light accent. So that blue is not really jiving with my purple. So I think I want that to be darker. So I'll save that
30:41
and I'll head back to my homepage and now it's gonna match my color. So that way they can really start to customize. We've given them some predetermined colors, but they can pick colors to stay on their brand as well. So the biggest thing,
31:01
especially with this particular thing, and especially when we can collaborate so closely and have so many meetings and so much feedback with our users and users. And it's really awesome to be able to talk with not just the stakeholders, but to be able to train and demo for some of the end users that are gonna be creating sites is that I get to hear directly
31:22
some of the things that they hope for. And that also makes a challenge because we have to define that balance between standardization and flexibility, especially since we're automating so many things. And when you automate something, you really kind of expect it to be named a certain way
31:40
or in a certain place because you need to grab or talk to or find that. So in this approach, we've taken almost a modular approach where we've provided lots of different building blocks, lots of different pieces that are predictable, that they can customize to an extent. But then we also have some of those flexibilities. So once again, like adding new forms,
32:02
we've made it so that we can just search for the forms and that's a flexible aspect or the extra folders and the templates folder. So that's flexible, but we've added the ground work for where those should be and where those need to be in the sites so that we can find them and have all of our automated processes go against that.
32:22
So I think definitely coupled with the trainings and getting feedback and having the end users talk back, we've been able to build a pretty ideal solution that covers a variety of use cases for a number of teams and the number of users. Oh, back to Janine.
32:45
Excuse me. So, okay. So we've been using clone as a registration site for probably 20 years now over at Sandia, but mostly in our international programs. So in the last couple of years,
33:00
we've been able to kind of expand and get it out within the corporation. So we're trying to expand and get it out corporately because we have so many groups outside of us who are trying to do conferences and trainings or have annual meetings that are just kind of going out and setting things up in places that we're really not supposed to.
33:20
So what we're trying to do is keep everything in house and kind of pull those groups in and give them a means to have something that they can go to that's quick and easy, that's already set up, that meets all of our security requirements, that is behind our firewall and takes care of all of those things that they really need. So we've kind of come a long way
33:41
and in some ways COVID has been good for us because it has given us the time and it's given us the funding that we needed to kind of take this to the next level that we've been trying to do for probably about five years. So for us, it's been a little bit of a mixed blessing to kind of have the time to sit down and go through it with our normal schedule,
34:01
we would have never been able to do this. So we cannot thank Annette and our team over at Six Feet Up enough. So Annette, I'm gonna hand it back to you. Yeah, it's been great to see this through because I started with Six Feet Up in March.
34:22
So I came like right into the middle of this project, but it's amazing over the time how many different things we've done. And once again, like the fact that I even have one of my stakeholders here to present with me, I think really speaks to being able to collaborate so directly and so strongly.
34:42
And I know we might be doing some of the groundwork and the legwork and the physical work, but I really feel that we did build this product together. And it's really awesome to see it going into the wild and this organization and seeing all the different people using it and all the use cases. So I really appreciate the opportunity as well Janine
35:01
to be able to work on such a project. And I'm pretty sure all of us at Six Feet Up have been really excited to see this going out into the wild and look forward to listening and just seeing what else we can do to help you and make this process even easier for you in the future. Thank you. I just got some new changes today,
35:21
Annette, we'll talk later. I'll see you later, I guess. Okay. Well, yeah, that's it. So thank you for coming to our talk again. If you ever wanna contact us, we have our stuff up there, our information, but once again, I'm Annette at Six Feet Up, web developer, and this is Janine and yeah, Chrissy.
35:44
All right, so stick here for just a minute cause they were a couple of questions that we had in Slido. First of all, Carl had a couple of questions for Janine asking, do you have any feeling or numbers on how much time has been saved with the multi-conference system lab wide?
36:01
Wow, I can't really give you a good number on that, but what I can say is in a fiscal year by myself, I handle about 160 training events on my own with a minimum of 35 participants, not including trainers or interpreters
36:21
and my big events are easily over a hundred. So I would say that I probably, it's probably three to four full-time employees that we don't have to use that I'm able to handle those events on my own just by using this system. So it's really saved us huge amounts of time
36:42
and now that it's kind of spreading and we're getting more access, our upper management is starting to use it for their meetings. It's really kind of getting out there, which is great. So it does save us huge amounts of time. We're even able to have participants send us their documents within the system so that it's not coming through our email.
37:02
So it kind of goes through this way. It's much more secure than when they send us unencrypted personal information. So I would say, yeah, at least three to four people that we don't have to have on staff on a regular basis just based on this system.
37:22
And do you know how many departments are using it currently? Right now, my department is the biggest user. Like I said, we have eight people in that department and we have started spreading out to other groups. Our executive protocol group, they handle a large number of events. So there's probably,
37:41
I would say five to six other groups right now and we're working on expanding that out corporately to everyone to make it something that's available to them. Great, thank you. There was one other question in there from Alec asking how is the block transform order
38:02
configured like from an add-on? So I'm not sure if that question was specifically about Mosaic. Me neither. Okay, well Alec, how about, so here's what we're gonna do next is in Loudsform just beneath here, you'll see a link to join a Jitsi room.
38:20
It's gonna say watch together and or talk to the speaker, join, click the join face-to-face button and you'll be able to ask Annette and Janelle any more questions that you have. So, I mean, that's one question that we can talk about some more, get more information there. So go ahead and join that and I'll see you all at the next talk. Great.