All right, it's 10 o'clock. Please welcome Peter Larsen to tell us a bit about remote work and corona times and his experiences. Okay, thank you very much, Max. So, good morning, party people. Hope you're all fresh. We are Klein Arbor Fine, a small and fine group today.

What you're looking at here is the view that I had on the 28th of April, early this year, because I'd started getting up at five o'clock in the morning to go and photograph. Later, I started running in the morning as well at this god-awful time of

stupid o'clock, getting up at five and being out and running at half past five. Later, I started cycling at that time as well. That was a really direct consequence of the corona situation. So, for me, in a lot of ways, life has changed radically because I'm working

at home now. I myself have to be a bit careful with the whole corona thing. And so, yeah, my life has changed, but really, for the better. I've started doing sport. I'm spending a lot more time outside.

I'm getting up a lot earlier in the day. But I ask myself the question, to what degree has it really, really changed? And that's what the talk is about today is that everything changes, but in some ways, everything remains the same.

As Mike said, my name is Peter Larsen. I'm an agile coach at Trusted Shops. Trusted Shops provide security or trust for people buying online. I wasted my use with video games, worked with a company you may have heard of called Electronic Arts,

doing design, advertising, marketing, and later product development on games like Medal of Honor, Command and Conquer. I'm quite old, so I was born before Man walked on the moon. And about five years ago, I decided that what I really liked to do was to deal with the people who make games and products

rather than the product themselves. That's why I moved over to be a scrum master and now an agile coach. I serve three teams at Trusted Shops, two data services teams and an office IT team, which I enjoy very much.

I've got some great people working that I'm allowed to help. Yeah, and so this is the theme for today is how everything changed, but some things, really fundamentally, everything remains the same.

This is one of the things that the top line of what I'm going to talk about today is that most of us work with a background of constant change. Right, so while the coronavirus crisis has turned our working lives on its head, in fact, what I'm

going to argue is that what's important are the existing values, principles and practices that we work with. And even though we sit in different places and we use different tools, the basic core team dynamic has not fundamentally changed.

That's my argument for today. So what happened? Well, corona arrived at Trusted Shops. They were relatively, the leadership was relatively, was very careful, very conservative.

It took a very safety orientated approach. It took very, very fast decisions. And from the start on, it wasn't so like, oh, we've got to wait to hear what's going to happen.

They were very good at taking fast decisions. And so they were reacting to this crisis that had just arrived. But in fact, if you've got good management, good leadership, be it on a team level, be it on a department, business unit or company level, or politically,

we could perhaps see that in the political discourse in Germany at the moment, that they're taking a fair while to make the decisions. But that wasn't the case with us. Decisions were made very quickly.

So in a response to this new situation. But in fact, that should be a normal state of affairs, right? That's my argument. What was very, very good was a very clear communication about expectations from the, of us as employees and as teams, what the company was doing and what the current policy was.

So we still today get a daily email directly from the CEO, talking in the first part of the email, always about what's the current state of affairs as pertains to corona. And then it will also talk about changes that have taken place within the company, often with relationship to corona.

So what happened? Well, we all went off home. We packed up our stuff. And within about a week, we all went home during one week.

And it was kind of like, okay, you can start going, well, we were told directly go home now if you want to. But at the very latest, by the end of the week, I think this was in March. And so we literally packed up our stuff. Some of us have laptops, but some of us have towers as well.

So that was a fair job to get everything packed up and taken off home. But we did it. We just packed up our stuff and went home.

So this caused a lot of kind of, oh, my God, is this going to work? A lot of consternation, a little bit of panic, some insecurity. But in fact, very quickly, we kind of got the feedback, well, that went rather well, surprisingly.

That in fact, particularly our office IT people did an awesome job of getting us all home and helping us, some people technically just with information, others with hardware, et cetera.

But this kind of shows that I think two weeks before it happened, I think more than half of the company would not have been able to imagine that this would happen. But in fact, because we had to do it, we did it. We say necessity is the mother of invention or in Germany, Nordmarkt der Findervich.

So this was the first big surprise was, hey, I haven't grown two heads. I haven't turned blue. The world hasn't exploded and we are working very well. Many of you may have seen this joke like going around about who led the digital transformation of the company.

Was it the CEO, the CTO, or was it COVID-19? And I think it's very, very clearly the case that Corona opened our eyes to possibilities of things which were possible. So you could say that's a big change, that's something new, which is true in a way.

But people like me who are working on making organizations more agile, making them leaner, believing that new ways of working are important, we're working on this digital transformation all the time.

I'm sure a lot of you are as well. And so, again, whilst this all happened very quickly and it was a big change, in fact, it was just accelerating something that was already going on, which was to try and make companies more agile, faster moving, leaner.

A lot of the stuff that we had to deal with immediately at the start was filling the hardware gaps, for example. So simple things like headphones. So the headphones I'm wearing now, I'm wearing because I got feedback

that these small plug-in things actually are very irritating for the listeners. And so simple practical improvements like dealing with hardware was one of the first steps that we had to take, and that worked quite well.

And which was very, yeah, which was one of the most important things to begin with, a really, really practical job. Again, that's really something that we're doing every day, that we're helping our colleagues to communicate better, be it either in their communication skills or with equipment they have.

Another big aspect was the tools that we needed. So, for example, most of us working in product development, we have our walls full of pictures, right? We have our walls full of our work, our roadmaps, our values, our principles,

our tickets, our sprint boards, all that stuff is up in the wall, and suddenly that stuff had been taken away from us. So one example, something that we needed to deal with very quickly was things like whiteboard tools.

And also other tools. The people suddenly had to share files in a different way. We had to get some people up and running with file PN, a VPN which they weren't used to having to use because they were always in the office. So the whole tool thing was a big challenge.

But again, just filling in gaps which appeared through the change of working from onsite to remote. So really practical stuff. And just for me as an Agile Coach or Scrum Master,

simply helping people remove impediments so that they could do their job. Of course, one of the things that we really love about working in the office is meeting each other for coffee or going for lunch together

or taking a walk in the park, taking a break. And so one of the things that we really focused on early on was creating lots and lots of social spaces. So what you see here is the Friday afternoon pub which starts at 4 o'clock, run by a good colleague of mine

and a fun guy in HR. And it's not run because he's in HR. It's run by him because he likes doing this stuff. And he really had the idea of a pub with a quiz. Another time we played bingo.

And so we made a big effort to make that a fun place to meet and to be a replacement for meeting in the kitchen, going for lunch, popping to the next door office and talking to each other. Social spaces also were created on team level

and things like Slack has a feature. Phone a random colleague and speak with this person. The research that came out, some of the first research that came out was that people were having more meetings that were shorter with fewer people.

And I think what that meant was that people who were before talking to each other one on one or one on two in the office were now using GoToMeeting, Zoom, Slack, whatever tools you're using

to simply catch up with each other both on a social and on a professional level. We had a big focus particularly as servant leaders in our group

was in the first few weeks doing lots and lots of one on ones speaking with people. How are you doing? Do you need anything? Can we help you? What's it looking like at home? Are you having to work on your own? Are you working? And not that we wanted to snoop into people's lives

but we did want to know whether they were doing well if they were okay. And so to begin with we did lots of one on ones. A couple of people are not so comfortable with video communication. I don't know if it's a cultural thing in Northern Europe or whatever

but I had to dig up some research that shows that communication when you can see each other is much, much more efficient than if you can't see each other. So the jump, you know yourself perhaps, the jump from email to a telephone call and then the jump from a telephone call to a video call, they're enormous.

They're really, really big in terms of having empathy, understanding the person that you're speaking with and so we had to do a little bit of work on making people understand the value of being able to see each other when you work together.

So for a while it was very much kind of corona everywhere all the time. So the servant leaders in our team were kind of speaking about it all the time. We're speaking with the people in the teams all the time. Almost everything that we were doing so it's like what does planning mean in corona?

How does the daily run in corona? What are people's mental, you know, mental health? You know, are people okay? What does it mean for the individual people, team members, this whole corona thing?

You also find out, you know, some people are really kind of, I'm young, I'm healthy, I'm not worried about it. Some of us are older and beginning to fall apart and so we need to be a little bit more careful and so all these issues came up both like on a personal level, professional level, on an individual level, a team level and a company level

and it felt for a while that it was like corona everywhere all the time and certainly the feeling was very much kind of like oh bloody hell, it's a nightmare but it very much went from nah to yay, the feeling.

Now obviously you can't generalise about everyone, right? So different people have different responses to this stuff and I'll speak about two distinct groups a little later on and how different the whole experience were for those two groups.

I think one of the key challenges was loneliness, you know, that some people, I myself went literally months without having any face-to-face contact with anyone except my daughter. I mean literally months of all my contact was digital.

Now worryingly when I was doing really, really well, I felt mentally fit, I felt positive and maybe because I, that perhaps a digital communication is enough for me and seeing my daughter once a week is enough for me, I don't know.

But certainly I think this was one of the early feedbacks was that people were feeling lonely because they were kind of being ripped out of this environment where they were spending seven, eight, nine hours a day with people who were good colleagues and also friends in many cases.

Another issue that people were feeling was like they were living on the building side. So where I'm sitting is part of my living room but I have a desk and kind of the desk area is my work area and it looks like the rest of my living room but I kind of have a mental demarcation between that desk

and the rest of the room and the desk doesn't look too bad. But certainly some people had real problems with, you know, I've got this lovely place I live in and suddenly I've got an extra PC there, I've got cables everywhere, I've got an extra screen.

That by the way was a big thing on the hardware side was people bringing their screens home that working on two or three screens was a real secret to success and was a real help to people.

But you guys, you people, you probably know that yourself. And then people were having technical issues be it like in my case being a technical fatwit and not having, needing lots of support from my technical colleagues or it could be we've had to replace some hardware

because of coffee accidents or unknown accidents and so helping people with all these technical issues, updating, drivers, whatever, that was a big part of it.

Coming to the point about two different groups, it's very, very clear that there's a huge difference between the people with families and particularly young families with really young kids and singles. So I think a lot of us singles, we loved it, we had a great time.

Or people who are just in pairs where both pairs are working and they have enough space to give each other space during the day, I think it really, that can work really, really well. But the people with families, they had a real challenge

and I think for example we'd have conferences and the child would enter the room of the person speaking at the time and he or she would be really embarrassed and I think a lot of us made a big effort to say hey, this is part of our new working world, we should be and in fact kids make us human.

It's not a bad thing to hear the sounds of a child in the background and we have to accept that this is one of the things where we have to be flexible in how we deal with our colleagues who have children but this is certainly something

where I do think there was a big, big difference and when I say I think some of our colleagues with children, if they saw my proposition that everything changes but really everything stays the same, they'd say are you mad, right? They would think I'm crazy because they have a different experience

so I'd like to underline that. It certainly is much more difficult for people with young families. But us singles, we had a great time, right? We saved on commuting time and everything and so if we look a bit at the other side of things,

on the positive side of what happened at the beginning or what's been happening during the corona time is the big, big thing and this is not just something that trusted shops or with the people I know but this has actually been reflected in questionnaires and research that's being done

is that the added autonomy, the fact that the team manager, the team lead, the department manager, the director, whoever is not standing and looking over people's shoulders and they're having to make more decisions themselves, they can organize their day better literally because they're not being observed

and they're not being controlled by some kind of manager. This is one of the huge things and I think this comes up and really strong numbers on this all the time and so I think this is where the corona situation has really opened up the eyes of a lot of people because working autonomously,

working with responsibility, taking responsible decisions, taking responsibility for your own actions, for your own output, for your own organizing yourself. It's not just managers who think that they know everything

and they need to micromanage everyone. It's also individual employees, team members who've been used to working in an environment where they're told what to do all the time and suddenly this person's not there

and so I think it's coming from two sides. It's showing companies and management that individual employees and teams can work autonomously really, really well but it's also making it really clear to the people who haven't had perhaps the courage or the inclination

to take that responsibility to be autonomous themselves. So I think this is one of the big positive changes that have come from the corona situation. Now, this is not new either because this is something that people like me, coaches, we are banging on about all the time.

Here, people, please take responsibility. Please run your own, think of it as your own business. If you're motivated, if you're autonomous, you're going to have much more fun, you're going to be much more productive. So again, it's an issue that we know about but it was given a huge boost by corona.

The other thing was flexibility. So lots of things which two weeks before were never going to be possible suddenly became possible and that was in fact one of the things that our leadership said at Trusted Chops was,

hey, we are going to give you lots and lots of flexibility. I'll talk about one very specific kind of flexibility in a moment. We're going to give you lots and lots of flexibility but we want flexibility from you as well, right? So one interesting discussion, for example, was,

okay, we're now sitting at home, we're playing for coffee, we're using more electricity, obviously a lot of company work is being done now on my internet bill but on the other hand, I'm saving a load of time and saving a load of money on not having to go into the office every day.

For some people, it's like three hours and a high three-figure sum that they're saving, three hours a day and a high three-figure sum that they're saving every month. And some people are saying, great, give a little, take a little, it's a give and take thing, right?

But other people are still like, well, I need to work out down to the last penny whether I'm better off or worse off and I think that's where we're all called for to be a lot more flexible and take the chances that the opportunities are offered by this situation. But very clearly, all of a sudden, we were doing all sorts of stuff

that was never thought of before. Not so much I think in development teams because we had the idea of home office was already there but in departments like legal, controlling, sales,

where everybody really needs to sit at their desk at quarter to nine every morning, blah, blah, blah, blah. All those guys suddenly saw that there was lots of other ways of working. Also in terms of tools that we were using, how fast things happened, we had an issue in one team that we couldn't hear each other.

So a couple of us, we stuck some headphones in envelopes and sent them to the people that we couldn't hear. It's just a flexible way of doing things. The other great thing, of course, is quality of life. Not sitting in some tin box on a motorway somewhere polluting the fucking world.

This was great. I really noticed it. The first picture that you saw, that was a big, big change for me. How quiet the world turned for that few weeks where people weren't going to work and there was a real lockdown and how many more animals you saw and how fresh the air was.

I live in the city. I live in the southern part of Cologne. It's green here but it's a million inhabitant city. Certainly a lot of stuff like in terms of environment,

in terms of not sitting in a tin box somewhere on a motorway, that quality of life increased tremendously. There's also, whilst the people who had small children, they had a lot of challenges. I think several fathers said to me that this time

that they'd normally be sitting in their car in the evening, whereas now at the end of the day, they could now spend time with their child. They suddenly opened their eyes to how important that was and how valuable that was to be able to spend more time with their children.

What's very clear is that it's not like off-the-peg solutions. We thought a little bit in some terms about standard solutions but really it was very much about coming up with individual solutions

so the requirements, needs of the people working for us was very different. In fact, that's not anything new, right? That's what we do every day. We don't treat John the same way that we treat Philippa, certainly in terms of fairness and renumeration and so forth

but it's very clear that we all have different focuses and different needs and we as team members, as teammates, as servant leaders, we deal with them differently depending on what the individual needs are.

So lots of tailor-made solutions for people. I mentioned it before, sound and vision was very important so get some screens to people, get some headphones to people, help them set up, give them feedback on what's working

and what's not working on the other end of their setup. We even had tables and chairs. I don't know if chairs, chairs is probably a lie. I'm sorry, tables is probably a lie but we definitely sent chairs to people who were sitting on shitty kitchen chairs and we sent them their office chair home so that they didn't break their backs.

One big new kind of flexibility was not just that we had home office but we brought in work anywhere as a principle and so this came out really strongly, really early from the leadership of the company that they wished that all members, all employees at Trusted Shops

could really work anywhere that they wanted. Now this represented special challenges. So for example what happens about having data outside of the EU

and there is a way of dealing with that but you couldn't actually send the data to somebody who wants to work in Moscow. They couldn't deal with the data there but there is a digital tunnel solution that keeps all the data in Germany or inside the EU

but allows the person to sit outside of the EU and work on it. So this was something new that happened but really just accelerated an existing wish that some people had.

So once the dust had settled over everything I think obviously what I've touched on a little bit but not so strongly was the emotional impact of everything.

So obviously we've had one colleague who lost an uncle to COVID-19 related illness. I think a lot of people are worried about their parents. They're worried about their kids. So you shouldn't underestimate the external effects

and the emotional impact of all this stuff going on around. But I think certainly there was a feeling of okay we've made this change, we've found a way of working

and once the dust has settled then what you see is that it's really the tried and tested values and principles and practices that count. And what do I mean by that? Well, agility, the ability to pivot really quickly

to react to new markets and societal conditions and company conditions really quickly. COVID, the corona situation has showed us that we can do it

hopefully in a lot of companies. And it demonstrates how important it is to be agile. That you're not stuck there like a rabbit in the headlines frozen in their headlights and you get run over by the truck.

It's the fact you're going to be able to jump out of the way and find a new way of getting home, whatever. Another tried and tested principle is continuous improvement. We're doing this anyway. We should be looking every single day how can we improve the way we work?

How can we improve our communication? How can we improve our processes? How can we improve ourselves through learning? And so the corona situation meant that it was really important for us

to improve on, for example, the technical setups that people had. But that's nothing new. It's something that we should be doing every single day. Another thing was ownership. So we really, really needed to step up.

We needed management to have trust that we were able to do it. And we as team members, we needed to take ownership and make things happen and not ask, can you bring my coffee or my coffee is not warm enough. Warm up your own coffee, bring your own coffee.

Sort out some of these problems yourself. And I think the level of ownership of the people in the teams and the individuals was raised through this experience. But once again, ownership is a value that should be very strong anyway.

I think what's a bit counterintuitive was team spirit. So I heard from some colleagues from other companies, but people doing the same kind of job as me, that their teams were falling apart because of corona.

And then I spoke with them and said, well, yeah, and I dug into it a little bit. Okay, so it turns out these were teams where perhaps there were systemic issues beforehand. Perhaps a very common feedback was these were people who were not using video.

So they weren't looking at each other when they were speaking with each other. And surprise, surprise, the empathy that they had for each other was reduced. So my contention is that the team was broken anyway. And if you had a good team spirit to begin with, in fact, what we experienced,

certainly in the three teams that I serve, was that we kind of pulled together. In fact, even though, and what I mean that being counterintuitive is the fact that we actually geographically were dislocated.

We were working in all different places. But in terms of getting stuff done, working together, doing our retros, being open about the issues that we were facing, all that stuff was kind of strengthened through, okay, we're gonna master this thing called Corona.

We're gonna achieve a successful move from onsite to remote working. And I think this is one of the things that this was really the key thing that made me think about if the important stuff

is already in place, like the values, clear principles, teams which work together, then we will master something like Corona. And that's kind of the key of my contention that whilst a lot of stuff has changed,

essentially the core value stuff remains the same. Focus, really, really important, right? So we had to focus very much on becoming, getting back online and able to work

for a short amount of time. That was our focus. And then we could shift our focus back on creating value for end users again and creating hot shit, right? Great product again. But focus is a really important value anyway if you're working, well, if you're working anywhere, right?

And in your personal life even, focus is often important. So again, this is a tried and tested, important, old-fashioned value that came to the foreground during the Corona crisis. And then I think you had courage, you know? You had to have courage to believe that it would work.

You had courage to speak clearly with managers about what was working, what was not working. Openness and courage with yourself is like, am I really working in a way that is good for me,

good for the company, et cetera? Commitment to the team, commitment to the project of moving work from on-site to remote. But commitment is absolutely central

to whether we are productive or not, whether we, you know, feeling like getting up in the morning and doing my job is pretty central to whether what we do is any good or not, right? Openness is another really, really important value.

And you had to be open in this case to the possibilities of remote work, of, okay, what chances are represented, what opportunities are represented by this shitty situation, you know? It's like we'd all hoped for a proper pandemic

with zombies, you know? And what do we get? We get shitty Corona. Wasn't even fun, right? But we've got to be open enough to take it on and to find solutions for it. So my contention is whether we're working remote or on-site with Corona or without,

it's all about values. And this represents this representation of, you know, who are we, our self-image, our identity, the values that we hold, the principles that arise out of those values

as guided by our convictions and beliefs, which then underpin our practices and our behaviors and habits, both privately and professionally. That remains, this picture is as relevant,

even more so perhaps during Corona time as before, or hopefully there will be an after as well. So what did we learn? Well, we learned don't panic, right? And that whilst it feels like everything changes,

everything in fact does remain the same. And that's it from me, except for if I'm able to help with any questions that you may have. I see there's some here.

Restarted, restarted. Okay, so thank you for the kind feedback from faf286 and tok149. Can I help you?

Do you have any specific individual questions to our experience with Corona? Or anything else? Interpretive dance, jokes. Okay, thanks, Bitten. I think we can allow everybody to talk now

because it's such a cozy group. Thank you, Sebastian. I'm talking to the viewers who might be wanting to ask a question. If you want to unlock your microphone, you can do so now. In order to do that,

you have to click the headphone icon in the bottom of the screen to leave the audio stream and then rejoin and select your microphone. Is there anyone here who has had radically different experiences? Or do you see parallels in your own world?

I don't know what languages we have here. I suggest we're mostly Hermans. Thank you for the T-shirt, by the way.

Hey, look. I have a first come T-shirt. Beautiful. Thank you, Max. What do we think we'll keep? I think the main thing that we'll... Thank you for the question, Fafnir. I think that the main thing that we're going to keep

is anything is impossible. It's like the stuff that we preach as Agilists, right? Don't hold yourself back. Focus on what is possible, not on what is not possible. I think that's an aspect because we have the killer argument now.

Next time, somebody says, oh, no, it's not possible. I used to say the problem we have is that our real competition is some guy sitting in Hanoi or in somewhere like that.

We need to be faster. We need to get moving. We need to get our fingers out of our behinds and create value and not worry about legal shit all the time but worry about added value for the end user.

I think now we can point to this experience every single time and say, okay, we all said back then that we will not be able to introduce new tools. We all said that we would become less or a lot of managers believed that we'd be less productive if people were allowed to organize their own workday.

I think that that's going to be the main thing is the questions about autonomy, self-organization, and that the stuff is possible. I hope that answers your question, Fafnir.

Any other questions? Yeah, so you as a remote admin, 149, I think you had a lot of, okay, you had a lot of individual handling of individual problems, right?

So how do you organize meetings? Well, I'm actually, I won't use the word, the bad word in Germany, but I am very sträng. I'm very disciplinarian as regards meetings. So I say, we are meeting today in order to discuss sandwiches. At the end of the meeting, we will have decided which sandwiches we're going to eat

and where we're going to buy them. Like really, really stumpf, but that's kind of my style. But again, I think that's a great that you asked this question, Lothar, because this is another example of you have to be really clear about your timeboxing and also obviously what's the objective of this meeting?

What's your desired outcomes? And you have to be that just as much online or in person. So in terms of meetings, what has been different is that I think sitting in meetings the whole day

with headphones and video is extremely difficult. It's very tiring. And this is also borne out by the numbers. So what's happening is that people are having shorter meetings, but more of them. So I think that's one of the things that's happening.

I mean, this is something that was kind of an issue for me before Corona, but why does every single meeting have to be 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 120 minutes? There must be things which you can do in 20 minutes as well, right? And so this is something that I think

that I'd with or without Corona encourage everyone to look at which meetings don't bring any value. Can you just simply throw out? Make meetings pull rather than push. So don't oblige people to come to meetings because that suddenly means that the person who organizes

that meeting needs to think about what value that the participant has from the meeting. And also it's empirically proven that smaller meetings are more productive. So try and have smaller, shorter meetings more often. Do I think that the IT community is handling this crisis

better than the other professionals? I think in IT, we have consummate professionals who really like their systems. They don't want to introduce. I read somewhere that for a company with 200 people,

you have 100 different tools in total being used. This is an IT person's nightmare. So I'd make a big difference between office support IT and developers. I think they're two very different kinds of creatures. I don't think that we are handling it any better

or any worse. In fact, you're opening a really good, you're delivering something on a silver platter to me. And that is if the people have got the shit together beforehand, they probably got the shit together afterwards as well.

And that's irrespective of whether they're in sales, marketing, OK, let's not exaggerate. Irrespective of whether they're in sales, IT, development, whatever, if they have a good, strong foundation beforehand, they will deal with the crisis better. But I don't see a big difference between IT and,

OK, I won't be rude about marketing people and marketing and HR and so forth. I think it's also quite individual, right? Some people, and this is not about right or wrong,

but some people are very open to change and other people require a lot more security, right? And that's just personal psychology and that's perfectly OK. That's not a problem. So then we are back to us who help other people work

being sensitive to, listening to, open to these different requirements for different people. So, again, this kind of, it's not one size fits all. If any of this makes any sense to you

and you think you would have value of a further conversation with me, you can hit me up on LinkedIn under my name, Peter Larson, Cologne, or Trusted Shops and you'll find me.

And you're welcome to send me an invitation, perhaps just say Frosh Con or something like that in it. I'm also on the other one, but I don't like it, Xing. Are there any other questions for this suddenly sunny Saturday morning?

OK. Thanks for your talk, Peter. Thank you, Max, for the invitation. I really enjoyed it.