How do I get the job I want?
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EuroPython 201854 / 132
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00:00
Interior (topology)Software testingWebsiteState of matterElectronic mailing listInformationRadio-frequency identificationBitProcess (computing)Formal grammarCartesian coordinate systemPoint (geometry)Web pageSoftware testingSpeech synthesisMultiplication signContext awarenessMobile appProjective planeMathematicsBlock (periodic table)Goodness of fitGradientForm (programming)Proof theoryInheritance (object-oriented programming)1 (number)Profil (magazine)GravitationRevision controlWireless LANRight angleFamilyNoise (electronics)Data structureBuffer overflowEmailAddress spaceLink (knot theory)WebsiteOpen sourceMachine learningInformation engineeringArithmetic meanWeb portalQuicksortLatent heatStack (abstract data type)Computer virusVisualization (computer graphics)
09:44
EstimationEvolutionarily stable strategySoftware testingExpected valueMeta elementWechselseitige InformationEmailProcess (computing)BitData managementMultiplication signTask (computing)Dependent and independent variablesProduct (business)Goodness of fitRoundness (object)Cartesian coordinate systemFormal languageDescriptive statisticsPosition operatorCASE <Informatik>NumberState of matterTime zoneExpected valueInformationMatching (graph theory)PlanningSoftware testingData structureMachine visionForm (programming)Adventure gameIntegrated development environmentPattern languageCodeMereologyPoint (geometry)Right angleTerm (mathematics)Unit testingVulnerability (computing)Message passingHierarchyMachine learningChemical equationVideo gameQuicksortWeb pageMathematicsWordDrag (physics)Level (video gaming)CodeCAN busFitness functionComputer animation
19:28
Link (knot theory)BlogStack (abstract data type)WebsiteRadio-frequency identificationInheritance (object-oriented programming)CollaborationismReal numberProcess (computing)Video gameWave packetMereologyEmailCASE <Informatik>Exception handlingStack (abstract data type)Projective planeStress (mechanics)Multiplication signPoint (geometry)Open sourceBitMessage passingConfidence intervalInheritance (object-oriented programming)Expected valueSummierbarkeitVideoconferencingElectronic mailing listTask (computing)Software testingDressing (medical)Interactive televisionSource codeBuildingConnected spaceGoodness of fitBuffer overflowBlogSuite (music)Scaling (geometry)Internet forumCartesian coordinate systemCodeData conversionDemosceneFeedbackRight anglePresentation of a groupComputer animation
25:34
Projective planeContent (media)BitPoint (geometry)InternetworkingCartesian coordinate systemFeedbackProcess (computing)WebsiteBlogProduct (business)Data storage deviceTouchscreenDifferent (Kate Ryan album)Matching (graph theory)Presentation of a groupWave packetPosition operatorQuicksortAbsolute valueLine (geometry)Web portal
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:03
Hello. There's actually quite a lot of people here, more than I expected for this very nontechnical talk on this Europe Python, so I guess some of you were too lazy to leave because they had a lot of whisky yesterday, so you're welcome to stay and maybe you'll learn some things. So I have to mind the timing a little bit. And I hope I can convey
00:24
you some new things and some tips and tricks to how do you get the job I want. So I suppose that some of you are maybe right now looking for a new job, or maybe at some point in your career, sooner or later, will have to be on the job hunt, and
00:42
if your main motivation is something like this, you just want a job and not starve to death, I think, especially as an engineer or a scientist, you will have very good chances to find at least something that pays the bills, but what if you actually want a job that you enjoy doing, and that also gets you somewhere, and that you like to go into work every
01:00
day, then I can tell you a little bit more how to get that job, and you might wonder who the hell am I to tell you? I just won't wait until the newcomers arrive. My name is Francisca, or Francie, or Funny. So my actual, you might wonder a little bit
01:20
about that, my actual name is Francisca, my nickname is Francie, so my friends and my family is calling me Francie, and as I applied for TrustU, we had an HR team of one, that girl happened to be named Francie, so two Francies in a team of two people was a bit awkward, that's why I introduced the name Funny, and I'm very aware, especially
01:42
in this country, that this name is a little bit controversial, but I was thinking that also people called Dick, so I think it's just fair to have a female version of this, if there's anyone called Dick, I think you would make a great team, let me know. So you can call me any of those three names, and I'm a speaking beginner, this is the second talk I ever get to hold at a conference, so I'm very excited to be here, and that
02:03
so many of you are here to listen to me today, and I'm also a beginner in Python, so I'm learning right now a little bit, but I'm not an engineer, I work in HR, and I'm here at this conference to recruit people, and I handed in a talk, and I was thinking
02:21
I might share a little bit of knowledge with you, to how getting the job that you would like to have. All right, I am a recruiter for three and a half years, and I specialise in tech recruiting, so this is pretty much what I do every day, despite also doing the payroll, but that's less sexy, so not talking about that. So my dream job was being
02:44
a chicken nugget scientist as a kid, I'm kidding, it's still my dream job, I never got to the point, so maybe you will think a little bit about what your dream job is. And I hope that I can get you some tips for that. So we will start this journey
03:04
at the point where you already found the job you want to apply for, so we're not talking about how to find the job, there are a lot of portals out there, I guess the majority of you know where to find good jobs, it's also very country-specific, so we will start a journey today at the point where you will actually have to send out an application. And some of you might think, oh, geez, an application form.
03:25
Once I had to fill out one hour long of psychological intelligence tests for an internship, that was really not cool, but if you want to get the job, you will not get around the point where you have to fill out an application form. But first things first, I want to walk you through a little bit through the
03:45
typical application process structure that you have. It's probably similar in every company that you apply to, this is the process that we have in TrustU. Did I mention that I also work for TrustU? We promise it's not a commercial session here, we just happen to be Elisaveta and I after each other, so
04:03
this is not about TrustU, this is about recruiting in general. But normally you will have to fill out an initial application at some point, of course, either via this infamous application form or you will have to send an email or you just can apply via LinkedIn, so you will have to apply at some point, right? And normally when you apply for a tech job, there will be a technical
04:24
test, very likely. You will at some point encounter one of us, the HR people, that's also very likely that will happen to you and normally you will also have a tech screening at some point. And also very likely you will be invited to an on-site visit. So I wanted to give you a little bit of an
04:43
overview, how likely it is that you get to which step. So the initial application, about 70% of applications are filtered out already. And when it comes to the technical test that we send out, for example, you will have
05:01
about 60% of applications filtered out. So from the 70%, right, the ones that are staying and then again 60%. I know math. I should train a little bit more on that subject. So once you manage to go through the technical test, you get accepted, you encounter the infamous HR people like me and we
05:21
filter out about 50% of you. Sorry. And then you will encounter one person of the department probably or more where again about 30% of people will be filtered out and through the on-site visit you will have still about 20% that will not make it grammar. All right. Just to give you a little bit of a
05:41
context. So maybe some of you think that, well, sure, I'm just going to attach my LinkedIn profile. It should be fine, right? Or just I can send an email, send a link with my LinkedIn profile. I think that should be fine. Maybe not. Again, actually we counted this, the percentage that gets filtered out. So these are two actual jobs that we had and trust you. The first one is a
06:04
data engineering job. The second one a full stack role. And you can see that from 434 candidates we ended up hiring two or respectively 570 candidates we ended up hiring two. So you're not one out of 10. You might probably end up being one out of hundreds. So I advise you to put a
06:27
little bit of an effort in it. So your LinkedIn profile might not actually be enough. So it can work, of course. So in general today I'm giving you more of a sort of say a mean of how things can happen, like how it's
06:41
very likely to happen. Of course you encounter different people, you encounter different companies. You might very likely encounter a company that says, okay, I just need your LinkedIn profile. That's fine. But I think it's always best to be on the safe side and just assume it won't be enough. So even if you have this one click apply thing on LinkedIn, I would, if I were
07:01
you, and I would do it myself, I would ever look for a new job, never of course, if I might, that you will look for ways to distinguish yourself. So for example, find out the contact person on LinkedIn that's responsible for the job, send an email or send an email to them because you will probably find an email address somewhere on the company website. So just that
07:20
they have seen you already a little bit more than just one out of this 500 LinkedIn profiles they will be getting. I advise you to generally attach a CV. This is a controversial topic. Probably some of you might say, well, CV is outdated, right? I have the data. I have my Stack Overflow. I have my LinkedIn. Why do I need to put effort in a CV? It's very likely
07:42
that companies still require it and it creates much less noise than just a LinkedIn profile. So if I look at LinkedIn profile, look at a LinkedIn profile, I will see a lot of other people. I would have to log into LinkedIn. It's just very convenient to have a well-structured nice CV to get out the data that we need to have from you. And to give you a little tips about the creation of the CV. Keep it short
08:05
but informative. I'm encountering CVs that are five pages long in block form. We do not going to read it. Sorry, but we don't have the time to read through five pages of CV. So I would say that more than two pages are already a bit critical. So if you are a data
08:23
scientist, for example, and you want to attach your publications, I think it makes sense to attach it in the third page. But in general, two pages should be fine. And what's a really nice thing about having a CV is that you can adapt it to the company you want to apply for. So you can maybe emphasize a little bit more
08:41
machine learning or emphasize a bit more Python, depending on the job requirements. Pay attention to the visuals. If you are applying as a UX designer, then this should have really a lot more gravity. But also, if you are applying for as a full stack engineer, please pay attention. It looks somewhat nice. It doesn't have to be crazy fancy super nice looking
09:00
CV. But at least somewhat orderly and easily readable. And this should be common sense, but please have it proofread. It's not that common sense that you might think. So spelling mistakes, a lot of spelling mistakes in a CV are really not that painting out the grade of a picture. And also an advisor
09:20
would give you to list your site projects. So not just what you have been doing at work, at your previous employee, et cetera. But also something that you might have done on the site. Maybe you created an app. Maybe you are contributing to open source. Mention that because it paints a very good picture of you being motivated. And yeah, cool person. Also, speaking of motivation, I will repeat that a
09:41
couple of times. Find a way to state your motivation. Just a little bit of, well, I have looked up your company online. It looks like a nice place to work because I like this and I'm also versed in our case would be, for example, NLP and machine learning. I would like to work for your company. Looks interesting. That's enough. You don't have to write
10:02
again five pages. I have it with a number five. Five pages of your life story in there. But just a little sentence on why this particular job caught your eye. All right. And it's always good to inform yourself of the company. So I would like to give you a little bit of a worst case
10:22
practice here. This is our application form that you will encounter if you apply to trust you. So that guy or girl whoever applied there probably likes adventures. But he also doesn't or she doesn't really think about why they are the right candidate for the position. So we did not
10:41
proceed to the next round here. I was not 100% convinced of that person's motivation. I wonder why. Might be too judgmental. But I also have a very good example of someone filling in this question why they want to join us. So something that I would like to mention in the job
11:03
descriptions that we're having, we have exactly this I love Python with a little heart. And that person obviously read the job description, picked up the I love Python thingy and adapted it. And also we are writing there that your ideas will be heard and implemented. And this person picked up this as well. And they also stated why they think they would be a good candidate for
11:22
the position and what they're passionate about. In case you are here who wrote this, I didn't get back to you yet. I will, I'm sorry. Approach me outside. But this is a very good example for yeah, just a little bit of effort to set your motivation. So you can see this didn't probably take three hours, but it's just a little bit of effort, right?
11:43
So there will also be a test probably we use in qualified just to give a little hint of what might coming up to you when it comes to coding tests, coding tasks that you will have to solve before someone will actually speak to you or a later point depending on the company's process. But this is a very nice tool where you will
12:02
have a couple coding questions. They run unit tests right through your code. You can say that like this. And there's also a time tracker. So the percentile you can see is the time they spend on it. This is also not a very good example because the person gave up at some point. Normally these tests should take around an hour.
12:23
Alright, so you walk through the effort of creating a nice application, uploading your CV, no spelling mistakes in your CV, and you stated a little bit of your motivation. So far so good. We might consider you for the next round. If you like adventures, you guess. Maybe not, but
12:41
if you're really passionate about adventures, then yes. And you will encounter the HR screening. Yeah, nobody ever gets this question really well, but don't worry. So yeah, just don't say like, Oh, I really work a lot like work life balance is I have a great weakness. I work all the time. I really want to work on this.
13:01
Please don't say that. Nobody will believe you. That's the thing. But what is the HR interview actually for? You might wonder, Geez, why do I have to bother with these people? We actually sometimes really nice people. But besides that, it's really about finding out if expectations match. So it's really more about what do you want? What do we want? Is it a good
13:22
match? Because for example, in terms of seniority, we can see if this is a good match already. Again, we want to find out your motivation. We want to check if this is a cultural fit. And in this case, I'm really not talking about do I want to hang out with a person having a whiskey, which also plays a part, but it's more, are you more of a corporate person, a startup person? Do you like structures?
13:42
Are you fine with wearing many hats? Like, what's the kind of corporate company environment atmosphere that you would like to work in? And this is something that we can offer. It makes no sense to really like structures and really like processes ending up in a startup. So it makes sense to kind of clarify this beforehand. We can check for
14:02
relevant experience. We can. That's something people that don't trust the HR people. And it's also to already check salary expectation. Because if this differs a lot, it makes no sense to continue for both sides. We don't want to steal your time, but we also don't want to invest time if this just won't be a match. All
14:21
right. I will give you a bit of an overview about don'ts. Please don't assume we have no technical knowledge at all. This is an actual thing that someone once said to me in an interview when I was asking if the person has any further questions. He said in this case it was another he and she thing. He said,
14:41
I really don't think there's anything that you could answer me. It was like, well, you will not get the chance to actually ask anyone else in our company any questions. So, tough luck. But that obviously went bad. But also a lot of people tend to say, well, I'm not sure if you're the right person to ask this. Or I'm not sure if you know this. Which is okay. It's totally not a reason to kick anyone out of the process. But it's
15:02
better to just not assume that we have no technical knowledge. Because, for example, I really try to like learn some coding to learn the language. And I'm very interested in the subject. And I do know some things. So it makes sense to just skip the very technical questions right away. And you can ask the high level questions. If we don't know, we will tell you.
15:22
Very difficult is also talking nonstop. Especially product managers tend to do that for a reason. No offense, no offense. But they do. Versus one word answers. It's also a bit of a drag if we have to drag out every word of you out of you. But also if you cannot actually ever ask any questions. So both of this, there should be a right medium. Same with
15:41
constantly interrupting. Please don't talk very badly about your previous employer. I had someone saying to us, well, these guys were so dumb. So dumb. This is the most stupid company ever. Oh, God, please don't say that. You can be honest, but don't be rude. And also tricky is to show that relocation is the only motivation. So if the entire interview consists of how much you would like to
16:01
relocate to Germany or Munich in our case, it's good to mention it, but maybe shouldn't be the main motivation. Even though if it is, just lie. Comes to the next point. Don't be obviously dishonest. If you say, like my colleague likes to ask the question,
16:22
what have you been criticized for in the past? And if you say, well, I have never been criticized for anything. That is not true probably. I mean, and if it's true, then that's tough luck for you, because we will never believe that's true. So it makes no sense being very obviously not honest.
16:41
Be honest. You can see this talk follows a lot of good structure. So please be honest. We want a mutual match. So it makes no sense to come up with something that's not true or to just say, yes, I totally love structures. I like really strong hierarchies. That's totally my thing. If you will be unhappy, we won't be happy either. So it makes sense to
17:00
really, this is the main message I want to give you actually for this talk. Know what you want. Really be sure that you know what it is that you want and what it is what you don't want, because it helps no one if you come into a company and it's just not a match at all and you will be leaving after two months. So make sure to also communicate what it
17:20
is that you want. If you want to be in a dynamic environment, if you want to wear many hats, but if you're also fine with frequent changes, with some sort of uncertainty, then that's fine. Just communicate it. And if the case is the other way around, also communicate it. Again, show interest and motivation for the company you're applying to. And
17:43
very important is to prepare some questions beforehand. It paints a negative picture if you have no questions at all. And if you actually have all your questions answered in the process, that's perfectly fine. Just say then something like, well, I had this and this question prepared, but you already answered it in your
18:00
explanation of the company, of the team, et cetera. So I have no further questions, that's fine, but then the recruiter knows, ah, okay, you prepared a little bit and you had some questions in parallel. It's also for you very good to eliminate those no-goes that you might have in mind that's what you don't want, right? So you could ask, for example, about the
18:23
roadmap. Like how would the company create the product roadmap? And you can see if they have a three-year plan, if they have a ten-year plan, about the vision of the company. Like these kind of things that will show you how frequently they change, like if they have a good plan, if it's a stable company. So just make sure to prepare those questions. And prepare an informed salary expectation.
18:42
That's a reasonable salary expectation. It's fine to be a with a salary, but it helps no one if it's completely out of hands. Because then something like this could happen, that they say, well, okay, we have these three great candidates, this one is really, really good, but it's really the salary expectations is really high, so we will settle, we will take
19:01
the one with the less high salary expectation. So it makes sense to inform yourself on Glass or etc. and come up with a reasonable number. And don't be afraid to write a follow-up email if the response takes some time. All right. I know that I am checking my timer, so I have to walk a little bit faster. I could tell you so many more tips and tricks, but
19:21
25 minutes is actually really short. Yesterday it took me almost 45 minutes walking through my talk, so I had to cut a little bit the things I would like to tell you. Who of you knows this, though? Hands up if you know the scene, if you know what it's about. Nice. Cool. Okay. I thought, like, you're a Python, like a Python conference, right? Monty Python had to be. This is really funny. I wanted to show a
19:41
video first, but it's very risky showing videos, and it took a long time. So if you encounter a text screening like this, leave. Don't work there. Just as a hint. If you don't know this, this is Monty Python, in case some people didn't raise their hands. And just Google interview Monty Python, you will find this, and it's very, very funny. All right.
20:03
These are a couple of tips that our VP of engineering actually prepared for me. So it makes sense to try to find out of the tech stack of the company beforehand. You can in the previous interview, we might know. So at least we can read through the list that's somewhere, right? So this
20:21
should be fine. As I mentioned before, mentioned some projects that you contributed to, like open source project, like a private pet project, anything that could be interesting for the job and just generally shows that you're a motivated person. Also very interesting in the tech part is that
20:40
you can collaborate with your team members. Working in an engineering team requires a lot of collaboration with your teammates, and we want team players. So it makes sense to prepare a couple of examples where you successfully worked on this. And also for you, I am sure that you all agree with me, staying up to date is very, very important in the tech industry. So prepare a couple of sources where you
21:02
will get your knowledge from, for example, like blogs, any books that you have been reading, any podcasts you're following, like, yeah, any forums, et cetera. So that makes a very good impression. All right. And last but not least, you will at some point have an onsite
21:21
visit, probably, except for when you live very far away and it's all via Skype. But you will have to talk to people there. I'm telling you. Even if talking to people might not be your thing, and it's also not always my thing, which sounds weird working in HR, but it's true, but you will have to make an effort to actually talk to people. At this
21:42
point, don't ask, just wing it. If you don't know what the interviewer's name is, doesn't matter. It makes sense, though, to prepare beforehand which people you will be talking to and to ask the recruiter who will prepare the onsite visit for you, whom you will be speaking with. Maybe you could even look them up on
22:00
Stack Overflow, whatever, see what they're working on. This is something that I really shouldn't be telling as in common sense again, but please be punctual. And in case you're running late, that happens. Like, it could be flight connection, train is delayed, whatever. Please make sure to call someone or write an email saying, I'm really sorry,
22:21
I'm going to be late. Nobody is going to be mad, but if you just show up two hours later, the real life case, someone showed up two hours later. A bit odd, didn't get the job. Please make sure to inform someone. Also, that's less common sense, though, but please don't show up super early because we won't be ready. If you
22:41
show up half an hour earlier, it will be very awkward for you sitting somewhere and very awkward for us having to finish what we are doing, knowing that you're sitting somewhere. So ten minutes, five minutes earlier is perfectly fine, but if you are earlier at the premise, just walk around the building one million times. It's less awkward than awkwardly sitting somewhere. It makes sense
23:01
to ask what to bring if it's not in the instruction and also, that's again, interact with the team because it will probably go for lunch with them. You don't have to be super all over the top with talking nonstop and being the most outgoing person ever, but make sure to show a little bit of an interest in your future colleagues, listen to their conversations, ask some
23:21
questions. And mind the company's dress code. I know that for engineering applicants, this is normally not super important. You don't have to show up in a suit. Normally, if you apply in a bank, you might have to show up in a suit, so check a little bit the company culture that you are applying for and see
23:41
what makes sense how to go there. It's not super important, but it shows some effort that you inform yourself. Also, if you have a test or a task or something to work on, you will have a presentation, maybe, some feedback, please react appropriately. Don't get super defensive and
24:01
be like, well, I didn't have the time to do this, or well, this was not a rightly phrased question, even if this is the case, make sure to take the feedback, say, well, okay, I will work on this the next time, just try to react appropriately. Yay, I have one minute to sum up all the things, sum up all the things. Again,
24:23
motivation, it's very important, I cannot stress this enough, because I have, this might be like the main reason or the majority of people that we would reject, because it tends people come off super unmotivated to actually join the company or to do the job. So really make sure that you showcase a little bit
24:41
you're interested in the company and the job, both, right, not just the job, but also the company. Prepare, take it seriously, just confidence is good, being overly confident, walking in like everybody was just waiting, is a little bit tricky. Exactly, don't tip the scale, confidence versus arrogance, have
25:00
realistic expectations about the job, but make sure you have the right expectations, and again, this is the message I want to leave you guys with today, and I hope that you took some hints and tricks out of it, if you want to discuss more, I'm happy, I'm also somewhere around later, make sure you're very aware of what you want, and what you don't want, and
25:21
adequately be able to communicate it. All right. Oh, my timer is done. Sorry, I don't even know how to turn it off, okay, fine, awkward ending. If you have any questions, I think we still have a little bit time for questions, right? Thank you.
25:45
I have to stay in this thing. We have a presentation training at our company and they say don't stay behind a booth, but sorry, but you have to stay between the white lines.
26:02
Great talk. Thank you. You mentioned in the side projects to put your blogs, your hub accounts, et cetera, et cetera, but you didn't mention as side projects, if you
26:21
want to do sports, dance, play music, et cetera, et cetera. That's actually a really good point. Since that can complement, I think, your behavior, so how much is important for you? That's a very good point, actually, that I completely neglected,
26:42
but thank you very much. It is absolutely nice to also write in your CV or mention somewhere your hobbies, absolutely, because it makes it a little bit more approachable as a person. We know a little bit more who you are, and it can also be very impressive. For example, if you're running marathons frequently, this definitely shows that you are someone who's capable of
27:01
discipline, who's just a person that has passion and who's following through with something. side projects, as in interesting sports, interesting hobbies, anything that's not related to work, is definitely very beneficial to mention even in the CV already or also in the on-site visit and the talks.
27:21
Absolutely. Any more questions? For me, it would be really important the company culture. And yet, you don't actually, as an applicant, you don't see anyone who works at the company other than HR, like the people you're going to be working with, until you've gone through HR. How does an
27:40
applicant assess company culture? That's a really really good question. I think in many companies, you can already find out a lot on the internet, actually. For example, Glassdoor. We have a lot of reviews on when you read through the reviews, it actually gives you
28:00
a bit of an idea what it is there, what it is like to work there. Or there are also other portals like Kununu in Germany, where you can find out what people say about review company, what people say about the company. Also, you might check out the websites. So, employer branding is becoming bigger and bigger, and normally the companies try
28:26
to find and it also makes sense to ask the Asia person to explain you a little bit what it is like to work at Trust U. Some people ask me at the company, sorry, still no recruiting, still no recruiting. People ask
28:40
me what I like especially about the company. And I normally answer very honestly what I I personally like a lot. So, this is a question you might ask a little bit. One more question.
29:15
Yeah, exactly. the HR screening would normally be the first contact. You can ask them there.
29:21
One more question. That was very quick comment. So, we have one more question. thank you. So, I've been in your situation where I've been interviewing people and one of the questions that people have asked me at the end is can
29:40
you give me any feedback on the spot. What do you think of that question within the interview process? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's a tricky one. That's a tricky one. You would know probably. I think it's it's a good question. It's a good question and it forces the interviewer to
30:00
answer sort of honestly, I would say at least I try to answer very honestly because it makes a sense to say well, this was amazing, greatest interview I ever had and then a week later I go by the way declining you. So I think it's a very good question and it gives you the chance to know right away where you stand because normally the interviewer would give you an honest
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feedback like packed nicely of course and like you wouldn't say like that was just creepy sorry but you would question to ask already in the HR screening but also for the tech
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screenings I would say especially because you have very technical just like non- emotional feedback because this is like very you know straightforward thanks all right I thank our speakers again thank you