DEF CON Awards - 2011

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DEF CON Awards - 2011
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The Dark Tangent and Russ Rogers announce the winners of the first annual DEF CON Awards.
Statistics Multiplication sign Computer programming 2 (number) Twitter Frequency Facebook Goodness of fit Hacker (term) Energy level Area Pattern recognition Feedback Planning Bit Nominal number Data mining Word Voting Process (computing) Addressing mode Logic Personal digital assistant Website Right angle Quicksort
Slide rule Statistics Open source Link (knot theory) Dependent and independent variables Decision theory Direction (geometry) Workstation <Musikinstrument> 1 (number) Information privacy Goodness of fit Malware Hacker (term) Hypermedia Operator (mathematics) Software Authorization Videoconferencing Category of being Information security Infotainment Traffic reporting Area Covering space Source code Dependent and independent variables Email Link (knot theory) Information Weight Bit Nominal number Hecke operator Information privacy Inclusion map Category of being Voting Malware Hypermedia Software Text editor Information security Hacker (term) Local ring
Web 2.0 Trail Wechselseitige Information Hacker (term) Video game Website Web browser Simulation
Hacker (term) Internetworking Password Virtual machine
Point (geometry) Web page Android (robot) Mobile app Backup Link (knot theory) Sweep line algorithm Multiplication sign Source code 1 (number) Insertion loss Water vapor Information privacy Number Malware Goodness of fit Encryption Authorization Energy level Cuboid Software testing Information security Plug-in (computing) Physical system Scripting language Information View (database) Digitizing Projective plane Nominal number Database Information privacy Category of being Process (computing) Voting Personal digital assistant System programming Website Normal (geometry) Point cloud Right angle Figurate number Reading (process)
Group action Open source Online help IP address Neuroinformatik Number Product (business) Web 2.0 Revision control Different (Kate Ryan album) Hacker (term) Hash function Authorization Belegleser Information security Capability Maturity Model Pattern recognition Dependent and independent variables Mapping Nominal number Backtracking Category of being Hypermedia Software Normed vector space Right angle
Software Multiplication sign Authorization Image registration
Token ring Decision theory Multiplication sign Field (computer science) 2 (number) Internetworking Hypermedia Different (Kate Ryan album) Hacker (term) Authorization Videoconferencing Drum memory Computer-assisted translation Metra potential method Information security Logic gate Error message Physical system Authentication Information management Closed set Web page Expert system Bit Total S.A. Nominal number Mereology Category of being Voting Software Hill differential equation Right angle Quicksort Procedural programming Active contour model Spacetime
Confidence interval Multiplication sign Mereology Software bug Facebook Sign (mathematics) Different (Kate Ryan album) Hypermedia Videoconferencing Cuboid Data conversion Office suite Information security Vulnerability (computing) Email Computer-generated imagery Constructor (object-oriented programming) Feedback Electronic mailing list Nominal number Social engineering (security) Degree (graph theory) Category of being Data management Process (computing) Computer cluster Website Right angle Sinc function Computer forensics Row (database) Web page Point (geometry) Trail Beat (acoustics) Open source Real number Control flow Online help Number Twitter 2 (number) Goodness of fit Bridging (networking) Hacker (term) Metropolitan area network RSA (algorithm) Addition Information Physical law Projective plane Expert system Plastikkarte Line (geometry) Voting Search engine (computing) Personal digital assistant Game theory
okay so i'll just give you a little bit of a background on this it's something we've wanted to do for years and years and like a lot of ideas for defcon that we've wanted to do for years and years we've just never done it we've gotten too overwhelmed with stuff and and so r us came along and said hey you know we should do in a where it a ward ceremony yeah that's a great idea but we didn't want to do that for years but it always gets you know lost in the weeds and russ stepped up and said hey I'll do it and so this has largely been all the work of Russ and I want to give him a lot of props a lot of recognition for stepping up and doing something that that we've been meaning to do for a long time and and Russ made it happen so the idea behind it is we don't want to be like the pony Awards pony words are awesome and they're really funny but you know it took the pony awards two or three years to get going and the same things going to happen here you know this year was more about let's get this done let's see the community reaction and really grow it so next year def con 20 20th anniversary will have this plan in going months and months in advance we've already figured out all the ways people are cheating us and trying to vote stuff and you know spoof eye peas and do everything to get their favorite thing recognized so what we've done is we've taken the winners are going to get these lucite or epoxy and case badges and next year we will do is each year they'll get that year's badge embedded in it and you notice that we don't have all the awards up here because we don't think some of the losers are going to want to pick up their badges so Russell's going to talk to you through the process what we did who the nominations are we're going to ask the audience for your feedback on stuff I would you have voted the sort of the same way as we did and then and then tell you our plans for next year so I thanks for coming I know this is a first year effort and I'm really glad you guys are here at the beginning of it so let me pass it off to Russ all right we're going to see how this works here oh shit it was a little suspicious when well nevermind I'm not gonna reveal all the secrets at the beginning so how did you guys hear about this is the program you didn't see like any of the stuff on Facebook or Twitter or any of our other stuff is pretty much yeah I didn't know we've got to figure out where you people are hearing about this like how many people here nominated something okay cool how many and you guys how many people voted got involved a couple people did how many people are running botnets that vote for you yeah kind of like the way you have to buy tickets for shmoo I think like all the tickets sell out in 2.2 seconds you got all right so you know I don't know what I was thinking when I suggested this because if you get a bunch of hackers online on an automated voting site what you're going to end up with is a bunch of hackers on an automated voting site and so this didn't work out nearly as well as I'd hoped so I just go with this we kept this really simple so you can see what we're doing the goal here was to give the community a voice right so we really wanted to allow everybody to talk about some of the best stuff that's out there in areas that we're interested in and also you know highlight some of the crap that happens out there you know embarrassed by people talking to the press writing stories doing dumb stuff making us all look dumb people that we generally just don't like right and that was kind of what we've planned for today so we'll highlight some of the best verbally sodomized the worst and just try to have a good time bear mine this is the first year the statistics from the voting are heavily skewed and I watched votes go from roughly 400 to 1700 in a period of two days and they were all for a single candidate in each of the categories and so we assume that there was some monkeying around going on there so we've had to insert our own level of logic into this as well the
categories are worse coverage of security and hacker issues by media person or an outlet so you know I I know we've all seen some good stories we've seen some bad stories we've seen some ridiculous stuff and we'll cover a little bit of that we've got the most interesting malware innovation shouldn't be a whole lot of surprises there but there were a couple of good ones best privacy enhancing technology what is impacted you know your ability to maintain your own privacy and security on the net while you're operating we have the best open source software response to an attack or method what have people done to try and help the community out with that and this was one of the areas where we got kind of hit with that voting thing we also have the best author and story that captures the hacker mindset now being the overly prepared person that I am I don't have slides for those last two categories so we'll just talk through those and then for security charlatan of the year we've got Jericho from attrition org that will come up and talk a little bit he's got all the statistics he also knows the boats that were skewed which direction they went that kind of thing and he can give you an idea of how he made that decision we tend to leave the charlatan things strictly up to him because he does a lot of research in this area and he was actually surprised by some of the nominations himself so for the
nominations on worst media coverage we had a bunch of nominations but what people don't realize is if you give us a name and you don't give us a link so we can read the article or watch the video or any of that it doesn't do us any good at all right so you can tell us that hey my local NBC station post to the story and it was really stupid and well that's great but I've got nothing to look at right so out of all of them that we got we have two that we're fairly significant we have been grub who's a reporter for The Sydney Morning Herald now for this particular guy he his editor actually contacted me first once the nominations first went out and she apparently thought it was kind of funny she had decided to write another piece talking about it Ben was actually arrested at a security conference assert in Sydney or somewhere in Australia yeah and so his iPad was confiscated by the police and they had all of his anonymous contacts information on this iPad and so there was a lot of controversy about how easily he gave that up you know and so his editor wanted to write a story up about it and I start getting emails from been himself he's like dude what the heck I'm like I didn't nominate you don't you know you're getting freaked out at me he said well how do i how do I rebut this how do I defend myself unlike write something else try and fix it so he's on there and then we have fox 11 and that has done a really interesting piece on anonymous and I'm going to play just a quick video of that now so you
can see what what they've said since I have now hose that ice if I find my
browser again review later all right you
guys see this i just upgraded to lion today that was a really bad thing to do
because your trackpad quits working the way you'd hope they call themselves anonymous they are hackers on steroids treating the web like a real-life video game sacking websites invading myspace accounts disrupting innocent people's lives and if you fight back watch out who xuan tracks down the hacker gangs in this fox 11 investigation
destroy died at n threats from a gang of
computer hackers calling themselves anonymous that seven different passwords
and they've got them all so far they
attack innocent people like an Internet hate machine roshawn we do not forgive
we do not forget those who fight back face death threats Anonymous has even
threatened to bomb sports stadiums I believe their domestic terrorist their
name comes from their secret websites it requires anyone posting on the site to
remain anon alright so just in case any of you confused we are really really bad people and Anna month anonymous leads us in this war so it was actually fairly
easy to pick the winner of that that was
a horrible story so if there's anybody from Fox 11 that would like to come claim your award no one all right is it do it yeah they're in LA they're in LA yeah so huh can you have their water she's just elbow the shit out of him for something he was getting ready to say alright so most interesting what what does the audience think on that one so what do you guys think out of those two fox 11 and yeah so who else would you guys have nominated see the problem we had was we had significantly fewer nominations that we had people voting and then we had everybody voting for like one person so anybody else yeah but see that's not useful right because that doesn't do anything but you can't point at one person doing a really ridiculously poor job everybody covering stuxnet is kind of silly because we had Vanity Fair that spent a week in half with us in Abu Dhabi talking everybody they possibly could trying to get all the information they could and it was a it was a good article it was actually very educated yeah real quick you can't even say that because Kim Zetter rodin awesome article on Stuxnet you know was like ten pages dissected it gave the whole history and you're not even listening are you who said Stuxnet yeah okay Kim sedra's article is outstanding on that so you can't just blanket coverage it one of the nominations was like everything WikiLeaks well again a lot of the coverage was really horrible some of it was good so that's why we need specific names of a journalist maybe even you know the entire outfit or a link to an article or something Oh yeah so again but consider the source you know who are they riding to the writing to a bunch of people that have never seen that and yeah if they start throwing in this jargon it becomes very difficult for the reader to follow so that's kind of a necessary evil you know maybe they went too far with it maybe they explained it horribly then it would fall in that category yeah I think Fox is the clear winner yeah yeah it was as dramatic as my sixteen-year-old daughter though oh yeah the Louise boat that's see that's another good one those are the kind of things that we need you know when you submit that and a link to that would be perfect that's a great nomination that was far better than about ninety percent that we got that one's actually interesting that that's not so much poor journalism that's just kind of interesting research that is yeah you know not very well back did that falls in the category we'd love to get that kind of nomination and consider it though yeah so next year try to get involved in this if you if you can so nominations for most interesting malware we had a bunch of stuff on this I would like to point out that we had five nominations that turned up in every single category regardless of what the category was apparently Batman and jacob appelbaum are important enough to the security world that they were in every single one of the categories Bill Gates was in every single one of the categories I didn't realize he was still that relevant but what we ended up with was the top two are legitimate okay these are interesting pieces of malware we have Stuxnet everybody's heard about Stuxnet you've read good articles you've got you've read bad articles you may have heard all the different rumors of how it was spreading that kind of thing and then we have Bitcoin jacker it's a everybody knows what bitcoin is i am trying to create some kind of digital currency and somebody wrote a ruby script where you could basically screw up the entire economy with this and then we have like you know dumb stuff SQL injectors you know if I'm a pen tester for a legitimate and security company and I'm doing this to try and figure out how vulnerable my databases are in that kind of stuff that's not technically malware right firesheep these these are things that aren't necessarily malware and they're certainly not as interesting as say Stuxnet and Bitcoin which made an impact in the rest of the world do you agree with that okay okay so too late Oh what do you guys vote for what do you think stock Stuxnet any others that you would have nominated or is there a single vote for the other one so yeah so Stuxnet one that if the author Stuxnet is here you're welcome to claim your trophy will be around afterward so if you like you just meet us in the hallway you know yeah you and your whole team can come up no feds involved yeah and I think I think Stuxnet also wanted the ponies yeah because no no other malware has gotten such international coverage from the top level political all the way down to the trenches with the technical guys I mean it was yeah as soon as the shit out of everyone yeah yeah and the altars were shy at the ponies and didn't show up there either you know maybe they were just waiting you know they want to make sure they they had clean sweep clean clean sweep yeah yeah all right so best privacy technology again we had some stuff on here that was technology and stuff that was not a cou lawsuits not technology all right I put it on there because it's interesting anyone ever used the two-ton plugin for tour it's a tour plugin to make it easier to use all right so so according to the votes i think about 99% of you should have known about this tool yeah house-trained this is one of those that was up obviously slanted towards one particular category and then we have tour everybody knows what Torres yep okay most of you know what tour is there's some very deadly science so you're either dead or you're sleeping yeah yeah exactly we have Moxie's whisper systems he's done some really good work we have data loss DB org which Brian's actually involved in I already said it shouldn't win it's a neat project but is definitely not fitting the bill here yeah and then we have you know your normal junk nominations like unplugging your box which that that's a bad answer that's a technique not a technology that's as non-technical as you can get and then ipv6 so what would you guys have voted on this one humm ok so between the tour and the whisper systems what do you think yeah so why don't you why don't you reveal what we're reveal who wins next year we're going to call this also best new tech yeah so whisper systems wins for a number of reasons tour has been out for a number of years and and they're doing really really good work but but whisper systems moxie and his crews work they released red phone good timing they release it for people in Egypt they released a txt secure for text messaging they've got the encrypted android stuff that got the encrypted cloud stuff so within a year they released for significant apps to help around Texas security voice security backup security and full device security and that's a pretty significant to come from nowhere and achieve all of those for Android and really honestly I wouldn't be using my own joy unless i was using Moxie stuff so yeah so I think they deserve a lot of
credit and recognition for really changing the landscape all in just one
year would you guys agree yeah yeah good so hopefully Moxie's not speaking right now he is or is not so we can cut his award if right so for this next one i'm going to i'm actually go to the responses that we've got here and these are the nominations that we received okay and this is best open source software response to an attacker method and as you look through here i kind of want you to see the filth that we had to filter through to get to anything interesting because there's a lot of crap in here the FBI arresting the face of terrorism without her bunny ears what the hell does that mean you know I mean that that's not that's not open source software and it's not really helpful metasploit it's debatable whether that's open source anymore who thinks that's still open source this boy is they got metasploit for pro which is not right okay yeah Bill Gates is like I said Bill Gates showed up on every every single one of the categories that's not helpful defeat lame web scanners with web labyrinth and and that may actually be useful but update WordPress a bunch of and again Moxie shows up here as well a gr secured SQL map backtrack backtrack was actually fairly strong response and since they just released a new version last summer they're still working on that stop trying to copy the pony awards showed up in every category as well and I was going to post the IP addresses on every one of these but it's like somebody up in the front said you know they're all probably coming from tour nodes anyway so some poor grandmother's going to get run over by people tick tough if people trying to be silly Jacob Appelbaum he's on every one of them I'm Oh wasp was actually a very interesting one okay but how do you really feel Batman again Batman is is very into computer security so who would you guys have voted for Jeff yeah I think who do you think I think backtrack yeah backtrack actually got gets this one out of all the nominations we got that was actually the one that stood out and made a difference well they've been good for a number of years yeah yeah it's it's a mature product they're actually very very dedicated to it they're walking around here I think they're speakers here as well right yeah Chris and his groups yeah yeah so very very good guys and then the last one best author and story now before I show you what all the responses are I do want to mention i'm a little we got two or three really really good nominations here and i was actually excited to see those and they only got a whole bunch that are kind of crap somebody nominated a 18th century british novelist or something some woman or maybe it was 19th century they wrote romances or something i actually had to look the name up i might okay so probably not representing the hacker mindset but there were multiple those kinds of things so let me show you what
we've got here and you guys can let me
know which thing there has been a problem communicating and I am NOT getting on this network yeah I know okay Han it's a mac that you just work right yeah unplugging so you can't see why
connect to and 24 he's connecting to me I know one of the authors was built brain a techno weenie he actually runs all the registration for def cons so in his spare time of not handing you guys badges he actually did write a wire a book that all across the wire down to the wire down the wire and it's actually really really good and I I was kind of hoping it would win myself but there we
go we'll plug back in and try this again and get my mouse bag you are not connected to the Internet ty work don't record that token you know because
that's probably your authentication token right there there we go camera
flashing all right best author shower spots is there we go lolz sec showed up on this how is a little second author freakin Lyon alright so Jason Street and he writes yes I'm boy yeah he's got a book it's it's a legit stop laughs he didn't write it it wasn't me space road for hacker news network as I think that's actually legitimate as well I probably in he still writes a lot of that stuff right Ars Technica Peter bright he actually wrote on anonymous attacking HP Gary but that's more of a news story I don't I will that's not captain Lee the money yeah it's not really capturing the hacker mindset unless you're anonymous yeah it could be either so it could be like it could be like Steven levees book hackers oh it could be Bruce darlings book like psycho bunk right you know something like that we had a lot of votes for Marco Reus natha video day yeah and that was actually a legitimate nomination we also had bill gates on here down the wire by William Breen if you haven't read that one I would check that one out it's actually really good and it's not that expensive either Patrick gray I got I got a pic yeah Patrick gray for his coverage a little sick honestly I got a little bit tired of the lil sick and anonymous stuff in the nominations I think it's a little bit overdone this piece is very different is it is a goodie stands out and basically says a lot of what people are thinking okay and Kevin Poulsen who does a lot of Technology writing as well I haven't read any of his stuff recently so well that's another one where you would need to specify author and work because yeah Kevin writes all kinds of articles write books so yeah olson's new book is outstanding and so that one would definitely be up here yeah you know maybe just a Monday an article on something else wouldn't okay so Brian Jeff what do you guys think I'm either going for the I'm guessing i would either go for the mark bro son of bitches uh-huh or I would go for what was up further the I can't remember his name but the person you were mentioning Patrick gray yeah Patrick gray how pageants rifle so what about you guys recent Paulson as a total contribution Polson's total body of work you're thinking kingpin King dead baby book king again Kevin Polson's book kingpin you mean kingpin yeah yep in I would say it's between those who you know I even like that the fatal system error by joseph menn was really good but that was also more like an investigative piece that tracked the cat and mouse and it was less about the mindset and it was more about you know the sort of police procedural of chasing down the bad guys alright so zero-day or kingpin let's see hand show hands zero-day kingpin yeah blows looks like an enemy close to it I think it's pretty close kingpin I think so you catching them out okay alright so we'll give that to kingpin and I don't I haven't seen Kevin this year at all no I don't think he's here yeah so we'll have to mail him his or give it to us alright and so for for the last one and this is actually the most important category in my opinion we have a lot of people that go out there and they call themselves security experts and this actually kind of goes back to the worst media coverage as well because you see a lot of these people on CNN and Fox News and they'll hire anybody as long as there's a marketing guy that tells you they're an expert in the security field and I'm going to let Brian talk a little bit more about it but there is a difference between somebody that is unethical and makes poor decisions versus somebody that actually doesn't know what the hell they're talking about so right and you've been doing this for a long time yeah the actually one of the very first charlatans we put up with Gregory Evans in 2002 so while most people think hey it's a recent thing last year or two no it actually goes back and ironically enough in the past week we got evidence but we have not what we can publish on but we have the initial evidence that says even his real crappy high-tech memoirs of a high-tech hustler was written by an employee that he didn't even write that so yes just non going saga but Ezra said one of the distinctions is with the charlatan you know you have to kind of think of snake oil it's the guy pitching something that doesn't really know what he's doing he's not an expert and obviously he she whatever we're one of the most common nominations for this was like aaron barr well i was on a panel
regarding that earlier aaron barr he may be an asshole he may be unethical he may
be money driven but it doesn't mean he was charlatan if you actually read through his stuff a lot of what he was proposing is being done by other companies and they are doing it very successfully and they are making a shit ton of money off of it so you really can't call him a charlatan for that you call him a jerk or whatever else you know it's almost like a confidence game right there miss representing themselves to be something they are right so as an example because this one's well-known Gregory Evans he goes in and says hey I'm an expert and one of the first things he quotes is you know I was arrested for hacking and I served two years for hacking well as the detail show no he never hacked anything all he would do is call up and it wasn't even social engineering by the definition today he would basically steal a phone line and resell it for profit and he wasn't the one that even secured the the phone numbers so yeah there's a difference between you know a charlatan and a dick or he's both you know our common girl yeah some of the other nominations we got on cat5e a one of the Indian whiz kids which is a growing phenomenon in the last year i think we added three more to the Charlotte and Paige from on you yeah all india it's a growing thing it's like on kapadia started when he was 14 well next 10 started when he was 13 gifted a computer image 12 it's like every goddamn year someone little younger Cotton's up and one of them was i think his name is sahil khan so he decided I'm gonna write a couple books and it was full of plagiarism and i forgot i think i actually mailed him and said you know what the hell are you doing so he mails no he may have mailed me anyway we got to chatting and I said you know this is plagiarism he says well when you're gonna remove this page and I didn't even miss a beat I said never you know it's gonna stay up the permanent mark on your record you know so he says well you know I'm basically want to become a lawyer I was like good luck with that you know when you go into law school try not to plagiarize either way we had a great conversation in the end he learned his lesson he said you know he's never going to play dries again so it's a great thing you know that sure he screwed up but he learned from his mistake um some of the others don't even contact you or right no for the most part they don't and here's a great one like going back to evans.evans doesn't understand that my real name Brian and Jericho I'm the same guy even though it was in a article last week by Penenberg he also thinks that one of those two names is Randy Morris an ex-employee of his and he still can't make the distinction that any of this is involved with attrition so when he filed a court case that was involving us he filed this as a John Doe this is the same guy that goes out and says I'm a technical expert at computer forensics I dig up thousands of pages of evidence on blah blah blah you know that really embodies the charlatan one of the other names that came up that surprised me Christian Heinrich does anyone know that name what's the story there yeah well okay oh hey that could be another category next year boring speaker so is he just a boring speaker or is he a charlatan okay was any of it wrong or did he flat out say ooh look at this basic stuff it's brand new and revolutionary okay okay anyway his name came up way too many times so he's now going on my to-do list um you don't want to be on his to-do list no no no no yeah we had Greg Hoagland from HP Gary again he might be an asshole yo he definitely is an asshole he's the one that did the threatened legal injunction against aaron barr for speaking on the panel earlier fucker HP Gary Gary same thing Applebaum oh forget security yeah we got same thing a few other sony RSA again you know there's pony awards ta yeah Julian are there oh one other one like HT bridge that's another recent addition that one's kind of interesting HT bridge there are a company out of Switzerland and they got some really stupid shit on their webpage one of them is hey you can trust us because we are Swiss which means we're vendor-neutral Wow ok you know so it starts out like that and then the actual arad is that they publish these security advisories that if any of you kind of close your eyes drink a bottle of vodka and puke it's about the same quality you know real light on technical details all kinds of mistakes in them I posted their page and one of their leaders emails me and says you know oh I am completely surprised at your article I was like you're surprised despite me tweeting to you three times directly that I was publishing this two weeks in advance or you know the and I counted my mom was like 18 replies over nine months on bug track that you ignored how did you really miss that I was on to this you know so anyway he mailed me long whatever I made a couple corrections on my Arad I was like okay I'll give you that one that might be a vulnerability I mailed him back he mailed again I haven't read it you know it's just like at some point I don't know call me selfish but dealing with that kind of bullshit it really eats at your soul so anyway we have all those that's another category bullshit soul eater yeah yeah so is this a visceral vote like who caused you the most like psychic pain oh man or is this a vote on who caused the community like the most misdirection and misleading on the largest amount of harm to the community well this can also be a second fun break off who was the most amusing to us who did we laugh at the most you know so out of all those names for any reason who do you think would be the charlatan of the year is there anyone who thinks it's anyone other than Evans dad cricket cricket cricket oh yeah on kapadia video or whatever so one more fun story um he used to publish where he was going to speak and by the way he gets up to 25 thousand dollars to speak on stuff that is mundane I mean just boring simple security 101 crap and it's hype one of his talks begins with do you use gmail don't you're vulnerable do you use search engines don't you're vulnerable that kind of thing you know its hole thud so anyway he published his listing says you know I'm speaking it so and so in denver colorado where i live and i was like oh that's a mile from my house so I warned him i said on kid when you come to denver I've got questions for you and I'm going to ask them so I went down to the restaurant nice cold night I'm standing in the lobby waiting and actually I had dinner there and I went downstairs and I noticed that is your denver police officer standing outside and i was like you know this is kind of an odd place for you to be posted he's like oh well security for the private you know party I was like great on could called the police already you know so I go back up the lobby I wait ten minutes later the cop comes up and apparently me asking him that triggered some you know something in his mind he says you know why are you here I was like oh I'm a journalist I'm with attrition rot a project I explained and I gave him a card and everything I just want to ask him some questions he's like are you gonna hurt him his feelings maybe you know I I wasn't there to you know actually hurt him and so long Hakeem cry yeah long story short he called the police in advance and lied and said that I was there to assassinate him maybe verbally yeah so the cops like well because of that you know you can't be in the lobby I was like well you know I'm a paying customer I just you know paid thirty dollars for dinner here he's like well you're done you need to leave if I was like fine so I went out and I waited on the cold and I say cold 10 degrees you know was the middle of the winter I wait out there for two hours watching everyone come out I know what he looks like don't see him come out eventually no one else is coming out of restaurant finally employees start walking out then the manager comes out why are you waiting here all night so I explained to him he gets all you know in my face about this I was like look man I'm a journalist you know ambush journalism whatever you want to call it he's like well there's no one left in the restaurant I was like oh thanks that means that he snuck out the back alley like a rat appropriate so yeah I wrote all that up and since then he hasn't published where he's speaking in advance he has locked his Twitter feed doesn't update his facebook page you know again there's the sign of a charlatan hey yeah they run from you they won't take any kind of constructive criticism or legitimate questions does anybody subscribe to his Twitter feed that made it in there hasn't gotten locked out the funny part is is a lot of these charlatans they've actually blocked me you know because once I figure out who they are and once we put him on the page I'm a little vocal on Twitter you know I will taunt them and I will call them names or or challenge them and so they end up blocking me but they don't realize is that a month in advance I followed on a ghost account so that I can keep reading after they block and that way yeah I still read gregory evans i still read joseph black i still read Fatiha you name it I read their Twitter feeds and it's you know kind of fun to see what they have to say after all that but the fact that they go on hiding that's a good first step so anyway uh that was fun story sorry majority says Gregory D Evans gets it he promised he would be at Def Con he promised he would buy one of the podcast crew dinner he's a no-show oh whoa don't get it shocker yeah long story short he ended up flying to DC and cons Wall Street Journal into an article brew date it took us freaking two months to get CNN to drop them as a speaker so now I got to go start at the wall street journal one takeaway please if you see a charlatan if you see someone suspicious like that send me a mail just say is to arata at attrition org hey this guy seems a little you know out there um Gregory D Evans spoken this article even better start sending feedback to the media outlets say this guy's a quack this is why here's the evidence and that's what a-rod it does is we put up as much as we can that's fully backed with evidence we try to make it as little opinion as possible but we need help we need more eyes we just need submissions just need a little more information a little more push and we can keep publishing it yeah if you want to see the current charlatans that he's watching and the up-and-coming charlatan said he's got on his watch list you can actually see those at his website all of all it's online and there is a third list that's the kind of duelist and as I said you can help prioritize that list yes so okay so the winner Gregory D Evans by a landslide yeah since he's not here to take it I will take his award and i will put attrition stickers all over it and i will mail it to him got to take a picture of that before he sent it to him yeah yeah so he he will get a very special box with that and you know maybe some squirrel poo in it alright so for next year we're going to increase the number of categories we're going to change the way we do the voting and the nominations well I think this is a good number of categories do you think like one more maybe one or two more yeah maybe one or two I don't want it to be too complicated well yeah the worst corporate security black bonds yes so so for that i think the ponies are doing a great job there so I tried to stay more like open source community oriented and let the ponies do what they do really well and will complement each other right ideally these categories should be completely different from the ponies and if you miss it it's worth going to black hat for the ponies alone it's a lot of fun the guys that do that they did a really great job yeah so we're just trying to start ours up with them more of a community twist right and uh so with that said we've got the awards if any of the winners are here we'll give it to them otherwise we'll make sure they get delivered and next year we will announce a lot earlier and we'll get you involved a lot sooner and really look forward to you guys just spreading the word and and hopefully so for Def Con 20 you know we'll actually have it really going cool guys thanks I appreciate your time thanks