Drones, ships, pills and the Internet

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Drones, ships, pills and the Internet
Women on Waves
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Women on Waves and Women on Web, 2 non profit organisations use all possible loopholes and undetermined legal spaces to make sure that also women in countries where abortion is illegal can access safe abortion services.
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of thank you and it's really it's very interesting for me to present to a public that is usually not our audience because I used to talk a lot for doctors among women's rights organizations and so I tried to that it's a little bit but to the things that might interest you but
1st I am a doctor and I want you to understand the lead the diamond talking about I'm going to
go to some medical background information so that you understand a little bit more the context of what I'm talking about so this is a map
with the only abortion laws around the world and which you can see is that there's a north-south difference hates in the so you see the countries in Norse it's legal that's between countries and the countries in the south it's to the the red countries there were sleazy legal basically that means that women that in some cases but it's allowed to have an abortion when the House of the woman is at risk but usually in practice that doesn't mean that women don't have access to abortions because doctors don't dare to provide it and so the country's these wet and the on countries article trees that we are most interested in working in
and which you see it's not only in this house if we look at Europe Ireland and Poland and Malta they also have very restrictive abortion laws in Ireland's actually abortion is almost totally banned and so what happens when abortion is illegal doesn't mean that abortions don't take place exceeded take place as much or even more as in countries where
abortion is legal but it causes unsafe abortions and an unsafe abortion is an abortion that is done by women themselves they jump of stairs they put knitting needles in their vaginas or day data to massages or they use poisons and things like that and that causes a lot of women to die from that it's a big public health problems
so I just wanna touch really shortly on whether the means and affects about abortion because there's a lot of stories out there that are not true and 1 of them is that actually abortion is
where boss is 1 of the most met before medical procedures in the world And so about 22 per cent of all pregnant women choose to have an abortion which is 44 million women every year around the world then of course there's also the spontaneous abortions order miscarriages and about to about 15 to 20 % of the pregnancies end in miscarriage now some of the
anti-abortion groups they claim that abortion hurts women that it causes press breast cancer or courses at the equal at a post-abortion stress depression suicide and things like that I have fortunately there have been a
lot of a scientific research done that have shown that this is not the case that abortion does not cause of breast cancer and it doesn't cause any mental disorder on suicide or depression and it doesn't cause breast
cancer so some people say I'm against abortion because of my religion and this is said and them a quote from and 1 of the official papers from the Vatican which says that all direct abortions even for chair pretty reasons comment but equally command this sterilization and actually all forms of contraceptives so a true Catholic person is not allowed to use any contraceptives either and reality is that most people
or most women around the world accede to use contraceptives no matter what their religion is I just singled out at this is because it's easiest but you can have the same arguments for Islam Buddhism and other religions as well so some people say so why would you need abortions their contraceptives women should just use contraceptives well people usually do fuck and sometimes they do use contraceptives and you can see a now and an overview of the
effectivity and which sees when you use women use the bill of for for example a year to inform and pregnant anyway as so that means if alone uses the feel for 10 or 15 years which is quite normal then she has a very serious normal chance to still get pregnant and that might be an unwanted pregnancy so as a result
20 more than 21 million women in the world have an unsafe abortion and these spores these dangers methods I would poisons and things they cause around 47 thousand deaths every year and it's 1 of the main causes of pregnancy related to
best at in the world and so our as work is to make sure that women have access to medical abortion at because it can save their lives because in order to take a pill you don't need a doctor you just need to know how to take the bill and yeah let's
skip this 1 and so so
what is a medical abortion a medical was assessed there's 2 different ways to do it it is actually it was invented in an 19 85 and it's on the market in Europe since around 2000 to its 15 years it's not so long before that time they are the only other way to have an abortion was a surgical intervention and there's 2 different ways to do an abortion I won't I won't go into details but
basically what it does is causing a miscarriage it's blocking the hormones that are needed to maintain a pregnancy and then the warm starts cramping and it's like having and having missed menstruation it's it's like a miscarriage or have inspiration for the month of the year you will know what that is but so
it also means that because it's so similar to a miscarriage and because so many women have miscarried it's not possible for a doctor to see the difference whether women try to induce the about abortion themselves or whether it's a spontaneous abortion and that is something which we tell the many countries where it's illegal where they could go to jail for example in Ireland's a woman can go 14 years to jail for inducing here on abortion that they don't have to tell anybody that use medicines but that they can say that they have a spontaneous miscarriage so just in perspective the risk and safe abortion money for and fight 50 women nice if you look at the medical abortion is less than 1 and half a million and if you look at for example the risk to die from giving birth it at 1 in 20 thousand women die while giving birth so that ironical parties at an early medical abortion is actually safer for women than to continue the pregnancy and to give birth and if you combine that 2 driving a car definite cars much more dangerous and if you don't
believe me this is a very good publications from the Vols' how's organization and you can easily find it online and that it can backup all my statements so now what do we do so
basically what we started 15 years ago and the women always the idea behind it is that we have a ship you go to a country where abortion is illegal and it's a Dutch ship where Dutch law applies that you can go to that country and in international waters which is 12 miles out of school it's a Dutch law that applies on board the ship that is how international law functions so we need that is what we did it go a ship to a country we harbor are we going harbor we take women on boards we still to international waters where we give counseling 60 occasion and
things like that we give the abortion pills agreement in international waters then we still there and the women go home and it's a legal abortion and these then as several campaigns in islands in poland to portable in Spain mogul because of that work remained in a lot of requests KB for trainings from women's organizations to be helped a local women's groups starts safe abortion all clients which isn't just a mobile number that people can call to get information on how they condone abortion themselves safely we're doing a lot of work on the internet and a few weeks ago we actually
their campaign with a drone where we flew abortion pills from Germany to Poland's because opponents abortion is illegal in Germany abortion is legal and also
more so just elaborated it on I think what was 1 of our most successful campaigns that was the campaign ruined devoted to portable there was in 2004 and what happened is when the ship was all its weight
the the minister of defense said that we word threat to national security and he sent 2 warships to prevent the ship from sailing in you can see the warships on the picture here and so the ship was never actually able to still into portable as so what we did is we filled out a the this boats to the boat and we had a word gazing we tried to fight this blockage of the minister of defense the 2 courts the dense as Adventist permission to enter with the boat however what happened is that it costs so much
outcry and there was such a public debate that for 2 weeks it was the main discussion in the media in the parliament the prime minister had to intervene the Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs said to intervene there was a discussion in the European Parliament and there was a huge change in public opinion so about 64 per cent of the people supported this campaign readership and as a result of what happened but 1 of the things that led to the fall of the government so the Portuguese
government fell 2 months later and they were new elections and then there's socialist party that supported the legalization of abortion they won the elections with overwhelming majority and abortion was legalized in Portugal and 2 years later so we of course
went to the European Court of Human Rights because we still want to get our right and we won the case against portable that define it is our right to freedom of expression so the last campaign leadership was in
Morocco in 2 thousand 12 and I realized that is not a country when we were there we realize it's so the rule of law and so when the ship was in the harbor the we had already sealed the ship in the harbor before we announced would be there because we wanted to prevent that the harbor would be blocked like in portable and the moment that we raise the flags and like a joy and worse as the the the Navy escorted to ship out to to Spain so we were not able to stay down we did not get a court case you didn't get an official warning a paper which is sold out of the harbor that so we realize even though that campaign was successful because you know it was all out all the Arab media and we have been able to reach out to a lot of women in the Middle East as a result of that but we realize that you know we need some kind of rule of law situation in order to be effective which is that this kind of work and then work
after that so it was very much about training local women's organizations doing direct action this is the launch of a safe abortion aligned in Ecuador where we hang a banner on the statue of is called a virgin of KEDO and so now these groups are giving information about how women can do an abortion themselves because almost appeals are available in pharmacies there a lot of people don't know it but there's 1 medicine and it is called Cytotec or mice for long that limit connects to use themselves of an abortion and that medicine has been registered in almost all countries around the world and and they do many 12 jails for of tablets and a tongue 3 hours there's again a for tablets and 3 hours later again for tablets and think Everwood should know dat regiment by head so wherever you go you know and what you have to do when you have enough and accident and so this was a way to make sure that women know how to properly use medication
this will sustain mortals line launched in Chile the way that this information was
spread by posting the posters over billboards by we did community
trainings by stamping money
like all the activists' tactics Of course
you can also use the new tactics which then scans which also here when you scan it you get the whole instruction in how you have to do the abortion yourself so you can get these T-shirts if you want
to but as a result of our work we started
getting a lot of e-mails as from women out all of the world and we decided
that at least what we should do is to publish on our website information about how women can do an abortion themselves with the medicines that are available and some of the countries for example in mobile quite important portable this medicine was also available about over the counter but most women didn't know about it to local women can have safely abortion for 10 dollars but it's it's a very good are guarded secret by the medical community and so we trying to to a break that's as censorship
that's in some good it's impossible to get that medicine for example in Brazil they totally banned the seals when they found out women are using it for abortions and that is happening more and more of the world so in 2005 he started women wept web is an online help surface so women can do an online consultation and the medical abortions and that their consultations are issued by Dr. description is issued and the medical abortions are sent by mail to their home addresses and and it has already had all its legal challenges and we want so it's now same thing clear that what we do is legal and at this moment it and is about 10 thousand e-mails per month and from women all of the world's in 12 different languages and not all the women who want to have to medicine some of the women just wanna have information or they have other concerns of it so it's the e-mails are really about everything that they wanna ask about their house when we started women where this is
in 2008 it was after our 1st scientific publication of course I mean it was a very extreme project to do that how can you trust me meant to do abortions themselves and 1 of the 10 minutes and above of course that all women are risking their health by using websites of course this kind of media helps because then women Haitian
website and I need an abortion so I can go there and so there's no bad media as we say except for you all of you to that know 10 years later in 2014 this
was a cover story on The New York Times Magazine and it was extremely supportive and so what we've seen in these 10 years that we've been doing this work that there has been enormous shifts in kind of an acceptance of this surface where it was
very radical you know even very much criticized by our own colleagues tool and a very mainstream almost as servers and there's no a lot of fun and websites popping up and doing the same thing this is a
noun but testimony of 1 of the girls and I like it to really because she's from our goal and we help women for free as well we see is an abortion is is a medical emergency you cannot love help somebody because they don't have money and although we ask for donations because it's a nonprofit surface the donations between 70 and 90 euros that's not of women cannot afford it and the other problem is a lot of women don't have credit card they don't have bank accounts they don't have any means to to to give the money anyway so this will go as help for free and she says you know I was even help for free you know who does something like that and we help about 20 per cent of the women for free so also for
women it's very acceptable and it's like they can do it in their own homes with our own support system it's not as difficult as they think it would be it's a life-saving like a Muslim girl that had you know would have been killed if she would have had abortions she could have had it in a very private and a and and so we have a lot of these testimonies of web sites as well because we think we we ask women to post their stories because we think it's a way to break to table and also to generate support for other women that are in the same situation that if they read the experiences of other women that it's easier for them to do it now OK we also
use at the that 1 employee see that actually the Vatican and be used as a virtual reality neo so he had an aunt made where we hang banners and abortion bills a gift from God of older cathedrals in the world that you know for the meeting people
they don't understand this because it's little bit far fetched but I really lost it because I saw that was very subversive to have you know walking in the Vatican and looking through your iPad and seeing and 70 this banner abortion pills a gift from God the other had that we made is a safe abortion pill out and it it's giving information per country so you can select country you can select language you get much clinics are available what are the laws how can you get the bills what are the names of the pills and how to get there and then it's available on the collapse a place to work and I Turing Safire has
of course we use today so now the last container we did was set with a drawn and so what we basically try to do is we try to also explore all the kind of in undetermined legal space says the idea here is because abortion is illegal in Poland's but the drama is not but women are doing taking the pills of 2 drone so they don't appear at the abortion himself and women are not the people important so they can be prosecuted and so then was providing the abortion that is a kind of a very difficult legal questions but we don't know there's no 1 no the complaints
are from the dead then the German aside so we'll see if our legal reasoning will hold and so that the drawn to go off
from Frankfurt an Oder it's true of the refer to deliver the bills in fact components to women opponents took the medicines and saw the Pinellas tells but what happened in the meantime so this
is a little more of the phone will need and then we see an analysis found
yeah the the
the the Eitel and
I think it would be at the content of the universe and in the
end you have a lot of of please use and
the getting in the way I don't know I have president of
the of the yeah because I'm crossing the border
and it's a little less that even at its chairman and even I'm not getting paid for for a flying pills to the other side that do this all as volunteers so my eyes and we we looked at the legal purposes it was allowed to what they say it's not allowed but that we have to find out now was right and
that kind in of so it's only some of this
data because it I in many
think you
and if you have have the
mean and the and the other 1 the key technical magazines for all these sticky people and so it it was really able to reach out to a totally different
there at community so we're going to play with learning some other don't contains rethinking of iron and wood it why so everywhere where this kind of legal differentiation between the different countries and so will do some more of that to see what happens so no OK whether the
challenges of course not the regular
censorship bedside being blocked this is in the wrong I don't know what it's really like that but there's 1 website where you cannot look at what the website was blocked Google ads they have
refused to to to have that are related to abortion services why does that matter
there because what our real interest is is that women find us that if they need help if they need an abortion wherever they are in the world that they are able to find the websites so that they can for access to any kind of help that they need when its local available
medicines where it's a mobile clinic whether it's bills through the web site whatever and so for example this is the body's Google if you will of Ostsee avatars book by abortion opponent then you find women waves on the 2nd page and so that is why it matters it's it's that when Internet matters so much What you see here is I show
you that the Google with the physics of the site of the last 2 years the speech that you see in 2012 is off to the Marco campaign leadership them out over a visitors to the website but you see that after that it became so high so that we couldn't even see the effect of 2 don't contain any more in demand visitors of the website because we have almost a million visitors who know facebook they
refuse they they removed a the it was a a form of censorship it was of course a complaint was somebody faced this that all the time but why does it matter these
messages we get all the time women are finding has to face for because that is what they use I was thinking you have to most city mobile phone what's on there it's Facebook nobody has an e-mail everybody as Facebook account so this girl right says I don't have an e-mail but you know how can I find you what do you do so people are using now Facebook as a search engine they using YouTube as a search engine so these are very important developments I'm so
iTunes they refuse the of course the at we're still fighting it because I 1 of the documentaries that was made by the work it is actually available frightening Celedon it's exactly the
same information which is in there PayPal docked to the nation's 1 of the things is really
difficult is when you do things that are on the verge of legality in different countries Cayman systems get blocked all the time so how do you receive the money and that again on their mobile payments in in in in Kenya you have and beside which is a new day would mobile phones it's getting really important in these countries and so it's not anymore this kind of entertainment but to control in order to be able to get access to an account I get it's huge so I think a lot of the censorship life to actually take place in this domain all of you know like making things is an unsustainable financial and sustainable by not allowing certain
payment systems I'm so we need a distributed network that I was very happy with that talk but we need good search engine with that as well so that's 1 of the other so I'm not
our problem is court cases and there's no court cases have have against the woman in Belfast ordered the medicines for her Dorada 3 sides and she's now for facing and criminal prosecutions and there has
been a woman in the United States will got to medicines over the internet and face when 2 years of imprisonment and of course we always
fail you know everything we do is always kind of or we haven't complained or we have in a court case that's part of our life so we'll see how that works out so late so when you're not yet
finished with me there's just a short if you wanna see more of me there's a short documentary that kicked off a documentary that was released last year and so it is 1 hour documentary about our work and I if you want to know more about it than you can go there but I'll just show the and I was very embarrassed because if you see me too much but and it is that and yes
put up again I'm a
I'm working as a very good
teacher portions of the
same thing because
you choose to be close to the end of
the room during the game
in international waters
unit is in the
and we can and
we knew
we realized that we could
be easily could be the way to
the the I just of
and no many no I
don't know you have my
the and
and that is that after the documentary 1 of the ironies groups they hang a banner on the cathedral of Galway and I thought that was really cold so
it inspires people that's what it's supposed to OK any questions have the this the the the this is have other and commissions these that have microphones by and is I haven't seen the question but can we had of it depends you know the thing is we need people with certain skills and in this sense we have quite a small group of what we always need is people it's strange languages because of the help
desk so you know we started Japanese helpdesk soon in this way the site but also and the people that can help understand there like OK so 1 of the things like 7 of them I didn't so I don't know you just common you have still lies skills and then I can think about and we can work together what is the way that we can do things together yeah so how can I convince you have some also and I think it was in the beginning but if you just put my last sample parts informed of any of those still you'll get me so I I need to tell a story about a don't campaign because this is 1 of the things that I and I think is also getting so that the DTI he said on their website that they're going to implement the no fly zones of the borders and so we were really scared that they already did that because we can know and and so when we were crossing the Dutch-German border Artur was the 1st thing we did on the border to see the fly would try the drum would fly so I think the things we need continued testing so people that no kind of how to act you know too bad and I were with the new war less he said well just the connect the DBS but there's other ways to it as well so people that have this kind of skills it's always interesting next sentence by a friend of evidence just above your relatives were blocking of
of it I mean I my guess is that the user might be made filter and the you know the reason for my king was the abortion here users often harsh you the blocking effect but not at the net taxes is safe again said I haven't said that not always the whole to your own life pointed retrieve rights is yet so when the Commission was of course is because people were so most users of the mall she had no usually they don't look abortion your else and idea I don't I I haven't heard of that that grow filaments block websites as new dead are about abortion or the zona will be interesting
to know which website at this and there and and did that to to see what might be the reason that it you just before the short form 1 of the more people as always did said is that then 1 false you mean that's all you will resume at all do know there was just 1 in Iran and that's the only 1 that we could find it was 1 of the websites of must looking around yeah sorry yeah and next is tired I walk with small project and on the commuter provide tools on enemy of mine which might be crucial to some women use that also we provide source of it censorship rate and it is in a sense that I have I so we
do all these things and that during official Tschira for of and can we Bell yeah we have all this groups is thank you in working notorious that employers but a great that's it yeah we have like for example our help desk people that live in countries where abortion is illegal old they you store always so that they can all be traced back that they are helping to form a country where it's illegal shaking I should use or is that over the problems with this that other work pressures fees convergence he asks the case but all of this was that is is that it was like we use those of he's he's I don't know what is the following so you're asking about you easier of Daily they just if you want to know about the variation in this is for the above I know about all Kay OK traditional methods yeah even in that OK so there's a lot of traditional methods that women use
and that right there is none have been proven to be effective and safe and and that is the problem and that there's a lot of methods out there that people try but not there's nothing that has been proven to be effective and safe I haven't find them in that way the hands of His aging or you wake neighbors and that was done on the right track and underneath the impact on those that were so here and that the and it eventually and and I just got a lot of it is you he then here have the education in these tend to be of the same thing and then to the right is a lot of time A-Z value the use of the environment or not as I can see that there not to you and the people of of and backgrounds and different and biological say cities in January of this year and into
the provided by the principal environment down I was just 10 the main 1 and 2 to kind and that the more education the locations and then to the editor page being given backgrounds and that thank you yeah that's very true that's very important so 1 of the things for example that we had it in that they can is that the training to and community leaders and health workers community health workers and they went in their community indeed talks about women and then the women talks about other people so that the information of and of spreading whereby worth and because it's a really important way to disseminate this kind of information I also what we find a lot they said it's often the boyfriends that are contacting us that are helping and especially for example of middle eastern countries it's often man that our because women don't have studies excess but so there's yeah yeah thank you for rest and you know that here in Texas the act on so hot so large if in the gold in the U.S. that in Texas the politicians of discovered the baby and years restrictive where you cannot be so there's 5 places in the wall axes this isn't diet state so we actually have an organization called Quillen Project now to help us review were in it's OK you know could relocate to 1 of the surgical centers they're allowed to get the portion so what a actually I am really interesting which is saying because we are getting a lot of e-mails from women from Texas as well in this situation there is really really really difficult and so it day I don't know what kind of information you give it would be nice for me to know I know that we have been working with groups in Texas because women can travel to Mexico to buy the mice Personics ball and it's not for some limited too far but for a lot of women is pretty available and and that works for some women but of course for many many many it does not for it's impossible journey to make and it's it's I mean it's a it's a very very tragic situation there yeah do you have the census valued but you say this it's a limit yeah the little project yet and I say it's financial support also to women to will be able to travel to other places yeah and I guess you know some of the information about how much of the drug you're allowed to take if you want to go to Mexico to get around that restricted saying the legal to give that out so there's forcing women to good use surgical centers to portions yet yeah but what is interesting I mean it's easier to get an abortion in Tanzania Kenya out and it is in Texas at this moment and Texas it's legal and again at Eitel so that is the reality no no and the people that I then again and so if lenders and regulate you mentioned that you might have problems with drones of cross international borders and so in fact some of them are programmed to not the to not reach public of beauty and serve special military butenes international borders and that's because we cannot control those roles so an alternative would be using the Sloan flow is fully free softer evasive drone which we can it's of yourself from so you can manufacture it and we can control all the soft around it so you won't run into this kind of problems OK so it is not yet the case they did not yet make no fly zones over the borders but I think it will happen soon and then how can I find you have a view of the project but I was of this is that in the workshop was the creator of this project so it's flown at a little old and he OK Forget LID film OK I'll writing down in moment cakes I think you know so I want to ask women on Waves to women it seems like a fairly organic kind transitional you describe it the way that you have and what can you imagine facing challenges apart from talked about payable systems or you imagine the next 5 years that you might be challenges for your how can you imagine a developing country just the future outlook as well I think that 1 of the biggest challenges that will face is there are about what this is what I said is that the the restrictions of getting access to the medicines locally which as has happened in some countries but it doesn't happen every edited you can only get it in special hospitals and you cannot get in morning pharmacies could the mail from women aware like Brazil we can't get any better I don't know how they do it it would be super nice know how they do it every single package is stopped so Brazil we get a lot of requests is really an awful situation there's no local available medicines people that we can then the merely thing stop that they just stop at the seminar lands and I don't know if you know nothing functions in that country have the 2 male the hand customs do so they don't know if anybody has any ideas about how you could overcome that you're you're welcome to share but I have no idea needs of 3 D printing chemistry going on the we have we take you so but so far no 1 so you can assume only thing so 1 of the things that we thought might work is if you package should fail in that Aluminium Folio and let because if it's done with video our own scanning that it wouldn't be able to to to detect that it is actually builds but then I read somewhere that it doesn't work so we never Trident sorry somebody else yeah I don't know how you packages those of diminished but there is quite a few blog posts on certain dark web forums like this so wrote a talk about actually constants so
that's a very good resource you had a in that is it lessons may nuclear cross constant so male how you can avoid lessons by mail at least an hour and I know that it was good because these 1 good way of getting ourselves and our land use by using the particle examiners person without yet doesn't work retired it so yeah that's something like that if you have any ideas but did not occur at an order line and that works as well we'll all can suggest is checking the blog local solved the world give came on and give it to me but otherwise you thank you thank you brave fair outcomes things thanks and we do it please please send me that e-mail the so it is very important for us to know other locations please they have time I get a piece of the microphone and from a 0 comma decimal 5 and 1 question is illegal for a person to transform business scene and not when it's so then the law says that you're allowed to carry for 3 months worth of your own medication in any country what is 3 months of abortion pills I don't know what that but whether it's 1 tickets to a 3 4 5 how often gave get pregnant instruments so that is what the regulations say so people can take it with them you know that is absolutely possible where we can know what kind of network of friends yeah they have some come frame from which was you we that that is so if we can make make a big big network of people that take traveling and they can take the medicines with them that is possible now so that would be something to do a common ground and go to a mobilization thing on I wish to do that we have any experience but then that now he could not related items and other such as well that it will be interesting please as a result of this type of and I'm wondering if you been personally targeted because of your work in this field and how we manage to overcome that initiated by a continuing to work and hostile environments on you well as you can see most of our campaigns are actually quite a lot of fun even though it's stressful but it's it this is what someone hopeful it's not just and the kind of fighting the mad and because we just do things that give joy as well and I think that as the noise-free portents on and I think for me and actually for everybody working on the help desk it's all the e-mails that we get every day of women that are in need and that we can actually help most of them not all of them but 95 per cent of we can help and I think that is very motivating and that is very empowering for a by and I think that we're very lucky in that sense that we are able to actually do something select from badges 10 2nd term and it always but it almost sounds too easy but has its view of a single psychologically to to take a handful of tales of thought for those people who are in countries where you can get an abortion and is it still might have to go to a surgical facilities is anyway to decide that have held in physical and OK so I think it's it's really 2 different mass that's so it's very different for women I have to you cannot underestimate the fear that women have because they're scared they're doing it in this circumstance where there's faded of support but there's a big temple and where they are doing something that is breaking the law woman in on it and go to jail for 14 years and for doing that and and so I think the word easy does not apply here and i if it ever highest have if it ever applies to a to a to a to a decision like that do think though that is found a simple way is only exaggeratedly and was easy at all slightly and that that our surgical facilities yeah this is a much more involved process yet those cities how do how would you decide to do good good medicine was well I mean actually when women are Council most women choose to have a medical abortion and in most countries like in France in Sweden and in other places where access to the Services equal 80 percent of images of medical abortion women choose to have a searchable abortion because they wanna be as you know and it's a process it's a lower process medical abortion and they wanna just you know they they did just adopt bear their or a data format I have no so I think it's a it's a very different choices for different people that they have different needs and I and I think the only 1 that can make it is the moment that needs it he is by I come up with the support costs millions so all the digital stuff the website the the apps that you showed for Android and so on that open source so if I am a program so my skills of programming and when I want to hope is that possible yet it's well we we hire people to do it but they used all open source and it's also using Creative Commons so everybody can use whatever they want change it use it whenever they want in itself research programming have people that are using it yeah and it's on the head that their their initiation that is doing all it says is called an know if above and so a lot of model and it is not has no so it's only the Colts atomic and they use old open-source there but the reality yeah things change so please if you have anything to improve or better that would be wonderful this is 1st that they had no more questions take your words and on the I don't know if get that some of the mission of world is this and that so as think you know there's the think in in the months of the year and in in the and recommendations in 1 you're standing on my website it was here come in bright and conditions that we can't communicate with you it has led to the need of something that yeah OK so that the way the system works and it's a norm on the website is connected to with the back office and the back officers totally security and all information is the Storting creeped out and the e-mails are sent through the website to them at how the web and they entered his back office system so the back of a system is still the security environment and that the people there doing it I what I understood from them is that they have a very good to any they had been put some people wanted to try to hack it and they didn't when was able to do it that I don't invite you to do that I think you could because of people you're probably better better of that so you have got to have she students only where there's the program OK guys right at the back of the stuff I this Drinfeld publish the information that is no but I hate yes I think we worked with really secure and include information but we have people that do that I don't do that so and I was the only disease you add operate from the Netherlands i then developments and law in the Netherlands and if you're afraid they will change you will not be able to and continue your work OK so we have actually women always is working from the Netherlands that criminal letterspacing come about and so on and so it ends the doctors to the working fluid are based in a variety of countries so delayed was set that is to make sure that every part of the surface was legal rights was being done and so there's quite a lot of jurisdictions involved with liminal waves the web in there that on analysis actually portion is also still in the criminal code and that it's only allowed to do it when you're doing it in a special clinic with 2 license but the exception is for very abortions and that is what the ship 6 Nov weeks of pregnancy so it's very narrow time frame and now the problem we have now in in attendance is that these new Minister of Health says that actually still also criminal to do that although we want all this kind of fucking court cases so it I mean 1 minister says like she's still illegal and you know everybody just follows it so it's very frustrating that's a very frustrating part but said so we can always continual our work from the ship as long as the law in the Netherlands doesn't change because we have that the jurisprudence there and with liminal that but we have also had our legal challenges and a in we were on the board cases so that is secure as well and I don't think that I mean the color that there is no abortion all so I don't see that there's that is going to change Cerf I like that dead referral services face there the doctors are based on grounds and then the medicines are shipped from somewhere else again and then there only a part where actually it is legal or illegal is the moment the women take details because the women are also allowed to import its for their own use in most countries except for Ireland and Roselle high I have a question again circumventing these made block did you try sending the peers from different sources like that of of the and to it goes well for 3 weeks and then it's locked again so yeah we cellular phone is very high at times I sold the control is very good yeah yeah and I think actually there might actually be tracked down what we're doing I so that I don't know it's really hard to find out how these systems work in the prison systems and then yeah think you yet thanks while if the workers he I have 1 question yes please I haven't voted over them at the at the train station in Connes saying this evening and if there somebody at tribes there I would like to have a right so when it comes with some it had to make do with so many has because I don't think there's a bus anymore but for them so if someone wants to die for please talked to thank you very much you let was very informative the the


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