Can Distros Make the Link? Let's Package the Customizable, Free Software Web of the Future!

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Can Distros Make the Link? Let's Package the Customizable, Free Software Web of the Future!
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Distributions - Can Distros Make The Link
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Point (geometry) Computer program Server (computing) Building Open source Divisor Multiplication sign System administrator Sheaf (mathematics) Virtual machine Set (mathematics) Online help Mereology Disk read-and-write head Formal language Optical disc drive Goodness of fit Hypermedia Authorization Series (mathematics) Descriptive statistics God Default (computer science) Distribution (mathematics) Email Link (knot theory) Key (cryptography) Structural load Software developer Projective plane Moment (mathematics) Open source Shared memory Variance Virtualization Line (geometry) Instance (computer science) Cartesian coordinate system Variable (mathematics) Subject indexing Process (computing) Software Personal digital assistant Configuration space Right angle Quicksort Freeware Arithmetic progression
Computer virus Complex (psychology) Group action Execution unit Direct numerical simulation Medical imaging Hypermedia Different (Kate Ryan album) Office suite Physical system Link (knot theory) Constraint (mathematics) Regulator gene Software developer Quadrilateral Electronic mailing list Shared memory Sound effect Bit Maxima and minima Instance (computer science) Complete metric space Web application Category of being Process (computing) Order (biology) Chain Computer music Knowledge-based configuration Quicksort Figurate number Ranking Point (geometry) Computer file Patch (Unix) Online help Drop (liquid) Declarative programming Product (business) Number Latent heat Goodness of fit Term (mathematics) Hacker (term) Energy level Lie group Nichtlineares Gleichungssystem Address space Default (computer science) Distribution (mathematics) Uniqueness quantification Counting Generic programming Line (geometry) Cartesian coordinate system System call Graphical user interface Word Finite difference Personal digital assistant Network topology Mixed reality Universe (mathematics) Video game Table (information) Functional programming State of matter Multiplication sign Direction (geometry) Set (mathematics) Frustration Parameter (computer programming) Mereology Public key certificate Formal language Web 2.0 Mathematics Bit rate Hooking Cuboid Vulnerability (computing) Email Concentric Moment (mathematics) Open source Fitness function Perturbation theory Variable (mathematics) Type theory Direct numerical simulation Configuration space Website Self-organization Right angle Ocean current Domain name Dataflow Server (computing) Mobile app Implementation Functional (mathematics) Virtual machine Heat transfer Operator (mathematics) Software testing Installation art Addition Multiplication Validity (statistics) Database Configuration management Human migration Subject indexing Abstraction
Word Link (knot theory) Mapping Googol Open source Commutator
User interface Installation art Link (knot theory) Interior (topology) Server (computing) Open source Sound effect Shareware Wireless LAN
Point (geometry) Functional (mathematics) User interface Addition Structural load Multiplication sign Mereology Semantics (computer science) Shareware Goodness of fit Mathematics Term (mathematics) Operator (mathematics) Software Endliche Modelltheorie Information security Error message Physical system Link (knot theory) Real number Server (computing) Consistency Open source Code Bit Instance (computer science) Control flow Cartesian coordinate system Information privacy Computer graphics (computer science) Type theory Word Right angle Library (computing)
Functional programming Presentation of a group Group action Context awareness Multiplication sign View (database) Execution unit 1 (number) Frustration Inverse element Solid geometry Mereology Encapsulation (object-oriented programming) Web 2.0 Component-based software engineering Bit rate Hypermedia Cuboid Area Email Link (knot theory) Open source Electronic mailing list Sound effect Parallel port Staff (military) Bit 3 (number) Computer Type theory Web application Digital rights management Sparse matrix Right angle Problemorientierte Programmiersprache Figurate number Quicksort Point (geometry) Slide rule Functional (mathematics) Server (computing) Service (economics) Open source Virtual machine Mass Distance Declarative programming Operator (mathematics) Utility software Distribution (mathematics) Dependent and independent variables Denial-of-service attack Cartesian coordinate system Integrated development environment Software Personal digital assistant Factory (trading post) Video game Abstraction
Slide rule Presentation of a group Email Link (knot theory) Computer file Open source Electronic mailing list Data conversion Disk read-and-write head
Server (computing) Email Link (knot theory) State of matter Open source Black box Mereology Type theory Word Centralizer and normalizer Spring (hydrology) Internetworking Computer music Right angle Table (information) Communications protocol
Slide rule Email Link (knot theory) Googol Multiplication sign Open source Electronic mailing list Insertion loss
and all the alright for the things that I think I said Chris enables whereby media that language is a decentralized media harvesting project it's been evaluated the GPL and and we'll I need said well when the Syrian media island goal is for it to be really easy for the folks that I necessarily think admins to close the media on a free place a smaller share something less large Inc. and the like or you choose and as the same building the software and that had similar zloty some parts that were hard all all OK they let him we could not in the sense of like our a cooler increased late when can I have immediate island installation and and that the load so we year see when the article The Times Online that that now and I think a pain in the butt and and that kind of question on it so we haven't quite gotten so that part yet so we've been looking at different ways to me I mean line series again stopped and the reason for this is that 1 because we love freedom and we want everyone have it not only sysadmin lovers and until I not only the active users that don't wanna come pilot applications from source and there are lots of people who would like to be unintelligible is folks that don't want to compile an application from source and maybe you have rarely friends or colleagues on the variance then I'm not interested in the sand meaning their own instances media guidelines and perhaps not lived in Africa come where everyone is excited to install their own applications all the time but for the rest of i that means that you the odds on a network was posted on a compile from source or even worse you have to compile all their applications for them and maintain them which is also not so far so that's the goal here is to get media have to be a super easy I installed the anyone can you so of earlier still not the talk acting 1st such I not classed package free software when abseil factor OK so I'd say that 1st of all the most we're aware applications are unfortunately at this time not actually is will packaged we like them to be and so that actually is for distributions of these so that usually means that the developers actually that people who wish to install them can affect the fight with the language uh packaging tools which unfortunately means that I URI having a fight with virtual and 4 pi bond and head and stuff like that or whatever you know you're you're all like and PM with like nodes then data or whatever your little kind of flavor of of that moment is and what that that's somewhat but so we I we really like to get things packaged for distributions because unfortunately a lot of that kind of you know language-specific packaging stuff that means well 1 more tool to do this and oftentimes they break in ways that actually require you to be kind of a language author in that language that happens to exist which obviously is great because we don't want this to be just for developers right we want this to be usable for much more than that so so I think at this point we can at least say Deac the get distrust a package for example of applications but you know that there are some if we can get that the happen that the great there's some things that happening we need governance for example in the process of being package for deviance of by Simon STI and some other people but but so there is this progress but we look to see more progress so also there cool so I'm having a package fairly we rely on a couple other distributions in the well unfortunately I getting the 3 applications packaged for our for distros what is a good 1st step but there's a lot more that's needed than that so what makes a story since he was well OK so I think I think a good way to be able to explain this is you know like how about e-mail right I could also easily had for a long time and she DVD on me and I can dirty dirty giant Lebanon and make em mainly seemed when he's feeling well so only description minus so what I do as I have uh I don't care foods that set up on my server to as will transfer agent in the 2nd sentence e-mail and then I have it process to prop male so that you can now you know filter everything out indicate the right even painted to SpamAssassin spam folder things 0 and then I I I I downloaded from die of God you know I have things configured on my machine and on the service so that I can actually go and budgetary with me so far OK and then when I program under my machine i are index it with uh something called and you and then and I open it up and you 40 which is in the next section we only know and that's and that is super simple i you just have to remember how to figure all these applications are missing them altogether and and so the even e-mail which has been around for a really long time you think you could just apt-get install e-mail but it doesn't seem to be quite that way so then so so e-mail so you have to do all that stuff because you did verified the when and control your own and and then sort in a way you look at it that right now there's a lot of configuration that's involved the other day well I said so is that is that the case for all other application could we have as much here e-mail solution into 1 being immediate from the other way so I think the thing is is that packaging helps but you know that some wishing the package that the configuration of the package that are right there I right so they can listen configurations the packet will having a good default configuration the package helps somewhat but I think that a significant this part is actually has to do with the need to do more configuration stuff with an distributions hot so more configuration right so whether applications have like a ridiculous amount of configurations stuff you know we have in that can help someone for example and at the end we have that kind and friends and that able to you know we can we can get to the heart is so weak that it will help you know the 1 a lot of the gaps on certain parts of it but if you but it doesn't seem to come to complete the whole thing like the whole the the whole side of things like I if you if you wanna try to see things together and then they go off here but the silly season in tiny actually tight all these different variables for you to have a lot of key right right so OK so we could start with minimalist configuration and some basic assumptions which is often what times what we do and we can usually be there at a certain amount of malleability Our within the application but unfortunately I think he I think we have can have default settings but but it gets a little more complicated well but also find out why it gets more complicated and FIL yet you have a you can aptly OK right so so
for example 1 of the ways in which things get more complicated is that all of these things require a lot of things and mashing together right so usually for example organ install media goblins you also need people who go to Apache üringen acts a whatever like that right and unfortunately that means that the the secret the configuration of a patch your engine acts or whatever I means that we also need to know about the media government regulation right and I don't know are not really handling this type of thing because it's really hard to get those that configuration the default stuff that happened to where it actually knows about each other so that's really hard and also do we need your prior viable in 2 immediate provide you know whether the like defaults for Apache acts like TDB you know like up all of these different but the web application way so that seems like that's starting to get pretty complex at that point right yeah absolutely that is any not to mention not to mention it it's even more complex and don't not use a single stop working on is the word that note know that the more the but rate thinking of yes OK flow of unfortunately even more complex is SSL DNS and its right so you have your application and then you wanna have the here and we actually want to even appear under domain name and unfortunately that also not only requires inter connecting different things like you know interconnecting with all your that SSL search that you generate which is a big in the but complex process for anybody who's actually done such a thing but also hooking up those SSL certificates requires and with DNS and etc. that requires you actually go over to some sort of other organization which has some of the word right you need actually configuration can stuff on the web server and yellow and there were through the web configurations up and seeing things back and forth right you need a copy of your key you'll see the set of the DNS stuff and they need to set that up back in your server and need to look that up in your media governed and invade and then hook it up in your Apache can take at that point everything starting to get frustrating and you also need to have your Apache convey probably as some some of the same settings as a real is a real transfer to but not quite the same settings and in so start to get a big mess about point let them know that even the so when we use the you know the language well in the homogeneous at some things broadly painted the speed of the unit OK so you know they're like once a twice year maybe you know you have to go in and remember earlier I map lies in your app lies in like where outgoing e-mail address less variable and and sat on a set of silicon you just you know so except maybe like once every other year but then you'd be good for the injury right so that but that so that 1 before it has it so so but before we get to that 1 I let's get to the frustration of some of the finest the inside of the and fit with the issues of databases right looking good databases themselves are also another issue of your frustration right because usually on your database and the being frustrating because it also I because well usually databases to upgrade themselves like that this that the database configuration that handle all post breast when I recently upgraded it several times and that various testing I had the basically . my Debian important several times but the more frustrating thing is that web applications when they get upgraded usually have to go through something like migrations in order to be able to keep the same schema valid between all the different operators and that's something that isn't necessarily easy to handle all the time within applications like packaging although you potentially can but is just 1 extra extra bit of frustration so so on a silly thing is to ask me increased and Laney and and his easy OK so you're saying that we will have a myriad of of the quad adored immediate eximious productions dot that that are on the same server in order to simplify things right well from the main tree it will unfortunately for me that would make things even more complicated because the the distros could actually be able provide wanted defaults for all these applications none of the distros have a particularly awaitable that provide these for multiple instances the application right so if you have a that they too if you want to don't count that compass setting of default values for all of your media governance this it would probably set up the default values for 1 media instance but the type of infrastructure that isn't doesn't seem to be there all in order to be able to install things for you know it in this gets more complicated all the way up the chain of things that are acidic a more complicated right both configuring the application and figuring the web server and all that stuff it means that you need to actually have a configuration where a table handle multiple sites here so that's actually give were hoping to have this somewhat text within these types of steps in the tools that we already have that actually makes it harder for me to the floor and the server this OK the yeah so that that we want to find out if well well OK so you know you gotta machines actually set up in Figure right but keeping your machine that they have the knowledge of the all the different layers of things can actually itself be really complex right so so what happens the next time the happens right and by the time this point you've got the servers right and you have to go out and of the all the regret which is 1 of the reasons why DevOps is growing in popularity in etc. right and it will you have an intrusion can it detected per the problem as since you became figuring all these things by hand since you know I decided I'm going to end up you know what I've set up the server and I decided 0 yeah and then also handle dance around the same thing and I have this kind of special so a snowfall unique snowflake of a server right I changed all these configuration parameters and I updated all these things and now when I have to go install new server I'm like terrified ever shut down all the then terrified that I actually remember all the things that I changed all the packages I installed all the configuration file that would some specific ways I don't know and so like I mentioned on that server all deactivated from there and then that I forgot something really important I only remember how I set up so the special snowflake nests of setting up and maintaining a server make that extra hard to keep this going and maybe it's the maybe something everything just broken you need to move but it moving could be really hard at that point the so I didn't do this whole talk the just convince everyone in this room to be depressed page and that that up so at this point we we should talk about things that might be a well but but still and we've been hearing lots about containers containers are kind and the new hotness and they like fix everything like all this kinds of things in Henan the not well continues the interesting because it is a way to be able to provide isolation to the application that during and 1 of the big complaints about 0 it's so hard to be able to you know install like this application it requires all these dependencies and yet people think that then you know we don't have the equivalent of like you know like what is called as getting angry 1 and only care about when struggle but is getting angry anyway and so a bunch of people on another getting angry because he had some problem with the capitalist so they're like all but the doctor will fix it right because doctors get package all the stuff in there and but now you've got a container full dependencies that are going to becoming outdated and that's not really helpful and but in my was in terms of having process isolation right in terms of like maybe some sort of specific vulnerabilities found within this application it might be helpful if you're using the containers in that designed in a very secure way that's not like doctor that they will be able to like at that like you won't be able leak out of that and mess up the rest of the system so continuous might all the help but the current thing that's happening is if you have a bunch of if if you're if you're envisioning the future work
continues ImageQuant affects all the things because dobras really cool logo that might actually not entirely fixed things because it is it's a really cool I'm not making fun of our life and making from something idea but have but but like you know Dr. is also kind of at the point where you know it's like sure never based image for the install and then you can build like smaller adjustments up from there but you're still kind of ending up in the the world of like 1 gigabyte per binary so I'm not really sure this entirely fixes the world that we want and yes it has a configuration management system like that to be build a set up and the 4 things but if you have the what I think what we really need is a more generic configuration management system so some kind of I cannot see virtual from viruses kind is laced and statue on rank actually so I actually think that what but you know the whole world and sible Sultan chef and stuff like that is actually an interesting place to explore right so the whole dev after world but I don't think is a full solution and so on in part of the thing is is that like devil office focused on developers write down it's got Devon the name right it's developer-oriented and also seems to be oriented at people working for big corporations right like we don't really wall individual hackers can you the presumably to take care of the servers still big extra layer of things they have to learn on top of everything else you have to learn it doesn't seem to be simplifying the number of things you have to learn in the universe is like now we can maybe help you take care of all the other things you would have to take care of right and so it has a really good idea it is a really great it does seem to be that the whole idea of declarative declarative systems does seem to be an idea that's moving in the right direction right so I think I think is in terms of our potentially good ideas we should keep this 1 at the top of our heads and think about a little bit more how we might agree OK so let me see me they were very friendly and then we can call it a day Ops after Dad OK yes so that the idea of making more very friendly and so will hold Ops so what would that not to be right so that the Asian treebank right you know I think there's been concentrated rocks and everybody will prove and so on so I actually think that gooey systems on top of configuration management systems might help a lot right so if you build maybe some abstract concepts of recipes on top of the configuration systems but maybe you could actually build some recipes from which you don't necessarily have to know about everything that's within that recipe in order to be able to deploy it right so I so think in some this triple have been talking about this but as far as I know like distributions have not actually been working to try to incorporate the same level of a configuration management things into the distribution is certainly not in a way that's like oriented towards like graphical user interfaces but a good idea look at the yeah OK so we have a long list of things that won't work on their own you know like uh those are like that is incomplete so well we could ask so so it's handling containers alone don't seem to fix it because of all the reasons I complain about in configuration management the system seemed to be in a good direction of things but they're along the 2 corpora Dev focused right for what we take some of these ideas and we start to move around with them for so I so maybe some solutions to explore that something is a kind of more of a call the actions of the configuration system with recipe thing I think is actually something that can be really useful are DevOps is focused on developers usually working for large companies but what if what if we have but in you can use them for user oriented stuff but it's not really basically of optimized for book 1 if there were ways the can assure that the current state of sharing is all I uploaded the recipes to get out right so you just go find those and basically the same as like you know like it's like having a solution right that that's not yet that at those by hand and etc. but what if we could take a little bit further you know what we want from them how the user opts right on border parts you know that box is also the light that think but with we in the interlinking Carmine's you Collier's debiased right you know maybe uses the DAB out implementation of the user opts concept right so but if you take configuration management systems and you think that they have these various places in which you know you need to be able to specify certain things you need to specify a domain name here you about the specified in know like which organs you have here and stuff like that you can think those are some variables that users can help them right so if you think about what would have been the describing what types of things are associated with those variables this once a text box this once you know basically a drop down this 1 for what we were able to describe that and then provide the presiding presented a graphical user interface actually show the user and which means they could select from this might be a good step in the right direction right and then you know if we could build these in a way that they were in a specifically designed to deal with set up what you were the mobile deployable so that you could basically say and the point is 1 of the few times a week you both have dense thing in my thing and that's a machine and were not stuck to the same constraints that exist in that conference on etc. on it we actually in distributions so I think this is the thing word distributions as they exist now maybe could start thinking about solutions of having an additional layer within additional layer on top of actin young and it so I think that this is something worth exploring I I don't have this is a complete answer I've been experimenting with some things I don't but I think that this is something worth thinking about so another thing that I think is interesting and worth thinking about is our you know will functional distros are really interesting new right now so that's not a complete in solution on its own but I do like the idea of declarative systems are moving declared systems outside of just a configuration that uh language also movement towards the distribution itself does seem to be a good idea maybe can apply some other ideas and pop and thus the distributions are playing around with this more and of course we indexing peaks and stuff like that they're going with this quite a lot but of course of and so the ability to deploy something and also be able to step back and forth if something goes wrong is probably very helpful especially in the many cases you know that we describe this problems earlier but but of course you know functional distributions probably carries on the same problems of functional programming of right as in terms of we need a user story of clear that any of the existing explanations of what a moment is and how works right you can explain the users have an answer no no I'm saying we want to not have to do the right thing for some of these ideas of functional distributions we better do a better job than we are currently of explaining the concept behind functional program and I think it use a you need actually the men and monitor what's it what's but I don't know now on the flat level in the group provides that it has the effect of that is constantly growing up in the time in current I was a suggestion that later the Navy again so anything but of our so I find all of which are the picture this here but the but so there is something interesting happening with the answer sandstorm I think as has an interesting properties of concepts right and on the line she did that changes in the back as she would love to talk to you about sense but you can ask them about it you will give you at minimum a half hour equation probably but the year figures and shirts but there there are some interesting things happening with us in spirit that actually think fit into the things I said earlier I you kinda up not to mention the fact that all they have a good will go yeah I think what
that and I can't tell you that's really bad so you take a In the commute media's finishing mapping and maybe just latter an let's call whenever and you have my hands work but the words here I think it is happening from the state whether you're going to have
to go from issues yeah I think that's true out of even with you were the words here some transferred over chromium no longer like me
OK when a switch it over here very go no German-style again
there's there's the effect of this thing has some good ideas I think actually our 1 of ideas that has that's good I although now I've lost my notes so is that and that is the interior of this container based in way that's that's what that's deployable as not just like I'm handing you this large distribution inside of this huge spike basically binary that you have no way to to do anything with them that will slowly become out about to date you have no plans of about update later right so the sandstorm has a better ideas and that are 1 of them is that it does actually have a nice web user interface we can just go and click install something but in fact Ashish cajoled me before that before this Conference on that our on
data the need for ultimately conceived an example of the so
we have a try to download
now but see if this worthwhile so you can just click TriMedia goblins and it sets up a throwaway instance that will disappear later
on but they're just at the instance right now also 1 of the interesting things behind this is that it's container-based but the way the containers actually exist if they are and are the you don't end up writing in user data inside of the container you actually result of error right so the I'm so when you're upgrading the thing you're accident upgrading container and then all the users data wasn't even in the container anyway so the operator is pretty simple but assume the it functions like a sand that said it doesn't mean that the security lies Italy consonants and yourself right produces a capability-based security model also something interesting to export where our on to really keep things contained inviable to keep its about your your servers able that you can constrain what types of things that are happening so you're not too whispering everything up but the and but the i in I so I think this has a lot of good ideas especially because they're all that magic it's mostly hidden from people who don't have to know which I think is really great as in terms of our our exploring what these idea I will give some caveats I've given Ashish most of these caveats so she should thinking about them but some of these caveats are for example or I don't know I have library thing are in it's confusing to me as she should probably explained that somebody is not up here but the Canadians have an audience that he feels like he has a good explanation all 1 the have I the the of the the the OK that's think situation but so they the some of the other things that I think you're a bit odd are up the disease Kimberly security which is also and as I've expressed she's those she shouts as a semantic point few things I do think the capabilities spirit security does not require re doing certain parts of your application which is a bit messy and it also I and it also means that on that our current applications are considered legacy applications as opposed to the future of applications with the Polaris wording and the via an end and say it's kind of for me right now it's kind of hitting the uncanny valley of deployment like it's almost like it's almost what I would see it as like a good deployment system but then like this some parts of who here's another of uncanny valley OK but you people for those of you don't it's like when computer graphics and et cetera you have like some sort of realistic looking human like Choon characters you can get away with the animation being worse etc. than you can with realistic characters because the more we will close on the closer it gets the more creepy gets when they're not quite right so like the UN can value for me when I this is coming so close to what I want that like the things that are not writer what's really bothering me the hopefully I can keep annoying Ashish about them and then they will get better over time and you know yet OK going a really good annoying change we have here the practice so so yeah so that's
about sandstorm our while it's really confusing and with the but so so what's what's going to laugh I which is a but unless the ball the experimenting which I have the same slide was less that I had this morning some not ask Europe which just from that of the stuff like make the future things but I think that I think there were really needs to happen is that i is is that distance you be willing to experiment with these ideas actually consider that some of the existing tools and I don't think the packaging of exists right now is sufficient i for all the reasons that X and and the could distros where future in helping users we'll get to the point where we're not stuck in such a shitty world where everybody's running Gmail etc. right and that requires that this would be willing to take on the next layer of things a mess around with these things and and probably fail sometimes but actually you know the succeeded others right so just so can experimentation I think is the last major component of all life of which availability for weeks last like the last slide in a certain sense but also an empowering 1 another right here and now a even tighter that's why it's very young right will have happen Bush's that were shoes and figures in practice is some more credits and finally here's the thing so this talk taken together all the ingredients previously on the slide in the presentation and brought to a banana so I think everybody look out in the season at the end of the questions and comments it led to hear the things that people are working on and then we all know that all our the parts that go in the meanest daily think that a lot of things that I you think that we did left out as far as I you know we will only hear from you had about what what you'd like to see happen so any constant in you of the of the of the of the of the and of course it is all knowing the all FIL dead that kind they functional at distributions only functional programming they can be and and declared itself but more parentheses yeah so through the roof with our view that through I do agree that you don't necessarily have to be a functional forever on understand things but I think that also parentheses are probably not enough either right we need some clear from tunnel parentheses because like I love for us to fly kind of this bound on if you saw my talk yesterday it was like like it's quite high as I described it which is a with the transforms a pipe on abstract from factory hall where if you should check it out I discovered this trial area the high wears on you know like I mean like I personally am of the view of why wait staff in like readable by Michael you compatible when the the right because I will but the but I do think that life and I as much much as I think I would be happy messing around parenthesis environment I want people who never going to touch blessed to be able to get into this type of stuff right but I do agree you know it's not necessarily have to be a functional programming to get into this stuff because of declarative stuff right but I got and I think functional programming can really bring us like functional package managers can really bring us a long way from and that's why I brought in their you know about the but I think that even with a function of that package managers we have think about next we're opt for kind of like the user stuff which thankfully if you're in a declarative environment you know like who this is great when you have a lot of parentheses referring to devise added domain-specific language for the next layer effects so we know what we should I on the the but no 1 think of it as a the the the yeah I so that as inverse you people would you yet so we should have a mailing list a savvy that's a big problem a lot of people and work on is kind and I think this is about to say that he's he's in that the I'm in the on is the 1st what not dealt with right he's she knows we're working long enough to get having to our so that through actually are mounted in the immediate Alan milling what can we get evidently the other but the I think Ashish might actually know more about this and other deadly and have 1 of these right for quite a long time but it's been very inactive but we want to be broader than that into right and so do you know of anything else that's like this like here I have a feeling I might be missing something obvious but I actually think that so you don't think there's anything so that I think you're right the is OK so that answer is is the distributions of predistorter or not mailing list OK and we could use that as a way to be a list of alright well I will hop on the distributions mailing list after this talk and hopefully you will as well and maybe we can use that as a start but I do agree that I do agree that we should have something like this to discuss the on this presentation is your right this is a big problem in this presentation you know is helpful in pointing out some ideas but that there you know that the on-going work on this an ongoing thing is what's really important so that talk all although the rich and liberation tech let's the and on I was
going to say anyone you once said paying Prasad media Thailand . org I knew well appointed cracked list 3 if it turns out that 1 of the ones that was mentioned here is more dead than previously assumed you know so maybe maybe we need to do an assessment of this afterwards and out figure out whether or not something is sufficiently to try to distributions saying or maybe not and of starting a new 1 or something but if we give animals will figure out in less than an OK but anyway response I understand and here OK we have a little of the the the people also add using the w this histories and constantly ask sim bias in meiosis L elected to the animals that prejudice utility but it and so have you know a guy who said it a little burden the packet out units and now you think I would not be even have a leg not part of the Web applications are so there I that that's a great come at know there is a distribution and some of the e-mails In it's still hybridize anything and also I think we just from the mass up 4 . com which is a animal brushing and other animals to you what you think are there are any of the other part of the question the OK you that it I thought that was going on in the world and what OK so actually that's a great question the question is if we're talking about users installing something are they talking about starting on the desktop operating on a web server something I think it should be either right you know I actually think that like in there but a lot of these attempts at them like what install it on this specific tiny device that you run in your house arrest in solid on it's a lot that yes have flooding of the freedom boxes but I think a lot of of that have noble Goals but you know like we don't have a specific act that's just for servers versus Holmes machines I think that it makes sense to be able to have something that people can do that for any the service rate is the generic enough problem where it should be all the work for your whole machines you know or your service I actually think the answer is either right it should be a generic is apt basically I'm or or beyond I'm sorry I'm probably offending all sorts of distributions by saying and so on but we In the case of 0 so the question was if you're it's in the middle on the desktop that in the desktop is going become a server right that they have they're not well so the desktop and server thing is complicated because I the before and etc. and stuff like that and so the the I know that it was possible if network routing worked great where you can make a desktop III the server you know I know the that these 1 person in the audience who has no local machine from that here on sparse some really great Network Services stuff on and so I think that's great if you could do that on you know like the whether or not you know a lot of stuff isn't really desktop software but if the net effect that were little bit differently in the highlight the respective probably no reason you could write on but this the but I actually think there might be there might be a parallel with the 1 parallel that comes in here with desktop software and applications after coming and saying is that even with people's desktops I think people are hitting the frustration that's like you give my desktop shuts down you know like like it's going to be really annoying for me to reproduce must using a functional part is that were with parentheses the really difficult and annoying for me to get my my desktop that the way that it was before right and so that's actually what peril happens even if not necessarily about server software I think do we have more time and we just right now the and then great city can take that 1 more questioning then I will of it the the and what well could there be later technical people maintain your server as the user without accessing your dad mn she's is lying to say that sandstone kind of uh what so are have Tahoe sandstorm out earlier a fast at some point all that but a good instance and if you wanna lower blind eye that kind of encapsulation but if I mean that were correctly in a context of a group of any like 101 so the
the yeah the while the and the the the and I can't wait for us to have this conversation on the mailing list but it did you have a head file and their but another of a note why is there is the need of all I have evil any commercial lending had an answer so we can cover the in that I've given I guess I have probably the reason why we can do is is that my talk about that in every other presentation we give and so like we're like this the room and you know it but but what I guess it's worth talking about so why do that in fact I have a slide from a whole other presentation so
I might call the spring up but others
because that doesn't work yeah I don't know or maybe can type anymore so no I'm not aware that the short answer is right so the Internet become scary gear place right like Gmail for example healing the a federated protocol and how many people actually run their own e-mail servers now right I do right and then my stuff this that male users spam and nobody else in the black box and I can find out why the congenial doesn't use the same stuff as everyone else in the frustrating and so like that that like that just 1 example of many of like the things that we have that were previously decentralized are all becoming more and more centralized right like everything is becoming more and more centralized right now while we know that centralization is killing right like that state is able to demolish it right like we are and that can get ourselves out of this situation because the stock relying on a table right here where words that on that company you know to do all stuff right we need to we need ways will break so so I think that's a simple explanation of part the answer is right now you tell somebody gets really running around things etc. etc. put all and we will be
able OK so why am I think we have
just about as time and Wednesday is then about will
be body pose this dimensionless use slides on immediate island outward and and we once we figured out with this mailing list is going to be of net loss to be posted on a
website I hope that you will all comes at you collect Erik Jan 9 was still look under the same island clearly have a bubble over of much more crises many to happen so we look for it adding that lead you thanks printing money and