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Homebrew - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of OSX Packagin

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however 1 uh and how well this might work working or not so if anyone the back can and bacteria they I know some people can't some can't so we wouldn't thumbs-down already it's not going well uh trying to shout got a bit of a cold and they end up walking into the microphone and so as a nice starting point I realize is served by automatically apologize for my Mac for the working for a company that's not open source and 4 helping other people to use max and installed evidence source but not enough so I apologize in advance and I'm not really sure on the makeup of people here so 1st thing I'd like to ask is just a show of hands how many more part of her the my passenger argue that's reason number how many people like kind of data they are using max is the kind of primary computer things good also quite a lot and how many people are work on some sort of Linux package manager OK I'm sure this too much crossover there for that to be true but I'm not argue you right so I'll try and talk in this talk like in the past talks about memory being sort of it here's the basics of 100 dollars but because it's going the distributions from here I thought people who kind of know and care about things like Linux distributions might have some interesting things for me to learn and I might maybe have some adjustments feeds on as well so I'm going to give bad and the ugly and that's basically what I see as the things remember dollars well maybe better than similar package managers other really know this stuff which we can struggle with and the ugly is what Pollock is that's been going on in the talk about right but also like that's the stuff I personally find this kind of hottest imagine keeping the project rolling so my name is mike
equates and I work at get help as an engineer and i've been working on her room for about 6 years now and her room get Harbaugh fairly tightly coupled together as you may have noticed so give me what you get probably result of me being a fanboy job for quite a while through using Herbert and you can see like my stuff and things of job done there energy grew when a new point Twitter and a lot of mountains as well as feel free if you have any questions during or off the talk the not happy to light rays in front of 1 else feel free to just send me an e-mail and equally if there's anything that you feel is worth interrupting the talk please feel free to do so during as well think it's and make some glaring omission whatever
right so things I think 100 does quite well and Acciona surveillance how many people in this room have ever submitted a pull request on you know how you in this universe multiple requesting get help to numbers I love all the people you're wonderful so what the
nice things with memory and which we just got from the virtue of Gearhart rather than any sort of narrative alone is that it's very very easy to contribute to her relative so you just make a pull request of project you had a file we run CI and then it's creating and looks good then someone will margin so as a result we have which is not bad for a project is going 7 years old I think we got over 4 thousand unique contributors not numbers is going up and up and people are almost on a daily basis will getting new people kind of their 1st foray into this of development is I wanna uses the repeats itself where I wanna slightly newer version that will provide an over at the moment so they can just basically gets the software finding URL bond version your OWL download it update the show on critical question will and then that would probably be merged hopefully it's more contentious in 24 hours or less so we like to think of ourselves as hopefully giving a reasonably noise very very easy way of countries and open source for people and then if you see it starts in mixing same names of again again then I start to try and push people the harder maybe say all well while you're in there and changing the version many condition cleanup when you could write test maybe you can run across some problem then becomes cost that and just generally trying to nudge people generally in 1 direction the so homba itself
is run day-to-day pretty much only by 6 people is only 6 people left can access to you while and actually use it to the repository is 2 or 3 others you on listed there kind of currently on leaves of absence and but we have no a formal hierarchy we don't have any 1 person who decides whether stuff gets include lot they just ends up being a combination of discussion and also the kind of relatively nice and soft principle of if you're the 1 willing to invest a lot of time and energy into doing the work your opinion counts a bit more than someone who just comes along and says you should do it this way by right so you're definitely
not revealed to me this but they say Our contribution model is around understand
the 6 people or the only people have actual commit access the repository so basically
everyone else goes and forks the repository and get makes the changes their creates a branch properly and then creates a pull request and then we can and those changes in 106 into the main repository
so an average pull request might look something like this we got like I submitted this progress myself you know I have direct access just because it makes it easier with some of the things that we do which I'll come upon where so it's the she cryptographic architecture I think a common water losses sons were just a new version bump closing some issues where people have requested this already it's see my committee there and then the Committee for courses referencing itself and then I close the poor question if we don't use the so that's only get hard like clicky merge request button because we like to have a lot of of history nicely just cherry-picked get commits Roslyn lots of squiggly merging lines Ira become gets so I have like feelings about we had things like merging and so this is kind of a relatively typical progress but often there will be no communication at all I'm trying to get a little with better about thanking people to be forced on people so it's not just like like you just merge my thing and then told me in way that's with it we have so when things go that wrong that's
something we can build upon in the last year in the last there is about a year and a half ago and maybe 2 years ago our current can situation it was the same would pull request but the problem was effectively we we have to just it was testicle request I read to download that package of more machine the change that they've made and I need to manually wrong the compilation of that so in the case of some partition of your building others and IQ even on a fairly fast machine that's gonna take 45 minutes so that became a bit of a barrier in the current contribution process that is a role and develop a have enough time for the machines fans to war away 45 minutes before they can come to check these things working with you want to so we Kickstart we raise the money and reports songs like physical hardware which is sitting in a data center and kindly donated to a by posted Internet and um and not the entire data center for although in very generous and so now we have is when you Singapore western you we will mixed up or bottom this supple request using color Jenkins in the back and I will then download that test on the 3 versions of our research we support which of the current version uh sex temple tenure 70 and the previous 2 mountain 1 Mavericks download it initially were base it is run compilation now we can run a few more things from compilation run tests and reinstall the reverse depends to to make sure that you not actively with 1 of them as well so the nice thing about this process now is it integrates nicely with get Hobbes kind of to use integration stuff and you get a nice green or nice red at the bottom of the build basically saying what went wrong so it if there was a bill that failed and you click through and it was red you might get something with a bit like this they this is saying this package why 3 we Bruce stole on Y 3 and it failed all on all platforms not and Mavericks you can click to see the logs and stuff like that you want to and the I thing we found with kind the contribution process beings are relatively simple ones used had CI into the mix of decency I working with feedback is nice because we might have a situation where all the maintenance sleep and you wake up and you find that someone is made a commits made a pull request 1st notice it failed it's listed on that that's a film again it's on that and then you wake up to a greenbelt which I can pretty much because I believe in the principle of false uh negatives of false positives it a green building the different scared like Interpol that's right away without any test which is great so
another thing that we're blessed with in homeland compared to why I like to think of as real packages in Linux land is we have minimal influence on actually breaking the system with Hungary you're installing universal w get for a newer version of CCA all or some will develop a utility were not installing the system C library so as a result we don't need to worry as much about accidentally breaking the user system because you know we installed a C library but then revision this package correctly whatever because Apple supplies a reasonable number of increasingly outdated open source libraries but the nice things about on the flip side is kind of her breezy costs there now you can get a debate the virtues of kind of her reverse backwards but an an
example would be like the Mac courts this is probably really all about package descriptor so this is some the dependencies that the Mac cost gets has so you need to have all this stuff installed and you're installing get rows her reversion there are actually any dependencies because everything that get needs is shipped by Procexp so instead of saying we're gonna mandate you install or special version of or sink or whatever then we just say well it it stops brought by the system then we have the sense that I generally the kind of sort of something from that as I mentioned before we do need to worry about booking system stuff because we to installing it but also generally get slightly faster stole times we get kind of more more integration of the system and generally a kind of world I would consider more Mackey with doing things because we try and hurt him as much as possible to what Apple's provide us with rather than doing lord stuff so we still will shepherd open-access outputs ourselves breast cells the unusual example in case and that's a situation which we all are war he's trying to push people toward using all 1 Robin the system on which the system will be deprecated and there's an old insecure version and bought most of the things we might provide duplicates of that system package but we try not to mandate and when users because it just makes things a little bit slower so another thing like a
personal peeve of mind something other than trying to push for uh quite heavily her is minimizing patches the not package managers in general I think sometimes get fairly mixed wrap from like upstream developers because when stuff breaks we have much to the on in this for option developers would stop breaks all the time people not guilty of should develop a and say this is broken it will come to Homer and say this is broken even when all of of the time there's box might be relating to just about any option package and nothing to do with the weights conditioned by us so generally the the reason all the time around impact on has been while if we have these issues will patch them and then you know we can continue this problem with that approach by found term is you end up with patches which you don't really know why they're there anymore but not really needed and you know they may be were needed for some older compiler version or library version whatever what because that's not the same intended to remove patches as there is to act and build breaking they just stay there forever so I
try I am trying to do in her room of interesting for a while to it my microphone is to put my mouth at all close to my mind again i which just speaking to i this right and so this is a I'm sad to say boilerplate message I got quite good writing boilerplate glasses just using little to local tax wrangler with her research I apologize if you have any interaction with me pull request like this but we are 95 % chance now it's just like an all to generate a response that I haven't type 3 characters into my keyboard and its spat others expanded text that the good version of that is that it makes me significantly more polite because when I'm answerable requests like 3 o'clock in the morning I can't sleep on the like l i did you read the manual and like so I've noticed that you've not quite red this so thank you so much yeah so me is far more polite than really but so this is some common blob I try and say 1 more now when Avril anyone submits any patch so please emitted the option developers again you would think that that would be relatively obvious but sadly again particular on by platforms like a sex which on as widely used they have I think the boss was example either anyone prosaically to blame for this but the bus or sex for about 4 years there was just this massive like thousand lines long running patch set which you need to be able to run the bus and they had been submitted the option developers but never Marge because no 1 it's kind of got involved with the back and forth process in trying to actually get that merged the 1st thing we tried there is pressure would you submit patches upstream because then at least we know they're like they're documented somewhere other than in our source code and then we try to add a link to the option patch so we can actually keep track of that and hopefully it upstream either say this page's needed anymore or this page break stuff or whatever then we can then pull things not and explanation of why the patch is needed again you'd be surprised how many conversations assaults was some says my particular esoteric use case I to apply this weird patch and you say actually like you calling it with wrong arguments or whatever like generally I have st relatively strong opinions about as package managers we should be trying to as much as we can to distribute the software that upstream give us and of upstream give us crap self where we should know just try and Patchett constantly to try make it gets but not really are problem at that point which brings us nicely onto the bad
and so but the most
common annoying thing we get sometimes is upstream so who would not have been accepting of my apologies for my Mac and they would probably hold rotten fruit to me and you get some people who work of so for a really really don't like Max they don't like Mac people they don't like clang they don't even like apples anymore the and the it's quite hard working out How as intersex packages you deal with that situation where this pieces of words not really work properly anymore we need to patch it and then upstream says I don't when your filthy page's and so what we been generally trying to do this depends on the popularity of the package of it's something really really popular if tomorrow there you know give you maintainers of w get decided they didn't want to maintain our sex patches anymore well probably there's enough people using the patch is going be well use the well tested and enough people want that we get that we see to suck it up where is it is some really obscure little program my temptation is nowadays it upstream Sabia was Boris X then we just killed a package and we don't ship anymore because again and they say I'm not really in the interests of homebrew effectively for working half the packages in this situation in order to provide a a Sec support because then we end up with a horrible and patches never in Christ
so the other relatively common problem is that upstream is active is inactive so I I go in post my soul to generate thing in the previous 1 and so was as well I have its adoption but get repository is not fight posterior CVS repository as a mean updated in 35 years and at this point you have a bit of a dilemma cause it's like well this but we we have notion laser method the option but realistically this is never going to end up in a release piece of software and again I try and apply the same principle where itself where is no longer maintained if it requires increasing number of patches to keep even functional at some point we need to say that's not packages software let's try and shots people onto something else or just let cry and if anyone has solutions i medicines before the bad boy and please in the question time if anyone has any really obvious solutions to these problems and bring up please let me know because I'm sure there are some but I right that the other 1 is nietzsche projects so as a downside of are relatively easy contribution model we at I don't imagine massive this regions like Debbie get this problem is much but we literally sometimes have people people saying hey here's this project them in and out In the last 2 hours like the commit history is 2 hours old and no 1 else has ever use the software it has no readme has no home page as no documentation has no help flag but I think you should add and homebrew and on we have like a thing in our documentation about saying you know please use the discussion when Semitic things we may not accept everything you submit um and invariably these things starting into like massive discussions about why I'm basically Hitler because I would include this person's package that there a 2 hours ago and who might say that they might be blogs there almost certainly as many bugs extensions so we have to kind of work out a balance on this stuff M. and bizarrely ends up happening with some fairly major factors as well like a recent at kerfuffle was about is a fork of no JS called i now and people got very very upset because it was a week before this pull request got merged and although this project is in nation it's not being widely used selling a widely used in production yet so I think the flip side of a contribution process where where can quite quick to turn things around is that sometimes you end up having un réseau expectations on you where you literally on holiday I'm getting abusive e-mails about why haven't you meiosis yet as why don't you have into that like I'm receiving this honor cafe all my father and so again I'm not sure on of of an obvious way of solving this problem of than just having to tell people to go way sometimes that and the last 1 I guess is money so this means you got really great talks today have hard about setting up Tropicana charitable organizations and stuff like that forms of projects and getting kind of donations and sponsorship and things that and I think we need to do that more that previously all ah money situation is just been we're anarchic star we bought the hardware and we have some money in a bank account in the UK which is kind of on the bridge named thankfully rather than mine and but unfortunately because this just a big pot of money and we don't have any regular money coming and stuff like are binary packages thing which is provided free by sourceforge at the moment the that's been a little unreliable so we we look alternatives and all cost money and all of them cost regular monthly outgoings and I'm nervous about signing is up to something where we have like a yeah 12 month 18 month runway before all of our binary vectors which breaks we don't have any money anymore so it's kind of tricky when all of us as maintainers do not want to kind of poor reminds the project but yet we have a really small number of people using it and again I'm sure every set up of a sensible way for people to be able to 10 8 then people probably words and this would be a solved problem but generally dealing with money is far more scared and in the software so I just try and mooch off free stuff whenever possible and onto the
ugly and that it is only really 1 thing in the other section but not in terms of stuff that we kind of struggle with on the project which is kind of abuse
it it's kind of bizarre I'm sure I'm far from the only person to discover this but when you run an open source project you tried all sorts of interesting people some very lovely people and some strange people at some so this strange people when the previous mention ones where I did include some project because it was like 2 hours old and so would follow me on Twitter for an entire year because they went back in with my e-mail logs to see when the following things out phobias with over an entire year just to wait for me to have a bad day and then go and sit and tweets by like 0 I'm having a bad day today and a half you deserve it your dick at its only allowed to work out and who is this person why why they say I mean obviously is the Internet's people so the status of all the time of and also my friends instance of new times it was like what wow I don't know you how where's your name come from so I when did distal detector journey and found out that it's just someone who's pull request I closed and then he followed me into the 4 year just to try and stick the be and when I'm having a bad day the thankfully I'm lucky a person that's bad you made a really good day for me because I was like this is kind of funny had the length to which people go to try noise but yet like this general like Twitter is 1 of these weird well I I love in many ways but then I'd disengagement almost all attempted open-source discussions with it because it and up owing integers people throwing names around and getting upset and that's just me em but it's my attitude is kind of being it stuffs important enough it will end up on the issue tracker or where it will end up on our mailing list and trying to sort of stick out of the bike share the this is why really have only works in this really terrible but is again I'm I'm open to solutions on this but it's surprising I think how much you can have lots of lovely comments from people and then someone making Hubble college to just for like you know a few hours or level can really really sappy motivation and what I tried to do with her is trying to protect um are maintainers from that we have a code of conduct the we try and force relatively strictly because my attitude is ultimately you pull request may be important I maybe gates but if it stops when the maintainers if you spend a lot more time working on homebrew from working on it because you been really d motivated to them then that's probably not worth the kind of loss to the project all of you waiting this particular fight and again we end up having some bizarre situation sometimes where again I'm sure this is a relatively common package manager problem where people say you know in the backdrop of Heartbleed there SSL the 3 ability where people come in CIS so progress the disabled as well as B 3 on of SSL and that's all very well and good but it and breaks Python and you say well it breaks by you know what should we do about this Mr. while that's not my problem you need to fix this yeah and so the 3 broken now and whatever so can a this balancing act of trying to do the right thing whilst having a life outside of just working on memory it's something I've firstly struggle with and yeah so hopefully this is giving you some sort of vague rambling overview of why thinker incumbent as well I think I don't do well and why I think can kind of be learned from her Henry could learn from all of other distributions I think and so I'd like to open up as anyone has any questions or thoughts or comments then they'll be lovely thank you the this is not we the so these are the people thank you what to the really mind you yeah and we do try that but that the sad reality is that the people yeah its could also and it's there like a second-class it's not there's an extra step involved or slight more characters in the commander doesn't show up in search or whatever like so yeah the great the the the you the well all the yeah of and the the the an yes so dies at an interesting segue yes in that the way the her reinstalls packages we In stole everything into a rather than a so every into like the user prefix or whatever we install everything in the use a local and then within that every package has a prefix and then we symlink things back so if you'd so w gets a version 1 . 0 0 it would be user local seller W. gets 1 . 0 0 and then those links with they get kind of went back so if you try so everything it would all In still nicely into their little prefixes I'm sure and then some things might if we don't have conflicts declared that should be there that something might break in that way but yet I haven't tried because my hard drive
cries when I think about it so have the the and you have because yet that that would be a nice idea I think erm in some ways I want to go more toward start like something I would like to try so the way like you're Calgary applications on 1st acts like a dog apt bundles and the way they work is if they have library dependencies they all ship all the library dependencies inside everything so you may have you know 20 30 versions of the same library new system but you can still do that any app bundle and deleted and it just doesn't care that you have all issue buckets so in some ways I would like to see us move a little bit more to that model where package mention becomes a bit more about the individual things you want to install and not managing the complex dependency trees and things of that because that's a the hard bit and be the that were always wrong so yet in some ways I would like to see and move for us more toward be able to just installed potentiality if you wanted thanks we yeah the the yeah we have a G. that's a really a question and so the the issue of how I've had with mirrors is trying to find the primary mirror so I Goal loads of people who little izations have signed up to become 2nd areas in which they would or sink stuff off the primary but the problem is finding a primary mirror which the some more providers hopefully for free with the band with constraints that we have and being prepared to be the primary mirror and rotation and stuff like that that kind of dying gets a little bit harder and then also the way that we annoyingly distribu or package descriptors are on Gerhard rather than on the binary package poly for security reasons so then that becomes a nightmare to try geolocation and things like that so get basically we consider them we're trying to work something out there but it's not quite there yet I the the of the this the the the that the yeah be granted but let's talk afterward the any other questions but yet so the the it that the yeah you end up with stuff being so far are dependency system in home brews like not very nice and that's a bit of an understatement it's from is a great project but it's 1 in which the initial implementation left of quite a bit to be desired and in the desire to not break things for users we are very very slowly trying to refactor dependency systems toward something saying so when that is finished which it will be at some point in the next 100 to 300 years and everything will be magic and rainbows which is I computer but until then yes like the art installation is noise nice is that so this 1 chemical brew leaves which tells you effectively at the end of each branch serve you install 1 packet schnitzel 10 dependencies it will tell you what the packages or the pulled in the depends so that can help with on installing staff the if something in there that you didn't install yourself and you can probably we remove it but it's not and isolation I realized the story no different in that we have on my top-flight because there could be a bus feeder schools uh I I like AC which is like a kind of graph on steroids thing for searching all over the place it's kids last 1 like it and you know what I like color deaf and color grant sigh color diff which shows me my debts but with color and I'll say like you might analysts another 3 things that more more software back is the main 1 that release line gets out of jail obviously sigh like of the newest version the on you the so 107 what we hearses binary packages that's what we no basically it's done on a kind of a case by case basis we're slowly trying to build up the number of stuff the number of things we have responded patches we don't have a sort of alter magic binary the while we we've got binary building stuff which is all quite magical but we don't have the facility to just say you build bypasses for everything and so Adam is based just on a case-by-case basis pretty much but we are trying to again my goal is to have binary edges for everything b as well and I think that's us with from some GOP so thank you very much for calling and thank you for questions and if
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Homebrew - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of OSX Packagin
Alternativer Titel Distributions - Homebrew The Good, Bad and Ugly of OSX Packagin
Serientitel FOSDEM 2015
Autor McQuaid, Mike
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung 2.0 Belgien:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen.
DOI 10.5446/34344
Herausgeber FOSDEM VZW
Erscheinungsjahr 2016
Sprache Englisch
Produktionsjahr 2015

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