How radical are Open Access and the Digital Humanities?

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How radical are Open Access and the Digital Humanities?
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What is a critical idea of "open" and what might radical digital humanities be? In memoriam Aaron Schwartz. Digitization has opened the ivory tower of academic publishing and research to everyone - by now Open Access and Open Data are acknowledge by the EU while Digital Humanities have become a buzzword to win a research funding. So far the struggle has been easy: we considered "open" and "digital" as good, while "closed" was bad. Now things are getting complicated. Not only that several commercial publishers have started successful Open Access journals. The digitization of the Humanities seem to push our universities according to neoliberal demands: pragmatic and project oriented, not critical and independent. What critical potential has digitization to offer?
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that and go to a new it was work as an center of portions of it and Center for Internet and Society in condition bungalow done David Barry associate professor fruit digital media and Institute for party wouldn't quit 2 of his and shove it would university it's wants the way this 1 2 1 let's not just push Mun listen assume that up by the distance to to which few people you teach went in for much she wants himself so we this into to a tree the position of and there would when you have to keep the emotion of the components of the acid is the in under targets Auden published this put things on wednesday so that in the past highland thank you very much for the introduction and technique
people over that he may be and like not the audience of it because added very getting we can see them at the access that we get if you are bored or if you have a question or anything and I think there is in general a bit better for the introduction and we're elected blinded by the lights movement and I'm very happy that so many of you came over here to discuss Open Access and Digital Humanities and I have to say it since a half year I am and having a team that were found a university and about hybrid publishing that looks into open access and how open its chest changes the publishing sphere and the academic communication in general now the interesting thing is I don't know some of you might know my background is newspaper journalism and have them for very long time we had this discussion should we go digital isn't bad newspapers die and in the interesting thing is in a well in the academic sphere you don't have this discussion of the UK has clearly decided that research that is funded should be published open access the EU is about to follow a with the Horizon 2020 program to push everyone into open access and and we've seen the landscape changed a lot in the couple last couple of years or even months I would say and the interesting thing for me is some synsets started and looking into open access but my own opinion is constantly transforming so this is 1 question that we have here today now when I started we are always in the beginning we all considered open and digital as the new things about close was bad but now I think things seem to be a little bit more complicated and I also want to say that I would like to have dedicated panel a little bit to our into parts but the digital community has talked a lot about his dad and he died in January 11th this year and committed suicide and over his head was this work of amateurs in form of lost you that threatened him with thousands of years in prison and a 1 million dollar fine I am and what he did was he downloaded millions
of documents from just started thinking of pronounces as a not-for-profit company that provides searchable digitized copies for academic journals I am so I think this is a good moment to mention that and that what she was laughter is not forgotten and will continue and with me I'm next to you next to me
and that we have canadians Bushman David Berry and measurements happened I would like to ask me of the 1st
question each of us will talk a little bit and to have we try to take you a long and that what is open says what is digital humanities but at the same time trying to go and which the discussion of the and if you want to comment please raise your arms and so what we are going to discuss and before I do that the work of a Tunisian Chantalle again has questions What is open access and has been co-opted by capitalistic interests what other digital humanities and do they represent the creed of capitalist interests into the academy and how can we return to the
radicalism of the early movements we shall have the idea of open we talked a lot about it and it turns out that the final University and you bring examples from Indiana 10 please can you take everybody along what could be the idea of you and you I so I need to make the quantification that everything that he comes from the core and the core India but but you know you have the means to be of thinking between these could be between the risk of the word I also feel free to translate it into your context and see what comes out of place of what is mostly this the a change Shattuck T I don't open it's because they are the 1st of the excited that things should become open because things should be fully because we live in a free world there was a very allelization that thing that easy laid out and let this think it's too but they do that kind of openness which might be interesting to open up ideas on of about mean and the 1st is the notion of open beta I'm I'm I'm most sure that everybody in this room with these with mean with different variations that open data is a good place that because we have an idea that the that is the closest and it needs to be opened up and that something beyond common shared between us I think 1 of the things presumptions to that is that the data is not match the have this very clear understanding that the days of man made human being human needs would the fabrication this then is distributed stored and accessed by and so on and so forth by different people and that the little is 1 access to that information going this is the head of the other and resumption but that it is often the the will and the fringes of the societies to start looking at these in which you get a structured it right now we have this incredibly document going Vision 2020 the only thing that make 2020 India needs to become a smart the and smart works out for some simpler monitor accounted with responsibility and transparent it's beautiful acronyms work trade and so in Dallas Nicholas might still make thousand 20 and 1 of the movies they has to do this is by making use of the destinies of inability to farmers who were committing suicide in the country entity effect that in get noun is according to the age of the environment and the and 1 of the key problems recognized by digital humanities and new kinds of data is that farmers are not empowered in the information each farmers do not have access to state resources because they don't know how to navigate information ecologies and farmers and at the beginning this because we need more data for this then you make that it was with the argument is the actual data should be open it should be made available to the pharmacy at any given point of time and so you have a massive billion-dollar projects the test set of it but you know a lot of different collaborators including the driver clears and so on so and I don't know if you've been following the debates that have been happening in India recently but the CEO of honestly of recently suggested that what is not a fundamental right and so it can be database and what insulin which should interfere with it thankfully the United Nations interfered with it and said what is a fundamental right and so what should be an open commodities yeah and we only need information is really a suggesting that many details of fundamentally and indeed there is something that should be you talked about in terms of openness and then open this kind of considerably different forms of concept and open access an open knowledge in open formats and hardware and software that on the part of questions might proposition to the enthusiasts of openness is likely to be slightly questions about what I'm calling the politics of the United that is the politics of it suggests that everything open is necessary the good you need to yeah and so we should definitely open up everything that again and so only only partially the might have to do is to but it's a list of word leader begin the open Data you pick the people and start thinking about what would open deeply anything to proposition because the minute you talk about open deeply you will immediately start thinking of questions there are to is and security and safety and dignity and life and so on and so forth I think the separation between the time the with has forced us to believe that everything open is good but it is the fact that openness needs to be treated with caution that politics of the benign that operates around the damage to disappear simply because we need to start thinking about questions of accountability limitations and usability of the term in the docket would open data because we live in data reality voters the data not just extraction of some sort that is about people and that may be even set of about open data in digital humanities we need to start thinking and fetishizing listening this idea of information in the data and start thinking about opening the destination and what are the social and political implications which happened because the open of certain kinds of datasets which can sometimes with be in conditions of until implicating in
context that you make and so stop here it is hoped that maybe the company disputed video and I can tell you more these you can thank you very much I think I have your soldier equation between open data and open people ready made it very clear to you that there's a sort of a problem out there and we are interested in having Cornelius you um you're research goes about academic blocks said in the past and and signed and have them a communication changes have like to ask the question is there a new public out there for the humanities and what have you found having the this from serve as scholarly blogging and the uptake generally of social media in the academy or among scientists and scholars is something that has generally been very lacking a very slow in terms of quantitative adoption so there and there hasn't been a widespread interest in using blogs and social media to communicate and then you're to the public for the internally inside of disciplines beyond a certain pockets of adoption that you have for example in the digital humanities and that as a so a mass movement that hasn't really been a broad embrace of social media to talk about scholarly issues to reach out to the public character individuals to do this but the majority of researchers are not really on very engaged in this and I think the reason is and this is as think a discussion that will you keep having when we're talking about Open Access and Digital Humanities we sort of have to disentangle the brands from from the the actual communities of practitioners of people engaging were identifying with the use of these notions so I think something like digital humanities to people I mean who have perhaps studied at Shenaniganz subject sounds really sort of 0 it's digital and humanities that sounds really use of core interesting but if you look at them and that's not to say that actually digital humanists and you call interesting things and that's also course of a matter of perspective but and the actual communities some of the actual communities of digital humanists that I've that who identify identified with the brand actually have fairly traditional objects of research that were interested in me and very traditional cultural artifacts historical artifacts and studying those through digital representations or through digital media but that means if you're us a historical linguists studying I don't know Egyptian script or something like that and you use computational tools to do this analysis but you're not really you know do not do not necessarily likely to be at a conference like this and not necessarily so that there's a discrepancy at least in my experience sometimes between what we associate with these terms but perhaps as as and I when there as outsiders but have people were not necessarily engaged in these movements are expectations words what digital humanities could look like and the actual what people actually do work or doing these kinds of things but this is this is very very similar and even bring this makes bad but and referring back for a 2nd to to open access also and defining on my expressed with open access has always been that there is a discrepancy between what people associated with it just somebody on the street what you think about open access and they have a very broad notion of openness in relation to Open Access but if you go to an open access Conference where there's library and information science people library people and publishers and maybe people from the political and arena and it's a very technical issue it's something that's very good to have certain legal of qualities attached to it so there's a very specific notion of openness not I was at a at an open-access conference once and there was a person I'm representing of a large scholarly society and she was asked what do you think about open access and do you does your large sum scholarly society engage in open access and this was in the early 2 thousands when when the whole thing was not quite as as a widely discussed and and she was sort of not an expert necessarily and she was on this panel and responded to this question by saying yes we are a society and we do open access when people ask us and for the time of the articles from the journals that we publish we send them to people so we're going open access rights but that's not open access in the in the sense of of what you it has in mind what what other policy have in mind that so yeah I'm I'm saying the labels and differ very much and uh and uh the expectation that that because it's possible to use lots of new social media this is something that more and some be embraced by scholars and that's that's not been my experience because it doesn't necessarily fit into some into established patterns of doing things into and while some of that is is in the in the question raised before the the question of up what the expectations are towards toward scholars in general in relation to 2 of the public is is it the job of scholars necessarily to reach out to the public with with what they do and I think there's some people who don't necessarily have that have that people yeah that that's an important point maybe just to take everybody if you know I an open-access adequately
explain it is that that you research that is has a national funding for an hour and government funding is published and open accessible and not in a dual where you have to subscribe to it now thing in the past was that I with certain academic journals and a subscription was really horrible high and the human universities were forced to pay twice that pay once for all of the researcher and that had the weights for the researcher and then actually research that is produced in the universities that government funding because universities are Government funded still and that's the good thing I this research that is produced is then published in with commercial publishers that then have asked the libraries of the universities for subscription fees so that universities have to pay twice they paid a wage and then they have to buy in the research that actually produced in their own universities for a lot of times and of course in the digital age this all started to disrupt the whole apartment and at the moment people are talking about 2 different models of open-access is gold this green and there's also view and other colors around these are the most discuss once and goal is that it that it is accessible and it's
published land that everybody can download it and green is that you can put it in your own personal repository and I think I can always go then for the details but just to give you a r rough idea and with this says something interesting happened that the public really change them and what communities was just talking about I open access at the US for example just embraced it it is in general really embraced by most governments by now and that they uh mn in America it's very interesting because there's a very strong force behind it I think it's good we the people or something it is taxpayers that say we pay for the research and we want to have accessible the research and this is a bit crucial if you are a scientist you know I don't know how many scientists are among us if you an academic or scientists if you i humanities scholar you know that we told nerd language we talk to each other we drop names nobody else can understand and that's a big problem now that comes up a fall as in academia now with open access that comes a little bit the thinking that everybody should understand what you are talking about and this is a problem I think we will get back to later the poor who would like to give David had a chance to explain uh to us and there is not only open-access there's at the moment a big push and that there is some gap happening in the universities with the digitalization it's not only publishing and 1 part of the university that was a waste reflective all critical about what's happening in our society was the humanities and we have have digital humanities 20 years already mentioned it and or what interests me is David is an expert on it he published a book holding understanding Digital Humanities very good introduction reviews interested I could turn recommended and can you explain what other digital humanities and why does this question of radicalism comes up there so strongly so 1st we'll have to apologize to digital humanists I have to give quite a a broad brush of overview of what the digital humanities having 1st and the 1st thing I think we can cite in a very outlined sense the 2 humanities the application of computational principles in computational methods to what has been you know traditionally thought of as a very scholarly close reading textual work in the main so the digital humanities have been very much about embracing these kinds of digital methods digital solutions digital technologies more generally in order to kind of raise new research questions check and you know critique all the research positions and so on and so forth so but within the digital humanities the new field typically called it a field that is itself quite contested but the data you humanity itself is a very contested area uh there's a lot of discussion uh well worth visiting some of the research blocks of some of the participants to see how in some sense of the you develop a very interesting to watch how different players is a kind of Anglo-American to humanities something there's a degree in American history man is more European Digital Humanities it's interesting to see how the definition is being created online so it's it's an interesting moment of uh Field formation in many ways so the kinds of things that the digital humanities have a tradition of involved in a mean it it's not as new as it scenes of the term data humanities that date to something like 2 thousand along the principles of using some kind of computation and go back to the 19 forties and this kind of play that particularly universities in the sense of the kind of service technical capacity to have Department of Computing support essentially to humor scholars who wants to use a computer techniques and computational methods this was christened the mantis computing and was thought to somehow a bit old fashioned and send a like a service department so there's a lot of discussion in the year 2 thousand about know how to make refreshed sound relevant exact and the tentative manage kind of came to the fore and this is interesting in itself a white Digital Humanities and not computational humanities for example because it's in the social sciences for example there has been a perturbed computation pleasure of letters very interesting so early consistencies tended to focus very much upon a digitization there's lots of all kinds of texts lots of imagery was placed online there's a lot of talk about creating not comprehensive or cards but exhausted all cards right because the digital allowed to have everything and there's a big push toward kind of giant databases and archives wasn't much thought about what can be done with them it was no self-evident that digitized of cool and a good example of this is the new to project at the University of Sussex they're gonna amazing archive of Isaac Newton's work and it is literally comprehensive and exhaustive in in ways that are think really interesting 2nd unaware of these events that focus on born digital content so relevant physical uh things being you know translated into the digital realm we have a lot of digital archives and all the new digital objects then became a kind of sight of interest and I think the more recent term is really Towards a notion of the media and the question of the digital itself and how the digital shapes you know that the humanities themselves and so some of the
discussions that go on vintage to humanities and composition it within this panel really got them again this is a simplification money pulling out strands that open access is again something that continues to be contested within the humanities and the digital itself thing right these questions of interest wise polyethene because of the Libertarian push tools information these 3 so I think
that's part of that that line each there but there also democratic questions raised by the 2nd this is kind of early adopter digital technology strand is a very strong tank insist to that kind of I suppose what Anthony Borisov Michael solutions and but this notion that the mean of the digital for the digital in the digital site is a good thing you could not necessary critically considered is an interesting discussion and in terms of you know close readings very small focuses so for example you know looking at a novel or looking at a set of novels by 5 and the digit managers allows for example the possibility of studying 45 million novels and you can imagine that sense scale really goes crazy interesting questions and problematic for what the humanities traditionally off last day finish on the contact price that have been associated parameter to be monitored and that's the moles less lack right which is an interesting tile read is in many ways it talks about less theory less consideration of their mold programming coding will make a building things and this again is very interesting because it kind of reflects on the kinds of activities that digital humanists have got involved in that that a lot of steps of programming code literacy and open because I think about framing of the discussion but all leave that but the the 2 that I'm
thinking you I went and I would like to explain quickly how I think and because might be the abstract how open access and humanities then cross because what we see
here is have in open access I mean me it's not just open access but in general since we have a live in the digital we publish things sooner faster and and many more things and Weber does research knows of that this also means you have to be more things and have to know more about things and now we might need in the future tools like that that hold at the moment in the digital humanities to actually work with a lot of texts and because what we can say is that I want colleague of mine once called a that that we start to live in an age where science as a stream and is the case actually I'm we talked this morning about it that by now i think every journal article is cited is quoted for about 4 years and not after and after 4 years it's sort of a book and and this is quite something inches that it's in the back of the open-access it's not just that it is a movement to to speed up of science that is all connected to each other and the interesting thing is that by now but I think we have like I'm personally and still undecided I think open access is a good thing and the funny University we are about to publisher to to study university project University Press that will be open access the Centre for Digital Cultures press and and I think it allows a lot of things but also see that there a downturn and you just make some notes of open-access from my soul and remind you that connection and think it in you on iris is the news that a and because I don't think think we agree on what openness of open access might possibly mean this is possibly a good thing because this symptomatic of how the intention seems to of the of simply because of that I do have a community and qualifications and so on a lot of merit has been read you less communities are doing on the ground activism on questions of openness in India and USA and for us that open access this was never about academic publishing and I read I would be set up for example in India the of where of the 1st movement techniques that aid to information possible within a country like India voiced the principles of openness of then you may be looking at more more concerns openness and quantitative rather than openings and the so of course the academia it is the the factor knowledge industry that we have to decide where the inside of that the most visible but it would be but that's a mistake to close it down only to speaking about academia and I think it if it is exactly the kind of separation they want to hint at that oftentimes we're beginning to be near the city down and talk about open access debates be done them into debates have the time information and before the lake Adams was dying because the fight and certain kinds of patterns you forget the life off people in India would not get access to resources which are altered by the Steve which are funded by the public resources but they're not made available because their diets with 1 of the sponsors of this particular event and so that data is completely integrated hardware and software it's not going to be using the available and for me that the victim of openness has to be kind of placed back into the loop geology rather than merely talking about research publications in books and how you make it available because they like it or not is it could indeed the world seems to survive in this without a research academic publications in books but that is only just because it's we don't actually more important to the practices of people and so I would I would like to not not to dismiss any of the openness initiatives German bond oftentimes the union of new kinds and forms of publishing but most of them have not been distribution between how the trend with arbitrary reality because the every the implications on so the that the change and expected vs and that's something that you want to hold on to any maybe have have shown that expect that explain that again so what if you say open access in the western world obviously is very much that academics so where would you actually have different which is saying is datasets is set at all I think the information encoded in the dining of 1 of the cases that we have been fighting in India over the last 2 years has been this the peculiar thing there but if you don't know this we will continue to get it out of the window to begin of this means that right we do have a lot of intellectual infrastructure universities a candidate set of since the 1 of the very little access to textbooks take the the textbooks which need be needed to be taught in classrooms saying university that is a photocopying shot which prepare something which is called cost states they take up on the dates which of his having a particular and therefore decoding the sticks and immediate availability places to students who would erase it cannot afford to buy the states do not have digital access and not to go to school without of textbooks and engaged 2011 the outlets Oxford University Press and Cambridge University Press up school this 1 particular tiny for decoding shot which meets the living of about 500 use the mind of the sum of 1 . 2 million euros was you any copyright infringement right and you anywhere basically trying to revive it a little over ownership of this particular information and data now of course this is an open this problem it is also the such but the implications are much larger because if the sky is actually goes to and if this way and this usually for developing shot the case US in England phase in amount of privatization of education in India that anybody was patents cannot afford to buy the textbook skin you along with certain schools the so this definition between the 2 we sometimes what what kind of quality and safety Enabling to bring people back into open access to be thank you Cornelius is there is there is there a conscience it with as scientists and academics have about this from other they living out
we live in an ivory tower of
that's a very complicated across Europe there are a lot of different stances on this obviously and there are a lot of academics are very engaged with this question of how accessible and their research is and how accessible information from scholarly research scientific research is in general but in my experience is that enough so that the response of that that I made earlier so this that connects I think to 1 mission was saying in the sense that the narrower definition of open access just applying to scholarly publishing and that is quite narrow but that has a lot of the complexity of units in and by itself so when we talk about openness in the way that nation was talking about it I think that's very important but I also don't really know where to start it's a very common that's a very complex issue to me maybe because the most used to the study of openness in this very broad sense of and what is the societal impact of closing down access to information and other content views I very much agree with you and and there's also a notion that I've heard from a lot of and scientists who say well open access as applied to my research who really cares because I don't think the way people read any of my stuff anyway and it would be very difficult for them to to understand the work with the results of my research on so that's that's and that's something that sort of under debate and there was a focus for just a 2nd I want to do that and 1 open access publishing and and talking about open access to scholarly publications back in and by itself is a very complex landscape so I mean a lot of the time when we talk about open access publishing and power of publication should be more open we're talking about large publishers there's consortium of basically for very powerful very large scale Science technology matters medicine publishers who controlled of fastest share of of the publishing market in fields where the subscription fees for scholarly journals are extremely high and those generally technical medicine or hard science fields not lot the humanities because in the humanities publishing by comparison is extremely cheap by Pearson these fields so these publishers make extremely high had extremely high profit margins have enjoyed extremely high profit margins in the past they make you an extreme lot of money and they make their money from university libraries which are publicly funded and on right uh and dysfunctional situation has emerged from the libraries pay for the publication which the scientists demand but the scientists are unaware of the cost of these publications because while they're published in these journals they don't pay for them themselves they do the peer review for free they submit their articles for free to the journals the journals sold back to the library of talking about the the the public pays twice and this has gone on for a long time and cost the taxpayers huge volumes of money it's made these for some the major publishers and some not so major ones very rich extremely rich and I think that the margins tougher margins in scholarly publishing are the highest margins the entire medium business in terms of profitability and and and uh so um but just because stated uneven picture so if we now turn our attention to small-scale humanities and or university presses which published books about English literature that obviously those are not making billions of dollars in not global businesses and so forth that's and are different publishing landscape so talking about open access model Apple laterally in applying that all fields disciplines national contexts etc. and this is a very sort of on on fear of thing to do it unfair because then very often these small presses come under attack because people go to the same you're not being open and you're not you're not promoting promoting openness enough when really their profit margins may be very small so they produce actual physical books rather than just electronic our articles which is the norm in the science and knowledge in medicine areas and so they're they're very in a very different situation and they struggle but some of them at with and having to digitize all of the products and and in some cases also haven't and made available on the publications openly and because somebody has to pay in the and and that's that perhaps my my uh sort of argument that I wanted knowledge into the into the discussion when we talk about open access in this restricted context of academic publishing the question is who carries the the cost and in what form and what and of the publication process because the successful models of government boring everybody out of their minds right now with us and the the successful models in open access publishing which seem to work where things are open gold our road access open are those where the author page at the beginning of the publication process so somebody always pays and stand there haven't been any I can involved very strongly actually and 1 open access publishing firm platform that didn't actually have any real business model rather than we put things out there but it doesn't work because we have nobody we had nobody who we could pay to do the actual technical labor run the actual infrastructure mean virtually nobody be parceled out some resources yup but it's very difficult that's a very important point we have here and but that's always forgotten or a lot of times forgotten in the open access guru movement is that anything that OK the researcher wrote the book and now it's open access we don't need any money you know that you can just published in the book so that there and now I'm with our lab that uh hybrid publishing up at the lifespan of the research that of it and it's actually not true and at the beginning you think those all the processing fees that usually about 6 thousand to 10 thousand EUR are ridiculous but actually they are not and to produce a quality that has to be 1 or 2 lectures editorial processes we needed clearing of rights if you want to print some pictures I do you need somebody to set the text in a nice readable way he needed technical person that make sure they get published on the different digital platform performance by now publishing becomes really confusing of was you can just publishing PDF but you know that we ought to into reborn tablets and so on so on so on so how to do this in a professional way or enough quality way that is an equivalent to a book that needs actually a lot of work and what I find with digitalization is that this sort of labor a lot of time gets forgotten and open access is doesn't mean that you can publish a book for free I think this is a problem now David you once wrote to em as sort of a a sarcastic piece about an open access movement have and you have a point there and I would like to focus on now which is in the beginning we will talking with Cornelius mentioned it as you mentioned the case in India and I mentioned that come with education people make real money and they make a lot of money and and we didn't like that so when the open-access movement came along with that way that's a great way out of that we get our education back now and he wrote a piece that explains a little bit why this is not the
case that can you maybe elaborate on that so if your the parodies called the Swansea Declaration on Open
entertainment and an essential role is trying to do is to draw attention to who is it that's pushing so forcefully for open-access particularly educational context and companies like Google Microsoft act for the usual suspects and these people are not pushing on and of course this for you know very good uh public mind dates a democratic reasons as well but the the dollar's generally come from these big corporations and they not doing it added the goodness of their hearts of course they see a potential business model and that this is not the radiation the putting context of a speech some testimony given by Alan Greenspan to Congress in 1971 where that's about the future of the American economy he said well you know information and data for the oil of the 21st century right all these organizations that generates data particularly governmental organizations but also educational if that will freely available than other companies could pick it up repackaging and selling so there's a whole political economy of related to this open access question of course you know we should simplified you know the open-access to divide as Cornelius said in different national contexts it's playing out in different white is very important to understand but I think we must understand that you know it isn't just holy you know of moral good right there are political economic forces behind it as well I we think intensive yeah the educational industry with in the UK for example the turn toward very high fees education is that a lot of talk about how open education free diet free information can sort of ability to right away the universe is I think very naive I think highlighted the happened while you will have get maybe you know 2 classes of a student those that can afford to go to the real universities and those that cannot and this raises very interesting questions about you know what is it that our universe is a form of what is it that the universe is supposed to take because of course certain kinds of practices and here I'm thinking particularly of those kind of critical citizen minding that practice is very misleading measure the alignment of the humanities GeneraI rely on very close interaction with the students right back and interesting gets lost in these massive and open a course systems that called nukes instantly good think this you
can implement that did you should look at if you were applied to we have questions out there that's yet there's some work that i've you on thank yeah and 1 question on the the whole discussion about open access not a bit of all maybe because of the 1st thing you said that the technical discussions and it really is and but the main problem isn't on the accessibility of the the science papers In my opinion the main problem is of other things like copyright in the scientific texts because you of you right book and this book is of some for 70 years under the banner of copyright and you can't happen it but that really like you maybe 1 and of so I think that the 2 main problems so if you make the technical the patterns so you got to love years of security on and for a book it's by 17 but yeah for so and I think what
I had in mind was that affect the the difference between the the technocratic or work of the formalistic stuff so both the legal and the technical and a few other aspects which are also those and practical issues that need to be fixed which or in some cases very difficult to fix but still things that need to be fixed and versus the wider if you may philosophical or or of anything debate about openness and access to information that we have in relation to a richer and poorer countries that we have in relation to Richard for researchers of students inside of countries so we have all the use of a very of the major questions of equality and inequality raised in relation to the whole opening X Open anything of discussion that's going on there so much in Open Education Open Data Open Access Open University there's a blooming of terms that have something to do with openness and this of suggest to us that everything's become becoming more more equal and more of somehow but of course we realize that that's not the case and I'm poster presentations and raise this 1 example of open data practices in India where people make huge profit margins of of of the worlds of buying and selling real estate I think it was in that case and that certain classes of problems of the privileged by using digital platforms that give you information about real estate prices when the majority of the population of them any access to these kinds of so but what you're saying about copyright issues generally and copyright issues in relation to scholarly publishing and that's that that's a big issue as well but that it's a technical issue to the extent the question is are the policy makers and what is their stance on it what about academic authors what is their stance on it and but you know that seems to me to be an issue that's been under debate for a long time and were change has happened and is happening but and historically the model of a disseminating scholarly information in the way that it's been done up to now that was a good model at some point because of the fact that dissemination work differently if it's probably not the best model anymore it's probably not in the interests of the public that mean that uh scholarly research is not disseminated more broadly because of the way that it's practically done but I see that as something that's soluble that's the short answer is yes and the prepare problems that you raise exist but I don't think that's gonna stay the same for a very long time there's already the push for making stuff that's directly funded through 3rd the 3rd party money to make that more immediately accessible there's more more contractual things that as an author as a scholarly offered by contribute something if I receive certain types of funding I have to make it available so there's going to be more push from policymakers for this and then not problems than it solved at some point in the near future sort of long and so a
sink to the issue of copyrightable is interest on important but there's no simple
causality here is no 1 simple problematic we here is how we took meticulous about open access because as an entire constellation around open access and copyright is 1 of those and that is related again I think to a political economy right copyright generates income generates rich people and profits as needed to find the academic publishers and German industry they have property rights 38 % which is very very high right as highest you this is crazy and no surprise that is so high academic write papers free essentially then they pass over their copyrights then academics to the free labor of peer reviewing it and then academics get libraries to subscribe rights so it's an amazing model for generating huge you know factors of profit I don't think necessarily that just reducing copyright will solve this issue of open access tool and of course you know we can look at for example a very laudable and solutions suggested for example by the phrase commons and by the free software movement where you can use different licensing systems and to kind of open up this material and also with you know is related to copyright and probably won't have much time to diverge from a kind of sign the whole question of digital rights management as well I think it's hugely important 1 and if we think about our existing practices in relation to texts now we download them these companies like Amazon can just delete them from our uh Kindles that mission I think this whole constellation the usual which
make incentive the tree from your knowledge Foundation and I and I am unhappy you raise that point mission and that we should be naive by putting an open sticker on you have access to scientific publications or to data or whatever and think that this will kind of save the world the yes it's obviously that much more political question how we as a society organize access to water infrastructure and education them but but being an Open Data evangelists myself I I would like to ask you the question how can the that prevents that's what what happened to the open access movement was all these watered down version of golden open-access what happened to the other movements that that they're trying to push of yeah Open Data or Open Education and of struggle submit thank you and think you I expect innovative belief anything but of course we don't
have the answer we had the ions that we wouldn't be sitting here and management I but that actually think that would have also become from you and your question is do not again use open data to data and information state and when it's time to get it you think the differences in the constellation of things which have gone right so the axes that we have been kind of dealing with questions axis off ontology authorship and authenticity you that the things that the embedded in the very definition of what can be opened up so if someone in some points in history or in some point in the life of the that it is possible to open up authorship like the median for example that he was dismantling the entire history of the structure of this thing that author who has ownership which can be transferred from from 1 person to the other right up as like if you if you are interested more in this my friend and colleague in Bangalore Lorentzian has this incredible essay on a brief history of the Internet in the fighting in the 14th century the looks at the construction of source so the father of modern English poetry and what the construction of authorship and I want she was consider the necessity to be actively eject would think of such thing and the 2nd question and I think this is incredibly useful for all of us was beaten classrooms questions of authenticity that is based change idea that knowledge that introduces individual scholars and what actually within beginning so that it doesn't seem to water or today so many of the natural resources but it can be dying down to me data will question of digitally application and 1 of the concerns of digital rights management is actually on the question about the community leakage and nobody making money out of it so to speak but so the questions of the presence of a came the beginning and of open that particular debate around and that completely dismantle the existing structures of citations of light shift of who was going to be the vanguard of knowledge and so on and so forth how and is the question of authority I mean let's not try to formalize this into thinking that just because of now everybody's in English in some form with the other and everybody has the internet yeah on doing the components of the data in the form it is the same high cost his argument that was made in the 19 nineties about the Metropolitan Museum of Art York that 90 % of the beam does that isn't in the museum vitamin and 90 per cent of the subject of speeding vitamin right and and if you look at the beginning of each that the same day now the reason is you with it is you it that time to use the notion of for to behind says of to libraries education in emerging economies because that's where the new students are going to be used as a kind of getting really sinister feeling about how important when it is maybe we should just lose everything down from within the university yet of a lot of and not not not to be facetious but the idea that for us that the things the handling of the on the 2 D just ontology the city and authorship in trying to kind of look at what I want you to what is something looking at any easier sometimes coming from countries like India there there is a lot of community based knowledge which is not subject to these kinds of structures that it's highly possible even now from the video when European to willing to India and find out things which belong to the school that my grandmother sets so and the University of is no and that these kinds of data sets which out of it it will be to make new ideas about the colonies in ecosystems which because candidates it's in the yeah hi I'm I said and topology and I love my department but it's very small and I guess they discovered the Internet 2 years ago of is there at the recipes right this to push so the Department more to the openness direction for students or young PhD's yeah and I'll try get more well the push rays coming from the research councils I think and the European Union so universities flow of slow-moving creatures in so it's very easy to get very annoyed by investors I think 1st of all my you it by your own actions but how you choose to publish what you publish is a very good way of now performed on a each evolve in terms of these issues and but don't think that as a separate things open access in and of itself is necessary enough I think we also need to critique these concepts and and provide the critical concepts for thinking about the issues raised and but some departments have found 1 way of moving forward on this is to have a resolution in the department and you my would suggest that to your department head the so we have 2 more questions but only 4 high 4 minutes left so if you would pose the question what it really tricky OK very quickly as far as I understood from the discussion of what publishers did was a selecting producing and distributing the knowledge and that's something that's reorganized now and that we can make doing another way and route but the problem of faces also that and if you want to get a job at it's more important than it as a scholar in the humanities and a book that nobody reads that this published at the repeated to publishers way more important than 1000 block articles on the book work In my question would be what other approaches were what do you think about them how can we can of devalued this reputation economy pose a very short and the most honest answer from my experience is you can't you really say that and I am I on this might not come and stay the same for ever but uh I don't see you with uptake of of Mars uh forever I don't see them as fulfilling the same functions as traditional publishing that's just not happening those people were successful using lots as a scholar are using it to suffer from using it to point to the publications using it for all sorts of things so I don't see the the function and for for scholarly reputation of these traditional format's going away but that I have to say and publishers evolving fast and then they already like even all those really important reputational publishers have open access available if you pay and although processing the there was another question is the but it's kind of commander of CommOnt connected to that of from the perspective from the perspective of a young researcher I really like to publish there are alternatives chose but it's the as you said it's a problem of the reputation when I like don't publish that is listed in Thomson Reuters Science Citation Index I won't be recognized by my colleagues and I won't be like a valid evaluated for a job and so the problem here lies within academia itself but the the way it evaluates scholars which were very quickly very practical solution to that is to be published in your high profile international journal and then put a preprint on which such that you get the best of both worlds since the things you very much for being here I think where I'm leaving it yeah hope I got a little sense how confusing and how important at the same time open access is and the digitization of our education and that yeah please continue to engage at the if you
if you if you if you if you