Networked Consent: Dreaming and Desire in the 21st Century

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Networked Consent: Dreaming and Desire in the 21st Century
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Changes in communications technology allow us to think in new ways about consent, desire and the nature of power. There are important parallels between the backlash against rape culture and innovations in digital politics. What does that mean for the consent of the governed?
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I'm happy to introduce Laura pennies on and
I learning is a journalist writer and activist from London and she will talk about so you job called networked consent and it will be about how changes in communication technology allows us to think differently about consensus and desire and the nature of power to looking forward to that I uh I think it is so I think this is funny right so and I wanted to stop and saying it's a really
great honor to be here and I loved and apple and other last year's speaking here a great conference so far from to apologize it has and origin of this talk that came about because a yet he's sitting in the front row as a medium of saying away you have applied for a public yet I happened to be in Berlin with SIMD digital theory people at the time and there have been the middle of an
intense conversation about power and
desire and the end of the world in the heat death of the universe and what we would like to do about it and I and that was done and I found that I submitted talking been accepted and so I've based this talk on that and so I have that will be interesting it's a little bit of a tiny bit what I would call theory 1 with the greatest possible respect but I believe very much in Nam trying to explain things in words that um what everybody can understand I'm I'm I'm not such as at I'm I'm keen on theory in in in a domotic sent so this is and this is an atoll which attempts to blend those 2 things that I am Brenda talked about what consent means what the network does and how the notion of the network changes our ideas about power and desire and what it means to have an idea about freedom and and this I wrote about what I'm interested in right
now and and this is basically feminism journalism social justice digital rights and thinking about on Twitter which is actually quite important to this tool because Twitter is only
touches the backchannel uh upon which were currently working out all of our cultural neuroses about what it means to have a public forum um and that this is the talk which is then they involve talking about rape culture talking about women's rights and talking about democracy and
the public space and as if these things existed in the same world and if and you are upset with that in any way the exit is behind you there and yet so I'm I'm assuming that you guys are comfortable because none of you were leaving right so 101 years ago uh this year Emily welding Davidson threw herself in front of the King's horses at the Epsom Derby as an act of protest as against the yeah failure of the British government to grant the right to vote to women and well kingdoms and such a very interesting characters is famous for being the 1st British suffragette Martin but that's not all she did she was 7 and she's she's wearing this really rather far out out fake here and that the suffragettes of and the spoken of a sort of these figures of find really is a running around in their slightly pants emission outfits being in all meeting and asking for the vote and then they got the vote that was fantastic and is elusive is discussed today is this sort of jams sailed WY philosophy an instance in the
history of firm how democracy was 1 that actually and in 19 14 this is what a
terrorist looks like an the yeah this is it this is how and they were considered dangerous extremists they were locked up and tortured and what happened to Emily Davidson at about a year before she threw herself under that holds with some that she and there was a census went on in 1911 and the whole and the whole of Britain and down she was she was a little than I am actually she was a very very tiny lady indeed although I am of course normal-sized and then she snuck into the house of commons and hid in the cupboard and in the crater in the house
of commons so that when the sensors came on the next day she could legitimately put House of Commons Westminster as her address and so therefore you know the just all the entire system and therefore this and other acts of process she was uh it presents several times the lot on the last time which and what they did to here as they put on a small waterproof cell stripped a naked and they put a hose in through the window and slowly filled the sound up with cold water until she almost drowned and then this happened this is 1 of the means that they used to you 1 be the suffragettes into submission because they really were seen as and dangerous threats to the state
although obviously now the idea of another heroic suffragette has been incorporated in this into our national may think Disney fired and it's spoken of as
noticed something nice that happened and then they got the vote and it was lovely but actually it wasn't like that and then the reason I mention Emily Davis and I've made a study of her life last year I the reason I mentioning Davis this an that as a feminist writer and journalist and activist and something he was interested in what democracy means I often find people saying to me well since you're a woman obviously you all to vote and you want to set support everyone voting because isn't that what women want and actually I was thinking about this and I think that actually Emily Davison would be discussed act that argument and would be and really shocked that's the idea of fun help of women's suffrage has been co-opted into and then argument for complicity with the current system of funding of democratic and of democratic representation which m as we know particularly in Europe right now isn't exactly doing what it says on the tin and what is it what does consent means I absolutely love this quote because some in the next half hour I'm going to talk about sexual consent and the consent of the governed and the consent of the governed as if and because I think those 2 things inform each other's consent of the governed is
found a term that 1st parts of in the US Constitution in in in the Declaration of Independence and that has become a term that's used at the web said describe how governments gain their legitimacy how and uh how they get the right to do the things that they do to us and what it means to you and to consent to that to be a subject of the state and I think that the and that the idea what's happening to our understanding of sexual consent and what's happening to 1 of on understanding democratic consent can can inform each other they're not the same thing and so I'm not I'm not using 1 as a metaphor for the uh they here I I am because I worked as a in 9 in women's rights and I work in them sort of what other people call real politics and i these are my 2
areas of interest and the more I think about the more I think that our idea of what what power is legitimate and is changing very fast in Don In lots and lots of ways and now I'm get and so a brief primer
on that on the use of the term democracy in the past and the let's say a thousand years and the story that we're talking about a story I was told growing up in the UK and the story I learnt from being a latchkey kid in the early nineties and watching a lot of American cuttings and my actually land 1st about and the American Constitution and that the American Civil War by watching the monks and stem which still which it seems actually 1 of my American friends did to you because that's the level of you know which is the American school system seems to work that was fine but yeah the idea that we're told and in in the west is that and democracy began somewhere on the thousand years ago in ancient Greece set of rolled around Europe for a few hundred years and then I went Viet Britain where it got a bit better and then eventually find its natural forever BFF homeland in America and and actually that's not what democracy is at all it's not a straight line the trajectory like that and then of weak over the last even the last 300 years the idea of democracy and is the word democracy has been used to
mean many many different things and around the time of the word democracy appears nowhere in the Yemeni declaration dependence and for example because actually at the time again at saying you were a Democrat was pretty much akin to saying you're a terrorist was a very very dangerous thing to be people did not like the idea of democracy they and they thought it would lead to more parole and send the idea that and everybody voting for representatives and and especially everybody in the entire nation or an entire state voting for representatives was the ideal perfect way of governing a country that never mind that could be exported and is really a very recent thing and so and said different about the history of suffrage we have to remember that until has the almost the mid 20th in the early mid 20th century certainly in the UK various parts of the US it wasn't just on women and people of color who were denied the vote in many circumstances it was also people without property and as well as young people and people under 18 were still denied the vote in many many countries as of prisoners and we must not think about democracy is something that has always been there always in the same always involved every single person with a right to a say about what the government does and the voting and they're having the right to have their say and at the ballot box it said it's a little more complicated than that and we get to the idea that democracy and but certainly for the people at the top of the political spectrum has come to mean this saying that can be exported to other countries democracy is them not only that not only had the right and proper only way of government but it's something that you can actually impose on other
people and and so would the at the writer and critic John Beja has them any I am afraid she might Internet broke down halfway through making this presentation which is why I was running around but the bluest by about 10 minutes ago so I wanted to get this quote for you but you have to accept the belt
double vision and so jumbo in the but at X says that democracy and is 1 of those words like freedom and love that have over the course of the past few decades been taken and twisted and tortured until they give up to their polar opposite because actually a lot of people use the word democracy right now to mean the exact opposite to mean complicity to mean you cannot argue with what the state is doing to mean that you must accept what is done to you and then this is what neoliberalism does is when liberalism does and intends playing all aspects of human life and it makes you and it control human beings by persuading us that we are already free that this is the freest we can possibly be an any idea of any any sort of question to that is C is crazy is deranged is the product of an A a of actor there are and it is now on medical condition descent is now a medical condition it's called the objective and oppositional defiant disorder yes that's the name in the year in the recent dsm-5 and manual of fans and mental this is subject to define disorder and tell you can be given drugs for it and then it goes away and so
apologies finds this image disturbing am I want to talk a little bit about what sexual violence is what state policies and be recognized this picture anybody know this is Cecilie McMillan am I didn't take this pictures and see the robots that I was actually standing about where that woman in the yellow try would never wear yellow trenchcoat so that's not me but I was I was about their when this went on and that this essentially McMillan an activist and occupy Wall Street is the 17th of march 2012 and then settling in is an a socialist activist in New York and was part of a demonstration on that day and there was assaulted by police officers as city's epileptic we see there is having a fit and being brought off the bus on which she was taken being taken to jail and an enemy who was there so assessed sleeping inherent cups cups and left on the ground something around and clearly in some physical distress and was shouting and he's gonna take that go the hospital and that this week that Cecilie McMillan it was convicted of felony assault on a police officer and for that on that day in the party that is a picture of sensing mill and assaulting a police officer you can clearly see that that is what's happening there and then she faces 7 years in jail and while there at it and this is said you that the yeah the framing of police
violence against protesters is actually an assault on those places something that happened in the UK happen without from meadows and is happening with that this happened Cecilie Macmillan here it's a tactic to destroy the reputations all of the people who stand up and dissent against against what's going on and they're occupying it was very important to me and then it was very important to a lot of people here and although it several years ago now and I think we can really talk I think we're now at a place where we can talk about what occupy meant and from a position of distance and said that and the morning for that period of time being slightly over and them to me occupied with this any
mercy of voicing of descent and discussed the system of representative democracy in the system of capitalism only got which is what we have a 99 % was about Occupy was a
movement that took place in the streets that it was a protest about representation began online was facilitated online it was a protest and when people ask you why did occupied and and they've been hundreds and hundreds of think pieces about why occupy and it and that all of them could be about 2 words long which is set what maybe 3 per forwards mercy of global police repression that's why occupy and it's really really simple those a coordinated attack on them thanks that the coordinates at an attempt to suppress that protest at by police forces across the world and eventually it worked because these people were and the the idea of what they were doing is very very new but I believe that the spirit of that movement has not gone away it's dispersed and Dan what interested me when I was that the coverage of the Sesame Macmillan trial and when I was little the coverage of the alpha meadows try was terrified a picture of an for outfit with his son of letters was that was assaulted and actually after allegedly assaulting he was allegedly assaulted by the elected police police back which allegedly spent his skull right open left and bleeding into the brain and on the 10th of December at 2010 and was similarly at charge violent disorder and I couldn't send away for 10 years and there was I the pictures of the injuries Delphi's heterarchical to upsetting to want to show in a public forum like this were looking at those that those trials and read the coverage of reading what and what a lot of people say when it I notice the similarity in the language being used the language of asking for it the language of where you went out there you put yourself and you put itself up against the police he said what he thought and than that so that's going to happen to you so you ask something like that to happen to notice the similarity the only other place that I see that language used routinely particularly online is when people are talking about rape and sexual violence and so
this is also Berlin uh there are lots and lots of pictures of the slope works slot walks on the internet funnily enough because state was a massively media-savvy and fantastic process this is that Berlin in 2011 at this not walks were protest actually I think significantly started at the same time as the occupy movement the the New York it's not what was on the same day as the Brooklyn Bridge protest and some people ran from 1 to the other and those protests in a very similar way were about what it means to say yes and what it means to say no to having something done to for and it was also a really fun chance to walk around in your underwear industry and screamed and that
which is totally J I had a lot of fun and but and the idea that I'm sorry the wavelet stopped and the idea that women and girls in particular are docile bodies that all we can do in terms of existing in public space is protect ourselves as much as possible and wait for the bad stuff to happen and hope it doesn't happen to us is what the slot walks were attempting to you to just to stand against people walked around consumption order address in there and why some people walked around dressed in the clothes they were wearing when they were rates saying this is what I was wearing some people just held massive signs saying not asking for it and ends the idea that consent isn't something you just stand there and wait for something to take from you is a really important part of what is
happening with feminism right now and I don't believe that this kind of conversation in the kind of populist way that it happened would have been
possible if it weren't for the enormous discussions that happen in a few weeks before hand it's not work started in Toronto after police officer told a group of college students that and maybe they should just avoid dressing like sluts if they didn't want to be right and this is something that women of heard for all now people leaving I see this here this is something that would have been told for many many years police officers of saying this
to women and girls come to men but mainly to women and girls in the context of such a need for generations but somehow this particular police officer on this particular day became the target of all this resistance and and own suddenly this movement went viral and that there's still slot what's going on but more importantly there is an
mercy of change in how we talk about consent how we talk about desire online and and I believe the online is where most of the important discussions about gender and sexuality are happening me have spend most of my time sitting in front of Twitter in my parents looking at what people shouting about on Twitter in terms of in terms of feminism and gender and what flame wars are going on today and the buyer I started off I'm in what the world of feminist blogging in there in about 2006 2007 and back then it was still considered quite prepared to write in a big piece saying that date rape is right and we really moved on from that now it's an incredibly fast the the change in number in how we talk about consent and desire but 1 all of these so
these protests from happening on so all the images of the big this is not commission and uh signs
and and and body art what I thought about is this but does anybody with
anybody there on that day the British people or people but this is a in a group and that's that the UN because March 2003 and the mercy of anti-war demonstration that's in London at which I've I've learned that so you can't see the Socialist Workers signed on the on the 9 my name pictures because the Socialist work are a bunch of great denialists in there as splitting into a thousand tiny bite parts right now I'm going to pretend that with that and but I remember I was 16 and I remember going up to London Life 1st big process to sing this sea of no and this sea of you know I do not want this to happen lack of consent New York in my name and I thought and understanding for anybody who was there in many of many of the anti antiwar protests in from 2001 to 2003 will remember that as a hugely
significant moment in the forming of the political sensibilities of a jet generation because of people before that hasn't been laboring under the delusion post 1989 that democracy was functioning well and that generally the wishes of the people being adhered to and their what happened on that day was that an insane under that was too many people around the world millions and millions of the biggest global protest and that kind of make absolutely no difference we still wants war Britain America still went to water and that this fact and the fact that the wishes of the people were clearly ignored and was at a really seminal moment and then I speak to the politicians in the UK at right now and they really don't understand why we're still talking about it they don't understand why it still matters and what a huge snub that was particularly for people who were just coming up at that time and we really we realized that just asking the Government not to do something that was not the way it was in a wet and that in fact we've been lied to you I remember uh about 8 years later when now I was at at no bank when other students in the UK was smashing up uh vh q of the conservative government and walked around the core are recorded as saying why you guys doing this and and then say well we did the peaceful protests thing in 2003 and it didn't work so what are we supposed to do and only and the the similarities
between about what is happening in terms of a raising of consciousness about rape and section 1 of them was happening across Europe and America and the world in terms of raising of consciousness about what representative democracy can mean the similarities are suspicion of institutions loss of trust in the justice system that means that nobody really expects the police to do what we and certainly if we were nice white middle class kids who where you grew up being told that if you're lost you can ask a police officer for directions and the idea that the police and the courts work in your favor that there is justice in the system and all you have this petition that systems work well and is rapidly disappearing I'm saying that that appear across the board both in terms of and the year of terms of the women's rights movement in terms of the Consent movement and in terms of how people understand and democratic protest the right to protest instead this has been replaced by a peer support network which is not always the most effective thing in the world the bombings by the
end of the bones of the online network of leaves but it involves the most important thing is the sharing of stories the sharing of individual stories about descent and about people's real experiences and underpaid GRT under capitalism under a system of debt peonage and they're having a place to publish those stories and have been recognized so much of the occupy movement and you remember it started with the occupying the Internet % tumbler the We are the 99 cent tumble which is just people standing with placards saying this is my life this is what's happened to me and similarly the young the movement against rape culture all over the world and I'm talking in India in Egypt were visited last year to work with the women's movement out there and report on that the whole thing started with people being able to go online right this story and having listened to and of course there are costs that people have been viciously attacked in online and in-person include many of my close friends
in that and this is why and this matters to me as a journalist as well as a feminist and then activist and damn the socialist and sort
Isabella consisting of it solutions I'm not out but that is medicine is a just call that this medicine is a journalist because to me this is what media should be about it should be about facilitation facilitating people people telling stories without the intervention of the state propaganda machine official or unofficial and the resistance within the mainstream media to this kind of story telling has been enormous my own and I really could not have guessed the and the level of backlash there's been and from the main stream as well as from anonymous chosen the internet because we talk a lot about how I'm How will in particular when they're talking about rape and violence online are the targets of other targets of abuse and harassment by trolls and that's true and I have a a lot of reason to attempt to believe that that's true but it's also the the harassment and belittling and dismissal comes from a very very mainstream place it's really important to remember that whenever we talk about the fight to make if the fight to make these things visible these Iast a consent
and this is where this this talk is the fault of 2 people and Alice I've sent them Marxian and to strike you as a as sex activists in some versus those who was working on a book about enthusiastic consent which is the term I can see a couple of people really growing in the front the race which means I know where you come from on the internet and is good at enthusiastic as the term has become popular in the last couple of years and again this is happening purely online and I will succeed here people writing serious literary articles in in the dead tree pressing are also use books was was long like most of the important feminist and said you know gender
activists thinking at happening right now is happening and happening online I say that somebody with a book coming out because they make me and and these yes a consent is the idea that send isn't just not saying no consent isn't just submitting to something being done to you and then you can send involves enthusiasm mutuality and I was I was thinking about that I was thinking about this is a list see and would be occupied yeas and method this is in New
York and I was thinking about being part of student movements and part of anarchist movements and that being part of the idea of of the of direct democracy as it happened that if anybody has done that and direct democracy with the the weekly hands accuracy yet did just widower hands if you have to get hands up yeah
yeah think alright and anybody who has been involved in that knows that it's it it's
silly but also some really really exciting to be part of because suddenly you feel like even on a very very local small level your part of something where your voice matters activity where you don't just get to say yes or no to 1 set of bastards who might be a little bit less awful than the other set of bastards every 5 years or so it can be about more than that and then and so I think that it is really important talk about enthusiastic consent as it might apply the representation as well as it might apply to you to fund 60 times I also have a I just wanted to use this because I loved the slope of the fact that data as I would get I was trying to find an and an appropriate that you
to friendly thing to show it to illustrate enthusiastic consider this case and these enthusiastic consent is about really really liking or at least not hating what's being done to you on everyday intimate level and this is something the idea of
this is really really threatening its threatening to page when you talk about an rape and sexual consider accounts there are political candidates and political donors in the UK Hoon and there is a political done in the UK who last week came out and said that a woman a married woman cannot be right because i if she consensus to something on her wedding day she cannot say no until the mid nineties in Britain it was legal for a husband to rape his wife and these are not all the old ideas this is something to which resistance is active and very vicious as particularly online and and then in the I think we have to start thinking about applying those ideas on the Internet everyday level the how we make decisions as part of a state the how we make decisions as part of a community and and this is where it will becomes a little bit of theoretical because am I'm still in discussion with people about how much how that might work I'm still interested in hearing people's ideas about how about what what I think is very very possible that we don't yet have the
technology and quite to make the system of consensus based and indeed the enthusiastic consensus-based decision-making work on more on on a more broad level I've seen it done very very well in small communities additive communities and women's communities but it tends that we say we are still talking about how to make the technology work better and but what we're doing now is that the system of representation we have in them certainly in Britain arm i in America and in various parts of Europe and the EU right now does not do what it says on the tin it does not represent the wishes of people on the ground then people and the fact that more and more people are becoming a coming to realize that because of this network raising of consciousness is really really threatening because nothing has really changed in terms of the
in terms of the way the system functions system working in this way fled generations what has changed is that people no longer quite believe that it does what we've been told that it does people no longer believe that representative democracy represents an and the yet the consequently immediate consequences of this in Europe m of i got the at the immediate consequences of this in Europe for the action is coming up in the 22nd an odd that and there's been a in the post occupied Iraq there's been a massive rise in printed political Far Right Libertarian and actively fascist movements across Europe as you can and the BNP in the UK there's the Golden Dawn in Greece get billed as part of the from national and those qualities again Ingham massive share of the votes in and across Europe is very very worrying indeed so well I don't wanna be All whilst I am really really excited that this lack of faith in them in representation is happening and that the change in the idea of what democracy does is happening I think we have to be really really clear that this is that what about what is happening and understand that people are also very very afraid and that when people see 60 years systems that they believe it's worked in the will magically working for many many years and not doing what they promised people become very afraid and then that has potentially terrifying consequences especially for minorities immigrants and and then the poor and across Europe right now so I'm at this is basically the conclusion of this talk this is what networks do the question is what do we do next and networks make different kinds of
desire visible and to do about not just sexual desire not not and not as romantic desirable also political desire that allow us to talk about what we want in a much more
active internet read everyday way and that is incredibly threatening at to the current social order but on them In my collectively imagining and how it and how people might run their lives differently but what the question is what we do next and how we weaponize
that visibility of desire and and that is that's the phrase that came from the drunk evening of fun of of writing would make this talk happen and the could give the big question is how can we make this work in order to and cannot have a descent instead and politics which is what I'm seeing right now the question is how do we square this with the voting system is so these really broken that people have no faith in it how do we make and how do we use the network to create a society society and in of which and the dividing Davison from among many many others who have fought for democracy and freedom over the past few centuries would be treated proud and and I don't know the answers to that yet I just me on Twitter lot but I be really interested to see if anybody out there has any answers I think this needs to be the start of a conversation and I think we need to understand what desire of how it is in a in a new way and there's that there's more I want to talk about that but we can
get into that questions always took but Steubenville and their how people are resisting rape culture but if you wanna ask about that that would be great and any questions people have and that we that's much within the title of my book which is coming out in July 2014 it's only July so by about mid-July in probably be available the pirate integers what did the mean is the thank you thank all of the time for questions so the persons very questions all comments train free that yeah the it yes a thank you thank you I just a quick 1 1 people and friends that I respect some fun intelligence make a rape joke what should I do all have that effect I I think
the at the use of that I think sometimes as heat the expected to take jokes and would be people say to me you know quite take the judge in the way that people I think I hear that has content the punch I think saying that it's not funny it's really really have actions that I have heard some funny rate so that mainly not made by the kind of people who then say what could you take a job and if you don't laugh it's not funny and I I think pointing out why things that joking about right and and joking about why that is if they don't matter and is something that is harmful and hurtful is effective but i depends what context during all this the depends if you're in some what we can do that safely where you can do that without biasing violence because we still live in that world you know I'd always talk back sometimes I'm not a situation without safe that's that's good so yeah you it depends on your own on your contacts in your personal situation of the book yeah here
and OK great talk by the the so we needed to approach political change the way we approach economic structure change because of political system is a part of an economic engine and some people within this industry motivated for economic gain which you can make all been considered for politics economically viable you'll start to see you and the political powers that be embraces more openly for example on Sean Parker and then a dumpster polymer which was a revolutionary system because it broke the music industry but now musicians release most of the music for free you can make money off of the people who want to pay for it and want to see them in person so you have to make politics something that people want to use and we want to be a part of I don't know how to do that but I feel like if we approach it from making openness economically viable we will have more of a success approaching politicians approaching the powers that be with these new ideas in these new systems what you take on help I think talking about making systems
easy is really really important thing I think that's happened of dead right that's that's 1 thing that networks do is that which is why I don't always get down clicktivism in assigning a lot of petitions online and is easy but it also makes people think about how they engage in the public sphere Amazonas that's not where it stops that's why I think and I got from the reading and told you that the people who was smarter than me in a war about this stuff that I am pretty sure that the system that the idea that the notion of a system of liquid democracy and liquid and liquid economic and it's economic decision-making that m which would be both transparent an anonymous which you need but there's things Jeffery and functions system the representation we don't necessarily have not yet but that doesn't mean that we can't have the ever really have been there's some people and in this room in this conference you are working on that kind of idea and but it's obfuscation is a tool of power and it's a tool of economic and economic oligarchy and in particular and what people say you can't understand what this market does is too complicated for you and just you know this happened because it happened you know as an act of God and we are encouraged obfuscation is a yeah where distracting attention from who wields power at which is 1 of the ways that 1 of the reasons that's making networks easy of the of access news is important is that that answer your question I feel that that this is more of a chat which is great right it the
the the yeah you the the last the all more for all of politics and the reason I I want to ask you that is because you spoke a lot about making networks sees you usually in making networks available to everyone I think that that's the right direction but I think approaching it for mouse adoption has to be economically viable because these old people with these old archetypes from 1850 were still alive and they still need to understand something because they you control a lot of all your life is over discussion-oriented statement for that it which is why I talk people
speaking should be should should be destroyed and replaced with this in many many ways something think this I think more productive things can be done with like actually saying talking I'm happy to do that afterward so I'm although I'm very very full of adrenaline right now so
my circuit but I I think and yet people are certainly building tools already at least attempting to build tools and which and OWL for of the process of the President of presence is a representation what interests me in the ideas coming of Silicon Valley and our who is making the tools and what and who they're making the tools for and I have also spent a long time and in in mental health activism and talking to people who do not to use the same tools for incredibly empowered and them and connected for the 1st time by these networks and by using the internet but they need to states as it's in its current form they need the welfare system they want to be able to have a say in that particular and in that particular aspect of what the state does for them in terms of collective did and that the ideas about representations and government I mean this is this is a whole other talk and coming out of Silicon Valley right now are mainly being driven by rich white male millionaires he was in his own overshot markers problem or most of those people I know what everything you touch you do
toast close to those proposed to gold what I'm actually pathway in my head I'm thinking Justin Timberlake I absolutely it back and
said that the last thing I I don't know the guy but like I had an eye for an eye and I don't live in Silicon Valley and just visited and written about it which is not the same I know that I it's I think there are
I think Ravelli means different things to different people and the people who were building the tools will affect and will have priorities that affect these tools and that can be changed in influence right and I having 2 letters after is what this is really interesting by the something else want to ask the question that 1st question and yeah
yeah the time and I wonder if is and as a result of the derivatives scandal and so many people lost their homes and so many people not occupy movement where instrumental in helping people get back their homes from wonder if this larger discussion that includes Edward Snowden has been divisive for a lot of people who were initially involved inadequate and can you explain why you might think that I don't really have an explanation I just 1 know if they feel that Snowden maybe takes away from the use of everyday problems people on the same or if they feel like it's just systemic problems but I have yet to
really important question actually in and I think not necessarily 1 that and uh goes down well in this sort of forms of very brave ask and I certainly in various kinds of activism I am here involve with and various people I meet particularly you are working with in welfare within housing disability rights and workers rights that the was going on with in what's going on with those revelations does seem tangential actually yes that that may not be right but I think that is a feeling on the ground and people are looking at wall-to-wall coverage and by some outlets of this issue and a and it hasn't been properly explain why it matters to them why security matters by giving the item from me I think and our notion of what security is an in terms of economic and then and state security is really bound up with the idea of of what freedom is what consent is because that the the notion of what and again I didn't get to this in the talk but I think there is again a parallel in that we are taught that instead of being free a that were taught as women instead of being free to where what we want and do what we want and go where we want we should just you know try and protect ourselves as much as possible and and trust that the bad things might not happen and that's and what we've been being told what you did to Americans and can be solved for at least the last decade the 911 and security is much more important than individual freedom you should give up your rights to do you things you should give up your right to not be watched and then not be surveillance controlled in order to have this set this greater liberty security and there's that mangled Benjamin Franklin quite which nobody is really sure if he actually said and about how he who he who would and sacrifice liberty security deserves neither and I think it's very pertinent whether or not Benjamin Franklin actually said it and I can only assume that 1 of his
money in that company and of it yeah times right and then from the internet you really 1 of so I like to discussion a lot of them I think it's something that a lot of people remember and associated with occupied was from a desire after a coalesce to kind of recuperated and uh desire to political retrenchment of there was all commentary in the press now that all these people have got together they need goals they need a positive thing of among them I'm thinking particularly of Bill Clinton who I think in New York said to occupy Wall Street or maybe was not applied in a now that this has all this momentum all we need is a set of policy goals for Congress to built a photo of him and a kind of you know taking all of that descent and turning it ultimately into a kind of approval for the state process and I wondered do you see any of that and feminism is the kind of acceptable form of feminism the universe is being promoted I we have here there's some definitely
yeah and I think some people call it liberal feminism and so on and the liberal feminism is why I prefer to call it as an idea of an acceptable face of from what about what feminism and women's rights can be in particular of the past few years as their feminism has become much more of a hot button topic much more click where the and much more dangerous and scary to people these figures like tells them but have emerged and who are saying really not very radical things the and in nice suits loudly and and then that insensitive stand in for the kind of radicalism that people really want almost nobody within the online is a feminist activism community to whom the feminism of all 4 of the boardroom and they're of the business community has any relevance whatsoever and but I think it's really really important to understand who is driving that feminism to benefit from that kind of activism as being as the most supported and that the most useful as ambient meaning the feminist writer Nina power with tacit all read have but one-dimensional woman she's also and I know that feminists who is very some very very active learning and the police violence in and in the right to process and that she can have a one-dimensional woman she talks about this kind of the mainstream feminism digital these people as decoys like these decoys feminists and I think that is applicable to you and to not necessarily optimal occupy movement but in all in movements like that people do come through who are the acceptable face of whatever it is you want shiny where a city to articulate too often from better-off backgrounds and more educated backgrounds than many of the people they purport to represent and and it's yeah it's really important to understand that happening and the combat liberalism crashed in the House of being a time for that
1 or 2 more Hillary thank all hashtags then Boston and so my question for you is that there are Thomas Piketty's in the capital and 21st century I think as well as all of and given that that were basically you underscores everything that the occupy movement was saying about the economic inequality is there anything when it was is rise response so that or has there been like a response to that are they going to respond to always a all of like some face the task and not only
I shall only half . 3 that the but right now and but I think that the idea that that's animated those you haven't written on all on like having read the summaries and the idea of the talk because it the French apart economists basic amount but the proves that capitalism without in and as a neoliberal capitalism in its current and form without serious social democratic checks inevitably and leads oligarchy needs to gross inequality that's just something built into the system it's a feature not about and that this is the and that's what the occupy movement was saying from day 1 and and the fact that there is now a more modern theory to back it up and is that of it's not it doesn't necessarily make me sad but it makes me on is that words sound that and it's a Portuguese words on that and that say and is which means m nostalgia for something that almost happened but then never really happened I wish that there had been more understanding and acceptance of those a bit I wish to occupy had been given enough time and sent every really wish that they had had more time just to be there and talk because really and it it was the most important time politically but really the big payday only lasted 2 or 3 months and then I think it's really really and I'd be interested to see what happens next because and a lot of people predicting that and then would be another movement of that type in the next year or few years nobody knows what it's going to look like that and I'm really hoping that and that movement will be able to learn from the last and have time to stick around a little longer and payment and the
and the thing so much for your talk i'm really happy to see this a subject being sucked right here I'm I'm interested in the of the mental health institution you mention you've done some work in it and I didn't know that good news the dsm-5 5 came out I'm unaware of this new 1 but so the idea is that the new leg arm and health label notice oppositional defiant disorder and later this this is it for I mean I I like looked into the the DSM so it doesn't surprise me that there exists but it's still like to hear what the fuck and like looking back at the history of like it's all of these labels of mental health are always connected with public radical like activism like you're people in the Black Panther Party were labeled as schizophrenia and even like the waves running away from their masses word like having a special label like their brains are wrong and like I just I know that like in 20 years of so will look back and make all these huge critique on this label but I'm just curious like our other words you've done like mental health factor themselves OK I could do that for an
hour and a half dozen of creating 1 and then it idiot that the band of the and the use of head and the medicalization of descendants and the pathologization of descent has been
and something that's happened that throughout the history of the modern mental health system through throughout its entire history particularly in the last century when people started to categorize and define what disorders well and the so this is occupied and people the people being pulled crazy people being clear on people being fundamentally and well even the class there was a lot of people who turned up with those occupy terms because they were in desperate need the kind of social and mental support they were getting in the outside world is councils of function as that they became like health care centers for a lot of people and the and you know women being called crazy hysterical the opinion of tech 100 years ago this the idea that you didn't want a husband and that you would like to have some sex was a sectional thing you could get locked up and have parts of your brain removed because that's all the suffragettes were considered hysterical considered and and many of them were sent to mental institutions and and remained there and I think I'm for me and for a lot of the people involved in Occupy and again this was and this is a whole different talk at what radical politics off for them and and was therefore at best is that it is about mental resilience is about emotional the emotional resilience that community in resistance brings I think and what is really and what tree pathological what is truly damaging to people's health and well being and is said possibly sitting by will these terrible terrible things go on in accepting the system as it is to me that's what is pathological and there is definitely a word definition going on right now and then my favorite thing about all of these movements is how people to support each other and building this kind of new world and I guess I'm through my minute so I think the the few have
come back