Why should you know who has been asking about you?
This is a modal window.
The media could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
Formal Metadata
| Title |
| |
| Title of Series | ||
| Number of Parts | 126 | |
| Author | ||
| License | CC Attribution - ShareAlike 3.0 Germany: You are free to use, adapt and copy, distribute and transmit the work or content in adapted or unchanged form for any legal purpose as long as the work is attributed to the author in the manner specified by the author or licensor and the work or content is shared also in adapted form only under the conditions of this | |
| Identifiers | 10.5446/33357 (DOI) | |
| Publisher | ||
| Release Date | ||
| Language |
Content Metadata
| Subject Area | ||
| Genre | ||
| Abstract |
|
re:publica 201482 / 126
15
19
22
26
29
31
33
34
35
41
42
49
50
58
68
71
72
74
78
84
87
88
89
91
93
97
100
102
105
106
107
108
109
110
112
119
121
122
123
125
126
00:00
Data acquisitionRight angleTemporal logicComputer programmingLevel (video gaming)Extension (kinesiology)Focus (optics)Boundary value problemContext awarenessPhysical lawOrder (biology)QuicksortPoint (geometry)Matrix (mathematics)AreaSpacetimeGraph (mathematics)WeightSelf-organizationInternetworkingDigitizingProcess (computing)BitComputer fileState observerInteractive televisionState of matterMultiplication signService (economics)Electronic mailing listObject-oriented programmingMereologyIdentifiabilityAuthorizationBasis <Mathematik>IP addressProcedural programmingArmRule of inferenceTask (computing)Data miningFood energyFreezingSet (mathematics)Term (mathematics)System callIntegerCoalitionLine (geometry)Query languageComputer animationPanel painting
07:25
Parameter (computer programming)TelecommunicationOpen setTrailLimit (category theory)Basis <Mathematik>MetadataProjective planeEstimatorComplex (psychology)Video gameInternetworkingPoint (geometry)IdentifiabilityForestPhysical lawRadio-frequency identificationContext awarenessMeeting/Interview
09:08
ForestResultantParameter (computer programming)State of matterQuicksortPhysical lawMechanism designDirection (geometry)CASE <Informatik>Multiplication signResonatorDigitizingRight angleSelf-organizationSimilarity (geometry)Lecture/Conference
10:11
CASE <Informatik>AuthorizationArithmetic meanArchaeological field surveyPoint (geometry)InternetworkingForcing (mathematics)WordLevel (video gaming)LoginTelecommunicationObservational studyPhysical lawForestLecture/Conference
11:32
ForestCASE <Informatik>ResultantVideo gameWordInternetworkingDiagramProgram flowchart
12:24
Multiplication signResultantStandard deviationLevel (video gaming)Physical lawXML
13:20
AuthorizationCASE <Informatik>WaveCoefficient of determinationNumberResultantMedical imagingTraffic reportingCross-correlationMathematical analysisXML
14:44
Information privacyProcess (computing)NumberMechanism designComputer programming1 (number)DemosceneAuthorizationPoint (geometry)Traffic reportingMeeting/Interview
15:57
Field (computer science)Mechanism designInformation privacyTraffic reportingAuthorizationMultiplication signIP addressState of matterInternetworkingMathematicsMatrix (mathematics)Physical lawOrder (biology)QuicksortSelf-organizationGenderNumberDigital electronicsPower (physics)Basis <Mathematik>VolumenvisualisierungFocus (optics)Metric systemReading (process)Lecture/Conference
19:40
HypermediaPolar coordinate systemSurface of revolutionData storage deviceView (database)Information securityOpen sourcePower (physics)Context awarenessData managementDatabaseData analysisMathematical analysisChemical equationWordWater vaporMixed realityDecision theoryProjective planeInformation privacyExtension (kinesiology)Group actionState of matterSpeech synthesisMathematicsVector potentialTraffic reportingShift operatorGoodness of fitStrategy gameNatural numberTheoryTrailProcess (computing)Table (information)Point (geometry)AlgorithmWeb pageAngleProfil (magazine)DataflowQuicksortVotingSelf-organizationFirewall (computing)Right angleDifferent (Kate Ryan album)MultiplicationMeasurementMotif (narrative)AreaPosition operatorExterior algebraComputer fileExecution unitLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
28:04
Data acquisitionComputer animation
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:15
Hello to the next session here. Okay. Thank you very much for putting on your headphones because this is a
00:22
silent the silent stage here and I'm I'm very happy to have a very special person here at our stage. This is I Tried I tried I tried Katarzyna Shemely which from and she's she's from Poland and she is a human rights lawyer and
00:44
Activist and I'm sorry and an activist and and co-founder and president of panopticon and she's also a vice president of the European digital rights movement and She will tell us about why you should you know who has been asking about you and
01:07
I'm yeah I just give the phone over to you and the stage is yours and I'm very interested in what you are talking about. So Go on. Thank you so much. It sounds all very complicated I hope I will manage to make it easier for you in this 30 minutes. We have I must confess
01:25
I never ever had that opportunity of speaking with my headphones on headphones on my ears. So it feels really funny Anyway, before I take you in that topic and before I maybe explain this a bit A bit nasty title a bit arrogant title. Let me take one more minute to explain
01:46
Where I come from? Oops technical difficulty Yeah works to explain a bit my background and where I come from and why I'm talking about what I will talk
02:00
Here today. So panopticon foundation is a Polish NGO We work in Poland But we basically work on international levels because our major Mission our focus is human rights in the context of surveillance and surveillance as you know perfectly well by now It's something that doesn't really recognize borders. So recently we have been quite busy
02:23
But even without mr. Snowden and his revelations we have been quite busy doing basically two things on one hand We work with politicians We try to influence the laws be that in Poland or on the EU level in Brussels in order to introduce more safeguards to protect human rights in the context of surveillance
02:41
Both from public and private players because we don't discriminate we think that both sorts of surveillance are Well can be wrong can be legitimate, but it's complicated on the other hand We work with people more directly we engage in education in awareness rising in various campaigns We promote tools like technical technology
03:01
collective tools We give them to people and we explain why they should actually Take care and and take time to protect themselves from surveillance So that's panopticon, but we're also part of something much bigger Which is European digital rights a coalition of modern 30 organizations doing very similar job all around Europe
03:21
If you want to hear about any of this later I'm here to talk to you and feel free to grab me today I will tell you only about one small piece of that work in fact I would like to take you for a walk to a very weird place To the place where the internet means meets the law enforcement and intelligence
03:43
I'm quite sure that you've been to that place even if you don't realize that So essentially state authorities like police secret services tax authorities They have the right to check your online data. They have the right to request data from internet companies
04:01
It's legal in most of the countries if not all the countries I know but not in every country these things happen in a transparent way Not always they happen for good reasons and not always they are kept within the boundaries of what we would See as legitimate we as citizens and therefore I would say this is quite quite a white place
04:24
You can use your own imagination to try to Place on that picture where you would see law enforcement internet users and internet companies I will not impose anything here But just one point I want to make is that this is quite Uncharted territory and we still know much less than we think we know and therefore there is a lot of space for imagination
04:45
Well, I bet that many of you feel that you have actually learned quite a lot about this area through Snowden revelations These little graphs you see here are from NSA observatory created by Lakhra to do nets our friendly
05:00
Organization from France and they did excellent job in in data mining the the snowland files in order to identify Many programs and many tools used by NSA like prism temporal upstream bull run all these names I hope bringable to you. We could spend half an hour just bringing up these names But so having so much data do you really know?
05:24
What's going on? My feeling and my my my personal worry is that not really the key questions still remain unanswered So even if we know that certain programs exist We still don't know who is using them exactly to what extent they are being used by European intelligence to what extent our
05:40
Governments are involved what sorts of data in particular are being collected how deep they go Who really is the target all these extremely relevant questions they remain unanswered and this is basically why I still prefer The jungle as a metaphor of where we are now because we are lost in the matrix of surveillance
06:01
And we are being left here by both private and public players. Not without the reasons my point and What I argue today is that we shouldn't Tolerate that because in fact, we should we do have a right to know much more than we know now And we should demand that sort of knowledge
06:22
What exactly I think that we should be asking our our our governments and the companies that hand over data to them Essential thing is who who are they in the jungle because we still don't know we know that there is some cooperation between US intelligence and European stages, but we really don't know who are the observers
06:41
We don't know how often they ask we don't know what they ask for. So is it going very deep? Is it just our IP numbers or is it our history of all interactions online? Is it our search queries? Is it our list of contacts? Is it? Is it what we do online? There is so much data out there and we don't know to what extent this data being is being used but in
07:03
The worst thing is that we don't know why it happens We don't really know who is targeted and for what reasons so my point would be that that knowledge is essential and We should fight for it for for for one major reason Namely there is a lot a lot a lot that can be said about us on the basis of what we do online
07:23
How many of you recognize that picture? It's it's dark, but I can see that quite a few it's it's a Michael Crayola and data or open data city Project using data Given to them by or well basically using data that a German politician
07:45
Maltese pits took from telecom companies a few years back and That data has been used by by this open data community to show how much can be said just on the basis of our telecommunications of metadata So not really the context of the communications
08:02
But the data about with whom we communicated when where we were that all combined with Publicly available data about that particular politician basically helped these guys Recreate a big piece of his of his life now very similar project by exactly the same people has been done
08:22
using data From both internet and telecoms for for for Balthazar gladly Swiss politician so the point I'm making here is that there is so much knowledge out there And we cannot really stop that knowledge being generated because that's what the way we leave
08:41
But we should definitely work very hard to protect it and not give it away without a fight and the first Safeguard that I can think of is more transparency if we know more about what's going on we can probably identify Issues problems threats much more effectively than now when we are lost in this deep deep forest
09:02
so The second argument that comes to my mind when I'm asking myself question Why we should fight for it is legal argument, but we actually have that kind of law already present in European Union Maybe many of you have heard about the data retention directive. That's exactly the same one that has been
09:22
Has been declared invalid by European Court of Justice a month ago This is a wrong instrument, and we we meaning digital rights organizations We've been fighting with that for years But even in that not very nice instrument European Commission and other European institutions agreed that there has to be some transparency
09:42
So if member states use data retention they have to declare they have to report to the Commission once a year How many times they did it for what purposes in which cases it was used and with what result? Because without that sort of data you cannot really say whether a surveillance mechanism that you use
10:00
works or whether it doesn't work, and this is something that gives us food for thought because Online there is nothing similar on one online. We are really back to to the wild Because no non such law exists neither on European nor on on national level and that's something that Really should be reconsidered so back to Poland to my country sitting there
10:25
After snowing revelations we thought that we might well like to go deeper in this forest and check What is really happening on this intersection of internet and law enforcement so we did a small? Survey a small case study we decided to ask 10 major internet companies
10:43
Basic questions basically who asked them for for our meaning citizen date citizens data Whether they gave this data whether they refused what case is it concerned? Who are the authorities? What were the purposes? basic stuff still building on that presumption that if it was possible for telecommunication data it should also be
11:05
feasible for internet data the same questions Just changing the verbs from from from receiving to send we we asked to the authorities themselves so to nine intelligence Agencies that we have in Poland and to to to police We couldn't ask prosecutions
11:21
And we couldn't ask course because there are very many of them And we could never send all these FOIA requests at least not in six months that we were dealing with this little survey but we sent some and Well, what have we learned it was a very interesting experience because after six months we really we realized that indeed We are going in a very deep forest where nobody
11:43
And at least not very many companies are willing to talk to us because they're too Too too afraid that we will interpret this against them that users by discovering more and more what's going on They will lose trust so only four companies eventually gave us the data We wanted not even full data and what we discovered on the face of it. You see here
12:02
It was quite obvious result. Just seeing that with every month. There is more requests About internet users probably because more and more of our life is moving online and therefore there are more excuses or more cases To to to ask but what was much more interesting?
12:21
When we look deeper was the were the reactions of these companies So how many times they responded positively to this request how many times they actually disclosed our data? And that was something that gave us very different results as you can see One company fulfills almost all requests while another company didn't fulfill even 20%
12:43
Why so how this is possible Simply because polish law and from what I know many other legal regimes Does not give a clear standard for the companies where they have to comply and where they have to say yes to such requests Coming from law enforcement or coming from from intelligence as a result
13:01
It's for the companies to decide what standards they apply As a matter of fact, it will be the companies defining the level of protection not the law This is something we feel that definitely should be changed Because it cannot be like that. We cannot trust them so much another interesting Discovering that will be the last I will talk about now
13:22
But you can read more in the report that I left for you on the back or online if you like It's analysis of who has been asking We asked as I said both the companies and the authorities and the answers were quite coherent Everybody agreed or told us that the great majority of the requests came from law enforcement
13:41
Namely police or persecution and not from intelligence the very tiny dot on on the left Is intelligence if we can trust this data if we can trust this data, it's quite reassuring basically saying that we are mostly dealing with law enforcement in Europe or in Poland and not with
14:01
Big scandals like NSA, but that's all what they declare what they give to us And We cannot have the guarantee that something is not hidden behind the same questions asked to Public authorities gave us as I said before similar results But the big question mark comes from the fact the police refused to give its data so we could only interpret this
14:26
Correlation from just comparing the numbers that in both cases talking about intelligence. We had quite small numbers not the big numbers We expected or we feared that we might we might have them but interestingly enough it were it was the intelligence It gave us more data when asked than police
14:43
Well, okay So we got some numbers and it was quite exciting process of collecting it analyzing and discovering how many obstacles there were Inside of this process, but do we really understand the world better having these numbers for me? this little experiment was All the more interesting that I came to conclusion that not really we still obviously we still don't have the
15:06
The answers to the most relevant questions the same ones that I asked when we were still in the jungle We still don't know what's happening behind the scenes What's why why these people are asking why these authorities are asking these questions?
15:21
How deep this this these questions go inside of our privacy? What what kind of cooperation mechanisms mechanisms are behind it all this was secret All this was refused to us by both the companies and and the public authorities. So my point is that we shouldn't really We shouldn't really let them fool us with their numbers
15:42
We shouldn't really feel much more comfortable having all these names of programs used by NSA and having all these numbers that are coming up from various transparency reports or Collecting these numbers ourselves because the key questions are still hidden from us Therefore our report the one that that I gave you here
16:03
Focuses less on data and more on the problems the problems that we actually know that we have known them before we know them now and They don't change. They don't really change since I started my work in this field and when I speak to all their colleagues They also talk about the same about lack of oversight lack of mechanisms that would allow us citizens verify
16:23
Whether we are under surveillance lack of mechanisms that that enable parliamentarian parliamentarian commissions or or DPAs data protection authorities or ombudsman or anybody else go inside of the surveillance matrix to check what's going on there This is something that has to be repaired not only Europe but but but beyond there are also loopholes very interesting loopholes
16:47
It can be used and abused not only by state but also by private actors I'm sure that you heard of copyright strolling or maybe even you received letters from from from law firms that claim that you downloaded illegally or Allegedly, you don't know that something illegal from the net and on the base of your IP number
17:05
They claim that you should you should pay the money This is all done on the base of this data at least in Poland They use police and and prosecution to get this sort of data about internet users and then abuse This data in order to blackmail us into paying money. We shouldn't pay
17:22
So all these safeguards are missing and this is something we have to face as citizens not getting stuck with the numbers And and then the nice things you can you can you can do with them? So the question that I want to ask to you Basically is are there any real solutions that we can think of together?
17:42
Where do we start when I've read the speaker's guidelines for this conference? The organizer said solutions are something we look for of course, but this is the trickiest issue Does anyone have the answer? This is this is this is tricky, isn't it? So maybe this is the time where we could talk if we still have some time. Where do we start? Do we start with companies do we expect more from companies more transparency less cooperation?
18:04
Maybe less data collection in the first place or do we start with changing our governments? Can we change them? Do you think that if we change governments a law enforcement and intelligence will stop working the way it works now will be more Transparent or is it something that doesn't change regardless of political power? What do you think? I invite you to talk
18:23
This is your time now. Thank you
18:42
Comments please
19:34
Can you hear me yes, I think it's I think it's
19:41
Probably too late to To get all the data back because it's already in the wild as it's called. So I think we as the public should demand for the data to be To be made open so we can see them and read them and maybe influence what is done with them. I
20:04
What you can do with the data, you know all the algorithms that that maybe companies or Governments or other organizations have developed developed to work with our data and I really don't know what I don't even know what to ask for about this this kind of stuff
20:21
But I think first step should be that that everybody should publish which data they have That is something that we that we maybe have to work For in NGOs or as voters or you know publishers whatever Thank you. It's interesting comment. There is even this concept of fighting surveillance with more transparency
20:42
Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting point of view and there is even this concept of fighting surveillance with more data I mean if everybody if everybody knows Basically everything about everybody then we might have less surveillance at least less power more power balance. So to say I To what to some extent I like this idea and I do think we should always and therefore I'm speaking today about this particular topic
21:06
We should always demand more transparency from those who have data on us that goes without saying There is because this is the only way for us to discover potential abuses or potential problems that are hidden there But whether our transparency would help that process that here. I'm not sure we will always have much less
21:24
Ability to deal with this data then say Google or NSA or any other government and therefore This is only theoretical balance if everybody knows every everything right the processing power and the algorithms that we have at hand Did they do differ? Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Okay. I can't listen. I'm
21:43
Thank you for raising these issues and giving your talk. I've appreciated it I've got one comment and I'm coming from it from a slightly different angle rather than Demand that we demand transparency. I don't think the nature of modern information
22:03
Storage and flow allows for that anymore. And what I mean by that is Organizational Motives now want data. They wanted to churn data. They want to analyze it. They want to profile big data over large
22:23
Assumptions being made in all sorts of areas, so I don't think demands of transparencies are going to work anymore But on the positive side, I'd like to start to suggest an alternative, but this is going to involve a cultural change one of the things we should start thinking about is everyone is going to have to start to be and
22:43
Excuse the metaphor their own private firewall. They are going to have to be their own data managers and I Like the idea of flipping technology around Enabling, you know from the media revolutions with PCs allowing everyone to make films now
23:00
everyone can be their own security infrastructure as well as The corporations who who hide these databases from the people and certainly hide what analysis analyses they do with it One interesting project and might be related as well That is open source is a project called
23:21
Multigo Multigo is a data. Yep. You may have heard of it great fantastic It's a data analysis engine and I promote everyone to start analyzing data to themselves in other words I wonder whether there's a cultural change and a shift that can happen in the way that we handle and manage our own information
23:40
And start to search back and correlate back ourselves in the way that we can we will never have the resources at the NSA Individually and we will never have the resources of large governments whether good or bad in nature But maybe maybe if we just realize what we can do both individually and collectively in data management ourselves
24:02
We can start to address some of these issues So you would go up for individual strategies rather than trying to change the law or introduce more Individuals and groups I think because you know A lot of the other topics in this conference from crowdfunding to others Individuals all doing this and starting to go down this journey starting to forge a track through that wilderness
24:26
At least realize how much wealth you give out exactly There may be other measures as well, but that's one I want to bring to the table. Yeah No, thank you so much. Just don't get me wrong. I would never ever make the point that transparency solves the thing I even somehow attacked this this this
24:43
Illusion that having more data solves any of the problems because it does not we do need in my opinion We do need both we need strong legal safeguards So legal solutions that will prevent these abuses from happening and bring more transparency for us But that's that's the state or companies doing for us. But on the other hand, I'm completely with you on that page
25:02
We should work individually, but that's say Jake and Jillian. We're just speaking about PGP next door This is the kind of tactics that I use personally and I recommend everybody to use because there is no other Way, nobody will do it for us. That's for sure Any further comments? Yes. Hello My name is Mike. I'm from Poland
25:22
About the transparency voice and and I was I would just like to say something about using the word Transparency with regard to private data. This feels really weird with this thing Sorry, I think that we should not use the word transparency in the context of our private data
25:40
Transparent the word transparency and the word accountability are extremely important in the context of government in the context of in the context of institutions in the context of corporations in the context of anything that is big powerful and and institutionalized, right But as soon as we start using the word transparency or accountability in the with with regard to private data
26:07
We are starting to muddy the waters between two different discussions between the discussion of Being able to hold accountable institutions corporations governments etc And the discussion of us being able to defend ourselves
26:21
against those kinds of entities right so I would This is something that shows up sometimes and I'm not saying that that it was It was on purpose, of course, right? But I'm just I'm just saying that we should be very careful not to not to muddy the waters and mix the two
26:40
Discussions because they are very different and if we let those two discussions mix We will end we will end up in a situation where we will not be able to argue In either of those discussions the way we would want right the way that would make our private data Private and on the other hand that would make corporate government etc data
27:01
Available for us to to look into and make those make their decisions make their actions transparent. Thank you Cannot agree more Thanks for that great comment Well, actually, I'm really really sorry I already saw this there's one more question and there was another one But we we have the problem that right now the next maybe in the next two minutes and the next session will be here
27:25
And then the final I would take I would really I would really I'm very sorry. I'm really sorry for this because it's really you know, our timetable is incredible. So but you are you are still here and you want to give to give something to the
27:44
Listeners and so you you might maybe answer the questions outside. I'm And there are these reports I mentioned are sitting behind you So if you feel like taking them or finding them them on them online, it's all available But you can also grab me why I'm here in person. Thank you so much for the good discussion