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Why should you know who has been asking about you?

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hello to the next session here OK thank you very much of putting on your headphones figure this is the the silence of the silence stage here and I'm I'm I'm very happy to have some a very special person year at all stages of some I've had a tried a tried for energy map should believe rich from and use them she's from Poland and she is a human rights lawyer and term activist and no I'm sorry in activist and now and call Solomon president of the net to come and she's also wise President off from the European Digital Rights Movement and she would send us arms about why you should you know would have been asking about you will and I'm mom yeah I just use the phone over to you and that is URIs and I'm very interested in what you are talking about so go on thank you so much it sounds all very complicated I hope I will manage to make it easier for you in this vitamin is that I must confess I never ever had that the procedure of sticking with my it would have also had headphones on light years so feels really findings Adelaide before I take you in that topic and before I may be explained is to a and B 2 nasty title of arrogant title let me take 1 more minute to explain how where I come from what technical difficulty yeah what's to explain it but my background and where I come from and why I'm talking about what i will talk about here today so panopticon foundation is a policy and do all the work in Poland but we basically work on international levels because our major mission our focus is human rights in the context of surveillance and surveillance as you know perfectly well by now it's something that doesn't really recognized borders so recently we have been quite easy but even without Mr. Snowden's revelations we have been quite busy doing basically 2 things on 1 hand we work with politicians we try to influence and all speed ball and or on the EU level in Brussels in order to introduce more safeguards too to protect human rights in the context surveillance both from public and private players because we don't discriminate would think that both sets of surveillance are uh well can be wrong can be written but it's complicated on the other hand we work with people more directly we engage in education in awareness rising in various campaigns we promote tools like that tactical technology collective tools but we give them the people and we explain why they should actually uh they could occur and and and take time to protect themselves from surveillance so that's optical but we also part of something much bigger which is European these the rights a coalition of modern fraternization doing very similar jobs all around Europe and if you want to hear about any of this laser I'm here to talk to you and feel free to interrupt me today I will tell you only about 1 small piece of that where are in fact I I would like to take you for a walk through a very weird place to the place where the Internet means meets the long for spent and intelligence I'm quite sure that you've been to that place even if you don't realize that I so essentially state authorities like police secret services tax authorities they have a right to to check your all my data they have the right to request data from Internet companies it's legal in most of the countries it's not all the countries I know but not in every country these things happen in a transparent way not always they happen for good reasons and not always they are kept within the boundaries of what we would rules see as legitimate we as citizens and therefore I will say this is quite quite air a white lights but you can use their own imagination to try to place on that picture where you would see law-enforcement users and companies I will not impose anything here but this 1 . 0 1 to make is that this is a quite uncharted territory and we still know much less than we think we know and therefore there is a lot of space for imagination I all I bet that many of you feel that you have actually don't quite a lot about this area that's true Snowden's revelations move this little graphs you see here are from and as they opted battery created by elaborated in its our friendly and organization from friends and he did excellent job in in data mining that they're small and vise in order to identify many programs and many tools used by in state like freezing temporale upstream bull run all these names I hope printable to you we could spend half an hour just bringing up these names but so having so much data do we really know was going on my feeling in my mind my personal is that's not really the key questions still remain unanswered so even if we know certain problems exist with you don't know who is using an exact exactly to what extent they're being used by European intelligence to what extent our governments are involved what sorts of they found in particular are being collected how deep the go who really is the target all these extremely relevant questions they remain unanswered and this is basically why I still prefer the jungle our as a metaphor of where we are now because we all are lost in the matrix of surveillance and we're being left here by both private and public players not with other reasons my point and so what argue today is that we shouldn't tolerate that because in fact wish we would how would you have a right to know much more than we know now and we should demand that sort of knowledge of what exactly I think that we should be asking our our our government and the companies that handle the data to them essential think cool who are they in the jungle because we still don't know we know that there is some cooperation between US intelligence and you're be integers but we don't know why the user we don't know how often they are we don't know what they for so is it going very deep easy just our IP numbers or is it a were a history of all interactions line is it our search queries is that our list of contacts I is a it's a is it what we do on the so much about their own don't know to what extent is it a being is being used but that in in that the the worst thing is that we don't know why it happens we don't really know who is targeted and for what reasons so my point would be that that knowledge is essential and we should fight for for for for 1 major reason namely there is a lot a lot a lot that can be said about task on the basis of what we do online how many of you recognize that picture it it's it's done but conceded 20 here it's it's in my
my Michael trail and data all Open Data RCT um project using data from you enter them by or well basically using data that German politician mother speeds took from telecom companies a few years back and that data has been used by by these Open Data community to show how much can be said just on the basis of our work to limitations of of metadata so not with the complex of the communications that the data about with whom we communicated when where we were not all combined with uh publicly available data about that article politicians basically hold these guys recreate the heat of his of his life now very thin the project by exactly the same people have been done um using data of move from both Internet and telecoms 4 4 4 0 Boston Eric Leslie I mean Switzerland so the point I'm making here is that there is so much knowledge of them and we can't really stop that knowledge being generated because that's where the way we that we should definitely work very hard to protect it and not to deviate away without the flight and the 1st safeguard that I can think of is more transparency if we know more about what's going on we can probably identify issues problems threats much more effectively than now when we are lost in this deep deep forest so the 2nd argument that come from my mind when estimates of what a why we should fight for it is legal argument that we actually have that kind of law already present in European Union maybe many of you have heard about the Data Retention Directive exactly the same 1 that has been of little has been declared invalid by European Court of Justice uh a month ago so this is a wrongly selected we we meaning the 2 resonators would've fighting with that for years but even in that not very nice instrument European Commission and other agreed that there has to be some forests that leave Member States use data retention they have to declare they have to report to the Commission was the year how many times they did it for what purposes in which case it was used and with what results because we don't that sort of data you can't really say whether a surveillance mechanism you use words or whether it doesn't work and this is something that gives us food for thought because online there is nothing singer on what online we're back to to do Ohio that because not nonsuch logs is neither not on the on European nor on on national level and that's something that really should be rid of so that 2 point to my country sitting there after Storm revelations before that we might well like to go deeper in this forest and check what is really happening on this intersection of Internet and all the force so we did a small survey at a small case that we decided to ask 10 major Internet companies basic questions basically who ask them for for our meaning cities and they citizens they tell i whether they begin these data where the refused 0 what cases had concerned the word the authorities that what were the purposes basic stuff still building on the presumption that if it was possible for the community that it should also be feasible for Internet data this inquest is just changing the verbs from from from receiving to send we we asked to the authorities themselves so to 9 intelligence agencies that we have a involuntary and to to to police and we couldn't as prosecutors so we couldn't as cost but they're very many of them or we could never send all these square requests at least not in 6 moles of we were dealing with this little survey that we sent some and what what have we here it was a very interesting experience because after 6 months we you know we we realize that indeed we are going in a very deep forest where nobody at and Italy's not very many companies are willing to talk to us because the tomb to too afraid that will interpret this against them that users by discovering more and more what's going on there will lose trust so only for companies eventually gave us the data we want it not even full data and what we discovered on the face of it you see here it was quite obvious result just saying that with every month there is more requests room as about introduces probably because more and more of our life is moving online and therefore they're more excuses or more cases to to to ask what was much more interesting when we look at the with the word the reactions of these companies so how many times they responded positively to this request colonies and it to disclose our data and that was something that has very different results as you can see 1 company fulfilled almost all requests wire and other companies leading fulfill even 20 per cent why so how this is possible simply because Polish long and from what I know many other legal regimes that's not the vacuous standard for the companies where they have to comply and where they have to say yes to such requests coming from reinforcement or coming from from intelligence as a result it for the companies to decide what's done they and as a matter of fact it will be the company's defining the level of protection not done this is something we feel definitely should be changed as because it can be like that we can trust them so much another interesting of discovering that would be the last I will talk about now but you can read more in the report the data for you on the back or or or 90 like that it's analyzes of school has been asked we asked as I said both the companies and the authorities and the answers were quite covering everybody agree or told us that the great majority of the requested from law-enforcement namely police of persecution and not from intelligence the very tiny dogs of all mean on the left uh is intelligence if we can trust is data if we can present the it's quite reassuring they basically saying that we are mostly dealing with enforcement in Europe or involuntary and not wave at big scandals like an estate but that's all what they declare what begins to us um and we cannot have the guarantee that something is not even at the height of the same questions asked to uh to to to to public authorities gave us as I said before singer result but the big question mark comes from the fact that police refused to the data so we could only interpret this correlation from just comparing the numbers that in both cases the about intelligence we had quite small number is not the big numbers we we expected or we feared that we might we might have that but interestingly enough it where it was deemed images of the there's more data when asked them bullets well
OK so we get some numbers and it was quite exciting process of collecting it underlies again discovering how many obstacles the were inside of this process but do we really understand the world better having these numbers for me this little experiment was all the more interesting that I came to conclusion that not treating we still obviously with who don't have the acquired that the answers to the most relevant questions the same ones that I asked when we were still in the jungle we still don't know what's happening behind the scenes what's uh why why these people are asking why these authorities are asking this question how deep this this this this questions go inside of our privacy uh what what kind of cooperation mechanism mechanisms are behind all this was secret all this was refused to us by both the companies and and the public authorities so my point is that we shouldn't we need a we shouldn't we let them fall us with the numbers we shouldn't really feel much more comfortable having all these names of programs use by NSA having all these numbers that are cops coming up from various prosperous reports or collecting these numbers ourselves because the key questions are still hidden from I therefore our reports the 1 that I give here our focus is less on data and more on the problems the problems that we actually know we have known that before we know that now and they don't change that don't reading since I started my work in this field and when I speak to all the public's they also talk about the same about lack of oversight lack of mechanism that would allow our citizens verify whether we are under surveillance lack of mechanisms that that enable parliamentarian parliamentarian in the Commission's or or decays data protection authorities or ombudsman or anybody else go inside of this various metrics to check what's going on there this is something that has to be repaired not only Europe but but but you they also look hot interesting look for that can be used and abused not only by state but also by private actors I'm sure that you heard of copyright strolling or maybe even you received letters from from from law firms that claim that you downloaded illegally or allegedly you don't know that something illegal from the neck and on the basis of of your and the number declined it you should you should pay the money this is all done on the basis of these data and the simple and use police and prosecution to get this sort of data but in the end users and then use this data in order to blackmail us into paying money to shouldn't and so all these same are missing and this is something we have to face as citizens not getting stuck with the numbers and and and the the nice the circuit you can you can do with them so the question that I want to ask you basically these are there any real solutions that we can think of together where do we start when renders because guidance for this conference the organizer said solutions as something we look for of course but this is the trick is issue had does anyone have the answer this is this is this is tricky isn't it so maybe this is the time where we could talk if we still have some time where do we start the we set of companies to expect more from companies more transparency less cooperation may be less data collection to 1st this or do we set of gender your governments can we change the do you think that if we change governments along forcement and intelligence will stop working the way it works now will be more transparent or is it something that doesn't it regardless of political power would do things I invited to judge this is your time no thank you and the native target see also political yeah comments please yeah at but is it's got a lot of this is my 1 of the the the on yes that the end yeah can you hear me yes it is great and I think it's a good I think it's own probably too late to to to get all the data
but because it's already in the wild as it's called so I think we as the public should demand for the data to be alone to be to be made open so we can see them and read them and maybe some influence what is done with them I see another problem there and that is not only the collection of data but what you can do with the data you know all the all the reasons that many companies all of the governments of other organizations have developed developed to work with our data and I really don't know what and I don't even know what to ask for about this this kind of stuff but I think the 1st step should be that that everybody should publish which data they had that is something that we that we may be after work on foreign and you also or as soldiers or you know publishers whatever yeah I think it's interesting comment that there is even this concept of fighting surveillance with more transparency and here we have now is interesting point of view and there's even this concept of fighting surveillance with more data I mean if everybody would give everybody knows basically everything about everybody that we might have less of a method with less power more power balance such as I do want to some extent I like this idea and I think we should always and therefore I'm speaking today about this particular topic would always demand more transparency from those who have the doughnuts that goes without saying there is because this is the only way for us to discover potential abuses of potential problems the heat in there but where there always transparency would help the process that you're not sure will always have much less ability to do with the they didn't say that Google or NSA or any other government and therefore this is only a theoretical balance it everybody knows every everything right the processing power and the algorithm we have at hand the d d do do for by canadian yes OK I can do this on the other hand thank you Sir raising these issues and giving a talk of of a preacher I've got 1 comment on and I'm coming from a from a slightly different angle rather than demand that we demand transparency I don't think the nature of modern information storage and slow allows for that anymore and what I mean by that use motif so now I want to offer they want to churned out so they want to analyze that they wanted to BigData pose a large assumptions being made in all sorts of areas so I don't think demands of transparencies are going to work anymore but on the positive side I'd like to start to suggest an alternative but this is going to involve a cultural Chang 1 of the things we should start thinking about is everyone is going to have to start to be an excuse and that of their own private files they're going to have to be there on top some managers and I I like the idea of sleeping technology around and enabling units from the media revolutions with PCs allowing everyone to right so now everyone can be their own security infrastructure as well as in the corporations to hide these databases from the people and suddenly applied what analysis analyses they do so 1 interesting project and might be related as well that he is open source is a project called multi go multi go use it out and you have you may have heard of it right fantastic it's a data analysis engine I promote everyone to start analyzing . themselves in other words I wonder whether there is a cultural change issues that can happen in the way that we handle and manage our own information and start to search back and correlate back out so in the way that we can we will never have the resources to the inside individually and we will never have the resources of large governments with a good or bad in nature but maybe maybe if we just realized what we can do both individually and collectively you gotta management at so we can start to address some of these so you would go off for individuals with it is rather than trying to change the law or introduce largely individuals and groups I think because you know you are like some of the other topics in this conference from crowdfunding to others individuals doing this and starting to go down this journey starting to slow to track through that wilderness at least realize how siloed thinking about set up I come there may be other measures as well that's what I want you to know summarize it doesn't any longer I would never ever make the point of transparency sold the fake I even somehow attacked this this this that having 1 data so as any other problem because he does not we do need in my opinion we did involve we need a strong legal the 1 so legal solutions that would prevent the abuses from happening and bring more transparency bras but that's because the state or or companies doing for us but on the other hand I'm constantly with you on that page We should work individually but that's say j can do when we're just thinking about BGP make the this is the kind of tactic that I use presently and I recommend everybody to use because there is no other way nobody will do it for us that's for sure any further comments yes hello my name is mike I'm from Poland and about that transparency voice and and I was the word I would just like to say something about using the word transparency with regard to private data this feels really weird with this thing sort of thing that we should not use the word transparency in the context of our private data transparent were transparency in the work of accountability are extremely important in the context of the government in the context of in the context of institutions in the context of corporations in the context of anything that is the powerful and and Institute in institutionalized right but as soon as we start using the word transparency or accountability in with the with regard to private data we're starting to muddy the waters between 2 different discussions between discussion of a being able to hold accountable institutions corporations governments etc. and a discussion of past being able to defend ourselves against those kinds of entities right so I would the new and this is something that shows up sometimes and I'm I'm I'm not saying that the that it was I mean it was on purpose of course right but I'm just I'm just saying that we should be very careful not to not to muddy the waters and makes the 2 discussions because there very different and if if we let those 2 discussions makes we will learn that will will end up in a situation where we where we will not be able to argue that in either of those discussions the way we would want right is the way that would make our private data data data private and on the other hand that would make a corporate government etc. data available for us to look into and make those to make their decisions made reactions transparent thank you can I think about thanks for the comments I was a child I'm really really sorry I have all this 1 was question there was another 1 but we have a problem that right now the next maybe in the next in the next session will you be here on the dataset and then define that would take at the guy with really and really I'm very sorry I'm really sorry for this because it's really do not all attentiveness incredible so I think you are you are still here and you want to say too good be something to the listeners and so you you might many hours of questions outside and I'm going to the reader and the answer was a mercenary sitting behind this if you feel like taking them off and then all of them all lined still available but because of the gravity wave and the interest thank you so much for the good discussion how
would you do
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Why should you know who has been asking about you?
Serientitel re:publica 2014
Anzahl der Teile 126
Autor Szymielewicz, Katarzyna
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/33357
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2014
Sprache Englisch

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract If you want to know what state knows about you and why so much, then we have something in common. In the post-Snowden world we became well aware that data we store on servers belonging to private companies tends to have a second life. It is where secret services and law enforcement meet the Internet. How to prevent bulk transfers from private to public data bases? How to make sure that due process is in place? What do we know about disclosures of our data and how can we learn more?

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