How do You Buy a Blogger? – Blogger Relations from a Global Perspective
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Data acquisitionFinitary relationPerspective (visual)VideoconferencingStatement (computer science)BitMoment (mathematics)Numeral (linguistics)General relativityNumberExpert systemInternetworkingInformation technology consultingWater vaporTerm (mathematics)Multiplication signClient (computing)Electronic mailing listBlock (periodic table)BlogRule of inferenceCodeLevel (video gaming)LiquidUniqueness quantificationSpeech synthesisComputer animationLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Euler anglesDisk read-and-write headBlock (periodic table)Right angleContent (media)Exclusive orBlogMaxima and minimaTerm (mathematics)Traffic reportingProjective planeClient (computing)HypermediaEndliche ModelltheorieIndependence (probability theory)NumberWeb pageQuicksortCommunications systemInformationNormal (geometry)Video game consoleAreaLattice (order)Regulator geneWeightMultiplication signEvent horizonProper mapStatement (computer science)BitCellular automatonInformation technology consultingDigitizingFigurate numberField (computer science)2 (number)Fitness functionMeeting/Interview
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Block (periodic table)HypermediaPhysical systemMereologyTelecommunicationProjective planeClient (computing)BlogLecture/Conference
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Logical constantSpacetimeWordPhysical lawDependent and independent variablesDigitizingGeneral relativityBlogService (economics)Data structureField (computer science)Execution unitRational numberMetropolitan area networkLoginSoftware testingLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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HypermediaPhysical lawInteractive televisionMultiplication signGodBlogInformationCASE <Informatik>Workstation <Musikinstrument>Self-organizationFormal languageProteinGeneral relativityLine (geometry)Real numberProduct (business)Cellular automatonPoint (geometry)Negative numberWeb pageDependent and independent variablesSystem callShared memory40 (number)Image registrationIntegrated development environmentProcedural programmingSoftware testingInternetworkingWordElectronic mailing listMeeting/Interview
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Message passingSearch engine (computing)Price indexBit rateClient (computing)Block (periodic table)Analytic setService (economics)BlogGoogolGeneral relativityRaw image formatComputer programmingReal numberProduct (business)Lecture/Conference
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Endliche ModelltheorieProduct (business)QuicksortCellular automatonMultiplication signPosition operatorLevel (video gaming)MeasurementProjective planeFeedbackDemosceneWritingBlogSound effectHypermediaNP-hardMeeting/Interview
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Lattice (order)Table (information)Projective planeCellular automatonSmartphoneBlogGeneral relativityQuicksortExpert systemIntegrated development environmentHypermediaNetwork topologyProduct (business)TwitterLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Arithmetic meanClient (computing)Perspective (visual)Perfect groupFreewareNumbering schemeWave packetFamilyGroup actionBlock (periodic table)Multiplication signInternetworkingElectronic program guidePhase transitionContent (media)BlogConnected spaceEndliche ModelltheorieCountingWorkstation <Musikinstrument>WhiteboardSet (mathematics)DialectOnline-MedienBitLecture/Conference
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BlogCircleClient (computing)Data structureContent (media)Connected spaceLine (geometry)Block (periodic table)SoftwareSummierbarkeitGreatest elementLevel (video gaming)Logical constantMeeting/Interview
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Data acquisitionLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:20
Good morning, everybody. My name is Enduro Meinen. I work as a freelance consultant for blogger relations and some other internet stuff, for example, democracy, liquid democracy and such things. And some of my work I do for Achtung, a PR agency situated in Hamburg in Munich.
00:44
And there I do as a kind of consultancy for consultants, and most of the time when it comes to blogger relations at Achtung, I get involved in any way.
01:02
And when I started working with Achtung, of course, I got confronted with some of the annoying questions, for example, can I have a list of 50 bloggers writing about pink elephants?
01:21
And of course, all of these bloggers should have a good reach. And the best would be they would be situated kind of south of Munich or so. Or another question, how much budget do I need to get 20 million unique visitors through blocks?
01:45
And to make one thing clear, of course, these questions are annoying. But on the other hand, I think it's not a critique, because many of the stuff that's going on around blogger relations is like this. So it's not a surprise that clients and also consultants think that blogger relations
02:07
could be something like this. But after some time, I asked myself the question, if it wouldn't be a good idea to
02:20
set up a little paper with rules to spread it in the agency or also to our clients, just to make clear how we at Achtung would like to work with bloggers in the future. And then I asked Wolfgang if he thinks this is a good idea.
02:42
And he said, yes, it's a good idea, but let's spread it to everyone so that everyone knows how Achtung thinks about blogger relations and everyone can discuss this. We had a lot of discussions on this paper. We call it our blogger codex.
03:02
And most of the reaction to our codex was quite positive. But of course, we want to get better. And so we thought it might be a good idea to discuss it here at Republica, where, of course, many people are deeply involved into blogging. And many people are quite a little bit more critical on all these questions.
03:28
And so I pitched two panels for Republica, one in German. That should have been for me, because I don't like speaking English in front of such a big audience. And another panel with international guests.
03:43
And of course, Republica chose the international one. And the original idea was to have someone from the UK here, Marshall Munson, who unfortunately couldn't make it. Someone from Russia, Olga, who couldn't leave the country at the moment.
04:03
And so she sent us a video statement. And then we have Vanessa and Wolfgang on stage. And because we only have two experts today, we thought it might be a good idea to change the panel into a fishbowl. So for this, who doesn't know what a fishbowl means?
04:25
Okay, so I have to say something about that. You see our two experts, they will stay on stage for the next hour. And we have two empty chairs. And when we start with the fishbowl after the first statements, someone from the audience
04:44
can come to the stage and take one of the seats and make a statement on the discussion. And if anyone from you wants to make an additional statement, he can take the empty chair on the stage. But then the other one has to leave so that there is, again, an empty chair.
05:04
And so we can change the people discussing on stage about the topic. Any other question on that? No? Thank you. Nice. So let's have a start. I think we start with a statement of Wolfgang and then another statement from Vanessa.
05:22
Then we show the video from Olga Rasulova from Russia. And then let's start with the fishbowl. Have fun. Thank you, Jeroen. Well, yeah. How to buy a blogger. We definitely choose this a little bit provocative title for that, because as you all know, and
05:45
some of you might know that I've been around as a blogger as well for some time now, buying a blogger has always been a little bit a fun topic among bloggers, of course. And so the main question we face if we are working together with bloggers, be it
06:08
in the marketing space, be it in the PR space, we call it micro-audience outreach, is how to work with people who are not doing publishing for a living but publishing for fun, let's
06:25
say, and who have no organization behind them to cover their costs, for example, or to help them make a living from whatever they do. What's kind of different to, let's say, traditional media and us working in agencies, because
06:42
we get paid for what we're doing. So that's a little bit different. So we got over the last 10 years, well, I've been doing blogger relations or working with bloggers since 2004, so mainly about 10 years now.
07:01
And one question that stayed all the time was how could you compensate my time, my efforts, what I'm doing here, how maybe even could I capitalize my audience I've built over the years on one hand, and on the other hand, our, let's say, industry rules or industry
07:27
codexes who, well, demand us to be fully transparent about, let's say, payments or involvement or whatsoever. And this sometimes is a little bit clash of cultures on the one hand and on the financial
07:46
side and also on expectation side. So what am I able to expect from bloggers if I'm doing outreach programs, for example, and what should bloggers expect from professionals on the communication side if they do outreach.
08:04
And so our idea was mainly to be fully transparent for both sides, for our clients and our consultants, and on the other hand, for the bloggers as well, about what to expect and how we would love to work with them.
08:22
And, well, we thought a little bit about it, especially in this, and this is why it's called how to buy a blogger, especially in this compensation thing, because it's kind of difficult. Just to give you an example, if we are doing an event, for example, and invite
08:43
bloggers and journalists, journalists normally don't get paid for that, often don't want to get paid for, let's say, commodities and travel costs and so on. Sometimes they want, but sometimes they don't want to be paid for that. But they have an organization that is paying for their time, often, especially if journalists
09:05
are part of an organization. But most bloggers do this in their spare time. So they can't do consulting in this time. They can't do what they're doing for a living anyway in this time.
09:20
So a little bit, a question that often arises is could a blogger, for example, afford attending an event? Because they are amateurs and they want to do that. So we often get questions on what do I get, although you don't know what I will be
09:42
doing. And this is kind of difficult for our clients, maybe, because if they pay money, they tend to want a little bit more control about what is happening here, especially if they are not from the PR side but from the marketing side of the table.
10:01
This is one question and the other is if we invite, for example, bloggers to write text for us, to be part of a bigger blogging project. We often get the feedback from bloggers if we do outreach programs that they are kind of surprised that we are offering real money if they want to participate in such
10:27
a program. So obviously, there's some misunderstanding in the industry, at least, that bloggers might do, let's say, a 300 or 400-word article, essay for, let's say, 50 euros or 20 or whatever.
10:48
And while our goal was to really set the stage for being a little bit more professional if we work together with you guys, together with our clients, and really have, let's
11:06
say, a set of possibilities how to work and how to pay for good work. Because we believe in good work needs good pay and good salary, maybe. And so we came up with some ideas that are quite familiar to everyone.
11:24
So if someone writes on, let's say, a publication of one of our clients, of course, he or she gets paid. And some other compensation models. For example, we started to buy publishing rights on articles bloggers had on their own
11:41
blogs. Not exclusive publishing rights, but just the right to use the content a blogger produces on their own for their own blog for another purpose, for example, for internal use or for clipping reports or whatsoever.
12:00
So this was a second possibility on this. And of course, we strongly feel that if someone wants to attend, for example, an audience on an event or whatever, maybe we should even pay for the time they are spending
12:23
with us, not for the content, but for the time they are spending with us. And if they do consulting and if they develop stories, of course, we treat them like freelancers and like freelance consultants if they want to work with us. Although we always want full transparency on that.
12:44
Maybe that's for the first statement. It's a little bit too long. Sorry, Vanessa. Maybe you might join in and tell a little bit what you are doing in Italy and maybe introduce yourself. Nice to meet you all. I am Vanessa Garmicino from Italy and I work for a social media agency called Agacure.
13:07
We are both in Milan in Rome and Agacure has been born 80 years ago. So it's 80 years that we work with bloggers and managing communities online. Before I was working traditional PR and then I switched to the digital world.
13:24
But I am online since the early 90s, I've been blogging, I've been doing everything. So it's a world I know quite well. And I should just say that I agree with you. And it's a sort of consolation that we face the same issues in Italy and here.
13:45
It's not a happy consolation obviously. What we try to do is to have always a professional approach and to be clear, to be fair and to be transparent too. In Italy too there is no code, no regulation, nothing that says us how to deal with bloggers.
14:10
What we try to do is to create editorial projects that involves blogger too. And what we know is that we can try to mediate between bloggers approach and clients
14:26
needings and requests. So the thing we try to do is to compensate bloggers with sometimes access to special contents, sometimes refunding them for the travel or effort they've done.
14:43
Sometimes creating real projects, editorial one and so giving them real money. And that's obviously decided with the clients and then explained to the bloggers. And the main things it was, I understand when you say we choose provocative titles
15:06
because when I read the title I just thought, really you can buy a blogger? Because you know, it depends. That's what I'm saying because I'm trying to switch on the other side and think also
15:26
not just the agency or the client approach. Client has to be educated. In Italy we've got a complex and quite traditional communication system. You know we've got still register for journalist that gives them duties and also privileges.
15:44
But I'm trying to switch from the blogger perspective. So what I see sometimes is that blogger, we've got blog stars and in Italy there are blog stars especially in the fashion fields that they've got their own agency.
16:07
And so you have an agency working in social media and you have to deal with another agency that is working for the blogger. And that's a quite strange situation and because they are no more just blogger, they are public
16:22
figures something like that. And then you've got normal bloggers like I was with my three readers but very interested, very passionate and bloggers want to be critical, want to be independent are more opinionist than editorialist sometimes.
16:41
So I also think how want a blogger to be perceived from his audience. I wanted to show that I'm paid and that's also a question because the general public, the audience could think that I'm paid and so I'm not more independent in my thoughts.
17:07
And that's another side of the question. But we have to be, to go forward I think it's such as, I don't know when you think about native advertising and so we can think about contents that are built and created
17:26
and thought with a concept that it's fitting in the blog and the blogger's attitude. And maybe I said too much and I'm not so clear for my English.
17:40
Well if I may ask a question about blogs in Italy. Some years back when I was more involved in this cultures all over Europe I had the impression that while social media and online activism and so on was not so elaborated
18:01
in Italy, are blogs a really profound part of the media system in Italy now and are your clients and you using them as a let's say traditional part of communication approach? Yes, they are gaining importance, they are getting even more important and if you
18:27
think to a PR project you have to think about everything from newspaper to blog. And you have also to consider that in Italy there is a deep cries of the system, I mean
18:41
the communication one, not just the political everything because you know lots of paper publication are shutting down, journalists are not get paid, young people that want to work in a classic journal we can say have no space to work and very often they
19:03
are not paid or paid really a little and so lots of them are switching to the internet, to the web as a possibility and so blogging is a possibility but it's also a threat and
19:21
so it's quite complex context and bloggers and blogging is becoming even more important obviously we've got also this political situation so through the web it has become a protagonist and so yeah, Houston.
19:45
Maybe we should bring in Olga's statement, I don't know if, will you do it, okay great, because I saw it up front of course and what I think is interesting is how huge Russia
20:01
is always of course and how huge the online space in Russia and the blogosphere in Russia is and how challenging the actual situation right now is, let's have a word. Hi, I'm from Russia and I'm responsible for digital marketing in consumer and lifestyle
20:27
sector, what about blogs, we have, hi, I'm Olga Rasulova, I'm working in Philips, in Philips Russia and I'm responsible for digital marketing in consumer and lifestyle
20:44
sector, what about blogs, we have a million of them, I suppose there are more than 40 million blogs in Russia but they are not very active and not all of them are alive,
21:04
so I suppose, why I'm saying I suppose, because recently Yandex service in Russia which counted blogosphere in Russia closed service because of new law that was signed
21:24
by our president on the 5th of May. Regarding the blogger relations and brands, in Philips we have our guidelines, according to them we don't pay bloggers, we give
21:44
them the products not money for their reviews, so we are providing with them test drives and we appreciate the positive and negative responses and reviews, so our policy is to
22:09
monitor blogosphere to select very accurately the relevant bloggers to our products and to suggest them for test drives our devices and to listen to their suggestions and to
22:36
even suggest to improve some tiny interesting features and so in this fruitful cooperation
22:51
we are working for several years. In near future I suppose it could become an issue because of the new law which our president signed on the 5th of May this year and this
23:16
law would equate blogger to media and regulate the bloggers activity in Russian Internet.
23:26
So, according to this law all bloggers which daily audience is more than 3000 or more users should go through special procedure of registration which is controlled by government
23:43
organisation to double check their information before publishing and to delete posts in case it seems to be unchecked, not to spread slander, porn, government secrets and even not to use obscene language. By the way, recently Putin signed the law of forbidding obscene
24:03
language in all media, so logically as bloggers now are equated to media they should avoid dirty words in their posts and even to control their commenters. To publish their real names and contact information on the main page of their blogs
24:26
it's not the whole list of all points of the law, what they should do, but the
24:45
famous and very popular bloggers with whom we are working now are becoming the media and their law about the media now applies to these bloggers and of course a lot of
25:09
restrictions and a lot of these things can influence on these bloggers to be or not
25:31
to be. But according to this law all bloggers which daily audience is 3000 or more users
25:40
or more can place the advertisements in their blogs and to get all benefits from it. So answering the question how to buy a blogger in Russia since the 1st of August 2014 we
26:05
can do it efficiently. Thank you for your attention. So a very different let's say environment for blogs especially, I was really astonished
26:22
about the number, so 3000 daily visitors is enough to apply full censorship on blogs in Russia right now. What is kind of scaring I guess. Okay. I think we open up right now if you want to, so if anyone wants to join and tell
26:45
about their let's say experience maybe in Germany or in other countries in Europe or whatever come up, Oliver I guess is already raising his hand, maybe you just come up here and you've already set the stage for that so whoever wants to join just come
27:06
in as well. So Oliver Gassner I guess, I don't know if everyone knows him but you are saying experience as well from both sides I guess. Yeah right, that's the funny thing from both sides so I both get approached by PR
27:22
agencies recently by Achtung which was great but it's not an advertising thing and like being an official blogger at conferences like this that cost like 10 times the fee that I also wouldn't be able to afford like Le Web or yeah be at company events
27:49
like with Salesforce, I see Micah there in spite of all the light but I also did blogger projects where I was the person organizing blogger relations like Jure does or you do
28:04
and that was a European experience, we went to Greece and you must know Germans are totally Greece fans but the culture is somewhat different, for example when then the first
28:22
project was all Greek people, a guy who grew up in Vienna but is in core Greek and if they say oh was everything fine then the German will say oh everything was totally great but yeah and then they try to give really positive feedback, they say you could
28:43
improve there and then the Greek guy goes huh, yeah because that's not what a guest does, it's not that they blog it, they don't say oh the car broke down or they say the car broke down but then they say but we got a new car really, really quickly
29:01
yeah that was okay then but if you give verbal feedback of the records then there are misunderstandings or the second project was also in Greece, it was both tourism projects and five star hotels and there the team was a German woman living in Greece and a Greek guy who
29:23
grew up in Germany and that was a totally different project because they organised it, we knew what was happening when and it wasn't like now we are riding through the island for two hours to spread everybody to their hotels, yeah everything was done in a very
29:43
efficient way and we had less culture clashes there and it was much easier to say come on yeah or I could tell the others okay this car broke down but please yeah it wasn't the fault of our inviteers and so on. There are some learnings from the projects
30:06
I did, first learning is no matter how well you know the people if you're personally involved right now I'm at the point where I'll only invite people I know who are in some way socially connected to me because as a blogger relations organiser because there
30:27
are always situations where you have to have a private word but no matter how well you know the people there'll always be a guy who doesn't blog, a blogger who doesn't
30:42
blog for whatever reason or he does a first post and a second post and if you're there for five days and nothing else will come after that because he's too busy because he got ill because there was stress because yeah and I tell that to my clients I tell them
31:00
I can't guarantee that every one of them will produce a certain volume. The second thing is that is connected to this if you do a project like with travelling or at an event give them space and time to blog, give them access, if you're in Greece you need
31:21
mobile access because you want to also do foursquare and all the other stuff it's silly if you don't have that. We didn't have that in the first project and it got much less buzz. The second thing is give them time to blog yeah maybe even designate say okay you've got two or three hours of time where you can look through your photos
31:46
and upload them and where you can write a little blog article and so on and so on. Doesn't help if they drag you into a disco till four o'clock in the morning and then in the next morning at eight o'clock they start the next ride because when you're
32:01
a zombie it's really hard to blog. I still did it but it was hard. A little summary. I'm just a platzhalter. I just wanted to say if you want to say something just line up because that's like the fishbowl moment. I mean Oliver surely could say something
32:25
more cool things one two three four ten minutes but if you have to want to say something this is the free space so always come up and signal with your upcoming that you are awake because it's still early I know and you want to say something like you welcome
32:42
and yeah we do male female you know I got the message fine thank you. Welcome Kirsten. So thank you Oliver and just a little bit more housekeeping so this is your time to leave the stage to be honest just just laugh.
33:04
Okay so I'm Kirsten. Hello. My question is what's in it for your clients in blogger relations? What's the success measures that you have if there are so and so many blog posts or do they see more sales or do they see more articles or and are these blogger relations
33:25
do you have some blogger relations only campaigns or are they always complementing some other campaigns in traditional media or whatever? Would you like to start? Okay first thing I'd like to add something to what Oliver said and it's when I when I
33:47
first said we try to create projects that evolve around bloggers and this mediating between clients request and bloggers attitude it was what he said so you cannot just think
34:04
I invite them and let's come and see and do your post blogs you have to create something to get the interest in because bloggers usually do it for passion and so you have to feed this passion and create events and think about how to have access how to
34:24
have a connection how to have space time and also access to content but also to devices and that's what I want to add. You asked if sometimes we just work in social media
34:43
so our blogger campaign are always think and as a concept for bloggers sometimes we work with the also PR agency or the PR agency or the press office of the client and do
35:03
things together but we tend to create something special for bloggers and why do your clients want to do it what do they see in it? Okay because they want visibility and breath awareness and space for their products or for their declaration or want to be visible
35:25
that's why and so you can measure it in post you can measure it in building a relation what I want to say also is that it's not only just to have a post from a blogger sometimes we think bigger sometimes we try to think bigger in a different way and it's
35:46
a matter of engaging communities for example for a telco company very important in Italy we used to give to bloggers the possibility to ask on their blogs some special events
36:01
in streaming and that's a nice opportunity for our clients but also for the blogger because the blogger gives to his audience the possibility to see a special event we are it's a part of our cultural project and so it gives to quality content to its
36:23
audience and the clients has got this visibility so it's a win-win situation. This is your question is one reason why we for example often don't speak about blogger relations but on micro audience engagement so what we see that our clients get from
36:47
blogger relations or for engaging bloggers is well access and visibility in a highly engaged micro audience because most of these blogs don't reach let's say millions of people
37:01
so reach is normally not a real performance indicator for programs. Also because you don't know it also because you don't know the real reach it's not so easy to know the real reach of a blogger at least the blogger says to you it's Google
37:20
Analytics but I don't know if. One is visibility in search engines and in specialized searches let's say so we have a very precise target audience often a lot of bloggers have their own audience they are confronting with our messages or products or whatsoever and the other is setting the
37:50
stage for let's say perception, perception beyond bloggers as well. Maybe I might explain it with one project we did last year for a Swiss brand, where
38:06
we sent out a lot of let's say gifts to bloggers who have been around for several times and well restating the claim of Overmaltina that everything goes better and you are able
38:24
to do it longer with Overmaltina so bloggers who have been around just to say thank you to them and just to establish a relationship with them and the positive side effect was
38:40
a lot of buzz in social media and the perception let's say in the scene of food journalists that Overmaltina is kind of cool in this in-crowd so it's not about reach normally it's not directly about reach but about role models about micro audiences and about
39:01
street credibility what is not really a hard KPI because it's hard to measure what is street credibility but getting feedback from bloggers that they like to work with us and with the brand is something that is really valuable for them.
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Also something else, it depends on the project for example, once I also organized a meeting with the blogger we were 12 around the table to discuss some mobile features of
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a cell phone, a smartphone and we didn't get any we didn't want and we didn't want and we didn't get any post blog or tweet or anything, we just want to know from them what they think about the product because they are influencers and experts and so we
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just sit there in an environment created for them and confront and that's also another way to have a relationship with them. On the other side, sometimes you don't want
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a post you just want a tweet because we have also to think that most of the bloggers also have got a social media audience so for example for Fernando Dito it was a new drink we sent bloggers bottles, we explained them how to prepare their cocktail and so
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we all cheered together on Twitter, they didn't have to do anything but saying cheers and we had a lot of reach on social media. Would you like to introduce yourself briefly maybe so that the audience will get to know
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who we are? Hello, my name is Esther, I am actually from the client's perspective, I am not sure if you are interested but I think it makes sense to also hear the client's perspective. I am working for a regional tourist board in the alpine setting so I travelled a bit here to come up to Berlin. We are working very successfully with bloggers but the question
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is if you have to pay for a blogger is ambiguous to us I think. We think bloggers are as you said before it's not only the big the audience, the bigger the audience is the better it is of course that also counts for us but I think that bloggers are
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very trustworthy so they are the journalists of the online journalists that are most trusted in of course it's also an SEO topic if our destination is really found through your blogs that's perfect for us. Nevertheless what we do of course is we invite bloggers to experience our destinations for skiing, for hiking, for swimming, whatever you want
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to do. Everything is getting paid so we pay flights, we pay hotels, we pay mountain guides, we do everything possible of course we organise a lot of time for you to write the blogs, we organise the internet connection and everything but then if it comes up to
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paying we are not sure yet. We as a client we are still used to work with journalists I mean it's still an old model but nevertheless and the journalist normally you invite it so he could experience or she could experience but normally you didn't have to pay because he or she got paid by the newspaper, by the magazine, by the TV station whoever and
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now this ambiguous situation comes up that you invite people that they can experience what we have to give you so you can have good experience in our destination and then you are asked also on our money for it so we are still a little bit hesitant if you can accept it or not. We understand your situation of course you spend your time
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you come over you spend mostly your free time if it's on a weekend but on the other hand we also have the feeling do we pay then for the content? Are you then trustworthy if we pay you? So this is a question maybe you can answer for us.
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Maybe you can answer for us. Just introduce yourself briefly. For me it is a very interesting session because I'm also on both sides I've been blogging for ages and I've been asked for social media consulting and when you describe
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your blogger codex and you too how transparent this must be and describe different projects that sounded excellent and I thought well there really is hope for this kind of communications and maybe companies are getting it and then you came up with the over-maltine example
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and I said no they don't because that was a very in this case I was on the blogger side and when the parcel came up my blog is four spires in Plata DE it treats amongst other things food and I'm one of those food bloggers who do who bake their own bread
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who are interested in how things are done who go down to the basics of food production and I opened the parcel because it was from Achtung Wolfgang and I have been on in the same corner of the internet for some time and it started the same day blogging to be honest yeah and because it came from the company I knew you were with I opened
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it and expected something thoughtful and it was a parcel full of industrially produced shit and somebody tried to say thank you to me with this it was like sending Horovitz
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a CD with Richard Kleiderman music to say thank you for your work I felt insulted and I know many other food bloggers who felt the same so there might be the possibility that the the success the things that you count as success are just the freeloaders who are
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prepared to take up every anything that they don't have to pay for and write whatever they are expected to just the possibility interesting yeah you know normally you at maximum get
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these kinds of feedback on the telephone and it's it's quite it's quite challenging to get that on stage because but but if you're going into the public space so this is exactly what we want to yeah so um hi I'm Lars I maybe bring the I don't look like it but the old
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economy into the game I'm working as social media manager for Allianz and we have a dilemma with blogger relations because in our code of conduct for work with journalists the first rule
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is we never pay for coverage and now facing the bloggers and knowing that they don't have the money the backing of the big of the big publishing houses in their back we stand
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there and we don't know what we should do actually because if we pay for bloggers and we would compromise our biggest rule that we have but if we don't pay for bloggers which
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we don't do so far we don't reach those niches that we should probably reach so I think the old economy probably has quite a big problem with that we don't have sexy products that we can send to the bloggers which we would consider paying as well also so we have a big dilemma
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there for for us well yeah I personally see this as well I think the the biggest dilemma is to distinguish between those who just want want big money to pay big money yeah just for the for
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the sake of getting paid and those who are really interested in having a conversation but just asking for kind of a compensation for their for the time or work and what what we are
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trying to do here is to make clear for what we are paying so that we are not paying for content for example just take a seat just not paying for content for example but paying for time for ideas or for the right to republish things I think that we need kind of kind of ideas how
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to how to deal with our industry code codex codices and the needs of bloggers so this is this is one reason why why we came up with let's let's try to do at least three or four models for for
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bringing money on the table without compromising them and without compromising our ethical approach to communication how are you doing it's not much as a matter of having it's also a matter of finding the right target between bloggers and maybe it's the answer also to the
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question before for me in this if you that's why agency like us exist you should know the girl you should know what they want what they think what the which are their approach their
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attitude and probably you you will find someone who is really interested in what you are even if not it is not sexy as you said and and so you can give them something that it's interesting
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usable useful for for them and it's the same when you talk with food bloggers and you had to know very well very deeply what they think and want and and then also please I know that
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one of the hardest thing is to explain to the client so maybe that you cannot have a list of thirty hundred bloggers because there are not thirty hundred bloggers interested in it's a quite different from traditional PR where you have a wider range of possibility while you have to
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it's like being a craftsman no you have to create the things and make it so sharp and perfect that's it for the blogger and then it will be a win situation thanks hello hello I'm Michael
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Michael tutorials I do things on the internet basically on YouTube and my opinion is it's a topic of three things like distance support and collaboration and I think talking about distance
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I recently did something at the South by Southwest conference with a with an airline so we made a YouTube show there and the airline was a supporter for this so we got back up from the airline but it wasn't like could you please talk about this could you talk about that could you talk about our product it was just support so we couldn't do everything what we wanted to
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do on our own we just had a little backup and that's what I what I what I always say if you see it from the PR perspective in the past it was like how can we support journalists to do their journalism how can we support journalists to do their work and it's also the same for the blogger perspective how can we support bloggers to cover things they want to cover and not to
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cover things we want them to cover so the second thing is collaboration for talking about aliens why don't you start not thinking about how bloggers can write about your products but maybe you can invite products to write for your magazines maybe you can create an own magazine
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and a kind of a collaboration where you talk about the future of insurance companies and things like that and the third thing is the support and that's what Oliver customer said you need to support bloggers with the infrastructure maybe you Wi-Fi on the go and things like that so my
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opinion just the three topics and I'm leaving distance how much distance can we have to bloggers how much distance should we should we keep can we also keep the distance by just letting them do what they want to do but gaining traffic on their blocks that's also okay so distance
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collaboration and support thank you hello my name is Marie Christine Schindler I run a little PR agency and I run my blog as well I just had a very spontaneous idea and international as well as here from Switzerland yes I'm from Switzerland can't tell you a lot about or not not here
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to tell you a lot about Swiss scene but I just had a quite spontaneous idea which runs into the direction what he just heard at the address of audience if you can't play pay the bloggers in money you can try to pay them in reach like things like Daimler or DHL they do it with
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social publish so being audience you do have a certain reach you do you well known why don't you offer the bloggers a stage where they can publish their things thank you thank you
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alright because I heard a lot of things how you work with professionals or already elaborated and situated bloggers what I all because I learned from you I worked with him and I get to work with bloggers who really just started blogging they're very young and they don't know how to write when when they get paid they don't know what to write down so I can pay them so
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basically what I say is often we forget that we need to explain the bloggers how they can work with us so especially the beginners and the video bloggers the youtubers because it's really rising with them you need to kind of teach them how they can work professionally with an agency
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or no company so how do you do you have this problem so already or how do you face this problem would you like should I you mean educate them yeah basically yes don't know it's not so
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easy that's the answer obviously it happens while working and most of the time what we see
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is we are the bloggers we are the agency stay everybody ask this one rules and don't try to be but this is what I mean build build a relationship and it's in its time in its time and finally
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you you get it and sometimes you make little mistakes and that that's the main problem you make little mistakes sending a product to the wrong blogger or inviting the wrong one to to an event and the reaction is always a little bit tough and sometimes they use it to spread the
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world through their social networks and I think you you have just to establish the relation and it's not a matter of educating from the top-down in a top-down model but to work together I really
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agree with the I don't know the name of the guy with a hat when he said distance but in the same time collaborate and give possibility the only thing I see your point is that sometimes we
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need to think about what they are doing and maybe explain to some of the younger and not to experience bloggers especially what consequences it might have what they are trying to do here so as especially we as we are in this industry and in this micro audience outreach for for
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several years now have seen a lot of a lot of things going wrong and a lot of things not not fully disclosed for example and so on and I would say it's not it's not about what could you do but what should you think of and this is I think for us as professionals this is part
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of our job as well too because we are working as especially if we are working with amateurs not all bloggers are amateurs but there are some amateurs as well and working with amateurs is not always easy for professionals because most of the professionals who are doing outreach
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and I used to work with professionals so I'm not they are not thinking about these the the way amateurs are thinking and this is again distance and support so this this bottom-up approach to have a little bit at least a little bit empathy about what what they are doing and
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what their job in this relationship might be I would fully support that hello and I think this is maybe the last participant in our fishbowl hello my name is Diana I'm working for unruly media and we're an international tech company and I work directly with bloggers and
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we obviously pay them to distribute our commercials or commercials by our brands or by our clients but also I am a blogger myself and I would like to make hopefully a connection between the men with a hat who I would really like to know the name again mission Michael so I think what he
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said was really spot-on and what you said with the bottom-up is spot-on as well I think when I work with bloggers and that are not experienced I really like the freshness and their ideas and they're not like standard and I think sometimes when you work with experienced on professional people you get like something that is so standardized that you just get a couple
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of lines and then no content no fresh content and still I think you need to give them a structure that's what the guy before just said and I once was invited to work with Food Network UK which is a big TV TV show in the UK and they have a big big network and they're
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also in the US and they invited smaller bloggers and to blog for their big block which gave me what Michael just said again traffic so I got something in return and if people weren't given the structure so we're back on the structure they stopped blogging for them or other people who
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were not experienced they didn't get support so they stopped blogging as well because they did blog but it wasn't published so I think it always goes around in circles and I think what we previously heard was absolutely spot-on and that's it I would say because it's 11 o'clock our panel is over thank you very much for participating and that it really worked for the fifth