Crowdsourcing Design: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Crowdsourcing Design: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
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This talk looks at the ethics and aesthetics of the crowdsourcing industry, its dark side and silver linings, with a focus on the crowdsourcing of design. What distinguishes the crowd design from micro tasking? And is crowdsourcing inherently exploitative or can it be done in a way that is sustainable for all stakeholders?
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tation ch here at stage 3 is about crowdsourcing and as you might know crowdsourcing was 1 of the big boss words of the last years accompanied by many hopes for a more democratic products and better working environments I'm always speak here slowly and extend the Schmitz and was a researcher John a list and designer will give us a critical every variation of that concept please welcome him with an official thank you and so common in certain means the so I will speak about the good the bad and the ugly of and crowdsourcing design and and the title is meant to uh can be met in 2 ways so it's about 2 crowdsourcing of design work but also about the way crowdsourcing platforms are designed as systems and and for full disclosure of a background in design but at some point and I turn more towards writing and so in a way I switched from 1 in precarious formal freelancing to another 1 and so on and quite familiar with that's a free labor and the since this is so if the you also have a free labor in the paper that says something very different and using labelled writing because of you will have a chance to to bring your own position across and nobody tells you what to do and that's an important difference crowdsourcing which is defined by you following a brief someone else telling you what to do and so I want to start my presentation with a short fuse of concrete poetry in no worry it's not written by means of and all right easy directed except drastic on the net and grade shattered five-yearly the press extract wiki quick and raising right at the same logic right that they
vary greatly impacted graph and that ends in a collective here that current I need you it can it can and CFX currently there is a click graphic practically can't dating mainly read the painting on the axis of the axis remains a lack of standard really stand out had this Peru review of record vs. Pittsburgh per gram from 2005 and mean find quite interesting because it's about all these tiny microtask that we do all the time on the computer and the idea of the rhetoric surrounding Web 2 . 0 you remember in the old diffuse interstellar of 6 was that you were be about making this smaller contributions of the millions of people matter and to the rest of the power from the few and to have an empowerment of to user and I argue that this whole hasn't and paid out all was in allusion to some extent and maybe in the region that I also fell form and I think the reality is
more like this so you have all the media before 2005 TV stations and so on and sending out there uh content to many residents and then the idea of what we're no worse that you don't have the you anymore but only the community that is helping each other for nothing and crowdsourcing works exactly the opposite way so it's taking the contributions from the menu and privatize them again so of the direction has reversed and in in the research and what I look at the whole models of how computers and people connected in regards to work and I'm quite interested in these all the visions of people like JCR
Licklider's and especially that thing about and who had a very utopian idea of how all labor could be organized with the help of the computer knows it was very much user centered and was very much about empowerment and and but I think that what we experience today and is quite distant from these old visions we and some of them also interested in the structure of power in these systems and and look our how they are constructed with the help of computers and this illustrations from 1965 and it's about the introduction of punch cards in the university and you have this hierarchic structure with capitalist sitting on the top and then in the end of the universe to machines and putting out the students in form of punch cards and and this organ was stoned spindle and dental mutilate me what and to jump forward to what's happening now and
this is a commercial around the for 1 of the big of crowdsourcing platforms for design and the interesting thing is that again you have very much dissimilar similar structure with all these little human QED basically um in this hierarchical structure and somebody at the top of of the mountain sitting and desk controlling everything but this time this is not meant as a criticism of this and graphic but as an advertisement for these platforms and so I'm quite interested in what happens between here and there and they're
essentially and I'm at the point of course is that she the advertising says that you can be the guy on top of the pyramid and letting other people work for you and me I'm also interested in how the crowd as represented and how in the similar hot for example of similarities in this book cover designs we always have the small people running around doing something but you really don't have the feeling of the empowerment of user anymore another interesting aspect about the crowd is how the term is shifted over
time and so so the crowd used to be something like an unruly forces like the rebellion streets and something powerful but uncontrollable and an very much like to come up and and this notion of the crowd has changed a lot after the turn of the century basically and and you look at them all the scholars of the public classics scholars of crowd and especially like good stuff all the guy on top and middle and they introduced the concept of crowd psychology because they like the spectral spectrum on spectral of and democracy was haunting Europe basically and so the people got more power political power and so the question was how to control and the people how to control the crowd and and was continued by people like and Sigmund Freud and and Freud and the ball and agreed on the point that when a human joins the crowd he descendants several rounds and on the ladder of evolution and becomes something animal like and primitive and and definitely and powerful as great as part of a crowd and but also in very and destructive and interestingly that has completely turned so the crowd now is not seen as destructive anymore but as productive and very and guided build and the I find it quite interesting and also learning another and changing the notion is that sound when this whole web 2 . 0 thing was found gathering speed and maybe 8 years ago there was a lot of discussions so revolving around the question of quantity so the argument was that all these on around x bring monkeys and only producing trash and and we have to protect mainstream media are from the and from the cult of the amateur and do we have to in in reinstall the gatekeepers to stop people from producing all the stretch and but I think that I mean this argument is also gone so and it has become clear that the crowd very is very much productive indeed and can produce quality and all the trash doesn't really matter if you if you can search and then extract the the value in and what the crowd produces
so what is crowdsourcing and I really like this illustration of Tom Sawyer who manage to get the crowds or in this case his friends to do the work he was supposed to do for him for free and then so crowdsourcing is a lot about this question of how you can get the job done by other people and it's a lot about making this job look very attractive and in this of Mark Twain & story he managed to even get paid with like sweets and stuff fall because of because it would amended appear so great and so and so difficult and attractive to be allowed to paint defense and crowdsourcing is really an of a method of production and that the only where whether this perceived into various opposing ways so there those people who really pushed a concept and who think that the whole economy has to move more towards the crowdsourcing direction because and as argument goes we as a society on a global scale to deal with such great problems especially environmental issues always come up that we have to all work together and that we cannot trust upon its politicians and so we have to organize and and all work together to create and use this realization and to fix a broken word so that's the rhetoric and and that sense we can replace politics with wiki wikinomics and we are so that's the side and on the opposite side
and all of surprisingly comes from Jimmy Wales for example that crowdsourcing is a viable way to look at the world and it's a business model the tricks people into working for free and determine what that might be a little bit surprising from that side but some the important difference between something like Wikipedia where people also work for free and typical crowdsourcing model is that
on Wikipedia for example people help each other and what they produce is beneficial for using many more people than we than do the production of wine crowdsourcing the results are privatized and only usually only beneficial for those people and doing the crowdsourcing process so it's an extraction of some knowledge of content of of labor basically and um but this term this confusion about what crowdsourcing is goes back really true and the guy who invented the term because he came up with 2 opposing definitions 1 he called the White Paper version which I very much agree to so many other definitions of crowdsourcing but I find this 1 quite a student so he says it's a job that was traditionally performed by employees and the sermon outsourced to the crowd basically so this notion of outsourcing is very important and this is uh the commission that strongly reject is that the application of open source principles and to everything else that s and the side showed its
open source works differently so so it's beneficial for many people people less self-control there in the term of the Kevin and Christopher county and recursive public in the sense that they determine the conditions under which they work and then they don't follow a brief they to what someone else tells and you are and to make clear that this connection to labor was right there from the beginning there was meant to the term was meant to to refer to that this and that and Jeff Howe who introduced tones uh said it's the new pool of cheap labor and everyday people using their spare cycles to create content and so on for free and so I
mean 1 important point therefore is that crowdsourcing is about labor all crowd work by and I think the term digital labels are important it's a term coined by through people shorts and if you if you look for that term defined a whole different can a culture of discussion and then if you look in the typical innovation in management literature who strangely avoids the term work or labor it's all about power to get better ideas on how to and foster innovation and so on and and they never mention that it's labor essentially and I think it's important to to to point to the fact that it's about work
and so the question and that I'm interested in and of my research is basically about is can Crowdsourcing be organized in a way that is fair and sustainable for all stakeholders and and it's a tricky question because there are so many different crowdsourcing platforms of
projects and they all live at different or quite substantially different often and they are now a crowdsourcing but which sees itself as like have for the industry they list over 2000 crowdsourcing platforms so it's very tricky to to come to capture the problem with such a variety in and what I'm trying to do is to to map this field and um that
have and I'm working on this on this map at the moment it's not done yet but what the gray areas and these arms are the crowdsourcing like a broader definition how some people use the term and I would argue that crowdsourcing in the narrow sense is only these mall rats and bits and and so for example if a data mining which is also taking something from the crowd all kinds of input doesn't require a brief so people do something anyway and what is being swept up as basically the exhaust of what people do it all the time so so that's not as an of a brief and in user-generated content for example like on you tube and so on people also don't follow a brief they create their own future use and so on and on and on and on and the other directors of what they produce it's being swept up also and and and nurturing the profit of who were and so on but it's still something different than crowdsourcing narrow sense but don't go into every aspect of that now but I want to focus on on the small narrower and forms of crowdsourcing and SU and solve the Tom Sawyer example so the question is how do you get other people to do work for you and how do you get them to do your work instead of doing commons-based peer production and things like wikipedia for example because of course people are very happy to work for free because it's not intrinsically motivating and that's especially true for creative work people people like to and work on and tricky problems people like to have the exposure with for their creativity and people like to get the experience through work so their money reasons good reasons to work for free but there he needs to be an extra reason why you work for free for someone else and so to make it a bit more clear I think you can 1st of all divide the world of crowdsourcing into unpaid and paid work and and the unpaid form occurs in appealing implicit crowdsourcing where you do work without even really realizing it and volunteer crowd-worker donate your work because you believe in the cause even if it's for someone else and the paid part of crowdsourcing can again be subdivided in cognitive piece work microtasking
or are called up by the German where you where you essentially and get paid for every little bit to do encounters this crowd work well you and get paid on In a lottery system you have to win to get paid an overall that there's a layer of gamification which gets more and more important because it gives people incentives that I'm not money but where they are and where they get credit points and on a common leaderboards and get all kinds of budgets badges and achievements instead of a payment but often these concepts are combined and the so the point about gamification is bad even though you are spending a lot of time you time and you you're putting in effort in you don't have the feeling that you're losing something but you have to feeling that you are constantly making progress but you constantly getting better that you arising in the hierarchy of the platform that you're working on so so like real-word examples I like the employee of the month but also all these like bonus point systems and so on
so and this is something that occurs non crowdsourcing a lot to show you implicit crowdsourcing you all know this captures and don't go too much into that but many of you will know that that when you fill those out and you also helping Google Translate stuff all recognize and unreadable text or and recognizing numbers of houses of for you and so on so you during labor without really noticing at all you want to do something else but this side effect that you work for someone else could also be discussed if
Facebook is implicit crowd work because and also that you produce something for someone else but mean so many people have become that in Ahmedabad skeptical of that so in uh Nicholas Carr came up with the term sharecropping I find that quite suitable and just look at the volunteer crowd work and you like the most famous example in Germany at gasses and couldn't plot where and you had a large crowd working on discovering the plagiarism of learning how to go on and on so people and put in their work time because they believe in the goal of taking this guy down basically in but it says something nothing where the crowd really as the use of what they produce in the sense a very recent example is 1 time not where they come scan and where there are also lost to the crowd to go and the analysis of satellite images in this case to find some dismissing plane and I think it's a million people who contributed to that and of course this amazing that so many people are willing to to invest their time for such a goal so I'm it's not all in green and but there's another side which
is about the outsourcing of surveillance which I find quite problematic so um this project and just stopped because it was it was ineffective but it was running for a few years and the idea was that you could watch the Texas border and prevent immigrants from illegally crossing the border and people were doing this from their home if the same thing in the UK with Internet eyes whether that tried to crowdsource and shoplifters and you could watch the surveillance cameras from small shops and what is still an active for and this this and projects could face watch idea it's also by the British police and and it's a biology you do basically you post code and you can see you might be able to recognize criminals in your neighborhood and from your iPhone and what so I just put this up to say that this volunteer volunteering doesn't always necessarily mean that it's but it's good I mean of course you can argue this to reduce crime but but still on the table paid child look which is the more relevant form of crowd worker thing and the set falls into cognitive piece work
as 1 category and then you and like no and manners of Mechanical Turk which is a platform where now 500 people are working on and they do the smaller tasks like recognizing stuff and uh organizing databases and so on and and they get like very tiny amounts like a sender so for everything they do and so they come from 190 nations and and supposedly you there are 10 thousand people on Amazon's Mechanical Turk at any given moment and toiling away and and the problematic thing or 1 of
the problematic things about and mechanical turk is that these workers are quite quite invisible and there's a very strong information asymmetry between and those giving out to work and those having to do it and so for example the people who letting the crowd work for them they can take the work of the crowd but still say how it was that we don't want it and we don't pay anyone afterwards after they have taken and the work which can be regarded as wage theft innocence and and the other important thing is that outside of India and the US so in other 100 in 88 countries that are working on Mechanical Turk Amazonas paying these workers only in vouchers so if you want to get you money from you want you have to date but by staff in the factory shop so you getting basically um a disadvantage again and but but the strange thing is that with you look into the forms of these platforms and the workers even though they make as little as maybe 1 dollar 40 in our so and if they are not experiencing this goes up to maybe like 5 dollars so if they really experienced and these workers and don't want any regulation of their work because they fear that the little money that they make their will break away if if uh and uh legislation that gets in there so so people away want to get exploited there because they are so dependent on this work and because of the general economic and situation and this is clearly not crowd work that people do in their free time just for fun but people really trying to make and ends meet with this type work and they are programs that try to build on Mechanical Turk and use the API basically so for example this is and it's a research project by the MIT and where they have the idea that you have like a plaque in a new word processor where you can then just if you write a text you can choose a paragraph and then give it to the crowd and they corrected or condense it or do something different formatting with it and you pay a little bit and for this service and and what I find problematic about this is that the people that work for you completely disappear in the interface so you don't have any human relationships anymore and also I mean the name is quite grim and now many of you know but this this film soylent green and which is about
overcrowded world where at the end it became clear that that they're doing nutritious snack that everybody's living 1 is made of people so it's quite cynical to name it this way and I think
it's meant as a joke but still you have to take into consideration that this is the design of a work environment for thousands of people so I um they are not taking into consideration when you when you design such a work environment there's an yeah however if and have tried to do something against this information effectively have for example to have because this 1 is like in for firefox that allows the workers to see which 1 which employers and tend to not pay the workers or treat them badly because Amazon does not include these informations for the world so these systems are really designed in a way that the workers and I don't have any and all that good user experience or any the control over what they're what they're doing and and this is 1 clock in that tries to the more morphology workers in this instance sense of knowledge now
before the rest of the talk I will speak about the crowdsourcing of design because this is what I am especially interested in and interesting
aspect about this is that you identify the guy came up with the term common space in the production pointed out that if the granularity of the task is very high so if the individual tasks are very small items mechanical terminal on and on and on other platforms that incentives and becomes trivial so so if you if you don't if
they have to pass use very tiny and you do it on the side and then you know you don't expect much drawn from that but with designing solutions you cannot do that it it's and you cannot fine-grained it's to the extent that you for example can do data input inputs so you have to work a few hours to create the design and so you cannot pay the workers for every click they do that's why you need the contest system and I will let 1 of those big platforms in the field 99 designs and with about 300 thousand Rajat of register designers working for them explain their business model and to you
welcome to 99 designs the number 1 place for crowdsourced creative design what makes 99 designs different
with 99 designed you get dozens of designers to work on your project we help you post design contest were crowded
designers compete giving the design you love you money back here's how it works tell us
what you need to global business cards website redesign product packaging then
tells how much you like the place that's right you decide how much you pay the more you offer the
more design concept you'll see within
hours designed to or after
that so everybody was like you don't like so that designers can improve their lives on after
7 days you'll have changes in design from dozens of designers then who's really want to check out all the designs and so you find
the rest assured that you don't get a design you love will give you a 99 designed
this the best way to get graphic design done for and with no it's already over
50 thousand projects that have word or words now Giorgia want your design project that and so the London designs and and similar platforms they growing like topsy and then there are a few years ago there was a lot of protesters design community against these and and it tends to to say the word and so on and and and maybe it was thought that might might still waiting and but and I think this is not going to happen and so 99 designs for example require and I think 35 million dollar venture capital and which is quite substantial and they don't have on the broader the point is why it's so attractive for venture capital is because they found a way that they can not only also was completely labor without having to pay for that but also completely the risk so they only controlling the the platform the stack so to speak without doing much and they but they take about 40 per cent off and the money that the clients pay so if you go there to get a lower down and you pay for 1 euro 99 designs takes off 120 EUR right away and then there's 180 EUR left for the designers to compete and then about 116 logos that you get from that on average so the price of mobile falls down to within 1 dollar 50 yourself and chance for you to get paid for your work is then 1 and 116 or something like that so it's very risky to for you to to work in this environment and you have 2 choices basically either you exploit yourself a lot and put in a lot of time to get good logos all and steal ideas which many people do in these environments so it's a lot about like recycling stuff from some kind of kind of databases from the art and so on which has the effect that the on top of the very problematic working conditions additions moneywise people also inclined to rat each other out and saying all of this and this stole this idea from there and and so they post means where the ideas came from so so if those people trying to game the system by uploading half ready-made designs and those who put in far too much time especially because they have portfolio sites on these platforms where all the design that you do then basically folds back on you so so you want to have a good global in your for you even if you get not paid for it at all and and so that's the reason why in design work people really inclined to do work that is really a and they put in much more time than would be economically reasonable design lessons another platform and
in an German platform adjust included this just show you the the ratio in which the most successful people win contexts so the most successful person on that platform is seen as 1 about 500 to contest but he participated in 3 thousand and so that's the most successful guidance and so in every 5th time only gets paid for his work and if you see
the most successful people and sought after the success rate like the more you take part in a way that the more realistic it comes that you lose so it's like gambling but if you do it sometimes you might have locked but if you do with a lot of chances are all odds are against you
the and I included this testimony and because of brings across a if you pointed by a designer from the Philippines and she writes about the suspected the interdiction and how addictive as it is that you always think you almost want and and then the clients as or can you change please this and that and you do more work and more work and then again you still don't and so you are in that little money that even for people in the Philippines and it can be quite tough even though if of course much lower living standards all the costs that we have so globalization is a very important aspect of crowdsourcing and and here you cannot seriously compete with people with that might be less than living costs but even for them than them it's in different so the question is is it exploitation and how to define exploitation and of course there's like this whole Marxist body of theory that argues that basically if if if a value is extracted and that does not flow back to some of the workers and with they work longer than they're getting paid for it's already exploitation that makes basically every drop exploitation and capitalism so I really can recommend to read the paper of in this professor of philosophy who argues that it's really about having a fair share in the value that is being extracted and and and we could go back to that in
the discussion later but I wanna show a few designed and crawled designed platforms that what did I work in different and not some or all dried exploit attentive but try to make things differently
so I legal ideas and for example and gives those who contribute ideas and who make it through a long process the 1 you know long process of gathering contributors for their designs they they get a share in the revenue that Lego eventually makes in this process which um of course sounds great but and here it's a problem like on a hit list also in that it in in effect all the products that are effectively you get made in in already existing brands so um because the for Lego that promises the biggest profit I guess and also you can get the most supporters for your idea so them more original ideas like including more female scientists for legal or playful ideas but but those the things that actually make it to the shells are usually only parts of already existing brands like back to the future and and and Harry Potter and so on and so forth and and they produce I think 2 or 3 new products every year so so you have to do a lot of work in gathering 10 thousand supporters before your product has the chance that they look at it to users the the most successful company at the moment in this field is quirky and and they're quite amazing they now of 800 thousand designers working for them and they develop these products like household-products usually rather simple but clever ideas for all kinds of stuff and they also if this evaluation process with the crawled so solids the crawler to purchase things forward and they collaborate on these ideas in the platform tracks who has contributed what to a very fine grained extent and so if the product makes it to the shelves and in contrast to label they put out 3 new products every week that and then 35 thousand stars with a very high production rate they make a lot of money to be and then there's this weekly
and a evaluation process as well as the and 150 employees of the company voted together with the communities which projects are going to move forward and then project is putting a lot of work in this so the community contributes the ideas and refines them but quirky makes 3 product of them they have a lot of product designers working for them they have to hold infrastructure from production from production to the shelves and so they can be very very profitable and and you can pay a lot back to the crowd while ago interview with this guy who developed as a special wine opener on and he now warrant and 53 thousand dollar house through the sales and through being part of the inner part of the revenues and in so um that's already quite substantial and I'm his name and his pictures on the on the road and on the packaging of the product together with the names of hundreds of other people who think maybe 800 or so we've also influence this idea and also get like a tiny fraction of the revenue and and quirky like this the most
and successful guy and quirky he already owns a 600 thousand and power and for a very clever and Schechter was ordinal usually it's OK so and they make a lot of money and also again venture capital is pouring in so they now got 176 million in venture capital and that they are and they that pretty pretty quiet and they make 18 million in revenue in 2012 and they still growing very quickly but they also still not profitable because they expanding so much not expert sample is you more to it so the
bottom start up and they work differently because they they do campaigns and designs for big plants and they are and have large sums of money that the crowd can win a contest and the crowd also is taking part in the evaluation and in so it's not a winner takes it all model but and there may be 5 winners who take sums from like 10 thousand euros to maybe 5 2 thousand so so and depending on if you are the 1st of the and they added the intellectual property rights if the company actually tries to produce something that once appears something goes forward with it and it's and you get paid for that extra and in contrast to the design logos interlobar design you don't produce the full product you produce the idea and so there's a big difference and and so they they really tried to organize it as fair as possible and so you see on how the pricing this is organized and plus a license licensing the and so I think they do a lot of things right and they are very aware of the the exploitation of fairness problem in crowdsourcing and laughter
platform that I want to briefly mention is open idea and it's by the BIC I you design cooperation but they they try to circumvent the problem of fairness by only outsourcing and projects to the crowd that are meant to be for the greater good and and and they don't pay the crowd at all and they are more wanted to participate because of experience and and and in because it's it's it's a socially beneficial and then yes you see it for example this design quotient is a good example for the information implementation of gamification so if I worked there for every little bit I do and I get points and and our this is how people on the platform perceive me so I wear this patch in front of me and of course it's a huge incentive for me to put in extra hour into into rate 2 designs of the other people and to generally be a nice person because I think this is the currency on the platform this design quotient OK enough examples back to the question from the beginning
so can crawl Design or Crowdsourcing be designed in a way that is fair and sustainable for all stakeholders and I think not both I think that examples like you've auto shows that it can be designed fair in a way that the revenues are more fairly distributed and so on but still it's not a sustainable model I just came from a talk about freelancing and then there was the same argument there that you cannot work for free if it's your profession and it's something like an internship that might make sense in the beginning of your career when you have no experience and so on and you you even then is problematic but but there might be good reasons why I know why you decide to work for free but um but as a as profession it's really detrimental and problematic of the so so it can be organized patterns can be designed in a way that is more fair but you always have to take into consideration that there is always a limited budget for the work but if the crowd by definition is unlimited to large you always have to seperate this budget either everyone gets very tiny amount of money all or it's a winner takes it all modern and and so that cannot be sustainable if you work for free and um the the people around you bought all possible to back into other and guys they're old quite a good insightful book about crowdsourcing the comets crawled storming where you can really see that they are aware of the fairness and so so the book is pretty good but what is really disturbing is that they keep referring referring to the American idol them which is like the American version of
Buchan symptoms bus stop or other the other way around but only I think it's it's it's horrible to to have like a working situation where you have this system of everybody competing to everybody against everybody and there's only 1 winner in the end where this production companies in the background that continuously make a lot of money and all this venture capital goods flowing into the area of crawled work shows that people are really believe in with people really believe in the funny people give the money that they can extract substantially more money out of it all the time so and that really shows that that the system is a flawed the thing and and to come back to the picture from the beginning this this move moral philosopher called John Rawls and he and this this concept of a Theory of Justice basically to evaluate fairness uh and this is here's have you design a system has to design should be in the position or put them in the mental position of not knowing in which which position they will later take system only then it's fair so if you if you upfront have like we call to the veil of ignorance so you don't know where you learned in this system and you certainly don't want to land here but if it if you don't have a chance to and when you land they had to move up or if you it it basically unfair systems and on so I think this is an important point 0 4 hollow in and where where do you put yourself do you see yourself in this position of not being able to outsource work yourself to become an exploiter in way and then send staff to to developing countries and being this powerful position or do you see the whole system and also the other side and and yeah mentioned already the point of sustainability and arm few yesterday saw a very good talk by is asking assassin and she also talked about about the erosion of the middle class and the way capital extracts around resources from a broader and broader and part of society and I think this is part of what we are also seeing with crowdsourcing and and there's an a very good book by and and you run you who and it's called who owns the future and he also addresses this problem and he says that it's basically what he calls the Siren Servers those people who owned the structure who own the stack who owned the platform who basically get more and more powerful you see with Google and Facebook and so on while if like the majority of people who were basically treated as livestock in there so there are disposable and this conclusion which isn't maybe worth discussing is that we should not work for free at all we should they implement the system where everything we do gets paid a tiny amount and then so it piles up so the floor in his system is that this and demands that we have a like a total surveillance of everything we do on the internet is being recorded and then there's like a mechanism where profits are around distributed according to this total surveillance in way as you have it on an as a model on quirky also platform tracts every the contribution that you makes that you make on the other model that you come across especially in Germany and what is the idea of a bidding so the combined come like general basic income which also sounds tempting because then I mean you and if you are if you are page you can spend your time as you will on Monday is a free labor projects and and and and experience your creativity and enhance the master students on I think the floor and that proper in that proposition is that then you really have to even have more strict border control for example so you can never have people like you can about 7 billion people are moving freely around the world when the you have a system that is based on the state paying people to have a decent living and not paying them for their work that's why I'm a bit skeptical often and when I come here after only wrap up now so maybe 1 in the idea would be to Texas companies that draw so much from the general public very high amounts of money and use that money to redress redistribution but and I also don't think that that's like the final solution in order to the perfect ideal so so I don't have a solution to the problem my my mission is more to point out that crowdsourcing is indeed very problematic and it's not like a fledgling new web phenomenal anymore but that it has considered the consolidated and is now like a huge industry and that we should aware of the exploitation mechanisms in this industry and on if you see the whole thing from the aspect of workplace design this is really like enabled liberal ideal come true to to work on it in an environment where where you are and of total surveillance your paid by gamification everything you do was is and is tracked and and and I find it quite dystopian and so and I think it's important to and stand up against it so thank you was
fewest you're much for the very concerned presentation with 10 more minutes for questions to you at the of any questions in the audience and yeah the thank you very much for your great presentation I have a question about the and because you mentioned the open ideal platform what I find interesting about this platform is this is about nonprofit projects but if you want to apply for a job at ideal they expect you to have an open ideal profile so I wonder what you think about the fact regardless of how these crowdsourcing platforms are designed especially at the beginning of your career you need to be participating in you need an online could folio which are not being paid in order to be visible are applied to jobs it's super interesting that you mention it and I can ask you back like a world war holy noted because I keep hearing that and I think it makes total sense that it's basically like an externalized internship system but it's hard to prove that like it have you made this experience of or and I am a research on on a designer so was thinking about applying to design research jobs but I don't ever designed portfolio and their fault have applied because I did wanna spend month building up a profile In as platform for free the other thing is that this is really the the domain motivating factor behind it but it's hard to track that down but that that the time it'd SuperTime consuming in contrast to other crawl projects because the project are so complex you really have to read a lot of what other people who contributed and and it's it's very intensive labor actually to to be able to to keep up with them out as some more questions and it will be hi if I understood it correctly you say that it should be a mix of intrinsic and extrinsic M. incentives that you off a platform and skeptical about the intrinsic ones I have to say because badges are nice and I present like it I over gamification like that bad and how would you say you this structure these intrinsic incentives so that it's fine and people go for it and it's you feel like you can something because he showed the design quotient which you can wear as a badge of honor and you can put it in your cv maybe or something like that what's your idea of making that good but I think that the intrinsic motivation that that's really what you do bring bring yourself so so so I think it's hard to to to design that and I think that the indemnification from is really an extra music and mechanism and about the viewpoint of a very important thing the fact that you cannot extract your experience from these platforms and take them anywhere else so you basically tied to this thing is you if you show up with your design quotient by another company you might not know what do you mean that platform you do you start from nothing you cannot really put that in your CV that you worked there for free free that that many times so so so there's a lock in effect with the reputation that you build up in these platforms so you think it should be in in a way way you could do that that that would be a good thing that you may get something more general so you can take it and put it in a CV and have it as a reference that would be a step forward but I think you should get properly paid and put that in your bank account and take that with you and and the thanks so it's a Christian over there and the hi and he he interbedded problems wave prazosin policing and more border control KT said that more about that and the way you think the line is with community sharing information but I think that mean it's a problematic when you outsource the obligations that clearly belong to the state to the crowd to save money and because you but you also you don't know what the motivation of people those who own participate in these surveillance and a projects even with the cooking barracks thing good clock and having the motivation of people have for someone to defend academia and serves a function but there's of course also always like a political agenda and and and you don't know why people are so keen on bringing that particular person down your ossible knows they got hindered off by someone else following a political agenda and so on so I think there are many other parts of of of work and that should clearly not be outsourced in a way where you don't have any control who was and participating for what reason and another example is an L goal was doing this project that's called reality dropped way basically fight against climate change deniers where you have like a game show gamify platform where people get credit points when they place arguments again like that that show climate change is actually happening into other let's websites and discussion forums and so on so you might see a comment in a platform that seems reasonable and you don't not even aware that this person is not posting this common necessarily because you assure that discussion but here she gets credit points on some other platform so it becomes very transparent transparent what people are motivated by and who who guides them through gamification for example and also like that with the state thing I think you should not paid like headhunting fees again if I'd bonus point systems for for tracking down criminals and it's it's sector-wide wide west so into the wild it's really like the models for that the so are there any questions and hands over there thank you and and the hi and think through their in some of the representations could questions owing in crowdfunding he hasn't examples of at the crowds buying equities important very initiating to know of licenses that occur the size of the same for people this feels so inside here we have on the we of the have high since have here here here here here a very going and you have the you so so these are 2 of the examples of really really as part of the revenue and I think that's quite fair because the more profit somebody makes with your idea the more money you also get into some of the lowest quizzes below digitally of the new In an operator drift time for 1 and 2 more questions and the content of the there is 1 more issue about crowdsourcing if crowd is doing is solving some really difficult problems are there is some intellectual property IP of the companies and NDA and it's rather complicated companies don't want to give their secrets out but they want to get to problems so solved which are connected with this secrets how do you think of this will work well there's a platform for example and and very old platform already like 12 years old and in a sentence that is the way people solve research and development problems for BIC and chemical corporations for example and there were some way that and at least the crowd cannot see the contributions of the others so it's it's not visible from what the others do and so you have some protection that and that you the idea is not going away but but for people like for inventors for example the inventor I interviewed for from quirky you did this wine opening thing he said that if he has like a really good idea you you 1st goes to platforms when nobody can seize his ideas and and then if it if they were well when the company's reject his idea then he goes through community platforms where the risk that somebody steals ideas is higher but I'm also the chance that it's being developed so you have to let the system of of going from 1 platform to the other and depending on the level of secrecy OK FE our time is running out of OK thank you again for this wonderful presentation I think I think you you'll be way will finances after the time there would be another crowdsourcing talk in 2 hours so you indexing have moderate that's if we have a short break and continue on with the next presentation thank it by