Don't talk to women in tech about women

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Don't talk to women in tech about women
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When Martha was 19 she received a Hacker School scholarship, but was denied the visa to enter the US. Instead, she opened the Nairobi DevSchool. Clarisse runs the most successful mobile technology start-up in Ruanda. The two of them stand out, as there is still a stark underrepresentation of women of women in technology in Africa and around the world. During this fireside chat Clarisse and Martha are going to speak about the difficult balancing act of being a role model, business woman and building up a company, as well as speaking at conferences.
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in laws arrays everyone good afternoon and the also like it has a bit more energy so that's great we're just gonna ask those who what was settling into please do so so we can get started right I so while consider session that is titled Don talk to women in tech about women in tech I will get gist of what that is in a moment but 1st I want to introduce the 2 lovely ladies isn't right next to me here this is an East African connection but we're gonna open it up to the global connection a promise that demiphone tracking we have Clarice from a start up that we love to call here in act with a lot of a more successful mobile apps in Peru right now and the fierce injury to amount from Nairobi dev school and this lovely ladies and I share with us their journey into tax from another point of curiosity to the point where they became this fabulous and orders and what that means now that they are women in tech and I'll just be making noise may humans Menger from the i have been Kenya so Clarice so right jump right into it it could tell us about how you ended up in Secs obtained thank you very much on my she mentioned my name is Clarice from 1 there and I run a mobility company called hey hey but it's actually a king I know what that mean square and basically what we do is we know we just want to be the data that point people to the right information
on that inspires them to do a thing cinema believe the possible and how it got into technology um I would say that it starts when I was about maybe 5 years old when my mom bought me a doll about the doll and I decided to wash its here for some reason and all its hair fell off so must have been 1 of those who you know knockoff dolls and when it has fell off my mom thought I probably did like dolls so she went and got me all different kinds of other toys that were not the traditional toys that you got cults so she called me in my tennis ball um um video games right throughout my my life all these different types of things and the types of following and this just sort of exposed me to a lot of to another whole side of the wall that was not the traditional this is how you bring up a girl only detect Dole shiftability changes to do all the different types of things and because the types of toys that Heidegger a chance to you know play with guys and we would not you know discover video games computers and all these other things and before I knew it I want it to be a computer scientist to figure out what is you know what is behind this machine and that's when I was 16 years old and um I've got the chance to do computer engineering at the Kigali Institute of Science and Technology and come in mice idea we had the chance to participate in a 6 weeks program with some students from MIT in the US and out of that 6 ICs programming what taught mobile apps development on entrepreneurship and before I knew it k Hank existed they face fines area and that's your story
and my genentech has been a beat and shorter compared to place out after high school I was meant to go to med school so the thing in OK now when you do well as a GAO audit together that when you do it or 2 as a assuming good to actually went to the same high school but in different 3 different years of socialist of having from so from the school you are expected to do may be seen
that's kind of funny that you know we 1 of the few schools in Kenya where physics is a compulsory subject so is a possible physics biology is a compulsory after which you become a doctor so it was really so always will I was in my few months we do high school university I was working as an intern at an in you and I is what about culture and a and you know my inputting figures into exile and as they continue doing that a good grief as needed I how this computer what I had the red and the local beta beat at 1 point in my previous life would answer to good to MIT by and that was used to free up applications was really fascinated and how the beetles asking was working mean asked so many questions in quite get answers and those asked will be and that's exactly what I did I came across programming in a very interesting is the by the phone ComunitĂ  how to be a half gives a description from landing of fast programming language what's required of you and what's going on in technology that will is leads to the linear and 11 out after finish high school it was really exciting I
went through the is data to myself tells me that he wasn't IEEE 2012 is when many sites such as Udacity courses they're actually house could Academy had just been launched so those this flood of information on line of how to be a half cup it is a new was me and everything was a variable so I quit my internship what a computer and that it had to what about that something is a man on the stage and I found out that have come in you can answer this in any order I mean so great so here you on your maybe 4 5 years into what you're doing out what would you take about the fact that you know when people talk about women in tech they say no this still under-represented and then that all these out well very real and perceived barriers right so an actual barrier would be in our case where you know you when it's if you wanted to science you supposed to
do medicine something in the biological field right now in Clarice case which is I'm a rare I think clerestories you you got the chance to get away from Dolce you want foster that dolls you want to that's what girls do what you make of the fact that well they're very real is to L women entering in technology but then that they also those that are perceived you know and what's your take on that and the how how we can start you know making it a bit more ubiquitous so that we can get to a place where we're not talking just about women in tech but people interact men and women combined the on fossil the bias thing I think you're right there medium perceived by us for example in my case I I have no idea why a much used to them trying to do is to get where I had no idea completed sentences that default considering on something wanted to might he has free 1 and how your head that had no legal defense existed and I did physics but it still had no idea this existed and I think some of the real barriers those of William Kenya for high school students boys schools get a chance to study electronics that
pisses me off I'm more of them has the same day with my brother idea home science we had 1 science fine arts in music and for technical said that there were no that's technical a now I really that's nice but it's annoying that we're both in public schools and I have no chance whatsoever to study electrons in a in girl school because school in can NASA weighted dialog and we schools so the guy you just don't want to
study the students fully team and my feeling is that by the time I'm telling to you may but as being with electronics and not just actual even in school has been building things in school for more than 5 years so competing actually was seen as a as a couple of years ahead of you can't our school of was interesting was we actually did have a computer lab and then we had the textbooks but what would happen is it would always be close to so if it's not the 1 hour session you have for the computer class you get a chance to go home you know test out and think about think around it out examinations in computer after you write the code the piece of paper and a pen and you know just puts the teacher will actually put the right stops you know and that's it but then I discovered even with what he had his brother schools they have the exact opposite experience they had of that the labs open for them and so that you're right and that becomes then an actual buyer and
which you've seen in your context I'll just say that I have really been blessed to 1st of all have been brought up the way that I was way it did not I if I was a girl or if you know my brother was you know he loved mound fixing stuff in our home you all
just children and whatever my parents feel that you are more oriented toward the encouraged that and then there's the context of my country where some it's we're not just talking about women in tech but generally how do we how do we encourage women to just play an active role in the society there you know the accomplice after maybe 60 per cent of the population so you can't just ignore that so you find that we have schools that are really focused on you know making sure that God's get a great education some of the schools a even just focused on technology and that has really changed things out with the based in a bit of a challenge where you know for example In my university class they wipe out of 50 which is a really small class which is a good thing over 50 there were about you know on 15 dollars and them I mean that's not a very good steady state but it's quickly changing you find that up a lot of Gaza getting involved in technology my company this December you know just hired 5 have 5 more people and it was really really
hard to when it came to actually getting guys the have about that it was it was found that I have I have I have because the girls were so good and when I was just we had new full full girls and 1 guy and when I was having 0 1 1 with this guy about to note to wanting to the company he told me Clarice when they came to this place and you had to work really hard cause it's hard for guys to get jobs in runtime you out of here I and therefore well that's interesting but I know the challenge is still there but it's not just about take it's about saying hardly get women involved in politics of it remain involved in and finance in entrepreneurship how to get them involved in everything
and I hope that the composition can really be about you know just getting women involved in that society as a whole and not just you know take and Jerry Amini rendered dev school now and and seen on
and I think this is now growing trend in many places in the world where if you're trying to include more women in tech you create women on the other institutions or women on the courses and women on the conferences like it's on only women world which is not true and I'm just curious from having a space like yours Nairobi deaf school how those dynamics of laid out and not just in numbers where knocking off the guys for more girls how that space you know
I which I believe has more guys and girls involved coming into the train how that's played out the the and this interesting questions the fast bytes and we clearly had more guys that then goes on in the 2nd but to the training we tried to consciously getting more girls and we got this position where obligations Open 1 9 out girls have looked of play so we sent e-mails to user groups and with the had no applications so in this position all of are we going to take half of the number in unison all these other guys form and tried to go to get the girls um so I'm forgot how that males with at women's when the program and we read trying to move in the bio whatsoever that could be there in indeed in the school on board and I'm a woman so I don't think that you find the node really being friendly so I have to look quite high answered that question but yes I have 2 that would too I should we should let that happen inventory we decided to just go with applications that and to the interviews and with as we fight coming so as much as we we do I I am the much encouraging more women to get into technology but I I didn't want to look out and queef fight people if I see um just because of their
gender because then I get I feel lake but everything that we're fighting is exactly what you created by means of removing this by year from plays and putting the 2 news site I mean what a later and so I think that's under the composition that we should have so any 1 of you can answer so do you think then when we have this narrative women in tech and these perceptions that are starting to go around that means on bringing more women you know OK let's have women in conferences just to fill up the numbers and say look we have women and how is it playing out the fact that I should not only be there because I'm a woman but because actually our deserve to be there 1 and 2 I'm actually skills you know I was in the feature spaces and I'm sure you probably told at some point of that to be a role model how you perceive the idea of being a role model are you thinking of it as I do you feel this pressure to be like a role model for women so now you suddenly modeled
as other women must fully apart and cares about what you think about just being a role model as someone intact you know it's not about being a woman says that because I have here and you know the high heels that I have a setting collarbone each that can only be a role model for but because of skills and I don't know because I'm sure that would has been use you because you're young and so you know your women in Texas everything is set up for the state but how do you perceive the idea being role models the
price of beauty invited by 6 months to speak at a conference be cause they had no women to speak it's funny because all the organizations conferences so the oily must leave the need to have to speak and so can you speak and 10 known each 1 of them because they didn't care what I have to talk about the the cable to the talk proposal let's and I have it was never
about the quintet in that quantum that she and really we and could positive conference that was happening in Israel last year I want to mention the conference and so the before that actually is a an increase in Greece the IEA before the they had only white men as because and avoid Ruby communities I think is that this sort of the conference in a the hall in the community was up on that 1 to them quiz the would line up with white men Newton Alan from you could it the input for this and this year they we tried to to add some diversity in a good Maoism African 1 part of the made in new really went out and tried get tops and at the end of that we had no woman on and so I was how the last result so if I may ask why was that's always at well if the searched well within the women in the society my what was to call the tells instead of communications so I don't know maybe freedom exo bytes you know the thing about will talk proposals economy invite you to say that a proposal was I what to saying it'll proposal in the community will exploit if there's not a proposal that belong to look for weight so I think of maybe we should walk on Edmund getting model purple proposals that diseases that could and would for if it's not too bad I wasn't quite sure how I was going to do that then you had to ones to get that going and I think I get offended person Will you asked me to shore up with them a moment was later that even as would topical speak about everyone else's talk was voted on my and we'd get supported on I mean shoe show up cues from Kane issues we often think that would be less
so I think we need to teach in that composition as much as the idea that i'd diversity we actually employing the possible just because I I can write you would Ruby which is really equal to and I get fooled into police and you know I have a otherwise was the wall can enumerated you and so I think we need to talk to him I 0 I want freedom policy AU Winfrey empowered I'm not fights and lots of them playing at the global level because how is that going to help me Teknologi that would have been a vision right and so I think the composition should change of the closure thoughts about so I will so that for me once got into technology mean 1 2nd I was just an ordinary human being and define a new towers a woman in technology so I became aware of
all of these and sometimes I'd invite me and I should say 2 places you know just because of a woman I was given the mandate to step that goes in ICT movement in my country I'm down like all these things are weighing down on my head and the CIA actually made what seemed to be a bit of a radical decision to quit this group at put disco because when I got into technology it's not because I sold Marissa Meyer or somebody else there and all these a woman in technology I want to do this I I did it because it's something especially at about I think that that the the real composition goes beyond I just um I mean is it is if women in technology no it's a we empowering every single human being in our society and sometimes when want with high
school kids I will you know sort of encourage that teenage girls because sometimes the they guys around and they're intimidated and things like that kind pretend that that is not there but I I do wanna put them in a corner and see you know you just compete amongst yourselves and adjust the goal being and and will have only 2 worlds their soul it at we we do try to find a way to balance it but I will say that the and at some point they just have to see you know what I just want to run my business I want to do what I'm passionate about
and I'm not yet to say where women and you know we can do this to let's look at point grace these parameters because they're on
and I did run up of all lots of women to come for this session because I also wanted to open it up to the lord and so I mean anyone here who has a similar point at a different point of disagrees of what we've all talked about rainout Nizar chance so I hope somebody who has taken over my role on the floor to rover the mike I would do jobs that I am not going to do fast I'm not too good at heating them from Kenya so the that that there's 1 question or hand over there that yes so this very shocking medium at the same point but if you have a look around this comes 1st stop for stated distribution management is very good so and stuff on your Service finally there saying that because 6 thousand people don't like to new but what's really interesting is that even though the distribution is equal if you have a look at the questions being asked a case in point uh it's the picture by men and I think the reason for that is that man somehow feels more maybe
titles or just more make them more which shot the name of the question that we ask is going to be meaningful which is the case of course for women so that they have passed the proper question I think there will uncertainty better the questions from my perspective because I see here the same questions being repeated innocence but but but I feel this is something that that that is related to what you were saying that you know there are no proposal by women
because if you ask the remember the shouldn't say no I don't have anything to say what I have to say is not relevant or more interesting and where's the guys saying what the state of the art of something to say and you know it's interesting and and and and you know are definitely win the from the get the you know and I guess it is quite often but there are a few cm but the dual proposal and the people that apply to job than the women will apply will be also qualified than the guys who library to younger qualified for the job that's because for that it's the same reason and the women enhance use of great stuff I don't know if the I 2 in to get them right on 1 was 7 concerning what you said earlier on the Republic has a very good example of how it can work with some women be represented at conferences especially on just because there's a lot of women on the team and a lot of the people basically all of them will have a sensitivity to what's the the issue of from women in our fields and so that's not really the normal case like we heard on but the 2nd thing is you're saying earlier that you don't really wanna be the 1 in getting invited just because she's a woman and I actually get that and of course I want it to be different as well but someone told me a few years ago and have sort of living on after this controversial and theme and to not be afraid to be the token woman sometimes because if there's not women and going and and uh and uh taking taking an opportunity even if it's something just because they're a woman and then proof that they have the knowledge they know what they're talking about and they can do it and they belong there
and to sometimes just like forget how you got there but I but killers when you there and have them and I know it's a bit controversial because of course you wanna be there and in the 1st place because you know what you're talking about but that's just something that I've been
living by but I think can be very encouraging the and fathers thank yeah I'm working since 6 years and take I only problems I never get the job like I'm sending my CV and they get it because everyone told me you all took qualified for this job we're taking a man who has not so much but if can I'm saying come on what they're them living in Germany and normally if you tell that to amend said no it's not possible of course you will get the job because we're on the same level but it's not
like that and for me if I'm I'm getting and I see there's a conference or something I signed up to have to speak because I just want to show you what I know and they just want to speak for the woman which our competent and stuff and if just say here I have a I have something in the want to talk and mostly getting new new and the ratio of their there are moments when 1 is just sitting in the ones
asking more just say something is a man say OK now you can ask questions almost all woman's are like just sitting and listening and I think we should go more in talking more and if you get the opportunity to ask or to to just show you competence to students don't be shy as a woman we need to to show our competences more as the might gets together sigh don't do anything of does add to that is we sometimes think that the only way to represent the police by being loud but there are
people who are then active by listening you know the final participants and they shouldn't be anything about but more women not speaking as a function of them not being there it's of it could be that they listening more than people who just want a set themselves and so these are some of the things I'm finding out even I myself as they do a lot of this is a question of don't whether it's a man or a woman it doesn't mean a function of your participation in this world is being allowed being active it could be the fact that showed up so I just wanted to say that is also valid on that it should never be a 1 dimensional way to dependent on it so what I'm
experiencing is that women tend to um strive for for per cent experiences like they wanted to be perfect and they are trying to have like the perfect wording on stage the perfect content the perfect sentences they say and I think we don't have to be prepared it's just that we show that we have there and that the self-confidence is without perfect chosen in this I'd say and so trust yourself very good and good thank you wow OK let's see how much more time into the you know the time is cut off the head the the only guy was spoken so my name is Brian and Our and from compiler in there so and inspired by his ladies actually meant higher here but I know but that the school and Claris uh think 4 years Park in Uganda we run the code goes and what these ladies are saying and what someone has decided to is that they are very true we had an event um last month where we
write and over 60 golf and guess what happened we actually thought it was going to be this interactive not just came on the set and then 2 groups and they did all the assignments and the workshops and there's nothing they great presentations and you know what happens with the guys that ego and everything you know just simple and then after 3 weeks we call them again for a design station in we were grown it's likely had been doing this like the rest 6 months soared fleshy saves it's probably not about um being valid in all being everywhere on social media about stuff it's
just just give them a chance to be we want to be you know think think much and think you had a however very long time but I can see more hands popping off but this conversational definitely continue somewhere so I will try to be quick so I have to commence along on what someone said about High School being different for current boys in Kenya I went but the school incidents and I had the same opportunities as the guide but yet when you go to engineering school you have 15 to 20 per cent of girls so even if it is available it doesn't mean that the girls are entering the 2nd comment is that as a general we're told we have to be pretty and modest and polite and quiet at the same time the because they have to be strong and brave so it's something that is really so deep inside of us genes where the girls and for us if ever there fight to stand out in actually take my and and speak up because it's being used you in so deep inside of us and we need every day the by the time so I think that is a separate
question I'm sorry to cut and run after all what it means for you to have a choice because what we're discussing here think describing it is the fact that give us the choice OK that it be delegates university it's not because I did not about tag or any tech was so made a choice not to take 10 so what do you think about having had choice and freedom because I'm the 1 which decided to go to tech school I'm a physicist and I decided whether
with well that when I was a would come to it this this when I grow up and I didn't hear of the old but some for duals and what the people shake them in a file and you don't want to do it and so I don't know why people don't go because and I did it go what is observed that insulin happening and merger of saying I don't want to to take school go there are too many guards and I'm afraid of them and I want to say if you really want to go go you care because there's too many guys all great so I thought we had to have probably have 1 hour so yes let's keep talking also and yes so that means that there there there here yes the women idea and Solomon great stuff it and high will get it from naruby my question is out of course I feel you because of all mine and I hate being the token woman by is they have value in in seeing someone just like you succeeding in something that you would possibly want to do do you think that as our mind in our position of success and you're you're able to influence some would be more than 1 mind would influence another 1 of to go somewhere and I guess yes 1 because of we'll of regions in you know you picture a feature it's really had a chair feature when using a month ahead out of you know it
makes more sense so you could see a successful woman in a position that you want to occupy and see that it's possible to do natives of was making 5 about a friend of mine VT was up here is that the Whitney me and include book till I want to be a Nobel Prize remain here's my plan and when she given the book I thought told while they must from Kenya the fact that is the Kenyan woman was when it attaches visually it out and it's possible et and see that you could words it but if it's only been land from a whole different continents who we need use
a mean you can't even imagine how that's possible so yes in a way I do believe this value that that's been in his own thoughts from like I mentioned earlier when I'm going to take and made the decision to do what I wanted to do i didnt specifically focus on the gender of the people that inspired me but rather the content of their character and the food that they were bearing and for me that's what I want to inspire kids about myself I don't into to say all she's of government for my god that's inspiring I want to see she build such an amazing company or at such an amazing act or whatever or have values and that is what I want them to use to inspire and they and the generation I just don't want it to be a topic around my gender
because that again distract us from what really matters b and thanks to the my name is a comment on I think of the word generation is most the predominant in the hands of women I'm sorry and because their women farmers in Africa would be they to to the from maybe their women mechanics there we may in pilots it's mostly women who interview we meant to ask them about how it feels to be a particular sector I mean the I think it's about time we dropped the whores we may take the because it's not a big deal where he at the back of the community take a special last so alien personally I don't know all the opportunities beat his is breakthrough true if we don't get equal opportunities of course it makes us feel lakes that different but I think the war did nothing we have can be because as in the previous years some aid to today some guys were not allowed to
go to school but by that time we passed through that I think yeah we keep talking about tool much to a point that to ask me feel like I don't really think that previous page 40 it's different place not that we want end least in because they're willing to let the need because we know how to do it so yes the variance exactly on yes that all you guys could talk and the changes that have no other hands hi my name to element from CC of the Nigeria and I'm not sure what is exactly about to see if it's a question if it's a common was going to take a story form I am feel I am intact technically I know
not to code of it but that's not really what I do most of and I guess if we look at the technology is no longer that sector is something that's it's ingrained in almost everything we do but now here's a bit of story about 2 years ago have informal conferences us an edible conference it was open to everybody there was about 500 people at least in out of 500 people there were less than 30 people who were female and I'm including the Google staff and judges who would mean if you know so was really discouraging and I know in CC hope there has been the movement for women in tech
because on 1 hand there is but she mentioned it's almost in our culture that women it was pretty and this at the moment I know my Uncle once told me that he will to hire female crucial should get pregnant and leave so it's not just the technology really everywhere I like authorized to English is encouraging people to learn how to code and it's not just female or male and I think in some way the reason why they're more females coming in whether you like it or not your role model for them and they can see how they can be part of this I understand records coming from but and
I think that you should also take up an active role in being a mentor to them so um last month there was an event goes in a city and I was expecting about 25 goes to show from the university only 7 people show and of the 7 people only 3 of them really wanted to be there to the other 4 were forced by their friends who came and asked was would you want to be there why the 1 writing once a commonly said because the like and because it's a boy's thing and there's a lot of MIS education around this for them and don't get it really I don't understand it so I asked 1 of them was she wanted to do when she says she wanted to open up a fashion show and I said how we day across the messages
that probably through social media and having a sites and I said that this technology right there so what using so I am not sure where this is going I understand that it is right on having a challenge of building a program for women interpreters will use technology on the 1 hand I do not want to create that and I ask them trying to avoid by having a program exclusively for women even though guys can benefit from it but I also do understand and I recognize that there is the bias against an attack and how can I bridge that's how can I not put them in a shell and the it's a girl's of all sort of your going to play only goes and then when he gets the stage where they go out the reward is a wild guess so many guys was less effective how my going to be lower in the world and then I drop out any has stories of was stories of was stories to tell about this and it's really confusing for me because I don't get into that term and the middle because I got into this it but then again to be female the Africa intact you have to be all sorts of crazy why don't we get more people to be that crazy tell them at school to be discrete managers as good thing that I I really is funny is so just just telling his stories is 1 way to look at the players like I said I don't know where I'm going with this I'm just recognizing that whether we like it or not it is that a problem and we need to find a constructive way to address it without we're for the bias and still
making people know that you're going this way too much of female but the question of goods so yeah I don't know I guess I just don't know quite to go over there very 38 so you have and everyone was the next method that brings to mind the idea of how it and women are consumed tech you find women magazines with you know or magazines with this you know this text it's our reviews but freedom for women 1 is that you know what is that you know and it's and it's part of the problem in a way so suddenly you will sell the iPhone to a woman because it has a pink case of anyone tended to have because it's an eyeful you not so this is a problem not just with the entry point it's also problem with a consumption points and if there's a journalist who in the room I please ask you to shut down the women's section for 410 consumption and this led attack attack thank you very much and on to the next person and the from the I'd
just up I want to make it a statement pro feminism in in this case because I can only talk for Germany blood in is it still is a as you said I I feel it's still the situation that women from the from the earliest years earlier stage on there's taught a totally different way than in than in Mayo socialize people are 1st scramble that you know it's it's common boys get a computer or scared uh the the technical legal stuff or whatever and l and I think there's something in the head of the society which needs to be broken before you can and you know can we go to the next step and say OK we don't need to talk about the gender issue anymore and I think it's there if you see the pay wages in Germany women who are on the art form are still the same way as as males are still get a lot lot less uh paid off at the end of the month and from you know what I'm I admire people who who are willing to go on this 1st I admire females who are willing to go over the hard way but I'm not I'm my arm I also think it seems to be something which is allowed you go I understand that louder always the grid but it needs to be allowed because otherwise a lot of people don't listen yeah great I'm I'm I completely agree with you on just like I I kept on saying it's a bigger issue is not about women in intake it's about society and what we're doing I wish I could take the credit for being technology to like and some all some
crazy African woman that did something that is extraordinary but no it's all the people around me that made this possible it's my father who encouraged to me and even the 1 time that I told you you know what I think I'm going to do history I seem to be much better that he told me that you know what I think should be great at physics but if that's what you wanna do go ahead and do that and stuff on the little my dad has ever written to me so but it I just had that kind of encouraging environment around and in my country as well what is you know this active again like to say these this active Porsche was saying 60 per cent or more than that of our population is women we cannot afford to ignore them and also I history where you know a lot of men you know died in wall in jails you find that the main where you know the the breadwinners they work the ones running the on the way the ones that were responsible for everything going on in society so it's how much it's a much bigger issue and honestly I as I respect your opinion tool but it it it really goes beyond just the mean and take its evolution society again we need to understand 6 different says we're not wired like men so the way that your push these things I mean you know going to just no force me to come on stage and speak does what I want to do when you're just going to force me to be part of a have confirmed that define and just a I want to walk in something that's meaningful we need to understand all these things and for me that's the proactive role that they play when I say OK we want with high school girls what is it that matters to them is not just about coding such as about hacking but you know doing things that will inspire them as we men are not because I'm a woman and just that but it's just that distributed and that's a good places said on to give an example of
the tree happening right now just come to believe that I stayed with system brother in Kenya my brother wants me to get human adrenal for the
gift is a gate doesn't trends and my sister was it something else no Atkins detect any opinion is that that's fine I know you would want to get more women tech but that's fine devotes point and I do right here is the and good lake was this if you don't want it to the woman I want us to get to the point and this we when to Russia but that's fine but if you're not interested in text I meant was philosophy is a mock order but as the levels of integrating is amazing and I think we need to I think the conversational removing barriers to entry into technology allow that once you've given someone a choice it's their choice I don't think the was still get into an obsession all we had 50 250 NGOs 50 boys 15 thousand class poses so there's something wrong with that mn universities and option if I chose to do fields of you good knows what else I think that's fine and down by trying a we're making so much foot investing so much money into getting more girls and technology but if I want to to go also set as much and I think we need tools to respect the choice in will be on this thing gets get more we into technology because the energy spectrum choice in if you know what what are we doing that that's latitude
few so people um lymphoma Molin uh and um I'm a member of the the conspiracy those and them when I went to some of the components than you was 1 of very few women and what I found fascinating in the last year there were lots of women only on events from by the cats had the bonds or I think models of the restaurants and there was a good on women's technical conference and he would have found fascinating that will all these events were booked or they were much more women want to go there and well all to get in there and that I I took part of the women's uh that you can't have a canonical component and of the guys that are responsible for the API is very well they were but complaining that they
don't get the real interesting questions but but they did they encouraged the organizers in touch with of women to present any idea of them no matter how long thought it was and I thought that is they came up with a really nice even if they were not high what didn't use all these specific for them in the eyes of 1 of
interesting before I don't see women take when they when they offered when only events they were book also and now I finally found something with a 50 50 women and men and that's the open text will remember the sum of fascinated by that so it's possible some and that's and also spreading something in southern billions betting and on and that if you look at the home page so I think there 2 thirds of female faces and on 1 3rd of ice and people showing up about 50 50 and I really like that song all great that's an interesting example well then I think that was a has a hi I just wanted to hear your opinion on the kind of trend that is going down and research especially when it comes to Internet policy and women as they are at a user's rights in general on the research that gender bias the digital rights and say and it's area how cities an our violating woman more and more of for example or how the Internet is used to um had asset woman now more and more I I want perspective on that OK I'm guessing that started at me the so that by background I a research manager on governance and technology at the I have and yes that's 1 of the things we look at and what's really interesting is this seems to be of what will be termed the global trend that and in different
contexts same kind of for instance of freedoms about their Internet freedom that they're almost like before you know by design and of course there are times and find women are attacked and we found very interestingly enough on that front is when someone decides to start to initiate an attack on the woman it's not about them being an individual it'll be about them and women in general is really about this is what happens when you give a woman a chance you know and so we've seen it's a very I don't know if it's a global template that in in a Kenyan context it's a bit issue where there's lot perpetuating of hate and a way to 1 of what we've been down starts to the individual so someone will attack me say on Twitter and it'll then become about all the women on Twitter or all these women from Nairobi on and it's so in and how they policies is starting to be shaped around that 1 of the 1st things that can government for instance is looking at is of look at legislation that will cops cybercrime which is still a very tricky thing to death and to define and ask you know with hate crime being that hate speech and how does that tied to gender but because of its instances and because there's so many women were actually in politics in positions of power be targeted in that sense that it's a more vocal issue on so this is how I again I can only give a context from Kenya which is very active and very from you know uh you have you know that's a very interesting space to be minus as a woman but what I also love
is that we I think women not waiting for the law to Commons you know uh you know governed so that you can say 0 no you can't do this because the loss is it women are pushing back and it's not
attacking back it's pushing back I'm finding that through conversations happening online in the Kenyan context for instance that moment feminists and they don't know it yet because this so it gets all forced to think into the logic that all the time you realize that this kind of annoyed by heat it's gotten to him because I spoke back so it's also a thing of sometimes you have to speak that sometimes you have to like in this sense but again it's still very much depends of an individual and also depends if those around you so I don't know if anyone here also has a tonight but yes that's a basic but over the Anaheim habit stock talk more about it at 1 about down and I still want us to get as many questions from the 1st possible I just have 1 small comment on that I'll just say that
how we behave online is simply a reflection of 1 but to read like in society and maybe the Internet does provide a new platform a new channel full what to really happening in decided to be perpetuated by its again they still with the real issue it's not about the technology any
more high and mighty and
prevent I am I work with a lot of men and the and then I will tell you 3 different cases and for a society heated University of Applied Sciences and and the moment I entered a class only men engineers and that creates mutation yeah but not because I'm a man because in young and the men and because probably and the way I look at represents an ideal the European way of women to the like and I work with an within an MBA program just 1 month ago it was in Romania and there was 1 participant in all the man who arrived earlier assessment so what brings you here they all I had thing the speaker sheet here that's really interesting and like 0 it's me that I have a K this year and and I have many stories like this so I think we we shouldn't United creates imitation because it's outside the norm whatever the norm is you can discuss about the norm you know to having to be different but it does create an irritation and I think I want to challenge you and to do an act as a role model and and to do except that it there is still unfortunately as you irritation because people have certain patterns of however the teacher and an engineering school should look like and of how um some teaching business should be like a mentor or overnight he a programmer and people have certain models in their had and you do create irritation and I think being aware of that and catching that and and playing with that is very important and also acting as a role model for other girls thing that is important because it is it's the truth values so I would encourage you for instance to offer courses just for pairs and in some environments worked in in Egypt and in November and that it's in Arab countries so I really thought it was important to have a group only of current because they acted totally different when there was low and then working with gender mixed groups was a total difference so depending on the context I do think it makes sense sometimes and to suggest that or even to redesign or reshape the way you work in education and and act as role model because you know you you can't hide it its you create irritation the is we
can't help but be role models whether we like it or not and the I'd say maybe sometimes as being in this space is enough for me do 1 thing or Clarice doing the thing wanted to have thing should be allowed to be enough because then there's also this other level of pressure for women tacticity all your outputs lecture found the body and the maybe that's not what I'm here for and is here to keep doing and by so doing you know opening up more avenues so I think every step of involvement the entails opening up of the spectrum of how we perceive it so that we're not then narrowing the way we should so as I'm expected to be a role model so suddenly I need to give talks at every conference because that's the only way sometimes being here doing what I do I'm opening up more it should be enough but I think it's I agree with you of exactly and
yeah so so they are I mean I think it's the unhappy to just look at it as and here I'm doing it if you think that makes neural model
great but then I should have the choice as I Genesis seem like lasers a after that but then don't let that be the sidetracking thing that I have to do now you know so that people who are happy to do that but sometimes just being there is enough I think is another hand right there they so much for this source and I like I was just ask you so we at our space in Kigali and that we actually have more women than men are generally at the states quite cool but there are clearly instances where I'm just just a couple months you're organizing a major events and everybody applied in room was a guy and then we're talking about all the different people the reaching out to it was all of like your university students make club and I think it 40 students never to women and it was like there's a sort of existential crisis in the room like 0 my god what if we organize so that there's no girls they're like had we had we encourage these
2 girls from the maker group in the university to come and be a part of this project that we're going on I don't know I guess it's something that like were always kind of conscious of like I feel like the skies and honorary and technologists in general like in the in the 21st century were always concerned with like gender issues and other issues of diversity in like is a anything like should we not be concerned about it work if we are concerned about of the things that we should be doing differently or like what can we do as a community organizer members of the community to kind of do something different about the order of and need before she answers your question have to be a comments and we you said senior you call them all women than men in this this which is quite low which takes me back to Larry controversial statement why there being more women suddenly equal when there being Mormon that's all planned so I
think no it took the unrestrained producers what later I just good I think it's called is it indicates that that there's inclusive but people feel the places inclusive like is invited which the like
that that's like the scattering had a similar kind of at think but I'm just saying that we need to kind of 2 July and said yeah I'm in the if you took it would be varsity and inclusion and I'm I'm not trained to because of the honesty and the state see that lets you snorts create the body that it takes meet such that it's not chordal sulphidic it would the field is would 50 50 in that case it was 50 50 if you entity to be 2 to 5 to 25 with athletic goes into into boys then that's all fine that's just my attitude on every I know it's good to lot of but yes that's my attitude was that's exactly what to do now in the field at is with the root cause of the problem and the things you mentioned at the beginning the boat how we socialize I think that's
the root cause of EBV keys so 98 is it's not nautical it's not at all and we about to space them I mean I'll just add page on women only
just learned how to write about 50 years ago you know where and it will take a while before we now learn how to court and them on how to you know do all that make a step in and just saying that some it's about how society yummy structure you know not i'm we originally I education was not fully for women then arm engineering school as stressful guys then it is just a
matter of time before you know we we have more women participating in that make activities that's all and jump in there and yes out what what is said is it shouldn't be a 0 sum game I do wanna participate present it in a space where as we try include more women were knocking out more men right and it should not be a zero-sum game I'm not here for a 0 sum game and the other thing being also this whole grand over you know are you bragging rights is that there were more women i is a bit of as if you ask me yeah I think of this as great what they've said it's if you have a many have women now I shouldn't be the enemy to brag we had more women I think it just creative so what happens 50 years from Africa he that will have 1 male friend you know so it it perpetuates the cultural given the narratives to use and how we define this thing that we're doing if you inclusive of women inclusive of women period you don't need to qualify yourself at that's my take out if you're a man or a woman working in this space the fact that they show that should be enough you shouldn't feel the need to defend the fact that they showed up I believe that makes sense but I hope John we're not saying it's an either or situation it is saying yet not a 0 sum game and am just above we add some context so all this is a fictional from the beginning they Gennady varsity key is in Africa at his intent and run that is very different from the typical European society so some of all comments me I a
lot of the some of the even communities are maternal is a it from the mother's side so our societies very just collected this case still somewhat woman's we not minutes of play but not reasonable range is and it's a big difference to I think we have just in time for 1 more comment and then we'll have to close if they are 1st of thank you to share and everyone it's been very very interested in um these to virtual statements the first one of the law you talk about role models like I don't choose to be a role model assumes a problem about this is that you're right no 1 chooses to be a role model is how the world perceives as many people perceive you is being role models is sort of out of your control and I know it's a huge burden to put upon you heard of what the fear of your the great job of its offensive remarks about the search secondly from my experience recently conference that I've been involved in and that the security arena this have 3 grants for women to be paid to to come to the conference but have been struggling to get people to come to the 3 when to apply for the google grants what I'm worried about this later on people say hey there's nowhere near how how inclusive of this organization uh when opportunities will not taken by myself of treated constantly trying to take a look at some opportunities with people of entitlement and just when you don't see 0 futures and you when the conference it might not just be the case that the organizers of all inclusive nor helping also and
so forth and then maybe the further opportunities not being taken to use but also want to sum up the thank you so much for and these are large and the advent of fantastically tuples as down thank you everyone properties participating I think a lovely ladies sharing their stories and think you the use of a round of applause to everybody thank you very much uh
day when