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Online Radicalisation – Myths and Reality

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high everyone thank you very much for
having me at this conference thank you very much for turning up I before I start in earnest hours a couple of things yeah the 1st is that everything you're gonna see in the next half hour 40 minutes is not only my work is the work of my team and I see a saw a lot of my colleagues help help me do that especially sure Osmania and Charlie winter 2nd point is the
morning the 2nd point is that you don't like this slide it's not going to get much more excited to go away don't wait for the fireworks it ain't gonna happen
the 3rd point is that I'm gonna take questions afterwards and I wanna anticipate probably the 1st question because what I'm going to focus on predominantly is isis and hardest related radicalization that simply because I've been studying that for so many years but a lot of the insights that I'm going to convey to you you can easily transfer to other kinds of radicalization so if you're particularly interested in for example how people become far right extremists than a lot
of what's in this presentation you know it doesn't deal directly with far-right extremism is also relevant to you and the 4th and final point before I
start is that me my colleagues on what happens when not spines with simply collecting open source
information we're collecting with other people reveal about themselves on the Internet and in that
sense we are not experts with talented amateurs and that's perhaps 1 of the 1st insights and myths about online radicalization and about how violent extremists operate on the internet because a lot of people believe that violent extremists online are incredibly sophistic sophisticated beyond belief that the hackers that the experts but in reality there people just like ourselves the a talented damages and in many respects the use the internet just like most people use the Internet the 5 points I wanna quickly go through the fast is I 1 give you a very short
history of online jihadists in a 2nd i wanna explain the ice is online
ecosystem proving that ice is online is not all ISIS but that would I say is gives its own online is becoming a lot from people were not formally affiliated with the organization the 3rd point which is crucial is that face-to-face interaction still matters it's not all about online I wanna talk about the next steps what is next for online radicalization and what I want to conclude by saying for giving a few suggestions as to what I believe we can
do before start 5 important points the 1st point is perhaps the most important 1 the Internet doesn't single-handedly cause people to become extremists or terrorists in nearly 15 years of studying online extremism I can tell you about maybe 5 cases of people who have single-handedly become transformed into terrorists by being on the Internet it very rarely happens the 2nd point is also important is that however the internet has changed how people radicalized clearly the Internet has had a tremendous amount of influence on all of our lives so it would be kind of strange if it didn't also have an effect on how people become extremists date and if you think about how for example suddenly and very quickly attracted thousands of people from all across the world in 2013 and
2014 that would have hardly been conceivable 50 years ago so clearly the internet has an effect and I wanna try to explain a little bit more about what kind of effect its
3rd point would extremist to online is fundamentally different from what the rest of us to 1 actually important point because I want to point out the terrorists of violent extremists find as exceptional as we always think they are in the media they often to
trade almost as if they're people from Mars but in reality of course the other people in a way like us and they're using the internet for exactly the same purposes that all of us using the internet for which is to communicate to create networks to exchange information and of course to convince other people off the ideas the idea is of course a different the content of what they're doing is different but the ways that they interact with people on not fundamentally different
4th point censorship has not solved the problem and has caused extremists to go out and I will prove that it may in fact temporarily help to disrupt their online activities but it doesn't eliminate people do not go away do not seems to exist just because you eliminate them from a particular platform they will go somewhere else and if you decide to do that I I'm not saying you shouldn't necessarily in some cases do that if you decide to do that you have to deal with the trade off their consequences
to your actions and that's my 5th and final point and final argument rather than focusing censorship that spend more time thinking about how to engage
in challenged people on the new word that is countess all how to use the online presence to learn
more about the intentions and capabilities so let's start with a
very short history of online jihadists now of course it used to be all about websites 15 years ago you could find practically every violent extremist organization every important preacher every important figure online we have some kind of web sites they will often being taken down this by whether it was the only websites that al-Qaida ever had only had it for about 6 months but that's no longer true even in the late
19 nineties early 2 thousands of a lot of activities shifted towards forms forms where people could meet exchange information where they could check and of course 1 important consequence of that
was that the rise of these forms made online Jihad stable self-sustaining and as a consequence an impossible to take you could take down single websites but the forms of which there was not 1 or 2 they were dozens of forms they will all linked to each other and even if the authorities managed to take down 1 not site was quickly replaced and all the other forms would link to wherever that form appeared again in a way that's how the internet functions that's what it was created for it is difficult to take down and precisely that function was also used by the supporters of G hunters a 2nd important development with the forms was that the method performs turned on 90 hot into a community it turned them from passive consumers of information on Web sites into people could interact and find each other and we know of course that with movements that have very few supporters at a very rare and in some cases are illegal is usually important that you have a place where you can connect to other people and we know for example from studies that have been carried out by the right wing extremists how important that is if you all right freak extremists in Nebraska in the middle of nowhere someone you may feel quite alone but if you are connected to the forms you suddenly feel while they're a lot of people like me and that is precisely the effect that it has had created a community they were the town squares of had online and the was just talking about violence they was speaking about all sorts of issues religious issues day-to-day issues they were discussing the news they were real communities and for a long time it was a year for research if you want the most important thing was to have 2 passwords for these forms if you'd lost access to these forms but basically in the dark a 3rd important development was that was the mid 2000
a lot more of the continent became available in English and of course other European languages like French and German and it was made to appeal to Western audiences the fast online magazine of our kind of was called inspire it was not only a radical and new because it was in English but it was framed in a way that it actually appealed to the habits of young people in Western countries it contained instructions on how to build a bomb in the kitchen of your mom what's to wear Fuji had how to pack except for except if it wasn't about hard you were looking at
that online magazine you could have thought this was some sort of popular magazine that you could have bought after newsagent around the corner the Omar Hammami was an early example of this Omaha mommy was an American guy came from Alabama who radicalized and then traveled to Somalia and in 2000 11 12 he was the big sensation because he was as far as I know the 1st jihadist who was on the front line was a member of all Shabbat affiliated with al-Qaida was fighting with them and who was alive tweeting his experience now I remember very well 5 years 5 6 years ago all my friends and colleagues were talking to the you see all mommy you could actually tweeted him and he will treat back even though he's in Somalia only a couple of years later that have become the norm but he was someone who was a pioneer in that
regard another development that was important was of course that social media and
I'm putting this graph here because have these platforms on existing rights but those were the platforms
that jihadists were very consciously use and it had an important effect because everything that I talked about before the forms and the websites they would tucked into a dark corner of the Internet suddenly by being able to
be on YouTube and Facebook the content that the hardest produced was suddenly available to much bigger rotten since you could literally stumbled into jihadist content on you tube for example what's often forgotten about platforms like you tube is not only that you could watch these jihadist videos but that you to like other social networks actually also has a social function so you can watch this video and then you can actually get in touch with the person who posted the video you can also start
communicating with people who commented on nitrogen and in the few cases where people have radicalized entirely the handful of cases that I mentioned at the beginning that was indeed the case people got in touch after watching youtube videos
the branding is centralized and
see of course a lot of videos coming from organizations like ices which are very carefully crafted which contains scenes which are super professionally produced so the branding is centralized but the volume
of online jihadism is grassroots driven so ices puts out 3 or 4 videos a day but these videos are then translated people produce means people produce cartoons people tell stories about these videos or they produce new videos using that content and that is being done not necessarily but centrally it is being done by the
grassroots and it is that that gives online jihadism whom this is I think the penultimate development of the emergence of fighting communities what I talked about in the case of Omar Hammami that he went to Somalia fought with all should Bob and that he was tweeting from Somalia is today the norm we have literally or we have literally hundreds of fighters devices life treating from Syria sending tweets
like the ones you can see here miss you in Iraq US troops I know only to the good remain silent persist as I advise you that my Giraud's as he aren't all on the practice the key days so these are all members of ice supporters of ice is a lot of women in fact were tweeting from serial trying to promote their cause and get in touch with other people and then define development is
the shift towards private messaging services that I will mention a little bit electron I was very short history of online jihadism and what some of you may have noticed is that there is nothing exceptional about this story the In fact I told you the story of the Internet's 1st there were websites and they were forms of social media came along and then we had videos private messaging services and that reinforces my point that in fact jihadists a human to yes they do terrible things but the way they use the Internet is not hugely exception they do the things that everyone of us those on the internet and of course whenever a new technology comes around what a new opportunity to promote their cause they're using that opportunity so the history of online jihadism broadly speaking is the history of the Internet over the past 15 or 20 years so what is the ice is online ecosystem today so in 2014 some of my colleagues and I did something very clever even I say so myself we looked at all the fighters who that we have collected it were over 300 fighters in Syria and Iraq whose online social media profiles we have collected and we looked at all the expressions of approval we collected all their lights they're retweets dimensions on Twitter to find out who influences Paul is important for the fighters themselves who do they considered to be authority and what we found out I was actually quite astonishing for the fighters themselves are the most popular the most influential Twitter accounts were of people who themselves want actually affiliated with ice by far
the most important and influential Twitter account and 2014 was this 1 Shami witness 60 thousand followers almost all of the fighters in our sample followed him sometimes received news about the conflict in which they themselves were fighting from this guy who was this guy was he the leader of ice is of course not as it turned out that he was a 21 year old computer science student in bundle India who had never been to Syria and let only read about Syria in the news get what he tweeted became so influential that for the ice is fighter themselves he became the principal source of information and so that's what I mean when I say that the grassroots volume is driven not necessarily by Isis by but by what we call so-called cheerleaders of vices were not necessarily formally affiliated
with the group to most influential preachers for those 300 + fighters in our sample with these 2 guys abil most G. Brill and apple so most of their Antonio to individuals again would never been to Syria and who were not based in 0 this guy in fact is based in Michigan in the United States and this guy is based in Australia by
now a lot of them are offline in fact after we published
our article after we published our research the guy from Australia was complaining about us because he was arrested and after he was released on bail he gave an interview which he says he said the whole mess started last April when the international center of so here my Center released its report and he says something which is half right he says if you know them there's just 3 guys in a basement in London we're no longer in the basement where more than 3 guys but that's when his trouble that's when his troubles son he was incredibly influential guide for ice is he convinced a lot of people to go to Syria but this is a guy who's never been a member of prices and was based in australia literally tens of thousands of miles away from the battlefields of
Syrian that's what I mean by the ice is online because ecosystem when we speak about online let's forget for 1 moment about ice centrally with they put out that's important but would
really gives is a lot of dynamic but people like him who were very important and influential figure you know they don't normally formerly belonged to the organizers the is another important point about which is the importance and significance of face-to-face interactions and yeah should again points out this is really something
that my colleague draws man in London researched very deep
I give you just a couple of examples of this guy his name is if the car German he's from Portsmouth is from Portsmouth in the south of England and he was 1 of the 1st fighters that we came across when we looked online he's someone who went to area in early
2013 and once he had arrived in Syria and he was perhaps in the 1st wave of people were going he was tweeting very proactively he was reaching out to people and it seemed like he was recruiting a lot of people this was 1 of the 3 thousands of tweets idiots and the reason I share so much as to show how it is the kittens landscape hoping to make you see the beauty of it and come and when he was talking to people he often encourage them to get directly in touch with the music scattered please scattered and get in touch with medium and so if you are all in looking at the online activity if you only looking at the at the Twitter account
the oppression you got very easily was that he was a guy who was recruiting a lot of people Viet with to come to
Syria but then we looked deeper and we found out that in fact the people that joined him but not random people we will all deeply connected to 1st of all they will all from Portsmouth this town that he came from and secondly it will all his friends and they were not only his friends but they were actually active in the same group in the same Salafist Group that he had been active fact of this
group of people that you see on the streets
support giving people the crime and
promoting them to you know encouraging them to to join the Salafist Group at 2 thirds of them I ended up in Syria as a result of Iftikhar going for
us fact if you start connecting the dots now spare you the details of that but we've done this very expensive and you see that very large number probably 2 thirds or more of the British fighters went to 0 and joined eyes were connected to each other that 1 to random people people were not recruited online yes they use the internet but the people were actually took the rest to come and who succeeded in going there were often very often in most cases people who had already known each other this is another example
from the Swedish Ice itself you can see everyone was basically related to each other not only because they were friends but in many cases because they were part of the same family as the
example from both book is another person and you you have up to 20 went to Syria 5 people returning 40 people supporters and now of course all of these people were very active online reaching out to people trying to radicalize because the people who turned up would not random people the people who turned
up were exactly the people that use all meeting and the boss but waffles on facebook they were
people who went to Berlin met with
other extremists were connected by Facebook
with them we know that all the people when have been closely friends with foreign fighters
and that whenever people went there was a big celebration so think about this if recruitment of foreign fighters to Syria was all about online why is it that we have clusters clusters in places like was stalling and mentioned lack gasses in Portsmouth Cardiff right it's the same everywhere in Europe you have these very small towns and suddenly 30 people are going from that town if it was only about the Internet that wouldn't make any sense at all because the Internet is everywhere these clusters exist because these people are very close to each other and they close even before the 1st person started on they played football with each other they went to school with each other and they successively recruited their friends to go alternately would really makes the
difference would really decides whether someone is going to go to Syria is not some sort of tweet that you see on line it is a very strong and profound relationship of trust that you have with someone that you've known for many
years and of course the Internet plays an important role in the Internet powers that enables them but it is not the internet that cause them to be radical so what's next what's happening 1st of all as a result of online platforms like Twitter and Facebook basically kicking extremists offline the extremists have not disappeared they've gone to other platforms so today what would Twitter was 3 years ago telegram is to that and that has positives and it has negative the positive is the telegram is a much smaller platforms so must have a much smaller audience the negative is that it is much more secretive is much more difficult to actually listen and follow these conversation if you talk to anyone in the police when the security services today the number 1 complaint is that they are not able to follow these people anymore because they are talking on highly encrypted acts whether you believe it or not most European intelligence services are not able to hack into them so yes 1 of the consequences of picking these people off mainstream
platforms has been that they are now on most secretive platforms that are
more difficult to this and it has positives and negatives but 1 thing is for sure these people haven't disappeared and secondly i and secondly it is not necessarily easier to deal with
the a 2nd important development has been the fact that a lot of the attacks that we have seen recently work so-called remote-controlled attacked so this was the case for the attacks in both spoken and stuff last year in Germany also for example for the attack on a police man in Hanover by a 15 year year-old Salafist in Hanover they were attacks that were directed from Syria Viet private messages messaging services to the people who carried them out were actually getting instructions in real time on what's out 1 telegram onto other platforms and this has become more prominent so much so that almost all of the recent attacks have followed the pattern again is very difficult to actually know what's going on for police intelligence services because quite often they don't have access 1 thing we haven't seen but that that made it may
still happen was some people say we have seen that but on there is a debate around it is of course that extremists all lifestream at terrace tax on not on all the platforms so you know and again that shouldn't be a surprise because it is something that exists and like I said before in the history of online jihadism is the history of the Internet and of course this function will be exploited by extremists as well let me conclude before I take you questions I
with what what we should do in my opinion and this brings me back to what I said the
beginning which is that content removal doesn't necessarily cause extremists to go away it causes them to go somewhere else that may be
positive in the sense that for example and telegram they have a smaller audience
but it may also have negative consequence policymakers talk about censorship they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that taking stuff online will make it disappear it just go somewhere else and there is a constant it may have a destructive effect but it doesn't solve the problem that no single measure no single action or method solves the problem of content removal may in fact be justified in some cases and used but it can never be the only solution is equally important to use online content to learn about extremists and terrorists intentions and capabilities and even more so countering and challenging extremist narrative however the gene not necessarily know a lot about what works and what doesn't and that's you know you know I'm Germany and in Germany facebook is almost as hated as terrible things but I'm I'm I'm happy and proud to say that I am I had become a supporter of the online civil courage initiative which is in fact funded by Facebook which is precisely by trying to find out what works in countering online hate and what doesn't work and I believe we need to learn a lot more about that's in 30 minutes or an idea of what happens and help people get radicalized on that we make the first . last yeah the 1st point was fast people don't single-handedly get radicalized the number of cases where people have radicalized entirely through the Internet is tiny tiny tiny if you want to understand online
radicalization then you have to understand what people are doing offline what they are doing online and of course the internet in able some of them but it's very rarely is the only reason for people becoming instruments thank you very much
fewer than on the speech but maybe we
have some room for discussions so we went that you session of the warts and we have to
what reforms In station at Stage 1 Stage 1 of the 1st microphone over there and there's a 2nd microphone over there and if we have questions please raise your hands so I can see your hands and we can got these
of helpful ladies to you to the microphone array do we have questions from the audience right now OK so 1st questions over there at the so maybe you can
introduce yourself higher interest here for Romania and my question is a bit rather have you observe the bow uh jihadist posting messages not just for recruiting firm the
soldiers were of the world why the propagandistic variety like to convince the families of potential recruits to support prices and the of activities so i'm
is very good question not everything that ISIS puts out in terms of propaganda is directed towards recruiting people a lot of the stuff that they put out is directed for example to branding what they do so a lot of the videos that you see on line will not necessarily be about fighting they will not necessarily be about beheading people quite often they are about describing the life than the color describing how normal everything seems to be a day-to-day life look we have a police force look there people cleaning the streets is very mundane content that is being put out with the aim of branding the organization but also conveying a sense of how normal everything my personal theory about the most brutal videos about the beheading videos is that in many cases they are not actually produced in order to recruit people they produced in order to scare you and everyone here in the room and quite often they are produced in a way that prices can be almost sure that they have been shown on mainstream media in the west I think mainstream media has got a lot clever about this and they are no longer showing these videos but in 2014 Manises was starting to bad people making videos about and you could switch on CNN and it was running 24 7 so ices uses these videos not so much to convince parents but it uses them as a method of warfare it actually tries to produce an effect it tries to terrorize us and that's an important thing about terrorism that a lot of people quite often forget ultimately the purpose of terrorism is not necessarily to kill a lot of people the purpose of
terrorism is to terrorize and you can terrorize an entire country an entire population but posting a video of of 1 person being killed embedded in it has the same effect as
if you kill maybe hundreds of people ices understands that in very consciously uses media as a method of warfare I give you 1 more example
because is particularly telling when Isis took over a lot of territory in 2014 they
took over Kurdish villages in Iraq and what they did very clever before they arrived in these villages they posted on social media pictures are beheadings people of their pictures of torture they were tweeting and conveying a lot of ideas of what they were going to do with the people in that village once they were there and the people in that village consume that information and they left even before ISIS arrived so that when ices arrived they didn't actually have to fight anymore they scare them into the it's if you think about it it's in it's a really clever way of fighting a war which is not to fight the Warsaw this is information warfare and I think that is better at it than you know the west or whoever is fighting we have 2 or more
questions 1 over on about 12 of them a 2nd rower goes stock the TOEFL and many chemicals and thank you for that insightful speech I work as a continent strategists I
found everything is that very relevant and interesting knows ordering and the term counter speech and maybe a successful way to change a narrative that would be really interesting have you know any examples of where actually it's been possible to do that I
know of very limited examples but I tell you when it comes to count his speech the 1st credit you know I promoted and the 1st question because they say the way we the way we've gone about promoting counter speech is actually very antithetical to the way the Internet works the way that we've tried to promote counter speech so far is top-down is governments or it is social media giants like Facebook or Google trying to produce counter speech that somehow reaches people and changes their mind but that's not how the Internet works that's not how the ISIS ecosystem works if it was up to me and maybe someone listens and this ideas is gaining traction in my view there should be a giant context I think that social media companies should give money and they should do a giant contest and say to everyone who were giving a prize of it doesn't even have to be a lot of money can be an internship at Facebook where Google we get prizes to people who produced great videos or great media content ideas and I can guarantee you there will be hundreds if not thousands of people who work at schools were studying who have a lot of time on their hands but who are actually uses of the Internet trying to produce stuff and put it on the internet if you'd you had a question of the week if you'd you had a question of the week and they said this week the question is what's wrong with ice what's wrong with it I can guarantee you within 7 days there would be 10 thousand videos produced by people about that topic of which 80 % would be
absolutely terrible 20 % would be OK and less than 1 % would go viral it and that's
already more than all government-sponsored initiatives and Facebook and YouTube sponsored initiatives have actually achieved a simple context you have to galvanize bottom-up action that's how the Internet works not by the government saying we will we will now commission as social media company to produce something for 100 thousand euros in then maybe in 6 months we have 1 video you can have 50 videos in a week for nothing if you know how to
galvanize bottom-up actions that's I think Howard will be proved and once you have that you can then actually find out what works and what doesn't work because then you can actually
track which 1 of which ones of these videos appeal to what audiences what works what doesn't work because right now we don't even have data because there's so little in that area and so that's my plea I've given that speech everywhere so far no 1 has listen to me and I tell you why this is because
governments don't want to take the risk because people may produce crazy stuff right they may may produce things they criticize the government and
the and and and that's not that's not necessarily something that they want so I hope someone will take the initiative and and think about how we can galvanize bottom-up actions action rather than trying to have a a top-down approach to this which in my view will never work because that's not the end I sort
of a question in the 2nd row and that the 6 stroll and we will have microphones for you at the and so this so expression in memory of this question this question description and discussion I am I non-journalists Thank you for a presentation I have 1 question you said in the
beginning that you are using open source information Menu told us about websites forums and 7 now your mom telling us about telegram which is encrypted How can I what kind of access to you have to to read those chance to get those protocols from lawyers or what is the the exorcism maybe you share across the very
limited and I tell you this arm in 2008 there has been a real change there was I think a golden period in 2013 and 2014 and these guys had no idea what they were doing and they want Syria and everything was open and we were lucky in being the 1st ones to realize that and we started following and downloading the continent also getting in touch with people
and chasing them out on Skype on Facebook and as more and more content has moved to telegram a lot of these opportunities have close down there's still some people from that period period that we're still in touch with to these people help us find out stuff about what happens on Telegraph but we're not directly in telegram so that's really if you
want a period that has that has an and so they they realize
now that being so open about it was not necessarily a good idea the question in row number 6 please
hello I'm in favor of from Beirut and where maybe
too close to whenever you talking about but but I cannot help but have this conspiracy theory in my mind when you talk about the attack on the Kurds villages and what happens 3 days before the 1st election to and friends and I like having this attack on the police officers at the source that is they are they getting that strong are they really that arise in the whole world is there uh a kind of parallelism between these 2 actions and do they really have access to European activists acting upon a political agenda affecting even elections in Europe what's your opinion on that yes excellent question because that's
again it goes to my point which is that I'm a in a lot of talk said ideas on the board this young there's always this statistic you know like someone brings up and the thing goal and so clever more people die in the past clubs were fall from windows or something like that then die from acts of terrorism that's of course true but it's also a profound misunderstanding of what terrorism is chosen is about terrorizing people and only 2 weeks ago I was
in I was in Paris in fact when I was speaking to the head of prevention terrorism prevention of the French government and he said to me the act of terrorism that had in her experience the most profound
effects on French people was not the attack on the particle it was not the attacks that killed a lot of people are the most profound attack was that the heading of the priest inside of the church in normal and that was filmed and that was promoted because that was something that a lot of French people found so profoundly shocking and that it really changed their mind that was back again to the point that I was mentioning before that ice is understands the psychology of terror better than any other organization and what they've also proven is that the understand the fault lines within societies better than any other terrorist organization the reasons why the attacking Shiite mosque in Saudi is because they know that that is the best way to create turmoil within that particular society and they know exactly that if you managed to incite a refugee in Germany to carry out a terrorist attack that would have profound political consequences in this country and that's why they are trying so hard they understand the politics of every country in which they are attacking and they know that the only way they can achieve an effect is by polarizing society through their terrorist attacks in France they almost succeeded they didn't think God but they knew exactly what they were doing you know I think they're trying to activate those fault lines within society I don't think that's a conspiracy in some cases they've actually said that very explicit I saw a couple of questions so there's
so on the 7th row please yeah uh moms momenta um I'm not really agreeing with you on that secures
the you mentioned before that what you found this is more the way ISIS words as the use developing system it develops somehow and it has a huge amount of out and I notice through my research maybe you notice yourself as well that might want to have 2 years ago there was a drop in the amount of violence being shown the years and it's kept going up again shortly after and I think this is mn could be um rat as um like research on their side they did put out less and less violent videos and get less and less traction and so the realize of well the the the use of get the cliques from our audience and Western media is the violence so it's
not this plan the develops I I would say it's more an organic process where it's a self-fulfilling and self enabling and improving the way I uh I don't actually disagree with you I think and you're probably right you know and that's the Kabylia on did definitely strategic priorities that they're pursuing and so 3 years ago for example when they declared the caliphate the priority for them was to convince people to come to the kind so a lot of content and the propaganda was describing life in the color it was basically saying to people who don't believe what you hear in the Western media we're showing you street scenes from Morocco for muscle and you can see life as normal here people can lead to an neck about they isn't Taylor and people have normal jobs you can come here bring your family and you can have a happy life in the you told me that was a very important theme of Isis videos for a long time but that's changed of course if you've listened to the speeches of the self-declared can affect a counterfeit of background about diving he's no longer calling people to come to the Caliphate he's saying to Western supporters stay awake long and fight against the unbeliever way wall and for that purpose of course it is much more useful to actually directly promote violence rather than showing them pictures of rock and muscle in the streets so I do think the answer to the strategic priorities that gets reflected in the individuals but you're definitely right in saying that sometimes supporters take these things and do their own things with and sometimes things become almost self perpetuating and the priorities are shifting without being fully under Isis's control and I'm certainly the first one to say that we shouldn't over interpret some of the claims that ice is doing because as you say quite rightly there's an entire ecosystem there lots of people involved were not necessarily formally affiliated with sizes and they do their own things my
soul to more questions so I want to the left and 1 in the 2nd row to the right so maybe start with the 1st row in years so the 1st research and we will have plenty of time for questions thank you so man and said Michael this task think of as time talk and in the beginning you said something interesting you said that the money in the beginning as the as I like the would allow I learned a lot but in in in the beginning you said that if you compare like right to we extend and extremists will select ISIS terrorists they are pretty close so what it's like they are motivation all what I like the
similarities between these 2 groups so it would not in
relation to online all overall the motivations so what I'm Monte these young men and women to long I think that's the 1
million dollar question and I think that we need
that we need a little bit more time for that but I wanna give you 1 bit of information that so I think it's pretty important would all forms of experience and I think that's important to listen to for everyone with all forms of extremism have in common and this is something that I am a colleague of mine from Singapore set me and it really stuck with me he said to me on he said to me some years ago as not particularly new astonishing but it's true I for all forms of extremism have in common what makes them extremist is that they are massive identity reduction exercise would extremism
does to you is to say to you might you're not just German eurowoman you're European and you're from what whatever time it says you you don't have multiple identities
you not many things you just 1 thing in your area you're a muslim you'll whatever I pick your form of extremism and that 1 form of identity is everything that defines and through that whole of identity you define everyone and everything else you're not a Muslim I cannot be your friend you're most them I can can what kind of most of our OK of the right animals I can be your friend you reducing your entire complexity as a human being to 1 thing that's what that's what extremism and that's what all extremists have in common and ultimately all propaganda and all persuasion everything that extremists due to convince you to be on their side is directed towards you buying into that idea that there is only 1 thing about the Nazis they're doing that in exactly the same way the jihadists and that's ultimately what all forms of extremism have in common in terms of online I think you can see a lot of the mechanisms of recruitment and radicalization ultimately very similar if not the same but again they are all basically came at massively reducing the identity
and that's why everyone was multiple identities we should celebrate we should celebrate that it's a good thing to keep it
so I think we have time for more
questions from last questions were from the 3rd
row and then your question what hello when Instagram Missouri among theory much some have just 2 questions you
research regarding go these groups in the online sphere of
some have your under this that and the rule of all of the different groups like the paradigm they're Irish there have there's different strategies and they're fighting each other so how is it to of in their strategies of their differences so pulse them online the recruitment and how they that explain this kind of uh fights and the 2nd question is how does the islamic people the react on the other hand is for just 2 as you say counter speech so others through the use the initiatives from from from the grass root of white and there a compass which is the correct
OK on the 1st question they definitely differences and again you can perhaps over rate fast but in my observation having followed the rise of Isis Over the past years yeah you can certainly see that ISIS was the most aggressive group online it was the 1st group that published stuff systematically in European languages for example in English
French German appealing to Western audiences have courses would ISIS had and the other groups didn't have
was this utopia the
so-called Calif it could actually show straight it could actually showed towns that were governed according to the rules that they were promotion and it basically said to al-Qaida uses you know you've never you you you talked a lot about the kind of thing we've created here there's you can come and join and live here and you can bring your family you can migrate you can make a drive to the kind of thing so they have something very tangible to talk about in their propaganda where's the other groups there is also another difference because I ISIS actually was very the it it's requirements were very low basically said the Caliphate is open to anyone who agrees with our print even if you converted to Islam yesterday you can come to the kind even if you don't yet know how to pray and you can come to the Caliphate and we will teach al Qaida and its steering affiliate young reference they were more demanding they didn't accept In fact um me and my colleagues we went to Turkish border towns in 2014 and we spoke to a lot of people including members of a loss for us and they said when we accept someone we want to have good
references we want that the person is really religious that she's not a
criminal we want to see that he has some ability that he can be useful for us
and a lot of people who turned up with ices well actually turned down by a for so they had different recruitment strategies and were was much more demanding in terms of the quality of people that they would accept it and you can see that very clearly also in the propaganda a lot of the propaganda coming from ISIS is almost like a gangster typed propaganda a lot of things that are Nostrand al-Qaida would
fundamentally disagree with because they think it's basically dumbing down a very sophisticated theology from their
point of view so there are differences between these groups on on the account speech that
is counter speech coming from us in groups and the counter speech that comes from us
some groups unfortunately is not very effective and there are I think tool main reasons for the 1st reason is that a lot of muscle groups that engage encounter speech it's almost like the dead once to be successful in the internet he doesn't know how to do it he doesn't know how to engage young people online a lot of content that is being put out by official Muslim organizations so it's kind of OK but you can see how it's not very exciting and how a 17 year old would not engage with that kind of comes the 2nd point in the 2nd problem with a lot
of countries which coming from a small organizations is that it is very theological so they are arguing with the texts they're saying would
saying is not actually properly Islamic and here's the explanation he is a 70 year old shake explaining to you why the theology is not correct and of course that's not why people join ISIS they join nice because it's exciting because it gives them strength and power because it's an adventure because they can fight for
cause because they can have weapons because they go over there they are no longer with their parents theology comes into it but it's not the most important thing and so I think a lot of the attempts to convince people purely with theology have failed because it's for and I think groups benefit actually from the set of tutorials that are being offered by Facebook by Google by other organizations essentially teaching them how to produce an attractive video on like but there's not enough of that I agree with you but it's not because not necessarily because they don't want to it's often because they don't know how to we're almost running out of time but we have time for 1 last question so thanks a lot i markers and draw list and I would like to ask about their online the radicalization um you said that the radicalization is mostly will mainly working by our friends like the environment so is it possible that that on ID radicalization is not working at all um don't get you will have I mean if if I can give you on the at
1 would perhaps students and you know I take that is to look up an organization and and I have to I confess that it was founded by a former student of mine and it's not very successful is caught it's called moonshot and they do countering violent extremism online was a guy called Ross friend and the 1st thing he will tell you is that is very important to be active online and that it is possible to capture people online but that once you have started a conversation with them online and you have to bring it often you have to use the internet as a means of getting in touch with people and establishing a 1st contact but ultimately D radicalization will happen if you encounter that person face-to-face just like radicalization happens to this place to use the Internet to actually get in touch with these people but don't expect that just by doing a chat with them they will be the radical that's not as easy as not as thank you very much you that all of
us but you also
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Online Radicalisation – Myths and Reality
Serientitel re:publica 2017
Teil 219
Anzahl der Teile 235
Autor Neumann, Peter
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/33037
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2017
Sprache Englisch

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract In seinen Analysen legt Peter Neumann die komplexen Verstrickungen und die Vielseitigkeit von Radikalisierungsprozesse offen und demonstriert die Bedeutung von sozialen Netzwerken für den internationalen Terrorismus.

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