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Digital Democracy: E-Voting for everyone?

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1 works great OK so 1st of all thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here in Berlin with those great to come back in to the German capital but what we're going to talk about is actions a topic that seems quite
to the current but actually it's a topic that has been discussed in 1 way or the other over the past 150 years and that is about how we can make use of an electric or electronic algae to make participation possible and that's all means what I mean by that is actually how can we recorded boats in the middle of comic way and uh we have collected the quite nice panel together so uh I'm a professor in Estonia but originally I'm from Austria and I've been dealing with the topic over the past 20 years but there are even more distinguished colleagues here that know more about the topic that the will double introduce themselves in a little bit but 1st I will save breathing to was the uh Chief of Staff of the Estonian election comity we have the dumbest through their own uh from Porteous and into the body provided here in Germany and we have tending to months uh was also working on the topic from a more broader perspective and have Stephanie planted year in the background of us uh being connected to us from also in Canada 140 couldn't travel to be here but even more so great that we can have the by using the technological possibilities so I so before we go into sharing all of your experiences and positions but why is away we talking about the topic today in Germany uh the use of technology in election has been quite a frequent topic already in during the 2nd world war 1st ideas about using mechanical machines appeared and in the 19 sixties the system bombs that was actually used as a mechanical device to count votes and in the nineties we even use electronic voting machines which Bennett later states that were abandoned by the Constitutional Court of Germany because of the reason that there should be a publicity to the lectern I'm sure we will hear more about that in a but nevertheless there Back then German Minister of Interior Otto Schily said in 2001 maybe in 2010 we will have the promise the site selections using the internet however we 7 years later and there are obviously some issues that have been resolved by now and there was a race in the 2 thousands that action was won by Estonia and without any given you I would like to ask a to give a short overview about experiences that Estonia could collect with interval is below uh really quickly some words about dystonia broke the estate in my experience with we have 5 for some years already but 1st of all I am made of this their national uh electoral office that's responsible for organizing all elections in in Estonia and have been with the elections so for some time already beginning 2005 and with uh already the 1st the elections that would have at that that point for my prof profession imitation is that Europe with scientists uh profession so I'm going to talk a bit more from the social science aside from the organization and from the time of the place the side over of thinkers as such but we have also technical experts here on the planet today or so as already said is still a start in their 1st Internet elections or remote voting by using inter means in 2005 and that those were local collections and from that point form from the 2005 election on we have had 8 elections in 8 consecutive sections and in all of those elections uh instantly because been 1 part of and that has been now 10 years and then this year in there in no October the 9th he enable election will take place in in in in Estonia the decennial ease the robbers more country you might know we are just a bit more than 1 million inhabitants 1 . 3 million people living in this uh those people can vote since there was a elections about million people and for 1st and then the task was being we we important to catch every vote to get every vote search to take part in the possibility to take care of their their due to such and in in that's mood throughout the years we have all of us have
features for that we will have quite a long voting period at the moment it ranges from from my uh 1 week before the election day even even before 10 days before Election Day already starting to hand than anyone on election Sunday so for a 10 day period it's possible to vote and during that period on a seven-day period it is possible to different what all of our paper voting stations favorite impossible it is made based on the same so at this point and look at the lost elections we have uh in 2015 the the parliament elections once the votes were given electronically and 2 thirds on paper so we see that even doubted whether that point of approximately 30 per cent of the votes came in electronic why Estonia Estonia is a country that shows on were rather early stage 2 arms have a quite large encompassing e-government system that is based on the idea infrastructure the everybody in a certain has and the bookie ID capable of
identification in their pockets so everybody is able to i'd instigated themselves in in the online environment security and trustworthy uh and that's the main argument the main reason why in the very beginning that the program was started that we have a lot of e-government to solutions with lots of different possibilities for the vote for the citizen torture communicate with the with the government uh VOTE channels and Internet voting is just 1 addition and 1 % although the e-texts iterations or a year e-banking Assad short e-signatures all different different possibilities the fact that the EIT infrastructure can be used the uh what whether we use in the very beginning why actually we are mn opted for such a possibility of course not found in Estonia but elsewhere the turnout version whether we should raise the to not whether we will return should at least be the same and that was also raised in in in the very beginning work throughout the years what would how would we have see what have actually scientists seen as doing these 10 years we have had no and integrating these that the impact on turnout the them out of true strength they impact on turnout this are around 5 % so aerobic class but there is a model for the theft part where it has an impact these the Congress comfortability power but it is a voting duty or the possibility that made it easier for the voter to take part in of course it's also easier the the the comfortability comes into play when voting the road voting from somewhere we reform away from the possibility that it it used to be you you have to go the embassy of 2 to the post into embassies and of course for those people who have disabilities for example for a visually impaired people move before moving in that paper for those people it provides huge avenues for taking part in in in in elections what have scientists found out actually is that if you go into the painting station and back takes more than 30 minutes then the chance of using internet voting spirals that this 30 minutes on round trip so to say to the polling station even where reimported feature what the scientists have also found out that it converges a realistic he voting method once you use you keep using it
and you don't revert back to the paper writing although a lot if not most of its are actually form a paper voters maybe this opted for another possibility that's more comfortable for them and what if for example integrating would be published in instead most likely they would not vote back to it great thank you for this interesting insight might turn right through stephanie stephanie due had produced a shared with a few Canadian experience you see something similar like this 30 minutes that make a difference whether you to the bold
enough not and what we actually area something very we can you just up having a pet so and they signed by team antivascular need participates Nadia sky by Nolde sometimes use and technical article difficulties that everything seems to
be going well and we really appreciate the opportunity and I shall also undertake technical who's really the architect behind all of this research and she really is a superstar just the Mason trying to put everything together and and and what we find in Canada have a and so as you know 10 is that Germany and have a lot of levels of government the federal level provincial and municipal level and we have another layer of indigenous and dominance and cell and what we find is the taking Internet voting is really happening at the local level at the municipal level at the indigenous level and there hasn't been the same sort of enthusiasm that create was talking about at the provincial or the federal level and in Canada we recently probably allow for a good chunk of 20 16 had data elect Toral modernization and committee that was formed you guys may have heard about it they talked about possibly getting rid of our 1st past the post system and modernizing other aspects of our electoral process creates actually came to Canada for a big conference the Hellenists arms and and there was some discussion about and using Internet voting for what they call special populations of people in the military ex pats students were away at school at people who would normally have to use that be a mail-in ballot or who would not be at home after polling day and the other aspect was the disability aspect G also touched upon in people who were at the homebound words it's very difficult for them to you add get to a polling station and also to for people who as you know can is quite big and we have some writings which is and how you elect a member DA your writing I was writings there you know this sigh Switzerland we have writings that our size the small European countries so for people to leave their home and like to talk about the 30 minutes to drive the 40 minutes to the polling station quite cumbersome for them but we do have good broadband in Canada so the idea Nijman voting was very popular for those people but again we have not seen that there's various reasons for this which I can get into later that provincial and federal level there just hasn't been the same sort of cheerleading for Internet voting on that we seen at the municipal and that the indigenous level but at the indigenous minister level every time there's municipal elections in the province of Ontario we see more and more municipalities adopting nests and in Ontario where I let others it's a big summer cottage country area and cell and in some of that means how these were they have a lot of people have cottages these really taken up Internet voting to test people live in the big city but they have a right to vote for their own property in the means where in the cottage areas and soul and those whose Palestine and you know voting with great enthusiasm thank Stephanie for that of account from from Canada it's so it's a must somehow the less densely populated areas of really supporting this on that so with that take Thomas could you maybe higher little but to
us on technical possibilities for into and it's great to be here so I want to add to this discussion the and more technical perspective it's about how to achieve this the promises of the 20 folding we know what with hurt it's convenient it's useful now the thing is how to provide the technology truly provides a solid solutions for this uh the 1st mentioned by myself in synonymous for much to the wrong I'm from Polya's and policies on evolving company located in this the city of building so this is very nice to be here and our mission is to bring a volt and technologies to bring working evolving solutions to our customers ranging from the public and private organizations like universities political parties that the cooperative banks and and many many different bed with mission also to reach to binding legally binding political public elections that ends in particular in my Drupal they're doing practical are we focus on 1 very critical aspect of the whole thing which is security and and wondered about security you know electronic vaulting specially on my evolving when people cast their ballots over the Internet all the threats that and the possible Internet-based system faces a applies also apply also to our to our case and on top of that we also have very specific security policies that are required and that we and it's reasonable to enable the system has to provide battle of privacy and also has to provide what we call integrity as we want to be sure that the election was covered correctly that the result is correct and this integrity the interface of all those different threats is something really critical crucial to achieve ends you know it's not only that we know that that our system this is well constructed it's it's also about convincing everybody's of others hard it's not about trusting the vaulting provided so in to be cleaned the voting will this thing is we need to provide some kind of evidence so that there is no doubt that there are no doubts that the result is correct and we could for example things up if we are able to provide evidence which is compelling to the losing party to the Moser that's she lost family then this is the model of of the of verifiability of integrity really aim at it and what it seems to be completely clear is that we cannot achieve this amount of security that just retreating evolving just on and the regular service we need to reach for some special techniques and we it's definitely clear for for us right now that we need strong cryptographic that that he could and which are non-trivial which are uh developed in the recent years and maybe to to give you some some glimpse into the way we think about security you know we have all those threats like for example the fault
clients platform can be a hacked can have some malicious software right then the server sites can be had maybe some some adversary hacked into the server and maybe modify the software on it uh those of the those attacks possible and and and so on and so on and that he focus on 1 thing if we assume that world we cannot really ruled out complete view of the service of the uh election committee or hacked into and how and so then the the hacker can maybe modified the accounting software right and may be replaced by something else and how then can we trust the result of election in the situation as it seems to be completely crazy to processes of so 1 completely off on notion we we often use it so called for full independence which essentially means that if some of the hacked into our system and modify the software and this cannot be noticed it means that the result cannot be changed this is maybe not so so what I will rephrase it if some of the modified our software we had we may have only 2 kinds of out either this modification is completely neutral meaning it doesn't change anything essential results
still correct all the 2nd outcome is well it's not neutral but then we can notice it and not only weeks kind of public noticeable we have some means some some techniques that an observer maybe running completely independently developed software the based on public you know algorithms can detect any manipulation which is critical meaning which make changes so this is the kind of mine we'll be there having an and for this we reach to new research to whatever the current cryptographic recover from my and our goal is to combine those into a system which that provide this kind of thing so that this kind of high levels of security without revealing anything about how also like keeping the price of so the must thanks for trying to explain the issue of having a secret elections while still preserving integrity which is really crucial in quite difficult and maybe I'm turning away and turning out to ending that how do you see that I mean that it's in a voting has been debated quite critically in the public and late this of course also the Constitutional Court
ruling was giving further notion to that so what problems to use the word into the voting yeah forcible hello my name is tending to among study computer science and during my study was variance in the voting machines and an arm of independence of a developer and mind board member of 264 Centre for Digital progress which is
a German NGO and the well the main thing about this debate is trust trust in democracy a trust in voting machines and trust in everything that's happening with government in the election and and and parliament and an ensemble self and the very poor old technical digital guys so if if we can have a digital tool for something I'm all for it normally and I'm very open for digital platforms that I tried to get opinions on whether people ask for something or other but I like you like pizza other like cheeseburgers and you can vote for something and you can we trace that whether you know you voted for cheeseburgers of you voted for pixels but it's getting more and more complicated when secret thoughts so how do you know that the counting within the machine was corrected set you can you can find that out I would like to know how good you can talk about that later I and and defend recording and that the Federal Constitutional Court in Germany ruled that the main subject of the main arguments for the a not allowing voting machines in Germany is that everybody has to be able to read count uh what has been done during the voting process that means everybody without any knowledge you have to count that's the only thing you have to do but can take the sheet of paper and count in come in come and see whether the the result was correct and I think that's from 1 very important issue when it comes to trust when it comes to not being something that is but only for professional people that can deal with when you no source codes that can deal with computer programs and all that everybody can do it everybody can go to the can afterward sale and trust with do results are OK let's recounted and them talking about manipulation and the the opportunities for for you know the bad guys to to do something I trust that you and other countries tried to make the best voting machines or online voting systems as possible and I don't think that this is something this is a bad and a bad idea to do something that but and you can't allow it to come as you said kind of texts attacks on you know everybody has read a lot of things about computers being being infected and so it's your system works on the browser right you don't need a special software and so this is no verification within and uh the system itself on the client side but there's also a problem you can't when you use when you use some of the software kinds of Norton also provides only the browser you cannot use and gender encryption and all these things that can make some the process of or the prose of communication a bit more safer so all in all I think it's OK to to with the use of such systems and small ways if you're gonna clap and you want to elect whether you're a you was next chairman and the club is so we find to do that if you wanna do that but when it comes to general public elections but when it comes to some topics that the whole public is so skeptical at the moment and and will be probably the next few years why are we trying to to and make it even more untrustworthy although I trust them that they make good suffer but I don't think it's like I don't know it in Germany and it is like the United States or other countries where to stand in line for knowledge pin to cast a ballot I mean you go all this you said is like 20 minutes go all the cast a vote go home it's a social experience as well so boarding is not only like the cast your ballot is also social experience by casting a ballot by counting and by reporting so I think that for general public elections it should be pen and paper that thanks hunting for the statement and already going to what's the 2nd round and setting the scene for that so how do you see the role in Germany all of your personal
perspective but before we do that I would like you to think of some questions because then will open the floor you can in the meanwhile so you don't forget it with its with the hashtag Folios and that will also have an account of that and will might be able to take them also in and the variants collectively but think of question already so now I tend to create how do you see the that the role of Internet voting in Germany out of the Estonian experience yes it's all a very difficult cost to actually compare something that is not compare and because the
no but what we have all of the same throughout the years is that you can't take into that called separately from the rest of the government system from the context this in and from all the tokens in the infrastructure it and the key word here is trust and set trust the most important factor for the vote actually deciding whether you sheesh users into voting all goes to the police station and that has been also confirmed by the way studies that term you don't build that trust simply by offering such a knowledge idea but you build the trust throughout all the eGovernment and solutions through all of the infrastructure varies so that's where all what message has been from this sentence at all has been that it should not be copied straight away from our side to in any other country all is the context should be taken into account and the same should apply also in the the joke work on all of although I think you really recently on Germany opted for some compulsory ID documents so I think this is really a step forward it to building this these basic framework in in in in having a broader understanding 0 trustworthy or the station for example in in the mail on online 9 9 on and word so I think it can be done would also sought some shows all the the Swiss cantons the production use the system show that it can be done what the what Canada should work with the stuff talked about and and Australia would be used to be also in a bit different form also in in in France for example it it's 8 in every country it's just a different different so different solutions different understanding what secrecy is even more so can be trusted about what cannot be trusted so we can't take the same measures working in Estonia and put them to test here here in in Germany so Germany has testified that way no Stephanie what can candidate of Germany and the way I
want adjustments and backtrack a bit and talk when handing was talking about answer the social aspect of elections 1 surveys we've done on it shows
that the people who were most likely to use an encoding are actually quite older they're 45 + they're very well established in their careers of any sort of see Internet voting is seen as something they do online along with the online dating and they're booking their children soccer league you know it's just a part of the administrative paperwork of essentially being in adults and and then we find with the younger generation acid the Millennials they actually really do enjoy the aspect of going to the polls in casting their ballot in taking a cell the outside and have you know a hashtag I voted outguessed anyhow direction remains elections the province of British Columbia and they had these adorable little stickers you can get once you voted that's that I voted with the British Columbia flag and it was hugely popular it's if you guys and look for the hashtag online so I just want to recast sort of confirming anything Canada it is the same idea that voting is a bit of a bit of an experience and you know people come watch the bad people cast that might count the ballots afterword z and there's also this aspect which we have Canada called the chain of command so you have to be able to you by government regulations key these dark keep electoral documents for 7 years you can go back at any time we tell the bells there's any sort of problems on so people sort of like the idea that there is some way of verification with a paper aspects and but also to just to answer your question I'm when I was talking a bit about the at lower the stakes the greater use there is the Internet voting and when we what we see intense there's been a big uptake in our use of Internet voting for leadership contest so right now a conservative party here in Canada is doing a big leadership contest and they will be using online voting to elect the next leader of the Conservative Party so certain on the lower the states have new election the more likely they are to use Internet voting which is probably why we see on a much smaller scale but it does provide a lot of innovation in the sense that have a lot of internet indigenous communities are sort of creating their own methodologies for how the officer populations votes and along the municipalities are designing on verification systems I'm sure handing in can talk more about this than I can that have on the technological side we really do see a lot of innovation coming from the smaller an electoral elections so Tom much do you see a
spillover actually from the non political elections and features that into the voting provides the also to political ones in Germany what is I think of this will come what I
think of Germany the the sentiments in Germany when it comes to voting or very much on the conservative side right now and I think that it's actually not so bad I think that indeed in many of the objections of hand involves a completed the diplomats and we need to address them we need to discuss the I believe that I will be able even today maybe to address some some number of of these objections we consider for 5 hours and probably I would be able to convince you in some points but also I'm quite sure they will be able convention called the point in which they will be something that we are I believe not quite ready when it comes to the highest level political elections when we may think about some state that the actors involved in that would like to interfere in the elections I think there's some where we have to have to do so I think of a good way that it was the way I see it in order to introduce revolting broader scale is this kind of bottom up approach when we uh get accustomed to the technology when we explain how it works when explain what is the strong point strong points of the technology and when we also discuss the weak point and how we need to simply understand the risks we cannot pretend that they've don't exist and then we need to do our homework and try to solve the problems so I think that lead starting from the lost they collections educating people about cryptography then explaining people how it works and why we can trust and what distrust was the trusted that's the way so we need to take into may be small but well thought through steps little and what do they think of this building step by step experience thank you it's difficult because um yeah of course as I said you can do it within your clock were within your organization that you have it's always you have to compare it with the human convenience you won't have like security and trust and complete trust in what has happened to give an example of the use of the Democratic Party has tried to use of voting systems for their own body could party was the main parties but I just put up of galleries yes and and the in 2011 2030 and 2050 and um they use that for a of voting the board members and a chairman and in 2015 and they try to use the system and it turned out that there were more votes collected than people in the room and how could that happen so and maybe was an error in the system or there was someone trying to attack the system we don't know and the problem there was I talked about the later work was like were the results in 2011 2013 religious who knows so there are no people there's there's no paper to we count the steps so what sigma got way was voted Chairman was it was the voting process legit we don't know and then if if it's like in your local small football club where both the chairman of the football club and we can maybe some people living somewhere else dichotic has developed a when there uh and an accent and about about what they plan and we can talk about using systems it it's not that bad is if something goes wrong but you know when it comes to 2 parties when it comes to democracy when it comes to Parliament's and very skeptical of whether we should take that risk and yeah so thanks hunting and I'm
sure that race already quite some questions with you in the audience and also probably also around the topics of verifiability at the try to answer some of those questions so please just raise your hand and think of it and and maybe you you sale so a little bit about yourself and then told you address this question in auto um menus and you can know I'm a loss and so on and Allegis addresses to the round years the of my question is so why is the necessity for it it's 4
in Germany for example I mean on 1 side talking about talent back in 2007 you were mass we and it almost crippled your entire system so I mean that gave way to the top manual on how to public
laws appliable to cyber warfare etc. and in Canada I don't know how from I guess the so in not so densely populated areas it may in fact have a sense to bring of the voting in but in germany at a we at the far post all voting you can go online click on you get out of and then you get your balance in there before the audience OK and on the other side and low like room from the engineering said it's also that like the Teutonic you know like this this is going to happen to me and said yeah we know what happened and in what was the necessity for you know like really I mean yeah of course you need to make money and but that's the only real thing that comes to my mind fragments of white boy is the necessity for Germany y so let's collected to 3 more questions I think the question for the needed for a needs based approach is very important thank you and my diane from our low to which is also in and net Internet policy and jails and allow it
to on the 64 I also have a question to all of you and and I'm also a Russian citizen and when I go to vote in the embassy in Berlin and they have a kind of dual systems all I I I I cast the ballot on a computer and then they print out a little bit of paper so I think apart from that I don't trust the Russian system in general I think that's kind of you know making it easier to count but also there's some kind of accountability so if I wanted to I could go back and see how many times that the name was printed on a piece of paper that I vote for so my question is to you maybe some kind of hanging and some kind of dual system would that be sufficient do you think and to the others do you know of those kind of systems and maybe that could also work here the cost of 1 more question
maybe we can just press had opened door my name is Derek concept I work for an online debate
platform Callaway you actually could debate with you cheeseburger or not on the list several years abroad in Korea and I always have problems voting for German the elections so it strikes me as somewhat useful in certain instances but I wonder what security of course and that's why would 1 what different systems and different technology behind it and whether we have some experience in Estonia on Canada that point so why some system this period and the other than what aspects the crucial questions I'll give some the cluster
question for this random animal another round of questions the hello I'm minister I have a question and also a common I
mean I think there is some sort of need to not necessarily to introduce the voting but to do something because the system doesn't work very well right not many people and it depends on the election but usually the percentage is rather low of people voting on and so that there is this question who is actually participating in democracy and who is shaping this and also the issue of trust that you mentioned is really a thing that needs to be addressed that so many people are so skeptical about it and and that I don't know if on voting is the way to do it but there there is a need to do something about the system I think so I can it is actually a question for those who have already experienced with it also on a local level do you see that there the that you'll reach that can reach out to new groups are a people or a people with them and the of those who were formerly among link was more difficult disable people or some people in rural areas is is a way to include those because if it is possible I mean I think that there is a the then we can say that there was a need and there's something really good ability OK thank you very
much for this question so we have raised the question about why would you action needed the what Canada dressed and is it actually useful for for Germany than there
was a question about if there is a possibility for an individual verifiability can check that what you have voted for Bush was recorded by the system matches what you have you in your mind if that would be something that establishes trust and then we have the question about the possibilities to engage voters of brought right so maybe to to another to 1 another but addressed what they feel like address there really quickly some things have already been also addressed the starting from the from the and that so uh
those groups that have been this and enfranchised before specificity specifically you because of the barriers that exist people with disabilities people know what ought to live to fall from mouse skin to operate various they benefit from that people living abroad living in i the states for example I where you walk on on on the West Coast and and the old embassy in all cases on on these and and and and in order to vote you have to go there and poster voting is also marginal from uh that for sure has brought the numbers of from the Estonian experience what we have seen unfortunate Internet voting and low is not the sole purpose that the people will turn out that those people direction voter tonically our former paper voters sure were voters those in between this helps us to say who sometimes right sometimes but they tend to vote more because it's a losing more convenient less barriers for them but those who were formerly did not also don't don't within because they offer incentives they need other reason the but the policy that the critic and that's uh some of the reasons for it to come out and you don't songs of the salient nation the with a similar political dimension and that it's the simply does not work then in in that way and really quickly about the technical issues yes in 2007 a month after we had internet voting and for totally other reasons there was a massive state or its safe state organized state actors involved the in those some this over text and that motivated us even more to make more there ought to be better prepared for for things to come in and and the source of the important factor to understand that you don't see it from the Morris from the beginning we change to the system before where election after election we try to be on the same footing with all the risks and possibilities that come from the year of their own environment so to be ready for the possibility that that they're all but if something happens we have paper voting people can revert back to thank Stephanie can say
maybe something about inclusion aspects of Internet building firm been yeah I
was just when I was saying to the question they were just a Canadian perspectives so I you know politics in Canada is pretty young if I dare say so and so and we don't have the history like they do in Germany of the postal service and sums you know I'm half Swiss as well so when I vote online and Swiss elections I so by internet because it is easier for me out of here in Canada but in the past postal voting because in Germany and some you know the Postal Service quite robust you can get a mortgage through that oppose accompanied by a cell phone at your local postal Station was we don't have that same was was the trust that it's not uncommon for you in Canada to send a package and it doesn't end up its destination for 4 weeks so you know we have to find more out of the idea of using different methods to vote for people who cannot physically go to a polling station on election day has increased in the last 10 years and I can't think on statistics in other countries that maybe at creaking touch upon is that in Canada we have a huge uptake of voters were voting in the pre-election period so advanced holes have seen an increase on in every election municipal provincial federal more people are taking advantage of that so for making perspective the idea of giving people more options too low in the pre-election period whether it is by mail by internet and you know going to your local returning officer to go in the pre-election period and that's very very appealing to canadians the normalizer just getting busy busier and we just like to have more options on the table and then I know that for people and the disability community in Canada has been very very vocal about I'm using Internet voting as the way in which to enfranchise people here can leave their home or they just don't feel comfortable with the aspect of you know having to go behind voting screen and need someone to help them both on needing a 3rd person to mark the ballot they really value the idea of the secrecy of the vote and empowering disabled people whether there no Blinder and they have mobility is used to adjust both behind a screen for themselves and you know that I used to do election ministration had gone several times to you know old-age homes where we have no loading and and it's quite you know it's it's an issue of that I think they're saying but you know they they're quite uncomfortable with the idea that someone has to sit there and mark the ballot and so on for us it's just the way in which we can make people feel like we are part of the process and giving them additional resources to do sub greatest wanted quickly touch upon Darrieus question if that's OK what about and she votes further in the Russian embassy in and I had no idea why would not trust Russian elections that's quite a lot of students I think and you know in Canada we have where using the Internet and uh at the federal level and ways and to modernize our election system so in the 2015 election this was the 1st time you can register yourself online so get yourself on the voter list for voting day in order to be able to vote so you go online you type in your name your address and it would put you on the election list so on polling day you could be struck off the list very quickly so that was the 1st time it had been used in that way normally you have a bunch of paperwork to fill out to mail in you've got a copy of your ID accelerometers quietly breasts that and I know over and in terms of elections abroad and this may be a way in which people can just register themselves and make themselves known to you and this year authorities that they are living abroad and facilitate a fast evolving process OK thanks so much for the symbols and for them
it yourself of maybe 1st I for the question if evil things it is necessary that this
necessity for this graph is not I believe but it's I think what we what we should think about weighing the benefits and the risk of this and I a we've heard about the ban the benefits and we need to understand the risks and about verifiability then the know the way we haven't right now with a paper about it seems completed transparent but but I believe that this perceived transparency is a bit of the theoretical side so while we cooled in fury go and recount the those ballots in some in some places nobody that's that's right so in the end we have to we trust the system and us as long as we have trust will develop uh system and procedures the spine of the still from trust this and the this idea of with having a kind of double measure for verifiable don't have a bowl that paper and and some kind of 20 record actually this is a very good idea and so the among amount many experts agree that this kind of elections when people go to some polling place and essentially cast paper ballots but those ballots are for example the optically scanned or the something up procedure this is actually the golden standard and when it's connected with some constant this to call it it's called risk limiting all that's some parts statistically randomly picked up pick the belt our sample and recounted in order to see whether there some discrepancies between the announced results and what we see in the paper and this is actually a way to really improve the level of security we have right now although we were mostly talking about intent and different right enter it again about this individual verifiability this is 1 of the most mostly studies right right now aspects of how to convince of older or how to provide a mechanism for of alter that the voter can chat can make sure that his about her ballot containing her his intended shows isn't it cast this is something we in the community worked on a lot and we already have some my solutions I had a meeting I don't think we have right now a perfect solution but we have already quite quite interesting once and I as just funny infected
quickly pose a question up there on can hear me yes values on path I mean I see in Canada were in very close proximity to our neighbors to the south and what happened with the 2016 election seems to have
scared some of the municipalities fur and the dropped Internet voting is an option for the next municipal elections so Markham and which is 1 of the bedrock communities intron will be using it you will be well wealth so finding it that plays a lot in the media for you guys and if there has been an issue for you as it has been for us the rest the proximity geography mediation bags swimming infected you guys at all the certainly also plays a role here maybe I
mean you can reflect it didn't get the question completely but um um but I try to to to answer it if it didn't if I
don't then just give me a aside and uh that 3 aspects and this 2 journal added it just looked up the Chernoff for Estonia and and and show to me that as you said the numbers when higher when the 1st online election well 2007 it went up from 58 to 260 almost 62 per cent and seeing get higher little bit but if you compare that to let's say 1995 thinking that 69 % of the people going so it it hasn't reached the standard had in in 95 and I think that the trend of overall is like quicker curve it's going down going out and you said it's always going down pretty much that's what you were saying that all this 1 over there was saying and if you compare that to the state election connected before Parliament for example it's a state in in Germany and the turnout was in 2011 51 % and went up to 61 per cent of 10 per cent plus within 5 years without evolving so that the people vote whether there is a voting will where there is no devoting and ease of use and that's 1 big aspect of we have all of these but postal absentee ballots we've talked about it's pretty good I think it could be easier we've also got the pre-election of time we can go to tall and cast a ballot laughing at about 3 weeks of 4 weeks prior to the election day you could improve that may or could you know I'm always open for more opportunities for people that are disabled that have I don't know certain problems why they can't go cast a ballot we have to improve the show we have to but I think there are other ways in the voting for improving their and um the other thing you were asking a all about in the dual system with paper and without paper and yeah I think it if there is a and that was what the federal and the Constitutional Court has also ruled that talked about whether there are like people print out of your vote when you go to the voting machine in your in your in your voting of polling place and yours ago print out and that was collected and if you do that then you also have to recounted and at what what's then the advantage of using of online systems or or voting machines if you have to read it all in all the papers as well so um but or you use 1 way or the other way is use both you can also do just with paper and pen I so I don't see an advantage of using the dual system just this more expensive because you have to count the people and you also have to use a known to also use systems that have to be of the soul and the 1 thing that just said to you're comment is like they're at the polling place to set that nobody read counts uh what there is in pompous that's not complete you there sometimes there is a recount but there are also more than 1 P 1 person was the use of a condom also there are several people from always there observing whichever was doing with the doing so there are more than 2 hours of work on so in order to
look on time we have the possibility to take 1 last question here see 1 hand but people please keep it short and has high and they get and as a citizen I'm interested in the possibilities of Digital Democracy and voting and as far as verification is concerned I'm asking myself if the blockchain technology could be a solution because financial transactions are verified by blockchain technology OK great to include that topic maybe we can just briefly touch upon that with the closing words by everyone pretty this concerning Proc showing the ominous topic everybody's talking about for the last 5 years uh but chain used as 1 component in our system for the guaranteeing the EPA or the EU and the the
total number of all votes of are being care kept her correctly so to say so it it's it's used as a 1 component without the system but not the Dietz intimidating as a solution is heavily dependent on the context it should never be forced to any for place where it is not ready to be introduced to the the dispersion them if you take into account the needs and necessities be turned it provides you with a piece it is possible thanks great you last words and I I will be very honest and I'm not an expert in anything blockchain technology relating it but it does she does at the heading the thinking fair question you did bring up a good point about the sort of trust factor which have we seen brain brain brought up time and time again which is why I ask that question about that the US earlier and which is why I had you know hadn't find it's the visceral sort excitement over and I voting is is more generally for places where we have a very small and controlled list of electors self you know people living abroad that is a very small tight list of people who probably error can be very mobile on election day so there are military override all our students you know those are people who will be honest set 6 less there's more enthusiasm to have those people being at the mobile Internet and there is by the general public dissent the higher states the lower the enthusiasm a smaller states the hiring enthusiasm so and yet that healthier in our very fast the country of qatar thanks affinity for the big experience from
Canada but think that Thomas so the 1 about the blockchain like read it
what you said I see that as a useful element in building a more trustworthy vaulting system I don't see it as a something that can replace a custom solutions for revolting there and the last word for me we are rather exciting moment where we can have already Asher the evil thing to electronic voting for society I believe we have a lot of things that we need to do a lot of things uh that have to do with explaining how it works with solving for the problems but when I when I look at how the 20 fold and look 10 20 years ago and how it looks right now with its huge advances in this and I believe we are well positioned to believe that in 5 10 years will have a really convincing solution and then we can be together thinking any yeah make it shorter memory looking for for the Digital Future and digital French and digital everything but I'm really looking forward to use pen and paper when voting so thank you have all of
that uh so let's come back in 20 years time and discuss the topic again and with this for everyone for this my some interesting discussion and how they're thinking that they're all
rules or if behavior of
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Digital Democracy: E-Voting for everyone?
Serientitel re:publica 2017
Anzahl der Teile 234
Autor Vinkel, Priit
Plante, Stéphanie
Truderung, Thomasz
Krimmer, Robert
Tillmann, Henning
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/32970
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2017
Sprache Englisch

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract The challenges, chances and conditions. In short, democracy has been present on the Internet for a while. People read the latest headlines, sign petitions and feverishly discuss politics in forums and social media. Despite this, elections are still done with pen and paper. Because of traditional methods of voting, many people simply don't vote. On Election Day, many are kept from the polling stations by more pressing issues. Through the digitalization of elections, much can be simplified. The parameters and conditions for secure and safe, legally valid online elections are the topics of this panel discussion.

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