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Video in TIB AV-Portal: Fedora.NEXT

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Developing the Fedora Server, Workstation and Cloud
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As you may or may not be aware, Fedora is transitioning from its classic "one-size-fits-all" approach to one where we intend to target three specific user types with individual products: Fedora Workstation, Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud. Gathering Fedora contributors at FOSDEM to work on the logistics around this change in direction would be a valuable opportunity. If you have an idea for how to improve Fedora or how to make one or more of the three new products really stand out, please join us for this planning and working session for Fedora's future. The Fedora.NEXT effort was launched recently as a means to reinvigorate interest in this most storied of distributions. We know that this will only succeed if we are meeting the real needs of our users, both current and potential. We would like anyone with an interest in guiding Fedora towards being the best solution for them to join us for this discussion
Installation art Onlinecommunity Server (computing) Group action Multiplication sign Workstation <Musikinstrument> Mathematical analysis Control flow Planning Bit Mereology Product (business) Fluid Lecture/Conference Hypermedia Hacker (term) Point cloud Website Metric system Resultant Computing platform Exception handling Physical system Vulnerability (computing)
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Web page NP-hard Group action Presentation of a group Service (economics) Variety (linguistics) Virtual machine Medical imaging Lecture/Conference Different (Kate Ryan album) Data structure Series (mathematics) Physical system Focus (optics) Arm Constraint (mathematics) Structural load Numerical analysis Process (computing) Integrated development environment Personal digital assistant Internet service provider Phase transition Point cloud Quicksort Row (database)
Logical constant Presentation of a group Group action Service (economics) Open source Euler angles Source code 1 (number) Open set Semantics (computer science) Product (business) Twitter Lecture/Conference Hypermedia Different (Kate Ryan album) Metropolitan area network Oracle Form (programming) Physical system Email Planning System call Numerical analysis Googol Commitment scheme Order (biology) Universe (mathematics) Point cloud Website Configuration space Right angle Metric system
Axiom of choice Group action Workstation <Musikinstrument> Source code Chaos (cosmogony) Open set Disk read-and-write head Perspective (visual) Neuroinformatik Software bug Medical imaging Different (Kate Ryan album) Hypermedia Single-precision floating-point format Core dump Information security Descriptive statistics Physical system Software developer Electronic mailing list Staff (military) Bit Message passing Arithmetic mean Process (computing) Ring (mathematics) Software repository Telecommunication Order (biology) Figurate number Quicksort Cycle (graph theory) Reading (process) Spacetime Point (geometry) Web page Open source Computer file Canonical ensemble Rule of inference Event horizon Product (business) Goodness of fit Latent heat Term (mathematics) Representation (politics) Energy level Selectivity (electronic) Data structure Traffic reporting Computing platform Metropolitan area network Form (programming) Alpha (investment) Focus (optics) Distribution (mathematics) Key (cryptography) Interface (computing) Surface Physical law Content (media) Expert system Cartesian coordinate system Ruby on Rails Frame problem Word Integrated development environment Statement (computer science) Iteration NP-hard Building Beta function Enthalpy State of matter Decision theory Multiplication sign Direction (geometry) View (database) 1 (number) Mereology Stack (abstract data type) Order of magnitude Attractor Subset Derivation (linguistics) Mathematics Bit rate File system Data conversion Imperative programming Extension (kinesiology) Area Email Service Pack Flow separation Discounts and allowances Repository (publishing) Self-organization Website Right angle Procedural programming Freeware Sinc function Row (database) Metre Computer programming Server (computing) Implementation Service (economics) Virtual machine Theory Power (physics) Revision control Well-formed formula Integer Utility software Set theory Domain name Installation art Forcing (mathematics) Projective plane Interactive television Planning Incidence algebra Numerical analysis Point cloud Diskrete Mathematik
all right so 1 2 3 go OK to save the more people you know coming in so it'll again just as the download it started right good afternoon I think you're coming outside a little late in the day so I appreciate the the status of will will be to stay awake nite so what is good or . next the door next is a plan that have it has been evolving over the last year about a year I made maybe a little longer than that and it's it's been an effort to try and address some of the issues that Fedora sees with its declining uh declining contributor base and of action and how many of you were here for the talk earlier earlier today there are a few of you he had some that some great metrics and I wish I had a chance to steal from him before as they got up on stage but he he did some very interesting analysis of various distros and how much they're being talked about on Hacker News on now Linux external and on our Google said Google Trends and have the results were not good for Fedora Fedora and then when we get a sense of this for a long time that the door has not been doing a as just not then the exciting new place to do that to do stuff it's not the it's it's kind of that we got the impression that the communities kind of users as a commodity were just that layer that works and nobody cares about anymore so with the Fedora next initially we're trying to bring a little bit of that excitement back that still to the dealers platform layers but remind people that there's still a lot of work to be done there's still lot of opportunity to make something better so part of the it was 1 of the big pieces of the fluid next initiative is that historicaly has been 1 gigantic collection of packages that usually installs about every 6 months but we do we do a release and on the on that day it's tested and you know it's it's always the latest bits and generally with as little as modification is possible just to get get them onto a system there there really it hasn't been a driving goal of Fedora except for get as much stuff into Fedora as possible so we stopped and we took a look at this and we decided that's probably not going to sustain us and obviously now they're not doing it already so what we really need is we need to take a step back and figure out what is it that we can do that would give Fedora some definition and a goal so yeah we took a look at this with fund kind in had Lawrence Kansas we we had a long discussion that was most of a day with all that with a lot of people just listing out Fedora strengths and weaknesses and what we found was that most of the time our week this is where we're trying to where we were when we were trying to to solve the needs of 2 different groups at the same time they made be that really might make sense for Fedora to be willing to address different groups with a different deliverable a different product that we were calling them so we we took a look and decide that we're gonna break Fedora install media without food or as what you can get off of our website into 3 8 3 basic concepts and something Carlingford or workstation something recalling Fedora server and something recalling Fedora cloud so
the 1st and arguably the most contentious right now is the Fedora workstation and about covered 2 weeks ago we had we had the conclusion of our 1st round of Florida next the deliverables and what those were was we we organized a group of people groups of people to manage each of these products and come up with essentially a PRD now marketing document but a a set of goals and driving principles for their version of Fedora so the or workstation what we realize was that 1 thing that your needs to be better at is helping people build Fedora we need it we need a platform that they can use that is the easiest and most effective way to do development and the the and packaging in the form of the door so we have a test of your workstation root to figure out what kind of so what kind of target users what kind of things can we do to enhance the developer experience on the door so they started they may decide to select afterward you get target users force sets of people that for which this is what the workstation product will care about their on the board my career that you possess lame but the so the there this is something that historically the the desktop this spins and Fedora have always been technology spends they've always been about well there's the dome upstream and the KDE upstream and is the x C upstream and as the whatever the favored WindowManager you've got upstream and we're just stick all those in door we give a different spin so you can start with the 1 you want and that's as much of it is we're gonna care about that's not enough we we need the door to be producing some sort of a some sort of a workstation that the that you can use to get something done and not just be a technology preview for the upstream work options do great work but they don't do integration work and that's where distribution you can they can make a difference that
the Fedora server is that this is the 1 that i most heavily involved with this society I'm on the Working Group for the Fedora server and the how many years you're familiar with the other pets and cattle metaphor for OK far too few users as well as all give it to you this way but historically you get there to there we were not historically but there are 2 ways that you can manage services in a in your environment and then there is generally referred to by pets or cattle but when you have a when you have a pet you take care of it if you get sick you take it to the that you do every can't help but with cattle New York you know you're cargoes dry your hamburger and you another cow so it is with the better is the cattle that metaphor the ideas you could New critical infrastructure the things that you cannot live without that have to be rock-solid always there are things like you DNS server and possibly your domain controller these they're probably going to be your that your pets these are the ones that you going to keep that carefully cult cultivated and make sure that they're always best up and running problem possibly your your infrastructure as a service the infrastructure that will be will end up being so we we hope that or server it so what is it what it is it's it's it's are with your way developing the next generation of critical infrastructure the sort of thing that's going to become well server the things can become center less they eventually the this is the technology that we're going to focus on and fight in Fedora server and wrote about it but it's not just going to be make sure that the platform is rock solid were also that we building infrastructure to do that manage deployments of common tasks things like OK that machine over there is now a domain control you add new tell it but domain it is and that's basically all the information you need because often is that machine and over here you've got your yeah you just stand up a stress SQL Server here's sequential for it and now you can start start that deploying applications against deserve these along the goals and can be a very difficult since you are actually implementing the action were actively going to be help on ideas for how to get through these things done but I'm going move move on that I wanted actually spend too much time talking
about the the the the individual pieces here because I want this to be a workshop
but so many get on to the 4th or cloud is the cattle side of our peta-scale metaphor and it's going to be a series of small images that built in a variety of different difference in the structure the service systems things there's deployable systems to run OpenShift run OpenStack to add to run to you know Fedora in Indian Amazon environment Fedora in have have been army environment all of these sort of things that your cloud should be said should be servicing and there is no there's going to be a heavy focus on how to serve DevOps needs had we serve that was the case where we won't have these and these young disposable machines that we cut that we can just cut and paste and you know if you get a sudden but no spiking load because you got that you know you got on the front page slash dot and then you can just call appears a provider and say that's been up 10 more of those so I will with that in mind I make is that we we put together uh this this plan and that we had we had our 1st guarantees that went through the other for Engineering Steering Committee for approval uh 2 weeks ago or last week little both on and we we've pretty much set alarm that these are the goals the we want this chunk of the Fedora to be focusing on and now we're into our execution phase are planning phase really were we figure out how it is right to do that so i'd like and relate to engage the audience for ever and therefore some ideas and plans the of things that we should do things that we should watch out for that you have poor stories in the past and other people have tried this and failed what they did wrong arm so that's where we go but the 1st lecture I wanna ask that guy in a show of hands anyone in who in here that was the served on 1 of the working groups that had appeared he submitted so OK actions by the number you about that they I think so that I'm going to apply to you because you guys did a lot of hard work with very limited it with very limited resources and very low and very limited go up that constraints so this is a fantastic job so that is basically all I have for presentation what I'm looking for now is start shouting things that make side you join a letter behind record but we do have a microphone and we can use so you could just organize your questions by role a the the gentleman in
the awesome church right there this
person's over you have to tell me where you got that after the presentation hello my name is preclinical and a good I'd like to ask and I'm I think career a simple question you told me what you told us with fewer gave some metrics of all the possible decline of the Fedora coming to believe so what valuable to ask the Fedora community was very difficult that someone who isn't there they're not there anymore well 1 way do you can ask to or provincial issues which will shouldn't from from I guess and then we do we hear we listened to our with your community in the end we do have a pretty active that if self-selected group of people who quite funny from developed regular regularly conducted by the number 1 soul use what you did semantics in wrong in all ways recalls the following dual to semantics for example to build a constant source of cool who you want to do and to do so we know that as we had we we have done that what the problem is that there are a lot of accounts and Fedora that counts service the ancient that haven't been touched in a decade there a lot of that I know you can we can't necessarily just go by packet commitment and metrics that doesn't tell us was working on the website is working it's very difficult to get a clear picture of the decline we we got we have we have had number people do a fair number of metrics on the system on this and demands of university will universally they all show a sharp decline and they they all they all very unhappy of what they estimate the number of active contributors are but they all agree that they're sitting there less than half of what they were 6 years ago who Schloss tools will be used to look for the reasons and the referral you going along great because when something of a legend Google Trends is more pronounced and I mean it's just well it's not it's terrible abandon question I mean are you told us about 3 potential you products and the oracle base form of Europe because you were just where's ways we'll be at the same packages use and all these products I mean guess is that there's a political practice I am workers are and would become so both additional walk you want and it has of right now FESCO had has resolves to stick with it and to stick with the 1 1 universal package set while allowing the individual the individual products may be allowed to manually configure packages in different ways but they but they must all be using the same bits or at least be building sub-vectors from the that they need to make the variants In the 1st stage of M Alexander for there and I'm going to ask if you think of the reason why I contribute Fedora declining it is probably the idea of its people don't see vacation in influence Fedora right now because they think that fedora is the more in its own way into any kind of initiative created over making at the flight into the right and this year and the year requirements something and it makes it worse because the right now we saw story in in your short actually this is a discussion that a secure and the so stuff gets done by the people that show up and I find that the people who often have the attitude of I don't know if I can influence because it doesn't look friendly enough are often not ones that do a lot and the way your waiting open source for an invitation and here we have issued them and we have that's how I got involved in the PRD because I'm relatively new to the door and that's how I got a involved in the Cloud sick because I came over from working on cloud stacking got involved in the cloud and I'm like I can I do this in and you know they had an invitation to work on the cloud city workers then I shopping and I said I will do it here I I I neglected to mention that the original presentation at all this year he work was done after an open call for participation with anyone with a with anyone at all thought they they might have something to add to it yeah this was this was not and this was not as some as some work media search a Red dominated by an order to process the entire and and at the well when I say making plans for a year I mean that these have been met to discuss that every conference with the we've been too and I know I know that Natalie gets a conferences but we do always take it back to the mailing lists afterward so you no man and when I when I said with what I said was over the last couple of years and years have been about but we have been we have been monitoring the decline as above about fun fun kind Lorentz we that we've started making it started trying to put together a plan to address it that's that's that was what that about about a year ago you we
and so on bigger better than I again I get here before I mean it's just for known people outside of very Fedora Core a group which is like where in some of our and known well known persons injured or a community it's hard for them to start doing something into the of for example this there is this uh qt arrays acutely group-blind we've available on our plans for desktop environment but the right now we don't see in this 1 workstation purity interviews since hard for them to get in tool which choices special interest group or something because no 1 knows about and how should they start to how should the 1st people to listen to them that what the 1st started actually this send a message to a Fedora announced those of you announced i I want former saying here's the here's the things you accomplish that get through through the advocate in Anatolia programming problem is the fact that now this workstation group is the out from made from non-developers and no 1 has come from a large and you can very wonderful workstation grew out of the woodwork 4 strokes of other have them onto this but if any 1 of the of the people with that earlier wanted that they work for this group had who had I don't think this is a bad idea I mean that we should do care about the whole we hold open and this process is not from the point of we publish and everything but also from the point that there are people who don't have prior express experience adorably don't have love is level 4 and they're not known only during your landing give there is the only way to get experience in communities to participate in the community there that there is no way that I have never met anyone in your community a lot OK they're they're they're they're about to people that for a for a community that are not welcoming to new country contributions I have and well in the domain of these in there and I was the I was reading it just but we think in general that if used if you come forward and say I'm going to do this their own integers I think that the no-nonsense were abandoning the discretion the that was the and 1 of the that the government had to of the title of the poem quot Christian only for I would say I would actually necessarily say that I selected that not selected few people for the server working group that had that that can have a long history with your but were created that workers were clearly clearly had an interest in making sure that door was a powerful server platform for example uj imperative the ascent sent to us and you know is a member of the server working group and know but that was prior to the vet had red adds the center as merger but not of I wanted you know I was selected that initially the awarding which were selected by a representative from Pasco and then they form their own have this form there on the election process for other would select members after that and so my initial selection I pick the number of people both with the with experience and with and without without ever by people on on the server you there are relatively junior ambassadors because I want to have people working on this they're coming coming out from the perspective of how my going to introduce people door so I I I think these groups can work and they don't have to be all you know about insiders I think uh I think it depends a really depends on the way the groups and the formula in themselves their their respective governance through governance rules will allow them to filter through the use of Indian individually but if any of them are not listening to external contribution I send them to me I I will have a word that of region I have I have a question but it's true the audience who is isn't here iterative apparently afraid and raise your hand and now various people who are not contributing to figure out today and not talking to write at raise a hand just a quick census OK are they could you tell and so what are you interested in the are you interested in joining the our ringing here this experience to your own communities just asking because I'm originally or we're just looking for reasons that states have because am 1 of the working group refugees and I was interested in why people are coming here and what are their interests just so out of after the thank you and in the I didn't want chairs during optimally questions of the 1st the staff and the head of the people in the right theory judges structural and where we are in the magnitude some most of solution decision and just made a joke and for the tenderer proforms of and
it's emergency whatever on I useful arise through there and a tour can also assume and sometimes the you I tried to would just so I come in and the solve a small problem I did so so small program that was selecting the 3 and I try to to become on if I had to do some note that some packages for that but so the side of the door and might lie in the private a on a real for other I can use and just to have that small bycatch across bold and the encumbered so I had to do to sign your vocal serve to to be a matter of i t is to be active frame of man who trying your of participated to the mountains of all the packages and so on and so on at that time I of those sort of slow computer so building serves to go out of and I just stopped because there was no way for me to just come we see that small by occasional and give it I I gave you sit still alone in my room and the Triple a 3 of the state for you sit there but it I can find a way to to that posting into or in a simple way if to it was OK but to a much time for me and with the world can go the report of the time I sometimes I 4 of our home the key or many nuisance uh my feeling is the same the she is afraid arising out of danger that it becomes difficult to participate in issue issue or age you on the time he's 1 hour per per recounts the urinals welcome places because maybe you're right and that is if could do total to if 2 words uh listen to all I don't have a problem that you have in the house it is time and this is the world 1 and I would like I would like to mention that we do have a working group that is addressing this specific problem that we have we have of there 2 other working groups that are directly or indirectly involved in the product and those of the base design working Group and the environment as stacks working group the latter is that the latter is also heavily involved in finding ways to do the 2 layer thing so that you can as we can put for the the stuff on top of Fedora in a more sensible way 1 of these are solutions that we that we pulled out relatively recently something called copper which I think is cool other packet repository it's it's that it's our answer to meters BPA's is different this slightly different feature set but essentially it's that allows a Fedora community member who has just said you just assign the of the that big PCA which just says I won't do anything and your that's illegal I to go in and had to go and build that doesn't have to correspond to a packaging guidelines and offered as a in a setting aside repo that people can go and install and that is the and that were encouraging as a means of but you know as a 1st step to getting a package of Fedora because if you get that people are using your career repo somebody's going to want to pick it up and quality and even if it if you don't have the time to do it and if so and it's also a good place for people does that tried to stick as I held the next alpha or beta version of the package that isn't ready for Fedora become like he Fedora these reasonably stable we know we don't want to be breaking constantly so perhaps to put the we put the experimental stuff inside both which also again does necessarily have to all of the uh mumbo-jumbo of getting all that that that's dependencies and your 1st as as a way to just get started in the community and get people excited about it without having to do without having to go through all the hoops of our existing academic community so I think that's a big step forward the thank you for the European talking about technical our implementation like all of his service BPA that maybe we should organize working groups Perform mentoring and Beckett's review and has been sporadic like it's more about personal person-to-person interactions not about the technical side of things if you would like it if you would like to say that if you would like to read such and such that and I'm not joking you're likely incident that send a message the list I will see to it that people sign up that is that is that is a very serious need in it's it's 1 of the reasons why I had you know I think and I think 10 conference in the year we send someone to do a bit and build your 1st rpm workshop to to help people learn this stuff and then building l and we have the ambassador at all they're all these out that these yellow the stands and he asks that all these events and that's to address that problem and we do have we do about we have an organ we're really have an organizational ASCII perhaps solver for me you might not want to lose somebody you just drops in the package and then runs away in the will maintains its really so if you have not much time you schooling and that's why I suggested something like the co-presenter subset of your upper and its extent it's interesting enough that it's good that something what's that enable them OK OK yeah but time right now by the time you've gone through all the 1st steps you you must have you must be dedicated that we we know this is a problem I'd like to turn the page of the work I'm from there's been a lot of discussion about space for the release cycle space are we are reconsidering changing the piece we the figure next to because but what I see young when I when I compare and server and cloud manage seeded globin search maybe go faster pace while services so I removed and those are things that the that being discussed up the your project as a whole will probably maintain a particular uh you know its existing really skating or just a various sad very minimally whereas yes we may actually that we may allow the products to new releases that releases of their own as long as they can provide the Q the Q E in the well and resources to do so at their own pace and 1 thing that's that suggested for Fedora server for example is that we actually do a full release every 2 years whereas in the middle we just you have essentially service packs and alphas of next 1 so that there there are discussions on how to do that what we need is a we maintain the cadence for the project where the products maybe allow a male may be allowed to do something a little different and I try to get an iteration of the books in have fun way too difficult for something as simple as think yes assigned stuff and so on could be broadened a winning by triaging rights that you can change think that that and I can see why that would be difficult and primarily because that infrastructure is provided by the Fedora Project provided by Red Hat those and anyone with any rights has access to potentially customer data which is which is a which is a risk that is 1 of the reasons why we we we have some on several occasions tried to say tried to break from that but it's just too expensive manpower wise you can have hidden products and at the same time just be able to change existing ones and so on I'm not an expert in that domain so I I can't really answer that I'm have not I try to make small changes to books I a few years ago you anyone could do that now I don't know the process it was way too complicated but stuff but the risk of some England file a bug there can but no were helping out at the end of the distribution of funds could you so if you're asking like to take ride don't people contribute and someone says knowledge should gossip and too much processes is is a very clearly identified problems or and it's something we are going to dry trying to address highly non-stationary Christian back to the topic of the door next so funny it's still not clear what the target of the whole process should be there because right now it's simply seems that you want to change the way the insulation goes to medium from all of those some different kind of spins all installation media of birds of I can see the big picture you told me about that so that might have to be true to utilize a community maybe not but from what we hear what now that we got several different problems are areas where we need to work and lost to do eyes in order to get the community up 1 and this community problem from my point of view can hardly be fixed with this approach so could you post point all the big picture of what you see and what their influence might be of for example for a spin slot like existing ones like the KDE spinel sold here I disappear all the that well this is a lot of ongoing discussion that specific topic on the dead develops right now I have but that far as suspend the individual spends what we're trying to do with the the or that products if this provides 3 distinct platforms have about our past our past year we hope is that 1st we want to make or a more inviting place to be a user because you never ever get conveying a contributor who was in 1st user that just doesn't happen that were you know so we were what do we want to instead of having just that just these techno technology previews we wanna be able to say you want use Fedora because it's the it's the best place to do Ruby on Rails development because that's the uh that's the 1 by 1 such focus it's the best place to do that to do the development of this these have top-level sped topple stacks which people which people are very interested in so that's that's that's a target for the workstation we hope that we can use that to gain users and then from users we start the building of contributor base again similarly with the server will return what we wanna do is 1 of the that we want to 1 of the things that I always cringe have to here is people are all always say you know our own mailing lists 0 you should never use or as a server it's not stable that's actually not really that true here a lot of people that using your as a server both in the book as pets and cattle and ends it's just In this cargo cults that mentality the Fedora is adequate for that is a problem and by producing a product we hopefully bring people back into realizing that that's a chaos of space we care about and also we can focus on making it the best place to do simple deployment so that this so that these never small and medium businesses the world can they can get their you have cheap free powerful open source solutions up without having to be you know the Greybeard with 30 years of experience so and I think with that thing and also build a basing it as you know this is the text this is also not a stable but the technology preview for what's going to be in the term 10 years a 10 year lifespan of the of the wells and sent to us as a little ways down the road I want I want to be trying to be a building and to get the application developers the other people want to do these serious deployments to working with us to get in your server so they get whatever it is that they're going to want to have in place to to build on in 2 years to bid to do their being released that we've already got in place for them 1 equispaced they spread all that stuff so they can lodge when the center was a does I would actually rather have Matthew I give the description of the cloud for for me because he is kind of our guru on that so if you don't mind they think that statement so yeah so that the furor cloud images partly receiving the coral asking a lot of excitement and Fedora has had a pretty good Cloud image Amazon E C 2 and downloadable for OpenStack for a while and easy to and downloadable for copper releases now it's pretty good but I see that the usage and download numbers on it are a lot lower than its actual quality utility for the emperor that around and so it would be kind of nice to have done some things that people can see OK here I see a reason to use the door for this and plug this in and it'll be a really good doctor container doing docker containers suffered or is going to be 1 of the best places to do that because her and have a the Linux-based security layer isolating containers from each other that someone thing like us won't have up so have some like this is why you should use the or in the cloud and part of the answer there I think that's 1 of the things we can needed as we're going forward because the we had the cloud image but nobody was really thinking about it at release time for Fedora and somebody you release engineering had like quick spin it up at the last minute as an afterthoughts police process so having working group so it sort of as a way to formalize that and to get people other than me doing the work really also part of the 2 think the and because it becomes a single point of failure it's nice engage community people in doing that well and I is strictly to the and things he said her earlier to and 1 of the that have been hearing last couple couple weeks is that on the 1 hand everything has been decided in the back room and there's nautical again and there's a sparse conspiracy to you don't push something through and on the other hand you guys don't have any specifics were realize talking about in the actual truth is the reason they're are any specific sternotomy specific because there was no secret backroom plan drawn up with a list of specifics so we're talking people trying to actually figure out what the specifics are and yeah and this has been going on Fedora develop mailing Western don't of the stuff on open and sometimes they know Iousy Chattering along Iousy log so that's that's open but it's kind of hidden so on but as things become more specific think will have more public communications of other things too this would that the 1st thing you you know the this this is very useful and you get the and the key is that while the all right you see the only thing is the integration of and it was not just the did I say that all the you this is this this is this of about In for this issues and what stage and all these the mission of the things that you the and you you so 1 of the things that I want 1 of recent to mention is that the package review process is very hard for getting a package in the 1st time that so that as an example what some of the people the the last and the relationship and the and and you should know that you we use so you you you you was that you use the use of the you you you you I love you the use of you know what you it it what you want things that are assigned you have primarily because that would be in violation of our of 1 of our 1 of our core foundations again and again that may have a solution yet so there there are a lot of infrastructure things that could be made better improved and so we have great and that there was I I would like I would like to hear you need to hear about spirit and monopolizing the conversation why we have a conversation the 3 of us have politics I just I I don't want to you have higher rate of attendance at the state of yeah that's the 1 with the replacement of 1 of the things that I would like to see is part of the next thing is the separation between some of the some more lightweight like I have something that's not Paktia consider I would like to make it available to people that haven't been part of the part of the distribution and I think that the ability to get those things in should be at a different level from so I need to make a change to do you would see i want to change the file system the kernel and so it makes sense that this is with a really high level overview when they're at the new basic level the less and the things that our packages are added on to it I'm probably can make later procedures there so I think that is 1 of the things and then 1 of the questions was about what happens to KDE and that raises qt thing on this is supposed to be an additive process sources we were putting use some new things in there that didn't exist before but we don't want to throw out the things that are there and good and so we would like to we did with yeah what you to this OK even even even if they on desktop workstations they decide to not have based their thing on TV and I haven't been busy traveling and followed what all that is of discussions going where you very likely that it's going to be economic based product but that doesn't mean that we don't have TV in repository can just keep on using KDE is you always have that if you use the workstation product you get some other different things so if you're a software developer you come to the and and that was desktop for myself a development policy I see this this product targeting the Boston that's what I want but if you look at you know that's not what I want well we still have all the other stuff in the door and we're not going to throw that out it was like from this product requirement it was said something like every DiskTop follows this session should work we GTM for example which is inappropriate for PD or is it could you don't work you don't want to work with GDM white of its workstation group footer it's inside so it's a bit out of problems but when you choose 1 direction is the main 1 used for it what it what it means is that in order to because in order to be into receiving tag that says you are you in your compliant with the food or workstations that requirement you must work together does not mean that you can that you cannot use KDM more likely at this level this is a dangerous read through the use of model and the like if I give a good book again with these these reports are is really there and the assertion of a set of things that you can rely on the so the assertion that the system with that in order to be your workstation off the surface forces but you can make the assumption that up to this level the set of packages and the set of API is in this set of interfaces are available to you and by doing that what would what you were saying is if you work your workstation it does mean that you are using media if you switch about it technically up your workstation but you're not you're still Fedora 1 year this is an intuitive workstation group is known to the distal group so there's a very large little our approach is that differently and from the workstation group should decide for of a discount between them and so the discusses the eyes of other desktops what what they're what they're trying to be open is the possibility that if another desktop once it is willing to rise to that least provide this at the center of interfaces and then their their their their environment then they can still be considered for workstation the 1st wanted to and to implement that will most likely be going on but it doesn't have the ideas that it should not restrict the possibility that access he could still offer all the same public interfaces or Katie or any of them this yeah was thinking that I have a and will soon release the steam and you thought about all to making a few months ago so Americans only every 2 years and it's not about I'm doing mall rolling release form the main part of the perception of of the set itself has come up and no decision has been made at this point although you're down to a more or less ride since returned or anarchists return installable uh in composers back on is more or less already available in the KM experiment purple mantle stuff so that's not something you would use in your daily machine well that again that that's 1 that what what that there's effort from certain set size to make ride a little more stable by by strongly leveraging copper for those things are right there are with stable enough for right so that right itself maintains its that maintains a level installability fanatic guarantee of behavior going in to their aspirations you've women's platform and really have time to wait 1 more question anybody who knows what happens we yeah yeah you know some further from the it's rooms and things from this from this 1 was half a meter now sounds like you try to shop the the shop out some products of food or to make up some clean targets but what we're what we got right now is that we got some rules beans and stem derivates we also already got the cloud image where uh which might meet some of that it's there and there's to maybe we need to solve the image that's true but why don't we keep the existing infrastructure as it is because 1 of the strands of federal law is the flexibility is the amount of different flavors that is available white male sure as so had as the right now we have no plans to grab restrict that all kind in the only thing that might change is that they may not be that that promoted as as a as prevalently on the website it may be that of websites and leave the focused words the product bought that as an isolated allegedly already right but that decision that's been finalized either but that seems likely that these 3 things will be right on the front page content of that will still be in there already relegated to a secondary attractor thanks to a clear which rights militantly viral kittens cattle on thinking remote in each view of electrical produce say we can continue these discussions on the Fedora mailing lists and other than that I and I fully recognize that they didn't fare or mailing lists can be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff but uh it is the source of the canonical sorts of record for the decisions we try to make thank you very much thank