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Disrupting the Surveillance Ecosystem

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so if you if and
yeah hi ready and name is parker Higgins I'm an activist at the
Electronic Frontier Foundation which is a civil liberties organization that based in 7 Cisco but that we do work by in the US and around the world to
protect people's freedom of speech freedom of association privacy rights as those people go online and come into contact with technology but I'm US-based and I are attorneys at the organization also based so a lot of our legal work and what I'm going to talk about today but but primarily affects US but we also do work around the world and this and that and I think that I'll try to explain today why it why all the campaigns even ones it seem like they're primarily US-oriented I really do work together and and we also do work internationally and we try to collaborate with with that groups on the ground and wherever we can but so that's that's my very quick and Introduction to myself that I wanna talk a little bit about the the the the group
and and the discussion I have today but obviously and understanding of of mass surveillance and the way that this around 6 places changed a lot and in the
last 2 years it's been about 2 years since they this node week started dropping out and it it's really uh change a lot people's understanding and in many ways it confirmed our worst fears and I want sound like a privacy hipster here and the EFF had been involved in lawsuits about and warrantless wiretapping for the better part of a decade by the time this makes came out so this is this wasn't completely out of left field and and but but we had a confirmation and vindication of of some of the things that we're alleging on it also in addition to
validating those lawsuits they provided evidence for new lawsuits and so we we found uh things that we didn't know were happening but in
some ways it exceeded the of mainstream guesses of what the World Wide intelligence community was up to and Jeremy will be speaking about in a minute about and the the tech communities response but 1 of the real surprises in this is that the NSA and the other intelligence agencies had gone from being an organization had uh split mission of often defense to being primarily ofensive and that meant weakening everybody security in the hope that there would be able that would make these agencies able to really collect everything and so that's it that's kind of the the super high-level overview obviously had there been a lot of news stories since 2013 about what's going on and so I I couldn't possibly get to get any of it but in any in any real detail but but I do want say that the US policy position has has developed a little bit of there have been a major losses so starting up before all speak about 1 that was really there we just got a really important rowing in today and and uh and there's also been advocacy around but in the last few months of a particular section of loss Section 215 of the Patriot Act and this is the section that that the government claims that allows them to collect and metadata records about every phone call that has at least 1 and the United States and and so this is obviously a huge sweeping surveillance program and and uh and it's up for renewal or expiration so we focused on a lot in that area of the the ruling the came down
today said that actually Section 215 does not authorize that program which is a very important legal victory in and changes the the footing of everyone around that that renewal battle but but but but we'll get into that in more detail and so uh that's can be in the high-level overview of those things and I want us iteration to to talk about an expert things by the and manager McDonald's and European policy manager at access as is an international organization that defends and extends to the rights of users at risk around the world we have offices in the US in Costa Rica in Tunisia and Manila and
in Belgium where I'm based in Brussels and I lead our European and activities and and I'm essentially a human rights lobbyists that sorry just for myself and an axis is divided into 3 arms so there's a policy arm which is when I'm in and we work in the judicial legislations to affect long-term system at systemic change and to make sure that laws around technology are in line with human rights standards and and the tech team works to provide direct technical support to civil society and change actors around the world to use security tools like encryption for instance and advocacy team mobilizes as a group uh a global movement of individuals to get involved in whether the policy process or or to to learn about security tools and to fight for for digital rights around the world the so in Brussels
and we work with the EU institutions so that's the European Parliament and the Council and the European Commission and we work on a range of issues like data protection and neutrality trade and digital rights and and of course surrounds performed so I want to talk a little bit about
what happened and what changes have occurred at since the nuisance since Edward Snowden I release the documents unveiling nasty government surveillance and this around is only the NSA and the NSA is kind of like the Google of corporations that every 1 of these things of Venice and as a result of the gchq but there's also a number of European countries that are complicity various levels in this mass government spying and so if you want more details on that I would recommend if he if you did miss error kings thought to check it out that was earlier this afternoon that explains in great detail and how would this US government sorry how this and government spying is going on but in the EU context on what is changed I will describe in few words 1 is the good she was the man and 3 is that so 1st again what happened after the disclosures and while the attitude changed the level of discourse in the European Parliament in particular changed completely and 1 of the biggest pieces of legislation that we have been working on and was a privacy reform Africa the Data Protection Regulation that was tabled in 2012 and the discourse around privacy completely changed after after and after the disclosures people policy makers in particular they sort of change the their minds that's a little bit where before was a bit like data protection of boring like innovation and I love my iPad 2 well this technology might not actually solve all the world's problems that may be human problems need to be solved by humans and that technology can actually if it's not done correctly can lead to significant problems and so that the threat of thing for a lot of people on the load discourse became much more tangible and that shifted their that discourse a lot which was really great and the European Parliament took undertook a relatively thorough increase on and the disclosures on government mass surveillance and there it was aware um of almost 6 months where they brought in technologists and hackers whistle-blowers and technology companies and they can be of course invited there's some of the governments of the intelligence services that gchq politely declined add to participate by Edison and also um also part of in that and the end result was was a report on providing
guidelines on what can be done about this situation how can we regain trust how can we actually protects and are digital rights are right to privacy a right to data protection a free association and free expression and the problem is the parliament is in the
executive body in the European Union and national security is not the competence of uh of the EU so it's a very good report now and whatever force the at it's not it's not a lot but they are a series of of great recommendations and the parliament is now working on a 2nd and a 2nd report and that we hope will will be passed you know also keep this political momentum and so the men part of it is
that legally speaking nothing really changed and the
EU we didn't see any real tangible efforts from any Member States yet to perform or to to even talk about frankly to talk about intelligence services the powers of their relationship with the with the corporate sector how this is all working and whether or not they can even be brought in and so very little has changed and that data protection reform package I told you about still hasn't passed yet so it's still hasn't really led to a lot of concrete changes the M. the
ugly is that political memory unfortunately is very short and a lot of Member State or some Member States have actually and the EU has started actually expanding surveillance powers so um like you know that a few months ago there was the the show the ADO attacks and is completely change the political climate in the EU particularly in France UK and France and and have actually expanded surveillance powers time and the EU the Parliament is now debating a completely useless at surveillance belong that surrounds vertical the EU PNR Brussels is a place of full of acronyms does anyone know who what you PNR as
a scary he and the other have you so if the European Passenger Name
Record directives now this is uh a directive that words that collects information about passengers flying in outside and between and within the EU this is kind of like travel metadata so and the idea would be to collect all of this information because terrorists exists and apparently we need to do this and when put into a centralized database in order to profile and to an predict or prevent terrorist acts and the parliament actually voted against this bill that last year but after the attacks in France this has been retabled and so this is why I say this is the bad part because the political memory gets it's so short term and that 1 something happens we need to make sure that the political momentum states and then we actually really commit to commit to it could turn into doing something in and pushing and pushing for real change and not expansion and and so all of the that therefore now to the discussions the to to Jeremy before we start talking about
activism or we can actually do about this situation hide under is a man and a cofounder of liquid let that and
organization in freedoms online based in Paris uh I was like Reagan uh working well I was coordinating it full time for a number of years in the last year and like Reagan I was running around the the corre doors of the EU Institutions of until I almost fully lost faith in them and by the I come from a technology goal culture technological background go to start hiking law politics and society and I mean the the the the hikers where you know by reading the fucking manual and and just doing it and when we when we started like liquid-nitrogen children that we were beginning together because we had these common background of haiku culture but also because we were uh commonly fascinated by the interaction between technology and politics namely needed capacity of governments and members of parliament to vote things they have no clue about and in front of that those who had a clue about and would trying to get to make them understand what it was about so it started with this
idea of interacting at the at the intersection between technology and policy and also always do the idea of empowering citizens to understand and participate in the debate and I think that this is what is really fundamental here we can be a thousand to go to the core of Brussels you can be sure that the next day and the industry will have 2 thousand if we get to 3 thousand that will get to 5 thousand and and so on and so on so it is
about making everyone understands uh how they have uh and uh capacity to understand the agency to act upon those issues that I think is absolutely fundamental and this notion of empowerment I think would be not discussed further than when a purely technological point of view it's fascinating it was fascinating to me to see that of course the base children appeared in the public in these documents started to be analyzed and published in and debated of course like all of you guys I have 70 phone calls during the day and for 1 week I couldn't even put the fun back on the on the on the table before it from again of Germany's asking genuinely interested sometimes a bit scared of what's going on and I was so impressed to see
how much all geeks hackers nerds around the world when I ask these questions and maybe not all of them but so many of us came with the same type of answers it and along those lines
that's the 1st sold trust these for ever lost in those companies the prison companies Facebook Google Amazon Apple Microsoft but also the long run company the 1 who was technology was actually sabotaged by the
NSA that which in total is probably 99 . 99 % of the technologies that
we use every day from Cisco routers to welcome baseband chips in the phones to Facebook good g maps you meiji whatever and so on and now we have
evidence in the face of the world that the US legal system yeah doesn't leave any margin of maneuver for anything else than full access to the data of everyone anytime by government agencies and in the area of their public and private partners so a correct me if I'm wrong I think in the US alone that's more than 1 meaning persons who have a security clearance of level comparable or superior to the 1 of was the so in the US alone without counting the 5 eyes and 11 eyes of 14 the Thousand Eyes this has uh without counting the other that's 1 V and people potentially watch you masturbate in front of form what you be alone and talk to your best friend watch you know he he does someone by drugs to get information about drugs will do whatever you want to be uh whatever you want to do in your intuition so this notion that
trust has been lost for ever this is something we cannot integrate it is to be it is too wide it is to do so we could on day 1 stop using will stop using Facebook stop using Apple Microsoft at this so I think here there
is a bias in in human mind is that when you you you you start seeing understanding something that is somehow too big you stop trying to understand you build a mental ward you block yourself from fully understand that so I think there is a very strong psychological parameter here but the most important technical bit here is that we cannot trust those companies anymore the 2nd bit of the the answer that so many of us gave to John is since then is that what is what we do know where do we go from here we have
claimed it for so many years reach of stone and say that uh it literally the the years it was noted was born uh 32 years ago now I think that Stalin was
already explaining to his fellow hackers and hopefully to the masses what free software Frias labor freest freedom software was about that it was a way to collectively build an object from the mind software that will be on collectivity in order to guarantee that humans we control the machines and not the other way around so this is an essential part of the answer but now we see that also we need free hardware because all those forms and routers and computers sold within with the integrated in the remote administration from this at all of them are owned and we lost control over all of them but also decentralized services it's
been 15 years that we've been claiming that this concentration of everything in the hands of Google was do do do do do see for abuse of powers and here here we are always black and evidence of that so decentralized services in the but also the
3rd point of this this holy technological Trinity is end-to-end encryption not trust anyone thing you have common use my service on my computer and is gonna be encrypted therefore it's going to be secure never trust those duty encryption yourself on your computer we somebody doing the encryption themselves on their computer school of end-to-end encryption or else there is no way we can trust the those those products so my main point here is that we have to
not only to to to build new tool is not only to enhance the existing tools but we have to rebuild trust which means asking ourselves what is trust what is the nature of trust in a world where we've been sold for ever that all you can show this company you can trust brands local goods your friend and the whole upon makes you feel smart and so on and so on we we we we far from the chair realizing that maybe you just cannot trust accompanied maybe the only thing you can trust is
another human maybe we can invent organizational modes such as the ones of free software where humans together we build a web of trust network of trust and maybe this is the only way we can read this book book and we
have I think that we do a nice into talking a little about the activism efforts that happened in the meantime and some of them certainly have been but training people to do their own individual kind of taking data privacy and security into their own hands that some those efforts began
before the stone revelations of and I'm thinking in particular of the crypto party movement and started by the activist stature walls that that start before elements nodes that releases documents in fact he had been involved in the in hosting that occur at a party of and after that sort of thing the organization I work 40 FF has has release our surveillance self-defense guide and we really encourage people to learn how to use encryption and to learn to empower those users but to do that sort of thing at the same time and while while we do rely on on the centralized services for for certain things but we pushed to those companies and the and the organization's upon them to operate in much more transparent way and and we have gone but the we the reports we've done evaluating how these companies react to the government you request for data when they're explicitly asked but you can see as you look at the chart from the 2011 and 2012 2013 2014 it changes really dramatically as the public opinion changes in these companies recognize that it's a priority to compete on privacy now a model I don't think that
that the composed of the world can compete with the free software of the world of but these companies did realize that but it's that at least some indicating that privacy is a concern of theirs was something that was very important for them to do but at the same time we've seen grassroots
efforts around policy and legislation and I had the great pleasure in in the summer of last year to flying a blimp over the NSA Data Center in Utah and that had a big arrows pointing down it's it illegal spying below that was to attract attention to a report card US legislators and where they stood on on a on policy efforts and that's the end uh 1 part of it we've also seen that the distant rockets themselves and they the media around them both orbiters document that a documentary citizens for an outgoing Greenwald book but have been tremendously popular there's still absolutely in this and people want to do something about that but and then other aside from grassroots activism and the velocity that I mentioned before I continue and uh legislation happens really slowly the closest parallel to your situation today but at least in the in the US context was uh was a series of privacy reforms in the seventies that led to the fort Intelligence Surveillance Act and the Church Committee error and that was that people
forget that it took a very long time the court decisions can take a long time to but they're a little faster and they can change things sort of overnight and you also don't need to make uh that kind of horse-trading compromises that happen all at the legislative stage so so we
see a lot of good come out of uh out of the core challenges of all around the world but in a lot of places that kind of a mass surveillance has been just declared unlawful it either doesn't follow the statute says past and in in each place for the or doesn't comport with the with the constitution of the countries that it's that that uh you know make up the governments there that are doing these kind despite up so talked a lot about government surveillance but but of course that's just 1 component of it is I think that so this this panel was named but for the surveillance because system we're discussing just before that perhaps ecosystem is is not the right word but there is a lot of give-and-take in our in surveillance and to talk just about what the government could not is really to me is a major component of so I wanted to uh turn to to you and ask about the role that corporate surveillance is played and what has happened in the
last few years in the even longer than that but in terms of the change in the changing the game around corporate surveillance the and they so it's true excitement because the
similar thinking about it like you really want disrupt ecosystem how he is that good for the environment and the mean is like a where a word you guys have ideas of more ominous a force please do let us know what 1 got quagmire instead and so 1 of the reasons why we find ourselves in the mass that were in and I think right now is really in part due to the fact that surveillance and mass around is super cheap and it's super easy in a lot of ways I might have come from a history Background Sometimes they try to look at the present as as looking at it you know a hundred 200 years in advance and I'm hoping for my optimist perspective that people will look back and be like wow what a crazy time technology exploded everyone had mobile phone 1 has this and everyone just went wide undermining rights and surveilling people whether it's for marketing whether that's fervor national security or what have you from that's that's in the positive way that we would actually get control back on but so Birchmeier talks a lot about this fellow canadian at security expert and he got this situation this relationship between the governments in the corpus of public-private surveillance partnership and and this basically you it explains exactly how and and why this analysis so cheap and easy and and and that really relates to the business model on the internet and the business model the Internet is basically premised on mass surveillance as well but as for different purposes of course for online marketing and you know for for money purposes and and when you think about is really odd I think most people returning about you know regular citizens they think of the government looking at me the government seen might've picks you see what John Oliver like that's really bad or like that but then you know everyone has a cellphone and and your mobile your your location can be tracked at the same time if there was a lot of the government that you would have to give all of get the government updated reports and whenever you made a new friend or what colleagues you have a really dating that would be outrageous and yet we willingly give that information to social networks like Facebook it would be the same thing and there a lot of the government that every time you send something to anyone whether e-mail or or text message you need to also send a copy to the government this would be outrageous and yet we do this all the time with corporations and 1 of the most important things that we learned from the the Snowden disclosures is that what corporations know which is a lot of governments can and probably do now and so this connection is basically you you cannot separate these 2 issues this is a lot why when we talk about what we can actually do and how to fix it from false perspective this means that we need to really change things from the ground up and that requires a rethinking the use them the economic model of how the Internet functions as a lot of what Jeremy was saying is completely true we need to take control of our devices we need to make a better decisions about what companies what services were actually using you know maybe it would require doing a little more research or or trying different different tools but in the end it might benefit us and I think we also need to from
a policy perspective Think about not only as security measures like encryption the axis has as a campaign for the script all the things were pushing corporations to raise the bar on basic security information UBS use more encryption is and then encryption which is really great but it we also need to minimize the data collection no it's it's really odd that intelligence services and companies have kind of aligning interestingness to collect all for different reasons but is to collect all only useful at 1 time maybe we can prevent a crime maybe we can make more money who knows what will happen but this is a big problem for individuals and for users and so we really need to rethink and how
and how much companies to do and that requires putting limitations on what they're allowed to collect and for what purposes and this is where data protection comes into play in why some portal for individuals to have control over the information have control over the data that they give to these platforms to understand what happens to a wise being collected who is being shared with and what those profiles but you say that the if we if we if we if we knew the most evil knew what companies can know about us it would it would it would change a lot and the situation and I want food I want to address the conference theme for
2nd and find Europe but do you think that the European approach to these challenges has been more effective at different effective then at the US approach who where in the
US and we don't have a baseline privacy law basically but and and so when you when you say like if people could see what what's being collected in some cases you can you can request of the yard got a copy of the basically the the file on you know how do you think that effective reducing that needs to be
expanded using that kind of uh policies is not the right direction that there's a lot of questions with if you look at understand what what I'm what I mean by that is the what we think it understand what happens the data not necessarily to access the data that they submit into the platform book what the platform derives in terms of the meaning of those different datasets and that's where things get really a key and and we from a privacy perspective and there's a really great study have from Cambridge they came out last year that as these researchers
analyze a bunch of Facebook likes only face like that's that 1 dataset and from those they were able to distinguish with very shocking and and shocking that average accuracy Thank you shocking accuracy and very personal things about people at their sexuality I whether or not the smokers if the parents have been divorced but if the promiscuous like really personal details and I think that's that's the creepy bet that individuals even even under the the European system because we're actually using mostly US companies and which operate primarily in the US framework of privacy in which there is no framework and so from so you see that the lower end of and that and so
the and and that's the thing I think if we if we could get a hold of that and understand
what what that actually means in and what impact actually do and then I think we would have a lot of change then I think that would mobilize at citizens to to make that choice to move to a different platform and uses the easy using ones but I think you guys are
quite optimistic somehow um and I'll at a vector this I wanted to add something on what you said about how surprising it is that governments and companies of a common interest here I would say
it's not so surprising 1st of all know across 20 century of fascism usually was the perfect agreement between corporations and authoritarian that was 1 of the characteristics of the different fascist regimes that it was always the economic interests of the dominant industries in those countries that that in turn that back supported do authoritarian governments so it's it's not something new that we see and lanes between governments and companies uh towards the violating people's fundamental rights what is new here is that did the violation of human rights has been partly outsourced to these companies they're not just supporting uh do do do regime anymore they also being part of the violations and I think this is something new and were also what is new is we don't see the violations of human rights as they were visible in the Dorian authoritarian regimes that before but if you trace back at the history of silicon valley Silicon Valley basically was an incubator for the power from the beginning the Silicon Valley was researching on all advanced technology that was of interest for the military's then think you go this hedge fund link to the CIA who was 1 of the 1st major funders of facebook and personally financed I think it was a Sunday but in 1 of the founders of Google so it could go on with this his research so what we see here is a perfect balance between business models and the state paranoid out considering that the open his but then be anyone anywhere anytime and I'm not sure companies are in any way those companies are nowhere near to change of business model I mean it's nice to ask them for more encryption it's very nice from them to reply all yeah yeah we understand privacy is a major concern would do something about it but as mostly crisis communication the the day communications of truly end when encrypted free software under control of the users to store or whatever on Google Google's starts losing money it goes against Google's interests what what what I think we have here he's a mono culture of security and I think it's not even security because it doesn't work against the reason we see those kids in the US speaking the rage out of Facebook getting uh war weaponry and get an should their their their colleagues and teachers in class what every month without being stopped by the NSA so if those kids are not stop
talkin reclaiming efficiency to those to the schemes but then it is the only model there is out there under the sun is this hyper security model where
you have to trust us will pour more money into the thing and will protect you against everyone these doesn't work and this cannot work because the cyber security
model relies on this heavy centralization and and totally will back process it is about manufacturing ignorance of the users it is putting them in a in a shroud of secrecy where they don't know what it does not know what is being done to them that with technology I think but what we can do you have to work at was the the political aspects we have to do it more we have to be those 2 thousand people in the European Parliament doing it every day it and we have to to to to to make those people accountable for what they do we have to work on the on the technology itself but maybe the most important part is about changing people's minds it's about order the cultural and social endeavors we can we can take in order to make people understand that this is not a security period this is authoritarianism and I think we have still to invent or maybe just to to theorize that as that models like decentralized security where everybody has more responsibility and more control over his or her own uh they died in communications and security process this is how we will achieve resilience when everybody will be a bit trained a bit in control of the trusted for what they know and what they can do this is how we will avoid catastrophes this is how we will stand up after catastrophe is not by trusting those uh logos and the great people were working in the basements watching people must submit to a
hair
do you think that the progress towards that has has
sped reduce think it's slowed by I worry that people talk a
lot about this kind of uh surveillance the key and and of course the the the the John Oliver dictate segment I came as he showed that node in and out of haven't
seen the job but he showed socialist on it's very funny you should watch and it's it's 1 of the most I think uh like direct interviews I've ever seen of of snow they showed a footage of of kind
man on the street interviews where he was asking people do you know where gonna and largely he says cherry-pick most people that he spoke to did or they only had a really the the idea of the sorts of things in your like people of that I've sold secrets of and so that I wonder think
that that we're uh that we had a window that's closing or do you think that there needs to be something that happens but to push that
along further I think that right after june of 20 30 people were definitely talking about this but uh at the I wonder if we've lost about momentum interior but I'm only Jeremy brilliant as well I mean I like and concern 1st of all due to the mere fact that we still don't know were published this interview and get as much
interest I don't know how many million views of the video but many more to come including yours um if you haven't seen him yet shows that there are still many tactics to invent and many ways to speak about it and I'm convinced it is about experimenting in the diversity of of tactics uh writing the story of cells and sorry for the ones were at might produce a band of fighting that terminator pockets of variable in you know and because that's that's some of this so already I think we have to to to build the story to write the story all cells because uh fiction and reality of so much intertwined that we cannot let Hollywood right uh this story this history because it is it is always so we have to reclaim narration we have to reclaim narratives n and what Oliver it did and I think it is the way to go was to find a way to speak about mass civilians that is not generating fear when we heard hackers policymakers social science these and others speak about 7 is we have a view on these we have studied the issue we have those background knowledge about it we usually draw very scary picture of the world because let's face it it is scary but when people are scared when they're afraid they would
tend to self-censor without even knowing they we speak less they will act let's and we want them to speak more and to act more so 1st of all I'm convinced that you what is the best antidote against the so we have to use you more
and more in order to write the story for for ourselves and also I can't even read what I've written here but I think that we are in control of the sequence and we must remain in control of the sequence at Reagan and I have worked uh against act the 4th 4 years have been I don't we've as liquid hydrogen that we've written I think 250 press releases on act of spoken in more than 300 conferences even thousand interviews 4 years before the victory and even 6 months before the victory it was impossible to win every political and in the world was certain about that not only we want but we won't by you crushing majority of 478 8 against 39 it means that a but those
that are impossible to win can be 1 b that it can be very long and very hard work and this is where we are right now we are just at the beginning of the endeavor and see it is about keeping control of what I call the 1st sequence was an uppercase so you don't wait for news to come and be processed by the media and react to it or else you will always be an uphill battle you have to be the news to be to be media be the change you want to be in this world we have to do to get take control of the narratives in order to be able to take control of the sentences in order to be able to take control of emissions you know how that I have and it sounds like an acknowledgment that the odds are along that the look long but that there's a reason for hope I think it was just 1 quick thing if you look at it took more than 10 years to radically change the course of technology and the where we are right thing years basically since September 11 2001 so my guess is
that it will take at this 10 years if not 20 to go somewhere else from sharing can be hard to see where you will be
dead incremental when when we achieve victory that we will achieve victory have great and using that that there's a due green there's there's reason for hope here there has to
be hope would be to solve we have nothing of the i ahead I'm I'm definitely an optimist great but I mean if yeah we we have to keep fighting and and and keep making this this relevant to go back to like how we can make this movement happened I think 1 of the the key components of of John always successful campaign is that it made it relevant to people it's about your private parts now and have this really touched people and I think for privacy thing that not to kind not intended to sorry if is I think I think that's especially for privacy activism in and united surrounds activism is really difficult because privacy invasions of very this scene intangible and like other other and human rights violations and so it's really important for us in humor is a really good idea and a remixing Hollywood like like the terminator was really huge but we need to keep kick to keep thinking about these ways and to move away from the think the fear discourse and and and this will help us and it has to change and we have to take more control over over odd odd digital identities and why say we have 2 is because we live in in in a technologically ubiquitous world you know everything we do is every time we we walk down the street are open IID laptop work or walk with their with their cell phone in our pocket we are our data is being collected and processed and shared so we have no choice but to take control of our own identities that you and I actually think that's a good place to to cut off
the presentation of we've got about 12 minutes for questions and then as the as the sum of the presenter said we do have to be very punctual because the the final yeah because is Germany it's in the rest of the that the was but also the but the ISA so let's take it to questions and I
you must use a microphone because we're making a video of this right ACE the 1st the song was a within so around yeah its 3rd would find K the the uh how
OK so 1st of all about the window that was closing the I think that we need a
positive you know the positive the proposals because people are interested I organized with parties in the more so for the last 2 and a half year and people come they are interested not only being scared but also being given positive proposals so that's that's something I think this is important but I do have a question so the question is that for example I believe that the
only way we can win it is playing working together you know free culture movement free software movement open-access movement we have to like the during the wagons
and work together and 1 way to do that is not used to have these not the users of the new users of for example the centralized social networks have been cut off of being able to participate for example in this conference right so my question is what do would do you see a way of making all those with the central social networks more accessible to and yields because there are many of those social networks I understand why and yields for example have a hard time uh being available mobile social networks that that's a lot of work that's a lot of of tedious tedious work and being you know responsible mobile social networks so and on the other hand as for of developer I know that if I try to write the software that will make it possible
for you know for me to work with Twitter Facebook and something else at some point wouldn't they will change their true terms of service will change
the API this request will have to be uh done again and then there has to be an organization that kind of defense this work that's been done once but for example by putting pressure on Facebook not to change the PIC not to shut off the subject uh traps so my question is do you see a way of of doing that you see a way of helping such neighbors thank you I I do I think
that there's especially in the in the sort of free software the world which I didn't you have people who are not not literal veganism although I into that as well so that people who are willing to make a lot of personal sacrifices that's use free software in in terms of convenience and usability but there's a tendency to think well you get all these benefits of security and decentralization and so that should be enough for other people that
narrative has really handout to frequently so I do think that instead of but instead of using the sort of stick of year of saying you have to get away from these services because vary uh the spying on you and they knew that would all valid arguments have what seems most likely to win to me is to is to offer something better and that's really hard problem and there's that's hard for a lot of reasons uh including the business models that currently exist have but the free software world has done that before and there are plenty of areas where uh were free software has displaced in existing proprietary tool just by being better and so I do think that there is a role for people to to to understand why trees are even was not better but they get much easier to do this
Mike and an easing of answer software is there's a certain like community about it that that is really
great and but it's true that it's not as easy as like that the box software off so can have Jerry's can again at the fact that like speaking personally having bought a computer and using the went to excite it it's complicated but then it's really worth it and being part of that community and having total control of your device really empowering and but at the same time at the same time I don't know if we can really expect that have another 2 billion people that are that are on Facebook or you know that so I I don't know that this is why we say that it's an ecosystem no there is no silver bullet to fixing this problem that will take several like multiple parallel efforts at 1 of them is certainly and
making sure that individuals mangoes have the ability to and find these communities and to grow these communities and
I also think from a policy perspective government should actually be investing not in in you know surrounds but actually in open source software making these tools and security things much easier so you can buy a computer out of the box that will be as pretty and easy as a Mac will actually in full control and in your control and and this is totally possible but again the political will needs to be there and that has to come from from the grassroots community are from us essentially assume this to have to react to that
um he looks more
complicated it may be more complicated but in the end what it means is it it has to be learned to be appropriated by the user and I think there is lot of course we can make all free software better and it is important to do so and we can improve the interfaces and so on but there is a body here under threshold under which we never go like to make it as easy as a Mac because Mac hold your keys for you and don't ask you to care about your but and you care about your keys you would never be the so you have to understand the value of privacy and then you have to understand how quick to words at least to be to understand the notion of what the key is before you care about your making people believe that they will never have to get about holding their keys is probably the way and only our way of screwing them and and and and stealing the trust aware from them so of course we should improved them but people have to learn is like saying all if language had only 20 words it would be so easy so much more convenient yes but we could say much less things and people don't consider see that to spend years in a school to learn how to read and write what I'm saying is that using a Mac with Facebook and not understanding the realities of the techno-political architecture is like signing a contract without knowing how to read and somebody telling you it's too complicated I don't want to learn how to use something that will make me free is like somebody telling you I don't want to learn how to read and write just give a contract already this is I mean that's obviously could
have happened but you say if Reagan said
it is about empowerment and this feeling of empowerment you have when you control your machine
is exactly precisely what we need to share and I'm a bit more optimistic than you about our capacity to do it was 2 billion people because it is about or intelligence or imagination the way we use them and the way we share them together and so it's it's a bet on
humankind some well and then I think also that the to focus only on the endpoints is related to Mr. big picture there are a lot of when I say the things that displaced and proprietor alternatives are almost all
of the infrastructure and then between your Mac and Facebook but you the HTTP at the outset yet all this so much of that but it does come with that has the freedoms guarantees and so I I do think that we can get the end point and I think actually I I'm going out optimistic you I think actually that the that
that if you look at the whole picture that it's were further along than it than it looks like it's not going to look at the desktop Linux panic penetration is not really the the the metric to adapt its units by the parasite that and we still don't
have a right to make make quick I am Alex Imam online editor from Cologne and I have a question of also gonna
let you in on a secret recordings so about 10 years ago I I 1st learned how to entropy males and I use that like I talk to everybody about it
and the workshops and so on and out of the 100 private and business contacts I had at the time like 2 or 3 people were eventually all ready to use and they
were willing to use that so eventually I gave it up so that was the force notice of
course so I'm 10 years down the road there's like the future of surveillance scandal and we all know about that and I like free software open source encryption tools whatever have
become incredibly easy to use and just this morning we talk about a fantastic at which is called
TextSecure and also signal I think the developers even here and like I did some sort of you know like privately operated and suggest that you know like
people should use that and they get like excellent ratings I think the EFF data like 10 out of 10 points like making the best messenger out there and so on so of right now I have about 200 contacts and to demand this at this like incredibly easy to use and install it it's free and
out of the 200 contacts maybe 6 or 7 people are willing to use it and the other state of analysis another messenger and what's up of it's so convenient like what's your reaction to that was so bad what's that he's using is now using that some of the there there are problems with the implementation but it's using the same encryption and like the algorithm that was developed for texture and background in some
cases so I do think that the combination of these really important that but it is that you should continue to meet your friends i've parade all my friend I basically 1 signal came out and this is now cross-platform I basically don't really talk to people who don't use of text here they are way a you know as a as a privacy activists say I have I run in those circles so I but then also in parallel to have that that's happening and i have what's out but implementing to extend end-to-end encryption but really gets you the next the next billion people by doing that so that I think that that's an example where were actually not as weird again we're doing better than that it might look like if if you consider you know what's opposite 1st preparing and it's not that their problems but but but it is using that and an encryption and in some circumstances and have to be the
nosy 1 on this again uh because what's up implementing that secure
political uh still gives what's up the ability you don't know how do the client is the 182 distributed but gives what's up control over how these protocols used and also maybe means that's what's up steel knowing who you are talking with at what time is already better for them and for the NSA than not knowing that if everybody went to decentralized services so it may be seen as a step in the right direction but still doesn't fix it because unless in my opinion you have free software and hardware decentralized services and communications and end-to-end encryption altogether if you miss 1 of those then you you cannot get this level of trust the same and that's a problem I have I think TextSecure don't get me wrong is an
excellent piece of software I really love the way you authenticate your body using uh um uh those QR codes even if those could be you know it doesn't that compromise if you have an themselves were not uh except there was a conflict between what C N and a few others and moxie doesn't want the software to be distributed in any other way than by using Google Play and I
don't want to use Google Play therefore I can logistics secure I think this is something that list to fix and or a few technical details of on this but yes I think the uh intellectual psychological and cultural barriers uh blocking people from appropriating technology a problem here way more important to work on and maybe more maybe these you to to to work on him to fix than the technological and the political ones and when we we were those when we progress on those we have an impact on the others as well so keep keep talking to your
friends about it and also took them about the techniques needed to enforce a regret time that's sadly enough thank you for
this very interesting panel was the last 1 for today but actually the closing event begins just now so and whoever wants to
go there have like 1 minute land so 1 more and study of love for them to
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Disrupting the Surveillance Ecosystem
Serientitel re:publica 2015
Teil 73
Anzahl der Teile 177
Autor Higgins, Parker
Zimmermann, Jérémie
MacDonald, Raegan
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/31962
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2015
Sprache Englisch
Produktionsort Berlin

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract This session will detail modern government surveillance practices, including their reliance on other governments around the world as well as private companies. It will also explore the challenges and opportunities to oppose these activities, including current proposals to limit data use and transfer. Finally, the panel will highlight the effective practices of anti-surveillance activists worldwide who have begun to hamper surveillance by disrupting these networks.

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