Access denied – Russia's approach to internet censorship

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Access denied – Russia's approach to internet censorship
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Since November 2012, we’ve been living in a country with the internet censored extensively by a nationwide system of filtering. What is Russia's approach in controlling the internet?
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thank you for thank you very much for affect me and invited for this great conference my 2nd time here and I will try not to repeat myself because many things so are in terms of Russian Internet censorship fraction established you go
on and it all started tend to fall and 12 Our tho so who we are and what I'm taking about these things are I'm said I'm this donors based in Moscow and I have been covering the Russian secret services for the past 16 years and into falls and my colleagues we're launched the website quoted taken to a doctor or reaches um as a good to services watchdog and the idea was to make Russian circuitous services more transparent wishes and shows very strange idea back into falls and but is becoming even more strange today and then the fall meant and the other and being a bargain Michael again and I we had a book about the Russian secret services collagen you nobility and out ahead and we will have another book coming out this September our but is a title that Web are and it
is if this book is mostly about the Russian attempts to control the Internet and what was the effectiveness of the system of his ideas so Internet censorship in
Russia user based mostly on full strategies the first one is filtering and blocking and we got the system by can before and evolvement wealth and filtered his idea was presented under the textile far protecting children from harmful content now we have 4 blacklists
as the first one it is said to deal the effect sites if information the fact that the fall information chopper number etc. the 2nd 1 is and I did it Lisa as the size of if extra music and and terrorist got content as a felt 1 is about that size we've copyright problems and as the most recent ones the blacklists are consist of websites sites are we've Goals To non-sanctioned manifestations are these last 1 that was used to block politically political websites and that it was presented in introduced in In gender March of Poseidon 14 immediately our free Russian art independently media along with 5 at cycle folic centerline made 2 prominent Russian petition are the book because of input into his 4th blacklist the 2nd thing which is important is a Russian system of far telecommunication interception reaches a very different from the approach you have and in other states have and and talking specifically about a law enforcement and deception I'm not talking about NSA and usage to because it's most about full intelligence used to be and should be about the approaches I different and themselves far how things organized from to begin into Russian approach is much more direct as idea is to provide direct access to the storage and communications of Russian Internet service providers and the of any kind of what forms from negation of registered Internet service providers and that there is some mention all of the need for the court warrants by the problem is that the is the office and that his B stands for Federal Security Service which is the main major Russian security agency have but the problem is that there a war and
there's a FIS-B offices to get the warrant but he has no right to show was warrant to anyone the our societies that he just gets his war shows to his own Shapiro and then starts at interception this knowledge for our for high speed and the internet service providers
have no knowledge about what's going on on the service they have sisters room have no answers to this but a black boxes so far of source and basically they don't want to be guess that if they would have this access it would mean they have far as social security clearance and in Russia it means that you have to establish a special department inside off your company average be defeated by Visby offices and nobody actually had the disease idea and are they try to know as little as possible but occur the possible about interception the 1st thing is a pressure direct site for the pressure on platforms ball domestic and global I wanna know when I'm talking about domestic platforms is mostly about 2 things it's about the yandex has the biggest Russian search engine and is about conducted Russian social network which is quite famous and there's actually a replica LFA phrased as the pressure on Yandex that uh 0 as and the falls in and 8 mostly because of the war with Georgia of that and just after the war our 2 officials from the administration of the president officers of the and X and requested to explain them why if you go to the young Yandex front-page see 5 newts 5 thought news and why at some time you can see our the news from the war reported by Georgian media they're completely unhappy effect and their request that young Dexter chains algorithmic of
choosing the news actually is a guy from the research of the prison Pavlidis let's recall of even pointed out to 1 of the media shoulder our observations that these is our enemies the I Yandex decided not to comply that into falls in the nite about depression becoming more and more in and bands and I think the fall than then the 14 as the situation changed now if you look into the the main page of young but you can see that that the choice of news is quite are strange our it's not about facts now is most about commentary sometimes it's judgments sometimes you see that reduction here are there's some sort of and censorship in inches and is this is news and the guy who was in charge of the and that's our news department and he left the company
as the 2nd companies of goes conducted as a pressure put on these company was even more direct probably refer who was the founder and our to chief of
oppressive or executive of a self conductive was actually expelled from the company by the hours a arXiv use Moscow Protestant evolving 11 and the and 12th on the refusal to this sounds a context and to close down trotters groups but by 2 follows an unforeseen as the pressure goes so really really are hard to on him and he was forced to leave the company he was appointed by his son and all that the Director General of the Russian telecommunication got the division company that it aircraft as it was a very strong signal to the everybody but be control Italy's and now our sons my control is internet now what what what happens if a global platforms well
here and is few words about Mr. Snowden's by this small the landed in Moscow and Russian Parliament
immediately picked up his ACM it maybe they would try to use his argumentations and he's ideas to promote and to put pressure on mobile platforms are misses no was invited by the Federation Our Council upper hand of of the Russian parliament to take part is the special investigation of
Siamese use all file Russian citizens personal data are he decided not to participate but nevertheless I is a GM that global platforms like Google and Twitter and Facebook and these
use Russian citizens they death personal data was promoted widely inside of the country and used as a pretext you propose that idea all for location of sorts of his company's to Russian so and these are legislation was you know approved and is a special wine inside of this of this legislation which states that I as the Stormers obvious companies should be and should actually provide access for the Russians egregious services this sexual it's not about Russian personal fellow citizens data it's it's about access for the Russians good services to the personal data of Russian citizens who tried to use global platforms
doesn't talk I'm most of these measures are presented and the wasn't 12 2014 by the band and the father 14 so now we can try to pack the what the facts the and they're both filter and was introduced and enforceable by pressures be to services and Russian afford to and many of 1st nice reaction of finance our full being not very cooperate evolve to be followed it hesitant to installs a proper equipment but nevertheless Eve about technical is Russian filtering is not very sophisticated if you want to access so as a particle website which is blocked you can use very simple methods you can use story can use it and Google Translate level what and you can use some other measure is so sometimes even now 4 our brawls there my hope that to bypass censorship are communication interception we all feel that that happens in you updated our capabilities of saw would be used together position but actually very few people are the identified
thanks to song and I we don't see you must oppressions FIL perceive and thousands of people sent to jail because they are messages so critical Boston are intercepted by our circuit to services and used against them we have only 1 case if a girl are and that she was briefly sent to jail but that's only 1 example just complete them comparable the gesticulation saving talking Our pressure on the Mr. platforms I guess it was bought a
successor form because as I said the and that's are both changes they are it's uh it's about algorithms and now they decided to register as the Russian media some of these services now specially registered and which means that they are decided to provide for direct access for the Russian security services for these our services and global platforms the the but let me the most said part of the story but it's all somewhat many offenders Sadato correct just a month
ago there was reported Google finally I decided to have a service and Russian so anniversary comb Russian nationals state-controlled operator of ball happily unknowns that now they have Google Source mainly guarded facility of 1st circle the same thing cause report about eBay and PayPal bots to be frank
are there is a special reason why the is technically on unsophisticated approach was successful for and these reasoners wall we have is a wall of a serial or as knowledgeable that Ukraine is it's a quality information war and the rational for just a very consistent but we are acting as a war gives the West and in this case are the Memphis and the idea is used
as a Russian of just use their very sophisticated and most of them as a combination of technical means obvious intimidation it yeah we got Crimea and accident in March and immediately at the Russian pool government activist launched their website quoted after that you don't matter which means not traitors In a few days are Vladimir Putin are delivered the speech circle at Crimea speech about the annexation of Crimea have an in the speech he uses the very same language is set above the 5th column and he mentioned that trait of national traitors the same hit the send a he he made a speech free Russian independent websites as I and actually I mentioned them yours neutral conspire after trauma and granular true along the if no 1 a block a blocked a few days before our eyes commands or Russian answered about communications to pairwise and agency Our blog at 18 groups and conducting send groups disseminate pro Ukrainian propaganda so in this case is see but it's clear how the Russian forces use technical approach the of the direct intimidation have pressure on domestic platforms our is X expulsion of level of was preceded by by 2 letters he published on his patient conducted the first one was as a request from the as is the to open and to provide personal dating from my personal information about people whole 2 pots and what should it commented on enough conductor groups about Ukraine in my done the depression global plot and the depression the my support from cells also goes to young and Yandex was forced it to present 2 different maps of Ukraine all if all we what Courmayeur Crimea for the Russian and for Ukrainian our audiences and this example was followed by other companies pressure on global platforms of Russian authorities insist that have now are global plots and should have if no exception to relocate 3 service of this service are about to Russian because these are geared I is a special case about chromium and they said that decided to stop delegation are domain names are allowed to train that some of the people who live in Crimea I have no answers to all our craft services and that's why this is a very good reason to say that now we have to have all as self mobile platforms on Russian so and the had any resistance
while I in terms of global platforms them basic raise if they and all of them I meant for his book The than Google that all phi placed officials the
Moscow but decided not to I have to say anything about the results of these talks so the cow 7 global plot so there are resistance I got I can about the Internet industry only local small local Internet service providers decided to resist they are actually we hope that for example obtains a real of like release of by that sets and this is the source of information about what's actually is blocked because officially is a blacklist is completely secret ostensibly to not promoted is by that sets and that's why why we have this information Our together also some groups of artists and the first one is the response of responsible of each is a project off suppose abiding and extremely good are not exposing the practices of far blocking and filtering and they actually become the main thing is that I'm at least all far by websites and it's a it's an astonishing thing because official is therefore to say but we have only few files size block in fact it's about dolls also falls and but the most the problem is that it's about but the technical if the system is not very sophisticated they try to use that rural part block and and combine it via FOB looking on our and R. B. Give genus block in and it's it's it's mostly as an efficient efficient Russian
Wikipedians national Wikipedia is a is a great source of inspiration for many of us because I've data attracted by our estimate of virus commands or repeatedly but it's start at the far copyright issues Cervantes goes for some of
our articles about make 1 for example and they resist and there's is Beverly and they give it up and not a single article Jonas borders we still have bloggers and Jonas who are brave enough to expose things about Internet censorship in Russia and the fusileers
it and actually if you want to to get his information you can find it easily he also I can find friends for these people that you can find information was going in Ukraine and the here as such a point out that I choose the most the biggest resistance are we should be thankful for for the network itself and rational voices as maybe you know all of a system to say but there is no Russian troops in Ukraine they have the underestimated separatist official point of view and they're all kind of information about Russian troops in Ukraine was suppressed as some of our Russian Jonas would be to not fall publishes information but then something happened fits in that Our at start and end now is the sum of the last year Russian soldiers very young simple minded people Central Crater to to Ukraine start at both the things and Boston about their exploits in Ukraine it looks user like the this guy was posted on the border and he bought and his message about the just are short on Ukraine and and it's a section of about 1 that but about many messages and there he is he is easily identified and he was identified by Russian Jonas use approach a basket questions so actually the soldiers not activists not donor not bloggers by the soldiers guys who never for them of being critical of the forces they explore that our are the silence around Ukraine just because it's about the network as the Russian for just made a great mistake me for that they if they can control the cold opening it just like they are at the at the farm a Russian 2
television companies and Russian media they can control the network and let's proved to be at a really big big mistake so what's next
and the older have some oversight so far the strategy and our i which might be used hot say today to moral on next year and EV users us something which connects their father Russian ideas person ideology we have a special terminal Janaka little Skimmia Mirochas Russian walled says ideas right we have a special key immunity of people Russian-speaking people as a Russian the forces the Kremlin has some sort of follow-up to tell this people what to think how and what to do and it goes not only for some ontological thinks but also for for the internet as rise in August that the father 914 begat examples the Russian forces tried to suppress information beyond the Russian borders and Russian answers are tools that of organize the manifestation which is actually a was the performance as a manifestation of school of for for the realization of this idea the idea was to be more of the other Russian our inspired our referendum on Crimea media and the spot and just to have some sort of many decision enormous appears bot rational for just existing seriously and commands or oration special wardens still forging that sites and some of them the base not in Russia but in Ukraine and Israel and some of them decided to comply which was really astonishing and some of them are exposed to information ends and posted online this award is from a completely different country what happened next and the next thing goes even more storage the Russian afford to send a request to do our very famous are hosting providing draw many of the Hudson asking them to take down some of these that size for publishing information which abundant in
Russia and this presenter really fascinated think it's some think about Russian forces trying to our to our to force is the so-called based in only to do something for me if I was the Ukrainian media and the prior of falsely are had now decide to comply maybe they just didn't understand that this was not about how it might be this request of originator Poland Ukraine I'll know but no disk on the floor that made a splash in the media and has no was forced to apologize and so it was not blocked what happened next and in a
sense what Oscar mother was not add that 1st and in year and some size some but size in Kazakhstan got warnings
from Ross commands or for publishing in for much information about update uh about a chubbily Abdullah and about sites in the and Kazakhstan decided not to comply but nevertheless it reflects what might happen next it seems so there is no force if we want to we want to control the the all formation about Russia and Russian language In maybe not only in Russian language and because in the summer of last year the Earth's commands or also are should toward into phosphate I'm not and no requested them to block his video both upon the website all thought of biosphere up Suffolk about is in Russia I turned out that this this year was actually possible NuSuper and there was a link I use the by basket and bastard tools has nothing to do their fathers media but huge you decide that talk rate and there and his view was taken down to this case that I cannot only but Russian-speaking facts but also about English speaking of information and now that's maybe a as the most ah placeable scenario for the Russian of voices to our a to take in in in in the years to come about my friends
thank you and cocktail and have any questions great published announced yeah the specialist perceived was a russian just when you about many thanks for your brave I have another question in this after that it's not just about blocking and about removing it is also about story of generating massive amounts of correct
content what about the other side of the
absolute right I fought I was I need to add these things but there are 4 that maybe there was a topic of discussion is hot but it's about how the Russian afford to start the silence and to suppress information and not about this information and and and that the the ideas of speaking this information but there's absolutely right we have you troll forms are in Russian they're extremely x is a problem of them have an extremely active not only
in Russian the whole system that if an N in English and French and Italian and maybe even jomon and it seems resurrection of forces of employer lots of people hours have basically on at x if and most social networks begin false information about was gone and Ukraine is most about Ukraine yeah the and
so I have a bunch of questions as usual but 1 of the things I'm curious about this loose from 1 2 and 3 right it's of direct access to the internet and then defect inspection of analytics on-site basically from business essentially the same as Collier where the FBI for example has direct access to telephone which of the telecoms now the problem is that this was
in the sense that if it didn't about Kalyan for the idea was that stands interception is conducted by the retinal buys ABI modern modern version of clear the way it works is yet he secretly
calorimeters Cisco router and if you are the ice you can't even see the FBI has logged into the router and they directly axletree that data yet the automatically you got to write about the modern western
but is a beginning and the Collier was designed and indeed different way the Russian approach was designed and back in the 19 eighties section where the reason why it's so direct so don't you see the word heading towards a convergence like for the for censorship methods are actually also the for surveillance and censorship methods for the whole world we see that some 1 2 and 3 and that's like the early Collier and the later clear and then eventually all converges on excuse for light stuff in Germany in Russia and the United States and I mean it seems to me that these things are sort of identical with the difference being that the extreme amount of political pressure and censorship that happening but for example the CEO of quest was asked to do a dragnet surveillance and was put in prison in fact basically for refusing so we see similar tactics all around the world and I wonder if you could speak to how we can get access to the song boxes like that like 1 you can get me
1 and I like to reverse engineer and I'd like to find a really engineers are built it if you could give me the names and photographs while would
have to give you an and the names of companies and photographs it's actually it's easier and to publish some of this information on permission for kind in our 1st international website but you basically true art yet basically correct and I'm I remember that long day that's the 1 school at storm operas monster always this is basically your answers right and maybe I
think we run out run out of time from under no and do have implicated in this identifier questions anymore not coming it
and but thanks a lot of a question do we have quite a bit stream of this pressing news stories coming out of Russia uh was funded on a very personal basis was it like operating as an investigative journalism journalist in Russia and I will commit issues the face on a day-to-day basis on middle thinks is the
1st thing is that maybe not stand when I try to other does my book add to the published as in other states it means and my previous books and you nobility was also felt the published in the states and all of the year and it follows the to Russia and immediately our Russian avoid societies that the Russian publish asking questions about watching founded his book by mining bubble I made it was CA as was the biggest problem is 1st to get a story published and the usual ways to publish it 1st in in the west and then my beer on some Russian media you might decide that they might publish some pieces of this information and Russia which happen for example if on mitigation about us events and so she refers published it in the garden and only after few months some Russian media picked up some pieces of his story by the biggest problem is
not censorship the biggest problem is on so the bot that the message is suppressed the biggest problem is so that it seems to be a loser now audience if you want to find information but what's going on say in Ukraine find and there is and that this is because think about Russian propaganda now it's
not inspectors Russian propaganda is not intended to convince you to soften change your mind it's just the idea of this propaganda just to assure you are you know our presumptions about something so it just Russian propaganda just meets expectations so the problem is that we are not in a position to to argue about thinks the baby has the audience stricter divided so we have the minority which is quite a now understand what's going on and they have the majority some say 85 % collections support put in a region already have established the use and that they just don't want all listen to what I tried to say that the biggest challenge and think it's actually almost
answered my question and that was mostly about what is the source of the problem was the essence of the problem is this censorship you experience inside of Russian or is lack of demand for your independent reporting inside the pressure because it's completely different
problems and in that context my questioning if any 2 you would be how we can help from other countries display understanding the situations there's no problem with testament outside of Russia and you might even have a goal in time for reporting independent using other countries so
here probably correct me if I'm wrong that is not so much what the hell and in my interest and there's nothing we can do about it you may incite
RSS because that would be seen as they're basically intervening in foreign there's said no nothing so he could expand on that thank you all to be frank it's not that the new problem and
lived for this thing to the 2 years ago on 4 years ago and that we think that maybe and I mean microcytic introductory the fall but but maybe is an as desired so effective approach would be to try to make Russia stores International have bad for example what's why be chosen social Olympics our as an example of freshness of state the the idea was to show what just as an example the head is local situation it's a case study of searching but that might be used to show the war what kind of surveillance that we have what kind of limits what kind of fire it techniques of what kind of procedures we have in Russia and that its qualities of the 2 physical understand that if you have these things are introduced in Wan CCA this practice might be already expanded to other regions all will be exponent and very near future that's why we publish the story in in in in in the garden and that 2 different
my ambition was the and to try to make the whole she all well once more international and I was asking a
few months ago to provide a testimony for European Parliament to make is this debate about events not only folks don't tonight estates 5 countries are but less countries was European countries but also she ate Russia to et China to add
other countries because sometimes we have is a assumptions that these countries mostly because they are not so so sophisticated technological
and they might be missed that laws that vowel are behind as the most advanced countries these is the biggest mistake and just 1 example our GPI was 1st used effectively and the so the former Soviet Union in Uzbekistan not in Russia because in Uzbekistan there's no limits there's no all any kind of file on parliamentary and others that the public undecidable what might be used on telecommunications and used in Uzbekistan is a very good example of how the 2 that that that the the state my use very advanced acknowledges art to spy on people and now it's perfect but that is a case for Russia so I think if we can have these and to make this debate to international but would how the Russian journalist had to expose stores Russia because too many things are really it connects it's that acknowledges of each v buying and exporters arrest and reverse acknowledges that practices we should be export import from the west and they are happy export them as Russian to uh the Russians saw was not only on the issue for Russia souls of PC an issue for example for for Ukraine and ideas
Ukraine Oxford has the same system of telecommunication interception and it means maybe they have not only the same procedure as they have the same technologies to it and that means they buy lots of its staff from Russia which is
now not in the life I would say so it's a it's a true international thing it was my answer hence term it and this might be
kind of a naive question but uh you set it as far as he knew there was no real consequences to their telecommunication intercepted in Russia of that right now I said that I don't have examples with people that actually
sent to prison because many messages that intercepted our you know our by States all
basically Madrid effects so it's so maybe I maybe a few cases but so you nevertheless it's it's clear that it's not about punishing of people so my question is about you personally for your work are you
aware of this that you might be intercepted to you talk openly on the phone how to how do you work under this circumstances well I as I said
I started rising above the Russian cities shows his bike in 1999 so I I was there few optimal mitigation and I was almost accused of disclosing state secrets so I should pursue it I might be constantly monitored so that some I just got used to it I used to serve some techniques I use some things I was it was by my friends from to from Peru's international from from year 5 on Mount but their basic says that some that said that some think about security guards secure charts it's about not to user female are based the the service based in Russia was the thing and
OK any other questions she from no contented so 1 of the things that you said in your talk that I found the shocking aside from the sort of slave Snowden bashing which is apparent in some of the things that you've said before in general quite understand is that you sort of seem to imply that surveillance is alright when intelligence agencies are doing it in certain circumstances and they wonder if I understood that another line and not to
my my mind military intelligence would be legitimate surveillance is not just try here I have some sort of far distinctive line it is a law forcing them and deception and then government because it just legally is it's it's uh it's about different things for example in russia envisions girlfriend abroad is a there is no legal reasons for that so for example if you ask me about how about any kind of limits for the for antigens so that's our intentions got from there's just there is no legal procedures for any kind of things my views but that was my point but I about my point
was what you legally as a law-enforcement interception in Russian we should have these things like cost wanted such right etc. completely untransparent that's my point of course I I'll try to justify antigen goffering and all this stuff through would you say that the world you'd like to see is a world where the surveillance is actually
not possible to do it all where the surveillance is really individualized instead of happening at scale now after of course I a I don't support any kind any idea so far are
must surveillance I think is just so unacceptable it hasn't snowed in actually helped with making world very the problem
is that some he asked this question and there you go and put to provide a very
user fonts and actually it was used by putting some opposite France and the engine and putting himself to show let us know this completely free to talk about anything she wants to ask the problem is that in Russia muscle well this is not the issue as a big problem for us it's targeted surveillance I might give you more details but it's really a very technical stuff Russian Russians events and is more syntactic it's about was the because of lack of capabilities we have a big problems today debate as a basis that's that's the 1st thing I is the problem of my problem node than it's that he tries to pretend that he is not in russia he just somewhere in something but can never give any interviews to Russian journalists alter local foreign enjoyment is based in Moscow he never ask and answer any questions about his circumstances in Moscow and then in December December hit differ drawn it if you on argument when he's aggressive because he fears about his life because he said to them international that actually has no fear for his life you might as well travel our free and use Russian and
mammals go underground love of but he was completely untransparent nobody knows what's going on here nobody in nobody can actually should understand what's going on and there is no real reasons why he keeps his our our by himself finding such a strange circumstances and I explain you why I'm so what is really true I mean the US government once to put in prison for the rest of his life and the US
government is active with intelligence assets in Russia who you really believe that CIA he squads might kill human Russian so nobody believed that they did dispatcher jet to take him from Europe which was documented in John good time I know something about the
library the line and talking about he's present conditions in most of it and you believe that the US government wants to extradite him and charged him with espionage I mean that's a
very clearly documented thing the United States wants to do and Europe will not give noting asylum and the Council of Europe is even afraid to pass certain things that would help him so why is it that you don't recognize that the US government is a threat to node if even Europe what help them why is that why should be reviewed those things going on and yeah that's right i for the other thing about physical secure jobs known and
unknown think and he that he doesn't think he is he's threaten the physical ideas is threatened by it has has done to it he might be extradited but actually there's no all our traversal Corporation themself extradition it in Russian and other states is impossible Putin said that that explicitly the problem with me but nobody knows what's going on of him and in Moscow and valid so it's
if these guys says that his all photos balancing wine dissociative in most what could you brought me any reasons for
that well I think it's quite clear that he received political asylum there yes under
threat so you figures on the contents of this video for it implies that there is some special conditions and I don't like the idea of special conditions
especially if yes you know I don't think there's special conditions there it's quickly reduce German cancel this
task forces from travel onward yes absolutely but I'm not I'm not talking about why he he cannot leave the
rest and that about what is good what he's doing inside a fresh them and it's very clear that here's operational security concerns and affected your bitter you don't get an interview is kind of a pet usually way to phrase his security concerns and I mean the reality of the situation is the US government once equipment prison forever the tortured Chelsea Manning they put a gun to the head of building in the shower
whistleblowers about intelligence community in United States and the so what have already met in danger and this node and is not an exception Snowden is in fact the most endangered people from the intelligence community you would like to harm the state itself clearly wants to do it and legitimized way what something is
is the it's is a problem but he is accused by me and I don't think it's were actually right thinking is that this will be some sort of spiteful for Russian which is x absolutely as great as it is that sort of the problem is that the face is kind of thought our accusations as the best thing is to just be open to get an open and to say what is good and pulled from my own it's been so tell you why I'm so concerned because when I was under pressure from this is the and that's happened many that's iPhone that's the best reports to do with kind the this kind of art for the pressure is to go public because it's a good service so this imply that the few I read for any kind of secret talks they think and balls of the next thing the next stage is just some the finds of the proper key to propose a proper things which which would still have to to challenge here but don't you are and you had to make you have some sort of agent and that my eyes EMI across was always to go public affair pursued by this is the immediately have summarizes if I news agencies to go public and to say well I was a ball buys if his B and that helps me
to have sent this pressure in his case he was approached by this is the which was actually was surface he is provided via for the lawyer
who was actually a cost a lot of the if his B is on the board of this is is the his lawyer in Moscow account Gospi? anglers but he is he's actually from the public council that has b and the than does this other to set nothing about these things which is strange I mean it seems it's clear that you're under
threat and you're in this situation it's very easy to demonize of a refugee and I think that's a really shitty thing of you to do and I think that that's really sad and the fact that you're doing that here
in the West to me is even sadder I wish known could come here basically to debate about this but that you look at a refugee under threat and you say that he's in some kind of tribute to the Russian authorities is just bullshit you have no evidence for it
and the fact of the matter is is under threat and you should support him he supports your global debate against this mass surveillance and against targeted
surveillance it's very clear he wanted to start that debate analytical that my global demand you
you think that it isn't you no has has using every top here every single talk someone talks about so that is about all of us all of humanity
beyond national borders and very importantly at an identical argument about what uses of the maybe get began to see but I don't think it's
a it's between us thinking that I didn't so that a comfortable after world again and this another question sorry the
at things measured art uh medical question because you brought up the Russian information sources speak pushing beyond its own borders and a lot of times we hear RT for example put it as just another piece for the Kremlin and a source of English-language media have as set Russia do you agree with that view and how you perceive the role of media from Russia you towards other markets and other countries well I think the the answer is very clear that it's just a propaganda tool
ah yes there's some issues that they but it's not they tried to different actors from say is that this issue as doctors adopted officials used by this over the 4 to say 20 years ago also 2 years ago and the question was sense doctors will just to promote the great image of the Soviet Union Bob Loblaw now it's more sophisticated and the idea is just to give the room and Z as a time for critical voices which is find our because of how many of of humorous
organizations based in London all and another states told me our medicine actually to be difficult transfer land because they are pressured by out every almost every day and I have presented of opportunity to voice their concerns about what's going on in say Britain and in other states and they just don't know what to do because they're not ask you to say to justify Russian actions we have to ask you to provide the analysis
the critical thinks about what's going on in their own countries and this is a very big challenge but you have to maybe to understand that if you are talking about the and other products the user was the most important thing is bonds and then when the can about say things artsy broadcast about surveillance while I cannot find the mild examples fanouts you makes any kind of thinks about what service and Russian there is no critical reporting about the but but Russian our our effects it's it's not about Russian it's all directed against West it's various about straightforward thing it's very critical about it but it's it's critical only of of the West
thank you thank you very much for your insight