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Fireside Chat: Peter Sunde

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the the the which might be back on the date you haven't been like that 2 minutes not humans you work he did on everything that is and am a very happy about that she should be on everything and she's up here next the spiral of silence is not the case here make you will laugh enough that can happen in the next half an hour Peter I would just like to start by saying the last time I saw you at a conference I didn't see that person as so you that from the video broadcast it the conference in moment OK and he was speaking from a place that was not to be known you know and I would like to 1st of all say how happy we are to have a union person and I think you'll get another big round of applause thank you to do so my theory introduced you and I'm sure most people in the room no you for the things that you've done
and so on and I'm sure that the last 2 years you know we followed a little bit the path that you've taken a lot of
those things have changed because something very impact for of course happened in your life which is the spends 11 months 6 6 months yes yes this time by
stories so in 6 months in prison yes and that's a life changing experience and I would like to begin with our legend has the and I would like to begin with the question the point in time I mean there were a lot of coal cases that you had when you try to appeal the decision and you try to you know make people see that this was a wrong decision on the major Chinese thing to jail but the where was appointed high you how early on was that was that when you already found the Pirate Bay was that initially before you knew that the sentence can be revoked that you decided that this is something he would be ready to go to jail for what I think that we kind of understood quite early on that there's gonna be some sort of legal case but we were quite sure that there was totally legal what we're doing and I'm quite certain still that it is and it was never about the legality of the system was about power who rules uh the course and the politics and and we were not those people um but it's not like you take a stance 1 they say I'm going go to jail for this whatever it is like things gradually
change and it grows bigger and bigger and bigger and then in the end you do you have to like skip everything and but then usually it's too late or you just go with the flow which I tend to do in most things anyhow so he sat on it was a matter of interpretation and the interpretation that the Swedish courts took which but I would say interpretation actually I said that they wanted to find us guilty and if they find
some way of doing it I'm actually 1 a few people ever convicted of aiding with aiding with possible corporate infringements lighting this is government wanted to set as president with you like that but that the thing the happened I don't know how many people follow the court case but are what happened is that uh and the Hollywood industry was really really upset about what we were doing so they went to the White House and the White House said Sweden come here you have to answer to our complaints and threaten Sweden with in both with the US and also in the world trade organization so if we did not do with the US said they would have to stop trading with the countries of the world and Sweden is not a very big country and it's a lot of uh when the people running the politics sometimes so they just went back to Sweden and
said to the prosecutor which some of they're not allowed to talk to the prosecutors and about such specific cases but the toll like the consequences
also what will happen if you don't make sure that these people are not running this and so there was some of the high level so there was a lot of international lobby pressure basically to its yeah yeah and and the funny thing was like Sweden thought this was like that they're not really used to this like that they were pressured by the United States government to be put on the same list as Cuban Pakistan at the moment which is very on like not really happens in the Scandinavian country so they were not used to kind of dealing with this so they denied of course as they think you should you should deny all of the existence of pressure and so on whereas the Hollywood Motion Pictures Association were like super happy based brag about like we made them do what we wanted to have this like they pulled down the
patterns of the Swedish government and made us realize what was going on so everything was this kind of a show so no 1 in basically no 1 in Sweden took the court case as a report case and and was a lot of controversy
around do you think there may be like 1 1 as point about Sweden that it's actually write down to that international
pressure in misleading is known to be 1 the most liberal countries in Europe and upholder of of rights in many ways late where is labor rights and forms of human rights and yet on the other hand you will not the only internet activist to be prosecuted in Sweden and and made this analogy sometimes that has sometimes seems like this perfectly happy family that has a bit of a cold starting in the center when it comes to its level approach all Sweden is as every
country in Europe is changing its because of globalization and because of the fright movement that's going on in most of Europe with the new immigration hating plan parties and so on all of these things happen and that and is we're kind of going going to a place where we will have to be equal countries but it will be like the minimum thing we want police often there's no big difference between Sweden and Germany and site is the times of where things that tend to the
moment and the same goes with the European Union wanting to be a federal state and it's going to be 1 big country in the and basically that's
what's can be passed some pertinent some purpose as well but there's also like another chance for small countries stand up for actual ideals because it's too expensive rights and I mean that is definitely a very daunting direction they were heading
on or I wouldn't change you can eventually will and so I mean in the very beginning a couple of interviews
in the last couple of months where you've wastes yourself quite critically about some of the projects that you also helped initiate the um especially part Bay and and and that basically is taking a turn for the worse and can you explain a little bit ways of distance himself from the platform but I think it's like if you're honest about your reviews and your ideology and the things you want achieve you should actually be able to criticize don't things you're doing and when it starts going wrong and stand up for like mistakes of done and so on and that's the only way like I could honestly
with myself as like OK I don't like what's going on right now I was part of that and taking a stand saying this is not what I wanna do anymore this is wrong but is that because you've changed personally is a because the the platform change the cell as well of course in many ways and maybe you can pinpoint what it actually was that made you feel like this is nothing you understand behind any more of those a lot of things like there was a focus on like in this talk about piracy less talk
about freedom of speech and so on from the side of properties of Part which is like the most crucial thing to do which is why you have a big part for me so in order to use the leverage that attention into something which will actually change said something else and when we do that all the time with partly we played so much we part as a concept and we are we didn't care about like the consequences for you know had sales whatever you that you could be interested in is never about that at all and I you can how like you head up
high if you go for more more aligned and the current people that were running apart they're more interesting like less conflicts and they actually removed the best part of the part which was the legal threats part where all legal threats apart they received was published with our answers which were hilarious and super fun to read were told what to fork office and you know use language like that which was amazing and which I think is also 1 of the biggest things that may partly babies like to actually be aggressive and on the that of being defensive trying to hide and and me chains and at the same time poppy has there's no new development it's been the same thing for 10 years and stunning away of innovation because it's like it
has all of the attention off the power it was a revolution in itself and in the many people you know open the door to seeing you know the
whole way that we approach Cont interest ibution in the internet in a different way but then it didn't take off to actually change the say this cavity the change the powers that are uh when it comes to the control of which content we receive why do you think that you know what started becoming then I think it's so in loci people running it to begin with that including myself like we're not so
anomalous for organizing and we were not administered if people didn't have like these heights dictations we didn't want to start a party there someone else started pi party none of us voted for them it's like a none of these things Max there remain a mixed them together and I I believe that noise you not good at doing something you should just an aside and that's why things don't change because it was not the right people at the right place and there are all the people who are the right people but they're definitely did have attention that we had so we're actually you a little bit in the way of other people's attention on say and yet you just mentioned of the development the Pirate
Party many things come off from there like you sit back and look back the next 10 years what you think you know what I mean there's a lot of the critical things we have to stay in the session but 1 of the positive effects that has had where you sort
of look at them and say yes and I'm glad that we continuity without change what if there's a lot of things that a really cool that happened our but most likely to make people realize that you can do something else the status quo because we really that like we really made a lot of people realize that OK what I'm seeing here is not necessary to and then you also have direct consequences of people being able to foster like a bigger cultural life you have a beer culture impacts our people or studying music and information all over the world I was just in Brazil and people are a super happy about partly because no 1 serves Brazil as a country because there's no market there's no money so in order to get any form of cultural influence mother countries you have to download it in this simple employer sometimes failed to recognize this this 1 can be different perspective talking about them here in Europe where we have uh yet different forms of access to different things a friend of mine that's also he
conference comes from Kenya said all well and shake the hand later because thanks to you we have access to all these movies where I come from and that actually is not only in like that even the same
thing goes in in europe like you have the whole Balkan countries which have a different view on this as well because they did not have access no 1 cares about the poor countries except people that function because it's about communities not money it's not a market it's something else and that's you know what I'm proud of part based that we did not care about the money was always about the hybrids and so I'm getting back to the the Prior policy he was around them
user ran for office yeah and is that something that still due today you know why I I I kind of fire like to try new things and I like to play with things like the thing I wanted was to get a little bit of attention for the the courses that I are interest than them interested in so freedom of speech and informational stuff uh men also animal rights and all of these things I made made 0 really funny campaign video which you should not Google and check because it's really it's really awful but it's really funny basically me trying to be romantic kissing
the camera and with some romantic music Singing nothing about politics but it made the kind of the Finnish newspapers right a lot about the weird guy that's running for office for the small party and they asked me about my politics my ideology so I will be did that I'm done with that something into the next thing I know it's not to do with the rise and fall of the
higher priority in or it's more to do with your personal experience there was no big right it was a small price done now there a rising like
Iceland and all the countries which are doing the things that I'm really happy to see that they're actually putting like a real political agenda there for the parties like this you not just 1 or 2 a 3 things as the party's sweetheart Francis and it's a real political beliefs with a full ideology which is more honest than much better so there might be something coming out of that seems to be working in Iceland but it doesn't seem to be working so well in other European countries as
jemmies another good example for that and why do you think it's what can I say is it because they had to failed states scenario that they had said that they had like the pressure was too big and it's not big enough he and that's why I think there's a lot of things to come together so there's difference that the
financial crisis on Iceland it's a small country so it's faster to do things that you only need to come in so many people and then they have really good people in the party that better known from before and people trust so there's a lot of layers of this on the carbon Germany was quite big for a while and then it imploded because it became kind of people that really into the idea of having power and which is not what you should be after if you're report issued after change maybe power is a necessary step to do that but they were focusing on the wrong thing is what I saw from the outside and but 1 thing that is kind of the problem here is also that the if you compare with the green movement the property were not really fitting really have this grand idea of the world still have a grant of the off like the small subjects of these
topics that they care about the autistic in the way our I only care about this I don't care about the rest and and I think that's why it works much better in Iceland because you have all the big view you put into like context of and real ideology and you didn't really do that injured yeah I mean the attempt is that of course to diversify but
then yeah I guess is a process bringing up that expertise I was just wondering for a moment because you could say that yes no it's still true that is much today as it was in the eighties the climate issues and and the future of our basically I'll probably what's the most important uphold this civilization that we put up or not in the next couple of hundred years but at the same time of course our our civil liberties and what kind of democratic systems we live in what happens to our data and who has control of what power structures would I would say would be at the core of the issues the private party or other but it's activists and trying to address that was a very central to the world that we live in today or differently but there is this similarity here
again to the green movement is like that climate change is somewhat like you can actually show some things and then you can discuss is really because of the climate change not the surveillance you don't know anything you don't see it's it's an invisible enemy even as it when it's too late and that's a hard thing to kind of cope with i it's really hard to get attention for that is really and who cares what copyrighted super boring stuff like it's going take forever like stopping this and this and this it's a kind of negative thing as 2 green parties were in the beginning the really negative they just want to stop things that want to change things are like have a positive spin on things which I think is a big problem that an opera so not realizing and it goes for most sectors as well we're really negative I'm super negative uh I'm doing a funds spent on that for myself but it's it's super negative is the author but at the same time you're a deal I mean like
and he's watching you know from of our the yes that might be very negative outlook but you also do stuff to change stuff yeah neglect the instances like lattice such a story wrongly told because people like to speak about the failure flatter and how it's not really been a
success but I think if you look at it from a slightly different perspective I think it's been such a kick off the
different forms of micropayment I know people that most of their wages through the platform but it's also just that the idea that you can conjugate paint content in a different kind of way why do you think it would have the story at a negative light like you know I hate is hitting on flat well I I don't get most of that heat actually I I don't hear that much maybe experience in Germany and Britain burden because it's like our people are
comparing like if you do this either becomes the new Facebook or it's a figure again which is not the kind of thing there's no new answers and for me it was never about making sure that everyone got tens of thousands of years each month it was about an actual change of the story in our it's like who who's the creator and was not about paying the same people as before it's like warrant the commentators on articles getting money for the things they contribute with that and you will not get a lot of money But why is that not creativity wise that's not actually putting something down and so that's what I want to be after and that's why I think flatteries also because it's inviting everyone it's not excluding it's 1 of the few including
platforms to actually solves most of the issues that we've been talking about but then you have the problem that is that Facebook and Google and all of the all the big players on the market they just say no we don't want to hear we wanna make money ourselves on our platform going to do our own thing not an open up so that
you don't have the possibility of competing because of the ecosystem being monopolized by a few companies began as to say I have come from another panel as speaking the 16 year olds that their view the Internet having clinical is growing up in a world where they know nothing but but also having grown up in a world where they know nothing much parts and the smart phones that they use that their applications that they use which at all commercial applications and thinking about open source technology does exist in the
universe and thinking about data security and protection also sharing of content outside of these commercial platforms also doesn't exist very much an it that is the face of the Internet today there we failed
miserably on helping them to get to a point where the where actually they have a much better life and a
much better outlook on what's going happen in the future not even the don't even think about what the future it's it's it's like it's like this and i'm imitating them like I'm going 15 year old I'm only I give up on other stuff like we're 15 year olds we don't have the possibility of changing this is the world that's how it is yeah that's orders and I mean how do you see it day I mean of we all know of course the internet has become centralized being ruled by these big corporations and and of course
there's still and other side of the free and open Internet but it seems to be shrinking and it was it seems to be like grass out of our hands and in many ways is a lost cause it is a lost cause the how that's a that's a it's pretty tough not but I'm almost like I'm always been a real as some people say pessimist I would I'm even in the but optimistic when estates source cause has so how that because that feels better to
say our but but seriously I like this thing we're doing is like we're still prolog that we stop actor was still probabilistic so bumpy the bond all of these things but the like 10 of them already passed when I said this almost like we had cheated on all these things that just like a new name is going to Paris and we're happy if we can stop parts of it but we lost the fight like we're you know where is our rights were only limiting things all the time we don't have like our new rights Finland an exception to this actually made of the human rights to have access to the internet so when there's people that want to filter the Internet that can those laws common European Union can be implemented if initial because it goes against the Finnish human rights to by having a positive change giving you so you don't have this problem of cycles the negative things that you have to stop all the time they really bad at this so now it's too late we can't stop all of the things coming
we this is been stopped the things that already came so we can go back on that but then when we do this is all too late like CV and now like go become farmers and not doing this anymore that's also really happens that what's next I think that's the
thing you know but but also this you can do we 2 things with this the year you become like go like a former whatever you which is a good thing and but then you can also like you're not gonna believe this but I didn't have to when I was a kid because of modern midgets my brother was really into it so I didn't get as far 1 of the things you learn it's also my from the necessary is telling me that also in I Keitel is what you learn is like when someone tries to punch you you should use kind of their movement against you to make them fall over so you don't use your own strength use like that the strength of the of the person so I'm going with the flow also forgot surveillance and can have the most amount of surveillance in the world this has to go the other way around like you have to follow them around so that so much information they can't find anything so you have to play with their rules and fuck them all with their own rules how do you think that's 1 of figuring out OK but I'm
starting out 2030 that's when it's going to start some figuring out what you have been given next 15 year lost because they're gonna get a lot of k m and why is picking up again in 15 years why is that a good time frames using the this MM XXX that
that that 2030 is also could that what is not happen no within those next 15
years to make sure that we can pick up again in 2030 well I like there's so many things happening there you can even grasp all the like we have a huge collapse in people's jobs we don't lose so many jobs we have a discussion about how
to make sure that people have something to do with the days and you know we're not gonna have taxi drivers were not can have bus service not got people working supermarkets we don't have real life problems that have nothing to do with the kind of the text the Texan just like that the catalyst of this and the surveillance is not going to be such a big problem for most of the people it's comical be a problem for the people that trying to change things you shouldn't try to change things because then you don't have a problem right and so there's going to be so much things are happening and I think there will be some sort of collapse or some sort of backlash and I think is gonna happen like maybe 10 15 years I'm hoping it and and then that's when you actually could kind of make go Swingle back and the next 15 years of then spend the time doing what
OK that it less money thing because everything is optimum I'm a pranksters or but they like that and all that the nice and and you can also do a TV show a TV show but activism but that's a pretty I mean that seems a
there's still some hope that you're doing it Initial by machos along with vectors and also wrote a sitcom when I was in prison yeah I mean like
I know this is very and people on think them real where this is a really good sitcom comics as
if that can be like this and interval man and
that that people want to buy it and make it so I don't know maybe it's really good you wanna talk about
that experience I was recently has that on
his narrow Islander and being in prison they did that can even imagine really what that must have been like while it was weird coming in and the 1st thing I have to do like sign an autograph for the guy working at the prison for gets up and then people started calling me Jesus because I was there for their
sins and all so there was a lot of things that would not like normal uh which is typical in mice treated in my life it's like I don't have a lot of normal things going on in my life and I tend to like maybe find that or something did you think about to like structure that those 6 months
to make that time constant certainly I read a lot of stuff like I read a lot of books of and I complained a lot about the human rights violations of the Swedish
government which they were real upset about that's why a lot of people got fired because I had a big amount and they have an and I try to use kind of the time I had to do some actual change within the prison system and in which I did a little bit is on but I realize there's so many problems in society but it's so much to fix and looking back on it now how would you say
that impacted on you as a person and the way open in the future have act honestly it did impact me that much not get to the spot that I feeling break out but I really know how to
kill people with a knife I also know how to smuggle cocaine and how to not do it that's kind of what you learn in prison had you not to it are so what a friend of mine he smuggled 7 kilos of cocaine cross the border turnout was only 37 grams you got screwed over he was happy only 7 years in prison instead of 25 30 so he took me a lot of In can the k factor transpire in touch with people from that time did you mean official that he's like the relation fundamental
imprison Seoul KR this is all
I get an e-mail every now and then uh when they have like a day off or something but uh yeah I don't I don't I present yeah you can go you know you can have the that is something know it's in most things in the world but this A-B by don't want to be in contact with some other people like I'm really upset about what happened to them like there's a guy they want a person like 40 times from not having license recap what is like 2 million euros in costs for his driver's license missing has really is it it is interesting have I mean it yeah him enough people and his
and because they got caught in the public transportation without the ticket which is an insane and so many ways yeah and full before you
just mentioned and the imaging TV series yeah activism or you will go to something actually like good and that's what vital TV series about activism and what is the idea behind allies
that was like this thing that we're trying to do is like a dirty jobs activism edition so I'm gonna go to different actors groups doing different things not just tech activism on and then work with them for like a week
to film and complain about things that are wrong and learn something that they're doing that until like people going to restaurants in an ideal not when you restaurant rights you're going to go molecular radio campaign right so that it could that yeah were like you should do this and this and you should do you know I have lots of ideas and there's a lot of things I want to make people realize like what's going on in
so the rainforest what's going on with like the rights bound all all of these things which are really awesome smuggling information in an hour of north Korea seems like something everyone to do our so that's kind of the things I wanna show on the the for the people who are not from like the the internet like older generations for people that don't care about actors and
kind of education that it's fun to see and might actually people isn't activism and
kind of you know if you look at it with the 1 who's next this what is activism on the 1 hand and people are being criminalized the ends and that's the neuron writers normally that's a sign of doing something good 2nd on the other hand love professionalizing of which means that it's basically turning into an obvious job and and and and may be changing in nature of you know why like people see that as a career rather than ability which which 1 of those 2 I targeting input the theory is well I I obviously the guys that are
crazy enough to like go across borders and a chopper something that's the thing I'm interested in like that's also the best kind of TV to to watch you don't wanna see people that are like changing papers so like on an office and so I'm more definitely want to show that more aggressive people or more like 0 people there are out there are because I tend to find it more interesting but then you know there is there a space with all the guys as well I wouldn't really call activists like people they're going to politics Pixar and your logical beliefs we need them we really we really do but uh we need kind of many people who have a multitude of like an ecosystem of so a lot of people call themselves activists when they're like and so entrepreneur doing this social entrepreneurship which I hate so fucking much on the ideas itself much like it like that
are almost here yesterday talking about
basically why he's doing in this thing in the without venture capital because he is part of the system and he's taking money which means that he he doesn't really have so much to be all over the world you I don't drink alcohol I k then that's just me thing
I know you know are pleased to have no but I think that if you if you take money there's there's always strings attached so I'm impressed by the people who don't take that on long but if you do kind of a start up and
you have like um money from a venture capitalist company very the the kind of human side if you want to help those guys as well because you're working together so you have a focus of trying to do your thing plus their thing so they're happy and at the same time they could also come in this for the things you're doing if you're too far away from what they want to have like someone controls the that's that's the attention to the interests of capital yeah I might
itself and I'm not a fan of the times the charge fresh if the 2 different reasons and 1 being that I I would wish we live in a world where all companies would consider themselves social as well because they are part of the society and should be an adamant to that and I also is increasingly see the trend that and especially you know like governments or don't organizations are like IEEE
social entrepreneurship because it's being used to replace services that should be inherently offered by public institutions and government to citizens way outsourcing and social services
basically that the it it goes hand in hand with the trend of capitalism like basically euro
You're making people think that they can be an entrepreneur and they don't have to be employed which makes the unions useless and it's going to words super capitalist society by the storytelling of social entrepreneurship will change the world we rule revolutionized by having this new plastic thing again you know it's not going to revolutionize anything like the words are so useless now that the meaning of the word revolution like it's not there anymore and this is the same thing goes for the social entrepreneurship thing it's it's it's a pointless password and and so fed up with it yeah so am that a quick look
about the time there was going to leave a little bit of time for wanted to questions from the audience been getting this man something on the overweighting of me the the and a of uptake living 2 questions might do in the daytime over our identity on any questions from other people in the heater he's giving a show of hands and max will come the microphone raise your hand so note that owing to non-residents 3 1 member of any questions please the question of the open you want it would take but money and
1 over here here 2 people do shuts 1st you
and then you why did you start to develop Pamela's embedded the 150 thousand dollars of find crowdfunding money go
so uh we stopped him as well for those who don't know where we started doing in and kind of competitive to what's up after the stone and revelations
and we worked on that for 2 years I think before we close down and that's where the money went to salaries for people and so the call will be released what's what has been created realize like we cannot competes on with only 150 thousand dollars was not enough to actually compete with what's up getting port for 22 billion dollars it's a little bit different that's kind of the you have to compete with ah it was kind of field projects but at least we tried and and and that's kind of what's not going on otherwise in the world is a lot of people demand change but they don't do a lot and I've tried to actually do stuff sometimes you fail and that's fine and I think it's good to have the courage to try and fail rather than to not China and he was getting another reading random applause that we look forward to seeing on TV and if not then a lot more than think
Gesetz <Physik>
Negative Zahl
Vorzeichen <Mathematik>
Gruppe <Mathematik>
Analytische Fortsetzung
Metropolitan area network
Kategorie <Mathematik>
Güte der Anpassung
Kontextbezogenes System
Generator <Informatik>
Dienst <Informatik>
Rechter Winkel
Ordnung <Mathematik>
Lesen <Datenverarbeitung>
Selbst organisierendes System
Automatische Handlungsplanung
Fächer <Mathematik>
Reelle Zahl
Deforestation <Informatik>
Inhalt <Mathematik>
Open Source
Offene Menge
Wort <Informatik>
Prozess <Physik>
Natürliche Zahl
Formale Sprache
Familie <Mathematik>
Kartesische Koordinaten
Arbeit <Physik>
Prozess <Informatik>
Figurierte Zahl
Physikalischer Effekt
Ideal <Mathematik>
Arithmetisches Mittel
Twitter <Softwareplattform>
Projektive Ebene
Web Site
Zellularer Automat
Physikalische Theorie
Data Mining
Bildgebendes Verfahren
Leistung <Physik>
Fundamentalsatz der Algebra
Physikalisches System
Dreiecksfreier Graph
Bus <Informatik>
Innerer Automorphismus


Formale Metadaten

Titel Fireside Chat: Peter Sunde
Serientitel re:publica 2015
Teil 29
Anzahl der Teile 177
Autor Sunde, Peter
Bastion, Geraldine de
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/31885
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2015
Sprache Englisch
Produktionsort Berlin

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract Peter Sunde in Conversation with Geraldine de Bastion on the Future of the Net.

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