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Finding a European way on internet governance

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so think you're much um so just a few words from me since we're at we have a relatively short time and a huge topic um so
um as you said that I'm the editor of the Internet Policy Review for those who don't know it it's uh an online publication in a journal uh that is uh it's a bit of an experiment in the sense that it's it offers a hybrid format it's as much an academic publication as it is a journalistic 1 and we're trying to explore Internet governance themes and but also other Internet policies and through that journal uh it's a journal that is European in scope so work specifically looking at Internet policy in Europe and but we're also um uh you were also looking at Internet policy outside of Europe but specifically with a focus on different European countries and the EU level um also I'm just another information on the journal we've been launched here at the people because we have a very establish relationship with people began 2 years ago we started but last year we also presented a new partner create which is a research consortium based in the UK so they've hopped on on board last year and this year uh we have a new partner that came also uh to uh to support the Internet Policy Review which is nice to to do dissolve seals that the community all based in Paris um so that's it for of the official terms introduction on the internet post review um for the panel with under the and the as a uh a senior researcher at the moment Institute for Internet and Society here in Berlin uh and with under there we discussed it to to establish you know to have a debate on Internet governance but from a very European perspective to have people were very experienced in the Brussels arena but also will have some understanding of the national level to actually make this discussion as specific as possible and so we came up came up with this and um panel idea and I'll just give them the microphone to Andrea thank you thank you for a few so thank you run thanks for Bobby give to because such an interesting topic like finding new and then when I saw the topic is said while finding you receive finding European Internet governance is see whether of the Europe stands in all these the Internet go on as the bay so thanks for being here apparently everybody are wondering where Europe European all this debate everybody cares so much about that in the just a few words about the Internet governance and not want to uh spend much time on that but it didn't go said today what we mean we that is just that they're in older discussions around norms so uh
and and technical decisions and negotiations happening at about it in Internet how to make a interest of a better place for somebody or a place for little for the private sector has a different take on that and today we are going to see whether we should care about that and so why Europe should take should should care about it tolerance and the role that you can play with In we don't actually see you it's might be fine but the image of the light announces so if you have questions for the next hour just
raise your hand and I've tried to see you at can promise passing mother help to to to to keep this this panel as much interaction interactive as possible so today we are going to discuss all of these with the red and McDonnell from uh access in senior manager at us as much as much as in their working at this you can act in dealing with all the Internet governance agenda uh led by the DG Connect from the Commission and the media under salt former at
member of the European Parliament from the party party so the 1st question the big question here is why should we actually Carrington occurrence and why Europe should actually care about Internet
governance and what Europe is actually doing with that and of course is the questions that that was too much that of course he knows what's happening in Europe and was Europe's then with that much of the a good afternoon everyone 1st of all I would like to thank you for invitation to this
conference as a representative of the public authorities so too great to be finally on a conference when I don't need to words you so it's
absolutely fabulous at I'm very happy that we are having a decent panel right now has said that there are many developments concerning Internet governance precisely happening right now without entering into the detail as basically at Internet is governed by some kind it's a governed by a distributed 2 bytes in a distributed nature . friends as different decision-making bodies concerning different Internet policies but there is 1 critical function at the front curently by organization of estates called icon which is responsible for the coordination of certain key functions for almost the last 20 years to be oversight was performed by the was government which as you can imagine was a point of controversy and 1 year ago the uh was government decided as to where in announcer uh history called uh news that the uh oversight of of I can and so will they enough functions would be moved to the multi-stakeholder community at curently we are entering into a very important part of a discussion on how exactly to do it how to ensure that those critical functions uh on the Internet can be overseen by a prince you put in principle and technical community ends how to ensure that public policy objectives can be also ensure to the internet this translates our position that the government should not be involved in day-to-day functioning Covington at these would even tied into the private community however a government should have the possibility to uh and then the tool will address public policy issues if there are concrete problems like for instance consumer protection as a you would believe
that we have a very strong role to play in those discussions we are somewhere between of the US and the developing countries between US which used to perform an oversight which still outperforms actually and developing countries where arch which are actually calling more and more for actually a change of Internet governance modal and tool introduce stronger governmental control which we would never support so that's why we are trying to play a role of how what we call an owners broker and to say that but during the Internet governance model is actually good functioning internet is everywhere it's absolutely great but there are things that needs to be addressed and we need to talk we the different stakeholders to see how 2 with uh implement those uh those changes last but look to the east what they wanted to work mentioned that we have uh whom sorry it on the
internet governance precisely as the our right now so many uh even discussions on the Internet governance 1 of the challenge to address is the inclusiveness of the processes which are extremely difficult and it's uh it's a challenge for different stakeholders to follow all the all meeting at etc. so 1 of our uh elements of the strategy to improve Internet governance is precisely to ensure the inclusiveness we have 1 of the ideas how to ensure it and that's why I would like to is invited to participate in this project it's a project for a global Internet policy Observatory so it's a project for automatic platform which would collected data from the Internet about Internet policies and presented in a way that can be understood by different stakeholders it that uh the platform water Visualizer Visualizer information this kind of thing we've recently said that has set up a website to invite people to uh send us comments at the reserve and there was a Twitter account we've got to uh webinars and there's gonna be a physical meeting during purity so we would strongly invite you to participate in this project and tell us what area needs as the project is supposed to develop something concrete for a for you so that's the main over and thanks leisure just too narrow a bit down the focus concerning because I'm sure that many people are still not clear about Internet governance and they but actually Carol about mass surveillance this kind of issues when we so we when we enter into discussion about the Internet and you might rights for example in what the Commission is how the Commission is dealing with that is interested in the news stories you which way touching the out Geibel can be
useful for that let's say if it's a difficult question it's a it's a it's a very difficult question because we are doing quite many things and issue uh let to me for instance site of the guy that's the freedom of expression
that uh have been prepared to buy the ideas we the input from the Commission uh last year and basically we provide some kind of tool kit for different stakeholders in particular our delegations but also for other people and to ensure that the human rights may be protected to online we have different projects like freezes dipole so that it can enhance the level of debate on those issues and I can continue but I think so like main 1 of the main things that we are going was
a medium and inter and we can do this what's the parliament of an individual human DG Connect is a commission by the Parliament of course has its own agenda what's your perception of how you're and especially in the former parliament how you feel about that so while was in the European
Parliament within the past maybe 3 or 4 major solutions on Internet governance will be largely supported the multi-stakeholder model and possibly the European Parliament sometimes is that yeah I can school or elements know random stuff like that but I think the primary purpose of the parliament is actually to make long and loss effect stuff loss effect acknowledges loss effect economies and loss affect the way in which companies can operate if that that 1 of the biggest problems for Internet governance is in fact there's a disconnect between what the law of the conditions that the loss create and the technologies that are being developed as a consequence thereof I'm sure that assume use to anyone in this room that you know all of the mobile phone operator infrastructure in Europe is essentially developed to allow lawfully intercepted by police authorities which can be used this has been discussed at least over the
last years and Sicilian revelations that also a political decisions it's not like these technical standards were made by engineers that in the and right and you know discussions came to the came to the conclusion that we need to build in vulnerabilities in mobile phone operator infrastructure no a political decision forced them to make that design flaw similarly an intermediary liability is leading a lot of the developments of Internet infrastructure today and it's not being dealt with by by the status and is not being dealt with by the Commission I mean you arguing is if this is a consumer rights policy issues like basically the only type of legal sphere that we would want to impose some internet infrastructures consumer rights that's the place where governments being the
most concern which is not true we have the entire copyright debate which is now beginning in Europe there's no single legislation that's been more influential on what the Internet infrastructure dust than copyright legislation the same thing with like trademark registrations in Europe increasingly Nat Tate legislation or like you know with different types of media restrictions or have the Delphi case that at the European Court of Human Rights which also impose liability for what people say and comments on say your blob and and so it if I could choose the Europe and maybe the European Parliament as well would be focusing more of their attention Internet governance fears it's actually how how politics of effects technologies and how it affects markets how do we ensure that politicians do not avoid responsibility for Internet governance impact that they actually are having and how do we stop the technical community from saying that route to politics were just meeting standards because very often standards and politics are exactly the same thing and standards are being made to live up to the policy COLT that have been expressed by by the Parliament when the parliament thought it was doing something else but what do you think that the the
Commission for example what they should do better or what they do well they should 1 of things that the European Commission could immediately start doing when it comes to copyright enforcement is to listen to the overwhelming amount of responses to the copyright consultation that said that the intermediary liability should be restricted rather than taking this too hard to the European Commission published today I was informed the document where they call for the exact opposite namely a copyright enforcement
obligations on intermediaries that will force them to develop platforms that control the users even though the consultation the Commission themselves made had the largest amount of public participation and any similar concentration has ever happen if you wanna have a global Internet policy observatory where you invite people to come and expressed in different points of views they did so in the consultation on copyright already but every policy action that the European Commission takes outside of the immediate you know bureaucratic details of who gets to go to i can meetings but who in this room cares about this action who gets to go to I can things nobody has to people here 3 but you know like could have that is the and ambition of the Internet policy things like if it that's the only type of input you're having I think you're that the Commission is really failing to understand what concerns the public there were 7 thousand private persons that brought to the Commission expressing concerns 1 intermediary liability and the
effects it has on the Internet infrastructure development if you wanna start something constructive and Internet governance start of listening to those people who already tried to make themselves heard rather than set up you know a Twitter account and if margin you phone well
fiction whether you think of others but since the you see so many of people and you that many of the uh 4 4 0 4 EUR
holding opinion uh listen 1st of all what I would say is that uh what to what you say it's a it's a it's the everything that is going to be right now it would you think those things will be discussed in Brussels we are now having to discussion only about according to my understanding of a very limited part of Internet governance but on the other hand I fully agree View technical standards they do matter they might have public policy implications as it uh but that's the
that's the the the broader picture not now of the of the discussion of the digital single market that will have in Brussels and of course of the parliament will play a vital role in this process so this is the form right now where those things should be decided and we are waiting for the active involvement of the Parliament to reuse of communicating boring technical example that's exactly from you know the bottom of the technical management of Internet governance you could imagine I overheard that some ID number allocation of authority in the world was developing a means of revoking IP address ranges from people who have been awarded IP address ranges and apparently the reason that they they developed this is purely technical it's like a technical concerned they want a method of ensuring that people who are members of the society numbering allocation bodies that fees but if if you were say a copyright holder looking to impose intermediary liability on somebody would you not ensure that IP address ranges were revoked from Internet service providers who do not ensure to the outermost that any user or customer of said internet service provider adheres to the obligations of the copyright law are and doesn't that force Internet service providers to procure technologies that allow them to monitor very exactly what all of the users are doing all the time and isn't that a direct consequence that isn't that exactly what is going to happen when this technical development is
is ruled out and it's under the present legislative framework of copyright and if the Commission wanted to protect freedom of the Internet
would they not want to ensure that that didn't happen that nite to be clear I don't think that he's responsible for setting the major policy lines of the Commission's so it might look technically be his fault that the Commission has bad bad policies but I think what it the Commission and the Parliament that that kind of that they miss the forest for all the trees and also there's like an entire regions of influence that they're having that they're just flat-out ignoring and saying that no sorry we don't have this influence to solve my
responsibility you were and this is actually a different field and that's unconstructive that people in this room can be helpful in reminding legislators that when they exercise power it has consequences I think that would be a very useful lesson to learn for a lot of people in Brussels but probably in other places as well then the in the Commission is just the machine and that's what we are discussing here whether there is a big machine is able to kind of take lead don't contributes use it to the brother Internet governance debate and the Reagan whether you must have taken all this discussion they think that having I think that kind to expand on Emilia's point about Internet governance is that it's difficult to
actually you know what in fact it means is governance a series of conferences is a discussion about Internet policy is it an international discussion is a regional is about technical management and I think the point that really was getting to is that these discussions cannot ignore what happens on an international level and on the EU
level that lost all matters and a lot of this is that standard-setting and having the inner governance idea at its very essence is about setting standards and for us from access point of view which were the civil society organizations and he's the potential of the EU as a coalition of 28 states to set these kinds of standards but those standards will only be valid if what they're doing with the what the preaching the bride in these international and 4 s on the practice at home and and a lot of current topics I about Internet governance actually happening in the EU right now so cyber security privacy data protection net neutrality copyright and IT there are all the legislations on the EU level going on right now that are not going so super well at the moment and that is in part due to you on a lot not only that the Commission but a lot of the Council and and so maybe I can give a little bit of background about access so you can understand where I'm coming from an axis is an international organization that defends digital rights so where a policy team where tech team and advocacy team and we have offices all around the world i the EU policy manager I've been in Brussels have for the past 5 years in Europe for 7 and then I come from Canada so I have a kind of interesting point of view I'm on the EU and the EU project In that I'm defending EU citizens rights and fighting for the Digital Single Market and no I'm not technically European but this much of it happens and and so but 1 of the principal reasons why access has an interest in being in Brussels and why I'm human rights lobbyists and when working in this brussels bubble is because the EU has this fantastic capability to set great standards especially on human rights something that is unique to the EU is the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union which means that every single person in the EU has a fundamental right to privacy and data protection to free speech to free up the association and these rights are legally binding on EU legislation yeah at the same time this massive body is passing a whole bunch of new legislation to address technology as well as updating it so there is currently in the pipes as a data protection reform package that has not yet been passed and a directive on as cybersecurity there is a potential for but was a proposal on net neutrality others have concen the market as well as a proposal tend remain inside in the EU and and and now which will start soon is a massive overhaul of copyright framework and so there's 2 challenges about Internet governance that I think is reflected inside of the EU in the Brussels bubble but then also which reflects in Internet governance and I
think that's a legitimacy ends legitimacy in the sense that have the European Commission and the EU system basically the 3 institutions the European Parliament the Commission and the Council and represent these 28 member states
and yet the Member States are often the ones that are fighting against the commission so 1 of the things that's holding up their form of data protection and privacy for the past half years is the Council and so in the end when when when you think about it frankly it's a little bit frustrating because as the Council it's the the representatives of the member states that puts the Commission in charge that said hey let's come together let's let's joint economically politically and socially and yet this is the same body that's trying to undermine its progress on EU issues and so that from from my point of view becomes very frustrating because what we're trying to do is passed you know human rights friendly legislation to ensure that people have more privacy more control over their information that mentality exists and that telcos don't get control of the Internet and yet at the same you that put that body in power that are blocking progress and so that becomes an issue and the other issue of
legitimacy that is reflected in Internet governance international for eye on legitimacy is that you have to practice what you preach so since the Snowden disclosures I it's been very difficult for Member
States and the EU to talk about censorship and surveillance in China and Iran because they have no nothing to
stand on In in 2013 when the revelations 1st broke I remember thinking and perhaps in hindsight naively that we would hear you know Member
States that we have to say no annotated this this is horrible and then this would give the political momentum in order to get better privacy in order to get these issues and past and yet no Member States said anything and of course we knew about the 5 I so there's the UK but then there's more disclosures that France was spying on Spain and Greece and Germany is spying on France and that Denmark and others are working with the 5 eyes and then is not justified rise but if the 5 eyes and friends and this is a really really big problem for legitimacy because these countries cannot talk about human rights and freedoms and privacy if they're spying on their own citizens all the time outside of the rule book and so I think that's 1 of the biggest
challenges for Internet governance at the moment for the Commission actually hurt for good the EU but actually International thanks a lot the and that and that's observatory and and lead us to use this kind of another hot topic in the
solution of of digital that think of 1 of the major problem of there in Brussels is a additional legitimacy and no internal legitimacy old saying among who actually just Walt in the sense that is pretty unknown to most of people 3 of the parliament of the decay the
commission that we have to consider that the Council and the case of that entirely was like example when the parliament achieved we agreed on on a load of concerning if you try to them wanted to conceal from tonsils and and say no women we just was signed we like this go back to the Parliament and then people wondering what's going on why this happens and that in some of the level is legitimacy concerning the does Europe the European Commission has that enough legitimacy from new Member States was really play the ball in
the in the discussion in which well you can imagine that I will advocate that we have a legitimacy to discuss you like as if you like to use additional you Commission with achievement uh well we are outside going as an institution we have never did to connect the European Commission and on certain occasions depending on the treaties we can represent the European Union when there is a position that is agreed and actually we are in a comfortable situation that an Internet governance we have a series of documents where basically different institutions institutions agreed on the concrete ideas and Internet governance and many already mentioned that you're European Parliament is very active and we had at the beginning of this year in the resolution of the in 1 of the IGF which actually the resolution was about Internet governance that landscaping general but only about uh we have a set of Council Conclusions so this is a formal document of the Member States uh which is uh set out to also the position of how Member States see how Internet governance landscapes should look like uh they are pretty decay that they also even as the possibility to was sent the consistent messages on Internet governance and the Commission has already started the discussion on Internet governance in its Communication on Internet policy and governance he was already a ago and we see that most of the things that we propose in this communication was actually taken a by the parliament or by the Council so we have relatively few feature on on
this and it may be a reaction concerning the unity among the Member States which is was the 2nd question what you think How especially the parliament which the following suppose represents the way I mean if you think of legitimacy of the European Union of
a multi-layered problem like 1 of them is that what is the legitimacy of the different institutions give to each other like a just a council actually consider the Commission legitimate does the parliament consider the Council legitimate was come like is considering who instead of Brussels and but you know in my post parliamentary phase of life but that I'm back to my Member State but there's also the question actually legitimacy of the EU Institutions with respect to the citizens which is not particularly high have most municipalities or even Member States inside the Member States act as if the European Union absolutely doesn't matter at all I don't for a fact the Swedish government has they wanted to the gender and they on their own things and now the so what is it like the World Summit on Information Society lead up in the General Assembly for a chamber of the United Nations where Sweden is apparently also very active on doing stuff even though the Commission couldn't be because it doesn't have the type of representation of the General Assembly have so and the the the diligent like the European Union and coming back to also look like Reagan says that that the
problem is the European Union and its Member States on of loyalty to each other and it struck me very often when I was in the Parliament and the Member States are that they get to kindergarten children that actually all of them hate each other they don't wanna cooperate at all they wanna back stab each other inspiring each other's companies and you know do all of these really childish things that are counterproductive and there's no kind of unifying force between them but no kind of over arching story that makes these entities come together and say no actually we are united in this thing warning that thing what we want to achieve this thing and part of the reason why I'm so strict on this like Internet governance is affected by a whole bunch of legislation is that I believe or I want to believe that that the European
Commission could provide this narrative for cooperation by the Member States could consider themselves part of like a unique global project maybe in the mid to late breaking envisages for the European Union that's say um the Member States could like set aside on these petty squabbles and understand that they're part of something as bigger and better than themselves and where the member states could also projectors this feeling on to their citizens in a way that they're not currently doing and stop acting disloyally to each other as soon as they have the opportunity to do so elsewhere outside where the Commission descend and where where the Commission can't reach um long as the Commission is able to find this narrative that they can place these kindergarten member states in and I I really don't see like it would have negative consequences for the European Union as a whole regardless if you talk about policy or or Internet governance or whatever it is that you're talking about but
especially in the field of Internet governance it will also have negative consequences if the Member States and primary modus operandi like backstabbing the commission or other member states and so that's a challenge perhaps for some form of political leaders in the Commission to process and make something of my EAT it's interesting would what you mentioned and of course the cooperation within the European Union is not not easy there are many challenges related not only to the fact that the entire of architecture is very difficult but I don't want to bore you even I don't think we discover pretty
complicated it's the issue of competence whole does what exactly and what the European Union is exactly entitled to build and she right into the Treaties easy sometimes a nightmare and the challenge but there are areas where we have difficulties but also I would like to point out that there are yes when there is a huge degree of consistency for instance so we are having a debate right now we the Member States on the World Summit on the Information Society which will end up d sharing be meeting clean United Nations there is a huge opportunity related to these processes related to the fact that we may focusing on the issue of ICT in development there is a huge risk that developing countries would use this opportunity to say Internet goes to the International Telecommunications Union and we basically tell into well we may moving to next to United Nations system which we would not like to see and here you see with Member States we've already had 1st discussions their preparations going for the uh uh concrete uh um guidelines or some kind of order instrument for our diplomats Anthony by New York and you see that Member States to actually agree we can cooperate to even despite the fact that sometimes there's a question of the details of question of
competence uh we manage actually who I think will be met and will be able to pass a very strong common message uh on uh in in all of the relevant fora yeah right and another in US summing up sentences so the big station how you feel involved in this in this process do you think that the unit you can the commission to think that the Commission should be the doctor to do that and then the brain to foster discussed this is all the magic water that you should not that Gordon's which is will tistical this approach I know it seems to me the that of the 1st and only on grounds of openness to actually about to so the young men so in this city yet and and watch and have that that word I'm I think I'm allergic to it and then some here because 1 of the problems and this is a really big you know buzz words especially in an engine occurrence community is this concept of multi-stakeholders some that decisions have to be participatory they have to be open they have to
include all sorts of different relevant stakeholders not only companies protect you know and technical community civil society which is a really great thing and it's a great idea and but it's very rarely used beyond the buzz buzzword concept and and I think this again happens in the Internet governance and forms but also in the European Commission itself and so while there may sometimes be an political will or sometimes it's just you're checking off a box that is a multi-stakeholder yes do I know what that means no and so on so I think I mean from our quantity of civil societies when you it's and there is political well but we need much more substance on on what exactly like consensus base have policy-making means white participatory policy-making mean and so 1 of the issues that are in the of all is that there is very few as civil society there's few digital rights organizations and so axis is there in European digital rights and there are a number of other digital rights organizations uh throughout the EU but the problem is that very little funding and a lot of these organizations are operating on a volunteer basis so most of them have like other real person jobs that they need lawyers they're doing something else and they do this activism on side so if you take them the check approach to its multi-stakeholders and where the Commission says OK we're going to make a something that the European Commission does frequently is talk about self-regulation so platforms need to do something about something to help society so let's convene a multi-stakeholder discussion about what the
role of of intermediaries is in Indian coal responsible for for content online whether taste feature terrorism or saving children along these lines and
so what they do is they are clearly not stakeholder which means we will open it up to anyone who can come and we're going to hold it in Brussels and it will be for 2 full days and we can offer funding
for anyone and so what happened there you have a bunch of
empty seats that civil society can are normally not aware of and and cannot maybe
afford to to comes to leave their jobs and to come to Brussels for 2 full days to talk about something that they're not really clear what purposes are the outcome but who does definitely the corporate sector is there in full force and then you also have another like more gray layer of the corporate sector which is astroturfing organizations which are sometimes associations which can can be considered civil society in the Commission's view and or industry associations or or NGO that appear to be civil society but are not in fact and so then you have a situation where the checkbox gets it take for new multi-stakeholder would actually means is corporate and government and that's 1 of the biggest issues and I think around around this inclusivity issues that the way to solve this would be to actually force governments and and the community to really unpack what exactly they mean when they use
this M word out maybe come up with a new 1 because I'm really sick have but but also to do to adequately define it and I think in 94 million it's getting slightly better like that when Dow has anyone heard of an and L 1 person OK so if you don't you and here on this is that neither 1 of like them there in in some most low that's a progressive uh Internet governance like inclusive multi-stakeholder events and and the outcome document is pretty good you know it it actually defined what multi-stakeholder ISM it's it's transparent accountable and participatory it recognizes that you know there are different needs in different resources for where the different parts but in the end it didn't really kind of work like that because there was a multi-stakeholder group that included all sorts of different organizations including civil society in as and but then in the final moments there was a special uh I don't know what it was in public an executive group that like I did the final changes in 2 weeks and then sent another go and so uh and that included you know Commissioner representatives and our friends at Telefonica and and others and so again I just think it's work it seems like we're moving in the right direction but we really need to make sure that governments are not just using his words check like do you the thing that had to do to address some of you should I cannot agree more this thing is that the multi-stakeholder is used to march and needs to be defined and there we need concrete and concrete actions behind these uh these uh water but we also need those kind of actions from different stakeholders not only from Governments because we are trying to do something I'm not saying that we are doing perfect things but you have to take into account we provide a lot of amount of money to Internet Governance Forum Secretariat from which uh participants from developing countries uh can get travel grants there are all the Member States of EU were uh at promoting the friendly initiatives so I think we are as you say moving commitment direction but I think it's also all the stakeholders they have to work uh uh also contribute to the feasible direction OK thanks it's a uniform and so I think the problem is that democracy is actually kind of thought out the problem
having the stakeholders in this that this this entire idea that we elect people that angle to vote and then they can be held responsible for whatever it was that they did this is actually a kind of well thought out system this is where civil society as happy with multi-stakeholders of like in the we the and the Council of Europe and other places it's places where actually had funding to participate and have an influence which presently don't have them in Brussels and in places where fatalism isn't working life here I'm inclined to put a bit in the Internet Governance Forum and there you it forms of this bad category because they end up spending a lot of time talking about how to ensure participation and then all of the decisions and updating made somewhere else outside of these forums were set up to discuss and decisions but so that the biggest advantage of having a parliament and when the bias in favor of the parliament not because of the the parliament is some corrupted by this institution is that whenever I voted on a lot of it was actually definitely need that did that anyone who want to hold me
responsible for whatever it was that I voted for or against or anything that I proposed could very definitely do that and then I think even in a process like that would be out the mean I'm I'm used to people who they're like to hold them accountable for whatever they said because I happen to you know had exchanged e-mails with
these people were see them on the participants this but but in practice this data then that when be all foreign because I wasn't there and is kind of this homogeneity heterogenous law diet it's difficult for me to understand sort of went into the and the document and I think this is an inherent flaw of the way that we're trying to have run the Internet meant was in I think much said during the lunch break that there's like 350
videoconferencing hours now all these bureaucratic details on how to set up a multi-stakeholder government and that multi-stakeholder Internet governance institutions and was the fact 17 thousand e-mails this this cannot be accountable regardless of how you look at it it doesn't matter how inclusive those made invests tolerance is too much that no
more and and the parliament for all of its flaws and for all of the mumbo-jumbo that gets sent there on a regular basis at least you can kind of keep up with what they're saying there's no 17 thousand e-mails and which is this kind of theoretically possible to to follow what they're doing and it's a great advantage of parliamentary democracy and by I have become a very big supporter of
such systems also thanks and so we
just discussed briefly about some a is because we want to say the of talk talk about some of the civil this approach the stuff that 15 years that we keep talking about disabled is I hope that we understand how this supposed to be set and we can finally focus not on the process but on the actual outcome of of these and then of course this debate and which is more technical maybe it's more difficult due to focus except the technical aspects of Internet governance and I think it's very much needed that was what we really need to look for the forward for in we just briefly to conclude and then the the the water the floor which of the nests
uh yeah fast 1st coming uh in that line so he issues that need to be discussed in the Commission is the local and get us conclude about what's coming next month we really
brief many challenges please this
is this is the our proposed regulation that was tabled last September an issue it was called itself on market regulation had a whole bunch of unrelated things and like spectrum consumer rights neutrality ending roaming and now it has been whittled down into the very basic elementary things which is only net neutrality and kind of sort of ending roaming not really ending roaming I saw the Digital Single Market Strategy today and it says something like moving towards reducing costs related to remain so I guess the 1st thing be higher and I think what we've been discussing about and the the lack of leadership we need EU leadership and I think this is something that has to come from the Member State level but also has to come from the Commission and speaking in the Digital Single Market strategy we need much more in addition gumption and Roman do it get net neutrality and this yeah and so these this proposal that this close election very final stage is in the trialogue which is when the 3 European
institutions tried to come to some sort of compromise and the parliament voted really strong and favorable version of net neutrality things known which includes a binding definition and jelly doesn't have any loopholes and but the Commission and the Council seem to have a different understanding of of men neutrality and this is 1 of the struggles and so that would be my my main thing and the other thing is to push through the Data Protection perform which has been waiting and waiting waiting for the past 3 years now and apparently the Council will come to some sort of position on it in early June and then
that will also go into the trialogue and so those of you I guess the prior is that need to to be with the and then you can download Internet governance and privacy intervention abroad and drug very briefly that like college I'd like to do all this and next month uh I would mention 2 things 1st of all these was successful uh successful transition of the oversight of the Internet functions to be multistakeholder community but hopefully will see this yeah let's
see and secondly I can only repeat what American cities in the implementation of the developed uh single markets strategy of the shearer to where applied already to you uh to to to what you said for instance about roaming just remind it's actually the Commission has already proposed at level is for instance roaming completely and unfortunately our Member States did not necessarily agree to that so where that's why I mean the the Digital Single Market is right now in
the state as we have experience of very difficult discussions also under the protection yeah the media and the new parliament how users movies can you hear any thoughts about the perception about how you Parliament is whether these issues are at the
center of the agenda of the new parliament the issues that they've just faced enormous hold that the parliament has absolutely no choice other than to discuss whatever the Commission
puts before it to the parliament is extreme about saying known to the Commission and discusses whatever Bush at the Commission produces added to induce obesity and enthusiasm over the next 5 years as they have in the past thanks to the
so Museum of pretty overview about what's going to happen so now questions that please is somebody with a thank you so that you I
can think of a visible and you might proposing new buzzwords good to do sure sigh this equilibrium I think we need to new connecting the adults here but the more the more seriously to but very very very often I find myself in a situation that you described that for example of the people a government or or policy makers more or less know what the decision should be on the system certain policies issues but they still want the induced to take blow for them so they organize a meeting and the you know corporate comes in and they start and there's a blow-by-blow and overseas and used to not have that much of that much resources to go for to to all that meeting right and this is this is something that I also find very disturbing but to the the moon connect the representative but just in case I have some follow-up questions do you have a Twitter account and you do have a Twitter account and would be better for me to reach out to you via e-mail or Twitter if I have a question which is both OK so the OK so that's that's in the context of my next question the question is but I can that the centralization is you know all well and good and evil but I feel that there a few you must be the problem of secondary centralization of the Internet and the uh the Twitter account of the global Internet policy Observatory is a good example here I mean I don't have a Twitter account so I cannot fully take part in the discussion of apart and even though it's organized by my representatives in a way right which is which is disturbing and my question is about those of the Commission's see the problem of of of private service is becoming basically public infrastructure that is not in any way be accessible to people that do not agree to the Terms of Service of certain companies that that the Commission is just started the huge sector
inquiry into electronic commerce services and these platforms and if they're at nite sector inquiries by the European Commission DG I'm sorry for speaking we have here is you should know that DG competition in the past and they make sector inquiries in extremely good like the farmer sectors to sector pharmaceutical sector inquiry from 2009 was extremely good in everything except the 20 last pages where they could to be found problems with the proposal to fix them which could be a response with e-commerce sector
but but keep your eyes on that task and at DG competition what what they're doing and Comp competition law in Europe generally where it's not terribly so you might find yourself positively surprised but does I can I can also
work out that that's actually competition always considered to 1 of the very core competences of the European Commission so that's a very powerful instrument and you see already weaving you Commissioner having investigation against a ball that I think that the traditions established by my former also Nelly Cruz causal uh had the investigation and decision that basically says Microsoft i think that those the tradition will continue right now that the thank you for the discussion of system multi-stakeholders which I've also not a big fan of the sheet with you and set about various problems connected with it and I would like this is just 1 of the weight comes to Europe I do
see a big difference when we talk about non democratic countries but when we took about countries that these we see as Democratic we need to make more sense to to depart from this ideal inviting citizens to the table and directly and to really rely on the prosodic structures from each might not seem so nice correct modern whatever cyber but still it protects more the principles of representativeness and accountability so even if we people get in this room who travel to discover my not related idea so much because we benefit from direct access I would be more and more and more progressive citizen to come back to democratic principle of representativeness and rely on the structures that exist in Member States and do not invite citizens in different to different tunnels
at the question the but was it was sort of a hand is suggestion to the European Commission and flow that question due to all of you who feel it affected the tip of the potential impact of such thank it's a it's a you know the interest what you say because uh on the 1 hand I fully believe you are you really think that those kind of uh uh discussions are absolutely needed on the other hand
there is a reason that we end up with what we've just discussed even in the overhaul of hundreds of meetings where basically people are getting lost sight you you you proposal is interesting it's just a question of how to how to strike a balance and that's so that's really people can participate in discussions have an impact without actually being completely lost in the actual processes I think that there's a few
things that the Commission to consider in order to address this issue and in 1 and uh there's a explaining before some of these multi-stakeholder dialogs of self-regulation dialogs they need to have those seats open water have civil society participate in order to to bring legitimacy but there should be a little bit more to the legitimacy process and 1 with a simple thing would be to remove the emphasis away from in-person meetings and to not require her to travel in order to enhance it for 1 entire business there 2 days and and the other thing would be to be inclusive from the very beginning so to explain you know what you want and and what you want and on would actually value add and civil society have because the other added challenges when you do get a seat at that table sometimes you don't actually have influence and so were often like in a position where it's like OK so should we go to this meeting then our name as the name will be on it and it will seem as if we have endorsed this process and have given input into it when we were just ignored or we were barely part of the discussion and so this is like another level of the of the challenge
and so we you know million mention some of the some of civil societies favorite multi-stakeholder some institutions and there's the Council of Europe and OECD and what they have is like a task force you know they have they always city has has
a specific the see section the specific uh group that is the voice of civil society and this is more integrated into the process and so I think just formalizing a little bit more than just opening up and seeing who comes out would be would be a step in the right direction OK since we've run out of time this will be the last question OK and I'm so sorry
because of the question that I want to react with an example to the and for the other questions and reaction of of the balance that we need to find between civil society input and going back to Parliament and I want to use the example of France in different ways yesterday the French Parliament voted for the very criticized the lawsuit onto also surveillance of small with only 86 members of Parliament opposing it and 400 something in favor of it even though there was a huge outcry in civil society and several expert audience and the French digital generation to the European Commission will all are against this in the French that a Protection Authority and if these important players do not influence to parliament I think it is a good thing to have ways for civil society to still gives the input and then if we have to analyze it should make it maybe even accountable on this the other examples from which it likes to do things that go with and state institutions and they have these consonants itinerary enumerate community in a way it's a state institution that has the surveys and asks for a for society input and then aggregated and published reports and I think this is a good see afterward so I don't have the information on the experience of what is done with it and what what are the results but in I think it's at least a good idea to through she certain wage on civil society
input but and the the direction right so on the question of public participation I sincerely recommend to everyone to go to the log of purely monsters and read his heart criticism of Commission organized charts is by far 1 of the best and most humoristic at criticisms of how the Commission is trying to to open itself up to broader called for the community confined burn monsters things like B R a y monster adopt blogspot B or something like this and it's it's only global global platform but only by a monster can also be found on the right but this is a blog posts and it's just very very good this problem is regardless of what kind of mechanisms to make from other stakeholders will be invited to
meetings they think that the fundamental problem faced by the Commission is actually political leadership that complete access and and this is a big problem with the Commission is unable to build this I come back to the narrative that helps Member States come together the same thing but like transmitting because they should be legalistically that kind introverted the almost as if they're the only sovereign in the world that has the right to dominate the others and then the Commission is defined as leadership and narrative that goes beyond that and if the Commission had such a narrative and such a leadership I'm sure that the Commission would spontaneously come up come out of listening to civil society because there's no way that the Commission could have leadership and just ignore got itself you know interested parties because in fact it wouldn't be leadership and so this is this is the principal problem and if the Commission can't solve that it will lose legitimacy and the Member States and ultimately European citizens but it's not a problem that will be able to solve in this panel unfortunately I could
just as it's I think it's also a uh what needs to be distinguished e to the legitimacy of the European Commission and the legitimacy of the entire European structure because what you're saying there are things that you're trying to do like bromine and basically our Member States say so well it's much more complicated the the the the issue like sometimes the EU is its own worst enemy and really like this weird circle and a half hour or
my fancy would be to to tell you the Member States you in are you at Oregon and do this we have indirect before going to do it then must make it back and if not then maybe we should think about an exit strategy for the but that all but I haven't been thinking this electron and so
so that's about a sorry for people who have questions so too because we can't talk informally here in
the court over so thank so families rated mention million thanks a lot Mr. whether we managed to really found European 1 hour here in Republic but is we we we we learn something about things happening in Brussels and for sure we gonna things happening in the next months as well so thanks everybody yeah
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel Finding a European way on internet governance
Serientitel re:publica 2015
Teil 143
Anzahl der Teile 177
Autor Dubois, Frederic
Calderaro, Andrea
Andersdotter, Amelia
Tomaszewski, Maciej
MacDonald, Raegan
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/31882
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2015
Sprache Englisch
Produktionsort Berlin

Inhaltliche Metadaten

Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract The European Union puts a pronounced emphasis on internet governance in its “digital agenda”. As a result, the European parliament, the European Commission and other institutions are increasingly seen as an emerging actor in this policy field. The question of whether a consistent and unitary European internet governance agenda is possible, remains. The panel scrutinises the role of the EU in international negotiations over internet governance, with an emphasis on two issues: cyber security and, data protection/privacy.

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