Exploring Openness in Geospatial Education

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Exploring Openness in Geospatial Education
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Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo)
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Portland, Oregon, United States of America

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This panel discussion will explore efforts to embed openness into geospatial education, including courses on open geospatial solutions as well as innovative teaching methods that help expand the audience who can engage with open geospatial systems such as MOOCs and open courseware.Panelists include Robert Cheetham (Azavea), Sara Safavi (RackSpace), Nuala Cowan (George Washington University), and Calvin Metcalf (AppGeo).
Keywords education certification openness
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Open source State of matter Software developer Multiplication sign Mass Event horizon Perspective (visual) Public key certificate Computer programming Information technology consulting Data mining Programmer (hardware) Universe (mathematics) Formal grammar Data conversion Whiteboard Local ring Social class
Group action Building Code Multiplication sign System administrator 1 (number) Water vapor Open set Mereology Dimensional analysis Computer programming Medical imaging Different (Kate Ryan album) Core dump Data conversion God Social class Enterprise architecture Mapping Sound effect Bit Category of being Quicksort Fundamental theorem of algebra Directed graph Geometry Game controller Sequel Real number Letterpress printing Gene cluster Student's t-test Twitter Frequency Goodness of fit String (computer science) Energy level Utility software Projective plane Database Division (mathematics) Cartesian coordinate system Word Computer animation Software Personal digital assistant Query language Network topology Universe (mathematics) Finite-state machine Object (grammar) Table (information)
Group action Open source Multiplication sign Decision theory Range (statistics) Open set Student's t-test Mass Mereology Public key certificate Dimensional analysis Number Web 2.0 Expected value Goodness of fit Different (Kate Ryan album) Core dump Computer hardware Data conversion Condition number Area Mapping Software developer Projective plane Electronic mailing list Bit Set (mathematics) Line (geometry) Cartesian coordinate system Degree (graph theory) Word Integrated development environment Software Personal digital assistant Compact Cassette Universe (mathematics) Computer science Quicksort Figurate number Pressure E-learning
Gateway (telecommunications) Group action Context awareness Multiplication sign Range (statistics) Water vapor Open set Data analysis Mereology Disk read-and-write head Perspective (visual) Computer programming Dimensional analysis Usability Web 2.0 Programmer (hardware) Different (Kate Ryan album) Computer configuration Adventure game Scripting language Area Boss Corporation Mapping Software developer Staff (military) Bit Lattice (order) Connected space Geomatics Type theory Data management Process (computing) Angle Telecommunication Self-organization Summierbarkeit Right angle Quicksort Resultant E-learning Web page Mobile app Vapor barrier Open source Wage labour Variety (linguistics) Real number Student's t-test Modulare Programmierung Web browser Element (mathematics) Number Causality Term (mathematics) Computer hardware Design of experiments User interface Addition Standard deviation Scaling (geometry) Inheritance (object-oriented programming) Projective plane Interactive television Mathematical analysis Database Volume (thermodynamics) Limit (category theory) Faculty (division) Software Visualization (computer graphics) Personal digital assistant Universe (mathematics) Statement (computer science) Video game
Axiom of choice Gateway (telecommunications) Sensitivity analysis Mashup <Internet> Group action Context awareness Presentation of a group Density functional theory Execution unit Open set Shape (magazine) Data analysis Disk read-and-write head Perspective (visual) Computer programming Dimensional analysis Neuroinformatik Expected value Estimator Roundness (object) Hypermedia Different (Kate Ryan album) Computer configuration Single-precision floating-point format Core dump Negative number Videoconferencing Damping Office suite Partial derivative Physical system Social class God Programming paradigm Mapping Channel capacity Gamma function Block (periodic table) Electronic mailing list Shared memory Sound effect Arithmetic mean Data management Digital photography Process (computing) Angle Telecommunication Order (biology) File viewer Quicksort Spacetime Arc (geometry) Point (geometry) Open source Letterpress printing Similarity (geometry) Online help Student's t-test Streaming media Event horizon Code Product (business) Element (mathematics) Latent heat Internet forum Term (mathematics) Business model Energy level Data structure Lie group Computing platform Metropolitan area network Form (programming) Information Prisoner's dilemma Content (media) Expert system Set (mathematics) Cartesian coordinate system Vector potential Cross-site scripting Word Software Personal digital assistant Network topology Universe (mathematics) Video game Beta function Code Multiplication sign Orientation (vector space) Direction (geometry) 1 (number) Materialization (paranormal) Propositional formula Mereology Proper map Web 2.0 Programmer (hardware) Mathematics Bit rate Entropie <Informationstheorie> Endliche Modelltheorie Area Email File format Feedback Mountain pass Variable (mathematics) Type theory output Self-organization Right angle Freeware Ocean current Laptop Dataflow Service (economics) Vapor barrier Divisor Real number Graph coloring Field (computer science) Theory Power (physics) Population density Collineation String (computer science) Software testing Task (computing) Addition Dependent and independent variables Hazard (2005 film) Projective plane Interactive television Analytic set Denial-of-service attack Database Voting Kernel (computing) Hybrid computer File archiver Formal grammar Buffer overflow
so in her in an hour and in that common but you're in the right place I promise you on so this is iterative geospatial education panel of and I and specifically to organize this up because of my own personal interest in the sort of G especially geospatial education and where where should be going nowhere and where it is on and all that good stuff and he was kind enough to oblige
I will let the other presenters introduced themselves but entity is the director of geospatially education they get a right and an assistant professor at Penn State University who has I believe the largest online online and geospatial education program problem the world we also done the uh the was inch what was the Cold intro to geospatial milk will maps and geospatial that that the big moved so it was sort of making its way around the geospatial world last year and then you do began in March so it be great if you're not yet we don't need that if anyone's interested in us and in this way so I am also proud to call Anthony of friends with a gradual the which is why I was able to us somehow can be broken into this I take it that black male voters of inverse problem the other way around so the is it is not yet so anyway with that I will let anybody over and that joy the thanks laughter alar-treated opportunity to have the world's biggest panel room after lunch on the opening day of the conference solely awesome and will really wonderful the covers those basic conversation hopefully right so as the also means that the Robinson and director of Litigation at Penn State images spatial sense and I do a lot of stuff to direct our curriculum design I wanna go without through our set of panelists that fried combine here to maybe be a little bit of slightly 1 orthodox in terms of education panels and ingest geospatial technology and we've got to my left ear immediately is Calvin Metcalfe at about him is Robert Cheatham Sarah staff the annual calendar and I want you to the now to give a very brief statement about themselves their background and why they think I chose them for this panel but Calvin go out of my name's
Calvin Metcalfe our overcome called applied
Geographics come ii think he picked me because he knows somebody my company recommended me I and and I wasn't sure because at that time when ability unorthodox people here as I have no formal training in anything GIS and completely self taught I and events cool stuff with it 0 and give you the evidence and that's why that's perfectly father the best new mines Robert Cheatham and the founder and CEO of a severe uh Anthony found 1 around outside in the book like a might be hungry and I sit on the advisory board for the masses and GIS program and state as well as for the Jew designed and program at Penn State University uh I think those are only some of the relevant things and I also megastructure occasionally universities in the Philadelphia region terror and show the cervantean to add nonsense athlete I'm a developer has suffered developer Alexander programmer with GO have it I am a full-time Ikota and IDA GIS consulting and yes for years I think anything because it is in state certificate programs some years ago so in coming up with read the I do things like Ryan open-source GIS and yet in my hometown which is Austin and do a lot of education workshops local great hymenium is not calendar and I'm faster at George Washington University in thinking GIS therefore maybe past 6 years has recently been integrating a lot of open source and target classes trying to steer away from the proprietary but we to give a good example on the land to the thank you and I'm sure a lot of you in the audience of bringing perspectives from both education as well as the learning side and so at what I'm hoping to get years good conversation going shortly now show you how to do that now the props I've given Palace today are say as much as you like as long as it fits in the 1 sentence so I promise there will not be 20 minutes soliloquies by board by panelists and everybody falling
asleep after lunch somewhere more attractive this as dynamic as possible their microphones right here and I'm expect you guys to use them and since I know a lot of people the audience I will start calling the names of the of people is appearing on accomplishment of so be prepared for that I suspect this will be a problem because of the props will go through today are really you open ended and our as painless with forced to really condense our ideas into something that's and possibly short us it's kind of like Twitter panel yes now would you go right into it you're going to do is go through all of our panelists answers to each question and then I'll start Johnson themes and try to engage you guys Nietzsche's topics and will see out goes from there so the 1st question I oppose the PAL um what are the most important learning objectives for opengeospatial education and I'll start my answer here that is that I think imaging of phone that a learner should be a recognize core dimensions of special problems and she's solutions these problems based utility rather than blind allegiance to the Calvin learn to program the the yeah
python but the common if JavaScript at that period but excellent good book I have an answer to this because Japanese out before I came in here and I had a conversation with someone and so from undermining the early today that learning is about lighting a fire or not feeling about it their talents only answer that learned program because code literacy basic literacy is going to unlock so many tools that you don't have access to now and going to enable you to do so much more than just put FIL I I believe that there is a basic print as basic principles that we teach they shouldn't be software dependent and that's why we started to change how we teach an art class exposes students as many things as possible completely echo that students need to learn how to code something I can't teach them the stuff here great OK so that were all what's the references decoding the and some cases coding being more or less the exclusive thing that you should learn from and I'm interested in this answer because of which our talking about opengeospatial education and so water some of the reasons why I like SLE Calvin you think for geospatial education particular Python this is 1 of most important things so the ones and so that the time that it now your freedom to blow the effect that that I'll cut you off of 2 at the so traditionally GIS has been the place where things this so so-called Brian to me but that you can be a DB admin it has no sequel because you just sort of going through it's the wizards end using various itself defined stop and oftentimes it has been as so over there said that the software dependent and that most of the concepts and most of the action Schule stop you want to be doing with that you're gonna end of doing it In another you're going to be using you wanting to learn how to do it in that software in a way which is going to usually be when went to data and no budget and how might in a string together so I need I should learn how to do it the fundamentals of how and or tree or rejection of or any of that stuff and the way it and went to do that is by dealing with that in python of which there's a huge sort of geospatial 1 so cluster of people that are doing geo programming in Python and using it sort of glued together other programs you know if you are uploading for park or if you just you to invite all right and and then the other there's also the other big sort of clusters and dual doing interesting stuff with Johnson just so no like you said something that resonated lot with me as a education program director myself thinking about and I'm often trying to avoid software training purely that's not what university education really can be so how do you how do you deal with that tension is you you called out there pretty nicely I think and need you more fundamental stuff and at the introductory level we still teach software is when we make it very clear that this is an example of how you can do it and we try to mix up the different ones that we think are accessible at the at an introductory level I'm and then trying to use open division classes more to explore different options and depend on each we just started off of Python passive member or a very small department 58 you don't control and basic applications now with the start project from that so it's a struggle at the introductory level because you can have to learn to walk before you can run so you you kind have to use the old school approach a little bit to kind of get the moving get them running and then you can start to pile on in the new way of doing it what about parts in the audience which which should be the most important learning objectives for for opened opengeospatial education thinking about opening in particulars or anything different about us table come up and cut to I can weigh in on that that you what you think about pre-hoc among different mitosis on subtlety of I know you in the audience that might simply things as some but that's only have all your money is not to a prior work with the general public schools some in the administration of kind where the GS department is an animal the gatekeeper between a lot of things right now will like how data works with our enterprise spatial data words with their also Kennedy Cuba between what a lot of high school kids aggressor learning sink there's no classroom right now as Sara is 0 god you know people from these proprietary companies we know tell me know we this and that that I'm wondering see these kids doing what I learned when I started there and that is data about data real quick and I learned that people were trying to query in enterprise databases like a big enterprise through like our map layer Properties dialog doesn't work so I had to build real data real spatial data and wondering so the kids doing about that before the start before and then level programming but I when doing with that OK that's a great suggestion so it has to be also about the data that we're using I guess what's different about specialty in some respects to write so let's I'm going to keep things moving on a little bit heroes got question out of which is the audiences actually touch somewhere that you just mentioned about having a deal of them were more diverse sensors who you teaching and answer the question I posed here was which audiences will be teaching about phosphor gene particular and my answer is that it should be the young the old everyone in between I just about everyone where a benefit
from learning more about geography might there is a large group of people doing it spatial stuff that don't know it and the people we should be sort of talking you are those doing like game development and doing geography you know on on the same never overlap with anything I ever do even though were doing the exact same thing Robert the beyond their geospatial and phosphor G I think Open Data Open Source open hardware open science in other words the general concept of a shared intellectual commons is at a critical concept for engaged and informed citizens generally so all citizens there so I would say everybody by by about what kind of car parts so sort of building a like we discussed in the last question and new learners people herniated GAS I should be especially targeted by prosody education because I want to be teaching GAS not software with GIS in its name in general the FIL and I agree with all that that is another group that stands out to me our my colleagues other and academics who were very entrenched in the traditional proprietary software has In our geography department there is just to win a half of us that actively using open-source everybody else is in the same way they always did and we a lot of colleagues in other departments like public health and sociology anthropology that we're trying to come work you get into core and to what we're doing and not just the students this semester commas mountains maybe that's good that's great so that it's so the idea of the question right away great was kilometers in common and on but to our of came out a couple conversation the academy in the hallway this morning is an there is a huge and growing population of people doing this sort of thing that aren't in Europe and North America and the more that we can do to reach out to them and and and perhaps also get them when they're young of but if they get them all of on that get them educated on what it is doing well all that I think is the case a huge picture untapped market because some way more commercial and I want to say that there is there is there is a growing number of people out there and I know that and looking at the list of people that tend to attend this conference the most likely the most protective keep the pressure on that were here yes so that 1 my thoughts on that is just wide experience in teaching a massive open online course of so so far in the maps and I teach had more than 75 thousand Romans from over 200 countries and groups we know for sure don't hit anywhere near the diverse range of socioeconomic backgrounds of there were maybe once touted as doing early on hoped to do early on but on toward your point of untapped I was the interest on a lot of people want know how to make insurance that's that's what I teach in the course that's really basic it's sort of not what anybody in this room we need to do you necessarily but it's people that are not in this room on so I'm very interested in that audience figures from our should we the people that we're not talking to already cassettes Verticom saturated that environment uninterested a asking of a kind of Robert 1st here so you run a company and hire people all the time you're thinking about the further development of how do you as a business owner in some of the higher he was areas how do you think about expanding the reach of hostages stuff inside you were work your workforce known I I think we expect uh the folks that we interview or higher tend not be terribly idealogical about anything whether it's open source or commercial proprietary software there so the tools they each come with a set of conditions and are appropriate in different circumstances and that's sort of the expectation that we have and the folks at at come in the door on our and marking key criteria are more along the lines of the our our company really focuses on civic and social impact through our projects and so is someone civically engaged the interest in cultivating community around something and whether that's uh close Saussure open-source software is a teacher case-by-case decision but the other thing we look for in and the folks in universities right like the here this is we're not deploy focused on credentials the particular certificates a degrees that people have we've had an amazing talent incredible softer engineers that have art degrees and political science and all kinds of things as well as people like out of conventional computer science and we've interviewed people have amazing computer science degrees but are not really qualified for work and so were not big on credentials rather we really focused on what kinds of experiences as someone had prior to the coming to us in the key experience we're looking for is have they successfully and faced with and successfully built a complex web based applications I'm not gonna get that in a classroom you my got a classroom the start to give an introduction about how you might do that but you could go to uh a bunch of civic hackathons for a year and gain the same kind of experience
you could do it on your own in year in year department what 2 different ways of swim I get that so often it's around being around mentors or people who were more talented or more dimensions in which tells of more experienced or more skill than yourself and learning and so on until it off of that and I have Sara talk a little bit about something that you do so tell us more about high ladies and how that interacts maybe with this idea of audiences gas so I ran a local chapter I ladies which if you not part of it is this
international umbrella organization for I find women women in Python programming and we do a lot of things like when workshops for people who well in my mind and not which started around like also intermediate technical workshops and stuff like that on so because I run the pilot is often get to force the allotted yes and I on communities and also results and so a lot of what we end of learning is like I teacher workshop on a software package called Jano which is just some weird thing but I added spatial promoters and show them how use due with spatial databases and the map which is still quite some but still making a map so it's sort of like C. E. spatial education they don't like it in part that's that's thing this guy coming out here is there are people from a wide range of backgrounds the need to learn about the stuff and we might need to be a little bit unorthodox with approaching it so that you're drawing in people that new legitimately do and they never otherwise try encounter the stuff from interested in what the sum the audience members might think about this anybody want what might not great at and time and I work in that we left across the street over here and at 1 audience comes to mind management management uh management written and they you consider open open-source solutions bunches of this might not that I guess the crux of it to me is teaching staff investing in staff action understand how things work rather than be looking for turnkey solutions that might show up from from software vendors adjust the value of developing that resource around fast here but 1 thing that i've noticed on my talk to a lot of prospective students at meetings like this about why they might or might I only be part of our program and working adults in most cases and that's when focusing on and what I notice is that there are a large number of employers who will actually pay for continuing education on most of them don't pay very much so it's little bit which is kind of unfortunate but for those who don't have that kind of benefit and I'm actually encouraging people to go and shame their employer about it could go tell them to show your management that their competitors who may hire you away are investing in that kind of educational capital that could be in anything does need to be jackasses open-source for whatever it could be in some other topic that helps you be a better employee but I think you're absolutely right that that's the leadership angle of these organizations which is 1 reason why I want robber here on that side now perspective have to be invested in this maybe robbery cancer a little bit about some of the things you do encourage continue education so we do a number of things uh as you have the tuition and education burst of of uh several thousand dollars a year that people can spend on brings different things could be formal education like taking an online course or it could be on portal universities or it could be going to a conference with when something 1 of the key elements that we look for in each case is if we're in invest in them the questions we ask our Howard what would you gonna get out of this house is gonna adventures official development and how are you going to come back and share what you learned with your colleagues will have a broader audience so a lot of our time of a lot of our policies and programs are aimed at those 2 things how you develop yourself and how you share with 1 of the things we do we have a 10 % program resource item % for professional development or research project or a number of different activities some of which may be taking Coursera causal something like that you actually spend come but up to 10 % time on these kinds of official development activities Raphael of opportunities to right to present and we also run a program for summer of maps and where we uh invite nonprofit organizations to submit projects for data analysis and we can invite students to her and to apply to work on those projects we give them a 5 thousand or fellowship the summer in each and that's gets a fellowship works on 2 nonprofit projects work side-by-side with our staff and as mentors and have a chance to really work on a very high quality professional of projects the which can you right let's move on to the next question I'm really curious about this 1 as spectra be some strong opinions about this being the audience as well i which open technologies help us reach new audiences thing about phosphogen particular and which are still really posing huge barriers which make it hard and my answer for this is that I think that new desktop GIS tools a of the open source or more useful usable than ever for sure but your parents would struggle a lot to make and share a map of the tell the web I'm comma B cutting edge stuff for making maps is not is web maps nobody wants a paper map NMR accept your boss at you work in the government like added on are going but the web is the future said the guy that my
earlier 1 is if you wanted to learn how to make a map you're gonna need to know JavaScript the inuit somewhat Python they list breeding bad job script likely the big there are the big there's a whole long tail of desktop stop which is often they would be my holdings a back its thanks Robert well I'm keying in on open technologies broadly um and we therefore say come on the open data and open source software and open hardware open standards of all expanded the range of audiences reached by geospatial technology and they have all faced or even introduce new barriers including on that large volumes of data that require new techniques for processing enormous disparities in terms of network access and network speeds poor user interface and user experience design the chaotic labor markets lots of changing job requirements the rapid development and then rapid disappearance of technologies and relatively short useful life span on the investments and contacts of knowledge that we have it so this 1 was hard for me didn't 1 7 so I can't that with a blanket statement attached anything that increases connectivity between learners and educators is something that's going to extend your reach and conversely anything that increases barrier to see the adoption or hinders communication is going to be limit growth and we have and I think we need what new audiences new learners I think any sort of software is that they can participate in an end immediately see some sort of a result there's like instant gratification we do not have funds with students of the faculty whoever wants to show all and like there grinning inside of an hour because they know how to do something new and it was that easy they can teach other people to do it so it's kind of like the gateway drugs this whole the industry and in terms of barriers I think again this audience problem might not understand that but all of those of us that are not programmers we see our students incomplete dread of anything that looks like it's OK so I think trying to can demystify that in teaching more accessible way I think that would counter a lot of problems yeah I wanna hear more about Calvin about your thoughts about that you mentioned open technologies helping and being with technology how how realistic is it for water some barriers really mentioning barriers dimensional options HTML CSS and JavaScript oral barriers to learning HTML CSS and John script as they are of these so the best thing about Joseph in the web is that it makes in its app focused development you yeah the hello world is not printing the hello world on the consul cleaning it to a web page you can see see you get this sort of at 1st type of programming that the people they're more visuals very helpful but HTML CSS and John sugar all design by committee is in what and the worst stereotypes about can like camels addition these are like yellow mopeds you know especially similar like the jobs script I love does script but don't script the browser it the eyes are just like very difficult was good that what about maps and spatial analysis like what's so you turn about middle name map was is there anything different about that context of context so everything it is interactive and you have to deal with a wide right it scales and how to deal with them you can't mainly in a kernel of all labels because there's going to be a lot of data a lot of variety of and sort of wider and skills and then you have do the interaction so it's yeah the map usually what I'm making at step for customers the map is user the easy part it's usually the hard partons of being my user interactive this map and how and that this is a whole other dimension that can really make things much harder know what you think about this where water that you mention coding being a real barrier other things about spatial science that are actually still barrier to this I can think a lot of my head you going In idea that I'm just curious because it sounds like a lot of the when hearing it has a lot of areas are really just purely technical there's so what's what's all I can give you like 10 if you like at that the out projections we're
file formats are projections with weird ejection file formats I yes or they which you would you talked about video maybe think that represent representing the Earth and its people still hot that so I'm a cartographer that's what I do mn on and people often struggle with that notion who were outside of this audience maybe some here that that's even an issue to design a map about that's obviously something you can automate and you pointed out much of examples right away where it falls apart so and you try to do that print making a map that looks nice a gigantic challenge around if you've ever seen a lot of governmental partial viewers and their color choices the 8 yeah there this then the to relieve big things that are very in demand to jazz arc just programmers ingest designers you people that have like color sense and styles sense and can make things look pretty Bob very underrepresented in the world right what about those of you the audience where some of the things actually help us reach audiences MIT Open phosphor field in particular and also where some of the things that really cause barriers to exist Scott these unions yeah I got a lot of them I can input I don't think a Maggie calling and geospatial so I just started teaching open source to not have and high school students and is doing workshops and I found it's helpful at all mentioned is having that reaction in the 1st 15 minutes orientalism they're not really interested in so 1 open source tool that I've using his time because it reminds the assessment so this shows up right away but even people see that that Collines assertive freak out know but it's still baby steps you start to understand this is what is the color of the since shape you can turn this on and off user layer the start that spatial awareness and that GIS involved so I see that as 1 of his recent audiences because it it offers nothing being sent 1 and yes I would agree that the code is scary people especially if you wanna get these alliances who In this have problems with their laptops they think they know when I doing wrong here when we have see more things like that would be great so you try my immediate feedback can iterate on the codon you see changes happen immediately which is passed relatively recent and our ability to do that with when mapping especially think I actually do the instant gratification and the technology that helped me come to the open source world was are as well as many other academics in universities that I find that's actually quite the gateway we which is the that yeah so this stats packages that you can put in other things to draw and other science I know someone on campus to that are ability to to plug in the existing analytical packages hopeless reach across academic areas a lot better than before I think Python is doing that these days in many ways that yeah it's being it's the new on in some areas that's pulling in people some guy just really disagree with me that the the 12 go and look at it and you know 6 proper succession so all the technology of as we know is so as I said the post was in island the is like all the will of God data that the web is the need easy that I the assessed that who your of of really worry about the cold you want you hold I mean that is very good the my managers and public school they love they said well I might not have been given locate of the part of the thing that holds a lot of time to see my head and I really like it yes that's all over the nose program you know the data of the signal and stuff and while still making like you know 40 thousand all year is the person going on the program and that's the reason the data analysis and that's what I think if we try to land on a together that is used this really a comment thank you very much the audience there'll I have opinions and everything else I the what are the things is entire up at the instant application which is absolutely true I give it a try to sort of brought community that's that's using these tools outside outside of programming and I think actually the tools for data collection and the creation of a ship and that's says that the universe lets open-source closed-source everything like a battery of membership and what you really want is we want people have had this problem I have had a people companies in like a weird word it's the organization and we're looking to like capture the 1 see you know the patent be the media like do I'm looking at tactics of committee-based group might well at the weekend and on well some yeah so if you could go on this map entropic can kind of there were years standing the medium and it's terrible and the person who doesn't go anywhere because that's the way way beyond where did what they were the ones that like anyone think of photo and have it here now and the vote of the thing and all those individual but we don't we had that happen Boston some of those and it measures the way that there often they're optimized custom created for various purposes anyway sort the full amount for everybody on case so instead it is a gratification creating and finding relevant data as well as I as I notice that a lot especially with naive users coming into something like a move people never maybe things before their expectations about what kind of data are available are incredibly hopeful fact the and and really kind of beautiful and it would be nice to support that for real answers and sorry but there's absolutely no way in hell it's going to happen there was a group came across 1 of the many months on on the Cougars cascading uses of the and that of and it was a hybrid data scientists from such and such organization and 1 of the working point is to village level of geographic data Kenya Uganda and it was like the idea you charmingly naive theory on the variability have you you have to have a small army of data collectors and enormous travel budget the tree article make it yeah common room here yeah I when is the order of the regret sensitive politicians I we hire time in terms of of what used to be hired institutes right so on of trying to find the right students right there so many students that have not just experience there are going to be out of context and it not they had access to the data had access to a platform that we don't use we had access to a lot of things this talk 1st hire students as they constant only 1 and actually certain work that we we are looking for the student the 3 in the middle of the next part that in the can be which amounts assessed this type of stuff like that this is the 1 and we we do the students that were actually you might find because those people like on interview GIS experience on to have additional CSS Python and think in the design we can teach that we can do to the rest of the star in like 10 weeks it's the more common will move on the next 1 that just all of them on the point about that which is made effective teaching people and particularly in developing nations context and so Education outside of formal education and we to talk to me integral part to the use of string matching with the stream Jakarta animated tutorial on how to how to make not to speak not because of density not wanting to read about it is all resources on the Web parties QDA somehow how to use all that as stream of and how to make it out of his eyes in the field of papers on I don't really know much but anyway so we talked to people in this community have to do that and we like we have kind of blocks this we went back a week later and they had not life and they had not the village on a mean physical infrastructure they had not the evacuation network for the old people during the flooding and then asked us why to see on the map and I said because the false symbology for them to use for elderly lady evacuation network and then have this thing up and so then they looked at me included translated said so open 3 not just a database that that kind yeah I right so how do we get our data out there we would just trust you into a powerful country data are yeah you you really need to like let you this maybe get at the sky and then have got like in your office and you know like the powers only on like a few hours to the flooding we're kind of busy this right not to assist people so they can sleep in the mosque where we have the resources to and so that for us as you like where's the tool that allows anyone to go on to OpenStreetMap and 0 I wanna make a map and 3 clicks like Steve Jobs of of the data right and one the data I want to the colors should be read the all 3 send it to my friends often so is less comments are kind of about expertise and either solving it with with your comment is solving it with better technical paradigm and the comet was getting the people capacity to do this stuff because it's not it's not solvable through necessarily Melita technical paradigm and putting words in both your mouth house here but that's my job and I I'm really interested in that I can't because I think both things officially possible within becomes the more I know is that I do I work in a crisis management community and there there are pretty effective means for rallying volunteers on demand to solve problems on where falls apart though is when it comes down to analytical expertise ends were deeper level knowledge that experts generally have a novices can't contributors easily and it strikes me that that's a place where especially the open source community can be really effective is in collecting and rallying and deploying analytical expertise on demand on when it's necessary to create custom symbology because you have all that is running away from a flood event in Uganda where here you have you have a real need for a specialized kind of product it cannot be made generic on system concept I have and I wanna move on to the next want topics here so this 1 may be hopefully will be stir some controversy here on and I'm going to pose the question how can education be open while remaining sustainable and I'm I say that because I I have to still have a business model to work within the university on almost well all you hear Russia independently wealthy have some business model for operating you work in part of of a model that exists already you're you're defining all the time but to be sustainable in some way and my thought on this is that the I think we can do as educators easily share our content for free without hurting our sustainability and individual-level interactions mentoring advising Council is where the value proposition what lies in remains for educators held immediately I I mean you companies pay any money to make maps and that's my stand I don't I've that's a very big bomb that 1 really think much about that can then goes on to do that in the real world non academia and so how do you how would you hope education would be open while still exist some way or maybe education and other it I mean most to the sort of education and that I deal with is more of the documentation and that fast sometimes they really documentation and sometimes it's like a mn of it's like a mystery yet to be detective gets to work on and understood Rendtorff the question of Iraq if we can people they can't code can still right documentation getting those people and documentation is often a good sort of 1st should bite the then get people hooked on into the interested in getting people do so you like you just right to show and it's the curr Roberts 1 sentence I would argue that education we have has been opened has often been open in the past and and that you specifically network capabilities are requiring last redefine how we reach learners and how we have created that sustainable system I don't know what it's going to look like in the future however I believe it's likely that the transformed education ecosystem will have fewer traditional colleges and universities here since they this question answering or making the assumption that sustainable means proper although we can find other ways and that's really the age-old question open source software called the software profitable and 1 factor is that once you have an existing product existing content that's software or a course then the going spend the ongoing cost you're in human eyeballs on the product of man hours so for software that could be like the red-hot Red Hat model bounds model of for support for a course that could be I paid for instruction and rating credits that cost jail itself remains fundamentally open available the your I interpreted this to be an education that in a way of educating that will last for a long time and effort to enter the question as I can see it being very realistic that that this is sustainable as long as people continue to develop the actual software themselves because it's very kind of trying do is known in excited about it but we got keep that passion and because the 2nd part of the that lot involves a lot of voluntary work and you know this offers will be there for us to use this technique to teach the students the children whatever and also the sharing of materials share that in the workflows that we use the documentation presentations that help the user make because if other instructors can critique myself saying hey that's not like do and that the way I did that we will all have courses for that and that's something that we're starting to right now you and as you the audience come up and ask you questions going in mind and personality us about this country of some opinions and no there's some educators here you have this problem of Aldus reflected you know we've done the open education resources for almost all over 30 classes now for almost a decade and all the new class we build a completely open in terms of the content and there are a lot of angst among some of my colleagues at the university of doing this because it gives away our the thing of value on what's in in the case with us which knowledge as pointed out is that it's actually helped to improve the quality of the material because there a global set of potential eyeballs that see them and people discover us that way all the time so it has not at all heard us to be more open and units work very well for us something like a Moog conveyances that another notch in that there's I actually interact with in that experience I'm offering more of a tort experience their richer and maybe just content by itself and and there again that visibility actually translates to people showing up for our programs various tuition so that's fine as long as that works I'm just curious about future being I'm assuming more on demand on more disaggregated students collaborative each other in forming the groups organically and interested to hear what your perspectives in the audience are about this but little that pick on Sara 1st and say what you to you mention profit being a possible thing yes I would say so we're nonprofit so you were to break even actually that's kind of the main priorities so what would you thoughts about how we should cation of maybe higher educational stick on that should exist in this in the what to good on and those a fossil genes or something different of right I will rephrase restaurant profitable and break-even nonprofit edges that make up yes in general I don't see education current traditional form going away anytime soon so we still need hands-on on instruction instructions instructed in classrooms dealing with students directly but what we have space for worsening growth then is sort of the new model but not necessarily specifically that more like information on demand like Wikipedia sell the bigger like courses on managerial and many wonder learn something the option to do so I keep thinking the software and I have set like there's tons of open-source software and stuff like that of people or something so we know that's not going away right which is more resources so Calvin I I wanted someone like you in this panel because you're a non-traditional in terms of how you're can look at education you don't care about the current structure so what what is something you would like to see the on you mention documentation the important and so there is there's often a high barrier to contribute to open source it's often very frightening scary and by you know most communities that are the Linux kernel from our fairly you know inviting them and are more than happy to they they would love you to make to help them but you just have an estimate of node and that there are have become I did a thing at MIT which was all about getting students to contribute to an open source product and how they have to do it so and that ended up being a lot of you know teaching them this is get it's scary but you can use it and master easily kind of stuff in and that kind of sort on the community is up is the important part and a lot of stuff and getting people to sort of the involve the community and help sustain the community and a lot of when thing that the some people don't often realize that of a lot of the big open source software nobody's volunteering their time on that they didn't pay like Linux there a volunteers but most people are they're being paid in same with but you know no desk core post press on the fact that it's open source and that you can have a volunteer can help do it doesn't mean that people don't do that professionally for money is just that the the software the people on this off on paying them it's the company using it so we are my company B antigens medium whole uh with closer software we rather softer and you pay for it differ is of or we RD wrote while with love open-source stuff it's the and you UPS we write new software the so no wonder you're using OpenStreetMap and teaching so this slightly different angle this question so how is that how that helping you answer curriculum you can you can teach it and immediately without any other prior knowledge is special education you can take the 1st thing you know instead of gold produced through traditional GIS system not in this database that it's like that visual kind of talk and so that it calls the name you can load them into the whole class of the last it's on the back and I think you have to go on line and so I think it's it makes it attractive to read the relevant new and when we back OSN for projects and task we actually have live exclusively as a service to experience so we're always collecting data from partner that we work with the right across from the USA the DFT on the World Bank so it seems collected formation for our partner in a negative sense of responsibility and light of all accounts with L not just degrade the signal as 1 of our partners participants them poppies will die you can this 5 foot but it makes you feel better I know the technical perspective it's probably the simplest thing that will do not class the problem of of the are like the max that in the in the you know the software and then so the all in how you choose to to use of and that dimensions interesting thing here it's kind of a comment about community engagement beyond the inside of the patient that's why I'm hearing out of this is that reaching out to community engagement in various ways is a positive and a Robert a lot of things be corporation to get the business side as well so that's an intriguing thought wonderful some audience input gamma not a NGS personal stuff further and and a couple of things like I find you know watering softer it's just a bunch of doing exactly what will interact with the going mailing lists like it's huge amount of potential and that communication public publicize all that information was discussions and make most see is undergraduate now and on 1 of the things that we use which is great in some ways is think called the access and open discussion board you it was requested major universities in the problem I have is that way those classes closed so like you you know ask you don't go through all these exercises and questions with a bunch of people in my those go a like everyone every undergraduates in question you know yes it's kind of funny that way we can just publicize actors like on asexual question it like that you bring up a really interesting tension that I've wrestled with an educator in both directions and that's what silicon and they teach the 1st outside the 100 thousand forum posts in 5 weeks so people answered every conceivable question the class with every conceivable angle on those questions it is amazing on but I'm actually reluctant to just have that the there is an archive for the next coordinate course because I still want them to discover and talk to each other about topics again so there's to me anyway the like there's a difference between looking up this thing because I don't wanna do it today I need to figure out how the text in that I'm happy with on this map persons are we talking about let's talk about whether or not social media is useful in a mashup for hazards map like I want discovering this'll take place and the 1 thing and I'm not sure that the that the comparable but it does answer a panelist of thoughts about this dilemma heads nodding your rights as an educator you don't want to have to sort of come up with the course from scratch every year and that's the very tough thing is that even if you write a new test every year it's can be very similar stuff and that everybody is the idea that human so if you can look through every single thing that everybody person said the previous course you have lot you know you don't have to do the studying the beta the end of the process of entering those questions on stack overflow you know you learn stuff and if it's just there you never know we learning this time their thoughts about this we're running out of they all have more common to the the audience no more up here since we're coming up on time body of just computers in university but I want to touch on that common were all standing on the shoulders of our process so everything every time we notice that flow so we get that question answered quickly so that we can move on to the next week to to this body of knowledge with holding a lot of knowledge don't think is really helping so I'm sure we may have to produce another cost for some you know better defined questions or you know of asked students different questions whether it's more like question and I think that's the real benefit of making all available instead of so I think that was a that that's a great point I think the distinction I'm seeing is the difference between answers to technical individual questions and discussion about conceptual stuff or critical engagement with the topic so not are I mean is a possible to 2 different things picture of a path that a lot of the the topics up to this point have involved in coding in GI of kind of disparity between 2 I've always felt that communication and is here but I've always felt that you can teach program GIS much easily much more easily than you can go the other way round so the very of programmer comes in and you have to teach them a few things about the GIS realm as opposed to a person with a specific software experience the so that GIS user neutrality coding that encourages people learn but thanks to the I think that's so everyone ongoing challenges here so we're at a time I'm very pleased to say that most people so sentences of some kind and in response to this summer longer than others on a thank god panelist joint today interested you being part of the largest ever panel itself through pack what makes