Keynote by Rogers

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Keynote by Rogers
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morning everybody talking American it the thank you are thank you for that introduction by Sara I was listening to and in other cultures and musical in that as utterly to early and I'm also pretty nervous unventilated take 2nd bond so my name is Marko Rogers and move a little bit but I and my notes I remember what I was city of I'm new science so take back come along with me many of the fun I thank you for having me keynote address Conf 17 I only get those works that by the way the plant stuff I work at a company called clover health and we are building a different kind of health insurance company on its back by technology it's data-driven and our goal is to focus on are members and their health and keeping them on a path of to living well as a way for us to be successful as sentient company which is cool when I hear talk about that today I I I well rails today there are national rails and if promising is that was OK are before I came on bad but still and I had thought about programming really either I have been a manager for like several years now so if I started talking about program should public to now chicory now like which reduction we're redoing we're not engine to talks I that's not happen on what I am here to talk about today is how it feels but to be black intact I am I let them hang for a 2nd so you can adjust I know it's going to happen so don't don't worry right like it will get through this up and in that income Start controversy my my 1st invitation to Terrell's but this talk will be easy for you it'll it'll be hard for me again in a minute take on other the hardness of test OK at conferences before but is my 1st keynote address I am was earlier than that organizers and reached out to me I ask them like interested in me giving a talk well staff and maybe you know uh said what she just said is that we know we really appreciate your voice on Twitter on a blog post the written the scene of my my other talks and they said we want you to come and talk about whatever is important to you time we what we want to share with us alone as other people lake Woody along a talk about it would you want him tugboat friends and what not and a lot of people that I know who were not black they said that they wanted to hear me talk about being black intact like that's the thing and that people want talk about with talking about diversity inclusion a lot 1 time on but we you know we can have to start digging into different axes on this I will talk a lot about being women to I think I think really really is that I I wondered about being black insect very much the it so people so that's what they what they want to hear about I find it should on that a 2nd have enough mass that a hand I'm not that brave ahead of the terms I wrote different talk so I wrote a talk but that I thought was good and my wife that was dead people told me was good but but it was a regular talk it did not pass my bar 1st noteworthy and the keyhole slot said is like ways in which he knows the way then no other activities planned right now I need all the other coming here and here with this person has to say a flat pressure right I and so I ask myself late 1 qualification do I have and you know to come and ask you hundreds of people to come in and listen to me for however long what makes it unique so as and underlying interesting things I think of but only 1 thing really spraying up as unique to me and do this that I have had a pretty good through intact from a 12 + years been pretty successful and I've been black that entire time but where effect where landing has been when only up of that common trade they it's not that not all on and I mean this is real talk today I don't 1 have a rule comes in the about it and we know that are the numbers and Tech are not infer for black people right like companies releasing a stats and a showing like 2 per cent the 1 % African Americans and 0 per cent right but sometimes just like a line and 0 per cent on a pie chart but in some time to get previous like 4 or 5 per cent it's high-fiving you know I mean and perseverate from so long comment that you had the west the all time like hard you do it like you know that were going how how did you make it 9 and I don't know have a question it is the right question will have the same site 191 talk about so I 2 seconds encourage another look at what's the talk a little bit about at least 2 we can solve the amount of time but in wanted to look a little bit about it the arm so you know what I'm going to talk about is how yields to survive as a black person Tech when all the evidence seems to point in fact that's actually hard to do and because for the title of this talk it would be something like survival tips for being black intact and in parentheses I would I would say like if you're Marco rate of I I can only speak for me and if I was trying to speak for like all of blackness they like revoke my membership of a minute don't like and I talked about me but possible will something I the so the weird ago I gave a talk at Alta come I think it was called conforming to and then talk was about so my formative years growing up in how I how I initially found my way toward the korean text but you can find it on in a wedge this check out to on this 1 basically picks up where we left off i which is we with the graduating college and I gotta I had a degree in computer science from Georgia Tech emerging from from Atlanta Georgia when we detect this graph the getting my career started started with free rocky our outwardly you know my my situation upon graduating was was was pretty dismal it 1 a typical Bell right I had no idea what I wanted to do but I was not a stellar student with something were surprised by the online been a long journey to getting the point where but late show up and be good was not a good student and I have lot of prospects right like I didn't having internships wasn't school in I I applied and no no callback no intentions no tech-related clubs lake hadn't found any like open source communities susceptible microfilaria not any that stuff did not have people being damaged or I was just a recent grad and try to find out while black and white our things not looking good right like but I was session around in Atlanta and I was in the comments I know you better to Atlanta was not the place to be searching of for a touch of the best Ilkley's I had ever been in an enacting now and look for jobs in the world was much of a taxi in Atlanta like there is now actually previous seen on but I'll start if you really discouraged I have spent a lot of money on this on this degree me and my family is that and a lot of money on it as when you get a dog right so my 1st arrival to the 1st step that I picked up after surviving as a black person intent was pretty simple I We then no some white people and a higher yen in light of the ruining rightly I you know like when really need is that you can know some people already intact so think about free right so they can like get your foot in the door or whatever right infinite or answer me was a body mind up from school the like I still really different about an economy up he was in the
DC area and he like Morgan displays I can recommend you should come work here so there were doubts about 1 was 1 of the centers of what we think in analogy when the the part where light socket black then I mean I can make right connections and and get the sudden door accept like but we we notice not true that right like if you're paying attention if you've been paying attention this conversation about diversity and you know all that most people already attack greatly most people they make connections with people who are like them right like you we tend to cluster around our racial and the like and ethnic identities are like that's a payments that's why the ratio I think identities when people make connections like people presumably I can make connections with people like me so there is need feeble they were they did not exist and that any any other black students in the College of Computing and the director and have any black professors my entire time there was come on right like bad that I had to reach out to the whoever was around in and try to make some connections I mean I do that right of bad that my best and most of the people around me were were white and so to mean that's what that's what was that's actually how played out like if I went getting wireline and alive evils and goes how would that affect right like that's essentially expected and until we make 1 progress so this diversity problem we should expect people to follow their networks right to to kind of cluster around the racial and ethnic trend but that's going to keep happening nothing wrong with that inherently arm they said that it has some fallout right from realities for people were trying to make it to a different place from where they come from networking for black people in texas really so so what I'm saying to you right now but if you need to make connections to get into of a new black you might have to it's Wessely the exception so that trends of only sticking with here ethnic identity for you don't even get started for you to do anything you have to not be there right you can do something different than what all the statistics are telling you that have and I got lucky right leg but line the without me lately he also was in grad he got a job you know I that good bad in bed with the construction of a new a friend with a guy and he knew a guy on the on the a web shop is DNS and is done and so they put better you know which I have no problem with by the way I like to get that light do it by both strings all strings like getting where you consider I don't have 1 strain that 1 friend who reached out to me I a work out right but I don't know how many people never had any strings we need to do anything because they didn't they weren't able to but whatever trends were keeping them from finding network so the work that for me I and and then I had my my 1st phone interview I think a quick and this 1 is 90 that that important but is funny my 1st phone interview I am a 1st of I'm is honorary was was useless like they had in
the ass like what I was doing school or whatever and I told him I was basically like nothing like built some some pretty absil whatever and then the 1 key question I feeling of the 1 key question any essay that got me a job that that the language used in school was was Java for most things right i and he like his question only like is it also say he said you know a job that include JavaScript's arm and hand Suzuki effort like that animal here will trick question huh but that's how yes isn't very clear jails but there were no I'm and I I knew that those 2 were not the same thing you and I didn't know I don't know a whole lot of light you those 2 were not the same thing in a state of all have done much just good willingly that's not the same thing right here the coaches covering work so and so like like I had gone through so much trouble just trying to give a comment and it's my talk new whatever on and that literally get a job become my body referred me and that I knew the diamond ousted beneficent that might but this will help right leg there's no barrier except for the social ones to reach to me really left like there is no barrier that social ones I have to say I take them a 1st out I am working on a Web consultant shop in the sea and killing at and I don't know how well actually doing when I can be paychecks which from mean was the island criteria for killing it like the I was not an alcove every 2 weeks they would give the money of so I made of a lot of friends but at the same time like and feel have place right like I'm the only black person might seen this is true for a long time they don't bother me necessarily but I can't help but notice right and in some way like have of no this right but blade-like people into a room in the room we like scan the room a the army of black people are in it is that they like and only difference like I do anything bling is 1 you go read atmosphere in the room right I have a lot of node i know at least to be all walking here I get I get t . C where the city to only that by the it I'm which is the atmosphere right so I will 1 day this change they had another 1 person on discovering chloro our names have been changed to protect the innocent called coral on and but by the it is and I mean the if you'll recognize of the list on the anatomy and so our agendal names and coral was similar to me in a lotta ways but here the recent grad they had everything grants are he a CS degree from a decent school you know I and then he was black arms in kcal so no money like the only way that is similar to me but had that's enough right like that was enough of I mean there's no other likely will around late I'll that this crowd at least other we progressed enough to the point where we understand that having another person around who looks like you like that matters right it matters a lot and that's part of why diversity is important seeing yourself reflected around you in people being successful it has a huge impact on whether you are able to be successful right so all of a sudden and this other person that reflect back at you of what was going on if you take nothing else away from this talk but let it be that I let like let it be like hearing from me me but there being like always matters following whatever it is that you're trying to do right by unfounded you and I do the same thing can to but I'm trying to do a while black and that means that the rules might be different they might not be right there are always different but they might be cited like tread carefully and it helps if I see what happened with other people were trying to do this they are also what so you know make all of that tight I'm personally invested in my happens dance is like the all the other data point have a web of my people interact besides me but will not a good of 1 Our Carl did not do also and you let go within 6 months I have been there I 109 Napaloni mimic 6 months and you let go within 6 months of employment on and I remember vividly the reasons that were given by the my sound familiar to some all it wasn't really picking things up fast enough no but the and also rated really have a right attitude crawling our attitude up to this day I don't really know what the right attitude is I cannot really know how fast you have to pick something up for that to be fast enough for you to not be fired but I still don't know and but I'll had the had to put this together with what I was able to observe about Karl for myself I am what I learned is that like Karl was always asking for help right like he was pretty upfront about what he knew and what he did feel comfortable with and where he didn't feel capable of on all weekend came and he's like C sharp indictment what that was aligned with the balls in order with but I shall mostly type at that time are and so he was kind of expected the transition like he was picking up a new language after he was humble enough to ask for help with our eye within 6 months he down so our next Arnold said that that that don't have rel tone has given by for any don't admit they are having a hard time keeping it down and make it make it work thank so people I that tried and you this is not good life advice this is not good good lesson it's in a long time unlearning only the Willis by is not help the other remember right leg the the chips for survival right like I was trying adapt to the environment that I found myself in a having guidance right away without being out of work and a stopping rule of widening drop like flies so power and you know that kind have worked out long head the 1st black engineered that I had ever worked with it to be here on because he improved that he deserved to be there personality would try to learn from that are hard to make sure that I was next I call is not intact anymore as far as I know the best answer some other jobs you not it didn't really recover from that like the and what that does to your competence and that he had find other profession right so relate when 1 down wait you like in 1 of them already up the table I fast forward couple years by matching the well now like I know I know the computers privately so nothing left any question about computers and I know the answers to those questions so legacies let right like I feel free and can about it and like again why am I might do every we here on a at the client's life now this that contract out on as big company they tech company a they get a lot in housing dense but they also like bringing contractors to kind of enhance their internal teams and we work with them a lot dinner time period after lock onto the and were building a web-based RSS reader this like 2007 so like a really awesome projects right sold that's where I got to work with my 2nd black 2nd 1 I've ever met I am yes a lake that's and that's an exaggeration light years into my career intact and I work with exactly true black dose I so you know you can see that like there's not a lot of opportunities from media observe
was supposed to happen here once China like make my way the 2nd I was called Leicester our that of a meaning there from Karl to right but less there scenes comfortable right like Lester will come in Arlington parity like log sometimes we all that would you know how come this close your brain disheveled Mosul down later this this was contractor land really aware button at definitive desk and pipes that I'll be like when teachers light when teachers who was a big deal to overcome where teachers salaries on like colors that my like achieved so left within like he was like he was sarcastic and smart you with people and even people in loss Israeli and people who were like 1 of the product in the graph of all time How many many things kind of right leg we just like the whatever the 1st the you know and of windows and let tell you all this was fascinating to me the fact I had really understand like in my whole career had been about light like how meaningful to be here like I got in I was really lucky lady I'm hostler hard to prove that deserve to be here and he was the guy using like graph were hanging up but he was still respected for all intents and purposes less that somehow managed to achieve the confidence of someone who was black intact but not feeling like they were struggling to survive and I was like why is this magic I need it price I can't do that we get from any that a home so that's a no less a little bit of and this is tough railing and there had to be careful because I was still junior member the team as a contractor rightly get player part of suggest that we can you can look at or doing by guess now the cycle on the left and I are fully in the 1 day they would ask you when writing so comparable corpora so it was a conversation that I had I had all I've only been able to have a vital to be honest right because I was using very few words but he knows it thought about but we were right on this and of a given to dramatize version it's pretty close to this but but you know it was like less there man I had you knew it was I mean walking hearings pulse start late like it's all didn't find out what in that you how you get away with it as I said that off factor and then I will write 1 medium is the his legs I you longing right like it income along the the dramatization right a out the like I and our but it is what it is is like being on a word about it when they know they can do without me show you how some blew my mind again like this is the symbol and I go the what mean like and that people who have this coupling nonchalant common but you can be intact would only those people what I had no idea you could do that while also black things and now I am feeling like everybody everybody's since the beginning of time and told me everyone uses full you have to be like straight thing you gotta be on top the stuff in like you have to be very personable like the all that stuff like you gonna be quite a bit and I are right like that real like what people tell each other down all the time passed down history right skewed beta stuff together then I wintering I got that that's all we hear all the time and then like the plastic take the company was outside a they had something about ahead of time a more about it the and I found out the last abandon for a long time relatives already using these career he had 10 years and is not on a lot of with the same company had paid his dues already was will respect him because he argues that using years proven that he deserved be here I was at this point he like going on now reputation he made of comfortable right In the late were what everyone in the decade a lot you have and like him and 1 of the last there like I really wonder Lester when I grew up time the so minor magnetic survival to came from Leicester was the 1st is a bias that ever gotten from another black person cite news after I started and and at to top in my purse it's only like what it's like and I finally met 1 person that was what was that like what would do I design I can be like the weight of the since they got on is the I work for a long time I used to be like you so you do that and so you can be like excellent How did life that he gave me was always knew better than they expect you to be never let them see a confidence waiver because if you don't believe your words that they wanted right of the otherwise the and this resonate with me in that's exactly with what I had just seen happen the car all right we're not just at the you know like the matched that like right place right like Karl like trying to be honest of them is a on and on and on in their life various masterwork it so this is kind of a big deal right when we when we talk about barriers to diversity and inclusion on a lot of assistance to recognize the pervasiveness of I impostor syndrome right Dulcinea like they don't belong or they're not good enough like no matter what people tell them they they always select an impostor and we need to talk about a couple of people struggle with it's a real pain but that's not my life I'm just 11 tech while black and never felt like I had the luxury of not believing in myself that was just not a bank or like I always had the show up like out pretty bad and everybody else otherwise Tommy go right so the so cial again to examples of people who look like me intact 1 of them was honest and open about the shortcomings and they don't they all do the other 1 is city ever let them see you sweat and he made more money by person I ever met and I all Disney intact I mean like anybody ever right and I will let you like like people if you know a lot more money than all of by far it so it was really the choice for me to try to figure out what emulate you know my today meaning about about impostor syndrome right I have a lot of sympathy for them like I know it's a real pain our blood I'm not telling black people begging comfortable with impostor syndrome is going help because our believe that stick that has not been my experience and so I can like participate in the conversation among a little bit we had a lot like it doesn't work that way for me and a lot of people that I know and UWA again rightly that impress people early and often I otherwise you might not be around long enough to get comfortable you know you know and the kind of you have a contact so forward a few more years arms brothers last or I so I'm pretty confident in my skills at this point I'm leading like big projects like I make a real the money I can tell other people what to do occasionally and they do it right leg was a little weird right I like this because we're home that's about a project for a really
big client their real deep pockets they're pants those big like multiphase suffer project and multiple teen on it different contracting companies participating in it finally Latinos building a web set up so of fancy of features would search and e-commerce and stuff 2 so a building website the other team will building datasets and web services for us to use of so I think ramped up I started interacting with other teams on and another black did show that this was trying I and trials like the paper or 6 the late black there that had come across at this point was like no for years and so on the my career whatever but but I like cited anymore now right leg unlike and 1 possible and every 6 months earned wearing special anymore the so called at home we so blessed like I had a persona now also I was about business you mean like I was I was I was actually kill it might actually does work long hours never ask people for help all that like you would have done Netherlands sweat right only better than what they expect but I was probably just to let people know United period going on but it seems to be serving me well right leg I had been here for years was still here right like could be will end of the year I and I found the like can anyone so hard survived intact while black the the warring our and in the right our not this how was about to come crashing down my those those false on whenever I never found out how Treacy onto the scene but if I was speculating based on the limited data points an outcry say that he had a wife from from college and Mike is because their government of and now wife recall and wanted scene but that would that's very limited dataset so like that you know I'm probably projecting to a certain extent that's all I know about how black people get detectives 1 I and so but you know what I should tell you like was mine Will my relationship to try rank I trade with charter Web services so in this world like me getting my work delivered was directly dependent on him getting his work deliver right like he had that he had to deliver me the web services so right integrate this is like the mid 2004 I like this and then and then I'll add out like we get non charts the waterfall there where like you know dependencies in hearing it was 1st announced 2nd my contract and so so like I had to work with him and I needed him to give me this stuff but then I I'm like tree very much unlike working this hidden hidden move fast enough for me in our house costly waiting on him the now but in hindsight I was missing something about this project but a bunch of other contractors like tracing to understand already on whenever big client with deep pockets it pays and I will rate the right and mean like literally it pays like you hourly you Billingham so like the lottery you take the more money you get around it we don't this projects Diaz like not also OK with me Knowing heads linking him really think that means like in I was telling about time here and I'm find so how are you would that like to add that is that well in you that there was never the can to that set well with me from wanting like my my work ethic is too strong and Indian really not allow it FIL dishonesty like we're stability right but I want to try to build some I will build on whether added working at enactment and as this will be about that the but also he also remember that that that like I mean things don't has the right up and doing better and the more comfortable with it but I'm still trying to survive on and then dependent on the concentration of people that I have also right i deserve to be here because this still does not like it was when the interest when dozens of the waterfront and the try so I world trade by other means you like and as the check thing then very often like he would take days on something I felt should be much easier than what you made out to be his dog again charts man like we work a lot work hard on OSI was done on them recall that I had my dad was that he had his by I've done me to try to step up test and if electric power lazy you know so if the length try it wasn't in a fast enough you know I mean like many other answers so the so we I mean you see was going on your right I got the common that guy the you know you might not like that guy is like a little bit too full of himself of this test undermined the people around him you know like suddenly a 1st let I'm I'm not shabby injured right leg that's 1 get things done you know like and try to be also a new kind of like must our now that not of that the at so I decided I wouldn't talk to somebody about getting things back on track yeah the if bond unfortunate and in the bag guidance like 0 I would so the higher ups and I expressed some concerns about the timeline you know I In contrast specifically but I made it known that did it didn't feel to me like the Web services 1 material fast enough like I had a business jargon down you know like I was on it again and say trade name and all that they knew I thought about I have found so you know I mean this call right like you know trail get like a kick in the pants I will get things rolling out the or and but now right like this the stories about survival so you know if now what and my main recollection of this arm which may also be dramatizes story but I had this conversation on Thursday and by next Tuesday we were informed that trails was no longer on the now when I tell you that leg that's at all the air out of me right leg I don't know how the pluses that like we were a team like women working at a like it is now going like this botany late you know was used on but let's not be right back into reality right I would I would like that to be keenly aware that was the only black there from mild around here 10 and I reminded how quickly they get rid of folks who look often but to drug rats only this time of my fault I remember that at this stage were still blackened that right less than 8 black bears that had ever seen in my career accordingly I 10 had just held won't get fired I have occurred that's what happened when and I knew where the right they probable tree-assignment by like novel picking things up fast enough the the
filling ever Rhianna Sufis projects so pathological you know the end of the being that died nipped in the bud life quickly my my this last tips for surviving intact while blacks me never help them get rid of us never the only reason I'm here enabled like talk to you all today is because I've managed to navigate on the wrong person bad sides were laid I'm honestly make the right the right kind white friends with step up in my put in the works for me you know a or and then is to be just often enough to offset whoever else was trying to undermine the to but the the the awesome distilled lucky if you really lucky I mean like my my confidence is still attack like that I know what I can do I know what I'm capable of but right alongside that this is a healthy respect 1st still how lucky I am to be able to be here on so the hassle fallout the lessons you learn have follow like to this day as village it's extremely difficult for me to get any kind negative feedback 2 other black people it doesn't feel right can do it but that's no like well saying that the there's not enough of us who even get a shot at all for me to be making it harder like 1 step harder at all I can't do it time the sold I give you so as to survival to the bottom of 1 atom of time this of of maybe maybe this talk is not what you expected like even want your and talk about the what and you manage that and talk about quiet discrimination in my progressions and stuff like that some have to analyze those stories that you that's working out of film the but the knowledge of death of more happening so what 1 fact right but what I want to talk about this how it feels to be a black person intact you know the leg that's what I feel like I want people to walk away with his life understanding that you know those few people using down around like there's a lot going off and be here there's a line on all it for the longest time been blacked intact it felt like to be on a tight rope now so like why come out on out there by myself because like most people being getting it started in the show went I wrote was in defense attract I'm offered about myself and concentrating right because like thereby also walking around Ireland and Wales gives you have to walk on a tight rope but I still have to make it to the end at the same time they do or maybe the faster some concentration 10 like Carl behind right Our and that I like I hear him he slips and falls act I can't turn around like I had keep my eyes trained on the rope I'll feel safe yet like you know I don't feel like I have my legs under me so I can do anything about that and and then light elastic comes up and made less running in cycle is light you know is overlap surrounding the value I do laugh unfavorably doing it like you know you can muster and I you know I like every job in and he laid now along the way I don't understand you know already but they fall assignment speed-of-light americium again have sold have been a little better right leg but then like I come up behind trade right on this table Our and I'm like I'm just mean the silicon Dinamo momentum right leg onion hang in there so my from genome a little bit faster yeah and trade likes his long Italian being like them and it's an interim right out of i gotta be at least as far as the rail In his long announcer Lake you now have no ill will buy land Nagin like Galileo and I'm I'm here to play a mother do I know that he loses bouncing he falls I I lose sight tram you don't just me now like I can make that but like latin people drop has basil if you like all time felt that way a long long time is still a now but for a long time as felt life I'll still here like I the show of every day hearing that implements a conference room around that answers right but what everybody around me dropping out the our and those Cabral present I it was the new meaning of this way but late this is a real top greatly I want to have a real conversation with you about what it means for this industry the has such a poor track record like people on those was who are making FIL like were running a gantlet allotted time know way distance b here is the stands in room and go to a lot I that into talking about diversity and inclusion more because I know this is not what it should be like we are I think we all know that this form we on now a should be like and I want her to the world were by people to start getting this terrible right late maybe you can get a comment without knowing library already works there and it should be possible as the thing has when maybe you don't have the the ground running all the time maybe the show up and my as for help and and have people like support you where you grow maybe 1 day will like having a black people that it's OK offered for us the points of some surmise that doing to unwilling to better and like not feel like we might be like killing a career by saying that but that's happen right there should be a thing as possible bad 2 minutes is simple or usable all want is the have enough black people around that it doesn't feel like survival for me to be here right like I want I want this talk in the student because no widely used but this is the thing that was merely but that type away you know a list of stop pushes so hard so we can spend our time energy on something better you know I mean when I was in my time on something better I'm I'm allow rail that something like it will so they get a minute later this can be they found the so I am I am on a wrapper around but just look couple things like this and this and this is reason and wasn't really grown apart but unlike my cousin ILO cousins the disparity College of he's reaching out to me is like I'm when the computer science right and like I know this kids some might right rally cool near the scrap France With these collecting he's like not doing it right and I'm like I out from that are not being heard because of my y y you things which 1 do should be encouraging him my not that walkable here so on what it is like is what I want do what you do right is always knew no way you know bright light in the new everyone knew where you label line a by personnel ever met In right we pick up they do not fit doing so well thank you I made more money than in the way I have ever met just as bad as I was out what he must be serious about it right and so I helping him I like and bring him you run around here finances to California hang out mean little bit so we can talk about it innovative in our in a really Californians by do it right every mouth but Due to figure out how to get them to figure out how to help them to figure out how to get them later right on right daring elaborate and at least 1 friend summary maybe a workout but all that the land I also think so much for having me and let me the get the stuff off my chest today and I'll be hang around rested for free to come chat with me I'm looking to it from means that the and or
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