Digital Diplomacy - Reinventing foreign policy?

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Digital Diplomacy - Reinventing foreign policy?
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Ever since the protests of the "Green Movement" in Iran (2009) and the "Arab Uprising" (2011), Western foreign policy makers realized that a new phenomenon might have the impact of changing their well-known world of diplomacy and international relations: information and communication technology or just ICT. And while the U.S. Department of State launched their respond to this global development already in 2009 -- called 'The 21st century statecraft' -- both, European governments and the European institutions still seem to wonder what we are talking about. But as a matter of fact, Europe's diplomatic services are already facing a new challenge: what is digital diplomacy or digital foreign policy and how should Europe respond to the new digital hemisphere? What are the main issues? What can be new benefits and what are new threats for modern diplomacy? Who is Europe's new digital constituency and to what extent is Europe responsible for the digital world and its users outside Europe? With: 1. Marietje Schaake, D66, European Parliament, 2. Olaf Boehnke, ECFR 3. Dan Meredith, Radio Free Asia 4. Ehsan Norouzi, Deutsche Welle
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and that the thank you very so that the norm norm OK so I yes introduced so that the topic of of this laughter found
here on stage 2 is Digital diplomacy holders the digital world ICT actually impact on foreign policy so we decided not to wear so this year and so uh we're now with promise that all of us all of us actually I have been related or we are related to the boring wall of politics of foreign politics of what we uh yeah I would like to take a chance actually to discuss with you at some point here and ability to introduce the issue which is somehow came out of the 1st set be actually in the course of the green movement and 2009 uprising in Iran saw at that time I used to work for another thing I think you will encode the Aspen Institute and we did the conference program on civil society dialog so and 1 of the country's we focused on was here I was having content with bloggers Internet activists in Iran from 2007 to those not and we made it happen to invite some of these folks over to Germany and to have discussions behind closed doors also what's going on in this colorful mysterious remnants of society where everybody was talking about but nearly nobody actually really a lot of these guys so 1 of the guys actually might use it's onerous an Internet activists from here on the lives of 2009 Germany things changing around the time of the horror for Internet activities that you will tell me about that we have next right to be extremely shot was a member of the European Parliament from the Dutch Liberal Party and she was called all water last year by the WallStreetJournal that's the the most wire politician in Europe all the things that some very interesting trial in the states and unfortunately it she's very unique with that because it's not really a big in the department and so will actually used by the couple of parliamentarians who would have explored what you can do with literature and they usually pressures 1 of the more than once again with this plot so if you talk about the concept of what can you what can classical for policy to with the Internet will social media with ICT in general actually so that 1 has to give credit to all our friends on the other side of the Atlantic the United States State Department was the 1st foreign ministry who came up with a comprehensive approach on a digital diplomacy it's called the 21st century statecraft and so and we're happy to have them with us and who is not here is sort of show state Department employees but 3 he has a lot of internal Washington about inside knowledge to give you some insight that should the so what these guys are about and to and what experiences that you made so far in the work OK so that's the introduction of the letters got worse little
piece of paper so I want to start with Marianne
was on a daily basis and in contact with all these foreign policy guys politicians in general people from the administration of in various countries and I would like to ask you so what is the special thing what makes digital media what makes ICT so important for foreign policy which is normally it's not really considered as somehow linked to the media will personally I think it's very important because the new technologies impact our daily lives and the lives of people across the world in almost every aspect and it has allowed people to break through monopolies that technologies can help enhance human rights such as access to information freedom of expression and press freedom and freedom of assembly and the documentation of human rights violations and sharing them across the world so there's a lot of issues that are there in the human rights field or or another foreign policy has been fields where technologies become more important subject for elements of this but if you look at this field of foreign policy experts traditionally I don't think people in Europe on the whole considering the central importance sampling yet so 1 of my ambitions is to ensure that people have sufficient understanding of how technologies work both in intended enhancing people's opportunities freedoms rights but also in the threat of people face because the other side of this is of course that all across the world we see mass mass censorship as survey and targeted attacks tracking and tracing of activities and the use of GPS signals coming out of our phones to disperse 10 people on the street corner and we all know the examples we hear of people were tortured for their passwords we hear of activists who being presented with transcripts of all of the e-mail and mobile communications are in prison and so the torture for the past wasn't even necessary anymore because with viruses and other technologies an entire private conversations that have been stolen anyway so it's there it's constantly moving field and for all the great stuff that democracy and entails our policy making is slower than technological developments go so we have to be smarter and uh see how we can have adequate policies that guarantee people's human rights but also allow for business opportunities and to flourish in the context of technologies and developments and I think were we're running behind the ball now and it would be my goal to get the thank you very much that I already
mentioned that the user departments may be a bit more ahead of the European and the regard you
can respond unofficial ministries and government actually to these digital development so maybe can you walk through this statecraft approach so what is the State Department doing so what what is also something create example actually so we can so that we can have a better understanding of what digital diplomacy and practice and again I can't speak on behalf of the department I work for a government agency that is independent by 1 C 3 so that the Internet freedom projects in the United States as a whole both have inside and outside that we do perfect and there's a lot of space to better it is an example of a program that not come to my own on the program I work work or is sort of a response to what is the department and other government agencies funding freedom work able to you right and that is to respond very quickly to events as they they happen day-to-day so what they've done is after initially using the rest of all these on for internet freedom are going to be available at a stable partner with which it has diplomatic agenda it has all these other reasons for the decisions that are maybe not in the best interests of everybody within country and how can we bring that many of you make it more agile and enables the use of people that you don't have the ability to apply for 500 thousand for a variety of projects the apartments were on an educational institution or known not for profit that that is will fun and and that's essentially
what my role in this you right now is to go out and find these projects funded through different knowledge OK thank you so is that of the mentioning this so you have been an active member of the didn't award and the remnants of society so you're still your opacity as journalists at the launch of the the the least to what's going on in the city with the neurons all but why do you think that's democratic governments should be active uh in non-democratic arena sexually and support people like bloggers Internet actually try to fight for Internet well as as internet revolution use in our
lives in many aspects it has also empowers people uh in closed societies it it increases the possibilities for participation it improves education and then I think there is a common goal here in the rate of country's under repressive regimes to people are searching for change and and the foreign governments are also um wanting change in this kind of countries like Iran and so on and in the country's under repressive regimes people are really in need of help because because they're facing massive surveillance and censorship and and that that's what the foreign governments tend to that they can help to the communities because they are the sources of change in the today data and this kind of countries and in these in these educated young studies and it way but here on the changes in individual but these days the problem is getting more and more complicated because the the countries who have the the internet freedom under agenda are also or promoting Internet freedom abroad are also trying to or increasingly planning for censorship and surveillance at home so what what really matters here that the important point is that the Internet is this simultaneously helping both sides to put and the the and to and so that the but let's say that the situation and challenges more complicated here but I think we will talk about it later about the challenges that and that is that maybe 1 thing you can have so if you could give a picture so what is there any government doing anything in the digital world so 1st to
the civil society 1st of all I have to say that the
ones having a modulated sophisticated censorship system but but the important point is that this this system would have never
existed without a foreign state well-defined help I mean the you will be able to do that and so what 1 very important point here that is to control this kind of exporting whatever you wanna call it it's that cyber warfare or digital arms or whatever but but this is this is something that is really I mean obstacles things change equal society um and and also Our endangering the lives of people and it should be necessarily about torturing for attaining but but even like brother for example just because of having this type and usually brother of living I may be interrogated or or detected by for some hours and and that is what the what is happening on the ground I mean there a new regime is having 1 of the 1 of the greatest novels and it's all made by by the foreign corporate and whenever they you you go after the war the information is leaked about this kind of secret deals mostly secret deals become and given in the European Parliament is being the in a meeting about Internet and mobile phones impact you want the ontology and they send the soldiers articulated people professional justified as to to say that he has apologize but and we suspend all the cooperation of review on or or or any other country that's serious but the but the problem is that in this facilities this week and to the operating and hence opinion like the centrifuges of uranium dangerous nuclear facilities but nobody actually cares about their interests and you you have experience with apology Sarah unintelligible actually doing this error springtime sections so in 1 of your challenges was actually to secure safe community communication of Al-Jazeera journalists with what they have water so you can tell also be actually how the system in you were you have to do with saying a lot of
stories come fortunately after it has received now of a lot of stories were making it outside of just the trade press random anonymous PiratePad Eutypella journalists that are lost their sources and I know what and that's because a lot of surveillance networks that existed in these countries and a lack of information for journalists working in the field of telling the sources that OK to text units located on it's OK to use when the true is words and all that it has lead to the detention important cases and so we Al-Jazeera 1 of the and very forward-thinking we realize that the early on did you and a lot of mainstream media should have done in-house standards and just talk about it and say like OK they bring on the people that were privacy and security centuries that had background of technology and journalists to really defined in case of what it is that a journalist in the field needs to secure the communication with the source and people using than what we to to 6 you into that the conversation with the editor right because you have a secure conversation with a source that we use in the e-mail that your editor of every single 1 of your sources and unsecure way using unit 20 names in a way that you you did you know that they were looking at so part of part of my goal is to engage with post and not just say OK this is really cool sexy technology that can be originally wanted for governments at of what we do here is about what is actually here so what happened was that you if any of you that everybody is using a regular you know black paraphrase from the 1st part of the new injuries were always make the patient and actually solve the problem will and it also doesn't exist in a vacuum I mean I just came here from Cairo where as we speak so again people are demonstrating against military government and this is not all about
technology it's about people risking their lives and some people in the streets it's the movement of people and in each of for example and pretty encryption is illegal so let's say well willing and NGO or programmers are making these tools and then trying to get to people on the ground the mere possession of these apps tools is 1 illegal and you can also identify your intentions so this is a very thin layer to challenge that we need to I need to address which involves issues of trade which involves the accountability and transparency of our own businesses in our own policy because you mention environment and there's hardly any disagreement about what's going on in here I mean the whole world is pretty much united about the fact that human rights are repressed their but neighboring country of frame and I is a strategic ally of the United States and there's a lot of challenges there when it comes to uh censorship and surveillance and human rights violations and do we actually need or have human rights the the actions or is it strategic objectives the and this is a tension that we we see getting bigger and bigger and and we also see that there is a Department of our governments who were vocal for human rights for example but then there's other departments who have other interests to preserve and these are often aligned even fashion within countries like the United States for European member states or what have you so I think we're only scratching the surface of how these policies can actually be sophisticated based on sufficient knowledge of how things work on the ground and not just good intentions of governments pushing technology firms and to deploy tools and get them to people without knowing how they might impact people on the ground and so I think it is very important that we keep keep looking at the real impact of people in the context of these societies which are changing on a daily basis and that we don't try to address this from simply technological and only in that we keep in mind that over and over again that this is a complex and other people's based issue that we're looking at and what that we're in this for the people and not for the text and this kind of double standards are reported the critical issue and and I think it's really harmful for for the Internet freedom again because I for example you
assist condemning the Internet censorship in the wrong and and actually helping a lot of things that the users on the ground to to find averse to circumvent to bypass the filtering online censorship but but when it comes to buy for example about they don't even talk about the course of your which is 1 of the most serious enemies use of the Internet and the story also surveillance and censorship they don't talk about it which which somehow means that your friend of the our strategic ally and you can be also independently of Internet that and when you're not a friend you you cannot that so does that mean that in the long run I think tangent space is a space of democracy and and also have questions the credibility of this approach but when we're talking about the Internet freedom it's very important event for for the future of the world that is another word uh whether we're talking about that the free world the developed world for the developing countries or countries like the 1 on the repressive regimes and it really matters for the future of the world and and we should avoid this kind of double standard up some of the common will and also this this widely popular notion of speaking about open versus closed societies I think we have
to get beyond that because clearly the tools that are available in closed societies like the wrong come from open societies like our own so I I think it's time for us to the next level of of the analysis of this challenge and really trying to be as a community of people who care about human rights to really start start changing the field in which we work from agenda-setting to action because I've been in in loads of panels and and events where 1st we were all from different angles trying it onto the agenda but it's not really time for the next step we have to break through some of these words which have been used over and over which don't really relate to the situation on the ground the maybe you you you you about it this year this is from votes
oftentimes talking about times more recently mentioned things like documents as being the future work kind of getting around the closed societies circumvention you know for the surveillance of words but that's a problem right because you
have a dark matter that's only accessible to you really need folks in your creating a close communication states it's not accessible to everybody and so y you may get around the surveillance you're not just kind of watching an existing problem further into the internet I suppose as opposed to really addressing which which is how to maintain variance world but talking about credibility
and double standards so is of course an issue which is primarily addressed to the US all sectarian
state originate from the search engine I would say that
you do you have for snow places so it probably thinking it's mostly at the moment actually addressed
actually to the US because 2nd or state their indirectly came up with this internet freedom speech that they In Washington and if you go back to this this previously known explained in the increase little bit silly actually of its there remains very very clear uh sorry the 2nd speech was also it was different actually so because she already received some of these questions so log of all these double standards and it's not really an issue which is just limited to the activities of the the US government in cyberspace it's also of course something which is an issue for the real hardcore analog from policy of the US of whatever the reactions in Washington if if you talk to people in the state Park and all other institutions of course so it sums up whenever you wanna talk about internet freedom in your American about surveillance because of the truth of courses there's surveillance around the surveillance and serious in the surveillance and the and the capabilities of the surveillance network in America are far beyond think surveillance networks of anywhere else and uniting anybody in America try to say that that's not true but it unless they don't know how long I it's just much more passive and so I think the general of the general opinion is the state parts of really really organization right I can talk about it from the outside and inside and kind of talent will but what I hear from the outside which is there is a group of folks that are really trying to to change the way the surveillance and freedom are well I guess the problem surveillance is it's in my personal opinion in America probably still back and then it wouldn't have this ironic
problem where we're trying to support the ability of people outside of our country to get around surveillance networks and there's a lot of same time you know billions of dollars to go toward the surveillance contractors in the United States but you to a certain degree you have passed in talking about political conversations and you can't you can't talk that way when you're in front of Congress or you're trying to allocate more funds for Internet freedom without necessarily producing the
fund going towards the folks that are better not doing what you say it's controversial not wall interception which is that every single 1 of our countries develop the underdeveloped hat surveillance technologies built into in some countries argued could scale back how they use it in some countries what most countries that we need to scale back cover users post this so it's kind of like the non answer thank you but when it comes to credibility though is is 1 of the
notions we really have to challenge is is lawful interception and because there are a number of countries where uninformed policy level on official government level and the government of the United
States are ever used by Member States of already condemned the lack of the rule of law in country a B or C and then we would still allow or we don't even check because that's the reality we don't even have any idea of what kind of technologies are traded with these countries and perhaps technically speaking the tool that these technologies that provide or the kind of kind of service or capacity that these technologies provide would be called lawful interception technology but what is lawful means without the rule of law has nothing in my opinion because if we're officially condemning the lack of the rule of law and then people can challenge the fact that they're being that you know tapped for that they're under surveillance 24 7 and it makes no sense to and I think that we have to align those kinds of balls and those kinds of concepts with how things work out in practice and again here you're mentioning mass surveillance capacity in our own societies which is troubling of course but but who's to say that these are not the same technologies that are traded to country and it's funny because whenever I talk about the EU 2 2 varieties of people and they often remind me that it's such a bureaucracy that there's rules for everything you know how strange or or how a bed bananas can be cucumbers and everything we have rules for almost everything and we don't have any more hardly any rules for the export of technologies and especially when when they can hurt people I mean we have rules when there when they may be applied in nuclear facilities or in water facilities for example so were were completely behind the ball here and it's endangering people's lives and that's why it's so that the correct me if I'm wrong so I know that that there's a little bit better software tools used so it's not actually on legislation of like and since last year on
the you yet will last year for the 1st time after we've pushed very hard there was a reference in the general dual-use technology regulation to human rights to begin with so the concept of dual use the ideas and technologies exist out there which can be used for neutral or good activities and for that and the nuclear engineering tools are are the most prominent issue here so maybe upon which can be used for water water filtering system or a nuclear facility and depends on who goes to so the context is important and and for the 1st time in human rights for mentioned in here and use technologies were also framed in that way but it's a very very superficial and an unsophisticated and a set of rules yet yeah so we have to update this and we're still waiting for the European Commission to come out with the update at the moment we don't even have a person employed in the job that deals with you use that that position and vacant for for a while now so I that were actually running behind the other aspect is that sometimes you'll hear about and what sanctions to countries like Syria to countries like Iran and when we look at the announcement and then the implementation there's a huge gap there so I encourage all of you to look more closely at the difference between the letters of statements so that the text in statements on the letter of the law and the implementation of the line you see a shopping gaps and so group which is more transparency from both the governments and what the any of those technologies that could be used for surveillance could is definitely needed and if you're if you're an actress technology person there's a lot of interesting stuff
going on on transparency that can be done by people that non-government actors to fingerprint what surveillance equipment is going on in support of the probe which just coming out which is a way for people to identify what censorship is happening in specific places alternately this with the words a real track back to the company the country that this equipment came from we can hold them accountable not just the government in the black room in a confidential files somewhere knows that that you'll have because I mean that's really the answer would otherwise we're just making policies your kind of in the cyber security scare like 0 reactive policies sounds good it's going make us feel like we have control and in fact we don't know anything about what it is we're making policy about so you both governmental folks cannot government people more information will create better also
and if you look at the reactions of repressive regimes like it we're on and try not to this and censorship and surveillance in other countries and to their to their initiatives like some so policies
popping up or transnational actually that there's usually covered in the energy loss hearing about news agencies and they are they have recently given the ring authorities can come up with this idea of calling censorship in was for example uh a dictatorship and and the only way of censorship the Democratic 1 as so obviously when we talk about censorship in Germany or a new words or several things going and in western countries it's fundamentally different from when we're talking about here on the justifications for a totally different but at the end of the day is censorship and this censorship and surveillance servants and the best version of a destructive behavior remains a destructive idea OK maybe that's a good point actually to open up the discussion to all of you as a interested in interview 1 or all this actually on this subject this 1 might
have don't be shy we then American just introduce you say if you belong to a group of company the government of the Common Sense number belong to me some and I would like to open up the digital diplomacy to the cultural diplomacy you feel mean that is very important that we talk about the export control of surveillance and censorship softer and I think I remember there was something that the federal parliament from the opposition
about this hopefully this we have to get tough on that but but for
me always digital diplomacy is cultural diplomacy because diplomacy is for me like the fight of the narrative a little bit and and so know we have free radio I mean every every every culture this is having his is having ways to exports its culture and to impress other cultures and that's a promise to think so but now we have this think is the Doppler project that American soldiers and can have sockpuppets like 1 soldier can control
12 social network fake personal accounts sockpuppets right and the and the only allowed to create them to speak in Forestry and wood rule the not allowed to speak in English because then an American soldier could like to an American citizen but they are allowed to make fake accounts on facebook lying in order more fuzzy but not in English because then not so that's 1 thing and the other thing we have the religious and political extremists getting a platform so the whole thing of the narrative is becoming very fluid and I would like to know if you have some thoughts to hear how is cultural diplomacy which I think is a very important field of diplomacy is
counterintelligence working against the the massive fluidity of of narratives thank you may have worked so I don't want to 1 of the approaches
sexually on cultural policy in the European Parliament and came up with a very important piece of Louisiana the reserved for I led the effort in Parliament on the report on the role of culture in the EU's foreign policy but I think you're talking more about sort information wars I think we can look at this in in different ways I cultural diplomacy wise we can also see how technologies have given individuals more of a platform or voice uh where maybe previously they were simply bureaucrats diplomat in a larger hierarchies now they can have their own Twitter accounts are on Facebook accounts and uh I don't know too much about you know alter-egos or order kinds of situations you're talking about but I think really on the people-to-people level this is very interesting and I see that the facilitation of this as well as whether it is planned or not plan I mean you can say that cultural diplomacy through the artist's through exchanges of students for example or entrepreneurs simply brings people together who may not agree with the government's statements and all that but will challenge and the fact that the space to challenge this also is a reflection of an open society I mean the fact that we can have such discussions that that you can find you know 10 10 people with 10 different opinions about how the EU is doing or how the Israeli government is doing or things like this shows just by being open and that there is a diversity of opinions and that people do not get arrested for this and on another layer I think this is also embedded in the technology so that the question will be whether the way technologies programs are actually democratic or open enough to be inclusive rights and because on the 1 hand certain platforms like Twitter and facilitate number of voices but there's also ways in which you can manipulate them and there's also ways in which the in fact the way politicians think that there is a risk that there is more of a dictatorship of the majority for example like if I if I wanna get re-elected as a politician I I have much more of of a sense of where majorities and where minorities are so if I wanna have the winning argument is much easier for me to calculate where that might be there but the strength of the democracy is also found in the way in which he deals with minority voices I think this is bringing of all new field into visibility and and 1 short comment
about the notion of extremists who were also found in voice I'd I personally do think that the open debate about ideas is more healthy than suppressing certain ideas we have laws that limit to hate speech or incitement to violence and they can be applied online as well but when you when with or without the internet with or without new technologies extremist ideas have always been around and I would prefer to see them challenged with arguments tend to be bent out of sight and usually that's to bad idea is we need only look at each of where I was this morning and hasn't made those ideas shrink but rather has made the more popular in the world and fully understood all the
points you're trying to make but as an optimist generally I think this is kind of a good problem to have because this is only a problem you can have when you start seeing the cultural
events of these technologies when access is gone so far and so many people are able to be part of the debate you start to have a concern of mine this newly connected through online and this older connected through online is now you know because they were the 1st opposing the the kind of way of and that's like something to come over but that is a great problem to have idea because that means that enough people on the on line that we have to and I think it's great work you're doing on on the side you think about this back in the seventies when these protocols are in that were still turn like we're still waiting we're still completely dependent on right which was written by a bunch of peace funded by darpa in the middle of the American cultural the Revolution and that's why they came up with this what they thought was a completely flat you know decentralized protocol run everything but maybe that doesn't work and inside again I'm not saying it doesn't work for everybody out there like totally works but I'm saying in general like you can go up to 19 in the nineties when the Clinton presidency said that a telecommunications companies in America to have surrendered filters that ultimately every country in the world having surveillance built into the communication of the United States was the because manufacturers the time all these things like to where we are now which is a massive amounts of access interconnected you you have these things that are causing political problems on so this is not an answer but I think it's a great problem 1 1 additional point of this to the question also who is represented in the next and so it's a very interesting
example that comes to be around the world as well as the visual the Berkman Center and was represented by the graph we can get the Republican came out in 2008 9 2 very interesting studies on the Persian lost here in the area of the and the stock fact was actually that if you look in in the range of digital communication so it's not like might and yet seen from looking from outside actually there's only liberal and secular our freedom the findings of bloggers actually were using the internet by itself you can see there's a whole group to the majority of the areas that will essentially like some media which they should hold logging would discuss it would just think it doesn't mean immediately this is the extra minutes but it's it's a it's used by by much more people there and the political today we're covering originally but it is a constant so what you created what what what in government is doing and what the picture as the goal is occupying cyberspace they obviously see that as a territory to to concerto to occupy but on unfortunately it's that's the view that a lot of politicians also have a in in the developed for so so this but I think it's a really big problems these days because it's putting on the internet freedom and countries are almost everywhere and that the Internet that we know what the network of networks and it's these global and it is a driving force for change and innovation all over the world because it is global and but but obviously there are a lot of groups for or politicians in different countries war working or or at least thinking of optimizing the internet and this is the worst case I that this is the worst thing that can happen for the future of the world because we reduce on a lot of things that you use the and the component to that of the network thank you the way to the problem maybe regarding the 1 point that then and I'm Daniel of signature by way and I think the decentralization the lower layers like
TCP and IP is already there it's pretty decent root it doesn't rely on authorities or hierarchies and I think we have to only rebuild this central behavior on the higher levels like HTTP and the resolution the content of the and if we have the technology that that
that really the people see in a decentralized way and we also work on the political front so I think we can go into a much freer Internet than right now and I think this is really the the problem that some in almost every system that is built some hierarchies emerge after some time and what could we do against this with foreign policy and there of forces against these flat hierarchies because flat hierarchies are among conservatives and power has to be conservative to preserve itself what can we do that to further the flattened again a monotonous so when it comes to technology the answer is yes which means that the hard part is the technology but making sure that smart policy people and people that represent the folks on the ground and maybe a technologist when needed are all talking together so that they know that the answer is yes and that it actually can be developed in the image of what you need rather than what a bunch of peace in x wires the developed countries I think is a great idea for people on the ground in oppressive society yet we I don't know all the technical suggestions and sigh and ammonia the representative of but I I do that you can say
that the not acceptable we do I mm-hm actually
generally I will teach you might not have been no but
I think it is a joint effort but we have to be realistic also about how I even an on the 1 hand you see smart individuals who were pushing the boundaries of what's technically possible and some people are using those technologies to help people but I've also seen at the C C C meeting last winter here in Berlin where somebody stood up in the audience and I thought that was actually a very very honest to also say that 1 of the Hacker said look we were the ones who were creating all these technologies just because sometimes were caught up in the technological possibilities you know can we have can we introduce can we do this and we don't always have control over one's hands this technology then falls into and then and there's a lot of unintended consequences sometimes of technologies I always use the example of a the pattern that Apple filed for shutting off microphone and video tools in a restricted room so for example if there would be a constant here this technology would enable the shutting down of our microphone and video on our cell phones to prevent takes from alive concert put online which helps Apple presumably in their bargaining position with the record industry and etcetera etcetera so this can be useful from 1 uh angle but if you imagine the availability of these tools on the time your square or and elsewhere in the hands of Governments exactly or or others who seek to repress and control their people what is happening so we have to have a comprehensive view and also understand there some very small individual you know like the small limited funding and big brain power of sometimes but limited funding limited power platforms are limited and accountability also and that are doing things verses governments were throwing millions hundreds of millions of something sometimes transparently sometimes in transparently so it's not always in evening even feel but there should be much more context I agree between the programmers and human rights defenders policymakers businesses etc. so anyone who feels that their voice is not heard confined higher psychological here and some and 2 shots and occasional blogger at for years don't matter and I have a question about the um the way that social media narratives shapes of the language and possibly the content of individual states foreign policy some and thinking a couple of years back and when foreign policy was actually 1 of the main sparks for the development of social media blogs in the US and worst started for a lot you start laws after 9 11 and a couple of years later as a reaction to US foreign policy the social media blogosphere really took off in the the river and the Atlantic drift was a big topic for the 1st 5 years of cell until and talk to me which was no longer in the office so and I was wondering if you have any idea how this social
media discourse and that the fragments of language is shaping our changing them diplomatic language that states are
using more if the pervasiveness of information and is making it harder for politicians of the extent to which is it is making it harder for politicians to as speak to their own audience like say jobs
from the Bush in Texas and it is impossible for him not to be heard in France for example and someone in France commenting on that from the French perspective so is that in Europe and in changing the shape of foreign policy yes this a little bit more specific possible what I get you
very quickly they always all the time the income of media on the
other folks questions two-way communication is the way forward and traditional broadcasting and sharing information from Governments is the 1 with the 1 way street and so you know for example in DC during the so called the rates of you have congressman women saying he did get some birds and here to talk about how the technology works and saying this on what before was just the standard one-way broadcasting where there's no two-way-communication guaranteed come the face while they were there this very much change because of another kind of person came up and said so you're following twitter right now you notice that person that an image on Facebook makes more going on so when I had a colleague standards and marks every member of column experts just like would call experts in any other places we need more experts about technology involved in these conversations and not just eating there's just too many more technologies but experts people that have an experience dealing with technology as an activist human rights person and what are the implications of you create these ridiculous policy without any expert advice and we know how it works in many other situations you have months of debate in commissions with experts before you come up and the publicly in a one-way system so I think that was really wants to watch on television whole better policymakers referencing the the Twitter feed similar to the library and also the dates for doing nothing but following social media before policy was enacted that would be bad so yes the next question I'd like to think that minimizes the sign I'd like to sort of go a bit further than with the customers the sense actions you think that the fact that it's easier now for activists to get active and help people that live in
oppressive genes and the thing that's a problem what opportunity of would it be better if they would 1st come to
people that are tend to be more diplomatic because they're that developed to plot becomes that I I think that if people can find each other and help each other across world without government that's a good thing and it's something we we can stop and we shouldn't try to stop at all so in for in general if you know there can be civil society to civil society people-to-people contacts which which is helpful for people's rights and freedoms I think it's a great thing because it's easier for the experts or those who were seeking to help people in 3rd countries to be away from government and it's certainly much less sensitive for people in those 2 countries if if this can stay as far away from governments and whether in finding more association is possible so I think it's a great thing but of course people have to be able to assess somehow whether this is actually helpful or whether there are sensitivities that are under consideration and I think we we've we all have a responsibility here and in the beginning of this panel we talked about you know compromising calls and everything and there was a moment in time where were actively recommending human rights defenders to use cycle Skype was already at compromise so you know everybody has to be very responsible and bring expertise in and I need to say that whether it's about technology or not that doesn't always happen so that should happen more often across the board because it's very easy for people to to just yell something words come up with some kind of policy of for short-term gain or quote a newspaper instead of actually considering the impact on the ground so we all need to bundle this knowledge and keep advancing because the reality is changing on a daily basis more in technology than in any other field I would say and the interesting thing here is so for and the German Foreign Ministry may also be example exclusively very operational until comics sensory are actually so what you were rejected by the leg of of connectivity on energy changes actually so was something where the fuel experts or people who tackle the issue of digital promises to actually got a lot of phone calls and so what's going on there were all these guys actually so other included in that actually so and of course this is what we come back to the beginning of the discussion so what the Social Media Internet ICT would have to to form policy and of course change the system so as to have mentioned sort it reduces hierarchies which are in place and the total number in the recent weeks of of high higher implemented the German Ministry were really scary so because they don't know what it's about so they don't have a clue but they realized OK if my 3rd man in the atmosphere each use more familiar with Twitter and Facebook actually and can make an index so he might be all of a sudden more important than I am although way surrounding the Deputy Secretary of State so this is something this is cultural transformation process which is going on the moment not only in Germany all over Europe and as set of the US was bit more advanced so despite all the bad things we said about the state apartment so they have regular meetings where take the shrink the deployment sexually what is going on in this world so and this is something I think we have to get yeah that's established here in Europe as well because those things will move on and of course progressive movement here will not wait for the green light the list of iteration to have this so that human rights movement but to be honest section of course would be a perfect world if we could bring them all together at some point and this fabulous meeting between the students with the and and some days after the comics transfer of actually it was a beginning soul it could be like I don't know actually so this was fun but I think so seriously it was something I think we have to from both sides reduce the we have at times been talking to each other because of this we have to do something we should say to each other and we can learn from both of the other just a side note that I mean I think a lot of that what is success is its success when diplomats understand how
to use Twitter or is it a success when when people on the ground or actually helped by the actions of the diplomats and as far as I can see a lot of people that really matter were activists whether there are actively online or offline defending human rights who run to the bathroom when they hear the word 21st century state sure and others same they heard the
word Twitter revolution with another question hello my mom my handle Korean that promise German actor community polymer network activists engaged in anti-censorship from activities in some and I agree with most of what you have set we need to get rid of this double standard there is no way why do accept censorship from Saudi Arabia overriding but
not from Syria so we should not have lights civilians or met and Torre civilians interfaces in walk on telecommunications systems that we also sell
to other countries if we say this is that and this can be misused and you know every technology that can be misused to misuse so the best thing is don't put the technology in place in the 1st place some but from of the remark is that a lot of those problems you talked about here are in my perspective social problems and an old hacker wisdom says never tried to solve social problems or political problems this technology because it will not work
technology can help to get certain things done to give people always or at least the possibility to to be heard but some people not so solve the root
problem and what I think what we can do here in western countries this to fight against those politicians that have this double standards that in you know criticized China for the Chinese Internet wall but on the same in the same the do the proposal sharing in virtual Schengen border in cyberspace and things like that of number you know we cannot come talk about so now blocking in this in the European Union to block websites away
or content away and at the same time but criticize it in other countries so
few and I think that come there is some of the the 1 big and media is 1 of those people that want to make the Internet but commercial only 1 media the geome again you know that was 1 of the
biggest threats and also parts of the Liberal Party for example are in Table for this and and bush and press for it from because their friends from the content industry paid about developed to themselves some and that's things that we should address here and if we should we need to be addressed at tier then and we will also have a certain fall out on our actions universe and the rest of the world that it's not that easy to criticized censorship in country a but you know I want to have it in our own country or proposal and that was always in in the
I agree 100 % but no but there's double the double standards are there any trickle through to the technology level so there is also supply of weapons like irony with things that are traded to countries where we know there used to to shoot at people I mean there's double standards inform policy everywhere and and I do think the credibility of the EU and the United States is very important and I have no mention this whenever I had the opportunity but when it comes to IPR enforcement specifically and the role of the content industry I have learned and in working within the Liberal Group in the European Parliament for example workshop series this past year which was in a house just to bring in knowledge about how online and and digital developments are changing our economic opportunities changing the way content can reach audiences and an influence the free market for for example that knowledge is really important uh when people don't understand what technology does and how it can help creators for example spread their work then it's easier for them to believe the narratives of the content industry who claimed to have a monopoly on what's what the the arts and culture are in general for example and I argue from uh from the angle of the IPR enforcement being and the liked the way in which organize now for a fragmentation and also obsT making an obstacle in the free market so I think bringing in knowledge to to people about this really helps 1st of all and 2nd of all these double standards definitely has to be thought and I think we should use the argument that our credibility is at stake and if we don't have our own house in order but it's it's also not in a vacuum of technology on but thing we need clear priorities and as long as our priorities is money and jobs
instead of human rights and freedom we will not get rid of it the I generally agree everything to
accept that and that all have the models I don't know that I always think that the more people that are making new technologies with social is
actually a good thing I think that if we have people making a whole lot of really bad programs and applications I got cut off we're talking too much about the censorship and this is a great problem to have again an exorcism monotonous I'd rather see like 5 really crappy programs that misguided for like the 1 really good program and then you know that but otherwise you're absolutely right OK we take last question and I promise you 1 of the most astonishing qualitative results from an Egyptian blogger actually on the question so
what the which can do to help spreading democracy in the Middle East but you go 1st and so on and so
I am of the view with you another also with the I don't think have double that we have just 1 sentence and that is your supporting human rights in Europe and everywhere in the world but we have collateral if you stick model boundary you have to understand why US act like this and definitely it is because of Iraq because if you look at today's for example US support the democratic system be even if Tunisia was a pattern of so the idea itself that is quality and the amount that you with that but the new way I decided I'm using off the Davison and that has its own sake at the end of the class given government
like the the Iranian government to the user the goddess and look at us occupied New York movement dialect like a all the people is the self these the to the Europeans support human rights so thank you OK thank you I think we agree with that and so therefore I give you the whole domain Egyptian logical all of the sudden who settling into with another friend of of our society and how it was also being here and 1 of the prominent Tunisian bloggers on the question all what can the US and others to URI addressed to the US but I think it also goes to Europe and he says that the US companies always the european countries western companies and nonprofits want to support democracy in the Middle East so that they can do is continue to develop a free neutral decentralized Internet fighting the troubling trends emerging in your own backyard from threats to net neutrality
disregard for users privacy draconian copyright and DRM restrictions to the troubling trends of censorship through current in Europe restrictions on anonymous success and reference the variance in the name of combating terrorism or protecting children of fighting hate speech or whatever you see these trends give our own regime great excuses for their own actions you don't need special programs and projects to have free internet in the Middle East just keep it freely accessible and affordable on your site and we'll figure out how to use it to get around restrictions imposed by world governments innovative and contribute to the networks what is have been last year and the last time the joint we have put people I prefer to use it cost