Made in my backyard

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Made in my backyard
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Against the background of the technological developments that enable small-scale urban industrialization, our relation to the concept of making needs reviewing. Does urban industrialization have an impact on the relation that we have with our products and our environment? Our current mass production system has created a huge dived between the product and its origin. The production has been divided in processes that are mere parts in a larger chain of events. As Marx already predicted, the worker who cannot add value of his own, and is not appreciated by others about, will alienate from the products he makes, his environment and, in the end, himself. To create, is to give meaning, a reflection on ones' "da sein". In our current digital world, "making" has regained a new and important role. Internet has enabled the developments of new "make"-principles that are based on openness, social involvement and transparancy. New professions arise on the crossroads of virtual and physical realities: the crafts of the 21st century. With digital technologies physical products are created. Fabrication facilities like the Fablabs enable us to globally distribute knowledge and locally produce this into physical products, based on open design principles. Think of open source 3d printers for do-it-yourself product developments. We live in a time in which people can give meaning to products more than ever. It is impossible to imagine contemporary society without the resulting increased transparency and freedom.
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the of but the overwhelming around here on the and and but again ends the good morning everyone bad welcome
as well I'm sorry if you because of lack of the laptop
uh just thought we sort of God but what actually happened in the respective electrodes and so on top of each other and and there's there's there's little magnet inside that makes it clear enough so a lot that upstream was turning off phenomenon on because was sitting on top of the other ones but anyway it works now out and it didn't guys I'm happy it's a good start of the data because my computer is still alive so I'd like to start with a what a quote from from a tree also whilst the picture of dorian gray 90 people know the price of everything that the
value of nothing I think a lot of people don't read data that but what is value how does value related crisis and or economy wise for example that want to know which is more you know which is more
useful than diamonds is a lot of cheaper then we call this the value paradox so Our empathic values sustainable social values shared values integrated in our economic economic system I think that there are no easy concluding answers to these questions but I think we are at a point in time where we can really say it in the economy right now and we can create a more relational economy relational systems well values are more based on relation with products people and assistance we work so to achieve this relation we
need openness and transparency so in this presentation I'll show you some context and projects with which I'm working on which relate to all these
questions but also why it's important that this is uh something you have to ask now and that we have to deal with now so is there anyone here when we
know is what is this yes what shut really loud no idea
no those those that so I think that they had this and as
those sending made by this guy over almost went and Thomas went into shock and you the price of a because he was going to buy 1 he was going to buy 1
for I think 3 or 4 bonds and the US itself how is it possible to make something like this for 3 or 4 plants and what's what's behind it was the story behind this those and how do you make it and was making it and what do you need for it but I think it's a really good question because it's also a question which we don't have estimate that that much ourselves anymore and what came out of that is this beautiful toast at which looks kind of alienating because we used to have all these and you see it there and the in the shop together with all the other terms that we
use to see these sources this mass-produced those as as you know objects we use every day we don't ask about what what's how is nature and and what's around but with the
toasted honestly made you can actually see how its name because you need to be very serious and so what he did he went into the minds and uh got
the or the article or the actually found um patent all line of someone who find out how to get I ran out of time and on their is actually someone was playing around with microwaves to try to
get out of our so we use and from all the steps getting further into this notice poses technical process we actually learn a lot about the stories behind all this uh you know 2 people working in the mines and so became more like this this project about the stories around that so that the
toaster tells a story and it's the beauty of the product
I think is that is transparent but you can see these what's behind so it's an industrial product and you
know we we kind of got a year and a alienated from all these products and looking at industry when it
started this is around the dawn of the probably a lot of people you were not the wealth of nations Adam Smith 17 67 and Adam Smith is the 1 with this this is the 1st group that actually describes the year economic system and Adam Smith was describing the self-regulating markets it was describing
division of labor and division of labor is exactly what happened with the toaster as well you know everything became processes and you have some people working are working on that aspect some people working in the minds
of the people working somewhere else on having the fuels to to to to make machines were so there there's another man called Milton Friedman is true capitalists who hasn't really I think a brilliant story about a pencil where he explains the division of labor and I like to show you a movie of Milton Friedman explaining this as and the the
the kind look at this sled it's not a single
person in the world who could make this potential remarkable statement not the 1 from which is made for all I know comes from a tree that was cut down on the state of Washington cut them and train it took some to make the sum it took steel to make the stream at to kind of this black centers we call led really graphite compressed graph I am not sure where comes from but I think it comes from the mines in South America this red topic here the rate the rubber probably comes from a line where the rubber tree and even native was imported from South America by some businessmen with the help of the British government this branch feral have sliced idea where it came from or the yellow paint or the bank and made the blank lines in the blue that hold it together literally thousands of people cooperating to make this kinds of people who don't speak the the same language who practice different religions who might hate 1 another they ever met when you benevolence store and buy this and you are in frame trading a few minutes of your time for a few seconds of the time of all those thousands of people what not and again induced him to cooperate to make this pencil there was no commas are sending out officers from sending out orders from some central office it was the magic of the prices the impersonal operation of prices that brought together in got them to cooperate to make this pencil so that you could have it for a trifling some that is why the operation of the free market is still essential not only to promote productive efficiency but even more to foster harmony and peace among the peoples of the world it the
well that's true capitalism I would say and also I mean
need brings is really romantic story about uh you noticed free markets and people not knowing that they're working together on this pencil but are connected in a way that you know that that creates new social bonding of black well what is
talking about actually is the invisible hand noticed self-regulated models of regulating market and the invisible hand is the hand and Adam Smith
was already talking about it you know that there are some critics about interpretation of that but you the invisible hand of the self-regulating markets became this this thing everyone was was holding onto because isn't it beautiful that everything you know works by itself the problem with that is that you also but that isn't transparent way of of of of work if you don't know if someone is working on division of the cell is working on on a piece there and somebody else's whatever it is that they don't know they have no shared value and all the invisible hand takes care of that so what is what it what it is and transparent situation creates unfair situation and I think invisible hand can be
really unfair and I think that some British people you might that quite agree with that because if you look at if you look at the production and the product may be some
just become so complicated and has become so impossible to trace all these points because look at this look at it's got it's a it's a bit of a problem but it's an old guy and it's actually a very simple right this is you know you have the guys right now are
much more complicated even imagine that all these pieces have suppliers and all the suppliers of these pieces of supplies and those of supplies again so it's exponential at the very you becomes exponentially complicated to trace where stuff is coming from so the guys right have electronics as well and when you put electrodes into the question becomes even more complicated and there's also a lot of stuff going there being unfair about the
reason it trying to use and I can show you that in the in the next sort movie much of the time because I
think the density of discovery and us and I want my way to the Congo of 1 of the most dangerous places in
the world Congo has been a major source of natural resources for the mobile industry in the last 15 years have had that in mind Stephen the jungle children are working on the horrible
conditions I want to see whether the minerals are coming from and you might want to stay on financing and the result of the knowledge of a for this chance to 16
says that for the last 3 years he's been working in
case mining Congress forced to them in the see and this horrible what we're getting really 4 years ago the
least nothing but junk to gage 15 to
25 thousand people are working on the level the other about what the different armed groups are
fighting to gain control over the minds of the the
future cost down here for several days seeking out and new essential for the mobile industry
minds like those of you In the last 15 years more than 4
million people have died the rules in double
buffering like my note here does that make responsible
we have all of the forces and the unit of this course you
must be reported by the situation where you would be up up back on and on but of course this is through the eyes of
documentary maker there's a lot of drama but there is I there's definitely a point here I think and
they're looking at situations we create around all of these products making these products so complicated to even know where stuff is coming from Nokia for example in this movie is 1 of the targets of the documentary maker and no you
cannot say you have conflict minerals conflict-free volts this is not the 1 phone
provider of for fun developer in the world can actually say that they have profited for because it's impossible to trace you see here that the of the of of the tracing and in the Congo itself and it's not only know what this is
about the mobile industry but it's not the mobile industry itself it's all electronics industry note that the
phantom of the uh 1 of the minerals that I showed you know what is what is used for for capacitors capacitors are in an older child so also so I went to this this web website bold slavery footprint or and and I don't I don't even have a
mobile phone actually but I do have a computer I do have a lot of Medtronic in my house so which is useful and always electronics devices you have and the side and calculates how many slaves are working for you so I guess that 60 slaves working for me and well obviously most of them are working in China but some of them are also
working in the states South America Africa it's it's all around the world so is a working for but the problem with really flavor and the installation is that you know what makes the slave that what is what is slavery and what is the opposite of slavery because when you look at the opposite of slavery I think we're talking about liberty and what do you know if you look at 1 of about what 1 of
the the brightest people have really tells about liberty the exercise siren it's a term was
meaning is so forests that there is little interpretation that it seems able to resist so what does that say about fairness what does that say about openness even Liberty is so warrants that you cannot you can't make anything out of it but is 1 thing I do not and I'm a designer and and designers like to think in solution and
not so much a question because we have no effect putting all these questions and all these abstract terms which which you are reunited answer but if you look at the inference so you take the opposite of what is so I think everybody believes that you
have to have action when you have an unfair situation so 1 of the projects we is creating and
therefore and we're still working on it because there's nothing you do not look something do within 1 year but they're formed as
a project was started 2 to 3 years ago and it's what we thought is OK so the mobile industry cannot say that there is conflict theory that the conflicts phones and they can you know vouch for various forms then we're going to make 1 ourselves because of is it to make following forms of being made already the hottest thing in and so we started doing that and of course you can do yourself because I'm not a form developed model in order to understand undermines the minerals so that no waiting on and on but to generative model up as a platform I think we can come quite far so that's what we
did was started step by by step and as 1 of the things we did was also wrote to Congo and find out if it's possible to have to work with mines in cooperation is where you can actually contribute Africa all of all of the different but they did on in the
introduction to this end and along the way let it do you think you
have something to say something so we plan to the land and the the thing is that
actually like most of you who don't know about that
can but the laughter and I think candelabra with this
thing this is therefore on the rules collective nonprofit technology companies developing the problem
using minerals mined and sold under a concatenation of I recently from
undertook a fact-finding mission to correct that the most southern province of the Democratic Republic
of Congo contend that soil so cool for copper and
cobalt that's being used batteries for mobile
phones Defense Fund group visited various
qualities in the mining industry from high ranking
officials to artisanal mining is probably going this
short film shows you some highlights of the
very successful fields from the expectation of to what Hong Kong those topics that I don't have
a joint major the world will put particular financial shelf will be what like to the triple what do you think that it when that love watchful well some future just doing can to things can laughter that came to the point the
thank you for that so in the last lesson here about the history
of the I think I haven't had a smaller area the you community in a way you can do that for these people but I have to do that and people for also so that they could the yeah led the and she gets solution provided they Digicalc leprae these actors and all that much good faith through that we bodies that that collected the license of the time the mobility concepts stuff but I want to have a lot of influence on the other side of the food accessible refined on that the letter from the time I got what it could be but that the money would produce enough people who want to go back to the 2 because the weather for me but
it would have to say about that produce a phenomenon we have to wait do what to be needed at like we additionally also made up on the difference is still more always you also know that the unifying when they are more if they wanted to the deport apostrophe on it to the full in this case we the you know the little copy it but it's funny because in the final dig up on the energy of the fact
that we the ballot without that kind of what I want it away OK I'm going to add to a finite value my freedom Demosthenes Magda and and you can't you that
you the idea of putting them in and then get we have in this case issue of funding cuts in genome that don't have a moment of finding the quantified perspective what their gender is not the 1 object media and 1 that find therefore Apertium more of that we have to deal with the flexibility she be added to produce 2 and they are more given that property how happy and you will hear that oppose sacred object you should the only 1 with that of idea of the following now in full and I extend that fall in the cool fearful delivered on it will you know
what developed we you know about but it does give within couple we went to see that we should laughter is you unless is to in and of itself going to make anchored by in the gut view it would make a really good opportunity not only done so that she she didn't always subaltern wouldn't wouldn't particularly does metadata was that we should be gullible actually seen it but so but I think that the political and took it doesn't occur only dilution cannot don't think colored undergoing up in conclude that should not well I
had you paid and again the heart of the I was what can I do not have right time they did you have with so I work for
Media Lab and Amsterdam it's a non-profit organization called about society and therefore it is 1 of the project uh and you want 1 more about the
project and to what we're what we're at this point you can then go to the website and look it up um at about society we have a mission and our mission is to give social cultural meaning evaluated to that but not technological developments in a way it's a it's interplay socialization and when you look at the projects 1 of the principles we work on a lot of reciprocity and reciprocity is also very much connected to friends so in where all the projects review has has this of fairness component and and also 1 of the things we think is there close with systems you cannot create is
reciprocity but I really like this quote from
makes an unnatural I think a lot of people or some people you want to know that the manifesto in uh maze and 1 of the quotes in there was you can
open it you don't own and I think ownership is very important because when you when you feel ownership you can actually create relations with the stuff you use so there are about society we have several laps and you can see lots of research programs we do we have a critical and then we have Future Internet that focuses on the you know the future of the internet uh reality lab as well as focus on how you are you deal
with that with the urban development and uh location-based applications virtual layers and 1 of the that's our coordinators open designed and of course companies I love has mission as well and measure goes on to that we try to go uh we try to bridge the gap between the virtual world and the old industrial models because in the virtual world we had is network culture and indeed old industrial models I just showed you the real debate on their work they were going target different basis 30 different principle so this is
what happened with the industrious industrial stuff in city division of labor actually took care of the and um what you see that in the back of these industrial buildings that is what what came out of that that's the knowledge Knowledge Economy and the knowledge economy is mainly about integration and
information moved away from control of consumption what happened is that we had a digital revolution and we had a digital revolution this information in this regard suffer well what do I mean by that we look at this people reading books
information was part of the industrial system you need books to put knowledge of you needed films to make it a stupid films so you had all these artifacts and you have
machines to be able to create the side effects to uh to distribute the knowledge that's where copyright also so copyright is very much related to all these industrial process so well with the digital revolution that only change
so information is produced in that in that in a very distributed way and the people of both the sender sender and receiver of information and this
is this is by the way a snapshot of the internet within 2 years ago something so that the revolution make this
possible as well this is not the 1 of the 1st version of versions of the and this was a pain in the ass for industry because you know what the total bypassed system this and what they did was of course uh the 1st reaction was greatest control systems but we went on with this uh and now we have open data and you see all these this creation of openness within this connective culture getting more and more and in many people you talk about it already so we're going to that too much but
this is this is when it gets really interesting because pyruvate think 2 or 3 months ago opened to uh on the side something like that which is called visible so all prior to the next to search for physical objects you can download the files and you can create them with machine these are blueprints of products so as part of the lecture done products and that this happened because products now are part moving away from this controlled consumption as well because is becoming part of the digital digital system we can spread around always information about products we can spread around the files to actually create
products and you should really had friend 40 all industrial Coperite's system because it become becomes integrated into the soul on your network cultural and the physical world so what is that that makes it possible
to download products and then make an all digital fabrication is there is a big part of the uh most of you might know 3 D printing this is a laser so uh somebody downloaded the file and with that follows you send it to the machine and a machine that creator of this a chair out
of so there's a chair so the big thing about is
visual fabrications of course system where you can
distribute notice machines are capable
of 4 Reading machine reading and digital codes and controlling machine to make the objects so and of course this machines and making
shares is not what it is about it's about creating access to means of production because you can't you can't actually download yourself silly from from pyruvate or the nearest or whatever and have all these files on your computer but you can still make a profit efficient machines so that so 1 of the developments and that is uh for example the fact that I think that that fabrication laboratory is 1 of the biggest uh and distributed distributed make assistance and infrastructure which is which is open access and which is growing really fast at that moment and um I'll show you a movie where you really should focus on of tools that the idea will explain the idea from that themselves we have digital revolution but
we don't need to keep having we can declare success we
want what's coming out of the digital revolution in fabrication all my colleagues and I started
teaching a class called how to make almost anything and it was just that the program would be how the digital world
relates to the physical world and 1 of the core things coming
out of the research is the idea of digital
fabrication making this contract replicator in
similar makes anything you want by building the atoms on opposite the designed we literally millions of dollars of
equipment might here like the mainframe to of digital fabrication we can make anything we want using those
tools and 20 years in the can have it in the home
balances between the and the spread all around the
world letting ordinary people the biology from
South African American Norway from early in the inner city boston instead of spending as much
money to the computer is an energy and
communication around the world we can spend much less
than that means to create an energy
communications computation just say the
words they found in the capitalism 18 billion
dollars megaprojects come down Haviland
who's tackling them from the bottom up were just finding so
many people with such interesting invention in such great ideas sharing that where the the scope OK focus so
that explains a lot of problem and this is a model FabLabs around world with which is pretty old actually goes also you in Berlin with Open University of course you have a you have problems well there even
involuntary area I think around 10 to 12 that's already popping up and the great thing about
looking at from occlusions is what it is that we share knowledge on the global level and you have the production on a very local level so you can actually create products sold on node is local level
local needs and share with share the information about making it because you have no similar machines on the other side of the world share that information other people can use that as well so 1 of the examples were so this is yeah Afghanistan and of Afghanistan and
make your Wi-Fi antennas together with also going
and and I and MIT in the states to be able to say and that's why Friday signals from 1 village to the other village so so you can connect all religion all the notes and they create these antennas for around 200 thousand euros so you can make them yourself instead of the 20 thousand to 25 sentences consists in quantifying transmitters but uh another project doing this this
this song on modular housing with addition of replication so hard to be able to create your own house
you can actually build the fact that would have fact that as well so if you have a machine you can the you have to the within in the stuff you can you temperature and 1 of the
projects were working on what society because of the what real sort of about this this prosthetics project we do together with Indonesia and what we're trying to do
is to create a prosthetic 450 dollars prostatic small that it is wrong to 5 thousand euros but when you look at easier for example where you have band and local materials which are pretty strong or you can use that to a set of training of course is not as sustainable as the but it's a lot cheaper but the real challenge with this kind of products is that we try to design them in such a way that people can create an themselves ordering workshops or you know sessions where you get the guidance in or alone but the real challenge
is that so think about how do I create
products that other people can create some kind of making blueprints for other people to be able to create their own products but not only prosthetics
housing these big things are happening in the fact that a lot of ideas from there make staff dresses river in Amsterdam a lot of textile students and uh fashion designers are coming to the fact that to work with textiles to see what
happens if you put the specific stuff on that and there is a problem for example because they're not allowed to do do that when we went to a prototype pairs and give them a job on having something they think of anything as long as it's
not only the blacklist we know for example if which has chemicals and stuff so uh and this is this is an example of a little boy I think 9 10
years old women and you have to get something on this you had something wrong with us food so we needed special uh things for in his shoe to to to make a move that higher inside and you have to wait for the next few months when he was going to go to the shore a parent of traditional the specialist so you decided to do it himself and succeeded so he made this stuff all by itself and the fact that there are no longer and I think it's a brilliant example of somebody puts a lot of time into making this because it's not you know it's not pushing about imminent threat but if you succeed in doing so
what we do know is that you also is look at how can we combine crafts and all process and 21st century crime is a project where we use model building and CNC routing together to create all this you know ecological to combine ecological building with this uh say 21st century ball building funicle them of the so this is my
notice project this is has been shown to be a model of the last year uh prohibited from across so you see that also desirous are hard experimenting with these new technologies as well so if you open up these technologies people find new things
to do with the size and they become the going
and related entities and again in the context of animals and it's actually I think robot that is
making things out of the cycle which is precisely this goes inside of the machine on on the top of the robot and it's
getting out of hand so hot actually that it will announce the the formulation is going down writing in 1 and
lines 1 and 1 and string a a chair or table and other
things which we get the than of course like any other class you can plot
like with varying structure can be funny stuff like gradients and again emphasizes that the way to will not a ideas like tree from the of documents
select model that was made that we all machine
learning and on and order lines and you can see how that a up and
I so OK what is I want to blow it up to a bigger scale and then make an ornament and tell people like in the chair
really has made it wasn't much faster like
representative of the libraries here is that the 2
hours and you can use the same as that of the theory in the future
have you also with project to OK so those are examples
of people using these technologies and to create solutions for specific problems but to create designs or to create objects but it's not only about that I think that's a big part of the lamps
and portends off places like the fact that hackerspaces or whatever you when the color is that is that the making process itself it brings drops and making it into a window into the environment again produces Europe this relation with objects to use again which is necessary also to predators ownership and his ownership is necessary to you know to take responsibility also for the stuff and also to be able to go to the understand systems around here
because making and this is a kind of right story about the about Akio people creating release I think you know really serious the coverage to people make and American President about people make this and they put them together and they ask which 1 do you like most everyone like only therefore there already was uniform and the exactly the same so In a way if make
something yourself you know it's like the ability you got your you get an attachment to so talking about hear you I
think no let people give their own meaning to stop all
products as well pack rather because if you look at
objects and if you've got in order to get this and this ownership ownership of objects is about these experiences as well and again also stories uh the story behind the result so it's important to look at technology and to to to hack into because if you don't technology becomes very complicated and I was showing a car in the beginning and the currents that and the thing and I think I don't think the
government people that configural prices loudness so that's also a reason why we need these places many places where people are packed into this technology because otherwise it will be you know the big companies and big institutions that will make this technology and you'll be the 1 that comes users and uh after to deal with
that so that's all sort of 1 of the yeah I think it may be the most important function of these labs and it's also in the city because that's that's what happened you get production uh much more closer to the to the urban
environments and uh it's it's like some people call it over there post industrial production and across industrial production might actually create this new relation so what what does that mean for
business because I I I think a lot of people and that's 1 of the questions get a lot of of finite story bit idealistic in uh I believe people are Algeria's but the bottom line is still how do you make money with all this stuff and while the bad news is I don't know I don't know I can't I can't tell you how to make money with all this stuff uh with everything that's
happened but to what we did is we did experiments with and was still in doing some
experiments but just just have a look at this this model and so we we we would always have electron you
know before the Industrial Revolution there uh to make products and workshop the mass production model you get standardized product what we have now is that people can actually use you be part of that interactive digital the design process we can create interfaces that people can be part of creating their own products so if you look at sample is a simplified but it's a way of looking at what's happening and we did a project we're told design uh of design as a design grounded in in Holland which is pretty famous for its high quality design and we were we it
creating this platform it's not all idea we're creating this classical make me when we look at how we can create business models around this all these new things that are happening and the main you know the basics of the platform is that it's a platform for products which are not married yet so that means that if somebody is going to buy something on the platform because Jews was going to make you maybe don't make themselves that's a business model that does models as well and also what the product is going to look like because it it still has to be made you can still have an influence on the project on the product so these are some of
the products which which came out in out of of the 1st pilot um this is in the left corner that is that there is an interface created for that where you can actually push at specific places and the coverage will make holes at the places where you where you push and in the
back it generates system that generates all these outlines for machines to read the goal was to actually make use of as well so again after you've made your product you can choose which that is going to produce it and then it sends it right away to the front so it's it's about optimization of system it's about having
consumers make them part of this design process and also it's about how the design a going to make money on these blueprints which are you know downloadable and freely distributed this is another of products of the
from the since its since the beginning languages and cut with the
laser cutter and the nice thing about this and of course the sizes you can change everything in inequality but analysis together well it's got so you can put to materials and all the children of God so there's a lot of and also the other so you have a really high quality begins
so how does that relate to open and for the fact that so I think it's a it's peaceful itself but with those of I showed you work with the business models I think what's happening is that it's also creating new relations with the people who make this stuff
because it gives the craftsmen uh either it's you know 21st century craftsmanship is a fabrication or its people that makes of my hands it is in the face again and you can also you know you can you can relate more to them and uh it becomes much more transparent so to me that's that's open and openness as well but if you if you look at
where I think that the the really the main things are happening in this is where you put
something where you put products online you create communities around it and you create in this context where you want and collaborates with this is that and then you're talking about open source design hardware products this is a crime being developed open source this is a house which has been
developed open source and these products exist online this is where the real stuff is going on inside the once in a while there is a momentum of a house it's popping up which is a version of the local community working on a house that's
that's also something we wanted them with fearful and we're starting this year to create is opposite of community where people can actually uh designing and thing and create stuff together with us to be able to produce this product and I think 1 of the 1 of the important factors and that is that we can make use visible hand I was talking about in the beginning we can make is invisible hand
visible at visible again I create shared value throughout the whole production chain so we go back to where I
started and I think we still have a long way to go but I truly believe we have the perfect situation out to related to to create this relational industry this will go on the odds are also believe that we can all benefit from them so that you would lose and but you for your attention
few about but if we have the proportions not it's 11 OK so what I wanted to prices so it's still early OK for so thank you very much fantastic you cannot on what about the following can you tell me about catalysis of the moral For when would be reachable there that is the problem with the following it's a very complicated
thing to do but what we do we simplified and same we we we don't want 1 mineral which is called well and cobalt is used for making batteries and we focus on all of us who were in control and try to find the a set of collaborations with with mining companies with my name cooperation is there to actually reduce this better and we have
on the other side of the model to the treaty and Vodaphone mobile were already willing to sign contracts to the reason for mark so that's where we start and then you know a smartphone has more than 30 minerals which all also you know do use terms of friends so there's a long way to go into service that going to affect that thank you
very much so you just get so we have to close the session during Q of so the