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Wenn wieder eine Regierungswebsite nicht erreichbar ist oder durch eine Protestnote ersetzt wurde, ob im Libanon oder in Großbritannien, steckt womöglich Anonymous dahinter. Anhänger des Web-Kollektivs setzen sich für die Freiheit im Netz ein. Was steckt hinter dem Internet-Aktionismus? Ist das nur Vandalismus -- oder müssen wir alle Anonymous werden, um die Netzfreiheit zu retten?
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but or with the this should be
a yeah so that's why we have a lot of energy of a few of you I know that of all time and all of them have worked with the case that the shuttle ontologies and you use that we noticed that people that have not standing right in front of a judge of ontologies from the start we worked with people on the about not even met some people have a lot of to realize so I'm going to buy it right or left that's how we want to find out what the correlations of the people and think you would have found my relationship to anonymous I always felt very attracted by the idea of overcoming an has certain forms of politics that are based on the identity and identity politics that create hierarchies and down was interested in if the Indian had could them that provides new forms of communication to realize that and and that's the sort of new connectivity that anonymous and changes to the and am I try to analyze the veil the Constitution of anonymous how it is constituted an at the same time and the inner contradictions of being at once idea found that has no there's no spokespersons etc. and and being as a movement that tries to to change to make a change that the but I want to my left and right in front of you would have to plot but than there are multiple ammonium here on 1 of the speakers of Turkestan production is the oldest and biggest there are no 1 heck of organization on the planet and my relationship with anonymous is basically mostly when are just call me and asked me there can you comment on that oral can you pictures fruit was somebody from a normal so we want to talk to somebody monomers and of course having been involved in the activism and the the debate and so what we do on the Internet for political reasons and what we don't powerful longtime on more of course also very much interested in what anonymous is doing and what the the techniques that they are developing and about whether their intersection is what we doing and there so that has been an interesting time that get a lot of things we have to get out so that crossed content thanks for having me it's really an honor to speak here and to be independent my relationship to anonymous it's I think probably closer to everyone in the audience which is to say that we are all anonymous I work on anonymity software so that every person has the right to speak freely and to be able to read without exception and I believe that vendor artist movements don't really work as well as populist movements where democratic changes possible meritocracy is value and so I sort of came to be the punching bag about anonymous in a sense because a lot of actor community does not have solidarity with anonymous which I think is hilarious because the outside the C C C anonymous whatever other movements may exist in different places there's no difference to an outsider to an outsider they're all hackers have some straight and I think we all stand together we all hang apart so that all few I could have done this in I lot of that you can help you open up and you can ask your questions of people in the process of the main modusoperandi of knowledge is like blocking websites do you also think that websites and because the what is it good for what was dangerous the problem all of much of it I don't know where it has a lot on the website of the government in maybe 1 of the countries it may be dangerous the people on the ground so what's blocking method for another ticket maybe um I wanted a phrase here Germany I think it was atomic class 9 Duncan and I was told to me by someone that located atomic waste transport of some kind and I thought to myself that that was a really interesting strategy that caused a lot of personal risk and maybe it had an economic impact on the ability to transport atomic waste and it says something about the environment in which it is possible to have atomic waste and for it to be transported and for democracy to somehow potentially intervene with this thing which we have to deal with in some way and I see the denial of service attacks are part of a research tool bag of different and varied tactics and I think it's important to have respect for different tactics because we have a sort of similar strategy across most of the acting world and denial of service is 1 of the lamest possible tactics that exist but it does raise awareness and raising consciousness and awareness is extremely important and so it can have an economic impact as well for example if you do a denial of service attack on a payment processing system in series the only thing that you're actually stopping is the economic transactions you're not actually stopping every form of speech or or overloading all communication lines that you are disrupting economically and this is what the Critical Art Ensemble did in the nineties and this is also what many protest movements have done throughout basically the entire 20th century because it was the case that flows of power were essentially controlled by analog buildings and being able to enter those buildings to perform certain functions to sitting and walking was extremely disruptive economically politically and so on now that we've moved online in the electronic version of that sometimes is a useful tactic but often causes quite a lot of strife especially in the hacker community but it has value and we must respect I think the diversity of tactics that lack of testified is and what that no 1 was less than it's quite simple virus we actually work for communication so free communications and style yielded to strive to achieve and if you're looking at the groups for instance lecturer comics who are among the most constructive and most of all the groups in the hacker community for for instance the uprisings and the revolt and they have universal consensus as this is to see as well as that of so this is not syntactically achieves good things there are actually 2 this is busy domain main point of this and anonymous basically using them also as interrupts communication and the is a tool that's been discriminated there that's not true that it's just overloading upset that targeting most most time most of the callers pure was going down from traffic and so there uh and you don't know what else was almost work the the same thing applies to indiscriminate confiscation of computers also applying to solicit have social structure there for targets of phenomenal so them and then there's of course something to be said for integrating more people into political action like anonymous tried to do that but as a as many occasions and other things that are putting their knowledge into to the real world is blocking the street was completely wrong there because of what you doing there as
you are all there and your face that is blocking them so they do what difference there is just if you blocking a website it's totally anonymous and that's perceived risk we present and that means that there are quite a number of people that are getting all into jail they're not expecting that because they expecting to be hiding anonymous honestly than that of proposals and Our basically made matches there formal nor at all and so that's what we see and what variety of tactics that are respectable and OK to to use and forms of civil disturbance or resistance the drafting disrupting communications especially with unwitting people were not really understand consequences of their actions is something that we don't we don't condone yeah but somewhat anomalous that just think what that other forms of online help text to yes for sure that MIT and I want to bound for the optimal from just and I think I just met with the disease I an element in the U S 1 of the people and used by the FBI of having like planted a Operation Payback and to a very involved in the in the data take em at the have is called Operation Payback and and I think I can agree the front front the same and for example she is she just and I had no idea that she could be identified and you have to do with the FBI afterlife and that I'm I'm not sure and mean like in between both of you in this in your opinions because me too I think it's like and rituals then and it's an amazing at various and so on but then it's just an the dangerous if people aren't aware that they can be identified so yeah just to finish that and and if you ask if anonymous more than an then dedusting or hacking and for sure and I think that's what is an yeah but the whole idea is based on this experience of the common and that's what a lot of texts are about of of videos and tell you that and if you communicate anonymously online and you will realize people will realize that all are equal or higher have light each layer needs and and that he can overcome these characters that are based on you were a man and a woman lake bite and so on and among most the idea pretends that an island it's just provide an equal voices and M. yeah I I still very attracted by this idea and at the same time it's just an it it forgets a lot of them hierarchies that are still there even if you communicate anonymously down I am 1st of all the the Internet isn't like that are free and unstructured places them that people who created and M. create the sites where anonymous standard people communicate anonymously they're moderators and so on DID hierarchies yeah I digital divides the interest of all and don't allow everybody needs to to get online and then even if people anonymous and all of us are situated in in our real life and am still and yet what the animated in real life like women men and so on and I think there are some neoliberal implications within the basic idea of anonymous that our flight problematic so what I have called for solidarity Frank what about on the protesters are there for people want to do something they want to do that maybe we can ultimately be online and saying that he also not way what a waste of time in order to get and you ways and anonymous is of course using them as well so there are don't to have been next there are stuff has been published about the misdeeds of component of companies and the government agencies and they are communication complaints that are being used to to influence for instance of not only on 1 holds but also to the to and whatever is and social media and so that so of course a lot of stuff that you don't see you don't you especially when it comes to fighting oppressive regimes like interior well those people that our considering themselves among the most actually anonymous because they're not talking about what they're doing the only to the people meadows and so there's a lot of stuff that's not going on in public there but very privately and very efficiently and references communications are intercepted of the surrounding region like that of the know published so their work has been done to communications into into these countries and and so basically a doing yeah physically activism is not limited to just a denial service and these are of course forms of activism that that the that we find attractive in that we support fully as I could community here and in Europe possible error because using them as well and we'll basically not saying OK anonymous is that because they're using them also that's just saying OK this is is this thing that you should do what the heck technical at the gallery which was a US company involved and also by surveillance and spying techniques and anomalous brought them down by half the huge amounts of e-mails it was perfectly this a business and they all have to destroy the perfectly you know is that part of it can that you can see that this is true fj so we can both play but this is just the tip so it's the dairy for those of you that don't know was involved with a company called talent here and they made a graph of sort of like to target and the WikiLeaks organization and they put me in Glenn Greenwald a number of other people out there and basically said that we were fair game when they were caught and 13 by the way is is I use that and Scientology sets and like they can go after us game so they considered us private citizens exercising our basic human rights for it to speak they thought that we were fitted and just because the business I write that had nothing to do with this I claim your honor that I think you know for me to care about that I feel like there's some aspect where they should care also about the rest of us and what they do their business model in some senses process and I don't really have a lot of sympathy for them even though I don't know that I would agree with exactly the outcome that has occurred but in this case in the and the CEO of the company actually called a bunch of people on the graph but they never called me ever so apparently still think that I'm fair game and I think there would anonymous did and having them was really fantastic because it of the true nature of these people and even showed later that when they were exposed that the true nature is that the mother fuckers and the profits off of the misery of other people and targeting of and harming and breaking into their computers may not be legal but it was certainly ethical because it did it exposes that they are in fact almost exactly the same as the criminals they suggest that they will protect us from
is what is important and you thank the context and all this essentially in in the course of text and publications that and actually carry federal was not a perfectly legitimate business so across all delegitimized there because they had federal contracts legal things and stuff that are illegal and in many countries in the world which is like breaking into computers and letting particle people's life and threatening them was the structure no lights and if the government doesn't step in to and 2 dozens of these companies it's perfectly legitimate to and that the way and that's I guess that's why we can't go behind them and say yes that's like and because that anybody can call themselves anomalous we see nowadays maybe next which of not so much of the black and white area but but but without making a great area and I don't know maybe hear about it more about these great dark white areas who called himself for what this and and it has already have the dead already m need to another very important questions and that it's 1 that is connected to to their HB Gary some of these operations that the question of how how does someone must decide whether to create an attack on there that you do an operation on them and that of computer the bad guy yes who can get tagged on this step and that's all about that in the end it's about and having an identity and trying to get at the attitude to create an identity for anonymous data which is legitimated them all these attacks and so on so there must be and not only this stands for all I can picture and but also a purpose that and all these decisions are based on that then they're still and that's freedom m of communication and information for everybody and that's linked to the idea that everybody can be anonymous but only if everybody has access and can communicate anonymously and that then there's still the question of found and yet who part of it and who takes the decision in the end and if for example this is the fact and yet she decides I want to at take the dairy and am she asked people in the who who will be yeah who will join me and she told me that former that's the the biggest difference between the occupy movement that she's very involved in unless we have to some of the yeah the people who inspired the occupy movement in the the US as much faster and and and the and she's involved in Occupy and an anonymous informer the biggest difference is that if you want to decide anything with occupy if you want to create a common demands and have to discuss it for days and days it's very democratic and everybody has to give his voice his or her voice frequently and she told me if you want to yet to annotate on Daedalus anything with anonymous you just can't get you just mentioned in the chapter and then perhaps within a few minutes down there are enough people together to do it and that's what this this enough is that democratic or on this sounds he had bitch fights it's based on in the and that fear and accountability terminus 726 part is based on the this is physically the the core questions services there the company seeks to that and that is also 1 of the main categories from you what anonymous stepped in and it hasn't been crystallized within a small as it has been going on for a number of years now the our this might mean from from what is will retinoic transcendental the published documents the the the 6 has not really crystallized which should have 1 and the and to the point nor was there that the government has stepped up so that the party is basically over because the government is investing is especially those performances and investing substantial resources but also means infiltration which also means putting people in the little provocation text the i has divisions that are just meant for procreation text is described social movements by letting them do awe-inspiring them to do so you really stupid little stuff said that it was to restore the usefulness and so this is the 1 where white when I see that there and if there is no transformation anonymous movement in the sense that there some commonly 6 crystallizing and that people saying OK we adhere to that of maybe former tribe anonymous that is adhering to this kind of music that that doesn't manifest the movement will review recent you will I have to have in the past year about half of you and a have seen have huge successfully operated again the Church of Scientology operation payday a to part of the peaks and that everywhere on the planet anonymous groups pop hold start doing small things which we didn't get noticed in Europe because of some the head of the drug lords in and South America and then there was Turkish comparable to use this stuff against the government and there was little spanish he unemployment and so on and so on then we had occupied began the guide for last the media which was bad all of part way of anonymously and my question would be had reached the peak and of the popularity like from that and I mean I I really respect Frank print is 1 of the most inspiring people than ever met in my whole life and he advises me about all kinds of stuff all the time but on this point I think we disagree because it's like as my friend Dmitri Kleiner often says it's old rock and roll what called roll guys talking to the new young punk rockers saying listen we went far detection about cutting your responses to much and I respect I respect that there is a difference OK so that that's just the point of what is actually happening the 1st of all when we say what is anonymous we have to start thinking about it in terms of a group that has some people that has a set of unifying points and it is only possible to form of free association of multiple people in that way 1st point that's not the case 2nd point to label the people applied to themselves because they may not have the same positions of privilege of people that can be in such a group so for example if you work in a military contractor I'm sure someone here does in my country it's definitely the case that if there were this many people in the room 1 of them would be there may be a hundred and that label allows people not necessarily to endorse all all the other collective actions that have occurred under that level but allows that person to take action and hopefully to escape from some sense retribution so for example reading a document that is extremely important maybe even faking it so that it looks like it's a hack when in fact it's only and then we talk about the ethics of hacking and really it's an insider reading a document right that label is very valuable and it's the opposite of a vanguard as movement it's actually I think extremely democratic because all people without exception can participate it does not necessarily mean that it results in justice that separates the and I
I think it's different in Europe but at least in the American hacker culture it's with along financial lines like the DARPA hackers obviously don't like anonymous very much faster because the Defense Advanced Research program that is part of the Department of Defense right so they build robots to kill people they don't and and and guns to kill people they don't care very much I think about about what anonymous is doing and there are other people don't care very much about it because we see that inherently is a democratic thing and it's based on merit and sometimes bad things happen but you have to individually analyzed each action that takes place and then decide is that reasonable or not and it's just like any other group in this regard it said anybody can do that so everybody here can do an anonymous action and that's why the Spanish revolutionaries of today are able to do this and the Spanish authorities can't cut off the head of the movement because there is no change of air there isn't someone standing there saying hey if attention and that that's a very valuable because it allows for resistance right not just protest and that's something which we are really you very quickly losing our our society which is extremely dangerous for democracy in itself In the beginning of the this but I think if you combine but you will just sat down there in the data labeled perspective on the label and is an answer to your question about and ad their ethics which crystallized and our efforts that crystallized and and that's and yeah that's right there can be the label of not in most wouldn't be a label but just nothing and and this label m stands for as this specific rejection of traditional politics of of the of and how Democrats Democrats our get very reminders are organized traditionally and I think that if you In this regard occupying anonymous and to those that an anonymous goes further and says this is specific to will and that their anonymous communication online that can provided and other forms of organizing politically and that's what I think is quite interesting about dead anonymous is not only the idea and honest and another level people who identify with this idea to it but it's also an yet and commitment principle of communication and so it was just much about this with my practice anonymous growth with fueled by openness you must be a hacker to participate in not in the text what you nowadays is that more and more organizations are getting used to DB also text that nowadays these organizations media they all the rest of don't half an hour so what do you think the media coverage of anomalous has changed and the for the better of works of anonymous good I think that is again in in the very beginning of independent media and traditional media outlets and whatever their anonymous and in the beginning probably really a only a few journalists might have understood what it's about that it's not true that it's never very just the names that journalists gave anonymous animal already showed dead and there wasn't a real understanding in the beginning but I think that an entity the the the that occupies anonymous Pirate Party and so movements dead directory objects certain forms of political representation and and and the logic of representation not only act as an organizing had democracy by I am voting for a group representatives that also and by rejecting like spokespersons and M. leadership in a specific way and I think that the other journalists more and more I understand what about an hour so part of it if you for example consider a M I think of of buried Brown and 1 journalist and maybe not he's not representative of the general of new anonymous that and people who coverage anonymous and then got more and more involved and then that's another very important and get dressed and off and how it to and promote the idea of anonymous the valid spokespersons and if journalists who like felt more and more attracted em identified itself anonymous but afterwards continued to speak for anonymous creates more and more problems this is actually something that we can receive also support our that puts Jonas so called power party of concurrence themselves because there and there the idea that the traditional means of doing politics and organization of social movements and political movements that they our basically all and the need to try out new stuff because 1 of the biggest achievements of unknown in most that basically the idea that it doesn't need to be a leader of at least not publicly known you know and that there are ways of organizing a protostar activism that don't require a hierarchical structures and that would not require membership and that all require recognizable faces and this is of course the answer to the oppression and surveillance that the governments of the world are busy running out there so the answer is of course like the was discovered in the Scientology there if Europe your enemy is relying on surveillance and on punishing individuals and then the answer is not giving him the data and the problems that we see is the the learning curve in these movements both anonymous and and occupy and also the Pirate Party by the way is relative abundance so you have been lots of problems that are where basically anticipated we can overcome many of them with technology that we are not available for instance the last wave of this kind of which was the basis of democracy thinking there that came up in the the in the sixties and seventies even when the last big social social movements can happen and don't use the greens and so there are ways to to use technology to solve these problems but we are not yet there so there's not a templated and new social movement can use circuit this is how you do when social movement of all the details of heads that can be chopped off there the Austin experimenting face anonymous is 1 of these experiments trusting that 1 last some of them up to OK I'm going to I would you agree with me if I said it was a rejection of traditional power structures but rather an enhancement in the sense of bringing more information for to empower the structures that already exist to some extent in addition to building an alternative In addition to prepare I cause I think it's it's interesting with anonymous and that there's a word in english we resale solipsism which is this idea that when you experiences reality and so if the label of anonymous for particular action is what anonymous is doing there's something to be said about the fact that if you only have experienced to some things they've done which are not necessarily also by your standards you would think that not all also and it's important to not be solipsistic when we discussed that and I think it's actually about enhancement not just about rejection rejection of certain parts like the rejection of secrecy when legalized and then anonymously to document that shows that the person is alive we don't need to know who leaked document we in some cases don't even need to know about the tactics the strategy is important overall but the goal has been met and that's I think that's
very valuable and and to and to look at anonymous in this way where I think it has a lot of overlap with things like her party and with bold hacking communities as well but really what it comes down to is is that the fundamental core this is all non-violent direct action for specific goals in each of the different actions that takes place and usually it's about positive
social change by revealing previously hidden information and as a result of correcting asymmetric power influences and sort of writing them in a way where you can't possibly resist like you expose alive that person is now known to be alive and there's immense value and that and it's not just a rejection of the old system but it's an attempt to try to get people to say OK that should you care about the truth and that is a core value of our system and now the truth has been exposed the new kids wasn't for you in the middle a dialog the fact that 1 of the best the what is the and last thing and almost half ton of people in the name of a lot time and along themselves to be inferred for the body of behind so this is basically the biggest fallacy is that there the communication structures we are not coherent and didn't manage to build build webs of trust the media you want to to infiltration and this is my opinion will be ultimately the downfall of the current the incarnation from a moment so what I'm very much looking at that they managed to to build a new incarnation away from you whatever but from what I'm currently seeing there there's some very little mutual trust in certain movement there except in very small circuits which is basically the same thing that there are for instance the that FBI achieved an American a customer that is also formula has already infiltrated and so not not building up structures that could resist that in a distributed way as a signal to the receiving the future of price so I think I agree with frank about this but I would like to suggest a different outcome of little quick tour of American history everybody here heard of Martin Luther King Jr did I tried to get him to kill himself before he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize this is part of a counterintelligence program called prone I would like to suggest that the worst thing that anonymous did was allow the FBI to infiltrate them but I would like to suggest that it will not be the downfall of anonymous but rather of FBI agents that violate the constitutional rights of Americans including some members of Anonymous and I think that that's something that could happen and hopefully we will have the equivalent of the Church Committee again which exposed all of the FBI's illegal activities and fact dismissed the charges against many people because of the illegal tactics of the Government not like the outcome was to make it happen and that's why I suggest solidarity as a tactic for all of us because we should hold the powerful to account when they in fact are criminals in their own right there is I think that this is about like the the 2nd big straddle that anonymous justified is to respond by Darren these enemies that and try to control them Information and Communication Online worldwide and these are the worst enemies and the 2nd enemy is like an and in an immediate that the people who would an yeah it too powerful and then adjusted to make decisions that are in the and contradictory to the idea of anonymous I think gift if down there can be technological and technical tools in the future and then something could be reached what time has just described in anonymous is an experience to this yet common purpose in the end right so this Republic of object and I suggest you take action maybe not by timing and almost right now but I the rest and we have like in the middle of the room we take this we stressed that was that was going to other people whoever wants to offer best yet we still have we can't use so sorry hello Jerusalem and cofounder of ecology and and I and I in the client that respect so much as in old rock and roll but have listening to him I had a bit of these impressions of hearing you know those people will usually you are also the as well trade and say all know with these internet things anyone can write anything you know that like if about and sometimes stupid you people writes to things that people write which they even have a lot of people that you really want on the internet and so on but this is not the case to make it that freedom of expression on the Internet is not worth and might might question here is that we know we've seen the premise of that already that's 1 of the most we'll be instrumentalized and as a concept and we'll be instrumentalized we all know that when it comes to reach into information system is 1 major problem that the attribution most of the than time what 1 might be addressed somewhere but you cannot know who did so anonymity is the perfect blocks to turn any attack into all get in the car like yeah that's what while question you might get a lot of question here is is and that's justification for this some kind of solidarity and the responsibility that we would have to and actually it's a good thing don't under the label of a node in and out of the rest of the to explain that more clearly than just the is experimental signatures must've almost sort of the things I'm just saying some aspects of anonymous our plans to put an end to the responsible and are which is formerly part of solidarity is telling my friends when they're stupid and doing that things are so I'm not the type upon questioning supporting concepts or ideas that are apparently not model floor but what I'm saying is anonymous us in this concept and an idea is the right thing to do because it's only on so that we have in respect to what our governments are going which is physically pressure vessel and and that the only answer that we currently have to that this except toppling the government is an monitored and trying to preserve standard which is almost as things that bolster Jeconiah already actively working on constants in the top project there so that the thing is we we always had big debates magazine about what tactics are useful but can be used and what is not so smart and we have come a long way in the learning process and then when jacobs referring to me as an old rock and roll of 1 of the things that the presence was learning about ourselves a text in the nineties so to CCC condoned extreme than ourselves attack against the French communication lines in the nineties and process of the world nuclear tests and on from there the Republic he was that a deliberate was not really something that people understood and see what's and that because it disrupted communications so be learned about doing basically and so all these things OK belong the lesson we have this opinion on that but by the way the rest of the stuff to do is pretty cool on support and so on get please but make a yeah this is me I work for an Austrian and you deals with additionally for me 1 of the questions I have always when anonymous In an occupying are discussed is this is a real constant the concept of non-violent direct action is a real constant is this popping up right now in this new forms and the 2nd is I had the chance to to talk to me Norton mostly interested 1 of the strengths of of movement like anonymous area occupies that they're constantly falling apart and you can't really graph can you comment on that welcome to and I think the 1st test some of the by now there are answers given by some here it's like had road empire and then describe down like our current situation global exploitation of people and a new form of political capitalism that M reaches
like every part of the world and an increase no know what our society and and that in this new form of capitalism every human capital capability on AI has to go and get a value to be an in gap which is exploited within the capitalist system and found that this system that I asked you to read yourself and create logics of computer and sound move in yeah the whole will social life that's what you have Facebook shows in a certain date and then down yet people like continuity favorite and there is always resistance to the power structures and the new forms of resistance are then to empire decimalLatitude and occupied anonymous and all these an yeah movement that rejects identity politics and can be described in a certain various forms of the might Stewart and yeah that's what I would say saying I I don't know if you want to reduce the number of you if we have people feel like the maid labor day of on the outcome you can still today and also at the same people protesting demonstrating that the loss of the 40 years now and I think people and they are not going maybe we have to think of what may be 140 years from now take of the case of the peak anonymous thing URI reads newspapers that have anonymous quotes and right this this notion of peak anonymous is like a misunderstanding of what it means to be anonymous actually and to apply that level again it's not just about computer actions or acting actions it's about this notion of being able to do a thing for reasons that are a little bit more complicated and nuanced than simply being anonymous and and and I think part of the reason that the resistance is happening now at least from my perspective and I'm sorry to do the thing all Americans you just talk about fact of America but we have these robots that fly around the world and kill children literally retarded American children on while what the user totally bad guys I hate speech data extreme his 16 year old son was targeted by the American military and killed in Yemen is born in Denver right this 6 16 year old kid this is a guy that they didn't even bother to call a terrorist yearly call them a suspected terrorist so I feel like non-violent direct action is the least that we can do and that's that's the thing it's the very least that we can do and for people that are not doing that I ask you to consider how you can be neutral on the flying robots killing children trend because of the few this is actually the the the core point here is that or governments have become very very bad and apparently very few people seem to care about it because they're too busy running time so we looked at the lights and so the the thing is anonymous and the idea of participation which is also beyond by our party that is something that is unique the new thing to do are getting to that is something and this is the the and responsibility that lies behind that is of course the instructor people to do something useful on something that that is actually productive and protestant and effecting change and of course you can disagree and the tactics and because of course you can disagree on the security or red but the core and that's understood the really important stuff is this participation and actually doing something about stuff that we call can no longer take this as the concept that is behind anonymous this is something that we also use lot even if the current condition of anonymous and not right so these people are not going to take action on their behalf of and I'm still not convey this is 1 of the CCCs position on the performance of online blocking of websites and J. is mentioned there has been a history of debate and action with this form of protest of the electrons and distribute theater curricula on some of the nineties publishing books and debating it openly and we also have an example in Germany in 2003 and was with the deportation analysis and actually groups from the left protesting against and deporting immigrants from Lufthansa and so they want to organize an online demonstration against the ones of come with the constants that given by the demonstration of the concept OK what's the location of the center of town that come in and they didn't know what to do and yet demonstrations took place terms of the common went down the people that rated and years use of struggle and court the court ruled that it was illegal demonstrations on wondering why do we have to fall back behind what legal so think about the people in our tactics to I also you know what you get it right I am wondering if there is a line for CCC say up to a certain point we we can accept that there may be a point you try to make it all yet a to little this knowing about like and having to hide their identities not impossible behind or doing if it is organized people are willing to go out with real names is that OK but I think my prof friend that some the decree Johnson president and the knowledge each online demonstrations had between all of the monstrous and we're looking there is a so many analogies between we wrote a book so simply wrong if you are going to a demonstration and sitting there and propagating in nuclear truck for instance was transporting nuclear waste and the you're very consistently we that we need to plan for that you need to plan to be arrested and and spend a few days in jail there in the need to plan for getting so player water for 1 and so on and so on so this is a very much different activity that requires much more from them much more concessions decision to to take risks the Western so-called online demonstrations visit very casual activists most people simply don't know what they're actually doing technically there on the other hand Texas and that like if you are in in the case of that we currently have a lot of the models which should don't come can be very much different classified summer tourism and and and use and not just a few days so that the core argument why we argue against analysis of texts is because in that case we are for free flow of communication even in the school subsets of MasterCard and saying OK this this disrupting communications so this is the tool that the governments are using the governments are the ones that are switching off the internet that our censoring the Internet of blocking websites that our uh sequestering domains so this is basically the toolkit of the enemy is not all to to front people like comics who arguably the probably the most effective figure group doing positive stuff for a social movements worldwide which of the 2 of which are out of date I think was in the area of reading it very various hard to communication lines and telling people how we moved to you text from images how to that how you know the highest communication so that they diagnostic don't parts a few people doing the parts that are in the the and and then we interpret it in tomorrow afterward them and they have a good consensus against the most those text for reasons because it's said it we are effectively doing constructive stuff you if you sometimes eluded the structure from somebody else's Soros but we're not looking collocations will and this is the the argument that we have against the so called on and demonstrations because we are trying to affect positive change a negative change I think the answer to that find gentleman's question is we don't and we don't have to do this is part of the rejection of a vanguard strategy for revolution or for social change and I think that it's quite clear that it's a distinction without a difference when you talk about breaking into a server like color comics broken the law observer of the Syrian government for the DPI machines those are the things that log all the connections of people interior and and the recent release these log files and I respect telecom it's very much and I think the actions required usually quite
interesting and mostly respectable they remove the log files from the server and then they released them to the entire Internet they denied service to those log files until the release of and so there's again I think it's worth stating it's a distinction without a difference right so it's it's true that sometimes you know servers inaccessible or a network link is flooded or something like this but to the outside there isn't really a big difference between breaking into a server with memory corruption bug and doing it by using a login and password that you just on the case of telecom finding a server that doesn't ask for a lawyer and password and there's a sort of elitist mentality which depresses me to hear from the guess computer club but it's like what happens in structures as you have a sort of hardening of some ideas and it's it's quite sad to me to hear that you know these people aren't dedicated or if they're not going to jail because they actually found an effective method of resistance that somehow the voices non valued in the same way but in fact that's a strong man because most of the people that participated in the not like Operation Payback have been arrested as I understand it and they're gonna go to jail and in the United States the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act says that maybe it'll be 15 years in jail for some of these people and that's the charge so we must stand in solidarity with them even if they're kind of stupid because whether or not the stupid victim blaming is wrong they we're working as it was noble and actually not so just so it's nice political stroke and punish them but there was no victim blaming was just saying that there are to that we don't think people should encourage other people to do what has actually doing so that that they don't understand that they don't know what the responsibility of the of the product that has informed consent there was 1 of the things you're talking about and you don't actually know whether or not people have informed consent because some of them didn't and that's your projecting your reality and suggesting is the reality for all these people so there's informed consent and the technically knowledgeable that makes it a legitimate tactic by your argument and the thing is that I actually don't think that's necessary they can be the stupidest people on the planet without any knowledge of how the technology works and they still have a right to have a voice and they still have a right to it even if they don't go to not protect me beforehand that they could go from maybe that was not the case of type of their was thinking that they were doing a normal most things as the name of the size the state and that's a lot of other and so this is this is I think that the the problem here is 2 things 1 of the doors from communication which is basically wrong very fundamental level and the 2nd problem is people thinking there anonymous but the 1 with the with the different told that it's this is the case if we already discussed that in the beginning and I just want to add that but yeah you just mentioned that they they might go to prison and so on and I just want to it the lawyer 1 of them to methods have as a lawyer in New York and also like and you can some of the other people who were who I accused of having been part of and there's still a lot of hope that because it's in an inner so our family there are no laws for in these cases yet not throughout the and no specific also they are still important and we hope that they would be interested in the human heart that just from the on line right at this moment there was proposed in the European Union which have yeah they think about a lot of the of the we lost and we get people to take pictures to get to know these proposals and I decided to go to the colonies Europe parliament to the people and so on next hi I'm not alone was not only a solvent and have a kind of trick question I'm not really growing enormous and you like me so I want to join this this post modernism of most of its movements in the anomaly is it's only based on their effects on the soul what I thought this of I somehow managed to get it this checked who would assume the actions of Anonymous of plant so I have to to ask some friends restrict welcoming inside the and finally and I I read his jet is something like a model it's all the right here is the address the dosage or something else and then it's up to me to decide is this an ethically correct thing to do do or not on the maybe you could think about this when answering the question is systematically molten what should i is the nominal member not doing this situation because these I think correctly in this and most of the person of the end there is the I. Guyon who infiltrated the organization would be a problem anymore or what you worry about it the idea of using the chatroom because each member has thing for his own at so I didn't get the point and I think I understood what it is saying and I just to say that you say you do you do something as an anonymous action you would do it has nothing to do with chat rooms necessarily right so you just do you outside and you say fuck this corporations that sponsoring event about free speech but they actually like you know censor the Internet when you buy attention from the media were such a corporation of my but that's not what I have found that even if it's not answer is anonymous but also as an anybody can claim to be anonymous and like and do in action in the name of anonymous then it's not democratic at all in the end it's just it's a sort of anarchy hit on the idea that very soon becomes something is an entity yet democratic countries so that the exactly what it was doing by and the documents and if you know the circle is the order parameter and this right thought that was really fashion outside of the test so there was a trial or hearing things from different parts of the world like 40 people leaves and all members of the court and there was no support whatsoever they're by themselves they have 1 lawyer nobody can they went to the church decided to take and they face consequences of by themselves so maybe that changes in the next year years I don't know what that is a consequence 1 has to live with if 1 takes part in of the interesting thing about this every individual has to decide that's nothing new there and that's anywhere they're not actually something that we had for a long time Erez hackers because we have in some respects also as whole and we can do stuff that is influencing events so much more than other individuals can and the of course everybody has to ask what he's using his talents and it's time for and so this is nothing new this is basically why cities in the European scene tried to develop something like music something like and code of conduct something that there is at least a guideline that you can reflect on fuel think about doing stuff and this is what I'm visitor coming back to the beginning there this is what I physically you has had hoped for is that something like this this crystallizing with anonymous movement and still hope is doing that but then there was this is sort of the something like a who you and all this particle here and their connectivities it's saying OK this is what we do and this look at and if you're if you don't developing system group even as an anonymous group is of very few membership than the problem false always back to the individual and the individual scores on and on its own can always has a much higher likelihood of being wrong because it doesn't have the couple for a from other people you know constant because I can't I mean that hopefully because of what our times that of the day you can you know what you think is a lot of you will taking part in that kind of thing that few inthe and right at the