European Political Bloggers: Creating a Public Sphere?
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BlogDigital mediaTraffic reportingComputing platformData conversionExtension (kinesiology)Level (video gaming)Digital RevolutionGoodness of fitInternetworkingProjective planeWebsiteElektronisches MarketingCollaborationismConnected spaceWeb 2.0AnalogyControl flowInformationRight angleSheaf (mathematics)Real numberCopyright infringementOcean currentExpert systemOrder (biology)Lecture/Conference
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Intrusion detection systemInformationVapor barrierOnline helpFormal languageoutputSinc functionAreaVotingTranslation (relic)Term (mathematics)NumberReal numberSphereBlogLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Maschinelle ÜbersetzungTerm (mathematics)Local ringIdentity managementWordContext awarenessTranslation (relic)Arithmetic meanDigital mediaFormal languageLogical constantSoftware developerMultiplication signFacebookQuicksortPoint (geometry)WebsiteBroadcasting (networking)InformationState of matterBlogGreatest elementView (database)Right angleBuildingSphereShared memoryWeightSign (mathematics)Vapor barrierOvalWindowLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Projective planeSphereSelf-organizationFormal languageWordTraffic reportingEuler anglesLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Multiplication signSpeech synthesisBasis <Mathematik>Traffic reportingPhysical systemSphereWordDialectLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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BlogGoodness of fitProcess (computing)Wave packetInstance (computer science)Multiplication signFormal languageBitWordIdentity managementPopulation densityLevel (video gaming)Power (physics)Digital mediaMathematicsDifferent (Kate Ryan album)Source codePosition operatorQuicksortLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Digital mediaTraffic reportingPerspective (visual)Different (Kate Ryan album)Level (video gaming)Formal languageAssociative propertyCovering spaceDimensional analysisOrder (biology)ECosTerm (mathematics)ResultantBlogBitContext awarenessTotal S.A.NumberMultiplication signSystem callDialectReading (process)State observerLine (geometry)WebsitePattern languageMeeting/Interview
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Basis <Mathematik>BlogTheoryPoint (geometry)Integrated development environmentState of matterHome pageMusical ensembleContent (media)FlagGoodness of fitAxiom of choiceMeeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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Right angleArithmetic meanBlogDigital mediaSoftware crackingGroup actionSource codeFormal verificationResultantWebsiteLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Physical lawContext awarenessEquivalence relationTable (information)Term (mathematics)Electric generatorAreaPoint (geometry)Position operatorDialectLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Level (video gaming)Vapor barrierFormal languageSingle-precision floating-point formatInclusion mapVotingProcess (computing)Lecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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AreaTerm (mathematics)Video gameWordEndliche ModelltheorieBitWebsiteMathematical analysisState of matterGroup actionSurface of revolutionDigital mediaArithmetic meanMeeting/Interview
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Basis <Mathematik>Data conversionTowerRepresentation (politics)BlogDigital mediaCartesian coordinate system1 (number)Term (mathematics)Data structureResultantTotal S.A.ResonatorForcing (mathematics)Key (cryptography)Lecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Block (periodic table)Matching (graph theory)Endliche ModelltheorieAreaInheritance (object-oriented programming)Dependent and independent variablesPrime idealLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Term (mathematics)Single-precision floating-point formatWeightBuildingInstance (computer science)Form (programming)Process (computing)Level (video gaming)Lecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Theory of relativityLevel (video gaming)Modal logicVector spaceDifferent (Kate Ryan album)ExpressionLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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BlogExpressionRight angleDigital mediaLevel (video gaming)Data structureView (database)SphereSoftware frameworkQuicksortLine (geometry)Point (geometry)Computing platformLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Multiplication signDigital mediaFocus (optics)Machine visionIdentity managementInternet service providerType theoryQuicksortData structureAnalytic continuationSpacetimeExpressionState of matterForcing (mathematics)Meeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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Independence (probability theory)Process (computing)Video gameINTEGRALGame controllerLocal ringSystem callCASE <Informatik>Group actionSurfaceMeeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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Physical lawProcess (computing)Core dumpReflection (mathematics)Form (programming)Computing platformMultiplication signNominal numberClosed setBitArithmetic progressionQuicksortMereologyCategory of beingCopyright infringementLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Projective planeWeightCore dumpSelf-organizationPlanning1 (number)TrailMachine visionDifferent (Kate Ryan album)Process (computing)Group actionFamilyPoint (geometry)Lecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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Equivalence relationBlogContext awarenessInformationNormal (geometry)Vapor barrierPhysical lawComplex (psychology)Formal languageRule of inferenceMappingKey (cryptography)WeightForm (programming)SummierbarkeitString (computer science)Computing platformNetwork topologyWordNumberLevel (video gaming)Meeting/Interview
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Basis <Mathematik>CASE <Informatik>Execution unitPoint (geometry)Local ringUniverse (mathematics)Process (computing)View (database)Right angleNegative numberPhysical systemMultiplication signInformation securityDigital mediaNichtlineares GleichungssystemQuicksortGoodness of fitInformationRule of inferenceBitCNNWeb 2.0Meeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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Rule of inferenceDigital mediaSound effectPhysical lawArithmetic progressionMoment (mathematics)WordMusical ensembleBlogMeeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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ResultantPhysical lawLevel (video gaming)Moment (mathematics)State of matter1 (number)Pulse (signal processing)Analytic continuationFocus (optics)Phase transitionQuicksortSimilarity (geometry)Multiplication signPower (physics)VotingRight angleMeeting/InterviewLecture/Conference
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Division (mathematics)BitDifferent (Kate Ryan album)QuicksortState of matterMoment (mathematics)Crash (computing)Projective planeSound effectTerm (mathematics)MereologyResultantCatastrophismArithmetic meanMeeting/Interview
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WebsiteSummierbarkeitCondition numberLevel (video gaming)Group actionQuicksortPoint (geometry)Multiplication signProcess (computing)Sound effectLecture/ConferenceMeeting/Interview
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InformationSoftware frameworkDirection (geometry)BlogExpert systemMereologyMultiplication signTelecommunicationData structure1 (number)Level (video gaming)View (database)Web pageArithmetic meanOpen setVolume (thermodynamics)Endliche ModelltheorieKnowledge baseDisk read-and-write headQuicksortProcess (computing)SummierbarkeitTraffic reportingMathematicsPulse (signal processing)Inclusion mapOrder (biology)BitRight angleWeb 2.0Meeting/Interview
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Web pageSpacetimeOrder (biology)Right anglePoint (geometry)BlogView (database)Process (computing)BitHome pageIndependence (probability theory)Speech synthesisLogic gateQuicksortInternetworkingMessage passingRegulator geneVotingLimit (category theory)Associative propertyInformation technology consultingWordGraph (mathematics)MereologyInternet forumBlock (periodic table)Expected valueAreaSphereClosed setEmailBuildingMeeting/Interview
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Regulator geneLecture/ConferenceComputer animation
Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:16
Haven't done anything yet Good morning or good afternoon. My name is Jonathan mugs. I'm a recovering journalist
00:24
Having escaped from traditional media in 2003 and what I do now is I explore emerging platforms and how that affects storytelling you didn't come to see me you came to see these guys and So today's my pleasure to moderate a conversation which has been billed as a discussion between European
00:44
Political bloggers to what extent they can create a real public discussion But I'm going to start with the audience because we want to make this interactive So I will be leaping up and down on the stage. So sorry to the people on Watching us on the internet. Can we have a show of hands of who is actively writing a blog in the audience?
01:06
okay, that's interesting and And so who calls themselves a writer or a blogger could you raise your hand Do we have any politicians in the audience?
01:23
how many people regard themselves as European first and Their nationality is second. They think European that's interesting Do we have any lawyers in the audience? No, good. That's that's very good news
01:42
That's very good news, okay. Well, we have four guests with me. Let me introduce them in alphabetical order With what they say about themselves actually on social media sites So I will start with Rick Falk Vinger Currently lives in Stockholm, Sweden and is the founder of the first pirate party
02:01
He's a political evangelist traveling around Europe and the world to talk and write about ideas of a sensible information policy He has a tech entrepreneur background loves cooking and whiskey, I understand We're asking about your favorite brands Christian mere As a journalist human rights professional and international media media policy expert last month
02:26
He was appointed the executive director of reporters without borders German section And amongst other things many many other things professor Alexandra pojani Teaches and supervised research on collaborative innovation and digital marketing at the University of Rome
02:44
She's had a connection with you you projects for more than 16 years currently involved with discussions about the European digital agenda and last but not least John worth is founding partner of tech politics a web campaigning and social media agency based in London that has run online campaigns for
03:03
UK politicians such as Harriet Harman Deanne Abbott Diane Abbott should I should say and Ken Livingston? Not for current elections, okay hear that let's start with Rick
03:24
What would you like to say I'd like to sing a song Now Syria what strikes me in terms of the Public sphere here in Europe is that We have language barriers to cross and there are a real problem. Are you while I was leading the Swedish Pirate Party?
03:47
I was blogging exclusively in Swedish since after all I was talking to Swedish voters the Swedish citizens, but I'm sorry. Yes. I am Swedish. I'm Swedish. I live in Stockholm, Sweden
04:02
But once I started blogging in English instead I Multiplied my audience by so much and realized that had been a real language barrier here everything We'd said in the Swedish discourse on Information policy basically had to be repeated in English because it just had not permeated the language barrier
04:24
It doesn't So I'm currently working on Overcoming these language barriers. I have a number of volunteer translators on my blog. So I'm trying to bring it Multilingual and seeing just how that
04:41
spreads the ideas that you actively have to build a European community a European multilingual community that respects and Acknowledges these language barriers. Otherwise, you'll get stuck in a specific area. You won't reach say German mainstream if you're blogging in English
05:01
You won't reach Italian mainstream if you're blogging in in English or French for that matter and this is Something that we need to be keenly aware of in terms of building a European public sphere I'm convinced technology can help us. First of all, we have the ability to recruit volunteers to help
05:23
translate articles IDs comments Which we wouldn't have had if we didn't have this technology As in we can have volunteers in each native language translating things that are interesting as we go I'd be very interesting to see for example, what's going on in Portugal or Albania or Moldavia, but I
05:44
Honestly, I don't have a clue because there is no input from those countries in a language comprehensible to me And I think that's a real problem. Also you have automatic translations that are sort of helpful to get the gist of things and It's getting there, but I think it still has some way to go before you can really start discussing ideas in detail
06:04
And is there a danger of misinterpretation of ideas because You may understand the text, but you don't understand how it was said. Oh, absolutely I mean they say all politics is local in terms of all cultures local and things are always understood in the local context
06:21
So that that's why you probably need a native Translator that who is able to translate not just the meaning of the words But also put it in the cultural Context of the recipient crowd and this in my experience is much much more important than you first realize. Okay?
06:42
Alexandra Why do you think it's important that we should build a European pan European identity? Okay Well, I think I care first of all and I think Well, we've seen all the hands Holding up before so I think there's many people that actually
07:02
Cares and I think the economic crisis we are witnessing is Saying very clearly that a currency without a state doesn't work and there is no state without an entity and we Can't really think about having superimpose our state over us without building from bottom up a
07:21
Sort of identity in common sense and shared opinion and a public sphere From the people that lives in this continent And I appreciate what Rick has said language has been a barrier for a long time and traditional media up to now Have helped
07:42
Forming national identities, especially in countries like Germany or Italy where I come from That are younger than other older countries but they've made so through a common language and the portray of Shared identity and common custom that have helped people
08:01
recognizing each other as a country What I believe and what I hope for and I think it's proving so is that The development of new technology and they're inherent international and transnational Status
08:20
We are all very aware where we go to the net or if we tweet or if we are on Facebook Or if we write our blog that it's an international sort of shop window. We know that when we're there Everybody can watch us everybody can read us Not only people from our country and in Europe
08:41
I've seen that in like analyzing what happened For example, when the Greek Parliament was voting on the European Union measures a lot of young Europeans and not only young but even mainstream Europeans Use the net to understand what was actually going on what people in Greece were thinking about and
09:05
Even though the language was very different a lot of people that were posting They were trying to make it in English or in French to have other European people Understanding and sharing their point of view and sharing their situation because it is a situation that
09:23
influences our lives too not just them but were they doing that because they hoped that the media would pick up on what they Were tweeting or what were they were saying on their blog or that other? Other Europeans, it's it's like the egg in the hand. Is it it is true in a way that traditional media and television and broadcasting are
09:43
Bouncing back a lot of stuff that they keep they take they pick up from new media and social media But I'm not sure and I don't think that people that share information on social media or on their blogs only do that
10:00
To be bounced back by traditional media I think it's traditional media who are following and chasing new media and not the way out and not the other way around Okay, Christian What challenges you think we face in creating a European citizenship? Well, I would say sitting here talking in English again. I think we are already
10:22
facing a very crucial question of European public sphere as I think Europe is Firstly not just about talking about European Union. It's very important for me and it's a Important Europe for me is deals with multilingualism in the last four years. Actually, I Dealt dealt dealt a lot with a question and the challenge of multilingualism
10:45
Because I was responsible for a project which aims to establish something like a European public sphere called your topics dotnet it's a European press review and I think European public sphere is still
11:01
Still something very very elitist and I think that's actually the biggest challenge and it's not It's elitist firstly because of the language It's firstly elitist because of the cultures and that really brings me right across to Tuesday day, which is really important for my organization
11:22
Which I'm working today for reporters without borders the word press freedom day because for me Europe and European public sphere is not only a question of language is a sense of Spanish German French But really in the sense of political culture and in Europe we so far don't have a common political culture and a journalistic culture and
11:46
that's as a first remark in this and Probably no one last sentence on this what's really important for me speaking for reporters without borders here said it's Always asking for press freedom in other countries and we have problems in Europe in Germany and France in Italy
12:06
In Hungary with press freedom. What we really need is a common demand for Democracy and press freedom and and this is a ground and a basis for European public sphere for me But where will that demand come from the public?
12:21
Yes from the public. That's a question of citizenship education the question of political culture It should come from the public and it comes but I think from time to time We aren't really aware that we in Europe could be happy that we have something like a well Established democracy, even if it's not everything is good, but talking to be about we're on the word press freedom day about press freedom
12:41
We have lots of problems and lots of regions of the world It's a Here in Europe, we don't know how lucky we are. Is that what you mean? Here in Europe. We we don't know how lucky we are Living in Belarus for instance. Definitely. Definitely is one of the worst countries Okay, John. I know you've been on long train rides recently
13:04
What would you and that gives you time to think and you're also a very active blogger. So Why are you so passionate about Europe? Okay, just a word as well I'm the only one of the four speakers here speaking in their mother tongue I do speak French and German and the bits of other languages as well
13:20
So I'm not just a monolingual British person and just to make that clear I Think that the the issue for me is most important and also coming from a country which has a complicated Relationship with the European Union is that our identities are multi-level thing We feel some affiliation to our city our region of in our country
13:45
To Europe as well for me whenever I'm traveling outside of Europe That makes me feel more strong European than perhaps when I'm when I'm inside it So that's worth that's worth being clear about and I think those things change as well and I do think our press and media have a slightly outdated concept of
14:03
Those different levels of identity and that different people can feel those sorts of feel those issues in a slightly different way and I don't see the language problem in quite such a severe way as some of the the other remarks Which of which have been made and I see that particularly when it comes to creating a common European
14:23
Political culture the difficulty is is that we see the same problems through different national prisms still regardless of language So just to give an example, there was a very complicated negotiation going on yesterday in Brussels I was blogging about this this morning the eco fin council if you read spiel online or you read the Daily Telegraph
14:42
Reporting on exactly the same thing and I can and I can read German and read English So therefore can can follow both of what they're writing if you exactly the same problem, but in completely different terms And you can't actually tell from either of their reports what actually happened and why the negotiations broke down So it's not actually purely a linguistic issue
15:01
it's those are those are Traditional media which are appealing to national audiences because that's where the business is in order to manage and sell the newspapers Tried to take that at European level and that's where I'm kind of I still have kind of one foot in Brussels although I live in London these days and The difficulty is in my experience is trying to cover European Union to politics from a Europe wide
15:22
Perspective is no one is actually currently very interested If you look at the total number of readers of either blogs about European Union matters or indeed the kind of Fledgling EU press the total reader numbers are very very low because the numbers are very big Sorry, do you have any numbers? Well, my my blog on a good day might get a thousand individual visitors
15:42
Yeah the biggest The biggest EU online news sites like your active comm or EU observer Might be getting something in the region of ten times that number But putting that in context of what Spiegel online or BBC News or something like that would be getting and those numbers are still tiny So that that is a difficulty also because as a result of the people caring about those issues being so few
16:05
That means you don't have enough finances in order to do Traditional investigative journalism if you if you like so therefore to give the answer to that question Which I posed about what happened yesterday So I think there's there is a business and a kind of political culture issue Which is at least as important at Brussels EU level at least as important as the linguistic issue
16:25
You also run this European portal. Yeah, this is a blogging portal dot EU and Ronnie Pat who's here in the front is also on the people who runs it and we are a team of About 15 to 20 volunteers who run a EU blogging aggregator called blogging portal dot EU and we're basically blog nerds
16:45
Read blogs about European Union business on an everyday basis Anyway, we automatically aggregate the content of more than 900 blogs and then we have an editorial team that flags up What's good onto the home page? The only things we don't include our blogs which basically think the whole European Union is a conspiracy theory other than that
17:02
Willing will include it and It's had some reasonable success in and around the Brussels environment of kind of taking blogs to it to a wider audience I've been blogging about European Union matters now for almost seven years and at the beginning I'd say to people in and around EU politics I write a blog and they look at me as if that was something from some other planet
17:22
I don't get that reaction any longer and blogging portal dot EU has been one of those reasons for blogging being taken more seriously In and around the EU institutions So if you write about any EU topic Widely and generally have a look at blogging portal dot EU and there's a button where you can submit your blog into the aggregator And then if you're producing good and interesting and compelling content
17:42
We one of our volunteers and may end up flagging you onto the home page and that might drive some traffic away Can you actually make a career though? No, no Well, we've we've wondered for blogging portal dot EU whether we ought to make it into a not-for-profit Association try and apply for some funding or something for it and in the end we decided that
18:02
It was more hassle than it was worth So we're kind of an all we're building like an organization without a formal a formal organizational structure That means trying to take any decisions about what to do is a bit hard But nevertheless we managed to get something to carry on I'm not aware of anyone who just purely out of blogging and
18:21
Sale of that content makes a business out of blogging about European Union politics in some national political environments There are people that do in British politics. There are a few But doing that European Union level due to that lower number of readers you'd really be struggling to do that Yeah, you won't you won't get advertising if you're only reaching let's say 10,000 people a day. Exactly
18:43
Rick I'm interested if you go to your website, you have a range thing story about why you believe that People who make culture Although you have an interesting fact, there will always be culture whether whether it's funded or not will always be reliable journalism
19:05
Has there ever been? Okay As an I mean if you look at how journalism is changing, right? Oops Okay, nothing happened. Nothing happened If you look at if you look at how journalism is changing right now You have old media meaning newspapers television radio and so on who have always just claimed things and expected to be believed
19:27
On their merits alone on their credibility alone, but this is this is cracking, right? There are cracks in this mirror. If you look at Wikipedia, you can see citation needed pretty much everywhere people demand to go to the source and old media does not provide this but logs do and
19:43
everywhere People are demanding to at least be able to verify claims for themselves, so I think Credibility is starting to be backed up by saying this is where I got that data Rather than trust me because I'm honest Bob's car salesman or something like that
20:06
There's also a problem to that when you talk about access to the source that some governments are now trying to put legislation to block certain sites Which is a huge problem. I mean they are basically not understanding that the legislators
20:20
Usually in their 50s and 60s who are creating these kinds of laws who are setting the tone in their respective parties Do not understand that the wiretapping and censorship laws They are enacting are the equivalent of when they were young if they would be putting microphones under every cafe table For the young generation if they understood that they would be absolutely horrified
20:42
but they don't live the connected lifestyle so they don't and in terms of Just going on just Going on a question that I want to ask here in the contact overall context since we're talking about a European citizenship here How many in here have heard recent news from
21:04
Slovenia, let's see show hands one Mall Darvia one Okay, Portugal five My point here is that yeah, how can you feel like a citizen of
21:25
this area Which after all includes these regions? If you can't feel connected to them if you've never heard of them never been there You never heard a single news of okay. It's a it's a spawn on the map and that's it
21:41
I'm Arguing that we need to actively work to include People across cultural barriers across language barriers, or it won't happen we need to see those white spots on the map and actively include them or we won't get a citizenship including those cultures
22:00
But isn't there a problem that people let's say in northern Europe Don't really care about the issues going on in the south and vice versa Well, what the I'd say most people up in North care about Greece right now. Yes The thing is they care about Greece, but they can't actually what if
22:20
What can you do exactly or in Slovenia or take your pick? The Irish are voting later this month on whether they ratify the latest EU treaty or not Yeah, it will have some implications for all of us in the European Union altogether What what can I as a non Irish citizen do about that? What can I do about whatever the outcome of the Greek election is going to be coming up this weekend now
22:42
I'm fascinated and I will read all of that stuff But I have no way means of influencing that process. Well, that was true until just a couple of years ago I mean today I'm connected to people all over Europe people I call my friends are pretty much in every country and that wasn't the case before once actually Twitter Yeah, but there's a structural problem in terms of the way our politics functions in that
23:02
It's a Europe wide problem of what to do with the eurozone But it's being played out in national political arenas to a greater extent or into governmentally in Brussels When it comes to 2014 European elections There's nothing whichever way you may vote one way or another as a citizen of what if we're all in this together To be able to shape that at the ballot box just in the moment
23:20
So there's a structural political problem as well as there's that networking problem because equally I'm fascinated I can't shape the Greek debate and nor should I be able to Whereas I should be able to shape a debate at European level But the political structures are not in place adequately yet in order to build to do so Other questions from the audience if there are please raise your hand, okay
23:42
Carry on So I just want to refer what John said. I think it's not just a matter of discourse but but a matter of the terms of reference of national politics talking for example of Politics of pension. I think everyone here is affected of pension because we someday we we will be old
24:02
And so everyone is interested in earning at least some money when he's old and I think I think so to one hand It's a matter of discourse But on the other hand It's really a matter of terms of reference and that the terms of reference of the politics which affect the people are mainly national
24:23
And I agree very much with with John It's really a matter of the political structure that enables or or doesn't enable us to Have a say but I would also like to say that what you said is true But if we take the u.s I'm sure that most people in Dallas wouldn't know much about people in Boston or what's happening over there
24:47
And they don't actually care because they know they are part of of a country which is bigger than their local Community and and as a continent, we are plenty of local community in regions in country in a larger continent
25:02
So I'm not too much preoccupied about the fact that I'm not very much aware of what's happening in Slovenia Just today. I'm worried that because what happens there affects my life, too or their economic situation or their political and what's happening in Hungarian in Hungary is
25:22
Influencing us too in terms of freedom of press for example But we don't have any channel to influence What they're doing, although what they doing is influencing us. So that's I think what is most important
25:41
Hi, my name is Janet. I write for Global Voices and we've been trying to translate our coverage between southern European countries so a little bit like Alessandra was talking about people wanting to hear from each other My question is maybe so it seems like there's a hub and or this hub and spoke and kind of a model of okay
26:04
Discussions can happen in Brussels and that affect all the EU and people don't seem to be too interested in that It's what John was saying, but people do seem to be interested in what's happening on the wheel in other words. What's happening? as you said between countries And actually think in the States people in Oakland, for example yesterday were quite interested in what was happening in New York
26:24
On May Day it was happening in New York and just seem to know like to note that the European Revolution Which is this site on group on Facebook has like 200,000 people on it and they're quite active So it seems like there's interest in certain like horizontal political exchange
26:41
but like there's a disconnect between that and Brussels so how do we I guess my question is how do we Work from the horse the interest that it comes up horizontally and how does that get back to Brussels? I don't think it's gonna happen the other way around but I'm just curious to hear your reaction
27:00
Okay, so with the risk of going into politics for a while here, don't worry about it. I'll come to religion later We are observing that the connected lifestyle is doing politics in a completely different way than the previous generation We're observing that we are demanding Access to people in a way that our parents would think was
27:25
disrespectful of say the Prime Minister or ministers or whomever whereas I Was living the connected lifestyle just assumed that we could tweet the Prime Minister and expect a response from her or him personally and
27:41
That's something entirely new So, yes, I agree that there is a huge Political aristocracy problem in Brussels if you like they're mostly living in an ivory tower quite disconnected from The citizenry the voting citizenry and that's unfortunately a design of the European Union that the European Commission is
28:05
Completely unaccountable to voters. They will never have to face a voter for re-election ever again in their lives So they're working with something on the order of tens of thousands people to write policy and they're completely unaccountable
28:20
The next generation of politicians, however, meaning the next generation of citizens do not stand for this They are demanding to be taken seriously in ways our parents weren't and I think that this is a tremendously positive Development because at the end of the day that means that this Brussels ivory tower cannot survive
28:47
And I think that will mean that I think that means that we will have Access on a daily basis to not just our representatives But to the actual people writing policy as well in ways that is
29:02
unthinkable today And you think the blogging is more Influential in that conversation then let's say the mainstream media Absolutely, I mean blog bloggers in the European Union are the ones both in terms of inside Parliament and outside Parliament are the ones
29:21
Who highlight what issues are important right now as they see it? But often this resonates with feelings of the citizens of Europe actor would be the prime example right now in the public discourse We have a handful of bloggers maybe two dozen key bloggers in total that highlight what's going on with the gun negotiations in the European Parliament and this
29:45
results in hundreds of Thousands of people in the streets in pretty much every major city across Europe So there's a very very powerful resonance here from blogging as a phenomenon to
30:01
Pierce this ivory tower and force transparency on the political structures that I think is tremendously important for the future Yeah, but that's a topical thing I mean that's that's what we had earlier when when Ronnie did the talk about your
30:25
political blocks in Europe This Is about net politics this is about it It's there's there's a natural match between the people on the streets and the people online This is try that with agriculture and politics and it won't work. So I'm not so sure about
30:44
This being a sustainable model for all policy areas It will work in this particular area because it's the people who are affected and it's not their fathers You know and maybe now because they own an iPad but It is not our parents who are respectful of the Prime Minister. It's us who are affected by net politics
31:04
So yes in this area, it works that way but not about the ecofin Council not about Economic policies not about the common agricultural politics. It doesn't work for everything and that is the problem I think with respect to this approach
31:23
And you just mentioned I'll give a 30-second response before handing over the mic here I think that Five or ten years from today. You won't be able to say net policy is a separate topic I'd say that it will be something that permeates all our lives all aspects of our lives pretty much
31:41
It's like you couldn't have oxygen policy as a separate topic. It's just going to be so everywhere that I Don't think you can you can Let's give it off so access you mean access to the web is a human, right? Yeah, access to the politicians is going to be so universal. That's a long time. I think
32:02
Christian I really would underline what you said there in the audience to coming back again What I said earlier talking about Social Security politics, for example I don't see so far any real European movement who who fights against Social Security budget cuts And that's I think due to the technology because talking about the actor saying I think that's as you mentioned
32:22
It's really a natural thing. But I think I don't see any real European movement transnational in a similar way like the anti actor movement There is there is one example on Fishing on the mobilization on the web, which is huge fish fight run by a UK chef
32:42
Now it might be that UK focus with not so many Signatures elsewhere online, but it's managed to get 750,000 signatures in an online petition about fishing discards. Yeah now it's not social security policy But it's not just a pure matter of net politics either And what I would say there in a quickly in response to Rick is
33:00
And I say this is a kind of a as a longtime member of the Labour Party in the UK for me I don't see that change coming within labor Unfortunately, and I think the same can be said for any kind of traditional political party now the overall base of support may be narrowing the numbers of Activists may be narrowing. Yeah, but the change of generation is not
33:22
Creating into a new generation of politicians who are more better web back web activists And why is that because they are brought born and brought up in a risk-averse Hierarchical political party environment net or not Yeah, they're used to having a friends who put inappropriate things on Facebook and they're paranoid the same thing's gonna happen to them
33:42
So It can go a little bit both ways now now Rick may Legitimately argue that in the end there may not be potentially a role for those kind of parties in the future But nevertheless when you've still got the hierarchical structures within political parties both nationally and applying at European Union level I don't see that change coming very quickly
34:01
I wish it would but I don't see that change coming out of my UK and European Union political experience Well, can I just add something I would argue that any change? Needs a transition and and just to Go back to the state saying the UK I was amazed a couple of weeks ago and the economist
34:22
About them talking about the third industrial revolution talking about the digital now in terms of politics and the influence that blog bloggers the net people that have more more free access to
34:41
Communication channels even with politicians it takes a while because I mean If you were a politician that was used to be in the ivory tower in Brussels You it would take a while before you would think that you need to answer That's you know, that's just about human beings are so
35:04
Human beings are usually conservative especially when they have you know when they are on the soft spot I mean that it's it's just normal that they don't want to give a quick answer or a quick feedback But the fact that is now possible the fact that through means of technology
35:21
through means of more exchange, I mean the Erasmus Program has done so much for Europe to have more exchange of information among younger Europeans All that has created an environment in which a more Closer relationship with our representatives and
35:42
And and and the pressure from the opinion from from the public opinion is made more possible Which does not mean is there yet, but means that we can make it and and and just a little thing We Often speak about these sort of issues
36:02
Not realizing that it's also up to us If we want to change things it also is down to us so I don't I mean as European as European Brokers You know, they feel better not talking with bloggers
36:22
Probably bloggers feel more confident are in the comfort zone when they speak about technology policies or The actor rather than fisheries or agriculture, it's just normal, but once you have sort of gone Go over that that point that for example, you've made such a huge
36:43
Pressure for the actor then you can you start realizing Well, perhaps we can do that for Social Security too, and perhaps somebody starts doing that you know, it's always down to someone who who takes the Testimony and and run otherwise you will not happen. Well, we're taking in from online to offline to the street
37:07
Yeah, I just wanted to Disagree with John. My name is just a swim it I'm from the German pirate party as a German and as a member of the pirate party Maybe I'm my point of view is a bit off but at least in Germany, you have a lot of politicians now that are
37:24
Acting with like like bloggers like netizens in a way and not only people that did that all the time because they are for my Generation like young Philip Albrecht in the MEP, but also people that are in traditional parties like Peter Altmaier For example, and that's not only a German thing
37:40
also Donald Tusk Went on IRC or for like hours and talked to people in Poland and Marietje Schake Who is also from the Netherlands and also an MVP also talks a lot on Twitter and so on and Maybe British politics is just more conservative than than other part of politician other politics in Europe
38:01
Just one question when you say that people are on Twitter and they're having a conversation Are they having a real conversation or they simply broadcasting using Twitter as a broadcast platform? Some politicians use it like broadcasting the examples I just gave I'm not so sure about Tusk because I don't speak Polish but and the other three examples They actually engage with the people on Twitter
38:23
To see how many people not only are following them, but how many people they are following because we have example I'm based in the Netherlands. You have example of politicians that have 15,000 people are following them and they follow nobody They're not having a conversation
38:40
That's precisely the point because but they were just just on the British point There are British politicians who are using social media Yeah, but there are very few of them who are in any way using it in an interesting and creative manner No, there's a lot of broadcast. They will engage with people who are on their side No, they will never deal with critique very effectively. No, they were in the numbers look great fine
39:05
Yeah, I follow for a Peter Altmaier There are you the ones you did site are a couple of half counterexamples. Yeah. Yeah, I'm Phillip Albrecht I work with Marietje Schacher, so I know what she's capable of But but I can count on the fingers of one hand any British politicians who are using this in really genuinely
39:22
interesting and engaging manner and a lot of it is kind of I've got and have blogged about it. There's kind of four in my mind four stages of an online politician The first is denial, you know, the second is self-promotion. The third level is Console is conversation and the fourth level is kind of transformation Realizing the people out there know more than they do on certain politics issues
39:45
There are very very few people who've got to that fourth stage Altmaier hasn't got there and there are no other German politicians I follow I follow like some members of European Parliament from Germany and I speak German so I can follow what they say Matias quarter people like that There are none who've got beyond the kind of a polite little bit of conversation kind of stage
40:03
Very few are getting anything like to what the Pirate Party is capable of doing which is actually genuinely Using the knowledge of the people on the net to really deeply inform their policymaking No one in the UK Really is doing that and there are very very few in German or French or Dutch or Nordic politics that are
40:22
Outside of the Pirate Party. There are very very few still questions Hi, and you know, you're talking a lot about creating a common European culture
40:40
You were talking about this earlier, and I'm so sick of hearing it. Sorry. Sorry Because I think it's so cool that we all come from different backgrounds. I think we should totally Embrace it and and and I might sound a modest but indifference to the u.s I think we should be really happy that we all come from different backgrounds here and My question is define a common European culture. What is it you want to establish?
41:07
Yeah, that's my that's my question I think that is a great viewpoint Honestly, it's this you know, there's this saying on the internet nobody knows you're a dog
41:25
there's I Mean if you look at what the internet has done It means that anybody can bring any ideas to the table and they're valued Solely on the merits of the ideas alone and never on
41:41
Who brought them? never on the conditions When how that person was born where when how and never on that person's age religion politics only the IDs themselves and this brings a tremendous diversity Where we are forced?
42:03
to release our prejudices Because we can't see that when we cannot judge From things we don't know we are forced to judge the ideas on their own merits in ways We've never been able to do before So I agree with you, absolutely
42:22
I celebrate this diversity every single day and it's also that which allows us to bring this It's called institutional competition in legalese and politics and political speak When everybody's working the same way You don't have any way of improving you don't have any competition between processes between
42:47
bureaucratic bureaucratic ways of doing things between forms between net problem all of this all of this citizenship or citizenry if you like So yeah, I think it's great that for instance Eastern Europe is just
43:04
Charging ahead of Western Europe right now in terms of building broadband and just leapfrogging Western Europe with all its paperwork going straight to electronics. I think it's great to see how There you go. I think it's great to see
43:24
This being questioned on so many levels and We wouldn't have that if we weren't diverse if we didn't have different cultural backgrounds if I didn't wasn't able to come with Swedish eyes and See that things in Brussels are much more complicated than they need to be then. Nobody would question that so
43:45
Absolutely, I think you're right in every detail But I think we all know that you know things are not going too well over there Like I don't I don't think it's only the Swedish eyes, you know But I think we should instead we should just you know Have take it for granted that we all come from different backgrounds and then just work on the relations with other
44:05
I'm coming from an international relations background Why can't we just work on the relations of I don't know just the fact of accepting each other Coming from different countries and then work on problems rather than establishing a culture Like why do we why do we need the culture?
44:21
I mean, we are all Europeans and we all know it like what cultures that we need. I'm personally I'm really not arguing against any diversity in different culture background as Rick. I am date on a daily level I'm celebrating diversity But it's a matter of fact actually that Europe is not the European Union and there are lots of countries Not only outside of the European Union which call themselves
44:40
Europe where freedom of the press wherever freedom of expression is really suppressed And so that's not a matter of background, but that's a matter of commonwealthy. So I'm I'm I really Celebrating diversity as well on a daily level, but I'm arguing I'm arguing that there we need a common demand for democracy I'm really happy as I mentioned earlier as you that we should be happy about having here more or less
45:05
common understanding of some crucial important values But Europe is not the European Union and outside some countries there We have really some problems taking into account Belarus taking into account as a baijan Where we on the daily level have violations of human rights press freedom media freedom freedom of expression
45:24
Bloggers are threatened Journalists are sometimes arrested killed and I just want to point out this Well, I think that at least on this side. We were not talking about culture. I think pretty much all of us
45:41
Do agree with you that we're all happy about having You know a cultural diversity that can be our richness Well, we were I think we were talking about this citizenship and structures or channels in which we can we can recognize our common culture and we can build a
46:04
sort of a country or a sort of a framework in which we can all recognize each other and Will be dependent by each other not only when things are bad But also when things are good because you know, how is going now whether we are taking all the bad side of it and
46:23
actually not taking advantages of the strength that we could build in in being More aware that that we are united even if we don't always remember that So I don't think that you your point of view which I completely agree with I don't I think is pretty much
46:42
In line with that and it's not a contradiction When we say that there are no structures to do that There is no common political platforms around the countries and still the public sphere is Over-influenced by traditional media which are most of the time very national nationally focused and don't portray
47:05
the vision of a more international Europe or transnational Europe that we would need to Understand better what's going on. So if if if you agree, but I think that's pretty much what we were saying Okay. Hi, I come from Macedonia so I could probably relate to what you were saying
47:26
Chris and Also, I mean I would like to respond to the to the previous interlude tour Because I I don't see this as a matter of replacing any type of identity with another
47:41
so creating a joint European identity is something that would enclose or would provide space for national or ethnic or religious or other identities which are basically presented as opposed by forces which try especially in Eastern Europe by forces which try to
48:02
Continue the end of undemocratic practices and in much of Eastern Europe Maybe even in the new member states of the EU the structure of the structures of the EU and insistence on transparency on solving some very crucial problems related to the life of the people in the country including the journalists like
48:24
independent judiciary independent control of the police Accountability spending of the public money eradicating corruption is they are Totally connected with the European integration process
48:41
In play in some places if there is not the European in integration process there would be no oversight over the local national governments the the citizens who are oppressed have nowhere else to turn and So I think I know I I find it crucially important for the people in the EU
49:05
to look a little over the fence and see their new man, I mean to see what's going on in Eastern Europe in the because sooner or later will become become citizens of the u2 and
49:22
there is a need to Maybe try to work together to solve the problems which like in the crease Case of Greece if they are put under the rug They will surface 20 years later or like in the case of Hungary with the first freedom surfaced
49:41
Yeah, like 20 years later after its democratic Transition started and they got into you like 10 10 years ago And now we are faced with What you what you can call presidents that an EU country Imposes laws which are counter of the European values, which are the at the core of these democratic processes
50:06
so and this can spread because this president can be used elsewhere like and The things that happen in the West have big reflection elsewhere because if they can happen here Then it's much more easier for the people who are against democratic values to present them as normal
50:21
And use them as excuse in their countries to show that what happens to the people there is nothing nothing wrong I Maybe a question to Rick and John
50:41
I've recently bet with someone on the on the internet that if the pirate party will manage to get up a common topical platform for the 2014 EU elections and if the socialists and the center-right get a get European Commission candidates to run for the elections We will get a European public which will pay attention both to topics and to persons for the first time
51:03
Would you take that bet with me to? Or speaking for the European pirate parties that is in progress. We are going to make a a joint effort in the election bid for the 2014 across the European pirate parties
51:23
As for can you speak for the social socialist international John? I can't speak for socialist international and I can kind of fill in what happens With regard to the party of European socialists There is the idea that the party European socialists should decide a common candidate for commission president for two prior to
51:45
2014 the decision-making process is each of the national parties of the party European socialists shall decide how they shall nominate someone That can be an open process or it can be a kind of a closed behind closed doors kind of traditional sort of Process I do think that the party European socialists will get its act together a bit better this time
52:03
Simply because they've got nothing to lose and they look stupid last time when they didn't manage to agree on some kind of candidate if the left does it the right will probably have to do so too and there are already rumors circulating in Brussels about the Right trying to unify behind a particular candidate who's currently the Luxembourg member of the European Commission
52:22
So I do think that yeah on that thing We should have to to or potentially three of the liberals put forward one some some some faces at the European elections Whether those individuals are actually bold enough to talk about anything substantive is another issue The left would have to manage to carve out some kind of
52:41
Notional policy which is at odds with the policies of the center-right at European level and they've equally been rather Reluctant to have that sort of policy input as well in the past but maybe if you've got a candidate first and maybe that person can kind of corral the forces on the left, so We'll have some incremental improvement So sounds at least like you're getting you wish that there be common topics across Europe
53:04
There will be common people across Europe and let's hope them that that Does cause the push across Europe to actually talk across country borders? For the elections that you that you aim for it'll be topically driven rather than the fact that we happen to be European citizens
53:21
Well, we have something Close to a European president or at least Politburo chairman, right? That's That's being for person driven and that's going to be interest of all of Europe. So you I think you can have both Okay question from the audience
53:42
Nina Klein from the Frankfurt book fair. I have a question of how important you think that Subsidizing and finance is for creating this public sphere Two of you mentioned volunteer translators. I know the financing of your topics a bit Just how important is it that the EU?
54:03
Spends money on this because it spends a lot of money at the moment on translating Documents so couldn't help to In the volunteer sphere what I am okay nation in other words, you should be able to build a career. Yep
54:25
So my experience is that people will translate things they feel worthwhile translating and there's no shortage of that So I haven't even asked for translators for my blog Which I will do shortly once I've had enough experience with them and still Upwards of a dozen people have contacted me saying I want to translate this into my language. Can can I please do that?
54:47
Let me think about it for a minute. Yes, you can please do that so It's very easy to think in terms of what resources are needed, but I prefer to turn the problem around and ask How can we help these people who already who already want to do this and who are spending their spare time?
55:07
Building this European identity through sharing of ideas and There might be a political way to do that. The most the easiest way might be to keep the net free rather than the classical political solution of
55:23
Allocating a bit of budget and saying that this this is a proper solution Well, I personally don't think that we have a budget problem I think what the EU should do is what John said for example or Rick said about creating
55:44
Parties and platforms during the elections that make people Participate and and are actually relevant to people across the borders So choosing a candidate which can be representative of everybody can speak with ever forever for everybody across
56:02
different countries I have public consultations on the net about the EU policies Be more open and answering Questions and tweets and blogs and post all we can make through organized blogs or personally I think this is what I expect from the European Union rather than budget to create new blogs
56:26
We all know that People want to have a blog does it and and it's not waiting for resources from From from the Brussels bureaucracy, but but from a journalist point of view who will who will keep account who will take account of?
56:45
What local politicians are saying who will check what politicians are saying what they should I mean what I expect from? Members of the European Parliament and European commissioners and people that work in Brussels is that they take into account What people what the citizens that vote for them or should have voted for them if we had a better system?
57:08
Think and write and exchange with each other. So this is what I expect. I mean is is They don't have to allocate a budget to take into account what the citizens of this continent think I?
57:20
I fully agree in this and I think What it's the European Union and the discourse and European Union so far It's totally irrelevant to lots of people because it's in transparent and it's not a really civil societal approach of the whole project and I think one of the biggest problems of you that it's in transparent and Because of that it appears totally irrelevant and that's very important just to mention that there exists some projects
57:47
But they're civil society project like ask the you where civil society organizations are trying to promote transparency But I don't think that it's a matter of money more money invested by the you into
58:00
Lots of product and I don't even believe that that that in the end such elitist project Eurotopics Which I was responsible for need so many languages in the end a project like Eurotopics Would I would which I was working for just is in my safe and I think the kind of Network where national networks have to be connected to and
58:25
And then it has to be translated interpreted into local languages To give a very concrete proposals to what the European Union can do to help this happen is Stop talking about net freedom in terms of foreign policy
58:46
Stop talking about it as foreign policy. It is not credible Start talking about net freedom as domestic policy first Once you have net freedom as domestic policy
59:01
Can you be credible in talking about it as foreign policy, but not until then? Data retention directive is an abomination The wiretapping laws in many countries are horrible to this kind of transparency We need whistleblower laws. We need whistleblower protection
59:22
We need freedom of the press that's guaranteed across European constitutions that applies equally offline and online Get that as a domestic policy and we'll see put it political transparency And then you can start talking about it in terms of foreign policy
59:44
The same could be said for all EU policy as an extension of domestic policy Save the budget for Social Security I'm interested in the third question you raised. How can you help building?
01:00:00
Europe through the net. I think we've heard from John about the blogging portal. You mentioned online consultations, any innovative ideas, tech projects that you think could help building Europe through the net. Well, I think there are several aspects.
01:00:20
One is talking again about the EU and talking about what I mentioned earlier, making the EU transparent. But talking again not about the EU, talking from our current work, I think there the net is really a fantastic instrument for living solidarity with people outside the EU in countries like Azerbaijan, like Belarus,
01:00:42
organizing solidarity protests projects. So I always want to stress the difference between that Europe is more than the EU. So for me, it's an instrument of solidarity for people oppressed in countries outside of the EU. But of course, as well, an instrument for making the EU
01:01:02
more transparent as Ask the EU, which is really a fantastic project if you don't know it yet. And in terms of practical projects. Ask the EU is a very concrete project. Have you seen the Wikidata project that's going on? Because if you go to Wikipedia, you will see it's
01:01:23
very different. It has a very different structure depending on which language you're accessing it. So what they're doing over a project of a year, from what I understand, is making sure that the material that's done in Swedish, for instance, is also accessible in other languages, partly through automation. But that's at least a step forward so that there are
01:01:44
more conversations going across country barriers. There's another one I'd like to highlight as well, which is votewatch.eu, which is essentially the EU-level equivalent of They Work For You in the UK, so basically how
01:02:01
members of the European Parliament behave. The problem is there's a lot more work that still needs to be done in that regard. There was also a vote last week when they wanted to have greater openness of the votes in committees in the European Parliament, which was actually voted down in the constitutional affairs committee. So we need to manage to up the pressure on individual MEPs with regard to openness of the votes in the European
01:02:22
Parliament. And also an issue which was touched upon by Helen Derbyshire in her presentation yesterday, which is the openness of the council, which is even more of a severe problem than openness in the European Parliament. So those are things we've got to look at. And the people who run votewatch.eu are very determined, very committed, and they need all the support they can get to try to manage to push a more
01:02:40
kind of political advocacy line for openness, as well as actually the particular software tool. But to go back to the previous point, do they need money, or at least core funding? They've got some foundation. They probably would do. They've got some foundation funding for the work that they're doing. I haven't spoken to them recently about what their current plans are, I'm afraid. So I don't know the answer in detail, I'm afraid.
01:03:02
OK. OK. So additionally to the question, I would like to have some projects that are not existing yet. So ideas that we could invent. We as bloggers, we as activists, we as organizations that are promoting, for example, net
01:03:20
freedoms and other European common topics. So maybe you have ideas on that, too. And then there's another question here. I think what we should do is basically what you said in the
01:03:43
title of the track. If we work more united, and if we sort of join our strengths together. For example, John is doing an excellent job with EU blogging because he concentrates the knowledge together.
01:04:01
And so in one access point, you have access to a lot of different vision that portray what's happening. Now if more people like John would do that, and more people would participate and understand that what's happening in their country needs to be known in the
01:04:21
other countries of Europe, then we can make this transition shorter rather than longer. So I don't think there is the brilliant new idea like we're not here to discover hot water, as we would say. But it's more a matter of being aware that what
01:04:45
happens, as I said before, it also has to do with us. And how much we believe that it's something we should do or not. Also, building on that, I kind of asked myself a simple question when dealing with European Union matters.
01:05:02
Whatever this problem I'm confronted with, how can I solve it online? That's just the starting question for anything. Right, I want to hit Silvio Belasconi, who's turning up at a European Union summit. Right, OK, there's deluge a Twitter wall with anti-Silvio Belasconi tweets and managed to get the experiment ended. I want to do something about gender balance in the European Commission, which no one is talking about.
01:05:20
Right, let's put together a network in order to manage to deal with that. So what we've got to have is more people who care about European Union politics and are just simply willing to say, right, this annoys me. How am I going to build some kind of a project in order to manage to solve that particular issue? And you will find common ground with people who can
01:05:41
build networks of bloggers, networks on Twitter, online petitions, take your pick. It's also vitally important as well, is when you've identified a good person within the system, is to work very closely with those individuals. There are good ones right across the EU institutions. There are some good MEPs.
01:06:00
There are some good ministers in the council. There are plenty of good officials in the commission that are at the lower levels. Build those networks, meet them for a beer, work out the ways and means that you can help them and they can help you. Because for example, good communications I have with some officials from the European Commission mean that
01:06:20
sometimes I get emailed a bit of edgy stuff to work with that the commission itself can't do anything with. Now that's not one particular- Sounds like leaking. Essentially, yeah, yeah. But it's more kind of- What if it leaks? These are the sorts of things that we'd like people to be looking at.
01:06:40
And then importantly, the biggest tool we've got is the European Parliament elections for 2014 at European Union level. So, make demands of political parties. Make demands of candidates. Take for example the ACTA protest. David Martin is the rapporteur in the European Parliament for ACTA. He says he's receiving 500 emails a day about ACTA
01:07:04
at the moment. How many of those are actually getting replies? Can we do some naming and shaming of politicians who never actually at European level ever bother replying to that citizen critique, for example? Some of those sorts of things, because all of Brussels builds up to a kind of-
01:07:21
You might not see it outside of the Brussels circles, but in Brussels anyway. All of Brussels builds up to a kind of crescendo to each European Parliament election every five years. And that process, that kind of lead-up period is already starting now. So, if you can get any European Parliament hook on anything that you're doing, that's your way of managing to kind of leverage
01:07:41
something in the Brussels circles. And also because the new European Commission is appointed just after the European Parliament elections, you can tie those two things together as well. So, don't like the German member of the European Commission, for example, make sure he doesn't get nominated for a second term. That's one that's right for a bit of web campaigning, for example.
01:08:01
And don't forget the impact of maps. If you see how people are using maps and infographics to get information across, first of all, that gets across a lot of language barriers. It puts information into, complex information into an easy to understand context. And if you look at the equivalent of fix my street,
01:08:25
imagine if that was also on a European level, yeah. Not that, okay. Any more questions? Okay, I give the microphone to you. Hello? Yeah, just.
01:08:43
John just mentioned that we have to do something as bloggers and to build up infrastructure for talking about the European idea and to go on. And I just think about what's the key
01:09:05
of the normal national press, for example. Because the press is influencing all the people, the single national people. And they also make some campaigns from one country against other countries.
01:09:23
For example, the German campaign against the Greece people, because sometimes it was said that they don't do anything or don't work or very incredible things. And so I just think perhaps we need an European.
01:09:46
Are you thinking about a platform? No, not a platform, but rules for the European press not to harm the European idea. And not to act for one country against one other country,
01:10:09
European countries. There's certainly laws about hate speech, but I mean. Well, can I say something? I see the point, but coming from a country where each city fights each other on a daily basis,
01:10:26
you can survive that. I mean, people is enough smart to know that press is the press and we all have our opinions and I'm sure that it's not just because the newspaper
01:10:42
says that the Greeks are lazy, that everybody start thinking that. Besides, we all have cheap flights now and we can go there and see for ourselves. But what I take from your point of view is that perhaps, and that's what I was trying to say earlier
01:11:03
at the beginning of this panel, is that we have to build ourself this sense of community, which is also what will build up our immune system to fight each other when press campaigns or media campaigns go on.
01:11:23
And we can only do it if we share information each other and if you have resisted that sort of campaign, it's probably because at the same time, through the web, through friends, through traveling, you have seen Greek people,
01:11:43
you have seen the situation, you've spoken with somebody and you knew that the portrait was a bit biased and truth was probably more complex than that. So that's the only medicine we have is to build our immune system,
01:12:01
getting to know each other better and I think the web can help doing that. And make sure that you also have the same amount of influence that the mainstream media have. But as you pointed out, in some countries, that's equal if not stronger. I just want really to oppose to this idea. I don't want a Europe like that.
01:12:20
It sounds like a really nice Brussels bureaucrats idea. Some press rules, I really don't want such a Europe because that's actually the good thing about Europe that we have the diversity. And coming back to my first point in the discussion, that's actually the point. We need a culture, a demand culture for media freedom, for press freedom and political culture.
01:12:42
But the problem is that in several countries of the EU and outside of the EU, I repeat myself, sorry, but there are negative experiences with democracy and with the EU and we have to build up from the bottom positive experience and we don't need a bureaucrats idea of some common rules
01:13:02
because we have some values on Europe and we have to experience, we have to make this as a common experience but not some common European rules on this. Yeah, well, that's very German. I just want to add that we have these press rules
01:13:23
securely on national basis. So why don't to overcome them? No, we don't. Actually, we have some very progressive, talking about Greece and talking about Germany, we have some very progressive media laws in whole Eastern Europe.
01:13:40
Most of the Eastern media laws and constitution are much more progressive than Western countries. We can learn a lot in theory, I say, from Eastern countries regarding the constitution. Isn't there a problem in Hungary though at the moment? Well, there's a problem. Of course, there's a problem and it will get much worse probably from July
01:14:01
on when the new media law will get into effect so some crucial rules. It's an effect but there will be some crucial rules which will be in effect from July on. Yeah, there is, of course. Okay, couple of more questions. I'd like to know. Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah, I'd like to know how do you think
01:14:22
does the crisis affect our chances to build up a European public sphere because on one side we've seen more and more negative emotions coming up towards certain countries or towards the EU as such but on the other hand, I heard that the crisis even provoked blogs to come up.
01:14:43
So yeah, what do you think about that? Well, I think there is a different perception in Southern Europe and in Northern Europe. I would say in the Southern discourses on Europe due to the crisis got more Europeanized. I would say if I observe or I observed at Eurotopics media debates
01:15:03
but I would say in Northern Europe, talking about very superficial but probably you could say it from your Swedish perspective as well but as far as I see in the Northern sphere and comparing it with the Southern sphere, the Northern media blogosphere discourses weren't affected so much from the crisis
01:15:21
as there weren't so big changes but in Southern Europe, the media debates really changed. I think taking it in a slightly different angle on that, I think the crisis has shown how interdependent we are and it's also shown that trying to solve those problems
01:15:42
of the Eurozone is struck principally among the leaders of Europe's member states at the moment and it's not actually solved necessarily directly at European level. Now, if you look at what's happened in every step in European integration over the years is what you have first of all is some problem which gets solved with some kind of technocratic solution
01:16:01
and thereafter comes the accountability. So at the moment, we might be in that stage where everyone looks like they're fighting each other but if the whole lot holds together and I do believe the Eurozone will hold together and Greece will stay within it simply because the economic scenarios of Greece leaving the Eurozone are that catastrophic for everyone that will focus everyone's minds.
01:16:20
We should reach a stage in perhaps five years from now where we have passed the worst of the economic problems and therefore we can look at the politics and the accountability again and as a result of that, that should be the stage at which we can then actually look to those issues of improving our discourse on our democratic accountability at European Union level. So I see it as a negative kind of,
01:16:40
it looks like things are falling apart, it looks like there's a highly critical situation at the moment but I do think that if you look at those similar sorts of things which have happened in the past, that should be a kind of a passing phase and it should be improving in years to come. There's also of course, Rick and the Pirate Party which is a positive thing in my mind while at the same time, also the rise of far-right movements who also tend to succeed
01:17:00
at times of economic difficulties. Again, if our economies grow once more, you should see a decline once more of those far-right movements. Although judging by the success of Le Pen over the years in France, those right-wing populist movements are probably here to stay at some level but perhaps not quite the level they're at at the moment. I'd like to add to that that I think it's a bit more complicated
01:17:22
than just is this crisis divisive or does it join us more together? I think it does foster some sort of disillusionment perhaps with the leadership in Europe overall as in why we knew this would happen,
01:17:40
why did you bring us into this mess? You can hear that voice pretty much all over Europe. Apart from that, I agree with Christian that there's quite a bigger difference here between Northern Europe and Southern Europe in terms of how much is this crisis on everybody's mind. But what I do see now and I didn't see before is a sense of solidarity between the common people of Europe
01:18:03
as in look what the political leaders 10 years ago caused to all of us. So I'd argue that the divisive effect is more between the average citizens and the political leaders that just pursued their pet project no whole spot
01:18:24
than between the countries and cultures as such because they are all in the same boat after all. Well, I quite agree and I really think although it might sound provocative
01:18:42
that actually this crisis, it might be an opportunity. I think it might be an opportunity because, well, I believe that because the crash of the Eurozone at the moment would probably be a real catastrophe, I would definitely agree with John
01:19:01
that it's not gonna happen, but it's gonna be hard. And people will keep on posing questions and probably we have not even got as bad as it can go, not yet. But all of that will really close accountability afterwards
01:19:21
and also will result in the fact that we will have to build a political consensus and a political union after the economic union, which was probably the worst mistake we have done. I mean, the worst mistake that has happened, at least in my opinion was to make a monitoring union
01:19:44
without any political union whatsoever because the national states are still much more influential in the economic policy than the commission or the European parliament. So to go through all this,
01:20:04
at some stage we will have to build a political union. The next parliament, the next European election will probably be very crucial on that. And still now I was talking with them before lunch, if some of you
01:20:21
has seen the debate in France yesterday, even though it's national election, half of the debate was about Europe. And none of the candidates were saying we are pulling out or we're pulling out of the Euro where they were proposing two different ideas
01:20:41
of the European Union. Now, this is not the stage to debate which one we prefer. That's not the point. The point is that five years ago, it wasn't like that. Five years ago, the national elections in France would have been about an idea for France, not an idea of Europe.
01:21:01
Now, it's mostly about an idea, how do we want Europe? How do we want France in Europe? But there's no question that the main point is what sort of Europe we envisage in five years time. In Italy, it's more or less is what's happening.
01:21:21
Well, Britain is not like that, but we all know the British. But the crisis has caused that because it's proved that we're all very dependent on each other, even from a very small country like Greece, which is rather a small country with probably 10 millions people and a very small economy.
01:21:41
But German banks and French banks and Italian banks are packed with Greek bonds. So whatever happens there is gonna affect us. So that's the reality. We are phrasing it quite dramatically and probably none of us would have wanted to do that. But this big crisis can only represent a new opportunity
01:22:04
because there's no way out rather than go forward. Okay, that's clear. We have time for one more question. Okay, I shall leave over there. You can have a mic around. Thank you. My name is Diekmar Eidolf, I'm just a citizen.
01:22:23
I think we should stop talking about bloggers as opposed to the European institutions. I think both are aspects of the same direction. Bloggers tend to be part of the informed expert public who offer a back channel.
01:22:41
And I fully agree with Alessandra. I think we need to institutionalize back channels to bring it into some constitutional European framework that allows to build Europe with the inclusion of an informed public.
01:23:01
And my question is, are there any initiatives on the European level that are not government funded to really implement these institutional changes? I hear not, but do you think it's a good idea?
01:23:26
But do you think it's a good idea? Is it a bit like what they work for you are doing? Well, you need some of those sorts of things.
01:23:44
I tend to see the problem the other way round, essentially, which is that if the political structures are right, decent communications can come from that. Not, we need to find our ways and means of communicating in order to manage to improve our political structures.
01:24:04
So what are the sorts of things we could theoretically build, right? Okay, well, we've got VoteWatch, which does a decent job but could be improved. But the main improvement that's needed is better structural openness of the EU institutions. We don't need a better VoteWatch. We need a better institution that VoteWatch watches. Right.
01:24:21
We need to have some better openness of the council, but again, we're not lacking the web and the communications tools in that regard. And certainly, I also view it, and this is kind of a delicate issue, I've never worked as a journalist. I come into blogging as someone who's done the EU work for years
01:24:41
and have views about it. So I'm kind of part campaigner, part writer, but I'm not trying to purely report on what's happening. I'm kind of part of some kind of discussion. I've got a page on my blog that says, should you trust this blog? Which basically says, this is the stuff I've worked on, so I should know something about it, so maybe you might be able to trust me.
01:25:02
So I don't know how the hell you kind of make some kind of channel for institutionalizing that. And if anyone did try to kind of institutionalize that, that would kill off maybe some of the stuff that works on the blog. It's also part of the reason why I, apart from on two pages, which are about stuff
01:25:22
which is not directly relevant to the, one is about coffee actually, on my blog, I have advertising on two pages which are buried on my blog, but on the homepage and everything about European Union politics, there is no advertising. It's basically saying, here I am, this is my view on European Union politics, take it or leave it. And I don't get funded by the European Union in order to do it. In fact, I don't get funded by anyone to do it.
01:25:41
So therefore, it's completely straightforward and transparent. Now, if I'm in any way kind of institutionalized in that process, I maybe lose the whole point of what I was doing in the first place. And that's what kind of makes me a little bit nervous. You're no longer authentic. Well, can I only add something because this is true,
01:26:00
but in order for the institution to be more open, I also think they should actually open up, which means one thing are blogs and independent forum, independent vote watch, which is fine and cannot be institutionalized, wouldn't make sense. I agree. But another thing is the European members of parliaments
01:26:22
or the European commission, especially, which is not voted should be more open in accepting comments from the public opinion, even if they're not blogs. I mean, I don't expect the European commissioner, I don't know, I don't expect Nelly Cruz to watch or read every single block in the European countries every day,
01:26:41
because that wouldn't make sense and probably wouldn't be possible, but I would want her and she's actually one of the few that does it to make public consultation on important and crucial issues in which every citizen can post their opinion or parties or association or grassroots organizations.
01:27:02
Some commissioners do, some commissioners don't. In the most crucial areas of the European Union politics, such as the economy, as usual, this is not done or is done in a very slight and flable way, which is not really satisfactory.
01:27:21
I'm not sure whether institutionalizing it is the good way. I wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Perhaps Rick would know better being there. But I think it's something we need in order to build a public sphere. And if it's not done spontaneously by the institutions, perhaps we should do it in a way.
01:27:46
Start posting messages to them, start sending emails as it was done with ACTA and they will eventually listen. Rick, some closing remarks? Yeah, I think there's an important distinction to be made here between a regulated institution
01:28:03
and something that evolves organically and spontaneously. I mean, we already have an institution of European bloggers that alert activists and the public to what's going on in the European Union. But as I interpret the question is, should we regulate some sort of institution like that?
01:28:20
And that's when I become a little bit unnerved, if that's the right word, as blogging is essentially the press, but it's also speech. It's me speaking to whomever's interested. The internet is the press.
01:28:40
It is speech and it is assembly. And frankly, you can't regulate that without hurting it and hurting it a lot. So if you're building some sort of institution, I think you need to recognize that in every attempt to regulate this
01:29:01
will also be an attempt to regulate speech and regulate the free press. So I would much rather have European existing institutions offer data, offer transparency, offer interesting topics to write about than having the same institutions trying to regulate
01:29:21
how we can write about them. Christian, closing remark. I think Rick nearly said the same one, what I wanted to say. I'm skeptical about any new regulations because we have some regulations which aren't applied. And so I don't have to add anything because Rick said what I wanted to say.
01:29:41
Okay, and on that, thank you very much for attending this session. Thank you.