Innovation in Refugee Camps

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Innovation in Refugee Camps
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Refugee camps are often viewed as temporary refuges for people fleeing war and violence. However, due to conflicts and refugee situations becoming ever more protracted, refugee camps also become permanent or semi-permanent homes and have developed into towns and cities of their own in many cases. This session, convened by the German Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ), will look at the economics of refugee camps and highlight examples of innovation in the most unlikely settings.
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yet I'm very happy to add in such a diverse and that was of active effects 1st year in states today and what I find very often is that we add both have petitioned practitioners in the field of that's a refugee camps but on the other hand we also have researchers in the field so and then also and people as we realize molded at different countries and with all different kind of experiences and looking forward and panel on them briefly going to introduce and that people and and explain a little bit but they and what they did regarding the topic that we're talking about today innovation in refugee camps
and so it's not an overall by about and something that I found an interesting so and the next Miyazaki intention is use and the former manager of the separate can't in Jordan 1 quote that I found found from him and he can elaborate on that and maybe later on instead Pharmspresso derogatory meaning on you may be thinking about 8 in a different hen away and then we have and that international and she's a researcher and business activity and informal markets in refugee camps among other things and and some quoted are found from
her as said that refugees decide themselves what they want their camps to look
like but the then we have an allow sentence and founder of rare everything relief and a URI design collaboration of different of stakeholders all in the field of human technique humanitarian aid and from 1 of the papers she road I found a quote saying collaboration design thinking tools can empower the humanitarian sector to identify opportunities for innovation and create a shared vision for more sustainable and efficient 8 and end Aspen at least we have and grace kg and she's a former teacher and Jonas in a refugee camp in Kenya end and what she said was and instead of investing so much of thinking so much about and investing in the refugee camp invest in the capacity of the refugees which meaning in the people I
would like to add my for panelist and to have to pay to give a few and statements and beginning and I would love for a period to start and so around the topic of an innovation in refugee camps we have to change the paradigm completely rethinking refugees as the theme is very paramount to this we see look at refugees as victims as poor little things we have to assess and give charity true and the and that consequence we consider that refugee camps and that's just recall that only 10 per cent of the world's refugees actually living in camps that refugee cameras uh just survival stations where people I kept alive stored away until eventually they go back that sort of thing you the the way of how we look at camps instead of looking at comes as a place where change can take place the new impulses must be set where is actually accessed the New a new life from and opportunities eventually and besides again we need to look at all the populations even in other companies merations and I would also that
they have to say that in fact most slums of this world all refugee camps thank you for the so I management researcher in the angle that I and bring to this is a management perspective and what I'm interested in is that we continue to manage and encourage refugee camps in the same way that we have for the past 40 to 50 years but all the variables have changed cancer no longer tempered spaces as we heard an introduction the average can be of stay campus 17 years became that I study which is the dog refugee camp in Kenya has existed for 24 years and so I think about is what are the opportunities to update the way we manage can refugees of started updating it started innovating building markets and building a city inside the camp the informal schools the informal courts the informal police forces there market you can buy anything you want in a camp on so where does the mentoring a common has that change the role of camp management on and what purchased guessing a lot of those opportunities are here today you and have many months and and in my perspective in in a sense is the perspective of innovation and started a group which works together with humanitarian organizations or social workers on the grounds beneficiaries of the status of the refugees themselves and in development organizations and we try to bring them all together to discuss something that is actually a very high level political discussion to very common ground which is said to design through building tools together and making decisions together in the sense that would empowered to also think decisions and higher together and it has its and challenges of course my perspective and this is from that experience is that refugee camps should remain temporary admission and you know that things happen when people are there is not an excuse for us to not build and the bridges and so set the innovation to the journey of the refugees rather than that 1 stage of the journey on my name's chris kg I actually lived as a refugee in couple months um my family fled to Kenya in 1989 so I lived in Kenya for quite a while my perspective on the refugee situation is that there are tensions between what I refugees and what they need so we find tensions between them I the short term in nature of the interventions that organizations and governments tend to have less is the reality that the refugee camps actually exists for a very long time Kaplan-Meier refugee camp is now about 25 years old and we have a generation that was born in couple that you steal that until now so well we tend to look at refugees as temporary and not our problem in most countries have I like in the example of Kenya we have 3 solutions to refugees which is resettlement repatriation and reintegration very rarely do countries integrate refugees into their communities so in Kenya most of the time well with the money and sell to the news refugees are repatriated to their countries voluntarily order resettles to countries in the West so what happens these days is not much of an investment in the refugees themselves and when we talk about innovation in the county it's usually people will have previous experience is from where they come from so this will generation that was probably born when the refugee camps tactical when the when the parents moved to the refugee camp we have someone who is 25 years old right now that does not have that kind of investment putting them sold what does that person do after this however the been empowered so we need to empower this upcoming generation in now ICT and that means empowering the structures that are already there in terms of education and putting in spaces for creative input from the refugees themselves as opposed to bringing in programs where there is a directed telling you all here I want you to do maybe and not project and this is what I want you to make why don't you give them that space and say OK do what you want to do and allow them to and respond to their needs creatively great thank you so I would like to start so and also our audience has again and common ground
we can start from the all mentioned and different kind of challenge is so maybe and you can take you're 3 challenges each 1 of you and let's see if there's there and I heard some kind of a similar statements that maybe we also have some adversity here that and what are your top 3 and challenges that at refugee camps and people in the refugee camps of facing at the moment we are all about the collective because you don't have to talk about sensory turned all I can hook job market Wegkamp camp because I I came across the border from southern Sudan was 20 thousand South Sudanese and life in the mighty true and we had to build a camp and that can cause called the coma that was the 1st field offices in in a camp which was established in summer 92 with but that's why I would choose to work for you in nature the camp hasn't moved in the sense of changing technology is infrastructure it has grown from 20 thousand 480 thousand people in fact 60 thousand local Tropicana people more less if you want to integrated into the camp because it provided livelihoods to them and I remember when I was there might be true sticking out the can there was nobody there were 3 families living in that area about 60 thousand non refugees living off the cat so I'm arguing that I think we have a little difference that I'm arguing that there is absolutely no reason that account was not developed as a refugee city as a as a settlement it doesn't matter of how long a place that is but you have to apply the rules on and methodologies we have in terms of urban planning development social design and so on and so forth and when his always would you say that that challenges you saw back then and are still same today the challenges and as a
place which was created in 1998 tools it's still there is still functions the same son was trying to fix my son was not 20 20 something fixing the same water systems that it was establishing back in 92 minutes ridiculous so we need to invest from from a moment when the recognized people they somewhere and really and making them through to Rio we'll living spaces no matter what they hopefully that will never disappear but it is it doesn't mean that the city is something bad about of the remainder of the project we call that and 2011 projects that idea the city
of about the use of the huge economies which you should be you actually climbing into into the broader framework of the of the local these things like going to answer that he knew the
RDF and I think there is 1 important distinction that is not necessary to do it all of these conversations that's what kind of refugee camp there talking about word refugees because there's many differences in that of and accounts Yourdon are different in open smaller settlements gonna for example where we are working and what we see here having worked with refugees and they're actually journey is much more additional innovation of planning on their return and so of course nothing changes because back in accounts much better than in our in our villages where things are still destroy additional water infrastructure nodes sanitation so there's a reason for that so when you for example talk about and innovation in a
camp so what would you say what's the innovative part and we were talking about the talking about the resettlement and some that some were added some infrastructure but more maybe also policy and topics so when you talk about innovation what you need if setting to the tightest activities after challenges and are making the major challenge is the switch that needs to happen between when refugees 1st arrived and are vulnerable victims are traumatized her interdermal merged and require immediate assistance to the switch from that kind of temporary victim to the longer
term when people actually state with the situation is a little more complicated when war doesn't understand in a year or 2 for 1 whole countries are destroyed and even war has ended people go back to nothing but I think it that switch that we're not doing which is kind managing cancers if they were temporary after a decade after 2 decades after we all know it's kind of ridiculous and and I think this is where there's an opportunity for innovation the refugees have started innovating right they're the ones who weight every day and who spends 20 years 30 years in the can on the huge markets the annual turnover and dog is around 25 million US dollars on and yet there's cut the challenges like how do you regulate this informal financial market and how do you that refugees have a say in actual aid that's distributed to them in the programs run and how you manage the city how do you relate the camp to the host community but also how to relate refugees back to their countries of origin 1 very concrete example on speaking in working with a lot of business owners and the dog refugee camps they told me I would go back to my home country if I could start transitioning the life I have built for myself in the last 20 years back to Somalia back to wherever they come from but that's not possible to either in the canton your refugee or he decides to leave in your kind of on your own back and forth but we haven't really found a framework for that anything that's really where the opportunities are to innovate and to rethink humanitarian aid
in what points you have would return to return to what some people change we also do not reflect all policies return policies and have perhaps through to do a number of return programs in my life it's supposed to be something positive but even those with missing them up because we're forcing people to return exactly the same place where they came from people changing
the people of organizing people and are not the same anymore if they have lived suddenly was 20 100 thousand people together and those who do not reflecting on on that we that this mistake in Bosnia we didn't have a standard everyone that's that's all that's all documents returned where come from you so really keeping people really from for 20 years exactly the same level of and this is all how everything is going just to say in terms of no innovation that means innovation 1st of all from innovation means to have a totally different look those uh but also means moving away from the whole thinking about the causes of refugee situation has to be limited to an organization's taking care of of people the people so that is used to refer to you
so that you would be so that proper people take care of those with the private sector whether it's and we worked on and draw them a lot with the city of Amsterdam for instance as a partner with real specialized the entities which no much of half the people themselves the the old clubs school-based and your true true play soccer with you really can't
say something along with them of the civilization so and you were also teaching and and in the refugee camps so and because you all of you mentioned that perspective that at the moment a lot of refugee camps of an hour and focusing on and I will call the crisis response when you were saying like OK
somebody comes in is traumatized orbit or whatever and it's pretty obvious what what there to do and but people develop saying people are changing so education is 1 very important aspect not only for children I believe you were
a primary school teacher this land but maybe your thoughts on that and 1 thing is to you and to educate keep educating people and children and 1 thing but what's also happening but all the other ones who uhm might and you'd be able to use that time and no matter if they a students and you university afterwards to actually have a life in a situation to return to carry on 1 of
the things I used to do when I lived in the camp I used to love going to the library but it was very out stated the books will hold some pages were missing something that have to be read books that already gone through because we didn't have an extensive library and the in terms of the students that I was teaching they freeze a lot of challenges last year I went back to the country in August idea volunteered as it does education advocate for this project quality which is the Kenya equi team indication project and there are a lot of interventions have been put in place but 1 of the gaps that kept on and coming up as a theme was not all of the doubts especially having that support to get into the sciences and the technology you would find a student who maybe squad at the plasma physics and they wouldn't an 80 in history or religion and the teacher tells them we need you to take history because that's what to perform better in but what the student is dreaming of being is adopted so if they need that kind of mentorship and support and also an innovation had because the before of the government the government has outlawed having any kind of quality programs so what happens is the schools have well after tivities which 1 of the things that Project Daedalus support what they were doing so there's a school of called couple Fiji secondary schools which has a science class and that they have the sound project that they would like to no implement which uses the waste from the 20 minutes from the people pledging toilets to we generate biogas that's very innovative but what happens during the holiday season when gamma along day and class what do they do with their time during that period where do they go in meat to innovate to be created by themselves that's what's missing and did gender divide of course there needs to be a lot of support for women to be part of the of the science-based subjects so that as they grow they also identify their interests and their mode of free to explore
cancer innovation in the field of field of an education when it comes to primary but also secondary education is 1 thing that I hear and um another 2 and range of and you know education 1 area and wanna tackle is that of course also grownups skin and keep on learning so and you guys are a and we're focusing on and entrepreneurship for example and and maybe you can comment on that what it means to become an entrepreneur and how this can be taught and maybe can can afterwards and comment on and that some people that in Jordan when it was there that your cells working there with the people from 3 D demeanor wording a project in and in the saturate camp and so on and the like in the FabLab and the maker and context in space and for example at and teaching where refugees how to use be printers and 1 of them I think he spent an hour if he's and speaking J and and of was and manufacturing is on a set X so that's also 1 way of training not only children but also and grownups also eager to learn that maybe you can stop at the entrepreneurship part of the sale and how we really duration and how we're doing this training and the ship or
capacities is really to do a lot with the great just as you can build with the organisms that are in the in in place with the host populations that are in place in amongst cattle populations you also see as very very large gendered right in which Gulati innovators that are available for you you know you set of workshop those are mostly and so we're trying to break through some of those barriers and in in its mean when you take an inclusive lenses then is not only gender issues but also a lot of other and divides amongst the population which include religions and handicapped people etc. and so trying to keep the lenses on them in when giving people the space is provided the spaces to create and the capabilities in the sense and you're trying to win you know convinced those of the sense of that the identity of allowed and have spaces create that and to identify themselves but there is a challenge on keeping things running when you leave you so 1 of the things that we've done is to set up a parallel training the trainers use which allows is said to be so you need many fronts of innovation you need not only the moments here they're working with people you need to give a continuity but also bring it to outside partners and bring those ideas about the fact is many of the solutions that have come up with in in the refugees have come up with now are rarely scalable in any way and that's still a challenge so and by engaging with organizations that are on the ground we try to provide them with you know a region-wide how to how to be more responsive to the reference In this to say and no knowledge was going back to the to the
use of 3 camping and draw them which has become an example of how people took the lives of their own ants are the basically maybe was slow very violent means in the beginning takes out the aid agencies basically from doing anything sensible in the become because you don't know who we are and what we
want to do it ourselves so that we designed the space the redesign their homes the redesigned the the way of how we got to the point of the redesigned the way of you cook the basically change the entire entire way of looking at things all the needed was electricity which the stole from the public lighting because we didn't think it was necessary for anybody to have electricity so that just look at and they basically created own make a space that sense with anything that could find recycling to the extent that anything was which the recyclable something else they needed welding machines and you the few tools which the somehow managed to get so didn't wait for anybody in a beautiful example was when the city of Amsterdam wanted to made bicycles um which eventually came 1 and a half years later from there may old bicycles that may on the bikes that made actually also after was discovered that on on on a on a horse that just an engine and it becomes a comfortable don't files so what I'm trying to say here is that I taking really because we have the association refugees equal something as I said before like a disease or something totally enable incapable they have no clue what's going on in the world they they know very well and as the people and use this is what I think is is needed was extremely active then all Buddha use social media that have access to the fact the coming out of societies which partially already have jumped and fool and the next so that sale a centering on Millennium a what you want just the the whatever you want to call it they need actually access to some tools and every coming back to what's the me now with the refugee open where going with uh with having an axis 3 D printers laser cutters and other things we haven't dealt with this too complicated because the Jordanian government is not permitting inside of the camp in our mind to encoding classes so there's a visibly bootcamp going on and in that space in the building of of what people already know and so basically all of that state creating their own their own designs they didn't wait for us to tell them what the needs that they need
to the ways and means to do this and that's that's where we can all work together and it's it's not was my big points it's not giving it's working together and trying to to figure out of how we can all transfer maybe some of the tools and the knowledge we have across so we not only talking about and technological innovation but also self such innovation if you say for example that and the self-organization of a camp can for example be innovation it's not it doesn't have to be do anything with but it's as as as a kind of way how people work together and how they live together again and be having this approach is somebody innovate something for you
uh and um and so that's also with due respect tool to equally former police the aid agencies every aid agency has an innovation part the innovating something for the people that the people themselves in the way that that's that's the point that's the real true innovation that's changing the whole way of there the move away from us and that we are the the which intelligence technology you uh where people and we are transferring something down there for the poor little people think also have the right to the land eventually 21st century that have landed there already they they're living with the consequences of our conflicts you know exactly what's going on is just a question of of of having them you know that axis and to be treated like modeling brings the few
absolutely agree anatomy do have come around ruling them on giving tools giving the the capacities to build things allows for many things to happen overnight in all the settings of refugees but it that doesn't make it easy to improve the health systems in place is like their vision bridges for the local
systems the host countries that have the education system plays the welfare and the health care place in it there is a huge gap between what you can do with well the machine which you can do to have access to the health clinic uh or to get information on family planning or maybe if we come to dinner and effective A. M. and you were
mentioning at the beginning refugee camp like some money brought about 10 % of refugees live in a refugee camp a lot of others live in the cities but if you folks under refugee camp now as a place that's kind of segregated from the rest of you were mentioning like the hosting or welcoming countries and so but what about them innovation this field of them the hosting country interacting with those of the people who came we were staying in the camps know any thoughts on em how we can open up that that link and how to innovate in that field and to me but I think the greatest hits what the you for his any with the involvement in the decision-making together in a lot of hello closing in on the act history and now just building bridges there is actually essential in developing tools capacities to have a discussion on the table and doing together doing it again yes an example so anyone of you who when he tried to open up that an that conversation I mean look look at the end of the year um I mean that this is a typical example of of of the region of the book that has a sort of a million people or something nobody really knows in addition to the local population supervision basically doubled from some of them live in constant time of all the counts and what does the regions need those can actually should become extensions of the cities in the way that's that's the bridges would talk about people them something different the mainstream due to the municipal services and those of the municipal services of a book uh the very weak so knowledge that's looking into how close to to work together on doing something with all the waste of the city of people use to produce 600 metric tons of waste that they know they have 2 thousand 100 tonnes of waste that day but is that of response know is that the room we divide between refugee wastes and other wastes law so it's it's it's really looking into and into an area where there's something more people who may be a different composition of their needs and the needs in terms of housing affordable housing the needs of the whatever the of energy and education health Systems accessed through through to something and then maybe transform and that's where the talking about refugees of migration the coming of and access to opportunities use that as the the trigger for jump ahead and actually improves systems use that as a trigger for true investment from and and then to investment doesn't have to be on a charity we also talking about money invested cooperation all these other things doesn't have to be just a giving a sort of operation so maybe in response to what you're saying I communities that tend to have
fast experienced any type of development or improvement of the Knights Tale when it comes from a humanitarian agency they don't understand what they need to demand from their government Lake Flower in South Sudan as so the was down and people ask what do you think the UN is responsible for and what is the government responsible for the health care and education and other types of development people say no it's a humanitarian agencies that are responsible for that and then the government is responsible for security so that kind of mind-set brings about a situation where if the government can do the bare minimum that's what it's going to do most refugee camps as located in very marginalized areas in coprime what they refugees to leave much better than the host community they actually employ the host community to do domestic work to carry out their food ratios from the distribution centers to their home states sold this that kind of imbalance and what they demand from the government and what they think they you when should be doing for them those are 2 very different kind of but things in their minds so if the population is not sensitized as to what the government is responsible for then it becomes very difficult for development to be coming from the government that's why I in terms of sustainability from the afar interventions in the refugee camp and done in isolation to the host community then that would bring about a more sustainable type my development even when concert closed if our people able to still remain in that area then you can see visible transformation in the capabilities of the populations in in those in the answer to come back the link between host communities in and around the refugee camp I think the 2 layers so we have to think about someone him as the relationship between the refugee camp and the government were talking kind ministry level work department level and then there's the interaction between the refugee camp and the people that immediately live around the camp host community in in the dialog on what's very interesting is that there are no formal borders there's not a like fence or wall around the dog refugee camp actually the talent and a
dog refugee camp are relatively integrated you can move freely as a refugee or non refugee were the report where there's a real borderer is beyond acts as a refugee I cannot move freely in Kenya as a country I cannot travel to Nairobi but actually that the host community benefits massively from the camp in there and the campus is a city we just have to illustrate the dimension restrain a thousand people living in the job refugee camp that's Pittsburgh the West that the size of an eastern France when these are big cities in 1 of most deprived regions of Kenya and and the host communities integrating this can elicit market that's emerging in the camp benefits with around 14 million US dollars in turnover between host community and can't every year now the local people accept that this is kind of the city and its parents are going to go away any time soon but at the government level so if we go to Nairobi the capital on there's no acknowledgment that this cannot walls to be there for the foreseeable future we still plan on an annual cycles in terms of management budgets on refugees can you know sort works we can on property in the formerly Karen businesses so there's really 2 different layers and there are often very contradictory but when we think about the relationship between host country community in refugee camps 1 but not at the beginning of
a community with some something at 300 million dollars a year and so 1 of the poorest areas of Kenya in this case from and the yes it's true the government stops the moment you start building something more durable it stops and remember I was deputy representative in Kenya for a while a list of the building breaks and all of the refugees spent breaks and was forbidden but of course because again um be because the logic but they don't understand when it as an aid agency doing that but and the aid agencies are considered to have an agenda gender tool tool to stay in school and not to go all the way to to stroll amendment can have a good example 20 something years they have been there have been
living there working there nothing has changed so governments from will of course be very suspicious so what I'm arguing for his put the riots people across the table to negotiate a durable solution in the sense
of setting up the durable sustainable settlement which some somehow flows together with the economy of the surroundings which just now by the way and interesting happening in Jordan where the government is moving in the direction of accepting special economic development zones to be established between basically the camp of a barrier the city of my fact which is also heavily impact of as we say by by refugee presence what is this fall is to creating a special economic development zone which creates jobs for anybody and it happens to have a lot of people available because of the refugees but also local people new jobs and what is this was done was done by certainly not unit all UNDP somebody that this is going to be done but investors soon investors to then investors international investors and is going to have some interface hopefully with some of my presentation of trade with the European Union or something that is the way forward and that is what the Minister of Planning of Jordan will understand that we will say yes but it was not say no no no no I don't trust you and I remember having had a discussion with the Minister of Planning reset said I don't trust you aid agencies because you come you have a lot of money in the beginning you do all sorts of things but universe with unsustainable infrastructure with Messier massive social systems which don't match with the systems we have that the government's we have around so we I messed when you when you have no money anymore so putting some across the table who knows what they're talking about I think that's the way forward so images is 1st responders and then let's talk about bandits talk business physically get to end before we open up there and the question round
also and it to the audience so and you have a few minutes to think about and questions and I would like to summarize a little
bit and the different hurdles in various you mention but also the different and areas of in a innovation so I heard a lot that and barriers are in the field of policy and legislation quite often it's not within the camp order the and the knowledge of the people in this case the refugees and we don't know how to to innovate but it's more the barriers that are put in place from all different kind of stakeholders and also all of a let's say a and and opening up the discussion between news also new stakeholders and um maybe rethinking the whole at that 8 system as it is today so it seems a bit more like system innovation and then so much of like we need to go and find a new way
of installing pipes for example but something and I would I would like to ask before and at the before open their and and the question is is innovation is quite often linked with as something connected to an Internet network technology so 1 of pressure from my side and would you say that Internet has become a necessity and as I would add 6 and that under different experiences that you made and house there and connectivity for example in the access to telecommunication in the different and areas where you worked and
variance stop about 1 2013 in this artery CABG runs uh secretary John Kerry came uh we were still discussing the quality of water and and and stuff like this but a year later of the big issue and live in the US litigation lawyer new for the was visiting the camp uh was the speed of Internet and it was really a nuisance because it was either not available to slow also connectivity became a major issue for people because were that were trading so it was 1 thing communication obviously is another 1 of them and many more besides social media and of course but 1 of many more using using them in new technologies if you want to educate themselves have access to all the into the many tools we have today in terms of online learning and so on so we really
was we moved out of the of the 10 to the and obtain a distribution it was clear that was the real challenge and people wanted that and this this is now we here we have time and you treat us like like animals because we want we mean a part of this this 21st century I mean I very much agree with that last statement and go but the question in the when we talk about beneficiaries straight we don't talk about people and and so maybe a little controversial here is really that will is us are we looking at innovation here are people just being people more refugees just doing what any of us would do as well if we sat around a camp for 2
decades when we also phone being able to call our cousins and maybe parents in another country when we also just 1 on the part of the 21st century and I think there's there's kind because we think of refugees on you know is is not being people reattach all these assumptions to what a refugee as we're surprised when people don't just sit around as victims but actually go out and do stuff and change things and challenge the system that determines what they're supposed to be eating every single day no guess I think you know as you said there's a lot of system innovation is an opportunity for system innovation but really were seeing is people being people the 21st century and we can call that innovation empowerment like we can slap on a label that I think effectively what it really is and I think like understanding that helps to recognize the opportunities that lie in something like that and there's 1 were created here of course is then you to add definitely true Internet although not 1 of them is not the only asset that you need to consider is very important as it is absolutely critical infrastructure and does create a lot of this constrains around the definition of a free of of refugee which work is where I think innovation should also have an and this redefined with the reference and what does that mean what this status means again we not just change that in view of what you say you know this is just people everybody and those are the same as yesterday in your panel we show that and you know apps for refugees are not really know what we're penetrates the vast apps for people right at for people that are mobile that want to keep the mobile still I do think it does help to break down and this variation and to create a new definition of what structures yeah and in the case of a I would see to bring in
infrastructure that and level where it would be highly impactful that requires a lot of resources a lot of money and a lot of commitment now why in relation to what to them was referring to some I wanted to bring in this whole idea of water is an ecosystem and what
is the a more important because system I would say like in the case of the incoming policy in Kenya coprime array now has their 180 thousand people as a result of people who located in other areas of Kenya refugees they will move to from the the explaination was there was environmental degradation in those other areas but when we look at the environment we tend to want to save and the ecosystem that has the green trees the grass and everything but cockamamie itself is another ecosystem it's quite fragile so to bring all those people into that small space and strain those resources that is not development friendly soul creation of of other zones where people can call and contribute and developed and put to less strain on the the areas where they settle in that's very important and that right now we have a on a university branch that has been established in couple moments in the movie really had their graduation that class graduated in 2030 and some of them I will and sorry in 2015 much so 2016 much this year and there I wanted some of them and it had an impact on them so it's bringing the resources to the people also right now but in the long term what kind of a plan it would be important to have people taken to where the resources while so there's going to be a push and a pull factor in building up in both areas and opinion once a common but I'm sure and and get a lot of you guys and man might also have questions for you can then put in your comment so
and anyone else anyone out there who wants to and gather as a person to any 1 of the Palace on what we've discussed so far the
gricean hands or yet and there's a lady that the long bond here baby can stand up please an O. M. G. Amin getting at so my question comes from the area how you facilitate
like this bridging of the gap and money you attended talking about of k for 1 there is like the system innovation of and also people being people and what I'm interested in and have observations you won't get the panelists where people were like relating to that refugees and the host communities relating to each other like in which moments that happened and how 1 can facilitate that the how do you have really good question
I think the the link here after the link between the host communities and people in the camps and like how you can facilitate that that's happening every day on a massive scale already any vegetable Stanbol by their own
vegetables from someone in the host community right like any goods that come into the camp . 8 items that are being sold on come from those community in some way so there's huge cut informal channels of supply and demand and back and forth I think the real question is but it's all legal and elastin most most camps on to kind of the largest extent how do you formalize that like how do you regulate something that's really illegal without kind a challenging the whole on system of care management and having the opportunity is really like why don't we just let refugees decide how they wanna live in their homes meaning in their camp so I think 1 1 way forward onto the intersystem innovation would be to really create formal channels for refugees to farm partake in planning partake in management on a higher level than they currently do yeah
this is a long as you don't treat them uh the refugees as something get dropped from from heaven and then suddenly in the middle of print as as long as the mainstream as long as you will you allow people to have the the same normal and quote unquote systems as the people around you have no difference after connectivity which which goes whether it's through sports whether it's the business which is a very very important aspect from trading as this very common as as 1 of the the points and ensure again and in fact what has been a lot of other action of intermarriages so there's a lot of this happening so as such that that grows together very naturally but again it's quite often ourselves who would actually prevent people from being treated like others and that's my comment from the before because we're treating the these refugee camps as something every everybody gets everything for
free so it starts with that mean 50 meters outside you have to pay venture for which was of the 4 you what it's really difficult to get very different for free so when we try to introduce the concept of you pay for your electricity given suggested to put in smart meters so that people could actually buy credited with of spot ads and and other things 1st of all it was understood by the aid agencies uh precipitates of refugees the campaign was a but also there are hundreds of thousands of people to also pay for the so this is why they should be able to pay in the subsidized once when needed but that was not understood to be a creating an artificial variables at any moment in which between us and and and people which simply because the refugees and that's that's what we have to remove a way of computing hold them accountable from from the 1 Cervantes another questions up front and then the madam insulin read and
and I live in the spot just across the road from the refugee camp have some firsthand experiences with some
teaching and German and also what it is like to on well as a a host community member to come into the refugee camp so 1st of all and I think there's a real bad how our perception of the popular perception of refugees um because I the and trying to fundraise for projects on the campaign so obviously on use images of refugees that are it we all know what I'm talking about it said it's not an image which is related to the reality of the refugees as you say they use mobile phones they they're not in any way not any different than than we are so you can an you questions or market here that while I was wondering if if we talk about innovation if we have to rethink to the way we are campaigning and tone so here what would do it you can you hand the
microphone and for our last question and run the place the 11 and sort the uh before my question
just like Forward nobbled uh can call them condemn the us it's like a a scene and account for and it's a very good example air for how that the Fiji camp it's a good thing is like a life process so in the fifties this gambit so a lot of Palestinian people they decide to now they are in the Master this ought to be like a key we don't live here so it starts from end and in the nineties and 2 thousand it became the biggest neighborhood in the Moscow's and like its value I even there's a lot to see that the living in the count it became very good city the convexity and yet my question as to why Europe like any can widen the goal lit the can here develop all to be uh stages to be a city wide it like in cabs with security and food and controlling thank you can anyone answer that
you think that this is again the the that the last if you talk about Germany all of that is that the question was ever wireless and setting up camps in the way we do meaning like having someone providing infinite having security why do we created a special place in Europe all and 1st of all I think to your point on on jumbled I mean it's it's a perfect example for the many settlements the world where the use of the Afghan citizens in Pakistan uh or whether it's in the western Sahara many many places camps have developed and transformed into into more permanent settlements the new competencies difference however just a very interesting point and as we were working with the city of Amsterdam's city planners looking and comparing of how those settlements have evolved and how indicates that we can was evolving we discovered that there are then you can still see today in the Palestinian camps the way of how the 1st tends a pitch up and that in terms of city planning makes no sense so these are in fact settlements which are very ineffective for the talk about infrastructure of things went basic principles of city planning have never been applied this is where city unintelligible why don't we do this here in Europe because in Europe we have frankly speaking no problem with refugees because we only got a million or so so what's the problem 1 so so in that sense we don't need all we shouldn't need to set up in the camps and people and anyway the idea is that people live amongst the population and the big it's more into the questions of modern planning avoiding while avoiding any sort of ethnic neighborhoods and things like that this is a totally different uh bold and but when you have suddenly a million people in northern Iraq and somewhere yes you will and end up in setting up camps as new settlements and this is what I do is I argue the moment accomplishments of new settlements as by the way Serious than for the Iraqi refugees when came through this area with thousands and thousands of apartments built from OK thank you very much so and I would like to ask and this a
person station who is and from GS that to summarize what we've talked about and Zaphod and sure if anyone else has any questions the panelists there will be here after words and um 1 let's take and hints of and it would which was mentioned before the conference in the 31st of May and ICT for refugees hoaxing very much on the technological part and a today also and happening is the roof which account which is a little bit of a sub conference and attracts here so if you want to interact also a little bit more but those people who but we're we're just talking about and may be asking the questions that only the experts but also those people were affected by it then I highly recommend that and that you go there and this approach trees the can have them with the food thank you very much and I think it's a great pleasure for me to say that there was a lot of agreement and little control would see here on the panel sold for a moderator I think the other very wrong-footed thing that I'll put this happens I I've followed 1st of all very interesting what Mrs. boredom answered at the beginning that Germany has a very special role in all refugee
questions because we have a special memory off refugee crises and that Germany has been responsible in the last century for tools of the re you which refugee crisis after the 1st world war and after the 2nd World War and perhaps this is also 1 of the explanations why did that the German government takes no stance toward so refugees slightly different from what other other governments to yeah I
observed a very strong agreement here on the panel that we are observing a change of paradigm the change of paradigm from considering refugees as helpless beneficiaries through the persons to individuals bots though it was not said so explicitly this is a change of paradigm in which panels cities and which may be used see but what aid agencies don't really understand to the necessary extent and the activities of the and the actions of many aid agencies still follow the old role of treating the the people rather as beneficiaries and not as people not as people who want to create their own environment who are innovative way f ideas and that the role of freight aid agencies should much rather be helping the refugees to do what they want and not the implemented execute their plants actually what I would very much like to add that the same attitude of treating refugees rather as beneficiaries also can be strongly observed in Germany I read recently in the neighboring tones of where I live that on Monday the group of 550 refugees were expected and some very active citizens were working throughout the weekend to have everything prepared when the refugees arrived and I thought Why do you commute for them and why don't you give the arriving refugees the chance to prepare their own beds to prepare their own spaces and so I think that we are not only talking about all the new attitudes in the new the new these countries for instance of but also in our own country the word there was 1 controversy and have found it a very interesting 1 of with regard to the the question should be rather think of converting refugee camps the into permanent Dulcinea permanent settlements in the future or is it also or is it also very of a confortable concepts for governments in order not to prepare for uh the returning after refugees into their own countries not to look into the uh spaces where they came from and not to invest into the original villages I think this is a very interesting controversy vol when we talk about different refugee camps I think of an we would find a different solution for each of the counts and what we didn't talk a lot about is so what could be due to help refugees to enable refugees to create their own uh productive environment to create workspaces in the aluminum cans we talked a little bit about education we talked their ridiculous about health and I think especially since we are here in the Republic up for all these 3 in the sectors of health education and creation of employment review digital approaches should be a much stronger role in the in the operating right now and I think also the German Development cooperation still learning after right at the beginning to clear for good water and good food and could shelter now to improve connectivity and see what is really the option and the opportunities to work through you digitalization tool and a with the refugees to improve the situation thank you very much I found it a very enlightening and interesting discussion thank you hi my some some very last words um from from from us from the ministry and when I was preparing an my words I wanted you to go out of this room and and to have actually 2 things in mind first one the Federal Ministry of Economic oppression and development takes a refugee crisis very very seriously and the 2nd 1 is we believe in ICT and innovation to ease the repercussions of this crisis but there's 1 thing and they're learning a panel that I find so important so that really like to say that at the end is but Killian said as I think what can we do as as the audience what can you do use your check skills can engage get involved talk to the NGO was or as you do I work in you neighborhood talk to us but is super important I believe that we need this mind to change as killing and fats and we have to stop seeing refugees as victims I'm not as facts even worse could see them as innovators change agents as development workers so I thank you all very much for this panel talk to us and our Republican thank you very much down and