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The Good, the Bad and the Zero

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my name is 38 employment policy adviser and I here before wonderful people on a panel of view if 1 color his research and policy manager the richest Travis from just the have could sad and by she's a cofounder and minutes of iPhone happens about but the yeah and somebody she's an independent policy advisers researcher and she used to refer I hope research in Kenya and the have Kathleen beggars she's independent policy of twice as well and she currently works for 2 the partners digital the so before we dive deep into our topic I like to start of shot over a few of state of your rating and neutrality around the world and ask all for few what's the state of fear reading in your home country today at the but when I want to start yeah well who will take
the final decision to stop them come so as studies have shown that 0 rating is 1 of the more popular approaches to actually um accessing Kenya so of the last affordable Internet did a study of 8 countries in the developing world and of all 8 so for in Africa and 4 in Latin of 2 in Latin America and Southeast Asia of those and can have the highest 0 reading models now the thing about it I was particularly interested interesting is that it's actually quite a normalized as a as a means of getting access so you know a big popular social networks that old media should even backtrack does anyone not know what theory to his new topic but I write as he approaches so the idea being somebody other than the customer is going to pay for your axis is going to be for the axis of service as in this case you find it's mostly social networks that uh zero-rated so you have to date but programs solar bundles that kind of arrangement that allows you to excessive maybe Facebook Twitter um Juno Instagram what's up those are usually bundled together so that kind of access is at almost no cost or even if you buy bundles in you experiment the expire you can still access the services of the so that's the state at 1 of the more popular from access points for us the thinking I said speaking for the EU not exactly country but still the as you're writing will be regulated so on EU level and the status quo is that it is not currently clear what the status is so we have a regulation on net neutrality which just entered into force this Saturday I in in that some say could be integrated that derating is bands and something that maybe in case by case it could be legal so the process that we currently facing is that the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communication which we call barracked which is 28 regulators national regulators meet and decide on the guidelines on how to implement that regulation the regulation is directly applicable in all 28 Member States of the European Union and derating is 1 of the main things that we need to figure out how to deal with arm there is some precedent in European Member State countries like the Netherlands and Slovenia there's 0 grading is already banned so we're hoping that these country of will also post for it a ban on it for a range of reasons we're going into the reasons for that later yeah the the yeah it's up to you live the the the the case is very special because it's the 1st country in the world the connective in a chancellor so you expect that the ratings services would be banned outright
and the truth is that they are they their perfect prohibited by law but at the same time while we saw that regulate so it provided a statement saying that the telcos were not allowed to go to publicize the 0 at the services that this still system and that they are normalized and actually people do not exchange the phone numbers anymore they exchange their what's of numbers on but still it it's something very special because even though you saw the statement in the you solve the regulators very explicitly banning zero-rated services uh up about Tyson and still those services success and actually 1 of the most recent tokens to come into the market expanded the offer of curative services to Instagram and synaptic aside from Twitter Facebook and the what's up at but at the same time while we do not see that this is being enforced and that it results low in even though it could be enforced at the same time the regulator 1 point set of Wikipedia 0 would be allowed so 0 it's services are bound but they still exists and we can be as the supports set but it's not operates and so it's a very interesting case of the law meaning practically nothing the day
of and out of Canada hazard to say that you're reading is not being in my country native shattered is even worse thing it all the time and you don't you get cat and affection center and this is why this because of of women access sees you know the intended a fire mobile device so mostly smartphones and and you'll find that for for most people they've is the
1st way to introduce to the internet or what we call the Internet is what have this is because we know what obtained through it was very popular using very very low band with even paid for and I am 1 of the biggest telecommunications companies just what you can it got wind of that and they didn't begin to create what are called bundles so most of the internet access in my country's more about and is through you know what I called bundles where they allow you to get you know banded that allows you to access just what's up on the or Bentley that allows you just to access Facebook on the interest will extend then with that allows you to access of parenting only for very small the for the 10 year period and those are extremely popular because I always like to joke and say because above and also be used to bound when it comes to simple things like food and the way that they stay geographical location of the cases which are called the locations where you have high density you know high densities of establishments for state and people generic tend to buy Willie as much food is the mean need for that day so the old guy you know a bundle of festivals and by a little portion of cooking well although by Israel portion of material and that's enough for that day and that is a way of life so when it extends to Internet access can get a bundle for a very small amount no 1 has problems with that if if anything the only people who may have issues With this intelligence you're reading are start ups and which will probably take about it a bit later on in mitochondria that up with your policy makers did that the patterns is to say look to the west being what you issue sort essentially isn't that is where we are these little no policy no legislation against it and on the terms of the exhilarating proper of websites having just to come to mind and firstly that you know those have books and the you know the places we can actually an online so quisiera exhilarated by the biggest nature provided cheesy can and I think that may sound like a good move because for education but other interesting features and the other sites that is popularly of known all people aware of that is generated is in sight his called on why don't you do the w now concluded the short story about how light came about the which has about 60 % of you know and the mobile it and it is a provides 60 % of the largest markets that aired online or in the colonists platform just called tonight Tonight Show a word that means by testing later sealed off the W and when the introduced it into Zimbabwe it was zero-rated and it was widely touted as a free place to axis it did last week we do know he care cut it coming in the pull down site and the other July of 2015 and the dot pattern was that you know the desert Rain that similar simple state as similar space of equal missed the but patterns as someone who actually did that because we do want to fight you don't compete with the equally the feeling was sent the they already have you know
and mobile users and they themselves want to run is that and it introduces generated what about all of these guys have been working on a long and and essentially the actually been came back on line that site and the reason it should actually in November 2015 and called on like that it's to the related OK great so it seems like a legal framework is like different most of the countries
but still 0 the products that are out there used to but using what kind of implications of an are the most notable regarding theoretic products like both positive and negative ones for example for exit information but also for start ups and in which yeah yeah that when we've ways OK so well at the end of the day when it's good or bad bad thing well and that's what happens in in many pens that that now we don't have enough we suggest about the implications could a pattern that
was so a lot of what we're talking about a speculative and really about um trying to cobble especially the bad for it happens you trying to mitigate before the fact that I'm for instance with having a your USB western social media platforms being zero-rated has it must convey a message to start ups a very strong when I haven't inherited except for the same example of too many of our local options being spirited now with 3 basics entering the market that's the facebook for Internet of or platform they are trying to kill us the keep keep us so to speak to bring in more and look call the partners into this site so yeah it really comes down to how we want to view it the good for the actors is yes is some intent and Anderson is exactly what is a concise saying for people on the ground is like you or I get to have I get to talk to my family again to do this to the other so what does it matter you know and connected so for them that could be a good and it's something we have to factor in this conversation for the telcos all the people of ice piece of Internet service providers who are providing the zero-rated services most often not an especially in Africa it's been found it's always the 2nd entrance to market was trying to find a network effect so they they think they will have more people like a you know a joined-up platforms by using this as a way to get more people just by result of being in the note i so that could be a good for them but the bad is we are now sitting at a situation where say I this is an election situation and access to some of the more popular platforms for access and for communication access to information on zero-rated rated on this 1 level when a telco or a is told to take that down the say that is blocked how 1 of the other forms of people to Kontkanen communicate trait so the alternate the question then becomes if accessing this 5 see what's please book um and other types is we your zero-rated so with at no cost to the user but if doors of Loxley these How else in the connect the World Health legal what that cost will be even wants to go online if those are not available that's when we started venturing into the bad and the potentially Atkins and so what we see here is that we're talking about somebody somewhere having so much power about what constitutes what we can access at no cost and is the conversation they would have to have still acknowledging that for some people this thing where we have some access all good and connected to my family my friends digging myself is imposing them what's the 1 how long has the same and I
feel like this there's a lot of layers to this question and derating often gets conflated with a lot of issues so there's the set that Wikipedia's 0 for instance there was that except in the and all the difference is that the 1 single Service Act
states that 1 that that gets zero-rated where's the bundle that happens with basics for instance in Africa in a Asia think they're like in 20 5 countries now so that the bundle access and they pretend to be the internet because there's more than this 1 happen it's also not a and that's on top of your data that you already have but it's the 1st entry which creates a completely different set of trout problems and I think that it is also something that we need to be aware of it and it might not be that discussion that we usually have within the European Union is usually 0 rating would not be you 1st entry point to the internet but it's something that comes on top of the data URI have so what we usually discussing is that our data can get lower and lower and lower because they want us to use particular services so the computer competition aspect but at the same time there's companies especially huge US-based once they're also not acting alone but they'll using competitive on patterns in the countries where the partner with because they always need in speed to partner with the cannot just offer their services without there and then the other thing that when we're talking from the European level is there's a lot of development aid money going into questions like right to access and then if there's a certain appeal of like I remember in a research project that we've done last year we talked to the South African trust fund which is called for in literacy trusts and their aim is to basically get people to read and to write provide books and that's really a public interest educational and non-profit service and all they wanna do is make sure that people are in a position to even read because what we use is the Internet that if you not been able to read like you need that information so it's really from a development perspective literacy very important that's the only way to innovate and to actually be creative and cultural the diver so there is a huge appeal to that and there's your rated on free basics in South Africa there are also partnering with local projects on which provide data Wi-Fi data for free and their data users is never easy I'm actually calculated against that data capture and I get it from their point of view because it's not a digital divide its information but at the same time if you use it with them where do you draw the line and from a human rights perspective that might sound like very idealistic but ultimately long-term goal for me my perspective I would say that still tricky even though I totally understand that it's very important but like that case-by-case judgment which a lot of people advocating for is just going to be like a slippery slope and I see a lot of gender so that yeah and I find it very interesting that you speak about
the case by case because even even in if we speak about Wikipedia's serial weekend we can still discussed which of the criteria under which some services might be allowed to be 0 it's not uh we can talk about that a bit later but in terms of the consequences and whether they're good or bad it's true that some people over many people will uh
will value very highly to be able to use that and services without having to pay extra for them while they take up for getting lower and lower and while they pretty much using the spectrum also true of mimesis gussets against you have to take advantage of viscosity of so this force custody to provide certain services and got people to use some and not others of In the Latin American context is very specifically in also occurring some of the concerns about the African countries but that some of the biggest issues that we have is related to access to the Internet and through the use of access events internet especially considering some limitations in our infrastructure the me cations infrastructure and how it has not been of taken as a task by the states and it's all mostly given a successful private actors and and in that sense that we're pretty much getting locked in by certain services because those are the ones that will provide and other than that so we barely have any access is very little instances of public access even though they are still gets invariant sets in big cities and not in the far away places so to have these services into that have the possibility to access the internet for some people might be OK but the thing is that we speak about especially in the digital rights all about the potential of the Internet and we are not so seeing that's are being developed when people know about do something so we what the friends say but not really able to talk back up to a broader audience so even though was still a lack in terms of evidence of that but we can still identify some of the risks that we identify as that
yeah the logic was all the things in the qualities of originators and see for me that we read at the cities that I think there's
more there's more harm than good in may view from from the reading and is a popular song just forgotten saying it that the the 1st cut the deepest and that I give you a moment think so I really feel if you don't take
it pays to actually get people to access and a few sites in line at the Intel with because they don't form you know in a sense of what the Internet is this had fought against the moment to begin to delete out into shit out in in small portions so for me the feeling is I'm on that the places we need to really good stuff like with these health or probably education of concern but my feeling is if you're going be out to they meet all the demands will give them the full 1 so those are my initial thoughts in in alright but your arguments and think it is 0 well
on I'm sure you read about the case in Angola variances surety of of us misused by certain people how do
you are how use example of what does it mean for others here the products and how
we are going to be with them and held very strongly remain local voice jump on that because a lot of these it's people porting it for what we wanted it to be and I have softer than coolant for that so the context out Wikipedia gives Wikipedias 0 through 1 of the leading tokens and there's also Facebook 0 and available now those will mostly and what happens is your rate factors mostly text-heavy awarded the angle and 1 from the internet the wanted visuals the wanted images they wanted videos so what do they do they find ways to hide to put links to the images in the videos that they want to watch in Wikipedia articles and then share of closed phase 2 of these groups I mean like other animals like Haskell snowplow you Lieutenant thinking about what that looks Wikipedia quagmire right so they do they keep taking the the sites down to the keep taking the speech is done by then have to the do good intentions you were doing the poor people some internet way so what do you do n the girls group so very closely recollect that really tightly regulated so the only elites very bounded becomes the community aspect now what that tells us is at the end of the day yes you can supply because you know we are coming from whenever we're coming over the coming from where they're coming to save the world from itself and giving them a version of the Internet because some is better than none but the market is pushing back and saying will take use that we go making our own and eventually that at the end of the day this is not a viable option and for me that is a powerful example of the fact that there's no 1 this this notion of giving people some little bit is actually condescending and it speaks to the development troops that have not been addressed in other circles circuit with the letter water was another occasionally some is better than none of this additional low beaten pieces but the Internet is that last final thing and love but is that right to push back in the guise of these look up to the angle of 1 good job I was like often I want to like the more innovative stating that and hacking the tools and having an absolute fantastic there was another example i'm just gonna steal it from 1 tends to demonstrate you dimension of rule 1 but there was a also the code in the review basically road and a tool that use face that 0 and made it possible to then jump to other news sites because they were incorporated as well on the business you also please keep doing that I can just that is that the only way to actually also bring it home that this is about human rights and freedom of expression freedom of speech is it you can't do that if it is being used out little pieces in like ninja usually says it's like with the water example well we give you wanted but with notable or not different western and will discuss that once everyone has already drank in the blue 1 and and that's just not where we want to go on as much as that might be appealing from a public service perspective or from education perspective it sets precedence which we might not be able to fight back because altogether Menzel losing control over the corporate interests that drives that innovation factor on the going forward
that's part of why the example that the 1st of the but that the idea that we have this little Internet or no Internet sites to write the code by dichotomy which is false that that it's either non although it's enough to this but we should expect more than that especially in nowadays said that the internet so much used for video content for instance if you want to see and and also on the rate of final or on youtube that was on Republicans here that you could expect to
do that but then if you have like a very low data capture of you who do not have this your at that services that allow you to see that you are limited in the kind of constants that you will be able to find out the can contribute be having access to or the kind of constant that you'd be able to produce but that the arguments about having a little or having known as a political arguments we definitely need to fight back but yeah
this a of alright and I really think of it as a so this is so apart from taking uh theory products you know of any unit and words of city would say is that it's useful infuriated why do you think that generalization of the NEC products and how how do we go on how can we draw a line between so things for my book OK because it's going to break the mold that is that from this a for 1 OK and had a good happen 2nd half of the 1st lunar point out the what's up with that found that obviously for
many people it's extremely user-friendly might my money's 1590 1060 the all things being equal and down here North kids for the intended for the rest of it but she doesn't want pictures affecting child and just not pay that much for the 10 if you look for the herself we trying to pay for bandwidth but as long as she's able to actually add excess what's up and I find that it's a it's a very easy path for many people wines and rural areas that consume was people actually leaving the right is more people were role than and event the same way they caught on to mobile mind is the same way that this is quot on to you know and things like like what's up so it matters that well if we just needed to choose 1 out and make that 1 related for life I'd make it went up because I feel that is opportunity to hack in 1 of the things particularly because of the way that you can communicate to it it can be used to in terms of you know um elections for example as a way of communicating it can be used as an early warning system you know you can lead to the a give take gift and images you can send video and more recently now you can put documents on to it so if if I had a choice on that would be my name in 1 place in India and later met this guy I disagree
very strongly with my comrades here of the problem is white matter not see a local start-up in Zimbabwe that would do the same thing which seems so this well
this and I think for me here it becomes very tricky because this is still a western company now owned by another Facebook that we saying yes has reached TT absolutely but the problem with that is yes it's an ideal the pragmatic approach but why Devon or somebody else the problem of case by case is that I actually sold climbers the with the ideas measures erated apps is also doing good I mean feasible set up make absolutely nothing from the adds to people right so everyone it's that's the benchmark that they're doing some good a lot of people were trying to 0 their services that's exactly what Wikipedia says because a lot of profit how can there be a bad thing how it is that I think for me that thing is it does vary from our whole pusher like a bit-rate equal bitrates low-bit-rate everybody accesses the Internet personal speeds but it's a full and the Internet or we don't go down that path because all gets to decide who's the do-gooder and who isn't that entering dangerous territory we asking governments to regulate and that's asking government to the you know to basically facilitates the interests so if I'm better at lobbying in you know better lobbying and we're not telling governments or regional bodies all others to decide between you and I will guess eviscerated or any other entity we're entering a dangerous territory the story but in but in such
a that but I want to go back to a few examples of the last things and then mention especially like the the lobbying capabilities at to the example of going back I think that the announcement that Wikipedia 0 would be accepted that again it's it's it's not operating to but but that it could be accepted was after a meeting between the representatives of the Wikimedia Foundation and the regulator of the under secretary of telecommunications so it was pretty much the results of the meeting that was highly publicized um but then you see those levels like OK they met with the regulator of the regulator is a very high nice is very high its support for week from so of course they would say that it could be applied of so after the question with which would be the criteria to allow that but the lobbying capabilities even if it's 1 innocent meeting go higher and higher in the case of Latin America was a several presidents of whole countries as shaking hands with my sort of we saw the president of the wearing the jacket of Facebook at some point so you can see the picture on the so when you see that kind of hand shaking up on high levels uh necessarily know that the decision of which services will be 0 right will be allowed to be provided for free and therefore making every other 1 infinitely more expensive there is a decision that is used in the end not necessarily dedicated through regulations book highly politicized so this is not the answer is acting like it's like familiarize
perspective I don't really see how to actually axis that because there's always implications of what is threatening how that's impinging on the what's an example I would say like a go free software and you something that actually properly-encrypted units go for signal but then like what makes like what tells us that there's going to be better at that than also needs to be zero-rated like it's it's a circle that we can't actually ever break if we make that decision 1 so that case by case is very very difficult I think like in the African context for instance where you ask companies come in that is that the regulator in that part in the buffering thing in a position to decide on whether a foreign company get in or simply make that position on the international contacts and then only national product get the array I just think like again that even the case-by-case apart from it being super resource intense like I mean who who's gonna sit down and assess all those apps and make sure that there's a proper analysis that also takes quite a bit of administrative work which I'm not sure every government has made this the nor do we want that exactly there's other things that they should be more worried about and that the reference year rating why not just call it equal weighting and like just have a data cat that's used for these apps for everything and I get to choose what I wanted to say that I don't have to do with his friends and I use what's up because I find it super 9th so like give me my data and I I signal but that's just I think a lot easier and also with the Indian case it's very important that we don't have anyone who can actually show the success of India with us but they actually mention that the thing that is OK and that they can exactly as the case is equal rating like yes if there's data for everyone you want to write that as nice the fine but anything that discriminatory and it always is if you we 0 8 1 so this is not acceptable and I think that's a super great way forward and I can I can only
hope that other countries will follow suit assume that put on a come back and he faced by that time out of this difficult place you read about how it happened in the bubble wouldn't end up finding things like what time is not because the off-site interest this really does follow the trend goes through asking ourselves who gets to decide if some people the desolate people we're going in the same look we see lawyer going we see a vision where come in with you and we make a bit of mind you know what we are doing it and frankly this is typical present was really asking about case by case you would not mind paying this you know I made painful what a bundle instead of actually getting equality in that case however I'm still with we few friends when it comes to the equality that a good starting point but I'm saying in places where the operators have seen that people should you are making great use of a particular act and they offer it as a as a as a product that can can help people and a lot cost and probably what you call would have been i see i see why not no wondering if you're looking for 1 of the things that I I think I pay for
all of the time the effect that in the case of my my country you and all of those bonds did to become because it's always with people way taking a traffic to arm and the little just wanted so they made it easy for us but our events to we few when it comes to equality because I believe that the no argument with you know I'm telcos is to say we've invested so much infrastructure you kind of coming here and say we can't this place and if they're willing to pay we need to get the car system into something like that I still feel you know equality if this is the same across the board only also with itself was that the riesling model and hoping something sticks was intended for
instance the same regulator that 0 rates Facebook and what's out there is trying to have been regulated avoid her voice over IP regulated so it's a very
schizophrenic thing at the end of the day could cite the thing is in water for 6 like there's a middle prison they will have so much in by we all of data and what what what the alternative if I wanted if I want to and that's the only option use waste Michael and at what cost and this is where the problem where at we look good on that island yes I've had very many government officials say that I mean what does it matter but what choice here if I have to opt out what do I want to show how is it bad that they start sending Jevons again smoke signals you know that that's that's where nothing for me becomes very political and very worrying even if it is that might factor yes we'll use what level menial as usual except that he and I think she's only present at this conference I don't doesn't use what I have what the choice factor yeah I think here we still talk about freedoms and maybe unpacking the question is saying the thing is he also talk about freedom in Internet from known and what worries me and the message I keep coming across is freedom is being taken to mean free at no cost especially for the people in the developing world this notion of bringing the Internet is saying the at no cost but taking away the freedom freedom of choice of the to our express itself freely because if there are certain platforms who's to say somebody is not a big amount somewhere in determining which of the big 5 undersea there and so you can be in mediation just end
by saying this on before someone close that me because of that person out of the argument and the actually we're talking about hiking museum because what happens soul so cheap and easy to to get was is final story we also have some what what now the beauty with virtually had quitting what's up so this city and you know was it's going to be putting and you can use whatever the search engine yet inside what's out of how fantastic reads went and do it but city originated from from you and from from Indian Guides and that literally can be able to use what's up you know as a stage place you can use it to access and use is just a sum games in the whole of interesting things and I think it has that what you've just saying and you to say ultimately you know people do also the freedom to do more than 1 thousand of people I hacking inside or that kind of that should be used as an indicator they want if I may add 1 thing that comes up with what endure includes I just said to me that also raises a lot of privacy concerns actually if we're in those apps
because they have this it's not just not free as in freedom of choice is it's also not free as in they are getting something from the fact that everyone is using that and from a privacy perspective that is really really scary and languages just I mean EU data protection logic bring into the you context just once more I actually says that the customers have to have informed consents I need to know what exactly is gathered about me which data is collected how long stored have process do we know that with Freebase 6 2 we know that with any of those acts in the context of the writing I'm not so sure the other thing is that the regulation of the Data Protection Regulation also states that there needs to be an alternative i'm because that's the only way that we can make sure that people are 4 and and actually can give consent to something because if you only have 1 choice there's like consent is meaningless say that again from a right b and that he's because that's the only way to protect the privacy if you are in control of your data and I think a lot of this is actually undermined without discussion of is that 1 that zero-rated do even if we Hackett it's still on this map and the data still flows to the same cooperation and that is not good the things that I
would love to go a little bit deeper into the whole 0 privacy debate and also on Internet freedom however you're running in the middle of times so I would love to know from you know what kind of implications too easy for policy makers regarding success at the of any concrete recommendation and so what do we need to we need a standards how can we go on a calcaneal social work of civil society together what how can the inspection and but but need to be done all the last I will how the message of and working with policy in Africa telling them the 1st of foremost a form itself In followers of about the economics of it and the social political implications must have almost the 2nd thing is we
need to demand more research and there's so much more research needs to happen here to inform need empirical evidence so you have for instance are the advancement of free basics in Africa for example the only statistic that only reference point we have is from Facebook itself so that within 30 days most users and then gradually to the full Internet yet or when you really really dig deep and wring their hands in the ring Facebook's hand they doing follow that sometimes it's mostly the same people over been using the internet for using 3 basic out when you run out of bundles and may be too late to go out and buy at time so we don't have the time and in that it with something that is being pushed the put forth as a development agenda but if we do not have the statistics and they don't have research and as a researcher I don't have access to that empirical evidence I'm worried and so I think for me to research research research and or policy makers need to inform themselves 1st and foremost I don't want it to be apprised I will I want to be able to have a conversation with a sum of Facebook Wikipedia 0 that everyone in the same room but we're making the keys to make informed in uh it you know I informed point of view but we're trying to do here but most importantly I we are 1 of the things that governments are in Africa right now have been you think of the universal service access comes was some variation of it and this is where all these octaves as if was putting money as a percentage of the gross uh gross income to words actually and forward advancing internet in its entirety why don't we just let their work and the need that is the whole issue of political will and it's a it's a very touchy issue but I think that approach still needs to be given credence and so that would be a drive that we still keep pushing for advancing the internet in its entirety and to make it more affordable so we stop having this notion that free means no cost for the poor people of the global south was being connected because of inexperience semi messy stuff they buy it apart from research and utterly agree but research
also needs to be funded and for funding from certain sites commonly also need political will like we had over the last 3 days people have been saying like who run the world as well you know if there's enough political I think the problem would have been solved already and
it's not that that is very important how do we do that like hiring in science like get people to be excited about this talk to your Government's engaged in a discussion open the dialect I think as long as we don't keep making that point and bringing those arguments home and making sure that everyone's at the table because it is a very complex topic and there's a lot of things and a lot of concerns to be heard we're not getting anywhere and I think broadening that dialog apart from having data to support the arguments that we're bringing in those conversations is very very important because otherwise it says this will will provide some is already providing access to Western the engage that's like you even if you wanted to get doesn't mean that you may be aware of all the other things that are happening like with development aid agencies for instance when they say like 0 but there's of Wi-Fi provided the only thing is you have to give up your biometric data to lock onto the data how about the protection there's so many aspects of their so just make sure that all the experts at the table and for that every 1 of us to be involved but
not just the text of the interested parties that might not really experts but have an interest that have a stake in this argument because when we're defending like the value of of not having just 0 rate of absolute services here and there in and what we are trying to push forward is the value of the full Internet uh so that's something that might require some support but that's what civil society groups that are supposed to do as well uh not just saying how bad badly this that you people have free what's up but on the contrary how important it is that the
Internet is value has this role the thing I to support uh of complete the obviously the the idea of the need for more information on this um there the policy implications are not just about what we need to do but also about what this means in terms of the political arguments as well knowing that the idea of this notion of for this in northern and western the corporations out of providing this all this kind of services and expanding the use of Bayes and they're pretty much doing what what what although northern companies have done throughout history in in consonance like Africa like they Asia like Latin America where the hell they have been expanding the use of Bayes and any possible regulatory action will be only a reaction when the market is already set up in so these are very political arguments that we need to take into account and we need to also provide the arguments to be to our constituencies to our audiences and to obviously our policy makers in
order to to provide for recommendation for the best possible solutions that the interest of the people who want to keep using the service well so this is the interest of our tensor penurious out and to produce that our programmers so and everyone was part of the digital economy uh which is such a big part of the discourse in the developing world manages just to to say I think it's important that policy-makers go back to basics and basic face because of manifest of this thing I think that it
is I think it's important for policy makers to go back to the basics nothing the and n and double the number 1 that they take account of you know and public interest which is what the the 4 police about you know and managing how people you know did certain things but also take account of the very basic thing off white wedding itself exists so whatever policy is coming up must still safeguard effect that they maintain it is they make me say this was it was it was probably for the set and the global south that this you could call them into intended and as a means of of production everybody must have access to some kind of means of production and the mother built from each is really up to up to them so I think that must be the thinking that comes into it to say the very essence of the Internet itself met must always you know I'm super especially for aquatic that will supersede the interests that are found by the different players and it must come down to common interest how can this help you know and people at large yeah creates he argues
that we have to open up a dialog and that's what I would like to do now are there any questions from the audience comments then we shy people yeah come spoken contentions I think this is a really fascinating conversation and to being and where you or we have about about having resurgent recommendations on
resources about where the solar conversations wrapping here on are happening on forms or is there is any good sources close by reading these different points so for activists than maybe trying explain this issue to their communities this data from the image in a
context for instance the the gates which is the German development aid agencies variously open to this conversation is they're very engaged in the whole right axis debate and that's the same for the development aid ministry otherwise I would say
usually that depends on where you are often the ICT minister but it's not so hard to actually get in touch with your lawmakers if you're interested in that so you get when you have to seek them out and it's not like they're not going to be here per say if they're not invited because it's not the natural entry point so they need to benefit from both sides I would say it's not per say easy but it's definitely possible I but yeah I and mean it takes time and also questions like who has the resources to commit that sort of time and another into point where this is happening is internationally so there's a lot of far in meanings where this conversation is taking place where all the makers goal like I remember from my time in the office I participated in so many conferences there was always an issue and yes I did take it back home but then again how do you get the funding to active participate in those conferences but if you're interested there's a lot of foundations out there who can help and how how we can actually make sure that remote access for instance to participate you can get there is a huge issue in a question that we haven't actually answer yes
very quickly and the what where the lines for affordable Internet is really useful around this on an awakening dimension she's just published a fever around the issue how so we all writing and the trying to put forth this this argument in more eloquent English words that buzzwords and so that the left and so I think on this on this nationalist platform a lot people you reduce and so it's a good question about where we cannot be great that and make a I guess concerted effort but some started resources elevated free the full and turned into open access unfettered yeah houses going in the attic it as well as the job of making have betrayed advocacy out and they do make a brilliant case and they competed whatever avoid technical
level but also its programs are there and it's as simple community meetups as well so does a very good source of getting enough resources in I they to engage in what on this issue issues so there there are some companies that have happened regarding the regulations and you like to save the ins and that's the same thing for India that have been compared with the it's discussion or is there a life of of Internet and all those all those venues and conferences where this this kind of things are discussed in English but it's not but it's it's always important to go back to your to your local context and to constant you're you're your own your own constituency and you're policymakers and and speaking a language in a language like literally a language that they can understand and and to provide the arguments and not just leave them in the hands of the global civil society that speaks in English acted Swain and something that you suggesting is extremely important so the military and in the community and the local localization of these issues is extremely important in in all non-expansion thing you'd find if you bring in the gas and the Ministry of ICT they didn't want me to Shirley T. is invisible at any time in charge of intending to and editing the idea so I do believe that it's also to train actually engage in unit at those levels and you can make a difference
yeah yes i have minus Norman policy adviser to our not German
Development ministry thanks for the interesting discussion of I a question might just be bold what would you recommend them torture but do much of that sample should we fight product sum and kind of you know if item have many more were should really be a more moderate salinity voices to say that before regulations for example to move on to work with them OntoSensor do not
incentivize that from a human rights perspective don't do it provide I find the free software support the open source community make sure that these tools can assume we be reproduced rather than because that's a waste of money and apart from that like in
all our development aid work is always from a human rights perspective I don't think that any you zero-rated incentive should ever be supported from that perspective but like listen to the people here and I think it's great that you here so that conversation taking it forward is very important but like land answer do not support it and then the 2nd step find the research instead
of but every mean it's reach you and I know that almost international development organizations they they that that would be a natural next and probably would you been do with
governments in our context but I would really suit against the notion of I do not on a that developmentalism this the same show that we've seen with Africa and not in Latin America this time with the internet is the last public common good I feel that we can actually get on an equal footing you might the biggest risk you face it it's probably supporting that kind of like is actually perpetuating the very divided trying to close up so that's the best thing that stays just find the research encouraged for more dialog in fact pleased to invite you for years for discussions like these I bring them to the table because when I can bring them to the table you can it the the
if the thanks Tom I think there was a really fascinating conversation and um I mean I have some so while I'm like I would like to ask a couple of
things I want to all research thing that's very important but I mean you mentioned you mother used uses what have I mean your mother will be interested in the results of the research that you probably would be interested in keeping what's as if we in that's also what's actually going to happen when the legislation like in Zimbabwe really bands you knows you're to that's what so would there be an outcry in the population and also the question would be what the alternative I mean uh you said it would be great if there would be a local development you know the eternity to what set of Facebook uh in South Africa there was an excited which was a local alternative but it's like cheap version of Facebook and so and and and they stop their services which is you know pity but maybe that the course of time so do you think there is and we'll possibility that there will ever be a local develops alternative which is not in all areas so bad in collecting data Facebook and think of the boys my Medicine-Clinical
phase and this can lead I'm feeling really old mother of the have and what thank you thank you for that and I think you do raise their baby and put that in the nodes are still come back to the fact that what I
believe is what is just that nap but what I want my mom and undermines like mothers around the world to have these equality they must have access to the internet and
probably all of it I suspect that she only laugh because that's all she's ever seen in all the or that the easiest seen by failing to Latin was memory the teacher the hydrogen is here retirement plan is a preschool if you could see all the resources of pictures and video you could get off other kindergartens around the world I'm sure she probably may change have the and you Britain on the issue of its it which also close and I think because I mean the start of space I did kind of follow up some of the dominant group the 1 of the founders actually shared the fact that they did failed to compete with their almost like quite up and and the hours a somewhat that we read them and during the for me my feeling is if what happens when I didn't have done well with local guy doesn't develop something that does what what ABC into this no point fixing it if it's not broken it's working so if they build something that works better than what's up by all means also put them you know part of people but if they don't we use what is available because after has been said and done as is that of self and given an opportunity that that is equal you should go something that can be able to compute all by itself and not compete on the because someone has given me to take up in this chapter that will ever be an
alternative we won't find out what that is 0 it is there's no incentive to build something else so if we don't have anything else find but the the fact that thing is that we need to have the choice if and once users what that that's fine but give them the choice and with during they don't have it and that's the problem and with equal rating at least you know you give the other start of the opportunity and the chance to build something else and would say there's so much talent out there it is definitely possible examine idealist I do have hope theories alternatives and it is a meta-network affect rate so once enough people use it and also government can regulate certain things so we can make sure that some of the apps that currently exist do the respect data protection due respect our privacy and don't storing gather data that is not necessary that also in the hands of the regulator so there's a lot of things that we can do it's not just about the rating that think of it as they do you want to live in a world
where 1 company yields so much power but the thing is use on the Internet because that's exactly what you working to it's the centralization of the web he'll at a lot of times it's not necessarily that a local alternative would necessarily do good but it's exactly look at here is that it's the fact that we should have that speech that Internet that created Facebook that Internet that enable what's after to come to exist that must be the same Internet that I know that other entrepreneur the
rehousing of hop elsewhere and should be able to make so it's a bit it's a bit dangerous to have 1 company that benefited from a free full open Internet trying to close it out you yeah and then it's not something that is only really
sincere rates and because the success of the following it is of with the fact that in many cases phase which is very popular and it turned out that many web developers started getting less job for because people were starting to create space of pages for their products in and companies and and starts at and news sites and blogs and everything do so on a Facebook page because it looks nice and everyone will go to the face it is something that meets the needs of a broader discussion about the things that we want for our internet and the mean of course that when we see that there is money involved in the in imposing some services instead of all those in the discussion gets a bit but it's harder but but it's a specialist what happened a white I think time is almost up 55 minutes left of theirs last question within the the it yeah so took on this new here it's more of a comment to the I don't use
the lot of so the world the multiplicative is mostly by Alfred to sound the negative the note on these big monopolies that we have are created for assignments because there people like to be where the friends are and and this is always going to happen and the companies that have the computing power to run this massive networks so always going to be the ones that are going to be in a better position to Bush the other tools there's a reason why you the some face because the friends on facebook so that I'm asking what else can we do all the then new solutions that you're making making maybe to break this all you're more portable the the output of reproducible research group Moldova primordial group brew loose through most of
the thing is actually 1 thing that you like you have a text regulation is that there's a class that allows you to take all your data is so you can I'm not sure what the exact term is that you can actually have the right when you want to be faithful to download all your data and needs to be up notable to whichever
platform you choose afterwards we have no idea how that's going to be implemented yet better right so let's start suing for it and make sure that you companies have to rewrite the code that makes it possible to transfer your data because that is actually going to be an amazing tool to break up ZindoZ because I'm not going to lose all my pictures of my kind 2nd taken to the next that that's often I realize that everyone see that principle being implemented and its lot of so I really can't wait for the next 2 years and then after to start seeing that being implement that's great 1 what ability and I don't think the net effect is
always going to be in here but the fact that will be speaking about here is that we just want the Internet to still have that rule for other species for us to migrate to because it said I think the
dangerous scary world when upon company that still feels next hour so you can see for instance right now is not generation there bypassing Facebook altogether right and it will create their own network effect that but not totally is able to exist because a free open Internet so that's the that's the baseline we're talking about we must protect that the slide so it's a concerted effort at all levels what's up can still what's up these levels what's happened to fly finalize while supporting a field in Internet abuse level it is important that we give densely we love it but the free and open Internet must be the the light here and M. Anderson and the out the infinity is a good
thing but what what what used to be called intended of OGD we because of common like 50 change that name to few basic because Facebook is not yeah just you about the free open Internet and the fact that they would have to change because of the pressure yeah those those are good things and the fact that the network effect exists is to allow us to provide also back you have to use signal to speak to Catholic and having the number 2 duration a so to protect the baseline is necessary but it's also you understood that protect and our rights of use of also that you have such rules in Europe but in the focal we do not have the things but of we wish we had something is half as good but was still can push for those it's all about our ability to not just dedicate ourselves to ICT policy because we are concerned about this and this but the underlying values in the underlying human rights that are involved in this kind of decisions and how this is not just about market value or just competition about services all the underlying ideas and the human rights implications of what we do without technology is after all an extension of our lives in general is not just a separate issue great so let's fight for free and open Internet thank you so much so unimportant here yes please come talk to others some modesty and rebuild the ranch get things we will not hear rates the conversations of the system that was there in
uh of
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Metadaten

Formale Metadaten

Titel The Good, the Bad and the Zero
Serientitel re:publica 2016
Teil 149
Anzahl der Teile 188
Autor Sambuli, Nanjira
Berger, Cathleen
Lara, J. Carlos
Mubaiwa, Kudzai M.
Gimpel, Lea
Lizenz CC-Namensnennung - Weitergabe unter gleichen Bedingungen 3.0 Deutschland:
Sie dürfen das Werk bzw. den Inhalt zu jedem legalen Zweck nutzen, verändern und in unveränderter oder veränderter Form vervielfältigen, verbreiten und öffentlich zugänglich machen, sofern Sie den Namen des Autors/Rechteinhabers in der von ihm festgelegten Weise nennen und das Werk bzw. diesen Inhalt auch in veränderter Form nur unter den Bedingungen dieser Lizenz weitergeben.
DOI 10.5446/20709
Herausgeber re:publica
Erscheinungsjahr 2016
Sprache Englisch

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Fachgebiet Informatik
Abstract The Good, the Bad and the Zero: This panel will explore different examples of zero-rated services across the world, looking into potential products of public interest as well as so-called walled gardens. Featuring speakers from Zimbabwe, Kenya, Chile and the EU, we will compare different regulations and patterns of investment trying to depict and identify strategies of how to increase access without undermining the free and open nature of the Internet which must be governed by human rights.

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