Herding Trolls, Legitimately

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Video in TIB AV-Portal: Herding Trolls, Legitimately

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Herding Trolls, Legitimately
The Ethics of Online Community Management
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Racism, sexism, trolling, flaming, griefing and other kinds of toxic behavior seem to dominate headlines about social media and digital games today. From both theoretical and practical perspectives, this 60-minute panel will discuss the crucial role of community management and a communication culture driven by ethics, empathy, dialogue and responsibility when it comes to governing toxic behavior online. After short inputs by each panelist, we will open the floor for questions from the audience.
Peer-to-peer Data management Onlinecommunity Computer animation Weight Weight Ring (mathematics) Sound effect
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Metropolitan area network Multiplication sign Planning Bit Digital signal Rule of inference Code Data management Data management Process (computing) Computer animation Hypermedia Videoconferencing Game theory Thermal conductivity Error message Position operator Spacetime Row (database)
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yes I agree morning you had everybody and and things so there is short introduction the net and the effect is things for to complete have for having a C today am yes so I will introduce my peers over there in a minute but let me give you a short introduction to our talk my name is the height by the way I'm a digital media such as that of the introduce myself later some
you know if you have been here the last days might have realized that hate speech on-line arrestment all of these things are quite and I issues which have been discussed a lot in several sessions and talks and yes actually you could say this is the ugly face of online communication and it is an issue of course and we've seen in media coverage and about gaming communities etc. with the extreme cases and many
times like this case by Carolyn syngas and she wrote about it last year and she had as some users online users sent SWAT team to the house of her mom so we could say this is really an extreme cage is which is rather unlikely to happen to us probably a but you cannot deny that and and harassment and ambitious online behavior like cyberbullying flaming etc. is a problem so if you look at the the search for example a study from purely research in
2014 that found that 4 in 10 Internet users are Albrecht and of online harassment uh in of different types of course but they also found that 73 per spend of i Internet users have seen someone be in some way online a study from this year
from an optimal social what it almost half of the female users they were asking about online harassment had actually experienced online harassment and almost 80 per cent of women under 30 had experienced kind and different forms on investment so we could say that
harmful behavior is actually an arity laughter reality for many people so this is not a from the that extreme case but we need to find ways and also yeah means or tools was ever to talk about these things and also to work against them yeah we are here
today in a team of 4 here and to talk about them yeah at it is we she's online behaviors from another angle not so much from a regulatory perspective a perspective for example but more from an ethical perspective and it shows that the topic of online community management as 1 focus because of all 4 of us we're working on it from different perspectives on these issues of online communication and community management and I'm really glad to have him here there's Kelly vote rule it and we have trust in Bush and will encounter and as I said mine is alive so Adam modus operandi today is that we will give a short presentations at 2 % something about our work what is ours perspective on ethical issues and community management and afterwards we will hopefully have sometimes they fuck you in a and it's also like to learn about viewed as your your perspective on and on this issue the I k so 1st we stopped this cost and Torsten and
is currently working as the wizard hidden assistant professor at the University of Konstanz is also a lecturer at the University of some kind and feed at Concordia in Canada sell come here and had the estates of stated theorists muscle yeah I the morning everybody so were were
being audio stream today and people outside the and see the video stream of this so I introduce myself to the outside world From as being a business as assessed looking like this could the audience please clap for just 1 2nd to signal to the audience that I do look in fact exactly like this please flap right now I have to home and that is very kind of you so that is what the business services looks like right like it's important to have a white beard it signifies wisdom it's important to have truth in your hands right like the Ten Commandments and it's important to look really fears and mean because we like to sing people so I'm showing you this because that is kind of the job description according to I think a lot of people they think business ethicists are just you know I mean wisecrack and people who bitch and moan about companies um that's
1 misconception low and another 1 this is that you can expect this is to give you something like Campbell's condensed business ethics soup i.e. a ready-made solution for every ethical problem you could possibly have in any given context and some I'm very sorry to disappoint you right away but that's not what work on off on because ethics is about you figuring out your own shit not us telling you what to do and so my job here is to sort just frame this conversation a teeny tiny bit in terms of ethics but not to tell you how we can fix online community management once and for all the so now looking
at this card here from the card game munchkin that you might know we talk about trolling year and this is a natural a level 10 natural mind you has no special powers and is really mad about it and so the question is what to do really when it comes to trolling writing forum for the longest time
this is what companies did when they ran an online game or an online forum or some kind of online community right as long as the came in and you could sort of very conveniently put into your years in across your eyes and into your mouth you didn't have to do anything right it enough to listen you don't have to do anything because the rationale was well as long as we have customers we don't wanna mess with them right we don't wanna scare them away and tell them to behave nicer and we don't have to because we still keep having customers right so there's just no need to do anything the and that went on for something like 20 years in the past like 3 4 years have brought public scandal after scandal after scandal in increasing amount of online outrage about the company's not actually intervening and so intervening now is
often what they do which then looks like this but which means it's a very clumsy sliding tackle very often it's not very well thought out and you probably will get a red card for this if you do it wrong as a company so um this is the part where I need to
introduce a concept don't be scared it's not very complicated so i'm gonna talk very briefly about instrumental corporate social responsibility which is sort of a concept that you can see when companies try to justify why the intervening and this is not an Apple product even though it looks like it might but we need to talk about corporate social responsibility for so that's basically the idea that companies do have different responsibilities than just to print money and you have of course just 0 agreement within the discipline officers effects on what that actually entails but that's not about that's a feature so we know that somehow we need to deal with responsibility issues with businesses we can't agree on what that actually means but what we do agree on is that instrumental corporate social responsibility by and large is bullshit because that means you you the the company running an online community you will help them out against harassment if and only if there is a financial benefit to you right the idea is well I'd really like to help you out their community but like this this is no financial incentive for us to do it so we're just gonna keep like doing what we've been doing and what you really need to sort of um argues various well don't people maybe have dignity and
deserve to be treated as people and not just as customers right so you can use this gentleman's serious 0 that's among the kind of course and to argue to takes community seriously because people are people and be they they deserve to be treated with dignity and not just as a means to an end the means to an end being profit right so that is a point that I really want us to get back to in the conversation we're gonna be having some people deserve to be treated as people with dignity just intrinsically right you need a profit motivation to help somebody out see you observe a person drowning and you say well I'd really like to help the out right now it seems to me that that's the right thing to do but you sure need to offer me an incentive for helping you out here because you know like my motivational structure is kind of capitalist I can't do anything about it and then you know you're doing something wrong and the same holds true for online community management them and sort of turning that
into a normative ideal of how to run the community of course you just end up being somehow confronted with discourse as X 1 way or another this is your problem as everybody knows him of course so I just wanted to show a pretty picture and the idea there is that we actually need to install a process often involving everybody in the community in a conversation about how we wanna run that community in everybody needs to have their say right it's not just about those ones who are the loudest having their say it's about everybody in the community and say that's kind of the point of this process X in a nutshell and I just saved you like 5 semesters of time in grad school and and is the
point there is that you want involve every stakeholder here right and very often when you read about some online community management and online resin all these kinds of things right when you're European you call for the state to regulate this right when you're American you call for business to regulate this because you don't want Washington to be messing with things and what I would like to call forest for community to be taken seriously right sort of actually involved those that are affected by the arrestment in the regulation and the governance of that arrestment and I've done a little bit of business consulting in my time you would be surprised at just like how many managers come to you asking all Mr. wise business ethics guy could you please tell us what to do we have this issue was whatever employees or some community and then we'd really like to figure this out and we really wanna do the right thing and then if you ask them well did you ever talk to the people you're talking about here and there like in new that's not what management does right and so it's kind of chemists have really but I think this is not this is literally like ethics is not rocket science and them that is also really important to just involves the people that this is about
right so that is 1 thing I wanted to sort of remember the other thing is tech is not neutral right always comes with built values and so the idea that business is neutral is just as stupid as the idea that technology from and you can see
this with this gentleman here right who took 10 years to finally understand that some white dudes in San Francisco who never saw that women or people of color could be harassed on their some service line of need to actually take this seriously and regulate the status of right but it took them for ever to figure that out because they build a product with specific values in specific norms in mind right and the idea that somebody could be arrests via their services just was seen seem to be outrageous to them and just unimaginable so all the points that
I wanna really drive home here is that there is intrinsic moral value in community which means if you run any kind of community better take them seriously and taken seriously for their own sake not because you need the financial incentive for those
and the 2nd thing is that we can discuss later on right like tech companies that are currently finally sort coming around to the idea that they're actually allowing harm to happen and that that's bad right and they want now intervene and taken to no harm approach to what they're doing but doing no harm is just not enough right they also need to actively involved and get involved to some influence the culture that we have which just happens to be a reflection of the offline culture we have which just happens to be sexist and racist and all kinds of unpleasant things right so the idea is that companies need to actually get involved and try to make a positive impact on culture with that under this
is to be thank you have so I'm I'm kelly Boudreau I and a games Lecture on at Grenelle you've the London I teach game studies are to gain does up students and I wanna talk about and a little bit about managing the mayhem from the top top down regulation and and some of the problems with it and some of the things that we can do to move forward and a extend out so I wanna start with
that terms of services and end user license agreements which is the most exciting topic on the planet and but 1 of the things that we need to realize is that while it is a very bad legal about legally structure it's there for a purpose but to protect the company's and excellent so forth but you know everybody when they're playing a game and my research is around a game of game user research is the idea that it doesn't matter about what the content is in these are and user at you as in terms of services for the player they just wanna scroll down click that they've read and agree I to get on playing the game and the problem is is that the binding contract in the sense that and you said you you write it except there's a lot of a lot of clauses in it and a lot of things that people just skip over so 1 of the things to think about is how can we kind of make this a bit more accessible to the communities that are playing the games and that you're putting out there and I don't expect anyone to read this text but it's just an example of and the top 1 is an extract from a terms of service from club penguin which is an online animal for children 6 to 14 years old and the bottom 1 is the terms of service that code of conduct for world of warcraft which is 18 and class but if you look at it it is exactly the same language and then so if you're expecting someone from 6 to 14 to kind of understand the differences between and what is a violent a Volga versus and somebody over the age of 18 and you might want to communicate that information of that and the other thing to consider is that an these things in the things to different cultures and so in an online games that cross boundaries due to geographical and cultural boundaries in what is consider to be offensive might be different for different communities so it's really important to think about communicating these types of terms and services to the intended audience of the demographic of your the of your game yeah the the other type of
top down and the regulation don't talk about it is and what can't Albert cause creative interventions and so this was in Guild Wars 2 on the forms in 2012 if I remember correctly and there's a link on the last slide if you wanna read her full discussion about it but on guild words forms you're not allowed to swear or use any offensive language and what the designers had power I decided to do it is replaced the critical list of of offensive words and and the put the word kittens so any time you would swear it would be replaced automatically by code as a kitten so if you said bullshit it's bull kitten and and so it kind of through the through the art forms a kind of was well received as a have a potential by fusing a potentially problematic and toxic behavior through copula commuted relief and but through this bad but try to own it mentions you know it's and this was not in the terms of service so while it's a creative solution is fundamentally still a top down solution because they never around then you can correct me if I'm wrong but they never really had it with the by online communities say what words are offensive to you in this kitten the best and turned to be replaced you know I mean why not for because dogs Austin to I'm another way to do it um had to regulate online behavior I in extreme way again with club penguin is a tax they have to save space chat rooms which is you can communicate and if you under 10 years old you can only communicate through these drop-down menus so they have of special events so that they have new categories that you can choose from this is just the generic ones so depending on who you wanna talk to it more to say to them but everything is confined to what the designers choose to be acceptable conversation for at age group they do have 10 over a chat room or I think it's 10 to 16 which they allow a little bit more freedom but it is still very strictly regulated and finally and it's quite a not very clear on this slide but I In World of Warcraft this is the way to and regulate or create a set of digital afford a technological affordances is to create different types of play opportunities so this is 1 of the daily having quest that you can choose from on the bottom this height is p v e which is player versus environment and on the other side you can choose to play player versus player and what this does is it sets up an next 2 of the type of behaviors and that is afforded by the gain so if you're playing on the PV e server you're playing against the environment the idea is that it is cooperative even though it's still competitive game for resources and yet you tend to do your thing either with your group and go forward In the PDP he's section that you can attack each other players can go into combat with each other and if you do question somebody kills you chances are you might curse that them and it kind of escalate Towards a problematic and behavior but the thing is is that that's affordance of the design this is something that am is something that can be regulated at and you can create the types of spaces that you want your our players to airmen to engage in and then finally the
last 1 that I want talk about is that community management which row and we'll talk about in more depth shortly but the thing about community manager and management and community managers is that fundamentally it's a good step in the right direction but in the games industry it's and so not a very respected position at the low paying position and this is a difficult challenge if you wanna read errors are few I watched this video which is by extra credits the talks about how game companies can start and screening people for a online in communities but the thing is is that fundamentally they are an employee of the company the goal to regulate police maintain the rules and the codes of conduct that created by the time by the company yeah but on the other hand they also have to create and their job is to maintain the community side of things to make sure that it is a safe space that that has this space that players want to engage in and and continue to play and without the instrumentalist aspects that was mentioning you know it's not just about making sure people keep a plane to keep paying but it's that you want people to um have this community and on that note I will let role and talk about in the management of that work thank you very much that you hello
the perfect so the 1st thing I have to do this I want to ask you who views working as a community manager of social media manager so aren't up the OK we can go that we have finished now so um I am in the Board of the Association for German community managers and we aren't doing a little bit of providing the necessary use of those we are going to to to show how with these 2 new jobs have to be defined and what kind of work and there has to be included so that
start a yeah manage my speech with some maybe 100 or so and a set of community management and when we talk about community management in the business context that's often the idea of doing marketing the united front already so um the idea we send information to the protease establishing a community me this is already today whose by companies In the idea of doing community management and there's no idea that's community management is a better way to get in contact with people and that brings me to my next question who thinks community management is to have at that so that it's easy to create a fantastic communities you have a good product of good idea a good service so they come to just right now but it isn't easy if your company doesn't fit to a system of ethics and values so this respected by know uh in the in the area you're working on so I have an idea about community management would I describe as good neighborhood so I'm the sort of place where you put your marketing level or if you you visit American cities there are parts of our reunited English and Rosalind at and and other places with lots of I'm perfectly so what the difference in this separate communities in a in a bigger city so that the situation have and the internet we have places to live where gardening and we have places geographies of communication you talk about today so we're talking a lot about it it's republican and why is it so what what can we do with the community manager to 2 so watch out it's yeah we not get these hate speech so visible and I'm sorry so we can do the floor and we have to yeah 2 will will feel pairs so and etiquette or words of engagement phi managing your community OK so the accepted so methods to organize the social work together so I'm I think law as an interesting point and the when we don't talk about it in our association it's really 1 of the things we need to do to handle in a way that other way other people understand and on we have a problem because of know the 1 so we do the legislative with creating along the other side we have to be the Executive by yeah president people all would amount of our community so it's a little bit different because of you know about social society we have slept in the different positions and that's 1 of the points we have problems with initiated to at the moment at the discussion that Facebook is creating wire or over a state is going to face from safe they don't see the point hate speech so much so it's a little bit difficult white has the ends the infrastructure to do this job I don't believe that the work of infrastructure and delivery so that the more the job of community managers and we have to accept that companies they create communities that these platforms have to have a look at it and they have to accept border-crossing is 1 of the things that our community not only is on 1 platform so we have communities moving over different platforms and um if this happens we have to use different to it's on different platforms so that means a new mind-set which except that we don't have true would like executed path to manage these negative so voices and so I'm sorry I'm a text that had so to do this we have to do an investment companies don't like this because of investment is not the idea of business because of your review some like small earning money so the investment is an education and um everybody of you was working at a job I do it's a since more than 10 years and in the beginning there was no 1 can uh talk about for the testing so something you did before so we have to try out everything out of by also if that's not the situation now we have really well known experts in this area we have in the uh to universities so much content about this so much practical background on this so much studies about this so that we are in in the world was full of information so it will be easy for each of you to manage these negative it uh take a minute this negative things in the communities and 1 um really hot factor that this could work this connected community to the offline world you have to meet Euro influence life may be here at the Republican so that you can get a better contacted community and you all you and you know all your influencers in your community it is easy to you literally for you to identify each person who's doing wrong things in your community you can contact him to in 203 freeways and so the problem of all its being doing it in the public so that is 1 of the of the ideas we have them by using offline and online work on the end and that's the the last point of me we have to talk about a culture of of on online being aligning communities that uh this nearby the culture we do it in the real-life and you have to accept their awards and there are places where can do things in other places where don't have to do with this culture we have to transport a make it more of the same so I hope to each of your professional it's is doing is already so I now I'm finished and would like to thank you to name Mr.
OK thank you because of thinking went and I said it before in the introduction and digital media we nurture and interested in digital media ethics so I want to talk a bit more about the problem of scale when we talk about online communities because what we do online at community Kate in the and again and to communities and that they are glued together by communications on these communication in many cases so maybe to come
back a step back a little bit to the question what actually in what ethics on why we need to know why we need to discuss them and I did really liked is a quote from 19 78 so it's try but I think it's still applies it's really simple attested affix a guideline unprincipled that help us to uphold a land use and are not simply prohibitions but they also support us in all positive work responsibilities and I want to go and emphasizes responsibility aspect I think this a sports all of the mentioned already so always responsibility it is that the managers of the communities and the companies or the providers of communication platforms and so on but as I said I mean more interested in additive media communication so we could think
about it online communication as so there are some uh scholars and trying to set out some principles of online communication and they refer of course to basic and universal uh human rights human dignity uh Harbour Master score of ethics and so on and I think this is bit too much here has been but it just want to point out some of these principles are like his things like mutual respect in communication and being authentic or selectively authentic that our communication a mutual yet that they're not 1 is speaking and the other 1 is not answering and I I think this is really relevant if you think about community management but also and this is really important from media idea of press you have to accept actors as persons and to give him respect as persons but also not to instrumentalized down so if your thing about money only when it comes to community management editors I would say this this instrumentalization by the people you are interacting with them many of you are familiar with these things I guess because they are also the foundation of netiquette guidelines etc. especially forums think of the beginning of the internet and we have checked the cat and so on so that we have some frameworks and guidelines already at play in many and many and communication spaces we are now in chapter
however the communication environments we are and we are living in practically to there uh as have the online users might be before many of the living in these media day are lots it's case think of Facebook over compliance up billion users think of value to all over the those are numbers by damn and if I didn't have to I didn't count everyone and then the even Twitter has 300 to 320 million users so we are in large-scale communication environments and also as will and already set those platforms and environments are intersected young people are moving from Facebook to Twitter to you tube and um at a large scale so at
this leads in my opinion to some kind of context call that's yeah because
them you never know who are these people it is from community US community managers should be familiar with the series had so the question is and I cannot know what I mean this is the idea of community management to know most of the users how they are how communicate what they want or what they don't want but in large scale environments this is absolutely impossible and I think we have a lack of context I we those platforms uh have global reach and you can have anonymous profiles there's a lack of social cues as also I think some communicated distance to most of those users so this is why this common sections go why and all the time this is I think is 1 of the part of the problem and and this is
different because if we stand here and 50 together this face communication so we have an idea that that is context of our interaction and shapes to some extent how we will act and what we say so we can adjust tone or maybe uh change the way the presenter of ourselves so in social media you could say that in parts of debt a cut off or may be removed or maybe more difficult and maybe to see expressions of those who moved from you communicating just 1 example and Robert American boy
take all this context collapse and through social media technologies and there's another problem it's not only the context in which managers or which is harder to define or harder to grasp it's also that we face multiple audiences and social media platforms yeah you have 1 in which we area half the people from the US having their own hash text or you have communities from New Zealand some of from Germany or whatever so we have not only different languages but also different cultures and wall platforms and I think this makes it really hard to apply some of those ethical principles as I mentioned before when it
comes to scale is also not a problem this is marked ROC he was of the former a moderator of guardian and of the Guardian community and he pointed out that scale and then in in another and in another way he says that the worst experiences he had he he left a guardian so he could try to write about this on the garden platform to worst experiences he had was of the uh um below the line in both to large-scale assaults by groups of people who wanted tool broaden the community the conversation and either through a convergence of like minded people so people decide how we have to same opinion yeah let crashed uh precious conversation or by organizations so he calls them get agenda Traulsen there the idea is not to discuss but to ruin the conversation and which is basically really unethical behavior and the problem here is you don't have like 100 2 100 so of people but uh thousands of people were doing this together so this is what I mean with the question of scale and how we work or how we uphold our ethical principles and communication principles in lab-scale mind and so there's another thing
think this I think we do is really a problem nowadays when we talk about online conversations and comments sections etc it's a social box so we don't even know all the talking about to human beings anymore and what's even worse we also instrumentalized do spots so ties is an excellent example she was taught to to is behavior and we could also think about and ethical principles that are not only if you talk to humans but also the box and we we now have we don't have any idea for that yes I would get I would suggest and we should start thinking about
so come back to mark borrows he's actually an optimist yet he seemed really awful stuff I'd say but he's an optimist he believes that we can change the conversation and that we can become better by actually changing behaviors that does not only in with the Guardian itself but also to respect the commenters and also respect effect that's uh harmful behavior call Spain in people you have to realize that people are involved and 1 of my questions or to a
question I have is how can we create actually mold and actually designed a healthy environment or healthy communicate of cultures and how can be sure that they are based on shared norms and values so not top down but that we negotiate and these aspects and then the
question of how to implement this universal rights and principles into those last que global communication environments so will we shape it the future of online conversation or will it be shaped for us and what is our all them this was my short input and thank you
yeah so and now my turn to be the moderator and if you want to you can come and more between the gene and center of community you not being the for being here if this yeah dissonance . fast assets are important so we have plenty of time actually like 20 20 minutes now and the and the would 1st of all what like to hear your opinions and also maybe your questions as we have many community manager the and Rome had idea OK there's a microphone over there and then the other if nobody wants systems and also discussing a bit about it so if if given time to run yeah the African the we also have Dawksin off like the only kittens it's a fast share here from the inland Cliffs but I think all of your more character on the state yes and he is the 1 1st question yeah who maybe I had 0 and thank you my name is make it is that and I work for another chillin funk as as as a media manager and percentages things for the stock and I learned a lot about F 1 now and this is nothing less like 1 remark you talk about trolls and I think it's important that we distinguish between trawlers and pages so because trawlers are very annoying they destroy communication and they can kill online communities by the hate has that is something different you know that our people who post a lot of folks heads in as Darfur add another English translation and they really hated they are threatening people and I think it's very important to distinguish between trolls and hate us so that just my remark for your talk thank you yeah use think actually because so we did not included in our topic but yeah checked we share this uh this suppression it is really important not only to seperate between different at harmful online behaviors that because this is a multiplicity of of the things you can think of from trolling tool uh cyberbullying stacking and so on yeah but yeah thanks for this point yeah I think this is also and um yes this is kind of conversation on right leverage goes I make I 10 years ago I cited your Master's thesis in my master's thesis a half of the file that you know you communities there was a long time ago and I want I development master thesis about open source right exactly exam I know that I have a fast set aside a coffee have it like that you know all the small disapproving the value of community and also sorry for actually not everything that's or but the point of this you you may you raise a great point that in like a constitutional always recover right by giving people fundamental rights human rights all that stuff right that you are never and under no circumstance allowed to be too messed with right and then there's also sort of additional contractual obligations that we have as people between people might come with that is that right between citizens right we regulate how we as citizens are allowed to interact with 1 another and and yes there's a lot of research sort of coming out since like 2 thousand and 12 maybe on server constitutional rights in the digital contexts red on sort of having a digital constitution for research communities not and so on and those conversations think like killing poly knows more about because it's often that online games have sort of pioneered this already right because you had online games way back when using graph clusters the guy who wrote about this and some in the 2002 already where the question is if you run an online game community like all online or whatever and like the good old days I'm are your players just consumers are your players citizens of the online space and do they have the right to actually have a say in conversations right and those those were times were it was all just like sort of people messing with each other they like stealing digital stuff or whatever kind of harnessing rightly wasn't really the kind of real drama we've been seeing these past 2 3 years where where the stuff that you talked about actually from that the fan really badly and so I think like that kind of stuff so it's actually covered by real world law in real world of textbooks and cases and all that kind of stuff and I think it's it's very important to address those kinds of fluorescent as actual legal matters not just being nice to community right so you need to be be serious about sort of from the the foundation of Siam but actual human rights and then there's sort of like levels of politeness and all kinds of stuff that we can discuss when it comes to community management right but everybody needs to be on the same page when it comes to human rights and those kinds of things for so that was a quick and I think he and what questions I yeah hi Peter and building out music community and I was curious if you've seen any developments around chat bots as mediators in community management is is anything happening there in living working this is said to a solution the technology solution then and actually I'm not so much into that that of course it's part of what we would say is that a top down approach and and I haven't seen it in the online gaming community specifically i'm but it would be a top down in the sense that it still has to be programmed by the deaf community or whatever community and is managing so unless it's a unless it's open our open a conversation with the idea that the that's at the example with the Microsoft wants a bit of a dangerous have warning signs so get but in that yeah that gives you like I'm I'm no expert on was obviously because I'm no expert on anything but the point is you have 2 have ways of dealing with this right you there are you program affixed algorithm or whatever kind of thing to do then top down regulated right like the news the company come up with like the Ten Commandments pretty literally and say here's the Bob that's gonna now
interact with the community and just execute what we have decided is like OK behavior right and just like kill all the data that's not been defined by us as acceptable so that's not great the other thing then is that a thing right like with you actually allow the bottle learn yeah that can go to like to fixed straight to hell real fast some so I I feel like this is something where you're doomed the way so I actually think it's a smarter moved to trust people in making those calls and not just try to have smart people program something to be even smarter than people with just regularly fails and actually induce said technologies never neutral so I mean a technologist are the function of the solution I think there's also the danger is still and yet to miss the whole point of community management at all it's getting to know the motives of people who are violating all who I do in a word doing harmful behavior so there is a chance to get on conversation you know 2 years ago or so I wasn't in within a larger research project the edit case studies at target cells intuitive site on the 4 hijacked and political talk show and it at this aster I want say the name an anonymous and and what we saw there that users actually like this and the communities basis those uh dose we organizations created for himself too much better Dan Facebook or you to or Twitter so the wild common sections orders Wyatt communities out there and it is so they were and they get everything like not I don't want to discuss their and they really appreciated the fact that there were community managers and and sometimes even the even journalists in with in the comments section and many journals told us that if we get involved in a in I don't know heated discussions and debates we can see how the tone and get the just and this was the idea of context and how to create this context so am I just heard that there are some media companies with you which forms on their websites will never take a look at the forms anymore so they gave up on their own website in their own in this very space they can define and also do something about it there is also a problem of having control over online environments and them which is limited in many things like if you think about 1st if spoken and what they might change our Twitter also so I would say 0 I would agree with market he says we can't give up we need to be ways design conversations in the school you have to give them a constructive direction but that would mean that everybody involved in the galvanization and would also have to say it would also have to acknowledge the fact that there's a community out there that don't ask not just sending out anything and everything anymore but there is a feedback channel and all of you have to put some value on it and not saying like this is our craft corner or this is like the the bad neighborhoods on all on website so the cost that comments and that the a yeah destructive conversation they have a negative influence on your content so just that kind of come back to the question there I I think you should have to ask yourself no it's someone has led him to ask yourself and what is the goal of of the monitoring are you just trying to regulate behavior and so as to assess the very top down really trying to foster community I and a few developing a music website chances are you probably want foster community and people tend to be the best at doing that so there is a question yes the hi I'm frank I have a question to you and that of man phenomenon that's the relates to like saying that lots of people were like you to you actually do anything and now I see school social media community management that actually goes into the opposite direction that doesn't go fleshly clarifying or of mediated but they go straight for the police the actually going there inside a higher you use the Unix the Fox and they actually kind of had success with that because they get engagement as commons they get like secondhand of reporting on that and so what do you think about that I have a strong opinion about the fact that it's really the suspect fall off the and have I have what you have used as a as an example but it's not so you bring it up here actually you if you talk about ethical principles like 1st and hot harvest mutual respect and if you go to your uh I think you talk about Facebook as so social media managers on Facebook's and making fun of uh kilometers and so on yeah if it if you want to do this this is really destructive it's um shaming off people it doesn't matter how bad it were maybe they had a bad day or whatever they were really alphabet but is your you have to change the conversation and not put another uh together with another how was the quality of he made up there at the top of the violence the yes so I would really say this is also instrumentalizing people because you want to make a point point that the point of being and sitting here for 8 hours and I have enough of you have really write something really funny now and then please shut up you have an otherwise we like that that of this also about attracting attention or I don't know click rates and all of and I think it's answer instrumentalized and because you use that user in the case to make this point and you embarrass them and I don't think that this will be successful at all in the land on the so there are different education really doing of society at the moment so that we see that there are cases like honestly Guillaume which is the use of science and humorous through interactive since he this the
works pretty good and it's already is uh eye-to-eye to it's not getting down so this is a good case if you go and visit aggressive kind of giving be down don't believe should work for a longer time because of you um create something like a wall Brooks and the the rebounds get bigger but you don't problems so I believe you have to AccuPage each other not only the professional so audience to so that you have self-healing effects in your community and the and you see like telecommuters their own goes from the community which are answering to the uh other goes from the community and the community management just have to to have fingers on them so that are cases where a community management is on a higher level and believe that must be our targets to shoot at you carried or the people on the Internet to accept so their rules for communication yeah that's a good point I can I can I add it the main things there's more all so suggests a 2nd I will try to sure I know I will feel at that but the point is and I think that the the thing that you bring out actually raises the point of there having to be consequences for misbehavior right like that's the thing that that gets praise in these countries right and the result of a teeny tiny game called League of Legends that people play online only just like 60 million of them it's an incredibly competitive game and that is why it's incredibly toxic right but they employ a whole bunch of psychologists to study why the players are toxic and 1 of the things they found out is the reason a lot of their players are toxic it's not because the anonymous or anything it's because there are no consequences for saying the n word or those kinds of things right and then they sort of messed around with it and ran a whole bunch of ethically questionable experiments on their own user based on where they found out if you just like show pop-up window even that says you just use an unacceptable words then all of a sudden like the player gets sort of like taken aback right and realizes all there actually is a wall here and that I was not aware of and like the heat of the game right on in that way you can educate users right but that means you have to take them seriously in the 1st place and not like should backward punch that was like the same kind of vigor that the the infraction was accelerated things are happening there is that virtual worlds can cause harm people so is and would also have to have hand on his clients in 10 and it was he can mentor after its golden rule so you know the rule in all time in establishing the same but like like take people seriously as as people with dignity and and also the idea I think the the itself do know things that you don't want to be the experience itself so I mean this also counts for community managers thing so if you don't want to be explained either by something or someone of it you don't wanna be made fun of and family of public space so text on to it that OK 1 last question you know the only thing I want to say is that we're talking about communities we're not only talking about Haiti's central but their positive effects as well so that we forget so and and whenever we communicate as social media managers something and the communication doesn't end at the screen there is a person and this person might take the Swiss into the of his real life so if we have lot to someone he takes it out he's not doesn't end at the computer screen and uh we really have to make sure that we don't think of a community as a bunch of people with no names but of human beings single human beings who we and they affect as as well and we just that weeks we go home and we're really pissed off with the community and we really don't want to talk to any of them again but again what effects as does the fact that so we can do we can handle this in a positive way by a giving positive voices had a chance to be heard so we just take a light on the commons so it's another kind kind of interaction not only um regulating hate speech false but giving those who have a positive opinion of voiced by making them visible and we can do this with the like a with another comment saying thank you for this comment it's just that it's a little thing to do but it can change the the the way the conversation is the seed that I just want a kind of add to that and I've been reading a lot about I have toxic messages on Facebook and what not and our around the community of Mommy blogs out power to blog about the raise their children in some of the very there it's actually very toxic community where parents like judges a very mean things to other mothers about how horrible they're doing their job and I was reading this 1 article about about this woman who was torn apart in the comments section on her blog later said that she was a horrible mother and she should have a children taken away and she was seething and she really wanted to basically blacked out and she slept on it and wrote the next day and have wrote a positive message to this woman saying you know it sounds like you're doing the best you can do is among yourselves and I know how hard it is and she actually responded in kind is to a very toxic and responsive which is there that woman who originally wrote the negative climate higher of self-reflection actually apologized on her voice on her message saying and 0 my god I'm so sorry you're raising 3 children that can't be easy and I just I was having a day and so instead of her but taking that moment and not lashing out it change the conversation change the territory and actually published strength in that uh that that money blog communities yes managers as well it's a few times you don't just respond don't react but take a time think about it and then write something that's not emotional but if flexed for instance and also invite people to be part of the conversation yeah we talked it to fit over yet barely know times we talk about how we want to allow communication in certain communities so I think it um this is said our time to the conversation that we hope you will continue the conversation in
your communities and let's get an thank you all and about
the end of the year and then I think
you guys all the very end sightful blogs and thoughts about how its speed to be
in community and and all this challenges
thank you will be back in the 50 minutes here on stage 6