Fish Bowl: Musicday
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Transcript: English(auto-generated)
00:19
So welcome. Hi everybody
00:22
Very excited to be here. I'm usually on the other side of the stage because I'm an event producer when I'm not here But anyhow, we have 60 minutes now to recap music day and the program here at the Laboratory, which is such a brilliant pun on Burkhine
00:42
here at Republica And just before we get started Really this is a live conversation on stage With my wonderful guests and the audience. So who of you is familiar with what a fishbowl is? Anyone can I have a quick raise of hands?
01:03
Okay one there So maybe yeah exactly all come forward I'm just gonna quickly explain Basically what we're doing is a panel but We have one Seed here, which is free and it's for you dear audience to join
01:24
so at any given point in the discussion where you feel you have something to contribute or There's something we're leaving out or you have a question to throw in Please feel free to stand up get on stage and take a seat and join us
01:41
and then obviously go back to your seat and leave it up to the next one because the idea is to Rotate people in and out and hopefully have a more involved and inclusive discussion with all of you By the way, I'm also I'm speaking English
02:00
I know we were partly German here right at least like four four Okay Maybe dinglish dinglish panel exactly the dinglish panel great
02:24
But if you do have questions, please throw them At us in either English or German We're answer both So I'm here with my full great guests and the idea is to really reflect on today's program
02:41
What were the key insights the key learnings what can we take away from we have heard so much about virtual reality today about startups in the music tech space about apps as new marketing platform for musicians and
03:01
We're really here to condense it all and extract some of the Insights that we have learned today So I say let's do a quick round of introductions and Maybe we can start with you Eric and you can say a bit where you come from what your background is
03:23
What brought you here Hello everybody, I'm Eric I work with music pool Berlin and we do consultations for musicians in Berlin and Beside this role
03:41
Also, I'm also involved in Curation of events in Berlin focusing on music and tech. I'm Roxanne de Bastien. I'm a singer-songwriter from London That's mainly what I do I'm also part of an artist organization called the FAC that's featured artists coalition. So that's a group from and for
04:06
From and for artists that that do Lobbying work and aim to give artists a united voice and they also do loads of like educational grassroots events Hello, I'm Pavel and a musician and songwriter and I'm here with sound trap, which is the recording studio online and
04:25
when I did the presentation about sound trap just recently and Yeah, I work with marketing and communications with sound trap. And yeah, that's me Hi, I'm Horst Weidenmiller, I'm the founder of k7 records We found it 85 so we went through everything which happened to music in the last years. I'm here and happy
04:45
We also we run three labels, which is called which is k7 Stratton hours We run a label service department where we take care about of 25 labels We run a management company and we work with 30 people out of offices, Berlin, London, New York
05:01
I'm personally a founder of the Global Rights Association organization, Merlin, I'm also on the board of the European independent Association in parlour and Yeah, and I'm here Cool, thank you. So a really diverse group of music experts all from different fields though. I
05:25
Was wondering because we have heard so much about music Being influenced by these new technologies today, especially virtual reality What is? What have you taken away from this? What? What are the new technologies that you foresee defining the future for the music industry?
05:47
You want me to start? One of one of the important takeaways for me Is Something that I had a feeling for beforehand, but when I heard it today on one of the panels
06:01
I was like, okay, and I was damn right. I just had the feeling that I'm this whole virtual reality thing Which totally reminded me of like this Second life hype back in the 90s might be
06:21
Might be a bubble and My feeling is that This augmented reality approach to rather Get some more context into your music Feeling seems to be much more relevant from from my point of view and I think this was like definitely something
06:46
I'd love to stress and push forward. What's much more relevant? Can you repeat that and the augmented reality? Aspect I had this feeling That this could be a very important part of this whole story
07:04
Host I know your label k7 has been a real Sort of cultural referent in terms of taking up The visual side And combining that with audio very early on so, I don't know if anyone here is familiar with
07:25
The X mix series that k7 did in what I think the early 90s maybe you can tell a bit about what that was and How you started it and how you're?
07:41
taking it we had a quick chat earlier on about how you're taking that further and Looking into virtual reality also so k7 was was founded as a music video label and we recorded live recordings of bands like the Nick Cave and Einstein or about and
08:02
suddenly this new type of music called techno bubbled up in Berlin and for me it was like as a video label, that's what I want to produce a video for and The music was done on computers. So the idea was the visuals need to come out of computers as well and You can imagine technology by the days of at the late 80s
08:23
there were just 8-bit Amiga computers and the rendering of one frame was about two days sometimes and But what interestingly and developed with the X mix was I would say, okay there is a DJ and this DJ makes a mix of 12 songs and
08:44
And these 12 songs come from the underground they come from what is really happening in the clubs and we give that music to computer artists and all over the world to visualize and and that was mainly the start of computer animation connected to techno music and I can probably proudly say that we
09:04
Created the imprint of what a techno video needs to look like but more interestingly what they happen to that is that X mix was the only platform for computer art these days because we in total produced 10 videos We started at the early 90s and ended in the late 90s
09:23
and we had from Lauren Gagne to Richie Horton to Dave Clark all the big big techno producers and MTV was really soaking up this video was because by that time there were no there were no YouTube there was just all this Eurotrash videos and they made all this special shows about the X mix of the real club sound and
09:45
And I think yeah on the one hand it was just played on on all the chill out parties But on the other hand, it was a form for computer art And I think that made X mix quite special in a way and we then ended X mix by the late
10:00
90s because we had the feeling we need to move on and there are much Newer and better concept coming into the market and we wanted to move on with DJ kicks and our other visions We had we left visuals completely behind and for me it's of course interesting suddenly now that after that many years to be in touch with
10:21
virtual reality again because that was we always were referenced to and and New romancer was a Bible. We all had to read, you know and And it's interesting. It's interesting that we know all coming back and and and and and this type of Art form becoming so present again
10:42
Do you see virtual reality as something that could replace life? Performances in terms of I'm sitting in my living room putting on my goggles or whatever, you know To I have and
11:01
Experience a Concert live without actually being there Is that something where you see? Vr's potential or is it more in the say music creation space? Which we have also heard at the panel earlier on. There are some really interesting
11:21
works being done in there I Think that I think the add-on experience I don't think that the experience of live concert which are filmed with various VR 360 cameras are going to replace the live experience But I think it's going to be a very strong add-on. I've been at that concert
11:43
I've been at that festival and now I want to be the stage camera and I want to see it from the stage Into the audience. That's certainly a strong experience and I think it Will come it will it will be mainly an additional fan product I think there is the the risk of of creating more fan products that it's soaking up the diversity
12:06
Because if when we know if for instance football goes into VR and all the major acts are going into VR They taking the money away for people experimenting with new music and though there's could be a concentration Which could be unhealthy for the market, but in general I feel that VR is adding a new element to it
12:26
Which is a good element Can I add something very unsexy to that? I I'm really excited by by that too And I've been at a Paul McCartney concert from the view of his piano, which which was amazing
12:40
But especially for new music if we really want to take advantage of that I think the licensing really has to be made simpler. It has to be a one-click thing and it's too complicated at the moment So it's almost like come on music industry get your act together now Because this thing is about to explode and it's a massive opportunity that we're gonna lose out again
13:04
If we don't just make it simpler to monetize it Really and to have you know, have it a one-click license and to have the payments actually filtered through to the people that matter I'm 100% with you and I think it's it's always difficult when you speak about
13:20
Support of innovation giving away control embracing innovation by Giving rights away. I think it's always difficult if you speak with about the music industry I think you have to separate the music industry in those who have a business model, which is driven by market share You know so if you come into a market and you have you control 40% market share like a company like Universal and
13:47
You and you give that license to a venture capital company. You can get a kickback of the Capitalization you do which is multi-million dollars But these are only three companies to do that and I think if you go back and see the other companies
14:02
Which are all there which are very much pro give license away if embrace Innovation and everything and I think that there needs to be the separation and I'm 100% with you We have to make license very simpler But luckily saying so licensing nowadays doesn't seem the problem anymore because we have so many new business ventures
14:21
Music ventures coming into the market which all get a global license So I think the days five ten years ago where you couldn't make a license when you came into the market are pretty much over You just need the capital Nowadays to please people in this market share. Yeah
14:43
Yeah, anyway, I think you you're okay seven is definitely straightforward with regards to new business models, I figure so I Have the feeling that you you you you might be the the expert to Tell us a bit more about like these kind of new business models that that might be
15:04
Possible in this whole sphere or what you just said like a for instance Universal has its Startup unit as far as I know So they they already have their platform to to come up with new business models and ideas But would be cool to hear more from your end. What what you guys are
15:24
Currently planning with regards to that kind of new business models. I Nothing has changed in music I mean music is creating an immunization of a fan which then starts to spend money
15:43
So and back in the days it was vinyls and and now they could then they came CDs and now Different type of stuff comes and perhaps it's a VR experience and I think for us as k7 we just want to create these these emotions and And this is the most important part and we want to be part of how this how people spend money and bring it back to
16:05
Us, you know, but is it just emotions or is it also like what we heard today? Like there's a big market marketing aspect in this whole technology Aspect at the moment
16:21
No, you have of course a big marketing machine But I think what is still happening is that music is touching you and by the touch of music you start to spend money because you want to be closer connected to the music and then there comes the marketing on top of that and And I think I don't know what is what we see is coming into the market is probably more
16:43
the kind of Combination where consumers can become producers. I mean for instance if you see messaging I think there is something where more and more business is coming into where it goes into the direction where people want to attach Music to messaging and there is a blurring line between getting a toolbar which is pre-produced sounds which are subject to a license
17:06
And creating it by yourself. That's for instance something we see more and more coming with snapchat coming with music and everything And I'm just curious. Do you think in the future in the near future will be able to buy?
17:22
Let's say a special type of concert ticket and just watch the whole concert being at home on your couch Yes I'm just curious. What do you think if in the near future you'll be able to Buy a concert ticket and just watch the whole concert like let's say being at home Without going to the to the gig like this type of
17:42
application of VR I'm sure you can I think that is definitely what we experience is the consumer choice and how you consume music is completely Fragmented and new business model coming in every day whereby, you know in the former days you only had one linear one record one concert and
18:03
and hopefully does so because there's more choices you have and in the more choices you can give to the consumer as More he finds his own consumption model You already have that to a degree not virtual reality But people are already so I do online shows and there are a myriad of platforms that offer that kind of service
18:22
Where you can either have a set ticket price or you can have a pay what you want And it's either you could have it a whole thing as an online concert and I'm just sitting in my living room playing songs Or it's not my living room I try to make it a bit more exciting than that But or it's at an actual gig that you're streaming live and you can monetize the live streaming of it
18:40
So so that's already been a really great add-on and an additional form of form of income Then you just enhance it with a VR device I just if you have a headset can yeah, then it just would make any difference if you actually add the gig or you One of the critique points about VR writers that is creating this really private
19:05
Private spaces and music as we know it has always been a very collective Experience music is there. I mean, you know, you can look at It's history. It's like a it's a it's a collective form of like sharing an experience together
19:26
What do you think about that? Okay, now I'm coming back with my augmented reality you think I always had the the feeling that for instance if you if you could implement Some some music sound stuff in your environment
19:43
this would be fantastic and also a wonderful thing to share music with other people for instance, like just Put some some some your song or your tune somewhere in your neighborhood and and and just make other people Explore what what you just left there as a little statement for instance
20:02
So I I really don't see this this Walt garden virtual reality thing headset on and you All alone with the music or whatever. I just see rather that you explore stuff in your environment
20:24
So I really like this idea also with regards to this thing that I really love to have more Context Coming with the music I like and I and again I see this rather in a in a mix of reality and information or context to
20:44
also for me to consume rather Help me to maybe buy some more things from a band or from a producer rather than being in this virtual reality bubble all by myself It's almost like going back to the days of having like a record sleeve and being totally immersed into that and it's really it's really cool
21:05
In that way because it's all I think you've hit on a trend there that we heard today for sure. Well done Eric it's all about added value and like having added like added information on that and Yeah, how cool is that? So even if you do have the the
21:23
Isolated experience of your headset and in your room alone Experience that that's almost like people always say people don't have the attention span anymore to listen to an album But if you've got your headset on and you're in a virtual reality world of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon I can I can see people spending that half an hour in their room exploring that and enjoying it
21:46
At least it is a really exciting New way of Experiencing music as well. Like we heard earlier. It's
22:01
Like especially electronic music is something that has always been about forming these soundscapes in a way and that already has some sort of like Even if it's if that happens in your mind, there is like visual attached to it so I think
22:20
It's a very very exciting technology That however as also we heard today is like still in his you know Early stages and basically the hardware is there Not so much content and From what I've seen so far is really in the music space
22:44
It's been videos that You know you Can now sort of with Google Cardboard or whatever? That's Crossing the line to virtual reality and I think it's important because if if I could say what I'm really looking for is music which makes you listen to music and perhaps we are is the
23:06
Answer because what we what we experience is that music is more or less an emotional wallpaper We put it on because we like the emotions but we immediately start to talk and and we even have the feeling we listen to the music while we talk and
23:21
And I think coming back to what we heard before is about the record sleeve and the experience of going to a record store and Being at home and living here listening to the lyrics is actually what is missing to me in a way the experience may give 120% of your attention to that music for that moment and perhaps we are can create that in a in a new
23:42
Experience where people give full attention, which I think would be great because that's a little bit missing at music is the full attention Also, let's face. It is like Super escapist and fun from everything that I've seen today people have a lot of fun exploring virtual reality at least for the first 10 minutes until they get very seasick, but
24:06
Spin up you can exactly it's been like it's a it's a fun experience new way of Experiencing music, but how about the creation side of things? Your startup is basically about
24:21
bringing musicians together in a collaborative Environment, could you see applying VR at some point to that meaning you meet? your co-creator actually in VR and Creating together I
24:42
Mean definitely it's in the near future. It's very possible just a short answer about what we're working with. It's a company called soundtrack and We have a recording studio in the browser and it's a collaborative recording studio Which means it's pretty much like a garage band Skype and text chat in your browser in the same window. So you do
25:03
you can Play together record together and video chat and chat as you do it. So it's all in the same window and Of course in some years if we apply VR to that, they'll be amazing You know, you don't just see somebody in the you know in the chat window. You will be able to
25:21
Basically It's like you'll be in the same recording studio together so I don't know how much time it will take to get to that point, but there's definitely the future of the project as I see it and currently we have We have quite a few virtual bands on the platform, which means Let's say I recorded some guitar reef and I need to add bass and drums and maybe ukulele
25:46
At some points and I would find musicians all over the world Connect with them invite them to my project and we would basically design this virtual band together so if at some point we all wear like VR devices and
26:03
Play it together. That would be mind-blowing. So I think that's that's where it's all going eventually Last thing on the I know we're fishbowl guys We have an empty chair here. So please feel free to join us
26:23
Especially on that subject of VR. I know that's been dominating Republica or at least the music day and I Mean, is it just a hype? Do you have any opinions about that? Come and join us
26:41
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, I'm no stranger to this stage
27:07
There's been a lot of talk today about AR and VR which is all very exciting and very stimulating But we had a lot of buzz about 3d in the cinemas about ten years ago. Where is that now? The add-on is always interesting at the moment
27:21
But I want to come back to something that this gentleman said because we're missing a point Music is essentially to be consumed by hearing Not necessarily by seeing of course. We've always had the live performer We've had the street musician We've had the classical concert for 600 years and we are in a position where we can still go to see rock
27:43
Musicians or musicians play live on stages. Thank goodness We may well explore the opportunity of seeing a virtual reality Performance and enjoying the sight sound and even possibly the smell of being next to someone that hasn't washed Will you see how far technology will bring us?
28:00
But I've been working in music and with young people for the last 40 years and I have noticed one trend which is quite sad that in the last 40 years people have stopped listening to music and Are consuming music visually and that for me is a problem in many ways I don't want to expound on that problem But I'd like to come back to the point the basic point is that music is an audio sense
28:24
It appeals to our audio emotions Of course, we can enhance that and whatever technology will come along will be used and will be exploited Unfortunately, I use that word deliberately But I just wanted to make the point that let's be thankful that we have wonderful equipment here Still to be supine not to be supine hasn't been surpassed by technology and maybe one small PS at the end of my delivery
28:49
Making music and the way that we make music over the last 50 years has changed very little The way that we consume the way that we market and we appreciate and listen to music has changed far more Dramatically than the way that we make music. I've tried rehearsing with someone using Skype. It's not perfect
29:06
It can be done. You can send files across the world, but it's not instantaneous So we've a long way to go about moving into a world where music making is Totally digital and doesn't need the human interface. Maybe that's a good thing, but I'm going to stop now
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Thank you very much for listening I just want to remind people that we have ears for listening to music with a long way We'll continue to do so Should we stop here
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Also the other main sort of recurring theme That we've taken from today I think is really going back to how technology can empower artists and There's been a lot of talk about shifting hierarchies
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maybe What are your key ideas here, what's what have you taken away from how Technologies actually can empower startups and then especially if you look at You know the streaming Market, is it is technology really empowering artists?
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You know, it's such a I know this is a really broad question But I think because we haven't discussed streaming at all Well with regards to streaming I think a lot of artists that have Spoken out with outrage and against the concept. Just don't
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Know very much about it have been very informed and if you're not very informed you get scared I'm just gonna go ahead and speak on behalf of the artist community here I Innovation is is great and tech startups and streaming is great and there's no way of going back
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You know, we can only go forwards. I think the problem with Streaming is that artists have been excluded in the conversation. How do you define a stream? we still actually don't have a definition of what it should be
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Legally is it's something because it's somewhere between a radio play and a sale and it's neither really it's something else But those contracts have been drawn up and we've got an NDA's non-disclosure agreements between those three massive companies and the streaming services and a whole lot of revenues generated and Spotify pays out 70% of their income on royalties, but that doesn't trickle down. So
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Yes to streaming but no to Excluding artists in the conversation So so that's really where the disconnect is. It's the same with YouTube right now in the States We've got all these high-profile
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Dare, I say quite old-school artists saying boo YouTube You're not paying out Universal's suing SoundCloud but I don't think Yes, we need to look at the safe harbor thing and yes, we need to go away from tech companies going
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Oh, it's gonna nothing to do with me. Well, it's not my responsibility. What's on my platform, but The innovation is is good what I'm I'm aware that I'm rambling because it's beer time now, but The the one thing that gets me is that all these new things are great, but
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They're just more middlemen Between the artists and the audience and it feels like the person that needs to pay out First is always the artist get this service then you can do that like this new service will answer all your questions beyond this new platform beyond this new social media and I just think as
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Fantastic and positive as all these developments are it needs to be it needs to be streamlined It needs to be simplified this new digital age should mean a simpler music consumption For everyone and that should results that should result in Generating money that will ensure that people can continue to make music. I mean, isn't it also that you know
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the music business is run by big technology companies who are Not necessarily they don't come from a music point of view. They come what they want to do is to
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Attract more consumers into buying their hardware so When everybody uses music like that, you know, I'm gonna steal a quote from Fran Healy He was like musics like I'm not going to try and do the Scottish accent There is a musics like candy that people lay out to attract people like come to my shop come to my restaurant buy my thing
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And that's that's the problem that that is the that is what it does because it connects on people on such a deep emotional level But we need to yeah recognize and Remunerate the people actually creating it fairly. We need to update that whole system
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We had a roundtable discussion or be it a private one in Research that's taking place now about streaming and where we're at in the artist community with it And if you look at the rough split Who says that the record label should have roughly 50% of it that's an outdated figure coming from like no
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But that's an outdated figure that comes from a time when major labels still spent a lot of money and time on Nurturing and developing acts and they don't do that anymore I think I think it really I think it really depends Roxanne I think I think what you always can say these days is who holds the risk is holding the rights and that
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Works on both sides if you're an artist who says I can take the risk of my career You're in a position to help get 90% of all your incomes. You're talking financial risk financial Yes, and if you on the other hand, you are a young artist to say I could do it on my own But I would like to have a proper video and I would like I need to support
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You probably end up at the other side of only getting 20 or 15 percent and I think what you're saying is very easy to attack Especially but I think it's always about the risk and the rights you're right and I agree with you, but where's the financial risk if
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The person you're investing in gets nothing until your entire investment has been recouped I see I see I think that's I mean that's always down to individual doing contracts and and and I luckily We have now 15 or 22 thousand independent labels and we probably have
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400 self-releasing chart artists all over the world and you no longer Dependent on the gatekeepers and I think people who are signing stupid deals should not complain that they signed a stupid deal I totally agree with you on that. But even the standard indie deal is 5050 and The 5050 is you it's still in which you have in no other industry
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please correct me if I'm wrong, but even the best indie deal is A 50 50 percent split on the profits after we've recouped our entire investment That is a standard indie deal. No, I don't necessarily think it's a standard indeed. I mean I have deals which are 90-10 to my disadvantage and I'm happy with that
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I have deals which are 90% in my favor and I think it's a worst deal I ever done I think you can't mix one fits all it's very individual. Where do the artists and where there is then? What is the investment and that's very individual and I think there are many artists out there We have a 50 50 deal who are out there in love for the amount of money
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They make and there are other ones that say we actually should do more I think it's it's what I take out today is that the music industry is accused for many things Which don't happen and I think that's wrong. I think that's Fundamentally wrong because nowadays the access to market is extremely flat
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Everybody can self everybody can produce very inexpensively everybody can release their music very inexpensively And you can market take your music very inexpensively your social media, you know So you have an access to market and all artists we are signing our self releasing artists who created their own
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Fan base who created the only way to do it now really we created a heat level which we say Oh, come on. We want to work with you So I think it's all possible and I think we have to be careful of not generalization and especially if I see people saying the be creating a business model whereby
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The majors are squeezing all artists. I think it's just these days are over these days are over and I think And also to criticize Europe's and it's like one thing you said today. It's look I'm in a company and I would love to have more women in my decision-making processes within the company if I advertise for a job I
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get 90% male application 10% female application and I struggle to find well skilled Women for my positions and this problem is not that I don't want to employ them The problem is it starts with socialization in the childhood. It starts with what they study
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It starts with what they I couldn't agree more Yeah, I have the UK Music Board say the same thing to me about race saying we would love to have more black musicians on the board, but I can't find any and it's Yeah, of course. It's an education thing
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It's the fact that from it so we're kind of going back to this gender conversation now, right? But it's the fact that from a really early age Both boys and girls are done a total injustice by being targeted. This is for you and this is for you Right. It's the fact that yeah girls don't grow up with those role models and they don't grow up with the
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Chemistry sets and the war toys and the and the robots and the guitars advertised at them They have the cooking stoves advertised at them and the pretend Barbie dream house. So yeah, absolutely. It's first and foremost a matter of education and Where our society is at and reinforcing that positive role model
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We've got to stop telling children what they can and can't do depending on their gender or their race So yeah, I couldn't agree with you more Because then I misunderstood your presentation because I saw it a little bit like Establishment doesn't give access for women to come into music and I could say I can only say I would love to have more Women and it's very difficult to find good skilled
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Educated women in the music industry. Well, I There's certainly no shortage of very well educated skilled women in the music industry. So perhaps But when we see our applications which are coming in it's we always because we prioritize Female for our positions and we always struggle to find them and it's why do you advertise out of interest?
40:26
We are we do LinkedIn we do we do I don't know CMU music week Yeah, you know, okay just as a quick aside because I know I feel like I'm monopolizing the conversation here I was just in the big in the main hall on a talk about
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our data imprint that we leave and the future of that and it was so interesting and it was saying that how It was talking about artificial intelligence. And if you typed in a Google search for CEO What are the top pictures that come up they're white men in suits and if you fed that information to an algorithm
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It what it would conclude from that is this is what a CEO looks like and then if you have targeted advertisement for a job in a certain income bracket they found that For instance, those adverts aren't served to women. So you're actually not even seeing that job ad
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so I'm certainly not saying that that's happening with your adverts, but I thought that was a really interesting aside But yes, I I totally I totally agree with you except for the fact that yes, there are there are a plethora of highly skilled
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Women out there in the music business. Hopefully more soon. Yeah, I Think to some point though. You're right. It is a socialization thing where You only see women like especially in the like in dance music breaking through now or in the past few years and really sort of appearing on the surface where I
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You know, I like we can talk from personal experience, but it's not something Girls are not given To decks and a mixer from when they're two years old Like when that was like 20 years ago, you know, like when when guys get into
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making music or DJing like they did 10 20 years ago It wasn't as accessible to Women it is much more now, I think and it's definitely changing but I think you do have a fair point
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I would like to come back to streaming because What I think what I because we spoke with streaming before and I what I think is very interesting in streaming is We see there are that that every consumer is looking for their own streaming service partner
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And I think that has a big potential for the market to grow and I think it started What amazed me most is that the Apple music advertisement was mainly driving Spotify subscription which means which clearly showed that in real music lovers and all the music nerds go to Spotify and
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Suddenly now Apple music is close to 22 or 30 million They're going they have a completely different kind of audience. That's more goes into Fashionable they go into China because people have iPhones so we never expected that
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Apple music would be able to grow such a fan base outside the spotify fan base without cannibalizing that and and I think it's going to be more more interesting what comes next but for instance if Netflix goes into Into streaming that's going to be again a completely different audience to what Apple music and and Spotify has and
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One of the question was what comes next in or is there still a market for streaming and I think yes there is Because I think streaming is Really going into your social environment and wherever you are is where you want to stream your music with the brand you trust And I think there's loads of space for new music streaming services
44:24
And I hope you guys there are going to program it and bring them into the market We just had this discussion recently here also with Barbara on the Twitter timeline I was just about to ask you We were seeing like this This big problem of unique content
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In the streaming business and we see all these pre-release marketing ideas like Beyonce just Releasing a new album on title and so you got all these these these these walled gardens again each So my feeling as a consumer is like each
45:04
High profile Artist needs its own app or a streaming service nowadays. So what's your your perspective on this? Phenomenon, I think the exclusivity is driven by market share. I think the reason why
45:20
Apple music and other going into exclusives is mainly to drive their market share up Because they you have everything on Spotify and Spotify is very much against exclusive because they have a lot of consumers I'm personally also against the exclusive even I'm always tempted to do this marketing deals Because exclusives are driving people again back into piracy
45:43
Because it's like if you have your 999 sub Spotify subscription and you want to have the exclusive and it's not on Spotify You go into piracy again and again you driving people who have a business model of using music But not sharing the the income and that's not good for all of us
46:01
So I think it's It's a difficult one in a way because it's a great marketing tool to be in a position of say I'm giving something exclusive to Apple music. I'm going to have wallpaper all over my cities I have access to a marketing budget I cannot afford by myself but on the flip side of that is you you you enhancing piracy. I agree
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I think you can do that if you are like Beyonce or Adele And Also, as you were saying people go with the brand that they trust and you can't change so difficult to change people's Listening behavior like a fun fun fact. I heard that
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rainbows in rainbows radioheads in rainbows album that they put out for Free or pay what you want was the most illegally pirated album in that month of the release Which only you know, that's just wherever you get your music from that's where you're gonna get it from Yeah, okay. So we're coming slowly to an end again. This is a fishbowl. So
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someone has Something to say please get up and join us Do you really think there's room for startups to enter the streaming market? Oh, yes
47:28
Hello So talking about screaming I'm gonna I have different heads actually And now I'm put on my user digger head
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Exclusives actually So I talked a lot with friends so some of them in they have Amazon Prime for movies But they also have Netflix. So I think that user are more They want to pay more for movies than for music streaming actually
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They really do not care if they have three subscription models for movies But for streaming streaming is music is just a thing. It's like a candy is that before which is really a great Thing so with exclusives You don't drive anything
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You can as an indie artist you can do an exclusive if you want to make a promotion for your new bandcamp Account or something like this, but the moment you're a big artist like Beyonce last week I Pirated it immediately and usually when I steal music I buy it as soon as it it's available on my service or whatever
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Beyonce, maybe not. I don't know But I think it's very important that we and the future will be that the the the young people They get wherever they can get it. They are not loyal to companies. They really don't care
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Is it an Amazon? Is it a Spotify? They don't care. They want to hear this Beyonce. I won because it's the shit and and one Adding to you and commenting on your all your data scan. Oh, is he still you still there about? Like this focus on audio Content or music is audio. I
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always have this 18 year old daughter of my girlfriend in mine and she doesn't give a shit if it's like audio video whatsoever It's like all the same for her It's just like music in some form and if you have like the capacities you watch the the video But basically you don't care you just grab what you get
49:42
and another thing I wanted to you your The acoustic is really bad here, huh? So I really like what you said but I would like to add one more thing because with all these new possibilities
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The music is coming also to people who are not looking for it. So I think we are getting a new new audience on top of everything and The audio feel people, you know, they're the people who are really like this vinyl or the You know the quality they are still there and they can they don't have to drive
50:25
They don't have to fly to Brazil to get a whiner, you know, you can have it at home so I think it's the audience is growing what we have to take care now is Just to share the money somehow more equally. This is and and to give more transparency
50:42
To all behind all these things but we are in the beginning and so we have a lot of time that Somehow it will be solved. I mean pop music top 10 charts music is a totally different thing We are we don't have to talk about but in the music, I think there are Way more people out there now who are willing to pay
51:03
And I have a lot of friends and I am really religious like use bandcamp use bandcamp since years already And they are talking to me they are telling me it's really cool Barbara the people are actually buying my music I think on the on the sharing side. I think you know, it's like there has been also this
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Initiative about the worldwide independent network of signing this code of conduct How actually music labels are paying their artists and I think that's the right step into the right direction You know that we as independence labels We can agree that we share all incomes with our artists and we can agree a fair treatment and I think
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organizations like impala and we're not speaking also to your organization to actually develop a Stamp of actually saying we want to prove something We want to prove music that this music is released on the fair trade, you know And I think that's really where we need to come to
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You know to actually also be vocal about that There are different types of industries because I'm getting a little bit nervous when I see this industries about the bad music industry If I could if I could imagine three, I would say they have a bit different business model I would necessarily not call them bad, you know, and I think that's that's that's important
52:25
Okay. Thank you Are there any more questions from the audience? Do you have anything to add?
52:43
Only that I was wondering whether we were gonna mention blockchain, but we probably ran out of time now I Think we need to make this work for everybody. You know, I think there's a place for Certainly think there's a place for labels. I even think there's still a place for major labels
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I just think there's no place for in transparency anymore So and I do think we've got all the tools now to make it work for everybody. It's just gonna take a bit of Shaking You know what? I always wondered why has Google or Facebook never bought a major label. What keeps them away from that
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Why they've never bought a major label Why would they do that because because because their business model is based of devaluation of music Because as cheaper music is more people are going it using Google and who has cheaper music is as more traffic
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There is as more advertisement Google is going to sell so there's a conflict of interest between people who are using the emotions of music to drive the value of music down in order to enhance their traffic in order to sell more advertisement and that's a conflict people like Google and the content industry have Google hates copyright because they know copyright makes music expensive
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Whatever is expensive has less traffic and has less advertisement Just Just one one one announcement before we Stop here because there's another talk coming up right afterwards on Blockchain technology and the music business. I think you were just about to start but yeah if you're interested in like new
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technological aspects and transparency Also from an artist perspective. You should definitely stay here and see the talk coming up now Cool thank you so much everyone. Thanks for an inspiring talk and
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wish you wonderful rest of the evening and Thank you