Welcome everybody, I hope you had a good lunch, I hope you're not here for a nap. I'm Jeff Bowman, I'm the IT manager for the Mountaineers. There's my email, feel free to contact me with questions or hit me up in the hallway out there. First of all, quick overview

of what I want to talk about today. Who we are, so you kind of get an understanding of what our needs were. We're an end user of Plone and Salesforce, so I'm not a developer, though I did plenty of Fortran programming as a grad student, some other stuff as a chemical engineer, managed some projects, written a little bit of HTML, NoSQL pretty well from our old database.

So I know a little bit, but I'm by no means a developer, so this is definitely end user talk. I'll take you kind of through our high tech journey of launching a new platform, and then how Plone helps us, how our instance of Plone and Salesforce work together, and then a little bit about how we use Salesforce and what we use it for. So who are we, the Mountaineers?

Our kind of motto is explore, learn, conserve. Our mission is helping people explore, conserve, learn about, enjoy the lands and waters of the Pacific Northwest and beyond. We're headquartered in Seattle, but we have trips go out globally to a certain extent. We have a publishing reach of all over the world too, so that beyond part is important to us.

Well, we're in Boston, and quite honestly, our history, even though it's 110 years, doesn't quite match Boston, but we've been around for a long time, so we have a lot of ingrained things in our existence, and we've added a lot over the years. We serve a lot of diverse audiences. We have kind of the general public climbing community,

hiking community, sea kayaking community. We do tons of stuff outdoors, so we have tons of little communities that interact with us. We have guest people that come try stuff with us without actually buying a membership or doing much beyond that. Some of those people turn into members who pay annual dues to be a member and do lots of stuff with us. We have a very rich volunteer core at all levels, from our board of directors all the way down

to somebody just leading a hike or helping teach a course. Of course, we're a 501c3, so we have donors, people who give us money. That's something relatively new to us and part of why we adopted some of the technology that we did, and of course, we have a staff, so we have people that actually get paid to do stuff for us, and all of these groups need access to web tools, other technology tools,

and of course, we really don't cater to any one age group, adults, youth, families, pretty much everybody, so we have a pretty broad range of needs that need to be served. We do many things, as I mentioned. We have activities and trips. We offer courses, clinics, and seminars, special events like film festivals,

youth programs, book publishing, and just to put some numbers on it, in the last year, we had about 2,200 trips with 3,000 unique individuals participating and 14,000 total, so each person doing more than one trip. For courses, those numbers are about 217, 3,600 unique individuals and 6,400 total students.

Conservation, we have a pretty rich history. We have done a lot with the Worldness Act, and a lot of lands in Washington are preserved because of stuff we've done. Special events are things like film festivals, gear grabs, fun seminars at our program centers. We do youth programs.

We have a youth outreach where you work with youth groups and schools to put on outdoor programs. We have some different age group year-long programs for students we call Pioneers, Explorers, and Mountaineers Adventure Club. We also have a summer camp that runs about five or six individual weeks in the summer. And finally, we publish books. We have about 500 titles in print

of all flavors of guide books, instructional books. This Mountaineering Freedom of Hills, that's our flagship book that kind of launched our book publishing in 1960. It was our first title and still kind of our breadwinner. Here's a little bit about our high-tech journey. The first thing, first database I heard we have was a bunch of ring binders on a Lazy Susan

on a round table with our member services team around there taking phone calls and writing stuff down in the book. That eventually morphed into our relational database called ARAV, and then we got this kind of nice IMIS system by Advanced Solutions, and it was a very data-driven website. Didn't look too good, wasn't too easy to manage.

You had to know ColdFusion and HTML, stuff I learned, SQL, so those are some skills I picked up when working on that old website. Somebody decided we should give it a facelift. We called the project Lifts on a Pig, made it look better, but it didn't work any better. You still had to know HTML to do anything on it, make anything look halfway decent. So we decided we needed something new.

We started looking. We gathered feedback from our members, our volunteers, our guests. We used this wonderful system called UserVoice. It's a two-part system. It's got a way for people to say, I suggest you, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it can tell us. Other people can vote for it. People get up to, you can specify how many votes, but we gave them 10. Kind of think about what's most important to you,

so that kind of helped drive what we want to do with our system. We, the other side of it is customer service, and we use that for incoming, this is broken, I need help with this kind of stuff. After a long RFP process, as complicated as we were, not many shops wanted to work with us. We only got two. One was our former provider,

and one was a company called GroundWire, who went under after they had kind of got us ready to launch. And then some of the GroundWire folks became Percolator Consulting, and they brought us Jazz Cardis. Those are two kind of wonderful partners that shepherd us through this whole process. They helped us identify who our superpowers are. Our volunteers were probably A number one. Courses and trips were what attracted the most people.

Our general community outreach and kind of respecting the community of we're the ones that know how to do this safely. And our content, our books, huge reach all across the world. They helped us prioritize what was most important to do, and in what order. I would almost put simplify first, because we are pretty complicated, and that's quite the most important thing

any of us could do. But they said we need to create great online experience around our courses and trips. It's good looking content, images, text you could format, make things look good, not just words on a page that blah, blah, blah, blah, don't look all that great. Offer great content to potential members. We got our great books, but we really don't have a good online presence.

Pages didn't look that good. It was hard for, you know, I had to update them in one other guy in the shop who knew HTML. Two of us having to update all the content on my website is impossible to keep up with, have anything good out there. We're forever changing spelling and grammar and not actually putting out new content. We wanted to build an easier on ramp for potential members. It was really hard for somebody to join us.

They had like two, three pages worth of junk to fill out to even become a member, and most people would probably stop mid-page, and that was it, we'd lose them. And we wanted to build a foundation for connecting members to one another. They really had no way to do that in our old website. The other thing is we had a little trouble reporting on things that matter to us. I was the only one in the house who knew SQL, and I was the only one that could write reports,

and the best I could do was maybe a little bit in Excel where they could run something and update it there and get some stuff. Otherwise, I was the only one that could gather, get data out of our system. And of course, like I said, simplify, but that should probably be first. Simplify everything. They helped us choose a good set of platforms to work with. Plone and Salesforce is a big combination. The other two things over there,

how many know Salesforce? Know Salesforce for you? How many know Plone? Everybody's hands, come on, all of them. Stripe is a payment processor. How many know Stripe, anybody? It's been wonderful, it was great, easy to integrate. Anybody know Acumen? No, it's very specific, David does very well, I might add.

It's very specific to the book publishing industry. It's a great system for warehouse inventory, online sales, author royalties, account, the book accounting practice, all that kind of wonderful stuff. So it's a little hard to use, but we have kind of integrated into our Plone, Salesforce, Stripe platform.

We play a lot of poker. Agile development, that's another thing that Jazzcard and Perclayer brought to us. It's a wonderful, wonderful tool as our project progressed, we could make changes on the fly. We could decide, okay, this is not going in the right direction, we could change that. If we took something, we thought this was really easy and it was harder, we could spread it out

and move things around. So that was a wonderful process and we've been doing that for three and a half years now and it just amazes me how easy it is to use and how flexible it is. This is kind of a rough schedule. Up when we started the project, there's a little pre-discovery with user design, visual theming, we did, our website launch

was 20 iterations and we've probably done, do you think we've done 20 since then, David? Probably not quite. Maybe 15, 14, 15? A dozen. Yeah, we've done at least a dozen since then, so we've added a bunch of features. Data migration and testing, of course, through the whole process, the end testing was,

we actually got volunteers to test for us, so the last couple of months was really testing, lots of bug fixing. Data migration was kind of a big thing for us. The team did a wonderful job of giving us a repeatable process based on Transmogrifier with a UI where I could export all of our data with SQL, have a nice CSV, upload it to the website,

and there was our data. And that was important because we have lots of data to migrate and we had to update that. We have one of our probably big things is the routes and places database that help us prevent conflicts when we're scheduling activities. And we needed that to also look on the website, but of course, it had no images, no good text.

It was just a title and a wee bit of data. So we needed to get those in our new system and have a bunch of volunteers actually adding content, adding photos if they could, adding good descriptions, making sure all the data was accurate, getting rid of duplicates that existed within that system. So that was a wonderful, wonderful tool for us. Of course, we used GitHub for our code database

and for tickets. And David and I have a pretty good system worked out for this is urgent, get it done right away. And every month, we send them a top 10 of things to work on. So that's been a great help to us. And of course, Scrumdoo's what we use for agile development, all of our user stories.

How many, anybody Scrumdoo uses out there? It's a good tool. I think they've upgraded since we're, is there a diversion of what we're using now? That's the new UI that we're using. Yeah, okay. A couple things weren't the best UI, but I found ways around them. But it's a great way to write out our project and decide what we're gonna do when,

if we'd be easy to swap stuff in and out. And one of the things I have discovered best about this process is now that we're beyond launch, I spend a little time well before any planned iteration with the developers to actually estimate all the stories to make sure we can get done what we need to. And if we can't, we rearrange things appropriately. We also use Google Analytics.

Kinda helped us inform our website design. And we also recently added a mobile theme. It helped us decide what was most important to do first there in case we couldn't get everything we wanted. And we also, as you'll see soon, we use it to kind of inform our most popular blog, Portlit. Okay, so let's dive into what our website looks like.

It's beautiful, easy to use. That little one to the right there, that's a mobile homepage, and behind it is our regular homepage. We got a beautiful, good-looking, well-working website. Alex said we just launched mobile. Some things to note there, we also upgraded to SaaS to make our CSS easier to upgrade.

And also, oh, David, what was it called? Auto prefixer to put in browser prefixes. So those are two things I think helped the developers make it easier to update and work better overall. We also deploy our website onto web, Amazon Web Services, using their OpsWorks.

We use some archetypes from Plone 4.3, which is our level of Plone. At some point, I'm sure we'll upgrade to five. The two big things we got out of it that we really needed the most were these blog posts and pages where our staff, our volunteers can go in, update content without needing to send anything to me.

It's wonderful to me to sit at my desk and not have a bunch of requests going, I need to fix this page, I need to add this here, can we put this info there? So this is fantastic. And that most popular blogs portlet, David wrote a wonderful little tool for us where it pulls from Google Analytics the number of times this blog was viewed in the last week and those are how we've determined

the top six or so blogs there. We, of course, wanted our members to interact with one another, so we wanted to have a member profile where you could have a picture, a biography, some info about you, your favorite activities. We're also, of course, being conservation-oriented interested in carpooling so people can put up default carpooling information so we register for activities,

it kind of facilitates them organizing themselves. Oh, let's see, anything else here? No, oh, important, this is a custom, a dexterity content type, but it's connected through membrane to the user archetype and we did that so that we could actually do faceted searches and have a member directory,

a volunteer directory, that kind of stuff based on the contact records. And that's me, by the way. Okay, the other thing we got were badges in our old system, we're kind of scattered all over the place we had, we have six branches all over the Puget Sound and a lot of them like to call courses different things

and we get lots of questions from people that were close to a couple branches going, how are these two things different? This was our kind of one way to say, this is a basic climbing course, this is a backpacking course, this is what you learn when you finish this, you get this no matter which branch you get it at, so this was a big thing for us, too. And of course, it's content-rich, we've got these nice badge images that look great when they're big on a page

or small on somebody's profile. This is what they look like in my profile. So we got some course badges and leader badges there and that, it also tells people what our skillset is, what have I learned, what do I know, we also have some award badges to award volunteers or members who have hiked so much or climbed so much. So it's another wonderful part of our system.

Faceted search, we have a bunch of faceted searches all based on the EEA facet navigation and solar, our activities, routes and places, trip reports, courses, clinics and seminars, instructor opportunities so we can get volunteers to help teach our courses when we need them, a volunteer search, if we're looking for somebody who's got a special skillset, there's a way they can specify

what their skills are, what their interests are, and we can go find them when we need people. And also, our site search, we turned that into a faceted search so we could actually make it easier to find all of our content. It's kind of different than, what is it, the standard clone search? It's just a normal search. We replaced that with a faceted search that's working quite well for us. We also added some sorting capability to that too

that we'll probably add to our other faceted searches. We put it on a map, so all of our routes and places and activities and trip reports have a way to add a point or two on a map, and we can search, we can do searches that show results on a map. We used a thing called product.maps,

it's a Google Maps add-on with a little bit of customization. Here's a look at, if somebody does a search, it comes to a course page, this is what it looks like. Part on the right there is what you see to kind of the bottom part of the page. It's for a learnable A course. This is a great way to give people just quick information to talk about

when this course is, when it's happening, nice image to the right, and then that bottom we call tab nav area. It lists their course requirements like that's all of the lectures and field trips and things they need to do to complete the course. There's a roster which we'll see an example of in a little bit. Any required equipment they have, and then course materials. Also, if there's some handbooks, student syllabus,

quizzes, whatever, we can put all those there. And being Plone, it can be a file upload, it can be an image, it can be a link out to somewhere else. We're looking at working on eLearning platform that will probably somehow integrate through that where they can go out and do bits and pieces there. We also wanted a shopping cart. In our old system, it was really hard to buy stuff. It was literally one at a time.

You couldn't put a bunch of stuff in a cart and check out. So we wanted somebody to be able to join, sign up for a course, buy a book, anything they wanted, one transaction. So that's where Stripe helped us out, and all of that's integrated into one place. And then we got a membership, a book, and this Learn to Play class, all in one cart and one checkout process.

We also made a really wonderful, flexible promo code system that helped us simplify. So we had like 20-some membership types we crunched down to six, and we used some promo codes for other things like out-of-state membership, somebody wants a low-income membership, we can give them a discount, that kind of stuff. So this shopping cart was another big, wonderful thing that helped us simplify and make our members' lives a lot easier.

Rosters, so once we're signed up, we got a bunch of people on a course. Our leaders can go in. If they need to add somebody like an instructor or somebody's taking the course for free or somebody auditing the course, they can add them themselves. They know who their leaders are. They know who all is registered for the course. They can do things like send email to selected people.

They can copy email addresses. They wanna use their own email client. If they need to update stuff, when it comes time to graduate people or whatnot, they can do that. And then we also have a download capability that they can actually download something to a CSV if they wanna do more detail analysis than we offer on the website. So we give them that ability to download some data.

And of course, in the rare chances that we get to cancel a course, we have an option for that too. But rosters aren't just for leaders. Remember that tab net area I showed you earlier? We also have a roster on that. This is the view that people, when they're registered for a course or an activity, can see. They can email each other. People can make their profiles private, in which case they would show up here in name only

but no link, no way to email them, that kind of stuff. So we have keeping privacy under wraps. This is a great way for members to interact with each other and either get group gear made, make plans for socializing after the activity, organize a carpool, that kind of wonderful stuff. Trip feedback.

We wanted our, if we focus on trips and courses, we give our leaders feedback to help them improve, let them know what they're doing well, how they could do things better. We use Plone FormGen for this. Pretty much as is for some things. For this particular one, a little bit of customization. We have put some other forms up for people to actually send us information like, I'd like to become a leader, here's my info, or I've already taken that stuff,

I'd like to get equivalency, I don't wanna have to take that course, I already know how to do that kind of stuff so they can get a badge that way. Simple forms all the way to these that are more complex. And part of the reason we did that customization was so that we could aggregate the leader feedback and show it to the leaders, their committees, on a trip by trip basis, leaders have a kind of a my feedback page where they can see all of their feedback

for the courses they lead, the trips they lead. And to do this, we used the Save the Content adapter on Plone FormGen. Okay, community is one of our big things. We have, like I mentioned earlier, branches up and down to Puget Sound, all the way from, if anybody's familiar with that area, Bellingham's probably farthest north,

out to Kitsap, down to Olympia, across the water to Snokomie Foothills area. We've got youth outreach programs we've talked a little bit about. We've got two program centers, one in Seattle and one in Tacoma, where we can put on our, where our staff are housed and where we also do a lot of our kind of special events and a lot of our lectures and some of our training courses. I would probably say our Seattle programs,

both our program centers are kind of unique, climbing, outdoor education facilities in the country. So we can actually do a lot of our stuff there that we used to have to go in the field for. And of course, we have some outdoor centers, some ski lodges up around Mount Baker and Stevens Pass and where's the other one, the other one's kind of Snokomie Pass, Meany or Stampede Pass area.

Oh, let's see, nature thing. So for a lot of our special events, we of course want to put them on a calendar. And to this, we used FTW Calendar for displaying event. We can actually put events, activities and courses, which are all dexterity content types, onto the calendar,

which is a wonderful way for smaller branches to show, here's all the stuff we're doing so their calendars don't look so stark if they only do like one or two events. And then for other calendars, like our program centers where we've got tons of stuff going on, we can say these are just events, we're not gonna show activities and courses and all that sort of stuff here. Let's see.

We also wanted to make it easy for people to give us money so they don't actually have to get through a true like put this in my shopping cart kind of a deal. They click on a donate button, they come right here, they don't have to log in, don't have to create an account, they can just give us money. Of course, all this stuff is gonna be synced to Salesforce and we can do some de-duping there if people already have an account or already have a record and they could give us more than once

and we could actually get that recorded for them. So, like I mentioned, we have Salesforce. How do these two things work together for us? One of the things we do, we mentioned donating. Of course, we have campaigns and different funds and we wanted a way to kind of keep Salesforce and Plone in sync with each other so we can actually pull, we can,

and Salesforce is really easy to work in in terms of setting up campaigns, setting up funds, much easier to do it there than to build a whole other thing on the Plone side to do it. So we use Plone just to pull that information in so we can use it on a Plone donate page. We can say, anybody that donates on this page, it goes to this campaign or this fund or this combination of campaign and fund. So that's a wonderful tool for us there.

We sync a lot of data between Plone and Salesforce. Plone is kind of our main data generator, so it's an immediate push. Somebody buys something, signs up for a course, Salesforce right away. And we use Celery for that, is that right? I think last count of why I looked at,

we have about 1.5 million records in Salesforce between all of our kind of content types. So that's a lot of stuff. We also, because we work in Salesforce, mostly our kind of our fundraising team works there, if they need to update somebody's contact information, we want to make sure that got back to Plone. So we, four times a day,

we actually send just contact info like name, address, email, phone, that kind of stuff back to Salesforce. Or I'm sorry, back to Plone. From Salesforce, back to Plone. The nice thing is once we've got data in Salesforce, we can set up a workflow to trigger an email to that person. So if somebody signs up for a course or an activity, we can send them an email. And the nice thing about doing this in Salesforce

is we can automatically, because of Salesforce what it is, we can go in there and customize. We write that email, we can change the text, we can change the spelling. We don't have to ask Dave to do it for us. We don't have to have some special UI where we can actually go edit emails that we're sending. So that's a great, wonderful, wonderful piece of using Salesforce.

So a little bit about how we use Salesforce beyond those transactional emails. Percolator helped us build a engagement, what we call an engagement pyramid. Helped us understand kind of who our audience was and how they progress our organization. So people that just kind of find out about us are there on the bottom. And our visionary, our CEO, our board president,

people that have really come through the organization or have great vision for what we do, where we go all the way at the top and everybody in between. That kind of helps us figure out how to communicate with those different groups of people, because you're going to talk differently to a board president that you do to somebody that just walked in the door. So part of that is email newsletters and a welcome email series.

We have a handful of emails that go out every month. One called Route Finder, just general information about the organization, what we're up to, what we're doing. We have Conservation Currents, which is specific to our conservation and stewardship activities. We have activities and events to let people know what we're up to in terms of, hey, it's hiking season, or it's we got the film festival coming up.

We have Leader Lines, targeted our volunteers to help them learn how to be a better volunteer, what opportunities are available to them. And every branch has a monthly e-news that goes to just their branch members. We also have a few series. We have Welcome New Guest, Welcome New Leader that gets three or four emails over the course of up to six months. We have Welcome New Leader,

which is kind of a one-time, then like a follow-up a couple of months later email. And we have kind of an opt-in on the Plone side that gets synced to Salesforce. And then Salesforce, we use a thing called their Marketing Cloud. Used to be Exact Target, but now it's more and more integrated

with Salesforce itself. We can basically sync that opt-in so people opt, go to their Plone side, they go to Preferences, say I don't want to get that anymore, and that'll sync over and they'll stop getting email. If they want to opt-in, they can. So that's kind of how that whole chain goes. The other thing Salesforce is great about is tracking reporting. It's really easy to write a report in Salesforce.

The only downside is you kind of have to know the underlying data schema and have some grasp of good data analysis to know what question to ask and how to pull the data. So I can't just have my kind of staff write reports on their own completely, but I can write a report now and say here's your report. If you tweak this filter, you want a branch, you just change the branch there.

If you want a different date range, you change it there, and they're off and running. And there's some routine reports that are always gonna be the same date range, the same info, and it'll change based on look at last month, look at this month, that kind of stuff. So it's a great, great reporting tool for us to use. Made my life a lot easier. I write a report once. I'm done there using it. So I can actually write the same number of reports,

but be a lot more effective because everybody's getting the reports they need and they're off doing stuff on their own, and when they come to me, it's because they need something special for a change. We also can put together dashboards, and we've got a handful started, one for membership, which we have up here. Probably the most important statistic there is in the left we have nearly 12,000 members now, so that's up 10,000 about when we launched

is what it was. Helps us, this is what we measure, what we care about. This is a really good thing for us. We have a membership. We've got one for activities and courses. We've got one for our volunteers. We're working on one for donations, one for conservation, and we've also got one, every branch gets a dashboard about kind of statistics that are important to them.

So it's a really good tool, and we can put these out every month and they can see them. Of course, Salesforce is a license-based thing, and we only have license for our staff, so any of these that need to go out to our volunteers, we just make them a PDF and send it to them every month. And a big thank you to my friends at Plone, Sally, David, Carlos, Chris, Jim, Kim, Jesse.

Where did Plone come from? Holy cow. Editing, where's my editors? At Percolator Strategy, Chris and Karen have been a huge help to us. Their Salesforce crew is Matthew, Nicholas, John, Barbara, Drew, and Kevin for HTML and CSS. Daryl, who was a wonderful UX designer,

and Neil, our graphic designer. And of course, our Mountaineer staff, board directors, volunteers, everybody helped make the site what it is, supported it, paid for it, all that wonderful stuff. And thanks to all of you who helped make Plone such a great platform for us to be on. And our motto, the end is just the beginning, continual improvement, always adding new features,

always fixing stuff, so that's who we are. And the PloneConf.sixfeetup.com to say how wonderful this conference is. Any questions? Let's start here, work our way over. Can I license this? It's funny you ask, but the Mazamas

were beginning to embark on a web project and we were talking in that very question, and we were starting to talk about what can we do in that realm, and we just haven't really got anywhere.

Yes, talk to Sally. The gentleman sitting next to you is from WTA, and they have a similar Plone Salesforce setup, and I'm guessing they're, I've been to their site, and I know it looks a little bit like ours in terms of we do similar kinds of things

and have similar kinds of interests, so. And David has worked on there, so. I'm sure there's some synergy there that we're unaware of, or maybe are aware of. But yeah, they did a great job building what we need. And certainly Plone5 with being all dexterity content types I think will make some of what we did

that was more difficult and challenging even easier than what we did, so there's definitely an opportunity there. Yeah, I can also speak to that just briefly, just to say, I mean, there's definitely work that would need to happen to create a reusable thing out of this. Oh, totally. But I, we've thought about that a little bit because we have started some conversations

and there is some potential for that. Okay, who's next? We've built our own, but we have done some work since

on turning it into a reusable package for another client, which is in, well, I guess it's in our GitHub as jazzcarter.shop, but it is a little bit opinionated in terms of what it uses for dealing with tax and with shipping, and it's just using Stripe

as the payment processor, although there is, there was some attempt to anticipate people adding different adapters to other services. In terms of its scope, it does a lot of what the old Plone Get Paid used to do,

but in a lot saner way. I see Jens here, and I know Blue Dynamics has a shop thing too, which I don't know much about. I would be interested to know how it compares. Okay. First, I'd like to commend you on the beautiful website that actually went to the one you presented.

Thanks. I, especially for a non-profit, it's a great framework you've done. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on the discovery process and why you wanted to build Plone as opposed to any of the alternative CMSs out there. Ooh, well, we definitely decided not to stick with our current IMA system just because their upgrade

didn't really bring us all that much. It was still the old data-driven thing. They had added some stuff that made it look more like a website. Why we chose Plone, that's, I was really not involved in that decision. I was handed the project to make it work. Sally, were you around for that? Oh, I was hoping.

Yeah, part of it is, like I said, we started with a company called Groundwire who did our initial discovery, and then Sally and the company did some rediscovery. Yeah, the Mountaineers did an outstanding job of really anticipating their needs for the future, not just, is that better?

Sorry. Mountaineers did a great job of anticipating their needs and not just thinking of, okay, we're gonna spend X dollars this year, and then we're gonna ignore technology for the next five, like, so often happens. They really laid out a plan, and they spent, I think, two years fundraising for this very major initiative, as you can imagine from the website,

and also doing a discovery process with Groundwire, which was a non-profit technology consulting firm in the Pacific Northwest here in the States that focused on environmental non-profit, so this was exactly in their failure. So Groundwire had, David used to work for Groundwire,

and they have a lot of expertise on the engagement strategy side, like you heard, and a lot of expertise on the CMS side, and Plone was something that they were particularly focused on, but they looked at a lot of other things, and it seemed like a really good match. Then Groundwire went out of business, oops,

and then done this huge discovery process, and all of a sudden their selected vendor was gone, so that was a really interesting transition point, but because everyone had been so invested in the whole project, the people at Groundwire felt very invested in seeing the project go forward, so actually a number of the Groundwire people,

David included, and some of the people you saw the pictures of, actually went out of their way to make the project go forward, and Percolator was born out of that, and at that point they actually did another review of the CMSs on the market to make sure that Plone still, because there was a six month or eight month gap there,

they wanted to make sure it was still the best choice, so they reached out to at least Drupal I know, and I'm not sure all the CMSs they evaluated at that point, but they really wanted to make sure Plone was the best choice, and it seemed like the trade-off between what you got out of the box, and then the customizations you had to add afterwards,

and it seemed like Plone had the best bang for the buck of what they needed to do, so there were. The other thing that's interesting is that, I mean we thought long and hard about whether it even made sense to build this as a CMS project, I think in retrospect maybe you knew that more clearly than we did for a while,

I mean it felt like we're gonna build all this registration stuff, the rosters, that's all kind of custom stuff, the shop that we had to build on top of Plone, and maybe it would have been a little bit more efficient to build that on a platform that wasn't a CMS, but I think in the end it really made a lot of sense,

I mean the course and the activity pages, I mean the things that you're registering for do have a lot of content, and there's a lot of things that are very tied together between the registration stuff and the content stuff. And also the membership model, the fact that they've got 10,000 plus numbers

and they really needed a lot of those people to be able to have profiles and a large number of people to be able to actually author the courses, all that kind of stuff really made sense. I think we went in with our eyes wide open that we were such a complicated organization with so much breadth and depth that no matter what platform we chose, it was not able, and no platform would serve all of our needs, and we were gonna have to

heavily customize whatever we got, so it's kind of picking what was the easiest to customize that had most of what we need, we could handle that kind of customization, and I know Drupal could probably do it, but it sounds like it's harder to customize for some of the stuff we needed, and I can say, as a Plone user, I can say I think it's a wonderful platform.

I haven't worked with any other CMSs, so other than like WordPress, which I know would just come close, what we need. But yeah. Is there another question? Any more? So thank you, Jeff. Yeah.