we have Sven from Rango, and yeah, our two presenters. So, it's a mixed band. I'm very happy that we have Siemens Kamesa on stage. It was a little bit hard. We had to promise something. So, I guess I'll try, you're not here, of course, Siemens Kamesa,

you're just an interested private person who happens to work at Siemens Kamesa. Maybe to illustrate on this, so if you looked at who is participating, I checked and was happy to see that one of the companies with the most people present is Questas,

but they are not here on the panel, and the same is for some utilities. So, we have this whole challenge as an industry called we are a little bit crazy and outside. A lot of people are looking, and quite a lot of them might be looking really intensely, but to come up here on the stage and say something maybe, it's a whole different thing.

So, I'm really, really grateful that you are here, and I promise I won't say anything, that Siemens says anything about it. So, please feel free to just get your view as a women's industry on the stage.

Maybe I would like to start with a short self-introduction, like what you do with Siemens, and how you see the whole area. Yeah, absolutely. My name is Carlos Yopis. I'm working for Siemens Kamesa around three years almost.

I would say to the department of the corporate technology that we explore different kinds of technologies. We try to see what is the possibilities. We make our own calculation analysis and sensitivity analysis. And basically, we are just trying to explore and see how the market and how everything is moving forward.

And we are very interested in how crazy it is. So, yeah, that's exactly my area, or area in Siemens, of the crazy ideas. And I guess that we are crazy developers now. We'll try a bit. And for personal perspective, I'm a mechanical and electrical engineer and PhD in mathematics.

And I have been mostly in aerospace most of my life, and the last years I have been spending in the renewables, as I saw that it was like in the future of the humanity.

I think in the initial panel we have been discussing before. And I think it's a very promising area. And I think that these technologies could be like one of the technologies that could complement the different kinds of solutions. Yeah, maybe we'll just come down on that. If you look from our idea that when it was sooner or later,

the wind turbine manufacturers had to make a move to something else if this was a promising industry. On the other side, we've seen other industries where there's breakthroughs. For example, electric cars.

It was not the BMWs who were the first ones to enter. They had to be forced a little bit, because, yeah, they were outside. Maybe could you say something on this end? Maybe also from the perspective of wind, also competing with other renewable sources,

or also with any Siemens, for example, as the gas turbine, or any new gas turbine business. So how do you see this whole moving of technologies within Siemens, and how do you feel, is it important to be at something like Airborne?

I think, first of all, and possibly some of my colleagues were going to disagree, but I don't see Airborne. I see most of the time in most of the panels that Airborne is like a competition director of the wind turbine. In my opinion, as the same as PV. PV is not a competition director too, but they have a different market,

they have a different niche, they have a different perspective. Everyone has his own area, and I think that's an important part of most of the companies. They have to search the market as they would have to hit and basically try to get insight of the renewable market.

The big companies, of course, are trying to explore everything. I speak also about Vesta, so another big corporation that I know, like General Electric as well. They have to explore, of course. In this moment, most of the technologies that we spoke, I'm quite surprised how fast it's moving, this market.

It was like two years ago in this, and then also another position that was covered, and I'm super surprised in the last two years how it's moving forward. But we have to bear in mind that most of the companies start with universities.

That's not the position of the big OEMs. They can try to do some collaborations, so things like that with universities, but they are not adding a chance directly to the pool. A different perspective is a different strategy in the big corporations. We cannot compare small with big.

Thank you very much. I'm pretty sure there will be other questions for you later from the school panel. The next guest on our panel is Enkui Li. I think I stopped here because it's fascinating. I'm sorry. Thank you.

I studied physics when I selected aerodynamics because I was form of sailing. Then in 1982, I got involved in wind energy, and I immediately recognized the future of that, so I said, well, I will go for it. So first I did ten years of research, then ten years of technology.

Then I was hired as a managing director and a smaller project developer. Then in 2007, I started my own company, and from there, I'm now working with several companies to develop wind projects all over the world. So I did Kenya and the Netherlands to make yourself

and currently also working in Colombia and Honduras, especially in the Caribbean area, and I've been working on that since 1991, so I know what is required in that area. There is a huge potential for airborne wind energy, and because of the hurricane risk,

the diesel is very expensive, and the smaller islands where they only have like five to ten megawatts in stall power, it's too small for wind and traditional wind energy. Solar needs batteries, it's expensive, and then the next hurricane, all panels are gone.

So there's a huge market potential there. Of course, it will start with the real off-grid and then build up to the bigger islands, which are on-grid, and then it will go to the mainstream, and in 20 years, we will be all traditional wind circuit enemies.

So if the wind-grid factors are still hesitating to move, well, we have still some time to reconsider, but we can. But we will build that airborne wind energy will be cheaper,

and since people are looking for cheap power, because you don't compete with most technologies, you compete with power suppliers. People don't care about where the power is coming from, as long as it's cheap, in my perspective.

Yeah, I got interested last year, so I explored some technologies, and I decided to put my money where my mouth is in high power. So I'm currently a venture capitalist behind the company,

and a board member, of course, gives some advice, the very intuition, which is what we are. Maybe one question, because you are now an investor with equity,

but you are a bit popular. So how do you see that, where it is? So yeah, I'll be sure I will be the mover, so by the end of next year we will have to install the first three units at the wind farm in Curacao. We already have the three utility for solar power,

and so that will then already almost be processed moving, and the power price will be getting there. And yeah, that will prove the case for the rest of the Caribbean area, so then that will trigger the start of sales in the Caribbean Islands.

And then, of course, once it's proven there, then you can go to the Philippines, to the Pacific Islands, to so many islands, not like Asian travel. And indeed, the mines and all those, either operated or small,

the situations where the cost of electricity is higher because of these. And then once we have built up the series, then cost reduction will put in, and the market will increase, just like with traditional wind energy,

as the cost reduction keeps on growing and going down, and by cost going down, the market size will increase. Then we have comments from the large Mediterranean company.

Maybe you could quickly say a few words about the company. What do you do there? And then we kind of pre-discussed yesterday with a few drinks. Maybe you could say something about this floating structure which was really interesting, and in my view,

it brings into ways of collaboration, which is difficult. But who puts the size of the whole industry, that's also an interesting aspect. Yeah, sure. I'm very happy to be here. Yeah, my name is Wenn. I'm with Rumbold. A lot of us, you don't know their company. It's a large, unique firm,

so we have about 15,000 employees with 300 offices around the world. And I'm in the Hamburg office, and we do a lot of off-shore work there. A lot of big spot-in jackets and one-on-piles. Actually, I think almost 70% of all the install substrates today

are designed by Rumbold in the wind world. And we also, I'm kind of in the crazy section a little bit in the new services group, so we look at not maybe the traditional offshore applications, but more new things like floating, or also asset management for offshore wind structures. That's a really hot topic.

And, yeah, so now I'm very happy to have the opportunity to move a little bit into the airborne wind market and maybe see if there's also room for Rumbold to step in and provide some expertise in the offshore side. It seems to be like a strong momentum in this direction, at least in the utility levels, and that's nice to see.

And, yeah, so coming back to the comment on the floating side, so we are doing quite a bit of work on floating wind also, and it's kind of different levels. We're working with concept designers that have their own IP, which is somewhat similar to what I see in airborne wind with all these different concepts,

and we're working with them to kind of maybe just help with the expertise that we can provide for them to improve their technology, but we're also working with utility companies that are maybe interested in moving towards floating wind applications, but they're not really sure because of all these different concepts and consulting and comparing these concept studies

to do a little bit of a comparison of what technologies are. So this is a pretty common business concept I would say in the floating wind market right now. Yeah, one thing that we talked about yesterday that is also going on in the floating wind world,

and that's kind of borrowed from the offshore oil and gas, is actually these giant industry projects. In the offshore oil and gas world, there was a lot of work done in terms of technology development, R&D, huge sums were invested there. I think every once it was more money going into offshore R&D

for deepwater drilling than what was put into the moon landing, so that was substantial, and those guys realized that there's a lot of technology that maybe they have to work on together, like risers and other complicated things, and so they greatly joined industry projects where you could basically get together a group from the industry

and work on a specific topic, and that also is happening a little bit now, or quite a bit also now in offshore floating, where we've at least joined industry projects to look at specific topics that are difficult to deal with, where there may be some entities that have a lot of experience that are happy to work with a bunch of concept designers and work just with one entity,

and work on mooring systems and other topics that can go to all different concepts, and I think in the floating world, it was quite a successful approach so far, and that was something I wanted to bring as a message, I just want to say that I think the first thing I'd like to mention is

the carbon cost, which I think the government funding is getting at, which around the course of my work, I happen to be lucky enough to sit on that J&D record for the sake of eons, so we'll begin with this one,

it's a very good way of doing things, there are also a few domain courses, there are a few other domain courses, the carbon trust website, there is stuff there which is relevant to airborne as well, so it's a useful resource as well.

Thank you. Just one more question, I know you're more part of the research side, I still wanted to ask you where you can share, you just mentioned our chance for airborne energy

Could you say something about the strategy, or where you would, how far will you be to seize air or wind energy as tests have changed, or because you're willing to make sure that people understand? So it's quite an investment, not only status, but also your company made in

the last years. So on the subject of within RWE, it's a little bit difficult to say right now, so we've

gone through the first phase of our transition, so we haven't yet been combined with a single infrastructure. We know that a lot of the management is going to be similar people with similar interests, so I think we will continue to provide support in the same way. That's certainly our point, but it has the rest of our mind.

We're hoping to continue doing what we've been doing, and I think that at least our strategy will stay the same. And our strategy is, as I said, by key points where we can help get this to commercial success, because what we have to be doing is finding these devices and generating

them. So our general strategy is, yeah, buy the devices and see what we can do to get them better, and we can buy the devices. With the comments on this conference, the poll is mine. As I said, it's been really good conference so far.

I've learnt a lot. It's really nice to see some of the developments there, not just on the specific wife's purpose. I really enjoyed the session yesterday on the yearly settlement. We're moving more and more towards having sort of standardised tools or approaches to have standardised tools, which means we can start embedding air from the wind

within our own infrastructure. So we have a team in our building that specializes in resourcing the access to conventional wind, and we're moving towards having something that people don't say, this is having to do with rare wind, and that's been very helpful in getting the track here in conference. Successful in providing also more data for more of our members.

So let's see whether we will have a nice power curse, maybe for the next day or so. Okay. I think I will want to open up a little bit for questions, because I'm pretty sure there could be a lot of them.

So in terms of point structure offshore, for the fish farms, they've moved recently, probably the last 10 years, to HDPE pipe work, basically.

So basically, like our Dyneema lines, they have that identity polyethylene, as many green structures as anyone considers. But for offshore, this is still, we could be much cheaper than steel, we could be replacing steel with good software, et cetera, or with dyne, or with HDPE.

Has anyone considered an HDPE structure? So one thing I can say that, especially at Young, when you're in Dyneema, on the mooring side, obviously, there's this strong push. But also the buoyancy, the living empty pipes. Ah, for the buoyancy. No green structures or things like that.

Talking about floating winds, I know there's obviously traditional steel structures, and then there's concrete, also becoming a big topic now, to potentially reduce costs, and also to leverage local content, which has become a big topic. If you want to mobilize local government support,

then in some places it's easier to build concrete structures. But yeah, in terms of the other materials, I know there were some efforts looking into glass fiber buoyancy members, pressure vessels, but I don't think that was really pushed very far,

so at least not for the conventional building technology. I don't know, do you guys? Thank you. Thank you. When do you get interested in technology products, companies?

So right now, most of us are, we're building these small scale prototypes, or maybe they're actually not yet. It's probably most interesting to you. When do you get interested to get to it?

It's a difficult question, partially because there are so many companies doing really good work, and we are relatively small team, don't have time to work with everybody, so we, yeah, it's difficult to answer.

We're developing our test sites, so we're hoping to keep having problems sometimes there, and then we'll see all of them. We'll come back with a few case-by-case basis, and then we'll talk to a lot of companies. We don't want to be the people trying to pick the winners at this stage.

I have a question for Hank, pretty well interesting to project for you, that you've had over the past couple of years, Hank. You talked about a project that you guys at Kightower

are implementing hopefully by the end of next year, and you said it's going to be cost neutral with the utility. Would you give us an idea of what kind of costs you would feel like looking at here? Yes, in this particular term, we are getting 12 US dollars,

and it would be whatever. We think we are already at that level, so of course the next couple of months we have to prove it. So we know as project developer, we will not make real money on it,

but we are willing to invest to build up the coverage so then in the next phase we can develop projects in previous times which are comfortable for both the items and ourselves. And I assume the technology provider as well,

so not just the technology provider, also the developer. In that particular case, I will have two heads. So you make a profit between both sides? Yes, that's my preference always. And the 12 cents is the rating capacity of the equipment that's 100 kilowatt?

Well, we expect at least 75 percent capacity factor with that inventory achieving, and of course we still are concerned about the effects. We don't know how much kites we consume per month,

or per year. Of course we hope it's only two per year, but maybe it's four per year, but it's also, but yeah, the loading is always, it's always the same. And is it a generator size of the size of the equipment, 100 kilowatt?

Yeah, we will start with 100 kilowatt, and of course as soon as it becomes available, then we go through bigger scale. But yeah, as a project developer, we try to develop in most of the European islands, which we always did.

Because indeed, the hurricane risk makes insurance quite expensive, and the scale is too small. Now it has been a little bit of a change, but most of the manufacturers, if you say I have a project with 10 megawatts,

and they say I've got more, we will not put our staff to work to make calculations for you, to make a quote for your researchers to do a small project. So the same is with banks.

Currently you go to a bank and say, I want 10 million dollars, and they say, nah, on project finance basis. So it starts with 30 million, preferably 15 million, then you get some real attention from the smaller banks.

So it's only if you go real big, and it's a real big project in Kenya, 10 megawatts, 6 and a half, 6 and a quarter million euros, then you're sold. And of course we are far away from that.

We have one minute. Thank you. So I think we just asked for all the money that we have. First, I think you go to project finance, you even have approval for this. And for that, you need certification.

And indeed, you have to show a couple of years of, this is the plan. But I'm sure we get there. And a question for Carlos. I understand that, you know, as a private person, where do you see, in case you go back to your policies,

you say, some interest in technology, perhaps you should do something there. Where do you see the activities of students, or what could students do, or where do you think you could further investigate over the next years to also support the sector? Would you see a role of just watching,

or could you do something actively? Hey, that's a complicated question to start. The corporations are mostly these kind of corporations. So if like Siemens, Vestas and Electric, they have different kinds of watchers, they would just report,

we'd just do much more than that. These strategic departments and strategic systems that is behind, that would take a decision. So today, we are just a crazy department. Right now is, I guess, at all the industries, and I'll let Vestas as your point is here,

he will be just watching and getting information. Right now, it's a very risky market, with high benefit, high benefit with high risk, but that's the reason that this company will try to keep low and see how we will evolve the technology in a couple of years and see how it goes.

But I don't know, every company has its own strategy, I wouldn't say. Would you, for example, consider the inquiry of the week that you had before, to be the parts you have to use, such as banks and things like that, to be able to see how it will evolve?

I will relate to one of the studies that last year I read, but it was exactly that. They were very interested in recovering this type of technology. That question specifically is not to assume it. We don't own it. Yeah, no, that's totally the same. No, we can support it in that sense, of course, but the parts are coming from the utility company,

and the utility company needs to reuse that part. It has a lot of material there. It has to be analyzed and fatigued, absolutely. But in some cases, that's one report that I read, and they wanted to change the turbines from three, five-hour turbines

to something way more simple, like one megawatt, or less than one megawatt at a hour. That is way, way, way, way less than a traditional turbine. And then that could be beneficial for the fatigue and then could extend the lifetime. I'm mostly from the, I think it was, well, actually,

so this was the first commission of the first farm in Denmark, for example, and working what to do with the fires. Yeah, of course, but it's one thing that can be considered, and it's one of the paths that you can take. Floating is one of the ones that we were suggesting,

and it's also very attractive. Floating, mostly from the side, you have a path, and mostly from the sense that you can see Spain, France, and England, and that they face Atlantic, and they have no winter like that. And that's one of the problems we were facing there.

Thank you. Hey, you mentioned this potential part there, something about regulation, what you want to know about regulation. Are there some problems there at all? Are there any so far that you can say something about it, or?

Yeah, the problems, most of the islands are much lower, and in Western Europe, people are extremely spoiled. They are against everything, but still they want power from their archives. But they don't want to have any collusion in any shape, way, or form,

whether it's visual or difficult, whether it's wind, dirty air, radiation, whatever. They are against everything. However, they want power. On those islands, people are suffering from the higher electricity prices. So there, people say, oh, you want the license?

Well, the other thing I experienced in 2008, when the oil prices were $50, you know, you could get things overnight, because every civil servant was very motivated to reuse his own electricity.

So if we go to Kenya, people, they're starved for power. They make 30 euros a month, if any, because unemployment is 40%. They have totally other worries than some birds who fly.

They don't care. Of course not. That's food. In this area of the world, we are so incredibly spoiled.

It's such a nonsense. I've been in this field for almost 40 years, and our government made a study, like, if we want to implement our full program,

6,000 megawatts, in the Dutch coast, which is known for birds passing about 100 billion years, what will be the impact? Well, at the end of the study, it's all, like, between 20 and 40,000 bird casualties.

Out of 100 million passing, the cars kill about 6 million birds. Overhead molecular lines, 1.5 million. Cats? No, but a couple of million. So the 20 to 40,000 is absolutely totally nothing.

So it's after the studies that, indeed, all the bird societies said, okay, we are in favor of a wind energy, with the exception of certain nature conservation area. However, each and every country you start, there's always an environmentalist saying,

And then, of course, you have to think carefully, give all the studies, and then, okay, here you go. Even the Royal Society of Protection of Birds in New England, which is, of course, the most conservative institution in the world, says we are in favor of wind energy?

Oh, that would be really funny. So definitely, the emerging markets are not only more common regarding, maybe, full-on economy. Also, Graham Avery is lighter, I would say. And what I take from there is the market for bird products is there in some cases.

So back to the company, this producer of bird products. Thank you very much for the panel.