On the importance of leaving
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FOSS Backstage 202211 / 39
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QuellcodeGarbentheorieSystemprogrammierungTwitter <Softwareplattform>Gebäude <Mathematik>ProgrammierumgebungCompilerSpeicherabzugProgrammfehlerNegative ZahlSoundverarbeitungVorzeichen <Mathematik>Bildgebendes VerfahrenDatenstrukturPerspektiveProgrammierspracheRückkopplungSelbst organisierendes SystemProgrammierungMAPGarbentheorieGruppenoperationMaßerweiterungMereologieMomentenproblemPhysikalisches SystemProjektive EbeneSpeicherabzugZahlenbereichE-MailSchätzungGüte der AnpassungAeroelastizitätAutomatische HandlungsplanungTemplateNotepad-ComputerGemeinsamer SpeicherPunktSchiefe WahrscheinlichkeitsverteilungNegative ZahlOffene MengeKreisflächeHilfesystemBeobachtungsstudieSoundverarbeitungOpen SourceSichtenkonzeptWhiteboardHinterlegungsverfahren <Kryptologie>Auflösung <Mathematik>Kontextbezogenes SystemMultiplikationsoperatorOrtsoperatorMusterspracheTwitter <Softwareplattform>SoftwareentwicklerProgrammierumgebungVollständiger VerbandVorlesung/KonferenzBesprechung/InterviewComputeranimation
07:28
RelationentheorieArbeit <Physik>StandardabweichungDatenmodellBildgebendes VerfahrenDatenstrukturDynamisches SystemProgrammiergerätKonfiguration <Informatik>BitProjektive EbeneSpeicherabzugZahlenbereichSchätzungCASE <Informatik>Prozess <Informatik>Gemeinsamer SpeicherStrömungsrichtungKreisflächeHilfesystemUmsetzung <Informatik>EinfügungsdämpfungVollständiger VerbandMailing-ListeOpen SourceEndliche ModelltheorieHinterlegungsverfahren <Kryptologie>Klassische PhysikMultiplikationsoperatorAnnulatorSchlussregelStandardabweichungMinkowski-MetrikOrtsoperatorGamecontrollerMAPBildschirmmaskeFormation <Mathematik>QuaderVorzeichen <Mathematik>Computeranimation
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Arbeit <Physik>RelationentheorieStandardabweichungDatenmodellKreisflächeFormale SpracheGerichtete MengeProgrammierumgebungRichtungDatenstrukturDatenverwaltungMathematikProgrammierspracheRückkopplungSprachsyntheseBus <Informatik>IterationProgrammierumgebungEntscheidungstheorieArbeit <Physik>BitGruppenoperationMereologieProjektive EbeneSpeicherabzugE-MailSystemaufrufFamilie <Mathematik>Automatische HandlungsplanungStochastische AbhängigkeitCASE <Informatik>PunktKontrollstrukturKreisflächeHilfesystemRichtungMailing-ListeAdressraumSchnelltasteOpen SourceWhiteboardMultiplikationsoperatorStandardabweichungMinkowski-MetrikOrtsoperatorMusterspracheGamecontrollerEinsTelekommunikationNeuronales NetzFormation <Mathematik>Computeranimation
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MultiplikationsoperatorAutomatische HandlungsplanungFormation <Mathematik>OrtsoperatorComputeranimationVorlesung/KonferenzBesprechung/Interview
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EntscheidungstheorieProzess <Informatik>Projektive EbeneGüte der AnpassungWort <Informatik>Open SourceDifferenteVorlesung/KonferenzBesprechung/Interview
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EntscheidungstheorieArithmetisches MittelProjektive EbeneSpeicherabzugProzess <Informatik>Formation <Mathematik>WhiteboardOrtsoperatorSystemplattformVorlesung/KonferenzBesprechung/Interview
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AutorisierungSystemplattformOrtsoperatorMaschinenschreibenTelekommunikationProdukt <Mathematik>EntscheidungstheorieProjektive EbeneSpeicherabzugVorlesung/KonferenzBesprechung/Interview
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QuellcodeOffene MengeCASE <Informatik>Vorlesung/KonferenzComputeranimation
Transkript: Englisch(automatisch erzeugt)
00:04
Okay, thank you I could also have titled this one Right after lunch as on the important of leaving the buffet So I Looked at the program of previous conferences and there's a lot of talk also on other conferences about how do you join open-source projects?
00:25
How do we make contributor experience great? And the thing that I'm sometimes lacking is How do you leave and it just happens to be that I left my open-source project and I thought this might be a good moment to just sum up my experiences
00:41
Also, I'm more than glad that when I entered the door, there was someone from the Joomla project Just talking about how they do succession planning. So Maybe use them as a template and not the project that I'm talking about. So first of all, who am I? I'm Froyan I am the managing director of first systems and its subsidiary critical section
01:00
The mission of those companies is bringing rust to the industry the programming language and some of the activities that might be of relevance here is that we are building the open source rust ADE rust analyzer and The embedded flashing toolkit knurling. Why are they interesting? We're funding them in a way that we don't need to cross fund through our customer business
01:22
but rather that our those are built with a commitment to the community and They're fiscally sound for us to build for the years to come because on something as crucial as this I believe that's important. You can find me on Twitter. You can find me on github and I've been part of a lot of non development projects particularly running a number of conferences and
01:43
Being involved in those being part of open tech school here in Berlin I've been on the board of Ruby Berlin and particularly I've been part of the rust project since 2015 as part of the community team and as part of the core team and I've seen the growth of that project from 200 to around 300 members nowadays and I'm one of the co-founders of a rust foundation all of which
02:05
I'm not a member anymore. I Have not left them all at once So obviously Especially the conferences were a rather temporary things. So I left all of them and I definitely feel better for it and What's of particular importance the projects are better for it and
02:25
that also means people who filled my roles now have a chance to shine and a lot of these projects are still healthy and even at places where I say Okay, I wouldn't have pulled this off but others did and One thing that's not as visible is that during my time in the core team of the rust project?
02:44
I actually helped other people leaving that's I think the more interesting thing to talk about and especially I found three things there that I think are Harmful, but I understand why they are there Particularly whenever chatting with someone about their intention to leave or their hidden desire to leave which was also
03:04
sometimes a problem is three things an overestimation of negative effects fear of actually leaving their post and moving on an underestimation of positive effects kind of an insecurity for the future and a lack of structural support all of which we
03:24
Can address if we know about them? So I'd actually like to start with the point that I think leaving Must be a positive experience and this talk is successful if either it makes some people leave their project and feel good about it or Have some people stay on their project and be more confident about it or
03:45
Helping others to do either of the above Because probably we've all seen the shredded email that comes in somewhere around Tuesday and Suddenly one of the leading project manner member says, oh by the way with a heavy heart. I'm gone tomorrow
04:03
and That has a history that probably started month earlier and it should never happen It happens. I'm actually the first person I would like to say that on stage that has left the core team on a prompt Because I didn't want this to happen. And the first thing I think is not make it happen to me
04:22
so but why why is it that people push out this discussion for so long because I think that is that is the problems like people run across the moment where they should leave to the point where it's just not bearable anymore and I To my reading the reasons to not leave or diffuse fears and some personal beliefs and
04:42
It's completely Uninteresting in this discussion whether these things are actually true or whether the person just perceives it That doesn't matter. It's their personal view and The first thing is shame Just simply shame the feeling of failing others when leaving the post you still have things on your plate things unfinished
05:03
There's always more to do and that will never go away but often people are not aware of because once they've got one thing down, then another thing will be open and unfinished and Also, particularly when we're talking about diversity people from underrepresented groups also often have a feeling that if they leave they leave their group
05:24
Underrepresented and that is also something in that context. We need to help them out with Also obligations towards friends Um, I read this interesting study in which pointed out that open source relationships are often longer
05:40
for example than your colleagues at work, so you You work in a project you switch employers But kind of like your open source peer stay the same and there's often an intermingling between the work you do together and also Friendships, so some people perceive their open source project as a friendship circle and that is to an extent also true
06:01
So leaving may feel like leaving a circle of friends and under that perspective it's helpful if that circle of friends actually expresses a if we leave the project we're still friends and Pretty often I've seen things like a skewed solve image. Um, this is perfectly normal
06:23
I joined a group for assistance Entrepreneurs assisting each other a couple of years ago and the patterns there are always the same people in high leadership positions Someone it's always said it's lonely at the top often have a problem with feedback loops and that leads to a skewed solve image
06:41
So for example the overestimation of what you share in a large organization actually is in an organization Like the rust project currently I would estimate my share at 1 300 Everything else is inappropriate. I would say it's a good guess Probably for some people it's more for some people. It's less also given personal resources
07:03
but The largest open source projects nowadays are tankers not speed boats and The Other thing that comes along with it. Is that still there's often the feeling?
07:20
I have this one aspect that no one else cares about and if I'm gone No one cares about that a if that's true if the crowed friend there well, somebody that definitely needs to fix that it doesn't have to be you and Sometimes just stays broken until someone picks it up So what will actually break if you leave and I can share about the rust project I have left and nothing broke
07:44
some of the things that I would like fix are still broken, but doesn't matter and That and also the thing that Thinking that one has a certain mastery that will make a dent that actually goes both ways
08:01
I had a very odd dynamic in the rust community team with the number of projects that I have under my belt I had the problem in leadership that a lot of people would not do anything without Florian giving it my go In sense of hey friend has tons more experience. It's only good if Lauren says yes the appropriate thing to do in that situation is
08:23
Leave and actually cut off the option of asking you for everything the community team in rust still does fine Just without me. I think it actually does better since I'm not there anymore And the last thing an overestimated loss of influence and I can definitely share that was a little bit of a problem for me and I come back to that the sense of I
08:43
Do run a business in that space. I need some control over that project We're also Amazon and Microsoft and a lot of other companies that are quite openly in for control are in that but the Experiences my Loss of influence is pretty marginal people still know me people stone as they'll know me for what I do
09:05
I actually think the current structural positioning I'm in is better And the last one structural issues Projects often have structures to gain contributors. They rarely have one to leave. I'm happy to hear that some of them have them and that comes the other problem a
09:23
Lot of leadership in open source and I think this is actually something someone was asking for where do we spend a billion I Think actually structured leadership education would be a good thing to start with Just for the reason that there's a ton of effort and experience needed to just have that conversation with a contributor
09:43
Hey, your contribution is dropping. It's getting problematic it's like can we talk about it in a positive way actually in your interest, that's Classic leadership skills that people are often are trained for when they join the project as a programmer and that's absolutely not a
10:01
personal flaw or a mistake of them But something we also need to assist our leaders with and the final thing external ghosts Fear that the community assumes hidden motives. You probably read the news the last year for the rust project wasn't the nicest one there's been some internal infighting and
10:20
When I was leaving a huge question was how do I make sure that my intention to leave Which I'm getting into it was is that has nothing to do with that And the other thing fear of being judged And so any kind of insecurity around drawing the public image. What does it do to my stage?
10:45
Personality and for a project there's also a lot to gain in this why to make leaving great Contributors that leave in a good mood Will talk favorably
11:00
About you and be friends in the industry and so on they will still be around maybe help from time to time Maybe they even go to a position in a company where they actually have budgets Suddenly you have a friend with a budget And any successful larger project that I've seen
11:21
Kubernetes Ross node, whatever Forms this kind of friend circle around that are not really involved anymore but if you are in need you can still approach them and Obviously people who left in good faith may come back when the leaving was a happy experience It's actually more likely that they might come back and may have some time to support their successors
11:43
So How do we make this happen and I think it's important as a first step that we don't go too far and actually start normalizing the discussion people leave and
12:01
That starts with all of us. So for example, I've seen it in the Ruby community I've loved the Ruby community together with my friend Steve Klab neck Who's also a very notable person and I was literally asked the question What does Ruby do if Steve and Florian are gone? It's going to do just fine the next day So not allowing that discussion like not making the two
12:25
Large of heroes out of people is very important and also continuing within the project Making it clear that anyone within the Ross project can leave and we will do fine So putting it in the handbooks Addressing it at meetings making open the conversation. Hey does someone intend to leave within the next half year?
12:45
How what's your personal situation? Do you think you can go on and all of these kind of things and normalizing discussions also make sure that? It's easier to open yourself up to them because someone else did it before you or things like that and Actively set standards on how to leave that was the big mistake that I think we made is
13:04
I think if you accept the core team position in a project that is as large as a 300-person project it comes with a certain amount of commitment and I think it is the project's job to clearly communicate to people who take such positions this is how we expect you to leave it can't be from and
13:23
It can't be from yesterday to tomorrow. One thing I put here is don't model that around emergencies There's always emergencies wherein people need to leave and all of these kind of things but the structure like the standard case should have rules around it and Give support. So assign a peer to have all of those discussions before was like what's
13:46
How do you attend that to go? What's the story? We want to we want to tell what's the most important reason you're leaving? And actively as any kind of leader team lead Approach your peers and support them and it has been very interesting the rust project
14:02
we had a number of team leads leaving and a number of team leads join in the in the teams how the team leads who managed the 300-person project are far more involved in having these discussions than the team leads who have grown the 20-person project or the 50-person project so it's also important that you rotate during the growth of the project because a
14:21
Person who makes a 20-person project fly is a quite different skill set from someone who makes a 300 Person project with a foundation attached and everything fly and the other thing that's been always been a thing that I Represented in the rough project copy as much as you can don't invent your own this structure this classic things around this list
14:43
Approaches in the industry. There's coaches around that can help you with that One thing that we found a lot of what I talked about is a lot of emotional labor And there's a hesitance and volunteers to actually engage in that For on first iteration they say like I'm already doing that with my family. Why should I do it for my open source project?
15:03
I expect for my open source project That it doesn't expect emotional labor from me. The problem is we are social circles That demand is not possible. So Making sure that we have people around they are supported and recognized for the contribution that do this kind of work is incredibly important
15:23
on the personal side, so It's always been helpful to me to always have a plan in the sense of if I wanted to leave I've got this plan here and I'll do it this way communicate that plan to your team early the ability to execute it as At any time is an enabler for feeling good during the volunteer engagement
15:44
so that's the point of be more confident in staying and You Have the ability and I should have done that way earlier to set standards there Don't leave in a rush give time don't leave at a breaking point leave before the breaking point
16:02
So this kind of look ahead of okay I'm going to need six months to do this so I should find the point six months out when I'm running out of steam or when I actually have something else to do and One thing that's crucial is having a circle of trust and being very confident about this is about me This is where I'm going and no one else has a say in that and the other part is okay
16:25
Where do I go having a plan for the future? What's my personal reason for leaving? What am I going to do after that a little bit of retrospective? What have I actually achieved? Instead of talking about what's still broken So working on one's own insecurity is a thing that with help of others
16:41
can only be it done by myself and What has helped me is finding the simplest most important reason to leave because if I've made the whole list I would probably find a hundred but there's probably just one or two that actually Make the decision happen So, why did I leave?
17:00
First of all resolving structural tensions I was at a point by the end of the year last year board member of the rust Foundation representing the rust core team I was a rust core team member and a managing director of the largest independent rust firm at the same time I could have negotiated deals with myself And a lot of discussions with all of those parties are much better since everyone knows in a call. Okay
17:21
I'm just running a company here And I still have all the contacts everyone still knows the directions that I'm getting at but I it's clear which party I'm speaking for And I see my contribution as being more effective elsewhere. So my time spent is Just way more effective on where I'm currently and then before
17:41
and Something else is just more fulfilling and I come to that and also making space for others Even if I don't know them yet, there's now new core team members all the people I've also left I know some of them some of them a little and Yeah, and just allowing new faces and managing patterns has been usually helpful and finally personal well-being. That's
18:02
actually I Think I couldn't have gone much longer in that kind of situation We always need to explain where this sentence out of which of my hats the sentence actually comes from And executing on that plan was an exercise in drawing that story together with my project and
18:21
Make a joint announcement that was clear on both sides what the reasons were Being very open to criticism of your communication. Hey Florian This is not what I would tell and this is actually not true and this is where you're over Presenting your own contributions. That is all feedback that needs to be taken particularly never lie
18:40
So if you're leaving for a bad reason, I would recommend stated Very clearly so This is a PR exercise in a PR sense, but in the interest of both parties to make sure that also Both parties are not harmed further even for example if it's for a bad reason in my case. It wasn't
19:04
That also in those kind of senses. This is under control And examples for things that I've seen just over the past years in the project are these small kinds of moves even people just leaving the core team for and Had a hesitance to actually leave the core team for all the reasons that I stated moving back to an individual
19:25
Contributor in the project Leaving the project all together. I talked about this and Yeah, stepping down from any kind of leadership position becoming a contributor again So, what did I leave I left the huge privilege that comes once in a lifetime to have a look at a programming language and following it from
19:48
Early research to what to widespread in the industry just over six years I don't think that we are going to see that in the next coming years At least not in a way where I can be part of that
20:03
My positions allowed me to influence the whole structure around the bus project fundamentally and how its community works In how its policies towards the community works on how that has been one of the things that I've been working on Making sure that it's a reliable partner to industries
20:20
And I think that's a huge cornerstone in the success all of which just to be clear I've not been alone in and had other people in the project that helped on that and it's now a tanker So if I leave that will go on like all of those relationships bind you and people understand why they are there all our sponsors and all of this and What I left to works is actually I'm now managing a joint venture today together with a larger company
20:44
Ada core to bring rust into safety critical environments space flight avionics cars Motor controls, so I'm still growing rust somewhere But this takes a hundred percent of my time and that's the very blunt reason of if I had a fourth group to the three
21:03
Groups, I already mentioned Well, we'd not be seeing any of my influence in the next coming month and So how do I leave just boring? I left by the end of the year last year The attention was announced in June 2021 To the core team so we actively they could actively start talking about successes and changes in the team
21:25
We announced the I announced the exact date to the core team in the foundation by September Send a farewell email somewhere in January and then there was public communication in February It's also very useful That we got our project used to having an all at email address that you can send mails to where people are actually
21:44
confidential about and do not leak Because that means I can openly communicate towards my project to all of the project Without any kind of fear about public perception and there we are That's the end of my talk. And if we still have time
22:02
questions experiences more than happy to Thank you very much Loyan Yeah, I think we still we yeah, we started a bit late, but I think it's time still for for some questions What are your thoughts on leaving a position where you have not been able to?
22:23
Determine the succession plan where no one steps up Center yourself If it breaks it breaks but it's Not your job to keep the world turning. Yeah, it's a
22:40
It's probably the most brutal of these kinds of decisions. But yeah in the end what's best for you How do you think this these principles relate to when you are leaving both a job that is tied to an
23:03
Open-source project in other words, you're automatically contributor because it's a job and now you're both resigning but automatically stepping away from the community Do you think that's a different process or? That's a good question So, I mean it's kind of hidden in there
23:22
The reason why I left the foundation's board was actually because I was representing core so Resigning from my project position meant my immediate resignation from the foundation, which I have co-built Which was probably the tougher decision there it's like it's a
23:42
I've been involved in the whole build-up the whole Financing budgeting early sponsoring getting all the sponsors together and so on so forth But then yielding all say on this was a pretty big one. I'm
24:01
I'm one thing that the rust project has and maybe that's a Not quite answering your question But one thing that the rest project has is that deliberately for those reasons the rust project is not managed by the rust foundation So the rust foundation cannot assign people to posts on the teams
24:21
And that disconnect is deliberate and that's also something that happens within companies. So that actually the situation cannot happen You leave your job at the foundation, but you could still retain your post in the project Because they're deliberately not interconnected. So that's why I would see the problem
24:44
But for the actual situation, I've never been in it. So I have no advice or experiences I'm very sorry for that And we have a question from the online platform In stepping down from a leadership position to contributor
25:00
How do you avoid taking too much authority with you or how do you avoid undermining your successes? Okay I've done the mistake. I'm very open about that The reason why Euro camp doesn't happen anymore in Berlin is because I stepped down in 2014 And then the old leadership team had opinions whether it should be continued after 2015
25:25
That was inappropriate and a mistake. So for me What helped me was making that mistake and seeing the outcomes of it It's a it's an exercise in restraint I think one of the things that helps is being in active touch with the new leader and
25:47
Being very vocal about I have no opinion on this or I would like to have this to be your decision So this is very active move of that's your decision This is one thing that I think someone sees everywhere
26:00
Like that is actually a problem that we that we struggled in the rest product with The core team in the rest product has deliberately Tried to not even build that authority. It's externally perceived as such but for example I've been in the situation where I would have liked to to tell the release team to release something, but I actually didn't have the authority and
26:24
How did that work within the project always this kind of active communication like very vocally saying that's not my decision anymore and that also helps me on my side of Remembering that I yield at this authority by actively saying I don't have the authority anymore And you can't even get my opinion on this because I know it would influence your decision
26:47
Okay, any more questions? In that case Thank You Florian. Thank you very much. Thank you