I think there was a suggestion that we just kind of introduced the Raco Steering Council, say what we do first, what's it about basically. Does anyone know what we do?

Okay, I hope my voice is heard now. Fine. Okay, the initial idea was for everybody attending this panel is just try to imagine a stage with seven chairs on it and seven of us

sitting in those chairs. Unfortunately, one is not present, so one chair is empty and the audience is staring at us and we are staring at the audience and we feel like

students are terrified because questions are coming and so we are about to answer those questions however difficult they could be to us. So let me start with the personal introduction

and I want everybody else on the stage to do the same. Say just your name and a few words about yourself. So since I'm the organizer, I started. My name is Vadim Belman. I

have 20 years of open ground and since 2018, I'm practically 100% Raco guy and for quite some for some years I'm a member of the core team and also as you can

guess it, I'm a member of the Steering Council. That's pretty much I can tell about myself. So in the order I have on my screen, Daniel, it's your turn, please.

Okay, I'm Daniel, also known by my username code sections. I just posted a link in the chat to the Raco Steering Council website, such as it is, which is fairly minimal but lists basically what we are and has a link to the various documents that we have and a bit about me

personally. I am probably the Steering Council member who's been programming Raco for the shortest period of time but I have gotten very involved in Raco. I'm a free software developer

and program in Raco and Rust and JavaScript but Raco is as large a fraction of the time as I can get away with and before I was a software developer, I was a practicing attorney and still am an attorney but no longer practice. I now develop software full-time

and I guess we can just go down that list of alphabetical order. So I guess, Nick, that would put you up next. Hey, I'm Nick Logan, also known as U-G-E-X-E. He spelled out the whole thing. I've somehow been programming in Raco for I guess almost 10 years

now. It doesn't seem like it but it's been a really long time and so I guess that's probably partly why I am on this council. So yeah, it kind of helps get a language in any way I can, help collaborate with these people here to help further the language and have a nice

environment for everybody to program in. I don't have a list of whoever to call on next so I guess I will just pick Lizmat. Hi, yeah, I'm Elizabeth Matuysen. I've been doing Perl since

1994. I've been doing Perl 6 since 2012. Before all of that, I did some other programming in some other strange and exotic programming languages and yeah, I've done a lot of core development, core settings development and I'm part of the Raco steering council

and yeah, I basically, I've basically, since my retirement in 2012, I've been doing a lot of Raco. That's basically it and I guess you could argue that I'm one of the few people

that are doing Raco full time but not getting paid for it and that's about what I I guess had to say and I guess the next one will be Stefan. Okay, I'm Stefan Seifert or

online more or less. I have some 30-ish years of software development experience and some 14 years of management experience now. I spent most of the time doing Perl but have followed the whole

Perl 6 thing back then for quite a long time and my first contact was actually when I wrote inline Perl 5 which kind of bridges the two worlds together and then I got sucked into core development more and more and more like even into more VM development which I very much enjoy

when the idea for the Raco steering council came up as this kind of government body or just body that deals with all the questions where we have no other way of finding an answer that

I quickly volunteered because I very much like the idea and I think it's worth doing so let's get this off the floor and get it started and now we're here and we're doing what we're doing. Within the steering council my main focus for me personally is community

because the language really needs a community that's welcoming, that's working, that's productive, that's just a fun place to be and that's where I put my focus.

So JJ, the stage is yours. Thank you Stefan. So I'm here because Liz invited slash pushed me into presenting my candidacy to Raco steering council so until then I have been in charge each of the documentation. I have been also doing Perl for quite a long time

and I'm incredibly happy of being here and you know as Stefan said you know for me from the greatest thing in Raco is really the community and I really want to keep it a healthy and

inviting and welcoming place for everyone. I'm also trying to kind of introduce Raco as a language for learning to program which I think will be a great thing and that's it. Thank you very much. I guess this is the point where we really need those questions to answer.

Yeah, I guess so. One thing while people are thinking of questions I wanted to just thank

Andrew for all of his work putting together this dev room and you know he has pretty much handled everything and made it very easy to just sort of show up and give our talks and I know that there's a lot of work that went into that and JJ you did a fair amount of last year with the joint dev room and I know Andrew has done it this year and so I just want

to thank everyone for their past and current efforts to do that. It's frequently under appreciated organizational work but really key to having a community space where we can come together and see each other so thanks for that and it looks like we have a question now.

Yep, so the question is from our perspective how has the relationship between the Raco Steering Council and problem solving developed? For those who don't know the problem solving is a GitHub repository that's the place for things that aren't really bugs either in the language or

implementation but are often language design issues open questions but not even limited to that it could be about for example the question of do we want a code of conduct or how should a

code of conduct look like be that's what the problem solving repository is for the place where we discuss it and the Raco Steering Council's role is to work as a kind of last resort

if we cannot find an answer through the normal process and Patrick commented that it feels like we've become not so much the last resort but more like yeah it's normal that the steering

council will answer those questions or make those decisions. How do you, my fellow panelists, do you see it the same? Have you become the usual place to find answers? Well I think one

thing I would say and some of this is probably reflected in our minutes which we have been getting better about posting regularly although we're still may have some work to do there but one thing that frequently happens in our meetings is we will discuss something and say oh

the action we should take on this is not actually deciding anything but it's writing up our views for the problem solving issue and getting feedback that way or you know so many of the times the action that the steering council takes is not independent of the the problem

solving repo it is actually we're taking action through the problem solving repo and by posting thoughts so I don't really view in sort of an ideal world the steering council as a alternative to the problem solving repo as more but more of a way that the problem solving repo

a way to use that repo more effectively and we can that can sometimes be by having these you know synchronous face-to-face meetings where we can hash out differences of opinion that have been expressed asynchronously in the problem solving repo or by getting on the same

page about what solution might work for something in the problem solving repo but at least that's my take on it that it's more a way to let the problem solving process work more effectively and not as an alternative to the problem solving process but I'd be interested

in hearing other other views as well. Part of the question was do we kind of feel responsible for problem solving I can answer for myself in in a way yes but that's because we are the last

resort we are supposed to find answers if the normal process doesn't yield any answers by itself but that's just the way it's set up and that by itself is okay.

Then I guess we can move on to the next question about academia what are our thoughts about academia going forward are there any plans or projects on the development what do we see as

the weakest points at the moment in this matter and where and how would we prefer assistance from academia that's very good question yes. So I guess that's my tariff I'm the academic. I was hoping you would take it yes. Yeah I mean so I have I have

met several talks talking about how the approach that Raku has that you know everything and the kitchen sink is very very appropriate for for learning all kinds of postmodern languages

that said I mean there are no no plans a thing you know having some academic council or whatever getting us to draw a syllabus or or anything like that so the the only thing what you you probably know that we are a small language a relatively relatively small community and the

only thing that we can do is to to encourage people to to use it to make it more useful and and to eventually get it noticed by some someone in academia as far as I know that that's what happens with any language out there so I mean nobody nobody told academia to just

start using java or facade or c++ before that or or pascal or or whatever so you know answering directly your question are there any plans or projects under development no we just try to to I use it academically all the time I use it in research I use it in

teaching and I try to to to tell everyone that I that I do but there are no plans Gueyeke's point at the moment in this matter I'm going to house you would the Raku still doesn't prefer assistance from academia that's uh if I made that's an an interesting phrasing of

the question because usually one would think how do get we get into academia how can academia help us spread language but the question was phrased like what do we want from academia which is a totally different thing and opens some interesting ideas because I think

Raku as a language is incredibly ambitious that's I think best displayed by the years and years and hard work and incredible ingenuity by a certain Jonathan that went into making it not

just work but also work not glacially slow at first and now faster and in some places really actually impressively fast and and still ongoing and the the way we we do this is by

in some places even surpassing what's current research and academia we do take a lot from academia I know that Jonathan's in specifically does read a lot of papers papers and and research results are posted on the on the our channels etc but in some places

we're actually ahead and the question makes me think maybe we can approach academia in this way give them the interesting questions to work out yeah I mean we can approach academia that yeah

academia is not known for answering back fast so looking at the last question so how would you how would the Raku still prefer assistance from academia but we want this is basically very noticed by academia and getting someone to use it in some some side levels or some

some entry-level course I think that would be really awesome that that people would start using using Raku's you know programming 101 and that that was really awesome and I really I really think that Raku is a very very good language for for that kind of thing because I mean

it's not restricted to one paradigm or it's not restricted to to a single way of looking at things there are many ways of doing that so you want to you want to start with Raku you want to to explain object oriented programming you can you want to explain functional programming you can

you got you want to do is playing concurrent programming you can do that too so you can start with programming 101 you know in the very basic thing loops and variables and and decisions and the kind of thing that then you want to go ahead and explain more advanced programming concepts and you can do that and you can even run all the way to grammars which is not in any other language so I mean getting noticed would be certainly very high in my wish list

but I have been in academia longer than I have been in the parallel Raku community and you know we should do stuff it's kind of you know it's it's going to lead to melancholy probably

and in that respect I think it's important that Andrew is working on a course for Raku and when that's finished it's going to be nice it could be a nice entry into academia as well one thing I would say about academia is that there are in some ways almost three different

like academia is a very broad description and there are three different types of academia that could relate to Raku in potentially different ways there's the academia where they are picking a language you know Java or Python or potentially Raku to teach basic computer science

with and like that's one conversation and it would be great to have Raku used as a teaching language in that way and then there's the sort of academia as language users in more sort of the computational biology academia academics who are not trying to teach programming to anyone but

are just trying to use language as a tool to get their actual job done and I think that Raku also has something to offer that space I mean several of the the talks today and at recent conferences have been about using Raku for data analysis and you know Raku versus

Pandas or R and so like there's there's a way for Raku to be involved in academia from that perspective and then there's academic computer science and how programming language researchers relate to the Raku community and you know if you look at languages like Racket or

Haskell or you know other languages that have a really strong sort of research programming language research component I think that's an area where as we've talked about Jonathan and others have drawn a lot for Raku but I would personally love to see us get some more interest

from researchers not not academics who are looking at teaching programming to first year students necessarily but people who are doing their own graduate research and sort of positioning I feel like at some of those programming language conferences Raku doesn't

come up quite as as much as it ought to because it didn't come out of that world the way many you know as I mentioned Racket or Haskell they came out of the programming language research world and then came into industry and free software we sort of had the opposite journey

but have many features that I think people in that more programming language research world would would be interested in and are interested in so that's that's yet a third conversation so that didn't really answer the question but it does sort of split out the question as there are these three different sort of types of academia and I'd be interested in seeing Raku

develop its relationship with all three of those those facets. Okay there was a question about Raku Foundation but I would like to put that aside for now to give the the one who's asking is a little more time to elaborate because I'm not sure what it's getting at.

The next question then is what is the general strategic or priority direction Raku development wise do we pursue features or performance or is it more like finishing up general language completeness like data structures paradigms etc. I'd like to say something about

that I think we want to do all of that but we don't have enough people and so basically what happens in development is what people actually are interested in in doing trying to do

people that are interested in doing it and actually work with the grant like Jonathan is doing and anything that goes really at this point in time anyway so yes we want to have a fuller set of features we do want to have more performance and we want more general language

completeness like for instance macros and stuff like that so what what do we actually prioritize in that direction well we prioritize in the sense that if something gets done it gets

done and yeah we try to sort of focus ourselves on things that need to be done uh but there's too much really for the people that are doing this so if you really like things to happen you better start making them happen and go ahead

the the question was about strategic direction and I would I would claim there is none because a strategy in the business and management sense would be something that's uh that has to be

followed it's mandatory and there is no such thing we are a very free and open source project in the sense that it's really the people who do the work who decide what what's getting done for me personally this past I think two years or so my my focus has been totally on

stability because I wanted to use uh raco in production at work at our company which we are doing but if it's in production it that it better works so no random crashes or anything so that's what I've spent lots of my spare time on getting things really

production ready and stable and and everything that entails then help well I was just going to add that I echo everything that the two of you said but I also want to draw a distinction between what the six of us prioritize which it is kind of what what we can do and you know thinking

through that versus what the like raccoon steering council prioritizes and in some ways this is is echoing what you just said about there not being you know strategy being something that's more mandatory but the raccoon steering council as a an organization doesn't set priorities

like we we exist in a lot of ways to resolve conflicts um when something comes up through the problem solving process and can't be solved in a different way in a decision you know we have to reach a decision we exist to facilitate community um and and help the raccoon community

grow and and hopefully grow in ways that that result in better language development but we are not telling anybody to work on something or not to work on something and we all care a lot about raccoon development and and spend a lot of our free time

working on on raccoon development but that's that's because in addition to being members of the steering council we're all core developers and you know want to contribute in ways that we can that's not really something that we are are deciding on as a steering council you know i i don't think we ever have nor do i think it would really be within our purview to like

take a vote on what the highest priority thing is um i i'd be open to someone telling me no i've misunderstood our role and we should vote on that but it's it's certainly not something we voted on in the past and and i i view it as not really something that is part of the the

mission statement for the steering council also in in that sense uh for instance the whole thing about uh the raccoon ecosystem archive it's just something that that i personally felt that needed

doing because we need to be ready for the future in that respect and so i just started doing that and the same for the the lock server and everything and people seem to be happy with it so that's good but yeah uh that's about the strategicness that we that we can think of really

well you um talking about uh what people have done um as i said i my focus was on stability uh i know jonathan's focus has been on performance namely the new dispatch mechanism

and everything that with the main goal of making uh performance much more even and not have these performance cliffs where some features are just terribly slow so you can say that the perform performance has been a focus on that now that that is done i have seen that he has shifted

back to working on raccoon ast which would be a feature giving new person possibilities of what to do with raccoon once that is done personally i wouldn't know what big feature tickets are missing racqui is already a an incredibly powerful language and macros what

which is what the ast work is for uh have been sort of the the big missing thing that was promised ages ago but hasn't materialized yet once that is done we are kind of feature

complete as much as a language can be so i i would if i make a guess i would say performance is is the topic after that again and just thinking back to uh jonathan's roadmap talk from

the last raccoon conference i think that uh one of the features that is further down the roadmap would be slangs which would be nice to get to one day and i think that's something that everybody you know agrees is is part of the long-term roadmap um but in terms of like what

what might be nice for future completeness um but that's that's i think that was not likely in the next language version that's a more long-term thing but it's down the road past macros okay moving on there's uh sort of a question about raccoon can be put on the map

with a few powerful package constellations like raccoon crow or scarless bark i guess this is like ruby on rails that would be an example can we comment on that well maybe we'll pick it

again so i mean this is something i have i have given a lot of thought from the years of course having a killer app is is really great

the problem is that the app is not going to kill until people make it kill stuff so apps don't kill uh people too it's probably an unfortunate uh kind of uh simile but my point is that the uh i mean ruby on rails for instance ruby was put on the map because of ruby on rails it was because of the people realized that it was the first nbc framework and then people

said okay this is great the spark spark was great for for streaming uh data science and there was there wasn't anything like that and so it puts column the map and it was kind of was it was an academic development so it wasn't created by a company or anything like that so i mean i

think that that again this kind of debate is going to to lead to to uh to our role i mean it's going to lead on a role that i don't think it's actually taking us anywhere because you can you can create something that that's a very very good application for for anything

and i think that crow is an excellent application for not only for for web development it's actually for for distributed computing and there's probably not anything like that you can think for instance about the grammars grammars are incredibly powerful there's nothing like that in any other language and you could really say that that that's something that would put

raku on the map and it hasn't we could you know talk a lot about what what really means putting something on the map i will say that the for the time being raku is arguably on the map it's it's it's out there it's it's in production it's it's a it's a very very useful

language for many kind of things we wouldn't go anywhere else we wouldn't need more resource which is something that just just imagine that all of a sudden becomes it becomes as popular as cotling or or javascript i mean we would simply have no way of answering all possible pull requests and issues

that will be raised on our different repositories i mean it would be really very impossible so of course it's always better to have more resources overall on the on the on the supply side not on the demand side but putting demand before before supply

it's a difficult proposition and and as long as we would like our language to be to be more popular i mean that's always the same i think that uh for instance i see stuff like in stack overflow you there are very little very few languages if any that have the right of

answered questions uh in a stack overflow i mean you look you look up even at even at per per has 20 25 and answer questions how many that we're having in raku it's probably something like 10% it's absolutely amazing so i mean the community and and the size we have and the

place on the map where we are i think it's it's a very comfortable place getting out of that place where we are now it's going to create the strains in many different directions that i don't know if we are we will be able to handle but of course i mean this is this is

a personal opinion and and and of course this doesn't mean that i would like to to see the the the language a bit more more popular than it is now expanding just a little bit on that

much of these or many of these things like rails just putting ruby on the map or or even before that java getting into academia i think many of these things happen more or less by

accident mostly in in academia i think it often works like or is based on the initiative of single people someone who thinks that oh this this is what make a good material for my teaching so starts teaching and then it catches on while most of things just don't and some are

just lucky and things catch on and suddenly python is everywhere and there's no science without python anymore because these things have their lucky moment and then things grow and with

same way it can happen that things fall out of favor again it's i can't think of of many examples where things look like they were really strategically

planned that way and those plans actually worked out it's rare enough in in business that it happens this way even less so with with things that don't have a huge cooperation behind them

i've lost a bit track of what the next question is there was a question about meetups so in-person meetups are slow to ramp up post-covid are there any thoughts or plans about doing more virtually not so much thinking about large large conferences but smaller things like london pearl workshop pearl monger groups etc there has been talk about

having for example a raco core developers workshop kind of thing i don't think we have talked about doing it virtually would that be a thing

we could do that but i think if you're talking about pearl monger type groups that's not something that should be organized by the raco steering council that should be organized by the people that want to visit these groups and having been involved in at least

three pearl monger groups and visiting them almost every month it just basically means that there need to be people to do it if there are no people that want to do it then there is no that i mean you you as a as a person or as an organization you you you're pulling a dead horse

and this needs to come from the people themselves and we can help them with that in ways and shapes afford by making sure that we visit them every now and then something like that but i feel very very strongly about not wanting to organize that just from the raco steering council outwards

individual members might want to do that and i actually might want to do that but i don't think it's actually a raco steering council thing yeah i would agree with that and and i started by thanking andrew for his work and i do i stand by the idea that that sort of

organizational work is frequently you know a bit thankless but really really important and i would love to see more more virtual meetups i know there is already the the racu study group that meets um most most weekends and i'm glad that that exists i'd love to see more things

like that um one thing i'd personally love if somebody would would organize a racu book club there are so many great books in the racu ecosystem i'd love to work through you know a chapter a month or something um so you know and and any of those things are not things that

that anyone needs to be an expert in it just takes the organizational skill and um sweat of of organizing that um so those are all things i would love to see more of and and would be happy to participate in um i'm not going to make promises of organizing them myself

because i i know it is part of work and it's it's not something i feel like i have the capacity to volunteer for right now but i would would be happy to participate in and would love to see more of that sort of thing i think andrew is a great example of how it often really comes down to a single person who wants to see things happenings getting things done and just

puts in the work to doing them the flip side of course is that a single person can move tremendous things so more power to the individual i guess and and no one should feel like they are

too junior or too uninvolved to step up and do that like this is not something you know any of these organizational efforts i mean any effort whether it's contributing hacking on the morbium uh c code no one should feel intimidated and like they're out of their

there's room for anyone to contribute to any part of the the raccoon development process but especially when it comes to you know organizing a book club or a uh i don't know whether raccoon mongers is a phrase or not but a a meetup of some sort you know everyone

should feel like that is something that they could could definitely take a stab at i i want to take this as a great segue into the next question or which was more of a comment but still talk worth talking about a bit it's about how a newbie can get into working on the

internals and it's it looks very intimidating raccoon is big ambitious complicated ahead of academia and all the things i said earlier are now firing back in a way because oh my god how

can i as in someone who's not as involved ever hope to do anything but i can talk about my own experience in this as i said i i started with inline pro 5 totally outside core i learned

writing that and the whole getting sucked into core development and more vm development thing it was just an incredibly nice experience an incredibly an incredible journey i learned so much and there were such nice people that helped me along the way and and answered

questions and explained and helped me out so i've become a much better developer through this through going this way and i've found such incredibly nice people that yes i just i'm just

spending hours and hours chasing segfaults and something just to give something back to those people so if if you feel intimidated no reason to we are very very welcoming as i said there's a reason why community is very important to me because i had this great experience and

about want everyone else to have the same experience too speaking about getting involved into rapid development i must also note that

rather unexpectedly a recorder itself has very low threshold of entering into language development i would never consider myself participating in pro development like i don't know it looked too complicated maybe especially considering that my high school

my university background was very limited and all i know in the area of language development i basically studied myself over the years but then speaking about personal experience

things just choose a task for yourself in my case it all started with the fact that i used while using pro i used to move a lot not most but move whatever and i liked the

concept of lazy attributes and it was pretty much disappointing that raco doesn't have them and i decided okay it's extensible by not to implement it on my own and i started and then i realized that oh here is the thing i need to know better so i

just pulled down the sources of raco and i was looking into the sources just to find out how things work and then i realized that well this thing doesn't work exactly as i wanted or i need it or there is a bug and you know then step by step it's not necessary don't expect yourself

to get involved completely don't expect yourself to produce a useful useful patch right away but just start reading the code and it's really simple there are a couple of confusing concepts of course but again come to erc chat with people we always there to answer your questions

if nobody is around for say 15-20 minutes in about an hour usually somebody comes to answer so just give it a try give it a try and you won't believe yourself how easy is it

uh to get used to all the sources for the structuring of the language to all this kind of thing try and check out vadim's uh talk on on raco core development from the last uh record conf that that was a nice overview of a lot of the internals

so that's a good resource if you're interested in in making that jump i'm just an organizational note uh i've been trying to follow the questions uh but there's also some discussions going on and

there's our panel discussion so i may have missed one or two don't be afraid to just repeat them oh there was a question on good again probably rather a comment on go-to

and my personal view on this particular issue is that i'm rather happy not to have go-to in raco it's really for better we have a lot of ways to solve issues to solve problems you have about your task much more than anybody can expect

it's in roast though pardon there's a roast test for it so go-to is actually a specified feature of the language it is but let's remove it

i mean it's not implemented it's not okay seriously there is a subcode go-to and it will actually throw an nyi exception and for year i i don't know uh the last time

i used go-to it was uh a trick in pro like maybe 10 years ago so i i hope you don't have it that's it whatever is the specification tells

ah there's a repost of a question that i i missed sorry about that uh can we share with them a clear mission and vision for raco projects if not what are our thoughts on deciding on something like this well i i would say clear

vision is that we want to be an inclusive community we want to have a programming language that is going to last for at least another eight years that's about it i think if that

doesn't answer the question feel free to elaborate and that reminds me that i skipped a question very early on um about was that the one about the uh the foundation the foundation yeah i can

speak to that a little bit um in addition to my role on the steering council i serve as a little bit of our uh steering council liaison to the uh or the foundation um

which is variously known as the pearl foundation the raccoon foundation or yet another society um so all of those are aliases for the same organization um and it is a separate

organization from us we are i mean i serve on their board as well as on the steering council but it is not otherwise there's no official link between the the two boards or between the board and the steering council but its purpose is to be sort of the legal institution

and the financial institution that uh supports the two communities the pearl community and the raise money and issue grants and sponsor different events and um there have not always been

ideally harmonious relationships between the yas and um the the different communities um sometimes people from the raccoon community have been upset with them sometimes people from the parole community have been upset with them um sometimes about the same thing at the same time

so there's been some some work to do in terms of making that a a good working relationship but there's also been a lot of uh you know really productive uh work done and and a lot of work that jonathan has done and others in the raccoon community have been funded by grants that that

yes has been the uh grant issuing organization for so um you know that is the status of the the raccoon foundation right now is it is an alias for yas just like the pearl foundation is an alias for yas and um and work is ongoing to get that that alias reflected in in websites and

marketing materials some of that is on us broadly and me in particular in terms of getting a revised website out that's one of the things on my personal to-do list um and and all of

that is sort of ongoing work to make that as smooth a working relationship as possible but i i think things are on the right trajectory but i'd love to hear differently okay um about

back to that vision and mission uh question uh an example was posted uh the example is open source org the stu the osi the stewards of the um open source license and open source uh definition um so i guess the question is uh in the direction of do we want to adopt something

like that a mission statement for raccoon or a vision what what is it we we want to achieve is is this vision what uh lis mentioned the basically uh create a cool programming language

that will last for another 80 years and at the community around that or do we aim for i don't know some kind of different impact on society what what are we working for really

do we want to create such a more elaborated vision or maybe just those two sentences that sum sum it up quite nicely and have this kind of officially adopted or something like that

i guess i guess the the question that this inevitably leads to is what would it be for what would we do with that just having a mission and vision statement by itself doesn't buy you much unless you use it for something so we would have to find out what this for is

um what uh would this uh tool bring to the table how could we use this tool this this statement to further our actual goals or to actually fulfill this mission

and i don't know if we have any ideas on how to use it one thing i'd say circling back to a

any sort of vision statement as a community that's the sort of thing i would definitely expect to come through the problem solving process and not be something that the the steering council made any sort of decision on without without significant discussion um i mean the the whole

point of a vision statement as i see it would be something that the whole community is coming together around and saying yes this is the community's vision for the record programming language so it it's always important to have as much consensus as possible but that's something i would be especially uh focused on on making sure that any statement we adopted really

represented a consensus view of of the raccoon community i think in that regard it's kind of similar to the code of conduct thing which was all also extensively discussed in the problem solving repo over a long period of time and in the end our job was mostly to be the ones who

say yes we're gonna do is we just adopt it and publish it and so go those last few steps who nobody else kind of felt responsible for doing after all the the contents has mostly been nailed down and discussed and consensus has had already been kind of reached

i think we have time for maybe just one more question because my timer is going down to two minutes at the moment is there any question we missed someone's typing i just wanted to

say so then this is it but let's see if the question arrives in time and let's see if the that i see in this little screen here is actually correct so to save some time later i've pulled this forward i want to thank uh all of you for uh posting these very thoughtful and interesting

questions and also thought-provoking questions was a very quick hour for me yep i guess maybe we should do this more often like maybe uh for the raccoon conference or something like that

there's a question that sadly jj is no longer here he would be the perfect addressee for this should p6 doc be a core item um i want to quickly share my personal view i think yes kind of documentation is uh and i'm

talking about module documentation is still a bit of a sore point i'm kind of spoiled by pearl there i was so used to just firing up man pages and and getting everything there and with raco i have mostly to look it up online um also because i personally i haven't taken