It's not here. So this is about OpenSUSE on netbooks. As you can see, apparently it takes a little bit longer.

It's one of those new, cool machines. Probably everybody has one with him. Yes, OK, so you all know what this is about. The new interesting stuff that Intel brought us, or at least they claim to have that. So, oh yeah, it is slower.

Yeah, OK. So I'll introduce myself first. I'm Stefan Seifried, working at the desktop team, or at the team mobile devices at SUSE in Nuremberg. And there I'm working with all sorts of machines,

among others, with the netbooks. And we are trying to get those going, if possible, out of the box, without any major hackery involved. But yeah, we'll see how this is working out. And we're basically doing all kinds of mobile stuff from netbooks onwards. So we are not doing much embedded stuff for phones or so.

We're the PC guys, still. OK, so let's start. The talk has three parts. First part is a little bit a short overview over the hardware. Actually not that interesting. Part two is the software.

There are, again, two parts. There are kernel drivers and stuff, and there's the user interface part. And the thing that I consider the interesting part of this talk is the tips and tricks in the daily usage. Because in the end, installation is usually pretty easy. But in my opinion, those machines are more than just a smaller notebook

or a cheaper notebook. But apparently, I have the opinion that you need a little bit of a different usage pattern for those. And I try to share what I have found out over the last year. And actually, I was using small machines all the time before. They had not 10-inch screens, but 12-inch screens.

But many of the experience is similar. So let's start with the hardware. What's so special about those netbooks? Those are usually pretty small and lightweight devices. As far as I know, actually, Intel forbids the manufacturers

to put in a larger display than 10-inch if they want to use the Atom processor, the cheap one. So all those machines usually have less than 10-inch display. They have a low power consumption if you compare it with other PC laptops. They have a small screen and keyboard.

The hardware is fairly uniform because most of them today have the Intel Atom processor and an Intel graphics chip. And there are some with a wire processor and wire chip, but they are not very common. And yet, they are also not that well supported. Let's say it that way.

Some models, for example, this one, have a pretty low storage capacity because it has a built-in flash device, which only has 8 gigabytes. And this can be challenging. There are also the triple EPCs. I think they had 4 gigabytes of stuff. Of course, that's not really a problem,

and this is more than a tenth of the capacity for my first hard drive, but it's still, for today's standards, it's not much. You need to look into that. What are the problems with this hardware? Yet and there we are again. It's the lowest storage capacity of some models

and something that I'm experiencing pretty painfully all the time is that especially those flash devices, even though they were sold to us as to be faster, more reliable, consuming less power, at least the cheap ones that are built into the netbooks are very slow.

They have a decent read and write rate, but as soon as you do an fsync, something goes awfully wrong, and yes, please come in. Something goes awfully wrong, and they take a very long time. For example, if you install packages, it's really a pain in the ass because the RPM database does an fsync on it all the time.

Then, actually, even though they all look the same from the first look at the hardware, it's not as uniform as you think. You cannot imagine what strange kind of wireless LAN devices you find on these things because almost every business notebook you get out there today has an Intel graphics, Intel processor, and has an Intel wireless LAN,

and those usually just work. They may not work perfectly, they may have some issues, but you basically never get one that just does not work at all. Those devices, there is apparently the possibility to save 50 cent

by buying some strange wireless chipset from some unknown Taiwanese vendor. It's brought us the RTL8139 LAN cards, or the infamous Broadcom chipset, where a reverse engineered driver exists, but it actually does not work that well all the time.

So, there are hardware problems, especially in the wireless area, which is a pity because, especially on those machines, wireless, for my opinion, is even more important than on a desktop. For me, I don't really care about wireless. If I have a desktop, and if I have a cable, I use that cable.

I won't use wireless because it's still faster. And on a normal notebook, most of the time it works. So, wireless is even more important, and you have to choose the hardware carefully to get it actually going. I'll talk more about this. And then, the machines are small. They have small batteries, which also means,

even though they need not as much power as a big machine, you still sometimes don't get a much longer battery life, or sometimes even a shorter battery life. So, going for six or seven hours is today possible with netbooks, and even more, but those are usually some machines with a pretty big battery or a bulky battery,

or those are what I call the high-end netbooks. They are also a little bit more expensive. Probably you get what you pay for there, too. Then we come over to the software, because in the end, the hardware is not really that interesting from a Linux distributor's point of view, because it just works.

The processor is not really different from an old Pentium 3, as far as I can tell. So, the kernel does not need special adaptations. Driver stuff that needed to get in for a chipset is already long and mainline, so there's no real problem. Apart from some device drivers, we'll talk about that. Or, as anybody had a different experience,

I said, OK, I had a machine that did not boot at all, and I needed some special Linux patch. I haven't seen this for quite some time, so... The hardware, it's there, and it's working, and so, yeah, can move on to the software. So, yeah, as I told, wireless LAN drivers are often problematic.

We have a nice hit list of... Actually, I asked my colleague who's doing the wireless stuff, and I asked him, OK, what should I recommend? What chipsets should I recommend? And he said, OK, spare those S. There's actually only one chipset that is sold in the netbooks

that you can actually recommend, and that's right now the Ethereum chipset, because that's the only one that has a driver that's working pretty well. I said, OK, but I have seen other netbooks also work, so there must be something that, yeah, OK. After S errors, there comes nothing, nothing, nothing, and nothing,

and then there's Raling, which have some out-of-three driver. They're actually working on it, but it's not really going upstream, and it's a little bit... you need a lot of tweaking, but if it works, if you get it running, then it works. I said, OK, but this can't be everything. There must be more drivers around. There's more hardware. But, yeah, then comes nothing, nothing, nothing,

and then there comes Realtek and Broadcom. Broadcom is especially funny because there is a binary-only driver on the Broadcom side, which is, of course, very funny because you have always... if you like this sort of fun, whenever you change the kernel revision, you have to check

if the module still works and if it still compiles, and it's actually not what I consider fun. And there's also a reverse-engineered driver, but it's good enough that it detects the card, and it sometimes works, but as far as I know, it doesn't do encryption very well, and it's not very well.

What's really funny about Broadcom, and something with which I say, OK, go tell these people what you think about them, is if you go to the Broadcom website, you really get a strong warning to please remove all this community driver stuff. I think it's in parenthesis, community drivers. I thought, OK, you know, this is what they are thinking about us.

Should we buy their hardware? I'm not sure. So, actually, if you want a machine, probably it's possible to get those all going, but it's with different levels of pain and of time you need to invest to get your machine running, to get your wireless going.

So, in my opinion, it's pretty important to check out before you buy the machines. They are all pretty similar. You get them all with similar display sizes. They have different keyboards and stuff, but that's, actually, they're all pretty small, too small to touch type, so check out if there's hardware that's well supported.

If there's an Antares card in there, I'd say go for it. There is no netbook known to me, actually, that ships with an Intel chipset. I was wondering why they are, but probably they are just costing $2 more or something like that, and that's, yeah, just too much. I've heard rumors about a special Intel netbook wireless LAN chipset coming up,

but I have not seen it, and so I cannot recommend it now. There's other stuff in these machines than wireless LAN. For example, in this Acer, this is an S-PIOR1. It's the flash model, the A110, I think.

One of the first Acer's, I think. The card readers, they need some tweaking. You need a special module flag to force the PCI Express hot plug driver, which is interesting. I never knew that card readers were PCI Express hot plug. And there's no other PCI Express slot, no Express card, but these are stuff that you need to get, sometimes, to get those going,

but in the end, it's the same as with other relatively new hardware. You need some special things. There are, yeah, how do I phrase that without insulting anybody, some interesting BIOS workarounds that you need,

and those are from those type that I usually have only seen from the very cheap consumer class notebooks that you get at the big food discounters or stuff like that. So, again, sometimes I have the impression on those netbooks, the BIOS is the same as the hardware sometimes, so they,

oh, it would cost five cents more to fix this bug, but we have a patched kernel where it runs anyway with the Linux distribution we ship, or it runs with Windows XP, so we ship it anyway. And depending on the vendor, it might be hard getting a fixed BIOS. So, for example, this card reader stuff with PCI Express hot plug module,

the kernel developers are arguing if it's a kernel bug or if it's a BIOS bug for you as a user. Yeah, it doesn't really help. In the end, this all is not really different from a normal machine, from a normal consumer class notebook.

They often have similar problems. The hardware is the cost efficient type, the BIOS is the cost efficient type, and you have to do some stuff to get it going. Even from, you get those from vendors, they know how to write a proper BIOS

because they have business class notebooks that just work out of the box. But, yeah, it's probably a different part of the corporation who is doing this. So, one part of the corporation has the good BIOS writers and the others have the bad ones. I don't know how it works.

Okay, any questions to drivers or stuff, or any experience you want to share if you had a netbook and had a really hard time getting it going? Anyone? Yeah? The new Ralink just works for some stupid reason.

Okay, so is it now in the staging tree, or is it the new driver that you get from the Ralink site? No, it was on the website always, you had to download it yourself, and now there is just a default module included in the installation, so I don't know where that module comes from. Okay, so, yeah, of course, Ralink are actually not the very bad guys

because they apparently have some problem working with kernel developers, and, well, all of you who ever had to deal with kernel developers, I can sometimes understand why people have problems working with those. It's not always easy. If there's a corporation that says, okay, we are doing a driver, and then there comes a herd of kernel developers saying,

yeah, you're doing this wrong, you're doing that wrong, there's a white space issue, I don't like your ugly defines, and so I say, okay, we are not really targeting inclusion in the kernel, we're just going for, you can download it off our site, and sooner or later somebody will also clean up this driver, and so if Ralink is now working better, very good.

So, in this case, I recommend Adaros and Ralink. Okay, yes? So, what about the camera? You are going to speak about camera driver, camera built-in in the netbook.

I actually did not try, but most of them are standard USB cameras. Of course, there's surely one or the other one who is non-standard and needs a special driver, but generally, USB cameras are more and more going for the, there's a universal video module.

He needs to pull it up, yes. The bison cam that everyone has, that was from aces, from really old laptops, that's now in everything, and only 2628, it's included, so now I have to recompile everything. Okay. So, that's just, because 2628 was already out, so they could have backported it, but they don't do that, so.

Yeah, but with the next kernel, when factory goes to the new kernel, or in the general distributions, all that I'm talking here is actually not really OpenSUSE specific, because it's the same for every distribution. So, when the distributions get the new kernel, then you get the driver, and what's good about this machine is actually that they are sold in pretty huge quantities,

so there's some incentive for many developers to actually work on those. Many people who, basically, stuff like reverse engineering webcam protocols, so you need somebody who really has a need to. You don't do this for fun, if you don't have the hardware for yourself, so that's, they are sold in huge quantities,

and they are actually cheap enough that people say, okay, it's not fully supported, but it's cheap, I'll buy it, and I'll try what I can do, and so we're getting pretty good driver development. I guess that will also happen to the wireless LAN drivers. I'm just a little bit pissed off that the situation is not really getting better after years, or not that much better, so there are a few chipsets you can recommend,

and still, year after year, there are a few you can't. But, in the end, it's not really different from a normal machine. For the user interface, there's actually, I'm advocating to try out new stuff. I'm a hardcore KDE user, normally, but on the netbook, I actually said,

okay, let's try something different, because KDE 4, in the default configuration, has a pretty huge, for a small resolution, pretty huge window decoration, and a big panel, and stuff, and actually, I think it's time,

with such a new machine, to try out different stuff, using, and generally, using a lightweight desktop, like, I don't know, XFCE, or a very lightly configured KDE, or Gnome, or whatever, is a good idea on such a machine, because they are generally fast enough for almost everything. You can even run OpenOffice on those.

They have enough memory, they usually come with, today, with one gigabyte, I think, this one still has 512, but it was one of the first that we bought, and usually they have one gigabyte and more, so you have enough, and the processors are also fast enough, it's not a problem. But generally, on a small machine, using small applications,

it might get you better performance and more satisfaction. When there's application, generally, on these machines, the screen width is usually not an idea. I have to admit that I'm a chicken. I switch to 800 times 600 for presentation, because otherwise, with the white screen,

we would probably have black bars left and right, and I didn't have time to sort it out. Generally, the screen width is 1024, or bigger on most machines, save the small, old EPC, EEE, which had, I think, 800 times 480, which is very small.

But those new ones all have 1024 times 600, or 576 new ones, apparently because the bigger panels are no longer available, they're all sold out, so they had to resort to 16 to 9. And the screen width is not a problem, screen height actually is. And there is stuff that needs to be fixed in the application.

I have found one, just a short demo, because it was so funny. Actually, in the Oculob KDE viewer that I was trying to set up stuff, and there's, where's the OK button?

It's gone, there's nothing, there's no OK button. So, for me, that's no problem. I know I can hit Alt and shift it up, and so I can hit OK and cancel. No, there's no, the next thing, there's no way to resize it. OK, you just resize that. No, no. Somebody decided that this dialogue has to be at least 600 pixels high,

so you have no way to resize that. And this is something that, I'm not sure if this, for example, would need to change in the, also in the toolkits. Why is there no flag? However, I can say, OK, I can resize this dialogue and it gets a scroll bar here, and without the application programmer having to know that,

but there's maybe a global flag, something, stuff like that will happen, I think, on a desktop, or another thing that, this dialogue is extremely funny, because I can show all those, all those pain that you have. If you do it to full screen, it's not going to get any more useful. For me, I've never done any QT programming or KDE or any GUI programming at all.

Why can't it just arrange this stuff side by side if I put it on full screen? The screen is almost double as wide as its height, so there would, obviously there would be enough space to put these buttons there, but there are not. So this is, those are issues with applications that I hope,

and I think they will be fixed, because all those applications need to get also more portable towards small machines, mobile phones. Nobody wants to program everything by, everything new, so they want to have just maybe a small layer on top that, like the, maybe the KDE, the KDE 4 plasmoid stuff already,

which has a, I don't know the word, some kind of context sensitivity. If you pull a plasmoid into the app, into the taskbar, it behaves, it displays differently, it still does the same thing, but you can, for example, put the photo view into the taskbar,

and there it's a button which shows you all the contents of the photo, and no longer, no longer, I like the normal desktop photo. Anyway, before I'm discussing here, desktop people are knowing and working on the issues. And if you find such a dialogue, like I found now,

I did not already file a bug report, but this is a bug in the end, and file a bug report. If you find it on OpenSUSE, file a bug report for it, because you might, sometimes you might need to argue with the developer why this is needed, but if nobody tells the people that this is needed, they won't fix it, unless they start using netbooks by themselves,

but probably not as the main development machine. So those are application bugs that need to be fixed, and this is something that's the duty of the users to report the bugs. We can try to fix them as developers, but the users need to report them.

Some stuff I find by myself, but yeah, we need bug reports. So now comes the interesting part, because that's what I found out. One more question concerning user interfaces. It appears to me that almost every distro or even every vendor

invents his own starting application launcher. So sometimes you have very big buttons on some translucent windows overlaid over your KDE or GNOME desktops and there are other approaches.

What do you think, will there be some kind of consolidation in the future, or do we have to deal with all the different approaches? Well, there's always, actually the last question was what is the OpenSUSE approach. I don't know, but I hope we will get some consolidation.

On the other hand, because there will need to be some consolidation, it's just a waste of resources when everybody does the same thing over again. On the other hand, you cannot restrict developers, because they do what they want anyway. And if they think it's a good idea, they will try it.

So you will always see variations on a theme with this stuff. Then there's in every, not all, but many of the larger distributions have a company behind it that has a marketing department that says, well, we need something to differentiate. And believe me, we try them, that differentiation with the number of buttons you have on the screen

or with the color is not a good differentiation, but they need to learn that. So I fear we have to live with that for a few more years, but in the end, the best solution will win out. And the more stuff that is actually tried and to try to find out what's useful,

what the users actually can use, what's good for them, that this is the thing that will prevail. That's the one that we will see five years from now. This is an open source world.

There are projects forked and rejoined all the time, and it's actually a good thing. And yeah, the question is, do we really need one more application launcher or don't we do? I wouldn't. Yeah, you can't fight everything. So then we come to the tips and tricks, and let's start with preparing your installation.

And I'm assuming, of course, everybody wants to install OpenSUSE on this brand new Shiny netbook. But also if you want to install something else. If there is another Linux installed already, I would actually recommend to create an image of the installation, if possible.

Or tar it up completely. Just make a backup of it. Or if it's known that the rescue CD that is shipped with it will actually work, then yeah, this is fine. But actually, creating an image today is not really expensive. You write it to a USB disk, and that's always good to have a way to go back. Because there is, often with the pre-shipped installations, there is a hacked kernel.

They have some strange kernel module. You need to find the option that's needed for the PCI Express hotblock module to get the card reader going. So creating an image allows you to restore the original state.

Backing up ETC basically is where most of the configuration probably is stored. And this allows you also to find out how did they configure special stuff apart. If they have a special kernel patch, you're out of luck. You won't find this in ETC and also not in the image, usually. Then, explore the original installation.

They often have put some work into it to making it usable for non-geek, normal users. Because those machines are actually sold to normal people with Linux on them. So they are not solely targeted on geeks, but also on mom and dad, basically.

You can sometimes get this on the food discounters in Germany, those machines. So they have done something to make this Linux a little bit more usable and try it out. Of course, often this is some annoying stuff for the advanced users,

but there might be one or the other nice thing in there. Try it out, explore it, and maybe write it down what was good. So if you later see, OK, I have now this OpenSUSE or Fedora or Debian or Ubuntu or whatever on it, and this is cool, everything is working fine, but this one button was really a good idea. Then, in the case of OpenSUSE, create a feature request.

Or if it's just a small thing, create a bug report, an enhancement bug report. Because I'm looking at some of those machines, but I can't look on all of them. And actually, for me, most of the time when we get a new one, yeah, we create the image, but then we have to get going to get SUSE running on it.

I don't have time to spend a day or two exploring the original installation. I try to, but often I just can't. So this is stuff which I think is important to the community at large to make the products better. Because often, if Acer sells this machine with its, there's also, I'm not sure what the desktop was that was on it,

but I knew there was an application that had seven or eight buttons, big buttons, an application launcher that normal people could launch their office, Firefox, email program, and it had some custom internet connection tool. I think the image was made shortly before network manager had all the features,

so they did something by themselves. And I think it's important to check out. Somebody was paid to do this, and it was probably not done totally wrong. So you can at least look at it and steal from them. If they don't release the source code to you, you can at least look, okay, we can do something similar or maybe something better.

That's important. Also, if you later need to get the hardware going, the installation you have on the machine when it's shipped is already running, so LSPCI, LSUSB, LSMOD, all this stuff, it can't hurt to save it on a USB stick and have it later.

If everything works out of the box, you don't need it, but you also have lost nothing. Then, a first try with a live CD or a live USB medium or something like that is probably a good idea to see if it's working at all or if it's maybe in that special case of hardware, maybe Ubuntu works better, so try before you install.

Then the installation as such is not really interesting. It just installs. You need probably a USB CD-ROM or a bootable USB stick and install via a network, but it's not really different to normal hardware. You just install on those machines. Those are big enough.

You don't need any special tricks that the installer can work. They have enough memory. They have fast enough processors. The only thing you might need to do a minimal installation or something like that, which is probably a good idea to not fill up the four gigabyte of flash completely in the beginning.

Do all of the recent networks support booting via a USB? Yeah, I have not seen one that doesn't. They all have recent BIOS, and you can boot them from almost everything. You can have USB CD-ROM, USB, just a bootable USB installation.

You can get one on the Zooty booth made with Zooty Studio, so they boot from that just fine. Okay, and is there some support into OpenSUSE to provide a USB memory image? I think, but I'm not sure.

I think there already is one, or at least it's easily createable with KIDI, for example. Yeah, I think the CD image is still just the boot image, and then you hope your network card is already detected, and then it does a network installation. That's what's supported at the moment.

Yeah, but there's also, I think there are also, there were USB stick images around, but I always create my own if I need one, to be honest. I'm not sure what's distributed. No, of course not. Yeah, of course. I think with every new distribution that we wrote,

there will be new ways to install the stuff. This is actually a reason. The more those machines become more common, they don't have an optical drive. People don't have USB CD-ROMs or USB DVD-ROMs ready all the time, so providing a USB stick image that you can just boot,

I'm not the product manager, but it's something useful, yeah. I will, we will hand this on. So, during everyday usage, there are some totally different problems. For example, if you have installed normally, the machine, if you are unlucky,

the machine gets detected with its 10-inch screen, and every application suddenly has relatively huge fonts on the small display, because with a 10-inch screen, you have a very, a relatively high DPI number, dots per inch, so the applications make bigger fonts so that you can read them,

which is a good idea if you have a 22-inch and a 19-inch monitor to have similar font sizes, but on this small machine, you actually, you want smaller font sizes. So, what do you do? You go through every application, change the font size from 10 to 8, or something like that, which is actually not funny. Or, you go to cheat.

You cheat with the DPI settings. Either by entering a slightly bigger screen size in SAX2, I, doing this since years, I'm having a, as a regular machine, a 12-inch subnotebook, and this has always had a 14-inch screen, so it sucks that it has a little bit, a slightly smaller DPI rating,

giving it smaller fonts, and because I'm nearer to the monitor anyway, I can get more information on it and still read it. Or there's the XR and R DPI switch, where you can, on the fly, switch the DPI setting of the currently attached monitor,

and, but this only works for newly started programs. I can demo it later if there's still time, it's really funny. Then there's stuff like, many people will probably not use this as their primary machine, they will have this as a secondary machine, so there's an issue of synchronizing your data. You have to, when you're on the road, or you're locked into a hotspot,

or downloading stuff, you probably don't want to download again at home, try Unison. Unison is a graphical, it's basically a two-way rsync, who already knows Unison? Okay, Unison is basically a two-way rsync tool with a graphical conflict resolver.

Very nice, should try it. Not only on netbooks, but it's good. You want to have your emails on more than one machine. Well, reading them from the local mail spool is probably the old geek way, but not the best one anymore, so be prepared to try out new ways, stuff like IMAP is pretty usable since a few years,

and actually with most old-style mail clients, you can still use it. So this is something that, if you use a central repository for mails with IMAP, you have the flags, or you never have a mail that was already read, as marked as unread on the other machine before, and stuff like that works very well. I always had my local mail spool because it's just easier to grab,

but finally when I had more than one machine in everyday usage, I switched to IMAP, for example. Sharing the complete home might be problematic because there is just too much settings of the desktops in there. It would be nice if it would work, but it doesn't.

You totally fuck up your KDE or your GNOME settings if you do that. There's just too much stuff that's dependent on the resolution that they actually save in there. Yeah, and to be honest, I have given up filing bugs against this stuff because basically most of those bugs were closed as,

yeah, this is not really a strange use case you are telling us here, and nobody is using NFS home anymore because it's actually the same use case. So sharing the complete home might not be the best idea. Create a directory where you have the data you need on all machines

and synchronize that with Unison. That's what I do, and this works very well. When you're on the road and you find out that you need to install a few more packages, if there's enough space on your machine, having an ISO image of the latest OpenSUSE DVD or at least the CDs

is very handy because you can just install additional packages without going to find where have I my USB CD-ROM or without having network connectivity. This is basically, yeah, this is especially true

because you don't have, usually you don't have optical drives in those machines. Generally, saving resources, using KDE 4 and then Firefox for browsing the web and Thunderbird for reading your email is probably not the best solution on a small machine

because you have the Firefox libraries twice or the Mozilla libraries twice, one for Thunderbird, one for Firefox and you have the whole KDE 4. So trying to stick to one desktop environment in this case is probably giving you a better experience.

That's generally the same way we're working with older machines. I recommend, okay, use either GNOME or KDE but maybe not Conqueror from within GNOME or Firefox from within KDE. If you can avoid it, there's always the webpage that doesn't work in Conqueror, yeah.

The last point is today not really an issue because there are no 64-bit netbooks yet as far as I know, but they will come. And if you have less than, say, two gigabytes of RAM, there is not really a big advantage in using a 64-bit machine. If you're a developer and you know you need a 64-bit environment,

okay, then go for it. But on a normal end-user's machine, probably actually 32-bits, usually the Flash plug-in works much better in 32-bits. 64-bits not only means that you can address more memory,

but every pointer is double the length and you need a considerable higher amount of memory without the machine doing anything. The kernel needs more memory. So today that's not an issue, but in the near future that probably will be. If you have more than four gigabytes of RAM, of course, even more than two gigabytes,

then 64-bit is the way to go, but until then, not really. So what have we left? Basically, that's what I wanted to tell. Yeah, exactly, because time for questions. Do you have any project with LXDE? LXDE is a netbook desktop environment,

and are there any plans that you do anything with LXDE, maybe have a USB stick with OpenSUSE and LXDE on top? Any ideas? I only did a short evaluation of it, and as far as I know, there are no official plans,

but there's always the possibility to create a product in the build service, and I didn't have the time until now to look closer into it. I hope that people in the desktop department will look into it, but it's actually a good feature request for OpenSUSE. I don't know if anyone's here interested in forming a project or talking about a project, maybe we can meet in a few minutes outside of the door.

Anyone interested in LXDE desktop environment with OpenSUSE? Yeah, we can do. Okay, one moment. For me, one of the most interesting things about the new netbooks

is that it's giving Linux to people who beforehand would never have seen it. Certainly that's the experience I have among friends and family and so on. But I was wondering if you'd seen any figures in the number of people who take, who are happy with the standard install, or actually do move on to, if you like, a more developed, you know, one of Ubuntu or OpenSUSE or something like that.

Have you seen any figures of the people who stay with it? Linpus, for example, on the Acer. I have not seen any figures. I actually don't know this, but we have very, a huge number of bug reports for the netbooks, and there are also lots of requests for enhancement and stuff,

and so I think there are quite some people who say, no, this is not the, basically they are used to the distribution, they want to use the distribution also on the netbook. It's probably more the geek type who wants to replace the, mom and dad will probably just stay with the installed one, yeah. But I don't have numbers, sorry.

What's your experience with the USB CD drives? Because I used the KDE Live CD from SUSE, and then my CD drive is too slow, so the kernel loses it and then tries to refine it, and then in the meantime it gives a timeout so I can never boot a live CD. What's your experience with that?

I have never a problem, but this is probably, it's device dependent, and so for me they always worked. I had different ones, USB CD burners, DVD burners, and small portable ones, and also at home I have just an old CD drive in a converter case, and for me they all worked,

so it might be bad luck or a bug that just never triggered for me. Of course, that's, yeah. Okay, I see time is up, so I'll be available at the booth later or in front of the door so we can, if you have questions, just ask.