Okay, so Welcome. Thank you very much for being here. I'm very happy about this invitation

To present my work in another context in the art world, which is very nice sometime to just be surrounded by artists So the room is made with seven empty chair basically and you attend a virtual meeting where my character Dina is talking to you about human reproduction in different perspectives all the artifact that you experience in reality doesn't

Really talk to you unless you have put the VR Experience and then you have another completely reading of the room that you have entered first So for me it was using virtual reality not as an escaping to another world But really expand the real world with another layer of narration basically

So the meeting is three minutes it's looping so you can enter at any moment and the character that speaks to you come a little closer and then you Enjoy the meeting What is this? Theme of reproduction. How is it used in that context? How what is the problem?

Actually, I'm gonna let the little story when I start 20 years ago I read in the newspaper that the noble sperm the Noble price people were giving their sperm freely in Hope to ameliorate the human race and I thought it was really funny I say wow, okay, and they call it the repository

Germinal choice. So I did the sperm bank on the internet as a cynical ironic answer of this whole idea That it take only the noble Price sperm to ameliorate the human race that thought wow So it worked very well people order sperm and I made genealogical

Tree with ten different sperm of famous people and make demographic studies of who they chose for which reason and all that So it was my first experience with reproduction and after that I decided okay I have to do more on this subject because it's absolutely crazy that reproduction becomes a product there for a selection there for technical Reproduction and you could go on and on with different analogy because it's actually talked about our society

right the way we perceive and consume life and then I distribute sperm in a zoo because I was like Oh, wow in a you know confined environment where reproduction is so selective, you know, you have a thank you. I'm totally thirsty

So It was 100 semen of the same man and Then I was with a caddy of supermarket and all the kids actually because it was free goodies You know injection with auto inseminate yourself. They came to me and the parents start screaming We're taking all the package that was funny and Then I wrote a book about no I did an animation if the technical reproduction of life is happening

What will be the end of life it will be as well a technical handing and then I wrote actually another book On science fiction of actually what if there is no more orgasm to create life? What is the difference is there a difference and if you can actually reproduce life in a technical manner there it becomes copy

there is not the slice in time where actually lots of Difference can happen right because if you have sex You're never gonna have exactly the same position with exactly the same time with exactly the same orgasm to create life but if it's just an injection with the same semen and the same oven

Appearing in a very technical and reproduce environment. Therefore you could have copies, right? Okay, so the reproduction could either be Technical in terms of how it is performed but also there's the possibility of cloning Which would reflect and I'm a cloning and actually cloning

I'm very interested too But I'm very much more interesting in this work about artificial uterus because for me this whole topic comes together You have the desire to go out the women's body to really control reproduction like from beginning to the end, right? Then you have escaping the earth because we're gonna trash this place or climate change or war whatever

So we already have lots of scenario Are we gonna escape so I made these images with an oven and a sperm going the other way around actually and the Spaceship going the other way and then you put this thing on your head So I was like well, that's a sign of our time We have this medium that just we put there we have to escape to another reality

So that's why this meeting is not only talking about reproduction about escaping but it's talking about the design that we're actually witnessing right now on The issue of reproduction and on the medium of its endless reproduction and copy of reality

Okay, so that in in the way you use VR it doesn't have the intention of Letting the users escape reality and how would you describe That's a hard one, but I hope that actually when you go there when you come back to reality you see

you're obligated because you had the story and the narration to expand your view on reality and Is this also the reason why you use a theatrical like? Installational room and objects. Yes It has to refer the room has to refer to reality. You have to ask yourself. Is it the AA meeting?

Is it a political crisis which kind of meeting that is when you see chair anyway, is it going to be a speech? Is it going to be a performance happening? There's a kind of absence just by those empty chair Right that the room already said something and then you see those artifacts that actually are covered they exist

But they're covered the same that this character is cover, right? It's a woman, but it could be a man, too We don't know It's a it's an idea of a human and then you use this idea of a human in all kinds of other Reproductive form of you know the paper the communication the Facebook the images the postcard the flyers And then you see this and then you refer to the story and then you refer to which kind of presence is real or not

You have those fake sculpture right there. They're dead then you have this virtual reality It's another level of presence then when I perform in the in the piece I act as the producer that I'm live, you know their life actually and I'm telling them lucky girls keep on the program You know you tell this VR story, but don't tell this one, which is really dirty when the lady but you know

so you You play with then another level of life of death and a virtual presence and of actually reproductive image I think it's that's a really unique point of view because It seems that there's an emerging

paradigm in How we evaluate new digital spaces and that augmented reality is more defined about control in both directions and VR is More of the perfectionism of perfect escape from world. So this is I've heard that yesterday and today as well again and again, and it doesn't become truer if it's repeated

so I really appreciate that that perspective and And how do you tell in VR if it's not and by by having the dominant

Artistic I take you out of this world and put you in another How do you tell when you're staying in this world with them? What narratives do work for you? How do you? Very good pieces today. I mean this Documentary works narrative works as well. It's just I like this idea that you can move and be in another world and it's

But for me, it's always then keep this idea of reproducing reality, you know of definition on You still stay a lot in this. I don't know in You still feel you're in VR and you felt the definition and the motion see it's not an experience that I'm really I

Never had one that I'm like wow. Okay, that really needs this tool to give me this impression you see How do you perceive your own body when you when you're going into VR? That's the thing. It's if you don't move with the thing. You're like, oh, it makes me a little sick You know you sit there it goes up and down and like or it everything moves that it has to be slowly and I don't

I'm not so fan of all those things except if you would be really moving But which makes you know, you need this wireless stuff and be in spaces where there is no obstacle and all that So that's another thing I'm I don't know my next project will not deal with reproduction

I think I'm really you know, the copy the reproduction and all that it's it was nice But now I want to use VR as an expand expansion of consciousness how I Want to work on lucid dreaming because there's very easy technique to lucid dream, right? You you look at your hands five minutes before you go to sleep for a week

And then you have lucid dreaming that that works I tried it, but I would like to use the VR to actually expand these possibilities and Then if it works That means that's fantastic because you use a technological tool to experience your dream in a more lucid way So that works for me So the technology is not a natural fying things that you escape or you have less

capacities because you use it so much but on the contrary it gives you the the talent of its potential What what kind of stories would you like to? To tell as an artist if they might influence the actual dreams of people

Yeah, that's what I would like not to influence them as minimal as possible. Just I've amplified You know all the wave but they made research on how to get more lucid dreaming, right? Visual hypnosis and the different waves the different earths So just use those technique in a most minimal manner to try to trigger more lucid dreaming potential

But then it's the dreamer was like all the images that he has or accumulate throughout the day that comes in a more awakening manner to the person so you would more or less Influence people to create art in their head, which is total ephemeral could never be reputed

Reproduced and maybe not even remembered when they were you remember lucid dreaming you really remember. Yes That's the beautiful thing about it Everything is totally clear and you know that you're dreaming which actually should be the thing of VR VR you're there Okay, you have a certain narrative

It's always this thing of you know of trying to have definition when it's in your head and you wake up and you dream That's the best virtual reality isn't it? It might have a big question mark on authorship and copyright So

You How do you produce the in that house your production process so you use like a Set design you also design objects you write Intricate text for like a drama for several characters and you produce VR

How does that come together with good friends because the I you know like you I suppose you heard the talk about VR Production and all that. I mean, there's no economy yet except if your game game developer Okay, which I'm not but game is a great thing But if you don't do game and you're not in a publicity agency to make marketing with VR. I mean there is not much

Production money so you need good friends that have talent and then you can exchange You know your competence to I had a friends who helped me because I couldn't film myself on green screen and do all everything So he helped me and I helped him but and how do you develop the themes artistically?

so there's something that comes first or is Always what I want to say with the thing and I was really I need a meeting I need many different girl to talk about this and with humor with economy that think people understand You know you extract sperm with hand jobs and all those prostitutes becomes like not like cheap slot anymore

But their worker and then they get the sperm and then they make cream to the youth product and it becomes economy You know and then you talk about okay? It's not about any more It's not a dark thing, but at the same time it has to just be

Thought that we're little self-self reproducing each other and what's the quality of this life that is reproduced You know at this make it a little science fiction, but at the same time little You know can condense and humor is taken But the question was like how I produce I start with the text the three minutes is very important

I wanted to say things in three minutes, and I know people have no time they come there They try it so you have to be efficient, right? So the text came first and then the idea of a meeting and this idea of talking with reality Not that being just your head you sit, and you're in another world no No, you in this world therefore this absence and this other presence in virtual reality

I wanted to play with that and therefore all the different Traces right the sculpture are dead then they're the performer alive the VR character in this other dimension the print on the The photos and then the VR thing which is the paper the really cheap cardboard things and all those different

Materialization of presence and would you like to scale that up? Of course But I think the subject is a little frightening all these sperm things and economy and selling sperm

So it's just the Canada Council was interested, but I think it's I frightened them a little They will come back Because it's really hard to produce VR with no money I mean you I don't know who are you producing VR or is there anybody producing VR in here or interest or?

Consuming VR no yes Yes, so you try stuff, and you see that I mean it's difficult to have good production You know because it's all about creating this definition right So yes the challenge, but there's model the thing is there is model if you go more in the Asian

Model side of thing companies are putting a lot of money to have artists to develop Stories and product and the product It's really residency program from Canon from different company they and they support this development because they know that it's a winning thing for them and Companies should put way more money to have artists sitting on there

You know in their office and make great experience no string attached just push their product you know And what about public funding could you imagine that this would be a Strategy to develop your work further yes I would love that but I will work on the Canada console for the art because selling semen and reproducing

People might not be so interesting for a Canon, but I mean maybe but beside from from exhibitions like Tina's or Festivals like this there's very little room to present and even make your work known yeah

The dream I'm going more to the dream subject Let's frightening oh, I'm just gonna try to put everybody to sleep and this they're also a distributing plan about this dream because they're this and this

The these YouTube films where they comb your hair, and it makes your skin prickle They're also pay for prickle my skin sites is that something we might By a company, and then you have this for free right yeah Yeah, like in the 50s presented by like the toothpaste data

And then you have a show and also for when you have your lurid dream project going on it could be Downloadable for yeah, yeah, but I was talking earlier actually and Yeah, a little game Maybe you know something that are really short and a good experience with the dream thing

I think that could work, and then you could download this for two three bucks or something or get it for free and then Have a little extended version all those model, but it's yet, then it becomes a small business I mean you need a little support to make all this happen and the marketing and to put it on the platform and What ten minutes so?

Maybe we'll yeah, yeah, we would like to give you the chance to ask a real VR artist questions Interesting and also just It's on the second balcony in this corner of the cool house. You will find Lealyn's installation enter me tonight

until tomorrow evening possible are there any Questions you know Nick. I can't see anything Maybe they haven't seen the piece that might be difficult. Yeah It's a little challenging. What was your lesson? Maybe that was a production? Yeah

Phone is there we go I was wondering what why don't you work with with gaming companies because I think in in this particular media medium the virtual reality I think everything is like

Yeah, maybe coming together like there's arts This we saw the porn industry. There's the gaming industry and they have interests and maybe the conceptual ideas of artists Is there any connections structure? I mean I haven't heard of a gaming company

I mean, I know some people working in gaming company I could push it, but I have to organize it to say okay in your structure You need a program to devote I don't know ten hours a week with two programmers that you know they need resource and in general They're totally overwhelmed with their own production then if you don't have any structure

Nothing's gonna be done. You know and that's what Canon Art Lab did so well Did they provide three? I think we had three engineer working full-time for like three weeks on the project We dig we went seven German and Canadian to Tokyo We had the exhibition and we had the production and we had money I think a lot of money and then that okay

But that can't that you know gaming companies should do this of course, but it has to be a program set in a certain So you last question do you think that's the old struggle the artists looking for money somewhere? like in Advertisements like or in the sections where there is like the potential of using the technology for their own needs

Yeah, is it just like the the old? It's always the same I mean the artist used to you know paint portraits of kings and all I mean it's the same you have to make an Association that's a win-win situation right and in those world where it's really hard for I mean how many artists survive it's one

0.2% of any artists that can make a living out of it, okay, so therefore What's the all the other strategy and when you're an artist you have to do it all right you produce the product you? Market it you sell it you do so and that if you want in working with technology I mean, it's a lot of resource to produce anything then therefore you need the support of companies that actually will win of course

And we'll get more clues and insight of all kinds of topics for their own game development, but do they have the you know the Understanding that it will actually be beneficial because they already sell a lot right, but it's not the point It's like they already make money They already have a market, but they could do something different that might be more beneficial for you know all kinds of I

think that I Wouldn't leave the politics out of it, and maybe that's I hope it's not boring But I really feel strongly for that and we will repeat that this evening at 5 30 on that stage again because it's it's a

big mistake to leave VR or new emerging digital arts out of the art funding in Berlin and Especially the the critical mass that is in the city and the independent game developers that are not corporate fixated and doesn't work to work at a big scale your shooter and the independent tech developers

They should be also Able to access public funding for their art and if those people are kept in town and the performing art scene is kept in Town and the tech developers are kept in town then lots of interesting things will come out of it Yeah, but this actually the problem is like there's not enough mass critical production

That's interesting for the people to get those device to actually consume it so therefore we have to go They don't think about this and those companies a for a little amount of money I could have independent game developer and artists creating more content therefore making a more mass critical

setting more I mean the next question is Hi, Lee We just had an awesome brain data. So the people who don't know the format do brain dates. That's really cool So we talked before for half an hour and you said that's really expensive to get the production process of VR for artists going How are you virtual reality artists connected with each other to help each other the problem of?

Of the production process is there like platform, you know Like 50 VR artists and you come together you do the products You have to do development and I know that development or app development or whatever in that kind of sense is really expensive How are you guys organized there in the virtual reality artist scene?

Actually, that's a good question I know there's the VR meetup that actually are in Berlin in different locations So you could go there and but I mean they already have their own project So you have to fit them, you know, it's never so easy But then yes, you have to exchange your time and your competence to make it happen with you know

But there is not I don't know of any art VR platform, you know dedicated. It's more gaming and more yeah But Philip isn't what he's doing Philip. Oh smile. No, it's yes like a VR So it's more artists related

But It's it's an art curated exhibition. Maybe that's a good idea to have a platform for exchanging knowledge and competence This would be very good. That's good. That will support a lot of people. That's good stair a second question, maybe

oops We have no time anymore. How are we I think someone for a minute? Not quite sure maybe your last for the road We'll wrap it up I guess so Thank you, dear Lin Thank you for the interesting talk and the insights on how artists are dealing with VR

We'll have a short break right here. We'll be back in 15 no 20 minutes with an interesting discussion So stay tuned and have a good pause. Thank you