Aaron Ciechanover - Interview by Mathias Bähr

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Video in TIB AV-Portal: Aaron Ciechanover - Interview by Mathias Bähr

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Aaron Ciechanover - Interview by Mathias Bähr
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Prof. Dr. Aaron Ciechanover (Haifa) im Gespräch mit Prof. Dr. Mathias Bähr (Göttingen) über seinen Werdegang als Wissenschaftler, seine Arbeit und die Rolle seiner Entdeckung des Ubiquitin-gesteuerten Proteinabbaus für die moderne Medizin. Aaron Ciechanover erhielt im Jahre 2004 den Nobelpreis für Chemie zusammen mit Avram Hershko und Irwin Rose.
Prof. Dr. Aaron Ciechanover (Haifa) talking to Prof. Dr. Mathias Bähr (Göttingen) about his professional development as a scientist, his work and the role of his discovery of the ubiquitin-proteasome-system and its impact on modern medicine. Aaron Ciechanover is the Nobel laureate in chemistry in 2004 together with Avran Hershko and Irwin Rose.
Keywords Ciechanover, Aaron Nobelpreisträger Medikament Krebs Ubiquitin-Proteasome-System Proteasome Ubiquitin Ligase Lysosomen Proteolyse Eiweissabbau interzellularer Proteinabbau Biochemie biochemistry intercellular protein degradation lysosomes ligase ubiquitin proteasome ubiquitin-proteasome-system cancer drugs protelolysis Nobel laureate Ciechanover, Aaron
Collecting Growth medium
Alpha-1-Rezeptor Sense District Origin of replication Gesundheitsstörung Medicalization Tiermodell Pharmaceutical drug Sea level Biochemistry Wine tasting descriptors
Systemic therapy Pharmaceutical drug
Pharmacology Trauma (medicine) Reaction mechanism Physiology Pharmaceutical drug Chemical reaction Biochemistry Chemistry
Syndrome Golgi apparatus Biosynthesis Metabolism Controller (control theory) Topicity Process (computing)
Systemic therapy Tiermodell Polymorphism (biology)
Systemic therapy Combine harvester Proteolyse Tool steel Handelsdünger Life expectancy Pharmacy
Protein DNS-Synthese Chemical structure Gene Protonation
Carbonate platform Systemic therapy Transcription (genetics) Dessert DNA replication Translation <Genetik>
Nahtoderfahrung Activity (UML) Photodissociation Renewable resource Korngrenze Wine tasting descriptors Genotype Systemic therapy Klinische Chemie Cell (biology) Silencer (DNA) Red blood cell Base (chemistry)
Systemic therapy Reaction mechanism Cell (biology) Protein Renewable resource Sickle Pharmaceutical drug Chromosomenaberration Base (chemistry) Thermoforming Isotopenmarkierung
Ring strain
Systemic therapy Neoteny Reaction mechanism Protein Amino acid Medical history Conjugated system Propionaldehyd
Potenz <Homöopathie> Reaction mechanism Walking Wursthülle Soil conservation Phosphorylation Gesundheitsstörung Protein Posttranslational modification Tool steel Translation <Genetik> Process (computing) Isotopenmarkierung
Systemic therapy Klinisches Experiment Reaction mechanism Operon Sea level Conjugated system Epinephrine
Human subject research Transformation <Genetik>
Setzen <Verfahrenstechnik> Recreational drug use Diamantähnlicher Kohlenstoff Octane rating Cancer River source Systemic therapy Molecule Origin of replication Lead Gesundheitsstörung Enzyme Functional group Lactitol Gene therapy Shuttle-Vektor Tool steel Regulatorgen Derivative (chemistry) Arzneimittelforschung Inclusion (mineral)
Deterrence (legal) Vulcanization Agriculture Recreational drug use Inhibitor
Bone marrow Chemotherapy Gesundheitsstörung Plasma cell Controller (control theory) Singulettzustand Inhibitor Steroid Cancer
Agriculture Gesundheitsstörung Reaction mechanism Chemical property Tool steel Radioactive decay Thermoforming
Systemic therapy Origin of replication Recreational drug use Stress (mechanics) Endoplasmic reticulum Cell (biology) Radiation damage Protein Controller (control theory) Tool steel Wursthülle CHARGE syndrome
Systemic therapy Ubiquitinierung Metabolic pathway Protein Controller (control theory) Posttranslational modification
Famotidine Chain (unit) Proteolyse Ham Chemistry Deterrence (legal) Molecule Cell (biology) Protein Transcription (genetics) Posttranslational modification Active site Translation <Genetik> Setzen <Verfahrenstechnik> Surface science Ubiquitin Genome Wine tasting descriptors Alpha-1-Rezeptor Paste (rheology) Systemic therapy Stream gauge Attachment theory Phosphate Functional group Umweltchemikalie Thermoforming
Chemical element Enzyme Medicalization Ageing Activity (UML) Stiffness
Deterrence (legal) Systemic therapy Recreational drug use Pharmaceutical industry Binding energy Substrat <Chemie> Ubiquitin
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the that's welcome you again in getting and thank you for giving this interview so on I want to start very early on so what really a guide you into natural sciences what what was your initial motivation or some aspects in your life that really got to to do research at all the well it was complicated there and
because when you go up as a kid you you never know what researchers you have no clue what the the lab is the model the lab looks like solid many other key there was receptor medicine so I started my life in medicine but then I realized that medicine is a little bit boring in the sense that it doesn't provide us with a mechanistic close to do this we treat patients but we don't understand the origin of the disease but then going away from medicine was also difficulty of the gradually and to think of it steps so I decided to take 1 year off during medical school I went to the love affair level biochemistry but I wasn't sure because then is family and you need to make a living so it takes a few that can force so when that to medical school graduated and served in the Israeli army a physician and then decided to go to surgery but then surgery
probably the last blow so this is so important on 1 hand but so boring and rather than in the ways of operating for
40 or 50 years the sentiment that the world will my PhD again with emotion that they keep some save the B lines so I decided to for them several years the PhD Miltiades something that dialog on you and there go back through for medicine and then you know within 2 years we discover the system and I will show them on the right where most of the overseas but about whether it was very good in the medical education as a lot for my understanding of natural science I don't regret any of these flip-flops in those took time so you you had the possibility during
your work in the hospital to do it kind of lost CCs or something has done during medical studies this can take you off in the medical school and computed in
medical studies and all must this wasn't all there is no real more sophisticated now we have evolved in MD PhD programs and we have the whole machinery to educate clinician-scientists at that time because the I had to go away to leave and to come back but the possibility was the but how did you come across biochemistry I mean
usually that's not the 1st choice it's very complicated for the user I I know that people usually it will biochemistry extends are so difficult so what what but what I want you have the choice was between 3
basic rules no about at the time so the choice was between 3 the physiology and pharmacology at the closer to to medicine and especially pharmacology or biochemistry and I really loved the basic mechanisms wanted to understand the reactions and the whole thing so carrying similar and we had excellent the park and about chemistry in the medical school so it's part of serendipity life and it's not all that we planned everything we think that we clamber you wouldn't awesome wasn't motivated by people and injured need
to certain people yards record you are excellent mentor setting that this this accompanied the all along the line of the force keys
all along the way but there at that stage we had excellent biochemist in the medical school at the trend in Germany that all the depression at some can even for getting him from the pre-war timing and the the focal their Department of Chemistry that the phonetic school and that was the 1st so what that's part what was your research
topic at the time of the working on 15 he
commented for produced for the linear and there started long process in the liver and that it was very interesting with the although purely the surprise glossary that loss of control and progress through the biosynthesis of it was used effectively and comes back now and always think about metabolic syndrome wouldn't appreciate how important is now it's coming in the back of your people start to really appreciates the what's going on so you basically did
biochemical studies in this rat model no computer in compute an average of William and then it started along several years 10 more useful flip-flop back and forth in the military service finishing medical studies
surgery back and forth back and forth and them until a certain long so how did you
finally find your research field this was was a from national hours or so was in the room the name of my
surgical training and I felt that this is not for me the started to look for a mental and oven was very you just came back from His can for locally started this variant person and search for a carefully for movement or and I was attracted to the most because of the risk uh because each mental typically in 1 the people are looking for mental they offer them some subject and then the like of the same subject and of a morph would mean nothing sh disturbed that there your for the title the problem that the system because those no system and what was the title but that it was
proteolysis in that there was no system
OK so that he wants to look for the system but there was most system and I like the risk and I thought OK let's think useful tools for years and still on human life is long you can do so many things in life the let's take it for both real and the novel was written language of chemist and we will lock in a lucky those it's it's complicated call ones getting into the system but at the right time the right problem right the right combination of people the right thinking everything was it it was very unusual at that time to study fertilizers and not
protein sentences and evolving of a structure of proteins the unusual is that it is on the street
here because of deviation from normalcy and nobody cared about and it was the computer neglected freely piscivorous was the mid seventies and people in all this was after the beginning of revolution of DNA and Watson and Crick and irony everybody was interested in how the gene was translated from the proton but other protons garbage nobody care
there that is garbage the garbage bin could we don't care about their business on toward the periphery of
the wasn't looked like an important platform so were very very few people in the field so this was another it's there was no systems very few people are willing to talk go here and there I remember the 2 big names in the tree and that's taken out of the huge world works on the lot transcription and translation and replication and so it was like going to the desert in many ways but elected anyway video for risk and none of us had the flu what's behind that's how can you guess what behind yeah and I decided to make a lot of Roman we started the and 76 we start with the John so what did you use what kind of to choose to study but the rows of this saloon
also but then that the choice of the system was also and difficult and easy close the differently because there no genetics of the time interval take cells and say OK there's is the lines of the new manipulate the lysosome USA are in April you knock it down or you know you understand stable you lose something to inactivated so the other system with your looking will come up so we had to move go to major major is still an interface with this whole idea of absolute of for example that most physician and all that but the best example of this patient made they may not like to hear about it didn't look on examples from studies but nevertheless mutations image rather the school for us and them so we have to go to nature and we chose the side we were we're both physicians so this was another now it's it's really many lessons on the road because physicians are can be we can very basic aspects of research will other and they can bring lots of knowledge from the clinic so we went to the article said it is beyond the red blood cells the maturing whereabouts the maturation uses the lies so we don't have any activity of a background system so it was open to all our system if it's better than renewal since there are no no other system because photolysis can be carried out of the way the lives near so we look for something that doesn't analyzes on because we wanted to silence the background by deducing that there's another
system at all where did this was this was complicated because people believe in the
license all at the lysosome is the overly the aggressive so operative but then many doubts came up and again some from basic science and some for medicine in and and the performance for only uh basic science people from for example the different proteins of different half-life based on the labels on the mechanism of action you couldn't explain 3 looks difference what problem goes away in few minutes and and 1 protein survives for several days so this could be explained and their and their people knew all that the from form for medicine renewal that in the more global not perceived in sickle cell anemia angeles-area abnormal proteins are degraded him where there normal proteins of space so so so not only that there must be a system but you could conclude that the system must be specific in because how is it that the system can take the of knowing little green and not the normal so it's not just throwing it into 1 garbage but really selecting
selecting garbage so this was very important
selected garbage so so basically you think about it think about science is they're very conservative and they're they're blind they they believe what they knew that they leave all those
who the strain so everybody works on something so they do work on something but then all the my without I mean and I always 1st the students that we we were just that in this scene
there all the knowledge was there before us and lots of fluid was ended after us we just added but you have to put the pieces together the i have to put the
rest of the world out have to glue it into existing knowledge and then to future knowledge but but but the milestones and everything was very low hemoglobinopathies had been there for an hour everything was there you just have to collect this isn't to say well it does you a story that is the 1 of the story is right or wrong and and how did you come across a big treating all
of that other than this already pure Wilkinson was
started to purify the cisternae enduring traditional system resolution small propane we initially called it differently we call EPA formally to give a proposal for the 1 and then by by the uh by uh amino acid analysis and then by by the game by being in the right time in the right place we we have been is consistent the and people working with you because in the larval and we can always AP if 1 and the same conjugation mechanism that there may be a protein is after all ubiquity and lots of serendipity and 1 day when I retire I know and that's going to happen if ever there share the the uh the components of luck and serendipity far exceed the brain's repair invested in history you youth unbelievable however the Stateflow just note line to the right place at the right and good and we will miss the the nothing at what time did
you realize that this was really important new step and an important discovery the while it
we realize it's early on because we're out of the power already in the early eighties because it was a very peculiar mechanism it's a very unique way of course translational modifications upon protein that's sort of what people voted about the conservation was known labels relation and phosphorylation but 1 protein that that is to another protein this was completely out that out there I mean people didn't imagine and signaling so it's signal for the revision of the signal for the relation would be such a modification soul we know that the case that it's novel and it's it's it's it's a it's a change in apartment should complete shift of in part that's how important it is we could guess that but that that took another 10 years and I think that it took up all the way to the early eighties late eighties but mostly in the nineties and not by us people just bumped into a all of a sudden everybody the portal problem found himself in the middle of of you but the pre 53 people follow that the reported in the great lakes and and the force that would make people and then the brave people and their and once this became a part and the diseases case start the common including article this from inherited neurological disease like environments in in kids and tool adult acquired this is from Parkinson plots I'm fool to way less still 2 other diseases and then brought companies k-means so it was kind of a gradual window that sh we away from the part and so this fossil sufficient within green 1 Oakland expected of development of once many processes came here and then the aberrations diseases and the blast then it became the yield from major prophets each experience moments where you
sort you should these this track it will truly end in a constructive new paradigm no
no I don't think over I think when they give myself blind that may be Lucky turned out to be right but they some sometime during the preview they my and trials that they decided if nothing were examined find myself again in the the ball that I will cooperate and grave the operation theater or stadium a lot of satisfaction in it's so that I was note that actually mean detection splashing bluff the the uh the necessity to pick to varying very rapidly the patients are there and it's not that it's life people people's life and so so the operating theater has its adrenaline his 1st not devoid of tension and it's very active and size of the go to operate for the rest of my life but then what cover the system and we separated the components and we were into the conjugation annually and into something computing more the mechanism must be important and so it's something very unusual during my postdocs I went to a different level that subject only to what I them got I mean
when I only allowed on Monday but what about the environment and in the world there be and good because they worth a little bit on on
the subject that was in the lab of this was basically train it so it's nothing serious you know it really work on the I want to self-evidence transformation of within room so stayed close but there but most of the time I devoted to the consistent with lots of fun because this was my 1st real dependencies computing was on my own the this was very important so you just mentioned now the relation
to human disorders like like cancer but also in Europe degenerative disorder that when see the current status in the field and maybe also what you foresee for the next few years can we use the knowledge about the system to design new drug targets or to to really human disorders that as far as the system is are there is a drug already in the market source for
hundreds of millions of dollars in there are many more but but we have tools to spilled this into 2 and 1 would be easier not easy easier and 1 will be very difficult unfortunate I'm afraid that nor generated this is really difficult sigh and the and and because because this is a this are are are different in columns in in which ubiquitous system is over active there is function when an enzyme over the greatest such so there's no problem because companies can come design small molecules they interfere what's the elusive function the system fails it's very difficult to revive so that we find ourselves again in the general swamp of gene therapy viral vectors will people face so far and many other diseases so I am and concerned that that once we are losing function can be much more difficult you can also put a distinction in this 1st derivatives systems concerned with men and women to stress that this afternoon and there between 2 types of diseases if you are losing function then your Q rating propagates you're of garbage for things in all the this is almost of the origin of this is almost with no exceptions are a whole lot size some accumulation be so the that could be dull perceives let these single cleanup of the is that could be whatever and and and this overall intranuclear inclusions important cue expansion this is constant on the different schools of the effective and so on so so this is very difficult uh once you are hitting like in cancer will always that lead to 53 so so and that's the 53 that is a regulator is over the greater than again it's very easy to through there were other x only the fear of other examples that it really
works in a certain can't time all the other blogs meaningless as 1 example which has been the other is about
cable and it's a drug names but with but only later ones and on and on so well and there's another 1 to discover this is already marketed in Germany including was the problem is the leading uh how does it work it works by inhibiting the with and so again developing an inhibitory is better than developing an accelerator in general and farm and that we lost position is at a specific inhibitor if they're not such a
specific inhibitor with a specific inhibitor of 1 of the components of the protozoans it in his
supporters and users of those of the multiple of malignant plasma cells in the bone marrow and it's imagine rogatory it's does what all of that the control on all the of the when the file and agree mice in all that all typical chemotherapeutic and steroids Hindu-Buddhist patient was a possibility disease so that disease and now some patients and not a significant fraction of 15 % of the patient to benefit from me from so it basically works in
inducing apoptosis in its uh but from a different mechanism so it's not an
apoptosis is induced by giving them at it's not enough of does is that it is very radiation Latinos dimensions it's apoptosis that caused by accumulation of above-normal properties so the bride has 2 advantages on 1 hand it's coming from a different direction so you're not attacking the classical mechanics did which makes it no amenable to combinatorial treatment because now you can't radiation killed 1 working with theory synergistic rather than additive you're not working on the same conditions so pharmacology clique opened their role to similar Jason rather than to add it which fall for the farm idea great inform cause because it's a great idea and also because it doesn't give such deleterious effects on their neighbors side effects on my so you don't see this nausea patients with the uh uh pancytopenia always there that are succumbing to infections tool form would those these all this this is the goal of this war and the scientific see with this patient that the the printed with the immune suppressive books so how exactly does it induce apoptosis and how
can you accumulate proteins and thereby inches of tools their what the the
drug is doing in the drug ecting mostly on what we call a secretory malignancy or plus another so this is not the real we're secreted and so it's like according to control you can imagine that there Beaverton system is in charge of quality control in the what's all image of his father profits should be taken care but normally now you can imagine a quality control and its original folks and it's on production line and is making thousand goal of some sort of a thousand goats 1 should be taken up so there's some inspection that says this goal is not good think can also now that's normally thousand most so that if you are now making me and goes to the likelihood so so the because they're cranky then you have 1 thousand goes that should be removed so you need a much better quality a saturating the quality control of the quality control normally was before 1 column of 4 thousand cards but we removed from the production line so all the 998 cars are now populating the garbage in garbage proteins induced cell damage and and in this particular case the the inducing ER stress of endoplasmic reticulum stress and you PROT unfolded protein response in the cell just died so you can imagine what happened if the quality control was built for 1 or 2 cars and all of a sudden thousand cars have to be removed and then the quality control just contended so they're sitting inside and buying up and can the system will backlogs and persistent behind yeah other related systems to ubiquitin I
mean recently learned at sumoylation may also play a role and maybe even exchange of ubiquitinylation they play a role in
the control of these different is aspect is that think it's not only the garbage control but it's
also modification of proteins so we recently learned that the system is not only a quality control but also kind of directory of proteins into certain pathways and systems yeah you're absolutely
right so to our great so all all cheer she's sexually scientist and where the cheerful and we were pushed computed the the site so we're now we are occupying 1 corner of all systems of proteolysis is 1 single function unit consistent that keeps us busy and this was the start then something really magnificent happened that the baby system has evolved tremendously important you would be very rich language of course translational modifications and it had been able to do so because the modifications by problem for this by themselves or each molecule the many modifications that can appear in not only that but proteins have family members so if you take phosphate with all due respect the force with forces that doesn't have family members that can do the same and fostered by itself and will to steer entailment I wasn't be phosphorylated but ubiquitous and you know we have a larger civil and other so more this was discovered with Rochambeau correct images in friend achieved next door neighbor and it was the getting air when she was a possible Kosovo's Laura durations and the instantiable then and and so what is not there Japanese wall here and there the more you visited wood-fired but then following so what else was covered and so now we can use not only we put but because my proteins to modify proteins in the same principle using the same very principle the purpose is computed from so this is for this proteins to bring to our proteins into the main the needs of the cell into the right there at the station because nobody things in all always everyday real driving cars and they're all takes us so the GPS data but in the cell when it alters the GPS in the cell proteins notable where they go so so maybe 1 1 type of a traffic light and then there is metadata and other images like what is but be the chemistry interesting language because the typical chain is it lies 48 change 1 ubiquitin jumps on the other being the polluted genomes and attachment point for proposes is always the same but they are different attachment of the protein as long as you can imagine that you cannot actually 2 different points so you can attach it and then it can be different chains in this that and the and and and therefore ham and they did this these different chains and for the different functions so while 10 years ago when I was asked what is a big I was very so I said to be quickened is the relations sigma if I would ask now what is ubiquitous I would say that it is possible so what is a passport past but is a document adopted a lot to different countries and within that the same so if there is a specific chain so protein where lies in specific lies interval the proposal if it so more for certain protein of the problem if it's only going to Information Office surface receptor from go to the lysosome and if it's a different chains on lies in 63 provoked lot transcription so basically it's a novel form of course official notification that since different problems that different functions in the so that that also makes it more
complicated to design therapies because if you I just want to block the system you may end up also with this function of the cell due to transport disturbances of the proteins as our value you go in but then the other hand you
may argue that it provides you with more targets so depends on how 1 looks at the so the more specific the target the better you are obviously but with the whole idea is to go to the Rose what was if you will to the activation enzyme you make kill the patient but if you go to a specific point if you will to assume all ideational to the medication because immigration before the age of the universe success successfully you find yourself heating very specifically 1 point with low side effects and only 1 was keeping all the rest of them have it so it's probably a lot that provides complexity but on the other hand provides you flexibility is this what is the relevance of an eye gaze speech to the child
they are the key elements of this 2 because of the
ones that for the specificity because each like is will bind only 1 or several substrates so there are regarded by many including the drug companies is there this is the point of specificity and recognition and obviously you always want to meet with the drive that the most specific rather than specific on this specific you are the more prone you are to side effects central affecting other parts of the system the more specific you are the more the better you are as far as side effects and is heating right on top so 1 should be modified as
past paradigm in see ubiquitin it's maybe the stand and gaze is person puts the standard wanted to personally understand exactly and that's what the drug
companies are trying to do this that and then move rocks that are coming are exist there are exactly for the people that I put this in so where will if you go what but what is your vision about the developments in this field the field is evolving exponentially few look at it as as the numbers of papers or we on the tens of thousands of conferences and you so the only the network that didn't she she got so and and I think the future will certainly be on 1 hand in basic research the ciphering the functions of all the light is because was staying overrated capable above the light as we know all ideas in ways not just the choosing 1 general because the light is as a family name they have their own identification marker if they have a certain what they've that is identified easily by the human gene on figure both domain had mind that matter will the the light the but now the secret is when they talk to what the substance and that will be done partially by all classical biochemistry and still of great great believer in of classical mechanics and partially by more modern techniques like ice will put their interact identification of the interrupt on by over 2 hybrid systems to note on the talk we need to be in the middle so we need to understand the ubiquitous and let's let's talk 1st once this is understood and and empowerment doesn't mean it's not in In necessarily an independent or sequential and then more diseases will common more gradual because once you know the light is and we know the substrate and not and and we know the pathology that is there and then we can knock them off and see what this says is that the next step would be almost in chemistry and development of small molecules the challenge facing the biggest challenge I think that concert is not behind the history of the beginning but the concepts are understood the we understand much more on cancer and cardiovascular disease then we understand the bright and I think that the brain is still remain very enigmatic and treatment of the and an nor generated this is a plot of the whole group of them in the narrative once this list as the the list is this broadly and we in the late onset once is the major challenges that to us and there we certainly come next time so what what is your view about studying the interactions in
the bow in living cells with you possibilities of imaging using this is an important road this is a key well I
probably I will leave it there probably developers a respiratory and in classical biochemistry which also happened to love to admire the way it goes but about what we're doing in classical biochemistry really doing damage quot because we want to understand it's it's it's a game it can it can is a metaphor of having a mechanical a mechanical watch I'm a great fun of mechanical he she had selected pushing my area where is that is a challenge to mechanical so don't understand all this what is working there is only 1 way if I explain to you how it works in advance or you may partially the only way for me to understand how the waters were used to take it apart to take that the better cover and to take all the plots and to put them on a nice cloth was tables and then to put it together and and to make the clock works so this is the only way to understand but unfortunately that's not possible all the time in nature they Diablo condition that this was really sort strategy that we developed when we went into the system was that in order to understand what what info problem I have to take the components apart and then to put part of them together in this field and to understand that there is a limit this in you can put them together only if their associate appropriate but unfortunately nature of many of associations week and we cannot put things together but and once we once we take them apart so there's no way to put the to especially not in the in the condition the conditions it's a very simple experiment as every man or woman to quark and add the word connect because the the it back the sheet with you but can be difficult
impossible solid just because if you cannot take the coca ago the Fryderyk put it but you should
have so the reverse is very difficult so the only way left to us is to let to look at major exodus not to touch because we're still not having techniques in our hands to put things in that gives the and the imagined techniques are the in order to understand how things are working about complexes in multi-subunit complexes and so that the weakly interacting we break the says we we cannot go so welcome has its limits genetics that we're looking on on complementing the colleges of embedding the notion we look at the development of modern biology there were the the vitamin hunters and of the real hunters and and then hunters and now we are into system hunters and so so we are moving and the only way to the only technology that will enable us to understand how things are happening our visualization let that to stinks happen and by themselves and led the learning good microscope even very good resolution when I the when he remained some tricks to talk prospects us with some data that will be able to follow from under that's my note the but then let it be a long and but then we need very good resolution for me it would be the key to and this is where the future is 1 so while we sorted the microscope and electron microscope lost the look quite different similarly holidays and histopathology is limited and in life imaging the and climate signaling and the mother microscopy that will enable us to see sinks not static multi empower female all alteration techniques offer techniques thinks that the will to let things happen is clearly the future to understand called of that OK so I think you're pretty
much done with interviews so on bubbly maybe 1 1 last question but what would be your uh kind of a wish for a for your scientific years to come so what is the problem that you would like to solve the is a
realistic their dream and uh the and a really great and and then then there a realistic which in a dream what he and the realistic we assume all the last 2 years have been traveling all over the world interesting people so different cultures but at the end if I figure about the place that they like to be the most is the lab and the students that's amazing know still extremely excited about problems and solving problems and kind of playing chess with gold and probably continue to do it for the rest of my life but then I'm going to miss like all of us in this room ways some of us to less extent depends on their age so we're going to miss major development in science and so it's so I'm not sure that I want to see the end of outside working will of end of Council problem may become so people all the end of I don't understand the language with the reduces the understanding of how the brain works what is what intelligence what's motion was creativity what's Love what's in this uh very interesting processes that are that are a bunch of chemical reactions and once we die we diet everything goes away and we don't leave anything behind so once they could be used on the body temperature of course not everything is going so it's it's it's chemistry about chemistry on and and and is very complex chemistry and their so much of the one's also there is a the is the which green but they had since I was a child was not to leave 80 years in 1 chunk in but please say here's survive for must this is the radius of about 400 years and communities isn't about 400 years and structured along 1 thousand years and then to see how things are developing because this is really fascinating so if I make good for something is for creation of human life as 1 piece rather than as she is me it was an excellent sure when local the Russian writer the the that alludes to this and this is amended his freezing down in the eyes and then he wakes up the legislator to find the telephone and the cart and then he walks in the world and really have no clue where the initial the way deal with the control of the form and he died in the Middle Ages where horses were in the streets so the so it but I think that science is so fascinating and the future is so promising and I'm going to miss all that so 3rd so orientation almost commenting that's life OK thank you very much for this
nice interview and yeah I hope that some of the dreams at least will come true